What, you wanted to know what I was thinking, didn’t you?
The twist on Bete Noir is a great concept. Not at all what I expected. I wonder, was that particular idea the genesis (no pun intended) of this series?
I was grateful for the ending scene. Guess this ends the Linda/Lee speculation once and for all (or does it)?
Juris’s execution of Boxer was really gripping, especially the tactical use of profanity.
I heartily await issue 19.
As much as I love this comic and reading it every month (and I know issue 19 & 20 might be a sketchy finale) — this felt complete to me. It felt like a hellova way to end it. I’m not saying I want the series cancelled, hëllš no, but I thought this felt like a good note to go out on.
Loved the way to get the audience to root for Boxer in his flashbacks. The single use of the f-word is a good way to show how you can use profanity once in awhile and have it have some impact. Bunch of great moments with Lee in the hospital bed, and anything having to do with Boxer and Juris.
I only read the issue once, but I still don’t quite get what Bette Noir is. It is a place “where the dámņëd call home?” Or was everything not explained? Spoon feed me, dangit!
Dang!!!
(but I thought the Bible said Enoch walked with God! Oh, wait – This is that other, earlier Enoch that appears in the book of Genesis. COOL!)
Anyway, loved it. Loved the ending – the last panel was killer.
I hope this series has a long life. I like getting hints about Lee a bit at a time, but there better be a few more solid hints by issue #50!!! (see, I’m being optimistic).
The scene with Juris and Boxer, gawd, that was a thing of beauty. The whole thing though just makes me want to know where everything stands now, where does Juris stand now. Lee’s existence seems so sad now though. My only problem is that if my kid was an angel I wouldn’t give him to the church to raise, but I guess that’s probably not something I have to worry about.
I started buying this book on Mr. David’s name alone. I kept buying because I saw him going in a very different direction than anything else he’d written.
This issue justified my faith.
All the characters were solid. Their reactions were entirely human and appropriate. And finally, finally, Lee hit me as a full human being and not just a character.
I don’t understand the reference to Enoch, but will look it up. It doesn’t matter. (I thought Enoch was one of the Cartwright family.) That was the only odd note in the book for me.
Mr. David, you can look Bendis in the eye now. Heck, you can even point out his grammatical and plot logic mistakes.
Just promise me one thing. The “surprise guest star” referred to in the blurb at the back of the book…it isn’t Brother Power the Geek, is it?
Take the title and run. Go to Icon, Dark Horse, Devil Due, Image, Dreamwave; just somewhere. I think I speak for every fan of this book when I say I hate thinking every issue might be the last one.
As for the issue itself; I agree that this felt like a real ending. Not complete because there is still so much more territory to explore, but dámņ it was a good ending.
DC really has to put the entire series in trade format. Hëll, Marvel did it for Captain Marvel.
Great, great issue. I agree with the others who say that it felt like a great ending, and yet don’t want to series to end. I eagerly await Lee’s return, and hope to see where the series goes from here.
Speaking of endings, how much of this thing do you have sketched out, in your head or otherwise? Are there more things that you are building towards, or are you taking it an arc at a time, given the book’s generally tenuous status?
Oh man!
What a beautiful, beautiful issue. I can understand what Lee says about Bette Noir. I think the book itself it much like that city. It sort of gets in your soul and won’t let go.
I just CARE so dámņëd much about these characters. I thought Boxer ended up such a tragic character in the end. I have a lot of conflicting emotions about him, which is a great thing to experience.
The scene between Juris and Boxer… was so beautifully played out. The art team really deserves a lot of credit. I have to say, the art was the least impressive aspect to me in the beginning. Now I don’t want to imagine Fallen Angel without them. I don’t think I’ve seen this level of storytelling from artists in a long time. That look in Juris’ face at the end of this scene!
Amazing.
March seems very far away.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
WOW.
I’m sure at some point, words will come, but I’m still stuck on “Wow.” Give me a while to recover.
Glad I did NOT . . . wait for trade.
— Ken from Chicago
P.S. Now does someone have a tiny bow and arrow?
The Enochian line parallels the line of begats that goes through Seth (i.e. names almost identical except for one letter change), leading some to suspect that someone took too similar stories and merged them together.
Genesis 4:17 for reference.
Wel, I was not let dwn by the end chapter of Hurlyburly. What a spectacular story.
Juris ends up being a direct descendant of Cain, stuck to be the head of the city of Enoch until a son is born to take his place. My question is, as Jude has survived, can’t Juris leave the city now? Hasn’t the ‘curse’ been broken despite his lack of knowledge?
And what exactly did Mr. Goode mean when he told Juris that Lee was ‘one of his rather than one of ours’?
In some ways it was sad to see Boxer go. We have come to learn a lot about him these last issues. The scene with Juris was chilling and effective.
As for Lee, we saw the old Lee in full force when she told Boxer that she was going to kill Mariah. And yet, by the issue’s end, we see her smiling outside of Becky’s room. And we meet little angel Jude. Perhaps there has been some growth in Lee over these 18 issues; maybe she doesn’t hate herself so much.
As for my guesses?
1) Juris dead – wrong
2) Juris planted bomb – wrong
3) Slate tipped off Lee -right
4) Bete Noire is a purgatory like place – wrong
5) Lee sprouts flame wings – wrong
Thanks again for a great 18 issues PAD.
WOW. Ok, growing up Mormon, I was taught about a City of Enoch that was so good, it was taken up into Heaven, and since it’s been a while since I’ve gone into that past of my life, I couldn’t remember if Enoch was a Bible thing or a Mormon thing. I thought, “Oh wow. In this story, the city wasn’t really good, it was BAD. Interesting.” And then I did a little more research and found that there was a City of Enoch in the Bible that came from the son of Cain. . .that made a little more sense. 🙂
But yeah, I’m still wondering how this issue supposedly settled on who the real identity of the Fallen Angel was, but that’s ok. I’m still hoping Lee is Linda. 🙂 I’m really looking forward to more issues in March,(is it?) and hope the series continues beyond that. I can’t help thinking that the Sachs and Violenz story is going to be a type of “filler” story, and I really hope that isn’t the case.
Should I mention spoilers?
The revelation that all the town are descendants of Cain (I assume it’s Cain, can’t think of anyone else who fits the bill) ties in with a couple of hints given by PAD back on the feedback for issue 14 (and I remember dancing around a Cain prediction back then).
To quote the man himself:
“And Benny’s been there a long time. A real. Long. Time. Longer than Dolf. Longer than Juris. Longer than just about anybody (which is my way of saying that, no, those people who thought he was actually Benito Mussolini were wrong.) He’s one of the first citizens and, as such, has very special status.
The Fallen Angel doesn’t kill him for two reasons: 1) She understands that he serves a function, and 2) She couldn’t kill him if she tried. She knows this because she did try once…in a story that, who knows, maybe I’ll get to tell.”
Which almost had me predicting that Benny was Cain (aside from the eating people thing, which I don’t remember from the Bible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he picked up a few bad habits along the way).
So does this mean Benny’s everyone’s grandpa? Or am I off on the wrong track altogether?
This was a great issue, and it was done so well that if the series was cancelled this would be a good place to do it. Fortunately, it isn’t cancelled, at least for two more issues. I’m going to use the time until the next issue to re-read the whole run to see if I can pick up things I missed the first time.
Has there been any more discussion with DC about starting over with a new #1 issue (with a longer committment) instead of brining out #19 three months late?
–your pal, Hoy
Peter,
Since issue #1, I have thought that “Fallen Angel” was among the best things you have written. After reading issue 18, I would say that it is THE best thing you have ever written.
Greg
Absolutely loved it. This really gives the series a feeling of completeness. DON’T CANCEL IT! (But it was a heck of an ending.) This issue addresses most of the confusions and complaints that I’ve had over the life of the series–this series really works better in trades. (I didn’t wait, but still…)
Liked it. A whole bunch. Need to reread it to get more specific comments in mind, but very strong.
I’d agree with those who said that IF the book ended here, it’s on a great note — this felt like a valid ending point. Of course, we know we’re getting at least two more issues, and here’s hoping that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaking of which … my store gets books on Wednesdays, and usually Fallen Angel has a few copies on the rack as late as Thursday.
Yesterday it was sold out by the time I got there at 6. (My pull copy, of course, was intact. 🙂
A few weeks ago one of the guys there said that they’d seen sales jump up a bit since the trade came out, so I doubt they’ve been reducing orders. As such, to see the book selling out now strikes me as a Good Thing. Figured you’d want to know.
TWL
“So does this mean Benny’s everyone’s grandpa? Or am I off on the wrong track altogether?”
Well, the big revelation about Benny so far is that he swallows people like a snake.
Or should I say serpent?
I’m with the “Benny is the Serpent” crowd. Well, it’s maybe not a CROWD yet, but hey.
On first glance, the “she’s not one of ours, she’s one of yours” line just seems to be a matter of saying that if Lee has any loyalties or attachments in Bete Noire, they’re to Juris. OTOH, keep in mind that Cain was under God’s protection, so perhaps his lineage also gets protected? Lee, without knowing it herself, was assigned to watch over Juris. (Side note: wonder how the children of Lamech made it through the Flood? This Cainite descendant was said to have fathered the ancestors of all metalworkers by one wife, and of all musicians by another. And once he shot a man just to see him die.)
And presumably Juris doesn’t get to be free until his heir is ready to take over. Bete Noire does not go through periods of being run by a baby, even if it’s L’enfant Terrible.
So, who’s the real Fallen Angel here? Is it Lee? Juris? The Heirarchy?
And does this mean that Juris and Lee’s relationship was the result of Juris’ manipulation? Did he have true feelings for her, or did he manipulate her for only his own ends?
Looking forward to 19 and 20. Yesterday was the first day I’ve run to the shop to make sure I got my copy. Being the end of an arc and all, was worried that it’d get snatched up. I think the shop I go to may be ordering one or two additional copies, but usually when I get in there on Thursday or Friday, I’m grabbing the last issue.
I liked the issue. It provided a satisfactory conclusion to this 18-part story, but there remain, of course, unanswered questions.
For example, the “small punishment” by the Hierarchy: Is that yet to come, or was Juris’ “punishment” the belief that Lee had miscarried, something the Hierarchy was aware had _not_ happened?
Time will tell, I suppose.
Question the second, raised by Iain Gibson: Who is Benny the Snake? Iain suggests Benny was Cain himself. But it occured to me, maybe Benny is _the_ snake. The serpent from the garden. That doesn’t explain why he’s in Enoch/Bete Noire, and in human form; but I suppose it’s just as possible as Cain himself still being there, with snake-like attributes. There’s a lot in the Bible that’s just mentioned in passing, and there doesn’t seem to be much about Cain after he built the city of Enoch.
Nor, for that matter, is there much about the snake after he crawled out of the garden. So what happened to them next is open to speculation.
Same thing with the city of Enoch. According to my (admittedly brief) research, it’s not mentioned again after the Bible writers state that Cain built it. So, PAD has plenty of room to play with in terms of the city’s history, physical layout, political structure, and so on.
Question the third: What happens if a magistrate produces a female heir, and never has a male child? Would that mean his tenure would be endless? I get the impression that Juris (and previous magistrates) are immortal, at least so long as they hold that position. And you know, sooner or later, there’s going to be a magistrate with nothing but female children.
Real life case in point. I have five cousins who are siblings (one male, four female). Only two of them have male children. Similarly, my godparents have five daughters and no sons.
On the other hand, my godparents do have two grandsons. Would a magistrate in a similar situation be succeeded by his grandson, since he didn’t have a son? Or does some mystical condition assure that the magistrate has at least one male child?
Which, of course, leads to the last question: Will Juris’ and Lee’s child eventually be drawn to Bete Noire to assume the role of magistrate? Again, I get the impression the various magistrates don’t have any choice in being the magistrate.
In a way, it kinda sorta reminds me of an aspect of the Brother Blood lineage in Wolfman and Perez’s classic “New Teen Titans” series. Not unlike The Phantom, Brother Blood was believed by some to be immortal, when it was actually a father-to-son tradition (except that the son killed the father in the father’s 100th year, and that the various Brother Bloods were evil). In one story (an annual, if I recall correctly), we learn that the present-day Brother Blood had, as a youth, attempted to escape his destiny and go out into the world. Circumstances forced him back home, however, in his father’s 100th year; and despite his earlier declarations that he would not carry on the family tradition, he ended up doing just that.
Rick
Other comics sputter and die. This one started out solid as a rock, and improves issue by issue.
I’m having a blast.
Well done, sir! Keep it up!
I disagree that this would be a good ending to the series. Still too many questions unanswered, although we get a lot here. I don’t think the series should start with a new number 1, either. DC just needs to promote it better. I refuse to believe people won’t pick up a series at issue 19 (or any number, for that matter) because they won’t be getting in on the ground floor. It would be very nice if this title could get more promotion. Maybe with the Hulk coming out, more people will be interested in your other work. Excellent issue, by the way.
Where the heck is Bete Noire? There’s a palm tree outside the hospital. I always thought of it as being someplace cooler.
I’m sure this has been answered previously, but why isn’t this a Vertigo book? DC would probably market it better if it were. Was it a specific request on your part?
Thanks for keeping up the brilliant work.
Greg
Greg –
Vertigo didn’t want it. Their loss.
Re: Fallen Angel #18.
Wow. A really great issue.
————–Spoillers————————
I almost felt sorry for Boxer at the end. It was a really nice twist to have Lee not kill him (yeah, she threaten to Mariah instead, but still) and then to turn around and have Juris just blow him away. Totally caught me off guard.
By the way, I don’t think that Juris was using Lee all this time just to produce an heir. It’s just that when the opportunity presented itself he figured why waste it.
I sorta have a love/hate thing going with the last five pages. It’s not that it wasn’t a great way to wrap everything up, it’s just if DC hadn’t been threatening to pull the plug I would have much rather have seen this story line play itself out naturally. Something along the lines of PAD dropping little clues over the next few issues and then maybe for #25 he reveals that Lee still has the baby, and then when she started showing we could have all gone on the road trip with her.
Ah well, you can’t have everything. And on the silver lining side of things, with all the major story lines wrapprd up the idea of Re-numbering #19 to #1, Vol. 2 is starting to look better.
PS. PAD, have you shopped Fallen Angel around to any TV sudios? I have to beleive there is a market for this out there even if it’s just a little niche market like the SciFi channel or something.
-=-=-Russ
Fantastic story this month Peter.
I loved all of the plot twists, I won’t give anything away but I never did see the Juris plot twist coming. Nothing is as it seems in Bette Noire.
Keep them coming.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Impressive. Yet again. Only one copy left in my store, and I got there 1/2 after opening… I’ll take that a good sign. It was a great resolution after #17, and even after all the anticipation and discussion, I wasn’t disappointed in the least.
Some thoughts: there’s the frequent use of the chess board to show the status of the “game”, and here you can see that a black pawn is in position to take a white rook… can’t make out the position of the knight quite, given the perspective of the drawing.
Juris seems to play black, so one of his pawns is about to reach the end of the board (and become a queen?), and take the castle. This, at the same time Mr. Goode is discussing punishment, and immediately before Slate & his henchman have their chat.
Also thinking that family trees are heirarchies; is Mr. Goode a previous Magistrate? And Mr. Kind his brother? Father? I seem to remember that descendents of Cain were the ones who lived to be 900+ years old.
Random observation: for folks interested in the “is she L-?” question, look in issue #17, page 2, very first panel. Shows Boxer sitting in Lee’s closet. Look carefully at the items on the floor…
Last, I really like the artwork. The art team captures a lot of subtlety in the facial expressions and body language that convey a lot. Such as near the end, when Lee’s looking into the fire at the convent; that’s a very well-done rendition.
I liked it (and my wife would like to point out that she liked it a lot too).
Im not up on the bible so I figured Enouch was important but wasn’t sure how.
Couple of things I noticed Goodes coat is the same as the one Linda wore into town it could be nothing or a connection is there some bible quote involving angels and the words good and kind?
Also the Rook it’s like the carpet from a couple of issues ago it’s a clue but to what?
This is the best single issue of any comic I have read in a very long time.
I do wonder if this book has been altered or if this is how it would have appeared if this had of been the final issue.
And Linda is Lee for my money.
“Well, the big revelation about Benny so far is that he swallows people like a snake.
Or should I say serpent?”
My counter to this one (and I have no idea how faithful PAD would feel he needed to be to the source material) is that (1) the serpent was made to crawl on his belly (which Benny clearly isn’t doing) and (2) the sons of Eve (I think, it’s been years since I read the Garden of Eden story) were supposed to be crushing him underfoot – which it would imply isn’t happening if Benny is untouchable.
My other thought was that he was Jonah’s whale.
“Random observation: for folks interested in the “is she L-?” question, look in issue #17, page 2, very first panel. Shows Boxer sitting in Lee’s closet. Look carefully at the items on the floor…”
Okay, it’s a bit dark, but there appear to be 3 things there…going right to left, there’s what seems to be an open box, a pair of white lace-up boots (almost look like boxing shoes) and a pair of what could possibly be familiar-looking red boots?
On a related note…after Supergirl #50, did we ever see Linda’s back? Did she have the “wing removal” scars?
For a change of pace, I see I got more right than wrong.
Spoilers here, for those who haven’t read it yet.
Spoilers |
|
|
V
Boxer DID regret his actions, but good.
The baby DID live.
B
Regarding Benny, how better to punish someone than to make everyone want to kill them, but make them immortal? Benny just keeps getting stomped on.
—Dave
I thought this was an excellent issue.
So did the Fourth Rail guys.
Randy Lander gave it the best of the week with a 10/10
Really enjoyed this, even though I’m not familiar with Enoch.
Now we begin the 3 month wait for #19…
Can I say HOLY SH*T?!!! If this comic doesn’t get an award, there is no justice. I am off to the comic shop to rail at the regs until they all read this. Hey, just read a day or so back that you will be at Necronomicon ’05 just down the street (2.5 miles from my house), YESSSSSSSSS!!!
I was reading last months Back Issue magazine this morning, and one of the features is about the Brave and the Bold. One of the panels shown (from #98 I think) had Batman with his godson and they were talking about Enoch. I don’t think I had heard of Enoch before Wednesday.
Peter,
This was one hëll of an issue.
I posted some time ago that I was dropping Fallen Angel, so I think it’s only fair that I come back and post that I’ve been thoroughly sucked back in. The “Hurly Burly” storyline has been just breathtakingly amazing, and this comic is now more than fulfilling its tremendous original promise. Well done!
The Book of Enoch:
Interesting thing, whilst looking up info on what exactly the revelation was in Fallen Angel (being a good deal less familiar with the Bible then I used to be)
Anyway, there is a Book of Enoch, now considered apocryphal (secret, banned) to the Christian church when the Council of Laodicea threw it out.
“The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians – precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels.” http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm
The text of the books is there as well (links on the side.) Basically, it tells of the angels of heaven who came to lust after humans and defiles themselves with them. The progeny of this union were the giants, who proceeded to make waste of the earth.
Not sure if this ties in with Fallen Angel or not (though it seems a large coincidence) but I thought it was some cool info to pass on.
Peter. I’m a long time lurker, first time poster. Great issue. Poingiant. I hadn’t even figured the Cain angle. I haven’t read all the posts here so I’m not sure where I fall with the majority but I hate to see boxer go… assuming he’s gone. And yeah I thought Benny was/is The Serpent too. Here’s hoping you get to continue enough issues to settle the question. I really believe this is your best work as you’ve said.
Back to lurking…
Fantastic. Shocking. Moving. Emotional. Bum kicking. My favorite issue, and I’ve loved each one thus far. Kudos Peter, for a job wonderfully done (thus far!).
Cannot wait to find out what happens next…
Fantastic issue, as you well know.
But… are we ever going to hear the backstory about Lee’s first child?
A funny thing in doing random google searches on Enoch was finding a tag called “Did Fallen Angels censor the Bible?” as it discussed fallen angels inflitrating church workings to remove certain activities from church texts-like the Book of Enoch.
But I digress.
‘Fallen Angel’ has only gotten better by being a continually building story where every past event has purpose and meaning to the now.
I figured Juris would kill Boxer; but the fact that Juris’ son is alive makes Boxer’s murder all that much more terrible a deed by Juris, as well as sympathetic in a manner.
It’s funny how powerful and bizarre the people of Bete Noire are, yet the power of an unborn babe makes people do all kinds differently.
Very human. Very emotional. Very good.
The wait will be too long until #19.
It was great.
I just read the last 30 issues of Supergirl, and I love to go with the theory that Lee is Linda (taking her town’s name as her own). But even if it isn’t, this book is the follow-up that book in feel. Great stuff.
And I smell a huge huge inspiration from the Prisoner here. In all the right ways.
I hope we get more then 2 more issues!
The idea of ‘worthiness’ seems to sort of float through this story.
I did appreciate Boxer being cast in the role of Abel and Juris recommitting the sin that got him stuck there in the first place thereby showing that he wasn’t ‘worthy’ to leave. (Bette Noir is sort of like the anti-garden of eden then I guess. You get tossed out of the Garden. You have to stay in Bette Noir)
Mike,
Juris is not Cain. He’s a decendent of Cain’s. Still, you can’t miss the symbolism of his committing what is basically the same crime as his ancestor (number of removed generations is unknown). Oh, yes. It seems that Juris is exactly where he belongs.
David,
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that Juris was Cain. What I meant was: Juris is cursed because of Cain’s actions (in theory) through no direct fault of his own. But in committing the same crime (sin) as Cain he shows that he isn’t worthy to leave Bette Noir.
He recommits the sin that got him stuck there in the first place.
• 
I really should eat les Taco Bell.
What, you wanted to know what I was thinking, didn’t you?
The twist on Bete Noir is a great concept. Not at all what I expected. I wonder, was that particular idea the genesis (no pun intended) of this series?
I was grateful for the ending scene. Guess this ends the Linda/Lee speculation once and for all (or does it)?
Juris’s execution of Boxer was really gripping, especially the tactical use of profanity.
I heartily await issue 19.
As much as I love this comic and reading it every month (and I know issue 19 & 20 might be a sketchy finale) — this felt complete to me. It felt like a hellova way to end it. I’m not saying I want the series cancelled, hëllš no, but I thought this felt like a good note to go out on.
Loved the way to get the audience to root for Boxer in his flashbacks. The single use of the f-word is a good way to show how you can use profanity once in awhile and have it have some impact. Bunch of great moments with Lee in the hospital bed, and anything having to do with Boxer and Juris.
I only read the issue once, but I still don’t quite get what Bette Noir is. It is a place “where the dámņëd call home?” Or was everything not explained? Spoon feed me, dangit!
Dang!!!
(but I thought the Bible said Enoch walked with God! Oh, wait – This is that other, earlier Enoch that appears in the book of Genesis. COOL!)
Anyway, loved it. Loved the ending – the last panel was killer.
I hope this series has a long life. I like getting hints about Lee a bit at a time, but there better be a few more solid hints by issue #50!!! (see, I’m being optimistic).
The scene with Juris and Boxer, gawd, that was a thing of beauty. The whole thing though just makes me want to know where everything stands now, where does Juris stand now. Lee’s existence seems so sad now though. My only problem is that if my kid was an angel I wouldn’t give him to the church to raise, but I guess that’s probably not something I have to worry about.
I started buying this book on Mr. David’s name alone. I kept buying because I saw him going in a very different direction than anything else he’d written.
This issue justified my faith.
All the characters were solid. Their reactions were entirely human and appropriate. And finally, finally, Lee hit me as a full human being and not just a character.
I don’t understand the reference to Enoch, but will look it up. It doesn’t matter. (I thought Enoch was one of the Cartwright family.) That was the only odd note in the book for me.
Mr. David, you can look Bendis in the eye now. Heck, you can even point out his grammatical and plot logic mistakes.
Just promise me one thing. The “surprise guest star” referred to in the blurb at the back of the book…it isn’t Brother Power the Geek, is it?
Take the title and run. Go to Icon, Dark Horse, Devil Due, Image, Dreamwave; just somewhere. I think I speak for every fan of this book when I say I hate thinking every issue might be the last one.
As for the issue itself; I agree that this felt like a real ending. Not complete because there is still so much more territory to explore, but dámņ it was a good ending.
DC really has to put the entire series in trade format. Hëll, Marvel did it for Captain Marvel.
Great, great issue. I agree with the others who say that it felt like a great ending, and yet don’t want to series to end. I eagerly await Lee’s return, and hope to see where the series goes from here.
Speaking of endings, how much of this thing do you have sketched out, in your head or otherwise? Are there more things that you are building towards, or are you taking it an arc at a time, given the book’s generally tenuous status?
Oh man!
What a beautiful, beautiful issue. I can understand what Lee says about Bette Noir. I think the book itself it much like that city. It sort of gets in your soul and won’t let go.
I just CARE so dámņëd much about these characters. I thought Boxer ended up such a tragic character in the end. I have a lot of conflicting emotions about him, which is a great thing to experience.
The scene between Juris and Boxer… was so beautifully played out. The art team really deserves a lot of credit. I have to say, the art was the least impressive aspect to me in the beginning. Now I don’t want to imagine Fallen Angel without them. I don’t think I’ve seen this level of storytelling from artists in a long time. That look in Juris’ face at the end of this scene!
Amazing.
March seems very far away.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
WOW.
I’m sure at some point, words will come, but I’m still stuck on “Wow.” Give me a while to recover.
Glad I did NOT . . . wait for trade.
— Ken from Chicago
P.S. Now does someone have a tiny bow and arrow?
The Enochian line parallels the line of begats that goes through Seth (i.e. names almost identical except for one letter change), leading some to suspect that someone took too similar stories and merged them together.
Genesis 4:17 for reference.
Wel, I was not let dwn by the end chapter of Hurlyburly. What a spectacular story.
Juris ends up being a direct descendant of Cain, stuck to be the head of the city of Enoch until a son is born to take his place. My question is, as Jude has survived, can’t Juris leave the city now? Hasn’t the ‘curse’ been broken despite his lack of knowledge?
And what exactly did Mr. Goode mean when he told Juris that Lee was ‘one of his rather than one of ours’?
In some ways it was sad to see Boxer go. We have come to learn a lot about him these last issues. The scene with Juris was chilling and effective.
As for Lee, we saw the old Lee in full force when she told Boxer that she was going to kill Mariah. And yet, by the issue’s end, we see her smiling outside of Becky’s room. And we meet little angel Jude. Perhaps there has been some growth in Lee over these 18 issues; maybe she doesn’t hate herself so much.
As for my guesses?
1) Juris dead – wrong
2) Juris planted bomb – wrong
3) Slate tipped off Lee -right
4) Bete Noire is a purgatory like place – wrong
5) Lee sprouts flame wings – wrong
Thanks again for a great 18 issues PAD.
WOW. Ok, growing up Mormon, I was taught about a City of Enoch that was so good, it was taken up into Heaven, and since it’s been a while since I’ve gone into that past of my life, I couldn’t remember if Enoch was a Bible thing or a Mormon thing. I thought, “Oh wow. In this story, the city wasn’t really good, it was BAD. Interesting.” And then I did a little more research and found that there was a City of Enoch in the Bible that came from the son of Cain. . .that made a little more sense. 🙂
But yeah, I’m still wondering how this issue supposedly settled on who the real identity of the Fallen Angel was, but that’s ok. I’m still hoping Lee is Linda. 🙂 I’m really looking forward to more issues in March,(is it?) and hope the series continues beyond that. I can’t help thinking that the Sachs and Violenz story is going to be a type of “filler” story, and I really hope that isn’t the case.
Should I mention spoilers?
The revelation that all the town are descendants of Cain (I assume it’s Cain, can’t think of anyone else who fits the bill) ties in with a couple of hints given by PAD back on the feedback for issue 14 (and I remember dancing around a Cain prediction back then).
To quote the man himself:
“And Benny’s been there a long time. A real. Long. Time. Longer than Dolf. Longer than Juris. Longer than just about anybody (which is my way of saying that, no, those people who thought he was actually Benito Mussolini were wrong.) He’s one of the first citizens and, as such, has very special status.
The Fallen Angel doesn’t kill him for two reasons: 1) She understands that he serves a function, and 2) She couldn’t kill him if she tried. She knows this because she did try once…in a story that, who knows, maybe I’ll get to tell.”
Which almost had me predicting that Benny was Cain (aside from the eating people thing, which I don’t remember from the Bible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he picked up a few bad habits along the way).
So does this mean Benny’s everyone’s grandpa? Or am I off on the wrong track altogether?
This was a great issue, and it was done so well that if the series was cancelled this would be a good place to do it. Fortunately, it isn’t cancelled, at least for two more issues. I’m going to use the time until the next issue to re-read the whole run to see if I can pick up things I missed the first time.
Has there been any more discussion with DC about starting over with a new #1 issue (with a longer committment) instead of brining out #19 three months late?
–your pal, Hoy
Peter,
Since issue #1, I have thought that “Fallen Angel” was among the best things you have written. After reading issue 18, I would say that it is THE best thing you have ever written.
Greg
Absolutely loved it. This really gives the series a feeling of completeness. DON’T CANCEL IT! (But it was a heck of an ending.) This issue addresses most of the confusions and complaints that I’ve had over the life of the series–this series really works better in trades. (I didn’t wait, but still…)
Eric
Haven’t read issue yet, so haven’t read comments yet, but… L’Chaim!
Liked it. A whole bunch. Need to reread it to get more specific comments in mind, but very strong.
I’d agree with those who said that IF the book ended here, it’s on a great note — this felt like a valid ending point. Of course, we know we’re getting at least two more issues, and here’s hoping that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaking of which … my store gets books on Wednesdays, and usually Fallen Angel has a few copies on the rack as late as Thursday.
Yesterday it was sold out by the time I got there at 6. (My pull copy, of course, was intact. 🙂
A few weeks ago one of the guys there said that they’d seen sales jump up a bit since the trade came out, so I doubt they’ve been reducing orders. As such, to see the book selling out now strikes me as a Good Thing. Figured you’d want to know.
TWL
“So does this mean Benny’s everyone’s grandpa? Or am I off on the wrong track altogether?”
Well, the big revelation about Benny so far is that he swallows people like a snake.
Or should I say serpent?
I’m with the “Benny is the Serpent” crowd. Well, it’s maybe not a CROWD yet, but hey.
On first glance, the “she’s not one of ours, she’s one of yours” line just seems to be a matter of saying that if Lee has any loyalties or attachments in Bete Noire, they’re to Juris. OTOH, keep in mind that Cain was under God’s protection, so perhaps his lineage also gets protected? Lee, without knowing it herself, was assigned to watch over Juris. (Side note: wonder how the children of Lamech made it through the Flood? This Cainite descendant was said to have fathered the ancestors of all metalworkers by one wife, and of all musicians by another. And once he shot a man just to see him die.)
And presumably Juris doesn’t get to be free until his heir is ready to take over. Bete Noire does not go through periods of being run by a baby, even if it’s L’enfant Terrible.
So, who’s the real Fallen Angel here? Is it Lee? Juris? The Heirarchy?
And does this mean that Juris and Lee’s relationship was the result of Juris’ manipulation? Did he have true feelings for her, or did he manipulate her for only his own ends?
Looking forward to 19 and 20. Yesterday was the first day I’ve run to the shop to make sure I got my copy. Being the end of an arc and all, was worried that it’d get snatched up. I think the shop I go to may be ordering one or two additional copies, but usually when I get in there on Thursday or Friday, I’m grabbing the last issue.
I liked the issue. It provided a satisfactory conclusion to this 18-part story, but there remain, of course, unanswered questions.
For example, the “small punishment” by the Hierarchy: Is that yet to come, or was Juris’ “punishment” the belief that Lee had miscarried, something the Hierarchy was aware had _not_ happened?
Time will tell, I suppose.
Question the second, raised by Iain Gibson: Who is Benny the Snake? Iain suggests Benny was Cain himself. But it occured to me, maybe Benny is _the_ snake. The serpent from the garden. That doesn’t explain why he’s in Enoch/Bete Noire, and in human form; but I suppose it’s just as possible as Cain himself still being there, with snake-like attributes. There’s a lot in the Bible that’s just mentioned in passing, and there doesn’t seem to be much about Cain after he built the city of Enoch.
Nor, for that matter, is there much about the snake after he crawled out of the garden. So what happened to them next is open to speculation.
Same thing with the city of Enoch. According to my (admittedly brief) research, it’s not mentioned again after the Bible writers state that Cain built it. So, PAD has plenty of room to play with in terms of the city’s history, physical layout, political structure, and so on.
Question the third: What happens if a magistrate produces a female heir, and never has a male child? Would that mean his tenure would be endless? I get the impression that Juris (and previous magistrates) are immortal, at least so long as they hold that position. And you know, sooner or later, there’s going to be a magistrate with nothing but female children.
Real life case in point. I have five cousins who are siblings (one male, four female). Only two of them have male children. Similarly, my godparents have five daughters and no sons.
On the other hand, my godparents do have two grandsons. Would a magistrate in a similar situation be succeeded by his grandson, since he didn’t have a son? Or does some mystical condition assure that the magistrate has at least one male child?
Which, of course, leads to the last question: Will Juris’ and Lee’s child eventually be drawn to Bete Noire to assume the role of magistrate? Again, I get the impression the various magistrates don’t have any choice in being the magistrate.
In a way, it kinda sorta reminds me of an aspect of the Brother Blood lineage in Wolfman and Perez’s classic “New Teen Titans” series. Not unlike The Phantom, Brother Blood was believed by some to be immortal, when it was actually a father-to-son tradition (except that the son killed the father in the father’s 100th year, and that the various Brother Bloods were evil). In one story (an annual, if I recall correctly), we learn that the present-day Brother Blood had, as a youth, attempted to escape his destiny and go out into the world. Circumstances forced him back home, however, in his father’s 100th year; and despite his earlier declarations that he would not carry on the family tradition, he ended up doing just that.
Rick
Other comics sputter and die. This one started out solid as a rock, and improves issue by issue.
I’m having a blast.
Well done, sir! Keep it up!
I disagree that this would be a good ending to the series. Still too many questions unanswered, although we get a lot here. I don’t think the series should start with a new number 1, either. DC just needs to promote it better. I refuse to believe people won’t pick up a series at issue 19 (or any number, for that matter) because they won’t be getting in on the ground floor. It would be very nice if this title could get more promotion. Maybe with the Hulk coming out, more people will be interested in your other work. Excellent issue, by the way.
Where the heck is Bete Noire? There’s a palm tree outside the hospital. I always thought of it as being someplace cooler.
I’m sure this has been answered previously, but why isn’t this a Vertigo book? DC would probably market it better if it were. Was it a specific request on your part?
Thanks for keeping up the brilliant work.
Greg
Greg –
Vertigo didn’t want it. Their loss.
Re: Fallen Angel #18.
Wow. A really great issue.
————–Spoillers————————
I almost felt sorry for Boxer at the end. It was a really nice twist to have Lee not kill him (yeah, she threaten to Mariah instead, but still) and then to turn around and have Juris just blow him away. Totally caught me off guard.
By the way, I don’t think that Juris was using Lee all this time just to produce an heir. It’s just that when the opportunity presented itself he figured why waste it.
I sorta have a love/hate thing going with the last five pages. It’s not that it wasn’t a great way to wrap everything up, it’s just if DC hadn’t been threatening to pull the plug I would have much rather have seen this story line play itself out naturally. Something along the lines of PAD dropping little clues over the next few issues and then maybe for #25 he reveals that Lee still has the baby, and then when she started showing we could have all gone on the road trip with her.
Ah well, you can’t have everything. And on the silver lining side of things, with all the major story lines wrapprd up the idea of Re-numbering #19 to #1, Vol. 2 is starting to look better.
PS. PAD, have you shopped Fallen Angel around to any TV sudios? I have to beleive there is a market for this out there even if it’s just a little niche market like the SciFi channel or something.
-=-=-Russ
Fantastic story this month Peter.
I loved all of the plot twists, I won’t give anything away but I never did see the Juris plot twist coming. Nothing is as it seems in Bette Noire.
Keep them coming.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Impressive. Yet again. Only one copy left in my store, and I got there 1/2 after opening… I’ll take that a good sign. It was a great resolution after #17, and even after all the anticipation and discussion, I wasn’t disappointed in the least.
Some thoughts: there’s the frequent use of the chess board to show the status of the “game”, and here you can see that a black pawn is in position to take a white rook… can’t make out the position of the knight quite, given the perspective of the drawing.
Juris seems to play black, so one of his pawns is about to reach the end of the board (and become a queen?), and take the castle. This, at the same time Mr. Goode is discussing punishment, and immediately before Slate & his henchman have their chat.
Also thinking that family trees are heirarchies; is Mr. Goode a previous Magistrate? And Mr. Kind his brother? Father? I seem to remember that descendents of Cain were the ones who lived to be 900+ years old.
Random observation: for folks interested in the “is she L-?” question, look in issue #17, page 2, very first panel. Shows Boxer sitting in Lee’s closet. Look carefully at the items on the floor…
Last, I really like the artwork. The art team captures a lot of subtlety in the facial expressions and body language that convey a lot. Such as near the end, when Lee’s looking into the fire at the convent; that’s a very well-done rendition.
I liked it (and my wife would like to point out that she liked it a lot too).
Im not up on the bible so I figured Enouch was important but wasn’t sure how.
Couple of things I noticed Goodes coat is the same as the one Linda wore into town it could be nothing or a connection is there some bible quote involving angels and the words good and kind?
Also the Rook it’s like the carpet from a couple of issues ago it’s a clue but to what?
This is the best single issue of any comic I have read in a very long time.
I do wonder if this book has been altered or if this is how it would have appeared if this had of been the final issue.
And Linda is Lee for my money.
“Well, the big revelation about Benny so far is that he swallows people like a snake.
Or should I say serpent?”
My counter to this one (and I have no idea how faithful PAD would feel he needed to be to the source material) is that (1) the serpent was made to crawl on his belly (which Benny clearly isn’t doing) and (2) the sons of Eve (I think, it’s been years since I read the Garden of Eden story) were supposed to be crushing him underfoot – which it would imply isn’t happening if Benny is untouchable.
My other thought was that he was Jonah’s whale.
“Random observation: for folks interested in the “is she L-?” question, look in issue #17, page 2, very first panel. Shows Boxer sitting in Lee’s closet. Look carefully at the items on the floor…”
Okay, it’s a bit dark, but there appear to be 3 things there…going right to left, there’s what seems to be an open box, a pair of white lace-up boots (almost look like boxing shoes) and a pair of what could possibly be familiar-looking red boots?
On a related note…after Supergirl #50, did we ever see Linda’s back? Did she have the “wing removal” scars?
For a change of pace, I see I got more right than wrong.
Spoilers here, for those who haven’t read it yet.
Spoilers |
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|
V
Boxer DID regret his actions, but good.
The baby DID live.
B
Regarding Benny, how better to punish someone than to make everyone want to kill them, but make them immortal? Benny just keeps getting stomped on.
—Dave
I thought this was an excellent issue.
So did the Fourth Rail guys.
Randy Lander gave it the best of the week with a 10/10
Don MacPherson gave it a 9/10.
http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/snapjudgments/112904/fallenangel18.shtml
Really enjoyed this, even though I’m not familiar with Enoch.
Now we begin the 3 month wait for #19…
Can I say HOLY SH*T?!!! If this comic doesn’t get an award, there is no justice. I am off to the comic shop to rail at the regs until they all read this. Hey, just read a day or so back that you will be at Necronomicon ’05 just down the street (2.5 miles from my house), YESSSSSSSSS!!!
I was reading last months Back Issue magazine this morning, and one of the features is about the Brave and the Bold. One of the panels shown (from #98 I think) had Batman with his godson and they were talking about Enoch. I don’t think I had heard of Enoch before Wednesday.
Peter,
This was one hëll of an issue.
I posted some time ago that I was dropping Fallen Angel, so I think it’s only fair that I come back and post that I’ve been thoroughly sucked back in. The “Hurly Burly” storyline has been just breathtakingly amazing, and this comic is now more than fulfilling its tremendous original promise. Well done!
The Book of Enoch:
Interesting thing, whilst looking up info on what exactly the revelation was in Fallen Angel (being a good deal less familiar with the Bible then I used to be)
Anyway, there is a Book of Enoch, now considered apocryphal (secret, banned) to the Christian church when the Council of Laodicea threw it out.
“The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians – precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels.”
http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm
The text of the books is there as well (links on the side.) Basically, it tells of the angels of heaven who came to lust after humans and defiles themselves with them. The progeny of this union were the giants, who proceeded to make waste of the earth.
Not sure if this ties in with Fallen Angel or not (though it seems a large coincidence) but I thought it was some cool info to pass on.
Peter. I’m a long time lurker, first time poster. Great issue. Poingiant. I hadn’t even figured the Cain angle. I haven’t read all the posts here so I’m not sure where I fall with the majority but I hate to see boxer go… assuming he’s gone. And yeah I thought Benny was/is The Serpent too. Here’s hoping you get to continue enough issues to settle the question. I really believe this is your best work as you’ve said.
Back to lurking…
Fantastic. Shocking. Moving. Emotional. Bum kicking. My favorite issue, and I’ve loved each one thus far. Kudos Peter, for a job wonderfully done (thus far!).
Cannot wait to find out what happens next…
Fantastic issue, as you well know.
But… are we ever going to hear the backstory about Lee’s first child?
A funny thing in doing random google searches on Enoch was finding a tag called “Did Fallen Angels censor the Bible?” as it discussed fallen angels inflitrating church workings to remove certain activities from church texts-like the Book of Enoch.
But I digress.
‘Fallen Angel’ has only gotten better by being a continually building story where every past event has purpose and meaning to the now.
I figured Juris would kill Boxer; but the fact that Juris’ son is alive makes Boxer’s murder all that much more terrible a deed by Juris, as well as sympathetic in a manner.
It’s funny how powerful and bizarre the people of Bete Noire are, yet the power of an unborn babe makes people do all kinds differently.
Very human. Very emotional. Very good.
The wait will be too long until #19.
It was great.
I just read the last 30 issues of Supergirl, and I love to go with the theory that Lee is Linda (taking her town’s name as her own). But even if it isn’t, this book is the follow-up that book in feel. Great stuff.
And I smell a huge huge inspiration from the Prisoner here. In all the right ways.
I hope we get more then 2 more issues!
The idea of ‘worthiness’ seems to sort of float through this story.
I did appreciate Boxer being cast in the role of Abel and Juris recommitting the sin that got him stuck there in the first place thereby showing that he wasn’t ‘worthy’ to leave. (Bette Noir is sort of like the anti-garden of eden then I guess. You get tossed out of the Garden. You have to stay in Bette Noir)
Mike,
Juris is not Cain. He’s a decendent of Cain’s. Still, you can’t miss the symbolism of his committing what is basically the same crime as his ancestor (number of removed generations is unknown). Oh, yes. It seems that Juris is exactly where he belongs.
David,
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that Juris was Cain. What I meant was: Juris is cursed because of Cain’s actions (in theory) through no direct fault of his own. But in committing the same crime (sin) as Cain he shows that he isn’t worthy to leave Bette Noir.
He recommits the sin that got him stuck there in the first place.
Hope this clarifies.