Over on the Dixonverse.net board, an interesting discussion has cropped up involving CBG columnists and the ostensible politicization thereof. Which is remarkably hilarious since CBG editor Maggie Thompson actually bends over backwards to AVOID political content.
John Jackson Miller’s article “Blue States vs. Red States” is falsely described as a political polemic touting Blue State superiority. It is, in fact,a detailed and thoughtful analysis of how comic book sales and existing stores break down along geographic lines, and even features a lengthy sidebar interview with a retailer who is not only a huge advocate of labeling, but laments “Comics do not reflect mid-American culture.” The same poster then goes on to say that I compare the “fight” of the CBLDF in Georgia to the censorship of the Nazis, and then complains about “clueless, elitist artists.” Chuck Dixon also weighed in to complain about how politics or political views had no place in comics centering on the adventures of costumed iconic superheroes. In case anyone’s interested–and since it’s come to my attention that folks hereabouts seem to like political discussion–this is what I wrote in response to the guy complaining about clueless artists:
“And I could talk about clueless fans, but I shall do you the courtesy of assuming that you have inadvertently mischaracterized my column through deceptive memory, rather than having purposefully lied about it. Either way, the above description is incorrect.
In a 2000 word column, the word “Nazi” appeared exactly once. And it was not to compare the Georgia insanity to Nazi censorship, but rather to give proper historical frame to my quoting the Rev. Martin Niemoller, who was noted for saying, “First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came fo rthe Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
And the point of my quoting that had nothing to do with Nazis per se, but instead to underscore the argument that comics fans who don’t care about retailers being arrested for selling adult comics to adults because they themselves don’t read the comics…might be well advised to start caring before the authorities come after comics they DO care about. Which is a real concern in the Georgia case, and I invite anyone interested in finding out the truth of the case to go out and actually read the column, rather than a distillation of it so biased that the word “fight” is in quotations.
As for politics in comics, Chuck, it’s easy to make sweeping statements. But let’s say I decided to revisit the Hulk as boss of the Pantheon. A commander in chief of a military organization that goes wherever it wants and does what it wants, up to and including overthrowing foreign dictators despite the wishes of most of the world. If I do that same story now that I did ten years ago, is it a politicized commentary on Bush? Anyone reading “Fallen Angel #8” in which the heroine tortures a captive for info would see it as a commentary on Iraq torture scandals…unless they bothered to check the pub date to see that it came out two months before. What if I want to do a story about a man trying to let his wife die? Should I shy away from stories that are metaphors for steroid use, since there’s congressional investigations? Abortion rights? Capital punishment? Teenage sex? Premarital sex? Marriage? Divorce? Terrorists? Should I studiously make sure that no comic have the slightest real world ties since just about everything winds up becoming politicized these days?
That sounds rather unappealing. But that could just be me.”
PAD
• 
>>KAREN: Except, most in the military identify themselves as Republican and Conservative. From the top down. You should have heard the complaints when Carter was in office.
Granted, individual members have political opinions. The institution they belong to, meanwhile, only becomes political by acting politically. The services still by and large performed their missions under Carter, whatever the members’ views.
But people have debated the distinction forever.
Consider the Civil War. Since many of the officers who joined the Confederacy had been trained at West Point, Radicals in Congress tried to shut the military academy down, branding its defenders as soft on secession. Defenders said the academy itself was apolitical, and had in fact served its function of producing skilled officers. (A number of Union soldiers found unfortunate cause to attest to that.)
The defenders won out — in part, I think, because the case was never really made that the institution had a political agenda. The crisis in civilian authority may have split the ranks, but even caught in between competing interests, the academy remained as it was, the Union’s academy. (Of course, given where it was geographically, it would’ve been hard to do otherwise..)
Best,
John Jackson Miller
Chuck Dixon has a website?
I love the quote by Niemoller too, because it underscores the mentality of what I like to call “bad weather activistism.”
You all know what a fair-weather friend is, right? Well, a bad weather activist is someone who only gets invovled when it directly affects him, and not out of a general principle. Niemoller’s quote brilliantly illustrates this “every man for himself” viewpoint.
Glad to hear that there’s more comics coming from John Jackson Miller. I really dug his take on Iron Man.
Adam Neace,
“I’ll be honest, when I heard about Mia beng HIV-positve, I thought – ‘Oh, great, more didactic AIDS stories from Judd’, but frankly that story has been better than the main one in recent issues (in my opinion, of course)”
I agree. Though I see the HIV storyline as being the MAIN story.
“I’m truly impressed that Speedy being HIV-positive hasn’t been very preachy at all.”
Me too. It is simply a good story – that could become a great one – that simply tells the story of people living their lives and dealing with situations in character.
The StarWolf,
‘She is now the new Speedy and has said “I am not dying of AIDS, I am LIVING with HIV.’
“If this is generally known”
It’s not. As for “options villains would take, it might make an interesting story. But I doubt those who deal with dodging bullets, radiation, etc. would REALLY give a dámņ one way or the other, in regards to THEIR health.
Tim Lynch,
“Even limiting the issue to mainstream superheroes, to say politics has no place is awfully silly. Many of the very best Captain America stories have cap examining his role in the American dream vs. the American Reality – and if that’s not political, what is?”
Agreed. To me, Captain America has been one of those characters who has rarely gotten his due for this reason. A lot of writers are afraid to touch him since he’s so symbolic. If he seems to embody “old-fashioned values” he is seen as archaic and corny. If he seems to be liberal, he will be rejected by many as well.
“I agree with Roger that ‘leave politics out of it’ usually means ‘leave out political opinions i disagree with’, which is slly at best.”
Agreed. A shining example of this is the “Captain America” issue that caused Mark Waid to leave the title. He wanted to do a story that went more in depth on the origin of the Red Skull. Because, despite most of what was presented, there were REASONS men like Hitler were created and the Nazi party became ascendant. He wanted to touch on those issues and marvel agreed, then rewrote the book without his knowledge, claiming it was ‘too sympathetic to the Nazi point of view.” As a result, Waid demanded Marvel take his name off that issue’s credits, which they did, I believe.
I often wonder what that story would have been like.
>>Glad to hear that there’s more comics coming from John Jackson Miller. I really dug his take on Iron Man.
Thanks! More starting this summer, updates as I have ’em go up at http://www.farawaypress.com. Also there is behind-the-scenes stuff and trivia about what’s already out.
Best,
John Jackson Miller
RE: Waid’s last Captain America issue.
They didn’t take his name off of the cover, because I bought it based on his name, read it, enjoyed it the way I enjoyed “City on the Edge of Forever” the first time around, not knowing that it was a bowlderized version. I even went so far as to mention it to Waid when he wandered into the booth I was working at a Heroes*Con. I told him it was one of my favorite issues of the series, and couldn’t figure out why he had a pained look on his face, even as he thanked me. It wasn’t until later that I read an interview with him in which he discussed how much personal grief the editing of that particular issue had caused him, and I felt like a doof for bringing it up.
-Jason
Jason, you may want to do a google search to see if you can find the original script of that Cap issue. I’m not sure that it is actually online, but I read a hard copy years ago and it was brilliant. It certainly would have been the rock of his run and fans would still be talking about it. Too bad Marvel decided that it was not politically correct. I’m not sure that it would have received the fallout that they rationalized nixing it over…. wonder if it will ever see publicated print.
Fred
Yes, Waid was understandably upset, since Marvel used his name on the cover to sell copies and he felt it was no longer “his” story.
Karen wrote: “Except, most in the military identify themselves as Republican and Conservative. From the top down. You should have heard the complaints when Carter was in office.”
Hey, I VOTED for Carter in 1976, but the way he gutted the military during his tenure was terrible. I was in the Air Force and I remember we couldn’t fix planes because spare parts began to dry up. We had to wait months for ordered parts to come in from supply for parts that had once been routinely available. Military pay was also low, and the most experienced enlisted electronics technicians were leaving the Air Force in droves. Morale in the military (and in the U.S.) was also low because Carter was so wishy-washy. He’d talk tough about an issue, then back off or completely change his mind. Even long-time Democrats got fed up with Carter, and when he lost their support, he got creamed in the 1980 election.
Am I in bizarro- world or something?
Isn’t this the same Chuck Dixen who was working on the “American Power” book by Crossgen?
Someone should call him on that. That’s ridiculously hypocritcal.
“Isn’t this the same Chuck Dixen who was working on the “American Power” book by Crossgen?
Someone should call him on that. That’s ridiculously hypocritcal. “
Well, no, his complaint was that writers shouldn’t be using iconic superhero characters as forums for political commentary, and that this practice was ruining comics.
Curiously, when I asked him to list ten instances of such incidents within the last year–which should be easy since it’s such a prevalent problem–he didn’t respond with a single example.
PAD
Yes, it’s the same Chuck Dixon. And did you actually read his comments? He never said politics should never be in comics. And he is not for gun control, as near as I can tell. He can simply write good stories staying true to the characters, without letting his own opinions show through.
Peter David,
‘My point was that Speedy was different because, unlike Jim Wilson’s, she was not revealed to be “dying of AIDS” and then died in the same issue.’
“Yeah, except Jim was revealed to have AIDS about thirty issues earlier, in whatever issue it was (I don’t remember the number offhand) that introduced Speedfreek. Remember that one? Where Speedfreek cut him and he was bleeding, and Rick – who’d faced everything from demons to Skrulls – was afraid to help a friend because his blood was tainted?”
You know what, PAD. Kudos to you. I HAD forgotten that issue (I believe it was issue #389). Maybe the space in between issues combined with the incredible power of #420 to do so. But, yes, the Rick moment was very powerful.
They were, and still are, very important stories. But the current Speedy storyline in “Green Arrow” emphasizes that she has HIV, the virus that CAUSES AIDS, and that she does NOT have AIDS yet. That is an important distinction to make, especially when so many people – including some on this board – seem to fail to realize the distinction.
In short, HIV is not the automatic, immediate death sentence it was 15 years ago (just look at Magic Johnson). That is very important to realize, and unfortunately many still don’t.
Robbnn,
“Y’know, I think that Jim Wilson issue was one of my first Hulk reads. It’s as good now as it was then.”
Agreed.
“Speedy’s back and he’s a girl? Cool. It’s an interesting question if a superhero should lay down his/her crimefighting career if he/she has HIV, since the likelihood of bleeding on people is a tad higher when engaged in violent actions. Do they cover this angle?”
Actually, the cool part of the story is that Mia becomes Speedy AFTER she finds out she has HIV. It’s a huge part of what motivated her to strap on the bow and arrows. She feels she is more focused than ever and wants to use the rest of her life, be it 5, 10 or 50 years, to help people.
She hasn’t bled yet, though that should be interesting.
So far, it is a fine example of well-crafted storytelling.
Napoleon Park,
“So, uh, Speedy is HIV positive? Speedy’s a girl. She should tell people. Not to serve as a role model, but…well, I don’t want to trivialize this with a tasteless comment”
But you will, anyway.
“but as a superhero(ine), wouldn’t having your enemies be afraid to make you bleed be an advantage?”
I would simply like to point out that you are showing yourself to be an insenstive, uneducated cretin.
“Hey, I dont mean to take your p*l*t*c*l rally less than serious, but these are superhero comic books we’re talking about.”
Hey I don’t mean to take Y*U less than seriously, but this is you we’re talking about.
“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came fo rthe Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
To use this to say that “the Man” is eventually going to try to “come for” all kinds of comic art is just silly. I use to live in the hood and I regularly watched the police take away my neighbors. They came for the rapist, the car thief, and the drug dealer, but I never feared they were coming for me.
With any luck, Steve Miller posted with a great deal of “tongue in cheek”; otherwise, he doesn’t understand the quotation’s meaning and intent.
When ANY form of comic art can lead to the artist’s OR a retailer’s arrest without the art in question meeting the exact standards applied to obscenity and pornography, then you should be incredibly fearful that some currently acceptable form of comic art (or other artwork, for that matter) could be the next target.
By the by, who’s to say that the police wouldn’t have come for you? You may have gotten lucky, but plenty of people have had their property seized by police for the crimes that they didn’t commit. Let’s also not forget that more than a few people have been arrested simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. A few have even been convicted for crimes which led them to spend decades in jail, even on death row.
Nope, not tongue in cheek at all. Could I have been arrested? Sure, did I have reason to fear it? No, I had not committed anything remotely close to a criminal offense. We do not live in a Utopian society. There is no perfect law. There is no perfect government. There is no perfect humanly devised solution to legislating popular media, so does that mean we should have none? Every law on the books has probably snagged some poor innocent soul-it goes with the territory of man governing over man. Does it suck when it happens? Heck yeah, does it mean the law is a bad one? Nope, there is no fool safe way for laws to be executed. So in the few cases when an innocent comic book seller gets busted or a non obscene comic gets pulled from the shelves I
You want to see scary? Look at what’s happening with our freedom loving friends in Europe:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1443908,00.html
Long story short–a Belgian cartoonist writes a book that gets published in Greece and is considered “blasphemous” (evidentially something that can get you jail time) and is now facing 2 years in prison. One troubling aspect of the EU is that one may find one self at the mercy of its most repressive members.
It amazes me that more Americans will probably know about the travails of a Funky Winterbean character than the real life stories of people like Theo Van Gogh and Gerhard Haderer.