Since my previous blog entry was an entirely partisan guess about how things are going to turn out…and is already approaching a potentially unwieldy one hundred comments…I invite folks who actually want to discuss this election night to do so here.
Since my previous blog entry was an entirely partisan guess about how things are going to turn out…and is already approaching a potentially unwieldy one hundred comments…I invite folks who actually want to discuss this election night to do so here.
• 
“… should Bush win, do you think there will be a good chance that Hilary Clinton will run for the Dems’ presidential nomination?”
Gods below.
Time to move to the U.S. and vote Republican, in that case.
PAD says: “The way I see it, there’s only one remote upside: If Bush is re-elected, things are just going to get SO much worse (bring on the scandals and investigations that dog second terms, kids)that even his most devoted, blind followers will finally wise up. Which means that what’s left of the country in 2008 can put a true Democratic slate into the White House and Congress and reverse the continuing horror show that is Bush, something that wouldn’t have been possible with a Kerry win but a Republic House and Senate in place.”
PAD
THAT’S your wish? that things get so bad that people will finally admit that you were right? How about wishing that things go well? Or is it more important to be right?
I realize that it’s easier to be philosophical when one’s candidate actually wins and I honestly sympathize with my friends who were devoted kerry supporters (and far more passionate about their guy than I would ever dream of being–you didn’t see me talking about emigrating if the vote went poorly) but some of this talk is quickly descending into self indulgence.
BIG WINNERS- Bush, duh.
Al Franken–has a job.
Sinclair Broadcasting-Will now not get auditted
Hillary Clinton- Happier than she will ever be able to let on.
Republicans- hit the trifecta
BIG LOSERS- Kerry, duh
Pollsters- Zogby must want to drink hemlock
Exit Polls- that’s 2 in a row they flunked. take this dog and shoot it.
Michael Moore- rapidly approaching the magical Jean Dixon level of prophecy (where he is wrong to a mathematical degree that may actually indicate some kind of psychic powers of prediction)
George Soros- So long and thanks for all the fish
Main Stream Media- dinosaurs watching an asteroid streak across the sky.
argh! As much as I hate to admit it, it looks like we are stuck with the current “President” for another four years. And I put that in ” ” because I don’t think a lot of what he has done has been very presidential.
Should have added Obama to the winners list–this guy has star potential written all over him.
Biggest loser–Conventional wisdom.
Another big loser- campaign finance reform. Jesus, we could have built cities on Mars for what this all cost.
My initial comments on the matter are at my own blog ( http://www.xanga.com/averagejoe523 ). Feel free to stop by and comment. As for here, I am still in wait and see mode, but scared for my wife and children in the eventuality of Bush staying in office.
averagejoe wrote:
“As for here, I am still in wait and see mode, but scared for my wife and children in the eventuality of Bush staying in office.”
Can you be any more melodramatic?
America made is just a little over 200 years. But 4 more years of Bush will show this country is just the the Taliban with Christians instead of Muslims….
Dennis:
>averagejoe wrote:
“As for here, I am still in wait and see mode, but scared for my wife and children in the eventuality of Bush staying in office.”
>Can you be any more melodramatic?
How is a man expressing that he is scared for his family under President Bush melodramatic? I fear for the nation and the world. This is stronger than his statement and still doesn’t reach the level of “melodramatic” to me. If someone stated that they thought Bush was waiting to press the button and wipe out our enemies…. well, that might be.
Fred
This is SO depressing. How can people be so bigoted and so stupidly close minded to not see what’s happening to the country? Gay marriage bans everywhere, jobs being lost left and right, our economy closer and closer to a tailspin…
Stupidity, obviously, carries a great deal of weight in the world. Am I disenfranchised voter (my first time, too…)? You betcha. No faith in the system here, folks. None at all.
I ever see Bush, it’ll depress me more… because I so desperately want to spit on him but know he isn’t worth the effort.
Sigh. Just means more of “Daddy’s War” for the next four years.
That’s it. Next time, I’m voting for Superman. Or Captain America. Whomever can best wipe the floor with this rampant stupidity.
James Tichy: Fox News says Bush has Ohio.
Luigi Novi: Even though everyone else is saying that Ohio is too close to call, and has to be thoroughly examine?
Gee, I
“As a mere observer of this tasteless phenomenon..”
.. I would probably get thumped equally by both sides for expressing any preference. There was however, a fairly interesting TV piece shown over here on Monday, with figures that indicate that the actual eventual choice of who gets to have his finger on the button will be made by less than half of one per cent of Americans eligible to vote, most of whom are woefully ignorant on a number of relevant facts and all of whom have been lied to and manipulated by both sides…
http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/27110.html
Cheers!
I don’t know what is more sad about this election; the legions of Bush apologists, the legions of ABB (anybody but Bush) Kerry supporters, or the fact that the sum total of independent candidates were not able to exceed 2% of the popular vote in any state (source – USA Today).
It seems to me, especially based on the voting patterns, that the Democratic party caters to entitlement mentality (I’m not going to vote for you unless you can give me something), which speaks very poorly for our national sense of accountability and responsibility.
It also seems painfully obvious fashion that the Republican party won’t be happy until they’ve legislated the melting pot out of existence. Let’s all be white, Christian, straight, church-going folk. If you don’t fit into that paradigm, America has no place for you.
Despite your political leanings, the fact remains that either candidate planned $2.5 trillion in new spending that John Q. Taxpayer will have to fund. Can one of you Bush apologists (seems to be no shortage of them here) please explain to me how that’s fiscally conservative?
I think the saddest thing (next to thinking about 4 more years of the same) is how many people are willing to vote for a guy because of “moral standings” or “he’s a decent guy with a good heart.”
As if these are that is required for a person to be qualified to run a world power.
The scary thing is that a majority of our voters seem to approve of invading another country, in the name of self defense, even if it ends out being that we really weren’t in any imminent danger from that country. Oops our bad, sorry for the needless death and destruction, but your leader was a creep anyway, and you’re so much better off with the lawlessness and war. I’ve read reports from troops over in Iraq finding mutliple mass graves with “thousands of bodies.” While I question how an average Joe knows what thousands of bodies looks like, I’m willing to take that at face value. I still question whether Iraq is better off…tens of thousands killed by Saddam during bouts of “ethnic cleansing (murder)” or tens of thousands (up to 100,000) dead because of lawlessness and instability caused by our invasion. Either way, people are dead. I’m sure those innocent civilians who have died over the past 18 months feel so much better that they died in the name of America’s Freedom.
Sad, scary times.
In regards to the Gay Marriage thing: You know, when I went to vote in my small southern town where a state constitutional amendment was on the ballotto ban gay marriage, I was actually TOLD how to vote on it (i.e., yes on the ammedment against gay marriage). The person said that “…for this they want everybody to vote yes…”. Of course, I voted ‘no’.
I’m not sure if this was just the person saing this (who I know is a strong christian fundamentalist), or if she was actually told to tell everyone to vote yes on the ammendment. I decided not to report this, since the person is also a friend of the family, and I didn’t want to get her into any serious trouble; but it did seem very wrong to me.
Thank you, America, for voting for the gibbering idiot.
You’re on the verge of guaranteeing us another 4 years of stupidity and insanity.
At this point, I’d almost think that we deserve whatever happens to us now.
“God curse America”
I decided not to report this, since the person is also a friend of the family, and I didn’t want to get her into any serious trouble
And in the mean time, we continue to let poeple get away with voter intimidation.
I hope you’re proud of yourself. 🙁
Actually, she wasn’t intimidating anyone in the ‘vote this way or die!’ manner. She just told me (and I can only speak for myself) to vote this way on this ammendment; no instructions on how to vote on anything else.
I just think that most people, if she said the same thing to them (espically the elderly), would just do as she told them, trusting that this was the right thing to do.
things are just going to get SO much worse (bring on the scandals and investigations that dog second terms, kids)that even his most devoted, blind followers will finally wise up. Which means that what’s left of the country in 2008 can put a true Democratic slate into the White House
Dreaming, PAD. Reapportionment has shown that country is only growing more conservative. The states Bush won in 2000 have 7 more electoral votes, while the Democratic states have 7 less this time around. And it’s a trend that’s continuing. The next president elected will be anti-gay, anti-choice, militaristic, and thoroughly pro-corporate. No matter how bad the screw-ups, our increasingly conservative population will not vote for someone who doesn’t represent their “values”.
It’s not your (or my) country anymore. It’s Ðìçk Cheney and Jerry Falwell’s.
On behalf of my fellow Ohioans, I’d like to apologize to the country and the world. Sorry we ****ed it up for the rest of you.
MJ
I’m not sure if this was just the person saing this (who I know is a strong christian fundamentalist), or if she was actually told to tell everyone to vote yes on the ammendment. I decided not to report this, since the person is also a friend of the family, and I didn’t want to get her into any serious trouble; but it did seem very wrong to me.
If this person was an election worker at the polls, then “ideally” you should report them to the County. It’s hard to turn in a friend, though, especially if you aren’t sure if they were saying it to everyone or just sharing their opinion with you as a friend.
I’m glad that Bush won. Now, when the radical Shiite fundamentalist faction assassinates Allawi and takes over Iraq and in bloody coup, installing a repressive regime making the Taliban look like a brownie troop, we won’t be subjected to three years of Congressional hearings about how Kerry “lost” Iraq.
Karl Rove will have to figure out a way to blame it on Clinton getting a bløw jøb.
America died today.
I just think that most people, if she said the same thing to them (espically the elderly), would just do as she told them, trusting that this was the right thing to do.
It is not a poll workers job to tell you what to vote for. Plain and simple.
If she gave her opinion, which she is not supposed to do, that’s intimidation imo. Her job is to answer questions about how to fill out a ballot.
You can’t be serious. The tape from bin Laden was right in Bush’s wheelhouse. It reminded people that bin Laden was out there and gave them another last minute, healthy jolt of fear, which is what the Bush campaign feeds off of, like vampires. The timing was impeccable and only helped Bush.
PAD,
You are not suggesting that Bush had anything to do with the tape, are you? My point is that for the last 3 years, I have heard conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory of how Bush was going to pull an October surprise, such as suddenly capturing Bin Laden.
The CBS story with forged documents, and the “sudden” discovery, one week before the election, that some weapons (can’t call them WMD’s, but Kerry sure acted like Bush let someone have WMD’s) are gone, are just two examples of the tricks pulled by the left in this election.
So yes, I am totally serious.
Jim in Iowa
I think Kerry lost for a number of reasons, among them:
1) The Bushies ran a superior campaign – they never got caught flatfooted like Kerry did with the Swifties nor did they fall into the trap of nuanced, complex talking points…instead they stuck with bite-sized sloganeering which, let’s face it, works better.
2) Clinton’s health waylayed him for such a long time, he was unable to effectively stump for Kerry.
3) The “youth vote” never materialized – sure, there was Vote or Die, Choose or Lose, Rock the Vote, etc. etc. but everyone forgets that teenagers are lazy shiftless punks who don’t follow through. And their music sucks.
4) People are scared to death. The Vice President told us if we vote for Kerry then a surly Muslim extremist would stab us in the eye with a salad fork as soon as we left the voting booth. Dude, I’m not taking the chance…
5) Maybe it’s true that the country is slowly drifting more to the Right as the Democratc party drifts more to the Left. Beats me.
“jim in iowa: (One fear that there would be an “October surprise” by Bush never happened. Instead, again like in 2000, there was an “October Surprise” to attack Bush.)
Luigi Novi: If you
>B>Well, first and foremost, there’s a lot of stupid people out there. Three quarters of Bush’s supporters STILL think Saddam was in league with bin Laden and had WMDs. Stupid people’s votes count.
I have no idea what the polls show, but then again, yesterday showed how wrong polls can be.
As for me, I did NOT believe Saddam was “in league with Bin Laden” but that Saddam clearly was sympathetic in general to Al Quaida (sp?) and that there were clear ties between the two. Saddam was friendly to a large number of terrorists.
I currently admit that there were not the stockpiles of WMD’s (since we can’t count the weapons that were not WMD’s that are now missing and that Kerry had a fit over, then dropped when there was personal testimony of a major who destroyed much of said weapons), but the dirty little secret the media likes to ignore is what the FULL text of the inspectors report said: Iraq was just biding its time and had clear intentions for making WMD’s. They had the parts ready to put together as soon as we looked the other way.
Second, as is indicated by nearly a dozen states going out of their way to formalize bias insofar as gays are concerned (displaying the same frame of mind that once said, “Oh my God, blacks can’t marry whites” or “Jews can’t marry Catholics”) there’s a ton of people out there who share Bush’s narrow-minded bigotry and intolerance, and thus embrace him. They believe, like Bush, that government shouldn’t intrude into people’s lives except, of course, if someone’s sexual orientation or a woman’s uterus is involved.
Opposing gay marriage is fundamentally NOT the same as saying a Jew cannot marry a Catholic. There is a reason why a ban on gay marriage won overwhelmingly in 10 (and possibly won in 11) states. There is a clear, physical difference between men and women. That difference is (apart from medical intervention), only a man and woman together can have a child. Having kids is not the sole purpose of marriage, but it is a fundamental one in principle. A mixed racial couple can have a child. A gay couple cannot.
Why is this such a big deal? Because it is clear that this is not just about a gay couple having legal rights of hospital visitation, inheritance, health care, etc. It is about the destruction of the concept of marriage. I don’t expect you to agree, but when you listen to what the gay activists actually say, it is clear that they want to destroy the traditional definition. If so, what do they want to replace it with? Anything suggested is a pale imitation which will not last.
You go look at gay marriage where it is legal in Europe and relationships last an average of 1.5 years, and the majority are not monogamous relationships. Why does this matter? It will matter to the kids involved if a gay partnership is treated as equal to a traditional marriage, so that adoption of kids (or artifical births) become the norm. We thought things were bad now with children of divorced homes, it will only get worse.
Third, Bush and Cheney have been working on keeping Americans in fear and at war for three years, betting on the historical track record that Americans don’t like to switch leadership if they’re afraid or at war.
I understand why you see it that way. I would suggest Kerry’s campaign was based on a false fear of Bush, while Bush’s campaign was based on a valid fear of terrorism.
Fourth, I said months ago that if Kerry didn’t manage to present a credible alternative in terms of Iraq, people would simply stick with Bush.
On this we agree.
Fifth, a rabid Bush supporter built the computerized, non-checkable voting machines. I suspect that we’re going to be overwhelmed with stories in the next weeks of malfunctions and screw-ups at polling places.
If this is true, I hope it is discovered soon and dealt with. I have no desire for Bush to win based on such tactics.
That being said, the popular vote at this point is so large, that I doubt one voting machine could have made that much of a difference and it not to have been immediately evident. This is an easy allegation to make, but there is absolutely no proof. It is based on the assumption that this man who made the machines will cheat. But if this man was a rabid Kerry supporter, would you make the same assumption?
This is one prediction that I think will be proven wrong.
Sixth, see the first.
Gee, nice to know that you consider a loyal reader of many of your works stupid. Don’t worry, I am too hooked on Madrox to dump it, so I will have to forget it.
Calling an overwhelming majority of Americans “stupid” doesn’t really answer the question of why this happened. If they are so stupid, how were they all convinced by Bush rather than Kerry and his news services on most of the major media. How were they not convinced by Michael Moore? I love Bush, but I have already admitted that Kerry is a far better debater, etc. I was very frustrated that Bush did not make a better case on a lot of issues. But if it makes you feel better to think we are stupid, that is fine. It just means we have a good chance of winning again in another 4 years.
Jim in Iowa
jim in iowa: Well, it is done. The people have spoken. As much as some of you fear Bush, I suspect in 4 years many of your fears will be proven wrong.
Luigi Novi: How can they be proven wrong in 4 years when they
“The CBS story with forged documents, and the “sudden” discovery, one week before the election, that some weapons (can’t call them WMD’s, but Kerry sure acted like Bush let someone have WMD’s)”
He did let someone have WMDs. They’re called North Korea. He not only dropped the ball, he kicked it 30 yards the wrong way down the field. With Iran, I think that he’s simple dropped the ball on field, it that makes you feel any better.
Kerry just called Bush to concede. That’s that, now he won popular and electoral with record turn out. Can we stop with the “stole election”, “not my President”, this clearly was will of the people.
Clearly the will of the people, indeed – and that’s pretty sad. See, I’m not surprised about it being the will of the people because the people are Americans and they love their evil. If memory and history serves me correctly slavery, woman descrimination, jim crow, lynching and genocide was also the will of the people. I don’t mind having a dumb guy in as president, but the Republican’s are just evil as what all. They believe in racism, sexism, and any ism that makes white people feel safe and comfortable. That why New York put that Ghoul Gulliani in office twice. Had nothing to do with track record (because the man was as bad a Mayor as Bush is a president) but as long as they keep the darks in line, bomb people for not reason – white people feel safe therefore are happy to keep them in office.
So it’s indeed the will of the people. Just not the people who are humane and dont’ mind acting like it.
Air America just reported that Kerry has conceded. I hope you Bush supporters are happy. We now have a man who started an unnecessary war, is ruining our environment, wants to gut social security, and cares only for his base (the haves and have mores) Congratulations. Your blind worship has put in office the worst president we’ve ever had.
Umar,
Not all white people. Just the ones with the money to control this country.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Calling an overwhelming majority of Americans “stupid” doesn’t really answer the question of why this happened. If they are so stupid, how were they all convinced by Bush rather than Kerry and his news services on most of the major media.
No, I think it DOES answer the question pretty convincingly. The American public IS, by and large, stupid. For just one indication, look at the television they watch. Slack-witted people are easily swayed by fear-mongering and manipulation, which is what Bush/Cheney excels at. They were spoon-fed lies (Iraq was behiond 9-11! They are minutes away from a noo-kyuler bomb!) and they ate it up because they WANTED to believe it (why start questioning cherished assumptions now? It’s much easier to believe what daddy, I mean, the President, I mean Bill O’Reilly tells me!)
How were they not convinced by Michael Moore?
Slack-wittedness, see above.
I love Bush, but I have already admitted that Kerry is a far better debater, etc. I was very frustrated that Bush did not make a better case on a lot of issues. But if it makes you feel better to think we are stupid, that is fine. It just means we have a good chance of winning again in another 4 years.
Your gullibility doesn’t make me feel better, it makes me feel sad. George Bush and his cronies are are pillaging this county at the behest of their corporate masters, and no one cares. It makes me sad that women voted for Bush when he’s actively working to curtail their civil rights. It baffles that any African-American would vote for a party that actively works to disenfrachise them. It further depressed me that young men are lining up to vote for a man who — in a matter of months — will likely have to draft them and send the to die in Iraq so Halliburton can continue to soak up fat government contracts.
So no, your ignorance, and the ignorance of those who “love Bush” doesn’t make me feel better, because I have to live in this little retrograde fantasyland you’re creating for yourselves, too.
At least you have the gays to kick around. I mean, they’re used to it, right? Be that much longer before you guys come for the Jews and the Catholics and the blacks and the liberals and all the rest of us undesirables.
He did let someone have WMDs. They’re called North Korea. He not only dropped the ball, he kicked it 30 yards the wrong way down the field. With Iran, I think that he’s simple dropped the ball on field, it that makes you feel any better.
My post had nothing to do with what you are talking about. More importantly, a very strong case can be made that at the very least, it was the Clinton administrations handling of N. Korea that paved the was for them to have nuclear weapons.
The issue of Iran exposes the way those on the left want things both ways. When it came to Iraq, there is an insistence that we should have waited for the rest of the nations to agree (forgetting the fact that they actually authorized many UN resolutions, they just lost the resolve to actually do something when Saddam refused to comply). Yet in Iran Bush is criticized for not acting, conveniently forgetting that those same allies voted against even strong sanctions agains Iran (which are only unilaterally in place by us).
So which is it? Should Bush wait for the UN and a “league of nations” to go after Iran, or should he go it alone? (Or suggest another alternative that is consistent with your position.) You can’t have it both ways.
Bush has both acted on this issue and worked hard to bring along our allies. What exactly do you want him to do that he has not done?
Jim in Iowa
The election is over and we may not all be happy with who won (I’m personally more upset that my senator, Tom Daschle, lost) but it’s time to go on and try to do our best for our country. Those people commenting here that this is the death knell of America or that we will become a “Christian fundamentalist Taliban” obviously have a very narrow view of history and of current events. We’ll go on and we’ll do the best we can. That means instead of whining over this election, do what you can to help your candidates in the next election–and I don’t mean four years from now. Get involved in local elections. Vote. You’ve got House elections every two years. You may have a senator up for re-election in two years. Get involved, stay involved and keep voting.
In the meantime, support your country and don’t try to make things worse for yourself or others. I saw this at another blog today and it’s very fitting:
The post-election peace pledge
I promise to… Support the President, even if I didn’t vote for him….. Criticize the President, even if I did vote for him….. Uphold standards of civilized discourse in blogs and in media while pushing both to be better…. Unite as a nation, putting country over party, as we work together to make America better.
Clearly the will of the people, indeed – and that’s pretty sad. See, I’m not surprised about it being the will of the people because the people are Americans and they love their evil. If memory and history serves me correctly slavery, woman descrimination, jim crow, lynching and genocide was also the will of the people. I don’t mind having a dumb guy in as president, but the Republican’s are just evil as what all.
Where do you get all of this stuff? Does American history have its share of mistakes and horrible crimes. Sure. But it has a much larger share of ways it has made restitution and fought for what is right. Go check history. Lincoln was the first Republican president. He was the one who freed the slaves.
Bush won with more popular votes than any other president in history, including Clinton or Reagan. Go ahead and assume it is because you think we are stupid or evil (or both). You will only help show us evil, stupid masses how out of touch you are with reality.
Jim in Iowa
My wife and I don’t have kids …um …does that mean we should divorce ?
Yb wrote:
Jim in Iowa:
Bush won with more popular votes than any other president in history, including Clinton or Reagan.
Oh come on, let’s not start the spin already. yes, Bush did what you say he did, but it’s not nearly as significant as you and Andrew Card suggest. Bush won with more popular votes than any other president in history, but John Kerry came second with more popular votes than any other runner-up in history.
More people voted, yeah, but Bush still only won by about 2%. Don’t try and make it look like a more significant majority than it was.
From a news story in the Dallas Morning news: Putin said U.S.-Russian relations have improved under Bush’s presidency “for the benefit of our peoples and global security.”
Bush has shown himself to be a “tough politician, a man with strong character … and a predictable partner,” Putin said.
Guess Bush has not been as bad with our allies as suggested. For those who want to hear directly from Iraqi’s about how they feel about us and what the war in Iraq actually means, go see “Voices of Iraq.” You will hear things you will never hear on the mainstream media.
Here is a review of the movie: http://www.jamesbowman.net/reviewDetail.asp?pubID=1568
Oh come on, let’s not start the spin already. yes, Bush did what you say he did, but it’s not nearly as significant as you and Andrew Card suggest. Bush won with more popular votes than any other president in history, but John Kerry came second with more popular votes than any other runner-up in history. More people voted, yeah, but Bush still only won by about 2%. Don’t try and make it look like a more significant majority than it was.
And don’t make it less significant than it really is. For 4 years the constant refrain has been that Bush lost the popular vote. For him to be so clearly re-elected, by far more than voted for him the first time, and by far more than have ever voted for a president IS significant. Even more significant, he won with a majority of the votes, something Clinton never did.
It further depressed me that young men are lining up to vote for a man who — in a matter of months — will likely have to draft them and send the to die in Iraq so Halliburton can continue to soak up fat government contracts.
So no, your ignorance, and the ignorance of those who “love Bush” doesn’t make me feel better, because I have to live in this little retrograde fantasyland you’re creating for yourselves, too.
You actually believe Bush will bring back the draft and you call me ignorant? There is absolutely no reason or cause to believe he will do so. More importantly, it really is not up to Bush, it is up to those in Congress. I can guarantee that even if Bush asks for it, the Republicans in Congress would not support a draft because they are not subject to term limits — they will want to be elected next time around. This absolute lie about the draft is more an act of desperation than the reaction to a real threat.
At least you have the gays to kick around. I mean, they’re used to it, right? Be that much longer before you guys come for the Jews and the Catholics and the blacks and the liberals and all the rest of us undesirables.
How, exactly am I kicking around gays? I have stated one thing: that I do not want to expand the definition of marriage to include a gay partnership. Such as definition has never existed. I have not suggested (and would utterly oppose) any violence against gays. I would not even agree with the reinstitution of sodomy laws any more than I would want to make adultery illegal. I think both are wrong and harmful to society, but I would not fine someone or put him or her in prison.
Jim in Iowa
R. Maheras:
The U.N. has been largely anti-American since it was founded…
Um…the UN was formed largely by efforts from the US. They can’t have done a very good job of it if it was immediately anti-American…
It’s also based in New York, which doesn’t seem like a very sensible place to be based if you’re an anti-American organisation…
The reason the UN was put in New York was because the League of Nations (UN I) failed without US support.
Iowan Jim:
And don’t make it less significant than it really is. For 4 years the constant refrain has been that Bush lost the popular vote. For him to be so clearly re-elected, by far more than voted for him the first time, and by far more than have ever voted for a president IS significant. Even more significant, he won with a majority of the votes, something Clinton never did.
Jim, 51% of 105 million is not more statistically significant than 51% of forty.
More people turned out to vote this time. Great. Bush got more of the vote than last time out. Good for him. But Bush still only got 51%. You’re trying to make it sound like he got a clear majority nearer to 75% or something. He didn’t. 51% is not a clear statistical majority.
Mark L:
The reason the UN was put in New York was because the League of Nations (UN I) failed without US support.
Well exactly. I just find it odd that a US-pioneered organisation can be said to be anit-American from its inception. 🙂
Sad truth is that half of America’s voters are morons, or acting moronically. They obviously believe the crap that Bush has told them. America is in for a lot of division because those of us who hate Bush are not going to start backing the jerk.
I would like to see bumper stickers that say “Osama Heart Bush.” Makes a valid point, I should think.
Anyone who wants to help me kill my bosses, loot the company funds, and run away to Brazil where I can’t be extradited gets a free Big Mac.
You know, I really AM considering leaving the USA if I can figure it out. It’s more a problem of personal finances than anything else to leave. There are times when you say, “I am so afraid that it won’t get any better that I’m packing up and leaving.”
Every pathetic idiot who voted for Bush should take a long hard look at the way to Armaggedon. ‘Cause that’s where we’re going.
Iowan Jim:
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And don’t make it less significant than it really is. For 4 years the constant refrain has been that Bush lost the popular vote. For him to be so clearly re-elected, by far more than voted for him the first time, and by far more than have ever voted for a president IS significant. Even more significant, he won with a majority of the votes, something Clinton never did.
Seems to me that the times have been more of a factor than the man himself. Fear has been the ongoing issue in the campaign and has been played to the hilt by the administration. Unfortunately, the facts, actions and inconsistancies have never gotten in the way. When fear is a factor, educating oneself on the facts, taking a breath and looking objectively at the issues tends to take the back seat a majority of the time…… anybosy been keeping track of the stats being thrown out on the American public’s perceptions of the “reason” for going into Iraq, the Hussein/bin Laden connection, WMDs, etc?