The success of “Fat Actress,” which debuted last Monday, depends entirely upon whether you like Kirstie Alley’s somewhat scene chewing acting style. In half hour doses, I do, which is why she’s perfect for sitcoms.
But what infuriataes me is that the National Eating Disorders Associations out of Seattle are bìŧçhìņg about the show in a way that questions whether they watched it at all.
At one point in the show, a supposed LA weight loss expert (played by John Travolta’s real life wife) gives the stunned Alley all manner of insane weight-loss suggestions, including eating a cigarette and binging and purging with a feather so as not to ruin her manicure. Alley reacts with incredulity at these suggestions (which you have a feeling there are women in LA who are actually doing it.) Later on she smokes a cigarette, tastes it and kind of goes “blaaah” and at another point stares at a feather, then shakes her head and puts the feather down.
But the NEDA is claiming she actually followed all the horrific advice she was given. Newsday even claimed she was shown sticking a feather down her throat to vomit when she clearly didn’t.
What next? I’m wondering if the NAACP is going to lodge a protest because a horny Alley goes on the prowl for a black lover since black men ostensibly, as the song goes, like women “with back,” prompting an annoyed black woman in a soul food restaurant to lament all these dámņëd white women prowling around for black men.
PAD
• 
There are those folks out in the world that don’t have much and so what they create is anger, controversy and slander. It makes them feel important. It gives them something and makes them feel as though they actually have a purpose.
When you think about it, it’s very similar to the Bush administration and thier friends. Like the FCC. People who make a big stink out of nothing.
Controversy created when there wasnt any to begin with.
It’s basically the inability to step outside themselves and notice that the world doesnt really revolve around them.
The New York Post (which I sometimes read on the subway — hey, it’s a quarter) had an article lambasting the series for the racial aspect and apparent stereotypes. Alas, humor is dead.
the only acceptable stereotyping humor nowadays appears to be with gays. the mores swish in your hips and the linper your wrist, the funnier you are. But heaven forbid there is a joke that “targets” some “minority” group. And it appears everyone is a minority these days. Even Middle aged middle income white guys are getting mad when someone pokes fun at them. I think everyon needs to sit down, watch Blazing Saddles, and repeat “Excuse me while i whip this out.” the world would be a better place!
From the sound of the press release, this organization read a synopsis (which is NEVER complete enough) but didn’t bother to watch the show. Which creates a ridiculous circle when they make bold statements about the show’s content, statements which are accepted as fact by people who also aren’t watching the show but find it in themselves to condemn something they aren’t watching in the first place.
Sound familiar? Anyone remember The Great Mighty Mouse Flower Snorting Incident of oh so many years ago?
What really bites is the fact that this organization is probably one that could do a lot of people some good, but they run the risk of compromising their credibility; something like this invariably leads to bad publicity when the truth gets widely established. There is a school of thought that says that any publicity, even bad publicity is good. Michael Jackson was reportedly of that school … wonder if he thinks tht now.
I remember something similar. The Rev. Donald Wildmon (the Cotton Mather of our time) went into a violent rage over NYPD BLUE before it debuted objecting to scenes of explicit sex and full frontal nudity. While some of what eventually did air would understandably raise the good rev’s hackles, exactly when did lying about a show you haven’t even watched become a legitimate form of discourse?
Oh, yeah. I forgot. America has Fox News. How silly of me to ask.
right off the bat, w/ the 1st post we have “BUSH BAD. EVIL REPUBLICANS.”
for fûçk’s sake, is this going to turn into another 360 comment blog about politics and religion again. Is this all you bášŧárdš talk about?
different topic same fûçkìņg responses.
To joe V.;
“When you think about it, it’s very similar to the Bush administration and thier friends. Like the FCC. PEOPLE WHO MAKE A BIG STINK OUT OF NOTHING. Controversy created when there wasnt any to begin with.
It’s basically the inability to step outside themselves and notice that the world doesnt really revolve around them.”
Thanks for proving my point.
what point? & how did i help you make it?
please enlighten me oh wise one
Joe V.
I have know interest Kirstie Alley or her latest show. It is, however, becoming increasingly acceptable for people to judge things before they’ve seen them. It is so easy to take one or two scenes out of context and distort their meaning. Maybe her show will actually help some people, maybe it won’t, but you’d think a group that claims to want to help people lose weight would actually watch it before weighing in (pun intended) on the content.
Oh, and Bush sucks.
I’m wondering if the NAACP is going to lodge a protest because a horny Alley goes on the prowl for a black lover since black men ostensibly, as the song goes, like women “with back,” prompting an annoyed black woman in a soul food restaurant to lament all these dámņëd white women prowling around for black men.
Yeah, but that’s true. Toni Morrison said so.
The show was hilarious. I like Alley. As far as the NAACP goes, if they decide to persue this, allow me to tell you a little story: In California, last spring, there was a spelling bee, it was hosted by a Congressman. It was rather uneventful until this little girl went up to the podium. The congressman asked her her name and though I don’t remember the name of the girl, I do remember it was African, and the little girl said it meant Princess (or maybe Beauty). The congressman says “No it doesn’t, it means stupid little girl.” The next day the NCAACP was outraged and demanded the congressman resign. This went on for 2 days until they found out the little girl was white, not black. They dropped the whole thing and even apologized to the congressman for causing him problems.
I’m Jerremy Uphoff and I approved this post.
Bush Rules
And we are officially off-topic. In a mere 11 posts no less. Impressive. PAD, is this a new record?
“The congressman says “No it doesn’t, it means stupid little girl.” The next day the NCAACP was outraged and demanded the congressman resign. This went on for 2 days until they found out the little girl was white, not black. They dropped the whole thing and even apologized to the congressman for causing him problems.”
I don’t know about demanding he resign, but if I were the child’s parent, I would sure as hëll demand he apologize to my kid for such a thoughtless remark. First of all, it’s not like the kid picked her own name, and second, that’s incredibly and gratuitously insulting.
As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people. Bottom line, Alley’s always been zaftig. But I think she’s also still got sex appeal. Kathleen pointed out that Queen Latifah’s got the same thing going. Slim Latifah ain’t, but she was sex incarnate singing “When You’re Good to Mama” in “Chicago.” It’s not simply body weight; it’s attitude and how you carry yourself.
PAD
Joe V;
The keys are right there.
But you gotta step outside yourself to see them.
Now, if you dont mind? I’m gunna go watch “Karate Kid” for the five thousandth time.
You go have yourself a nice lil sody pop.
Nuff Said.
Sounds to me like NEDA is acting as the PMRC did in the 80’s: Treating speculation as fact.
It’s something everyone does to some extent, really.
Like malvito said, “What really bites is the fact that this organization (NEDA) is probably one that could do a lot of people some good, but they run the risk of compromising their credibility;”
I agree that with humor close to death people are taking themselves WAY too seriously. It’s not all bad, though… It’s always good when those of us with a sense of humor get a new humorless target.
Peter David:
“Bottom line, Alley’s always been zaftig. But I think she’s also still got sex appeal.”
Hi Peter,
I don’t know. About a month ago I saw Star Trek II again ans she seemed rather petite to me (yes, I had to look up zaftig).
I agree that the sex appeal is there for both Alley and Latifah. It really IS all about how they ‘wear themselves.’
It’s funny. I’ve seen skinny women who everything they can to be sexy and fail miserably. But when I see a not so skinny woman who is happy with who she is… well the word “kerboinggg” pretty much sums it up. Meanwhile the least sex, IMO, are the ones with bøøb jobs, face lifts, and botox. Hey, if I want to get freaky with a science experiment gone bad I can always open my frige…
Ok, too much imagery.
PAD wrote “As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people.”
Actually, every group is okay to be stereotyped — within its own group. Lots of gay comics make fun of butch lesbians and effeminate males. I (a redhead) would be killed at my job for using “the N word” yet I hear lots of black folks (mostly male) tossing “ņìggër” back and forth among themselves like it was the word “the.” (By contrast, I am certain Mel Brooks would be boycotted and attacked if he tried to make BLAZING SADDLES today. Everyone would overlook the fact that the sheriff is the hero (and most competent person in the movie) and focus solely on a Jewish man saying “ņìggër” repeatedly in a movie.)
And yes, Kirstie Alley is a heavier woman poking her own fun at being a heavier woman. I haven’t seen the show, so I can’t make a judgment on how well or poorly it works; let us hope that others can show the same wisdom.
(BTW, there’s nothing wrong with being heavy, but heavier people should dress accordingly. I’d hate to see Camryn Manhein (sic) in a string biliki, but seeing her in interviews, so bouncy and fun, makes me want to see her out of her suit. And buxom ladies are definitely more appealing than the waif/heroin sheik look from a few years back!)
Kirstie Alley was, is, and always will be a babe.
The major focal point of the show is that as a “fat actress” there are very few roles available in the mythical land of Hollywood for her. It’s a crying shame too, because she’s still as funny and talented as she ever was. The only thing that’s changed is her size.
PAD said :As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people.”
It’s worse than that. The only group it’s still OK to discriminate against is fat people. At a TV station I used to work at, I was the regular fill-in director for the nightly news magazine program for a while. When the regular director quit, I applied for the job and was told…to my face…that I probably wouldn’t get it because of my weight, but I would still be called on to fill in when necessary.
I never really have been attracted to Kirstie Alley, even when she was more svelt. I did see the show and I did think it was funny. I would say the NAACP would have more of an issue with the show than Neda.
The show is a satire on the double standards in showbiz for Men and Women. I though it was funny and worked well.
In regards to the idea that black men like larger women as put forth by the show is a bit racist, but it was funny, and really only mark curry was into Kirstie, the guy she was eyeing in the soul food restaurant wanted nothing to do with her.
Over all anyone offended by this show is seriously lacking sense of humor.
JamesLynch:
“PAD wrote “As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people.”
Actually, every group is okay to be stereotyped — within its own group.”
Hi James,
I write “bits” for the purpose of stand-up comedy (yep, I’m gonna try it out). I use sterotypes about everyone. They are all fair game. In a routine about blacks I don’t have to use the word ņìggër to make it funny. I have a routine about gay men wherein I don’t use the word fág. I’m part of neither group. Using stereotypes about certain groups for comedy doesn’t mean that the comedian hates them.
I’ve been to alot of comedy shows and from what I can tell everyone is having a good time. I think laughter actually trancends the boundries of race, religion, politics, and sexual preferance far better than any politically correct special interst group ever could. It’s even better when we poke fun at the fear those stereotypes can generate.
That’s how I perceive “Fat Actress.” Making fun of a stereotype. Not by insulting it, but by having fun with it.
A Greene:
“I never really have been attracted to Kirstie Alley, even when she was more svelt.”
ME: (Grumbling) Svelte? Back to the dámņ dictionary.
😉
Peter,
Don’t you think it was a bit hypocritical of the NAACP to demand a resignation because they thought the child was black, but upon discovery that the child was white, they drop it and say, “Oops. Sorry about that.” They might as well say “It’s ok to insult kids if they’re white, but don’t mess with them if they’re black.”
I don’t condone the congressmans behaviour, and again, it was a year ago, but for them to not be as outraged because the kid was white, to me is horrendous.
As for fat people being discriminated against, let me share with you that I am 120 lbs overweight, and I’ve lost 40 lbs so far. But let me tell you that fat jokes don’t bother me and if anything motivate me to loose more weight. I am fat because I chose to eat unhealthy and be lazy. Although I’m correcting this, my perception on other fat people has changed. I view them, and I may be wrong, not as victims but as people who make the choice to be and stay fat. I’m at 320 right now and hope to be at 200 in a year and a half, but unlike other groups who may not be able to change their race, or sex, or height or whatever it is people get discriminated for, we the fat and overweight can CHOOSE to loose the weight.
I’m Jeremy Uphoff and I approved this post.
“Actually, every group is okay to be stereotyped — within its own group.”
But once you get outside the group, it is only “OK” to stereotype gays. Overweight people…it gets a bit iffy. gays (it seems) are fair game. It is a wide-spread negative that is invading many aspects of our culture. I mean, how often have you heard someone refer to something as “so gay”? especially when it is something they are attempting to denote in a derogative manner. That doesn’t fly with other stereotypes. nothing is “so black” (except in Sir-Mix -A-Lot songs) or “so tubby.” We would not be having this discussion if Jack on Will & Grace decided to lose weight by going on the “All Meat” diet and will asked him “How that was different from his usual lifestyle.” C’mon. It wouldn’t raise an eyebrow beyond the people who are already opposed to any and all gay characters being on television in the first place. the fact that this humor deals with a different “minority group” the hackles get raised. BTW: When did “more than 50%” (the percentage of Americans over-weight) become a minority?
I (a redhead) would be killed at my job for using “the N word” yet I hear lots of black folks (mostly male) tossing “ņìggër” back and forth among themselves like it was the word “the.”
James,
Trust me when I tell you this. It doesn’t mean nearly the same thing when it comes from a black person as it does from someone of another race.
The easiest way I can explain the effect so that you’ll understand is the difference between you calling your wife “honey” and your boss doing it.
And Mitch: Seems to me that Kirstie started packing on the pounds even while doing Cheers. If you follow from when she first appeared on the show to when the show ended. You’ll noticed that her wardrobe went from form fitting to “flowing”. Or maybe I’m mis-remembering. Oh well. she was defintely heavier by the time she teamed up with Tim Allen in For Richer For Poorer.
eclark,
at the end of her career in Cheers, wasnt she pregnant? I thought she was……hmmmm. Just wondering.
Either way you’re right; she did start to plump up after that. But I don’t mind. As many of the men folk here have stated; they like a full figure. Same here. I actually thought she was more attractive than when she was….thinner. But thats just one mans humble opinion. Variety equalling spice of life…blah, blah, blabbity blah, et. al.
Actually I don’t think anything of the story about the NAACP dropping the matter when they learned the little girl was white. (I’m going to just take the whole story at face value, I have no knowledge of the veracity or accuracy of it) The CP part of their name stands for “colored people” and I don’t think little white girls fall in that category.
It’s certainly arguable that this kind of jerky treatment doesn’t do anyone any good but they have a finite amount of time and money and need to pick their battles. I don’t think getting into a pìššìņg match over a name of African origin makes sense for them, nor would I expect them to jump to some white suburban teen’s defense if s/he were to be presecuted for his embrace of black culture.
The NAACP has made enough questionable decisions and statements over the years that criticizing them for sticking to their core mission seems silly.
Actually, on this blog there is another group it’s okay to stereotype: Bush and conservative Republicans.
Also: Clinton and liberal Democrats.
(Oh. Wait. It doesn’t count when YOU do it…..)
It was Shelley Long who was on cheers and pregnant while her character wasn’t. Remember the one when she spent the whole episode trapped in an air duct? That was so you could only see her head.
Yeah, Kirstie Alley started getting realy sexy during the last couple years of Cheers. I mean, I liked her as far back as “Khan”, but big is hot.
Years ago a friend asked me if I felt being obese had deprived me of any opportunities, socially or professionally. I replied:
“I have never been prejudiced against over my weight by anyone whose opinion I respected.”
It is funny when a group invalidates themselves by complaining about something that isn’t actually in a TV show, based on third hand misinformation.
they wind up on the pile of people no one will ever listen to or take seriously again, along with Rev. Wildmon.
“Trust me when I tell you this. It doesn’t mean nearly the same thing when it comes from a black person as it does from someone of another race”
Uh ,NO,speaking as a card carrying black guy,nobody calls me ņìggër ,period.Unfortunately some very ignorant members of my race have chosen to try spin it into a term of endearment.Sorry ,it dont fly with me at all.
Now back on topic,I agree with many folks that unfortunately many people go off on crusades with out ever viewing the material in question or in proper context.Mighty mouse “sniffing coke”,SpongeBob”gay”,the list goes on.On the other hand we do have a lot of “special interests that are “offended by everything.Blazing Saddles
LOVE IT!!Would it be done today umm NO!!Mel Brooks would be labeled a racist.The same way Quentin Tarantino and Stephen King have been labeled racist for some people by there use of the word ņìggër.Hello ,the character is saying that.
Braveheart was protested by some when Patrick mcgoohan threw his son’s male companion out a window.He didnt do it cause he was gay he did because I believe his advice cost them land in a battle.
Kirstie alley ,was never into her or Beyonce for that matter,Queen Latifah and Serena Williams however,thats something different.
As far as the white women trolling for black men
in the immortal words of Cleavon Little”Where da white women at??!!”BWAH-HA-HAHA!!!!
I remember a similar thing happening when some senator or representative got all offended because of a word in a Tom Clancy book. I think it might have been Charlie Rangold, but I may be mistaken. Clancy used the word ņìggárdlÿ.
Main Entry: nig
Peter David: (played by John Travolta’s real life wife)
Luigi Novi: Played by? I thought it was a reality show. So it
Luigi, I believe what was being gotten at was which groups are widely accepted (no pun intended) as fair game for stereotyping. You want a shorthand indicator that a TV character is unmotivated, unattractive, and maybe a little slow? Make him chubby. Not actually fat – that might turn off the twentysomethings you’re trying to get into your demographic – but just a little bit overweight.
There is actually one other group it’s okay to stereotype, and even mock openly. I’m surprised no one has pointed it out yet, given how many people here are obviously members of that group. I refer, of course, to the highly intelligent. Any character on TV, or in most movies, who is more than a little brighter than average, is depicted as a clumsy, socially unacceptable dweeb with strange, childlike obsessions, either grotesquely over- or underweight. Look, folks, not every genius has Asperger’s Syndrome, all right?
(OK, OK, I do, but most geniuses don’t…)
Ðámņìŧ, you white women BETTER be staying away from the black men. Devils, all of you!
Lament my ášš.
“I agree that the sex appeal is there for both Alley and Latifah.”
Tastes vary.
The only time I’ve seen the latter was in the TAXI remake and I was NOT impressed.
Then again, I admit my judgement may have been coloured (no pun intended) in that I had also seen the French original and didn’t care for the remake one bit. Now Tina Turner … that’s another matter. Drool … 8-)~
“Actually, on this blog there is another group it’s okay to stereotype: Bush and conservative Republicans.”
Based upon this comment and posts on the previous “Funky” thread, I’d certainly say that stereotyping conservative Republicans as astoundingly aggressive toward swiping at liberals and with a chip on their collective shoulders for the purpose of derailing subject threads would certainly not be out of line…
PAD
Peter David: As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people.
Luigi Novi: And Jews. And Southerners. And Italians. And people who live in trailer parks. And Native Americans. And comic book fans. And black people. And white people. And liberals. And conservatives. Look at the cultural landscape, Peter. Look at TV and movies. Look at any stand-up comedy routine. Stereotyping of all groups appears to be
Jonathan: Luigi, I believe what was being gotten at was which groups are widely accepted (no pun intended) as fair game for stereotyping.
Luigi Novi: Well, I
There’s a HUGE difference between a comedian using a stereotype as a punchline in a joke, and an employer using this to prevent someone from getting a job they are qualified for.
Think of how we treat people who are not that smart. When someone cuts you off in traffic, he’s a moron. Only an idiot would vote for BLANK. The dumbing down of America. Intelligence equals value as a human being. Every once in a while we equate low intelligence with innocence, such as Forrest Gump or Charly. But even Forrest hopes his son is smart and not like him. But isn’t Forrest a good person, a good father? Does his I.Q. matter?
Intelligent people do get negatively stereotyped as socially awkward and unattractive, true. But being smart isn’t a pejorative. Next time someone cuts you off, try yelling “frickin’ Rhodes scholar!” See if that works as well.
“piercings up the wazzoo”
Wow, kids will pierce anywhere these days… but how did you know?
“I (a redhead) would be killed at my job for using “the N word” yet I hear lots of black folks (mostly male) tossing “ņìggër” back and forth among themselves like it was the word “the.” “
you might be mishearing them. they might be saying “ņìggá”, which means “friend” or “person.”
“The fact that swipes at Southerners or poor white people living in trailers by Conan O
I do. His humor is far more cutting edge than Leno, and I assume the fact that he’s been tapped to replace Leno is because his show does well.
you might be mishearing them. they might be saying “ņìggá”, which means “friend” or “person.
Even so, as a white guy it would still be risque if not offensive if I (a white jewish guy) used the term “ņìggá” as you put it.
It’s just one of the things I don’t get. To me it’s like gay people refering to themselves as fágš. I don’t know of any jews who refer to each other as kìkëš, or asians refereing to themselves as japs, or chinks or whatnot.
Sure they are only words one could argue, but whether we like it or not, language is very powerful.
(and I think Conan is hilarious, I’m just never up late enough to catch his show).
“piercings up the wazzoo”
Wow, kids will pierce anywhere these days… but how did you know?
Well, the constant fidgeting gave it away…
Peter David: As for stereotyping, there’s two that are “acceptable”–gays, and fat people.
As may have been mentioned before, you can add ‘geeks’ to that list ^_^
First off, being a geek is actually a ‘lifestyle choice’, unlike being fat/gay. There are also some funny similarities between geek and gay:
1. ‘normals’ don’t like it when either ‘flaunt their lifestyle’ in public (flamboyantly gay male/uber geek talking about the latest episode of ‘Enterprise’)
2. ‘Normals’ find their sexual interest strange (the same sex/women in ‘Wonder Woman’ costumes 🙂
3. ‘Normals’ don’t support marriage between the same type (okay, maybe that doesn’t apply to geeks…yet).
Maybe geeks need to get a Political Action Committee together, with a phrase like “We’re here, we’re weird, get used to it!”.
Even so, as a white guy it would still be risque if not offensive if I (a white jewish guy) used the term “ņìggá” as you put it.
Rest assured that if you, (a white jewish guy), called me ( a black guy), “ņìggá”, “ņìggër”, “coon”, or “spade”, I would seriously thrash you within an inch of your life. Assuming someone peels me off of you in time. Now, I’m not stupid. You must , of course, be either flabby and out of shape, or thin as a rail and have no way to protect yourself . Otherwise, I’ll just pretend I didn’t hear you and be really , really angry.
3. ‘Normals’ don’t support marriage between the same type (okay, maybe that doesn’t apply to geeks…yet).
Maybe geeks need to get a Political Action Committee together, with a phrase like “We’re here, we’re weird, get used to it!”.
I’m sorry. Did you mean weird or wired?
Wasn’t there some school in the midwest that had an intramural team called the “fighting whities”? I remember there being lots of news reports and merchandising around them. Now that’s funny! Stick it to the man! (says the middle aged, middle income white guy!)
Wasn’t there some school in the midwest that had an intramural team called the “fighting whities”? I remember there being lots of news reports and merchandising around them. Now that’s funny! Stick it to the man! (says the middle aged, middle income white guy!)
Think it was a Native American team that did that, trying to make white feel what it was like on their end. Don’t think it was that successful….
“Now, I’m not stupid. You must , of course, be either flabby and out of shape, or thin as a rail and have no way to protect yourself . Otherwise, I’ll just pretend I didn’t hear you and be really , really angry.”
That reminds me of my favorite Woody Allen line. In LOVE AND DEATH he recieves an insult from a Russian nobleman.
Woody– “If a man said that I’d slap his face.”
Nobleman- “I AM a man.”
Woody- “Well, I meant a much smaller man.”