Brian Hibbs replied to my commentary here…
http://www.comixexperience.com/savblog/savblog.html
…so you can go check it out there ’cause I’m not going to reprint the entirety of someone’s blog entry since–y’know–one really shouldn’t do that.
And fortunately enough, I don’t feel like I’m in a pìššìņg match with Brian, because ultimately we’re after the same thing: To sell comics. But he makes a couple of points worth addressing specifically…
Yes, I’ve been extremely upfront, in any number of interviews, that I’ve always known Fallen Angel was a tough sell in today’s market. Putting aside the general fan resistence to any non-mutant character created more recently than 1978, I’ve said any number of times that here’s a title of a dark and ambiguous nature with a mysterious female protagonist who is not scantily clad and whose motivations aren’t spoon fed to the readers (although, as people on this board have proven, it’s all there for those who care to look). A book that DC made a point of saying was not part of the DCU, thereby assuring readers they could safely skip it, and was slapped with a “For Mature Readers” label and a price hike, all in less than a year. And without the Vertigo label, we fly under the radar of Vertigo readers. I’ve been VERY honest about that all along.
My point–and I did have one–was that in recent months the book seems on the verge of overcoming all of that as more and more reviewers rave about it and more and more readers start seeking it out…only to discover it couldn’t be found, and there’s apathy in some quarters about getting it for willing readers. While the non-ordering habits of some retailers is certainly not the only reason Fallen Angel has been a tough slog, I hardly think those same retailers could be exempt from comment or criticism simply because there’s a lot of books out there they have to deal with. Because I’m the one hearing from the fans who are complaining (and by the way, will someone PLEASE swing by Brian’s store and buy the copy of the Fallen Angel trade he says he hasn’t sold yet? Whoever does, I’ll toss in an extra something cool when you send for the bookplate. Thanks.)
Yes, there’s been any number of times when retailers have responded to surveys and such in my column (those were the only times when I’ve acquired lists of retailer addresses). Were I so inclined, I could have a pretty impressive mailing list. But I have not pursued that because–well–it seemed tacky. If I asked for retailer opinions on a subject, I want them to know it’s because I’m genuinely interested. If I start using such endeavors as the basis for a list of stores that are “friendly” to me, then I’m leaving myself open to accusations that I don’t give a crap about what retailers think, but rather am cynically trying to gather names to do exactly what Brian suggests I do: Make self-serving mailing lists. Am I possibly costing myself sales? I suppose. Better that, though, than to break faith with retailers and make them think I’m just trying to sell them something.
And I’ve been disinclined to go to such “gated” retailer on-line venues as Brian suggests because, again, it seemed tacky. I figure such places should be where retailers can gather to discuss whatever they want to discuss, without writers showing up there to huckster their material. I guess I’ll just have to count on one of those “Peter David friendly” retailers to bring word of my bookplate offer to them. I’d rather it come from one of their own rather than me shoving my face into someplace where I might not be welcome.
And I certainly hope Brian is wrong in his assessment that fans have already made up their minds and Fallen Angel is a lost cause. I’d like to think that someone who believes in tilting with windmills isn’t a big believer in lost causes. Me, I tend to look at something unassuming, such as windmills or, if you will, Fallen Angel, and instead think, They might be giants.
PAD
• 
Peter, you ask if joining the CBIA could backfire on you, and conclude that since there’s a risk, you probably shouldn’t do it.
But there’s a risk in anything — if you convince the whole planet to read FALLEN ANGEL and they all decide they hate it, that could harm sales on your next book as they all think, “This is buy that guy who did that book I hated, isn’t it?” But that’s a risk you’re willing to take.
The CBIA exists so that retailers have a forum for talking to each other, to publishers and to creators — if you want to improve your sales but you don’t think DC’s regular efforts are likely to do the job for you, then the CBIA allows you to talk directly to the people that you’d like to see raise orders.
Will bluntness or honesty turn them off? Not hardly. For one thing, there are already people there who are known for it, and it’s generally appreciated — retailers don’t get enough straight talk, so they’re happy to get more. Even when a creator disagrees with them, an open dialogue beats a lack of communication. Nat Gertler argues with retailers all the time, and they may disagree with him a lot, but they don’t penalize him for it — indeed, many of retailers he argues with most vociferously credit his presence with their selling more of his books.
Plus, of course, you have a widely-read industry column; you’re hardly an unkown quantity. Your brand of bluntness and honesty is already known to these guys, and there’s a whole thread there filled with comments from retailers saying you should join up. Nobody there has suggested that you’re too political, too rude, too anything. But they have said that being able to communicate with creators helps them sell more comics.
It’s a message board. You can try it out and if you find that it doesn’t work for you, you can stop.
But you want to sell more comics. Talking to retailers is a good way to do that.
Is there a risk? Not much of one, not compared to the benefits. I guarantee you, you’ve taken bigger risks, and probably without thinking twice about it.
kdb
“I can forgive bluntness, probably because I don’t take offense at it. But saying I said stuff that I didn’t say…that I forgive less quickly.”
I accept your statement that you’re not insulting the readers’ intelligence levels. But you’re walking the razor’s edge when you describe fans as “not thinking” and wanting to be “spoonfed”.
Intentionally or not, some of these remarks sound like put-downs and may alienate potential readers.
I accept your statement that you’re not insulting the readers’ intelligence levels. But you’re walking the razor’s edge when you describe fans as “not thinking” and wanting to be “spoonfed”.
Intentionally or not, some of these remarks sound like put-downs and may alienate potential readers.
Which is why I prefer to say that FALLEN ANGEL is using stylizations that aren’t expected in contemporary comics.
It’s simply not true that the lead character is a cipher or that her actions are random or inconsistent; some people are picking up the inner logic and some aren’t. What I think IS true is that the book is expressing that logic and motivations in ways that many readers aren’t used to–it’s strictly by way of the protagonist’s actions, and inferences from their speeches. There’s no shortcuts via external captions or other characters commenting on the protagonist. It’s a harder act to pull off, but it’s at least partially successful.
That such an approach may not be successful in the current direct market may say more about the market than about the book (it’s certainly a truism that the direct market tends to reward the familiar and the recycled). But it may also indicate some ways to market the book (outside the general direct market audience and so forth).
Peter, I’m going to have to agree with Kurt on the BBIA thing. I don’t have anywhere near his industry experience, but I do have some personal experience that might illuminate the situation.
Like you (at least in this instance; I wouldn’t presume to know your overall behavior), I’m not someone who easily reaches out to people. Part of it’s how I was raised, and part of it’s general demanor, but suffice it to say that I don’t easily take risks, sell myself, or enter into previously established groups.
And I tell you, it’s kicking my ášš. If I had to pinpoint one thing that’s hurting me most in my current job search, it’s that turtlish tendency. And let’s not even get started on the subject of me and girls.
Long story short, this is a thing I don’t like about me, and one I’m trying desperately to change. And based on that, I have to say go for it. As a wise man once told me, complacency sucks.
Hello,
I read Fallen Angel and had problems following and getting all the details. So I stopped reading it for 6 issues, but kept on getting it. I then reread all 14 issues this weekend and I enjoyed it a whole lot more. This is definatly not a “Spider-girl” book. Spider-girl is always self contained, easy to jump on to, etc… This is a take your time, read it all, think and examine everything.
All I need is for one or two retailers who–I dunno–know and hate my politics to start sniping at me. And if I fire back, isn’t it possible that I could wind up alienating the very people I’m endeavoring to court? I’m not sure it’s a risk worth taking. I may wind up dámņëd if I do, so perhaps it’s smarter if I don’t.
Oh c’mon. I hate your politics but I still buy your stuff. Well, not FA, because I think it sucks, but just about everything else. Well, okay except for Captain Marvel. Okay, that and Captain Marvel, but everything else. Well. almost… but hey, I come here and read you for free a lot. That’s gotta count some.
Shoot, now I have to get my wallet and go to the comic book store.
The reason why I like Fallen Angel so much is what makes it such a hard sell. For all its trappings Fallen Angel is a mystery novel with each issue being a chapter in that novel. Like any good mystery novel you aren
I gave the book 13 issues to grab me…it just didn’t. I can recite every plot and sublot of your Hulk run, Sandman, Lucifer, Strangers in Paradise, Bone, Transmetropolitan…but I couldn’t tell you a thing about Fallen Angel. It just didn’t make an impression. Sorry.
As for the mailing list of “PAD-Friendly stores” Why not ask in your next BID “I’d like to assemble a mailing list of PAD Friendly Stores. If you’re a PAD Friendly Store, please send me your contact info.” That takes care of the whole issue over tackyness.
I’m reminded of an old movie critic named Manny Farber. He worked in the late 1950’s, and was angry that the better films in the theatres were being ignored, by both the mass audience and the more pretentious film critics. He addressed this all in an essay entitled “Blame the Audience.”
Sometimes it’s a cheap shot to blame the audience. But sometimes it’s not. This is a judgment call, but in many aspects, Mr. David’s right. A lot of comic fans are conservative in their tastes, and they only shop for new material on the basis of “just like/but different.” Such as, “GEN 13” is “just like” “X-Men”…”but different.”
Thus, women with breasts bigger than their heads, explanations of a person’s character so the reader can think the book is “deep” without doing any real mental work, the belief that “mutants are good because they’re outcasts like gays and minorities and depressed people, so they fit in with my self-image, and other superheroes are bad” and all the rest of that nonsense.
I hate talking about myself, let alone bragging, but I bought the first “Fallen Angel” and have kept buying it, despite my wondering where the title was going. I’m still not sure where it’s going, but the ride is getting more interesting. I’m now committed to riding this horse to wherever it goes…as long as it goes.
I was almost going to say that someone like Tim Burton ought to make a “Fallen Angel” movie, but then I realized that this material is way too smart and deep for him.
Forgot to mention the “PAD friendly store” idea. This idea seems wrong on a very simple basis: a writer of mass media should ensure that his work gets placed in as wide a variety of places as possible.
Creating a “most favored nations” list of stores may convince other stores not to carry any of Mr. David’s books. “They’ve got David’s books, why should I bother risking my own cash?” And as proof of this, look no further than the back pages of most CrossGen comics, which cut back even further on the story content of their books to run lists of their “favorite” retailers. Sure worked out well for them, didn’t it?
Comparing Peter having a list of stores that have a good fan base for him and are receptive to hearing from him is hardly the same as Crossgen going out of business and that having something to do with the retailer listing in the back.
Creating a “most favored nations” list of stores may convince other stores not to carry any of Mr. David’s books. “They’ve got David’s books, why should I bother risking my own cash?” And as proof of this, look no further than the back pages of most CrossGen comics, which cut back even further on the story content of their books to run lists of their “favorite” retailers. Sure worked out well for them, didn’t it?
CrossGen didn’t cut back on story pages. They always had house ads at the back of their books. I also think their collapse had very little to do with them running a list of stores that carried their books.
-Ralf
Ralf:
>CrossGen didn’t cut back on story pages. They always had house ads at the back of their books. I also think their collapse had very little to do with them running a list of stores that carried their books.
My understanding was that they expanded their line too fast, spent beyond their means, and then lost a few million to Barnes & Noble, who owed that money to them when the bookstore chain declared bankrupcy.
Fred
For me it’s like spinach. Some people love spinach, they tell me how good it is, and how good for me, but dámņ it, I really just hate the way spinach tastes. And no matter how many times I try it, or how many people tell me they love it, and that this time maybe I’ll like it too, it still tastes like bitter grass to me. I realize some people like it, I know it is supposed to be good for me, but it doesn’t taste remotely good to me.
Stories and writers are like that too. Some are very good, and lots of people really enjoy them. Others don’t care for them at all. I like some writer’s work, while not enjoying others. Sometimes I even like one story from a particular writer while not liking another from the same writer. Just because somebody tells me a story is good doesn’t mean I will like it. It may very well be the writers best work, and still not spark an interest.
There are many great writers (of comics and other forms) that just don’t do anything for me. Is that my fault? The writer’s? Anybody’s? Or is it just personal taste? I can certainly appreciate a writer’s talent while not enjoying his work. Should I buy things that I don’t enjoy just because the writer is a favorite?
Personally, I think people should only buy what they truly love, not out of some perceived obligation to keep a work going just because you like the writer or artist. If you love it, fine, but don’t expect others to feel the same way.
William:
>For me it’s like spinach. Some people love spinach, they tell me how good it is, and how good for me, but dámņ it, I really just hate the way spinach tastes. And no matter how many times I try it, or how many people tell me they love it, and that this time maybe I’ll like it too, it still tastes like bitter grass to me. I realize some people like it, I know it is supposed to be good for me, but it doesn’t taste remotely good to me.
Hmmmm… Popeye likes spinach….. Popeye was once written by PAD…. hence, spinach can be linked to PAD by only 2 degrees of seperation. Now if only we can connect him with Kevin Bacon…. 🙂
Fred
Fred, you can eat bacon with spinach.
Or.
Popeye was played by Robin Williams in the movie of the same title.
Robin Williams was in Good Will Hunting with Matt Damon.
Matt Damon was in Saving Private Ryan with Tom Hanks.
Tom Hanks was in Apollo 13 with Keven Bacon.
So therefore, everyone who likes bacon, spinach, Popeye, Robin Williams, Tom Hanks, or Kevin Bacan will obviously love Fallen Angel and should buy it. But I digress…
Truly seriously, I’ve talked up Fallen Angel to friends and on Geoff Johns’ Boards. I put it on my pull list to hoping it would encourage my retailer to buy another copy for the shelf. It buy my books as they come out because I think “wait for the trade” can kill a good book in its infancy. I’m trying. I leave it to people more knowledgable than I to come up with actions to take above the grass-roots level.
I could have missed it but I don’t think Barnes & Noble has ever declared bankruptcy. What they may have done to Crossgen is drag their feet paying their bills. All of the bigger companies are pretty bad about it. Diamand has done it to many of the small press.
It seems I also leave it to others to read posts that I haven’t properly proofread. My apologies.
I’ll do that in one less step, David:
Kevin Bacon was in “Footloose.”
So was John Lithgow, who was in “The World According to Garp.” (As a transvestite!)
“Garp” starred Robin Williams, who eats spinach in “Popeye.”
Believe me, I was trying to work the movie “Babe” into this.
Chalk me up as another started-and-dropped reader of Fallen Angel. I’ll buy a couple issues of just about anything Peter writes, but in the end, if it doesn’t grab me, it doesn’t grab me. After 3 or 4 issues (heck if I can remember how many I bought), it was like something from A Chorus Line: “I felt nothing.” There was no character I cared about, no action I wanted to see through, and I had the sneaking suspicion that the mysteries were intended to simply be mysterious. So I bailed.
I’m sure there have been some payoffs and some great reinto issues, but I’m not biting. Once I’ve stepped away, I don’t go back. (Same thing with Star Trek: watched those first two episodes of Voyager and haven’t watched Star Trek since. Er, actually, with a couple spot exceptions, I haven’t wacthed *television* since then. But I don’t blame Voyager for *that*! Now I wait for the TPB, er, the DVD collection instead.)
Separate the two by even less: Bacon, when fried and crumbled, tastes great in a spinach salad.
This discussion reminds me a lot of what I experienced when the New Frontier book “Restoration” came out. It quickly became obvious that opinions were extremely divided and what I also found interesting, very much also along the gender line. There were exceptions, but male readers often had lots of problems with it while female ones (like me) loved it.
I posted my longest review yet, about 20 pages, I think. I even could have written more. I saw so much in this story. But there were some readers who simply wondered where my insights were coming from. They didn`t see what I saw. Well, even now, I can only guess if what I saw in “Restoration” was actually really “there”, as intended by you, or if I simply had a too vivid imagination.
I think that is the key here: NF grabs me emotionally. When I read that series I love, I mentally become part of that world and these characters and very much feel with them. Without this connection, you have much more trouble to “see” such fineries. It has nothing to do with lack of intelligence but, yes, with lack of commitment.
But lack of commitment is not something an author should accuse a fan of. It is one thing to understand how the Fallen Angel thinks and feels, why she acts the way she does, it is another to actually care about her journey. People need to see a reason why to become emotionally involved with her, to care for what becomes of her.
I like Fallen Angel because it is an interesting story. I am intrigued. But, no, saying that I really like it would be lying. The Fallen Angel certainly is on the one hand fascinating but I would have preferred it to see a more likeable main character in this series. I certainly don`t mind shades of grey. The contrary, I find them very attractive in a series and NF is full of them. But at least to me, the main character should at least be predominantly positive. So far, the Fallen Angel is very much borderline.
I haven`t got the latest issue yet but so far, it is getting better but it is not an easy ride. Oh, I understand very well what is going on and I think, it is a very well written series. I think the more important question is, will I also LIKE it in future?
Peter:
First off, I love FALLEN ANGEL. I will continue to buy it until the bitter end. On the otherhand, all of this negative talk makes me apprehensive about recommending a title to others. I learned early on that I will get a lot of dirty looks from friends after recommending a title that is soon cancelled. I suspect that all of this talk may scare away potential readers.
I am sure that the talk about the danger of cancellation can put some people off but it shouldn`t.
My opinion always has been, what counts is the quality of the story, not how long it is. When I buy a book or comic, I want to have the feeling, I am getting a story worth paying for, something I enjoy. With this attitude, limited series should be doomed to fail and that is not the case. And a short story that really grips you can definitely be much more satisfying to read than a big novel you find boring or annoying.
When I like something, I promote it. I do my best to help it to survive because this is also in my interest, being the reader. I just wish I had more time.
But I intend to read the Fallen Angel again, thoroughly, after the arrival of this new issue that has so big surprises that it had been shrink wrapped (I doubt it that this helped sales, but that is just my feeling). Then I will write a review about it and distribute it.
Peter David has a Bacon number of 2 according to the Oracle of Bacon (located at: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/oracle/).
Peter (I) David was in Oblivion 2: Backlash (1996) with Jimmie F. Skaggs
Jimmie F. Skaggs was in Hollow Man (2000) with Kevin Bacon
So there you go…
“As a fan of several of your previous projects and a reader who dropped Fallen Angel after 6 or 7 issues, I think that you are selling yourself short here.”
No, I’m really not.
There have been complexities in my work before, but not real depth. Not really challenges to the reader. This series has depth. And because it’s a series with depth that doesn’t say “by Alan Moore” or “by Neil Gaiman,” I think readers get impatient or bewildered.
You should really be reading it. You should try issue #14 currently on the stands.
PAD
My two cents:
I am not, and never have been, a comic books person. Even as a kid, they never held any interest for me, and as an adult, as you probably have by now gathered, you would be very unlikely to ever find me in a comic book store.
However, I recently found the Fallen Angel trade compilation, and being somewhat familiar with PAD’s prose work, I decided to give it a shot.
And after giving it that shot, I ventured this past weekend into the city, into the big comics shop, and snapped up issues #7-13. Yeah, I enjoyed it that much.
Though I’m a little miffed to learn here now that #14 should have been out on the rack for me as well. Guess it’ll have to wait for my next visit…
“I think what Peter has done here has challenged his readers into making them work a little harder in enjoying the story.
Now, sometimes, the intrigue goes too far. Like the X-Files. I mean, seven years and we still had the same crap over and over again. No one evolved. Nothing changed.
But FA changes… and grows… and it’s not the same crap over and over again.”
I agree with you about “X-Files.” I also think that “Alias” is pushing the whole Rimbaldi thing to the point of making me wonder if there’s EVER gonna be a payoff to it.
But man, that is SO not the case with “Fallen Angel.” I almost wish we could just put out the next four issues right now. It all comes together so perfectly. And I’ll tell you this: Every single guess I’ve seen about the nature of Bete Noire is wrong, but when I do the reveal of it in issue #18–when the major collision of all the plot threads happens–the response is gonna be, “Oh my God, is THAT what it is? That’s GREAT! What happens next?!”
Ideally there will be a next.
PAD
“I respect your enthusiasm for “Fallen Angel”, even if I can’t share it, but “shallow” is not a word I associate with your writing, past or present. So please don’t ask me to.”
Diana, there is no one harder on my work than myself. No harsher judge than me.
Now I never said my other work was “shallow.” You’re just using the opposite of “depth.” But you asked me what this has that the other work lacks, and I’m telling you that it has meanings, subtleties and layers that my previous work doesn’t approach.
And I’m telling you that anyone who claims right now they don’t relate to the “Fallen Angel,” if they stay with the story through 18, you’ll have empathy for her coming out your ears.
PAD
Well Mr. David, I just thought I’d chime in here to say that you’ve done it.
I’ve been out of the comics reading business for a while, and was only recently drawn back in by Joss Whedon’s run on X-Men (yes yes I know, the dreaded mutant characters). Until I started frequenting your site, though, I’d never heard of Fallen Angel.
Today, though, I marched down to my local retailer and asked for a copy of the trade. They’re sold out, but I’ve got one on order now. So fear not, your efforts at promotion have not been in vain.
I look forward to the book’s arrival.
“I gave the book 13 issues to grab me…it just didn’t.”
Boy, did YOU stop short at the wrong time.
Give it to #18. That’s my best shot. If 14-18 don’t turn you around, then fine, but you got off just as the train was starting to accelerate down the tracks.
PAD
I am a fan of Mr. David’s work, and I feel that Fallen Angel is a very good title. It is a shame that DC doesn’t take more risks on series not under the Vertigo [they should, considering the huge financial backing DC has].
I think I might buy the trade for a few of my friends. Maybe they’ll like it.
I think that a lot of policies utilized by Diamond forces retailers to be leery when it comes to ordering new product.
Personally, I think the business would be a lot better off if DCD was forced to break up its gøddámņ monopoly.
Sevan Paris
I only started coming to this board as a fan of New Frontier, I’ve never read any other work of Peter’s. I have to say, this whole argument makes me want to see what the heck you’re all talking about. So I’ll make sure there’s one less copy on the shelf. Good work.
Okay, here’s my two cents.
Mr. David (or Peter, or PAD, whichever you prefer), the one thing that stands out for me is that you have been promoting Fallen Angel #14-#18 like mad here on your site. I can tell that you are passionate about it. Very passionate.
So with that in mind, and with the assurances from the moderators (and Kurt fraggin’ Busiek, no less), I’d say get onto the boards and talk it up. Heck, it’s not a book I buy regularly, and the way you’re promoting it is making me very much go over my comic list and see if I can fit in another $3.00 somewhere. I think that you’re a fan of your own work on this book, and that’s a good thing. And as a fan of yours, I want this series to succeed, darnit, and succeed big. So I’d say go into the CBIA boards.
“And as a fan of yours, I want this series to succeed, darnit, and succeed big. So I’d say go into the CBIA boards.”
I hear what you’re saying, but I’m still skittish about it. If nothing else, I keep thinking, Just what I need: Several hundred retailers telling me “Fallen Angel” doesn’t sell for them and it’s all my fault. I’m not sure how many battle fronts I can deal with.
I do appreciate your going out and supporting the series, though.
PAD
:Every single guess I’ve seen about the nature of Bete Noire is wrong, but when I do the reveal of it in issue #18–when the major collision of all the plot threads happens–the response is gonna be, “Oh my God, is THAT what it is? That’s GREAT! What happens next?!”:
Now, this is me getting giddy!
Whoo Hoo!
Travis
And I’m telling you that anyone who claims right now they don’t relate to the “Fallen Angel,” if they stay with the story through 18, you’ll have empathy for her coming out your ears.
Well… okay, here’s the deal. As a rule, I don’t look back once I’ve dropped a series. Call me an elitist snob, but I can’t really afford to follow books that don’t hold my interest on a regular basis. And if this were any other writer, I wouldn’t even be considering it.
But you’ve never let me down before, Mr. David. And if you say sticking around through issue 18 will change my feelings towards “Fallen Angel”, then you’ve got me until December. But that’s as long as I’ll wait.
To continue the train analogy, for me #14 was that train hitting a major land mine. However, should writing die out as a means to earning a living – God forbid! – you may wish to consider recycling yourself as a salesman.
OK, I’ll grab #15 and see if, from my point of view, the track has been repaired and the things is on its way again. I don’t want ALL the answers, but knowing that SOME of it will make more sense in a few issues does make a difference.
Brian indicated that a store owner would have to be a good business person if their store had managed to stay in business…but that’s simply not true! Many comic stores stay in existance because they’re the only game in town. With no or very little competition, the store owner doesn’t have to do much more than turn on the “Open” sign to get people to come in a buy things.
I live in Toronto where there are literally dozens of comic stores, but in most of the cities I visit on business, there is one, maybe 2 comic stores at best. When those stores are bad and still in business, it’s because there are still comics fans in the area who would rather put up with poor service than give up their hobby.
Hello Mr. David,
Some good news for you entangled with some bad. The good news first, you got yourself a new reader for FALLEN ANGEL. The bad news is I had to go to two stores just to be able to find it!
The first store I go to is the one I currently have a pull/sub list. I had originally bought the FALLEN ANGEL #1 there when it first came out. I had to drop all my comic titles after that due to finances and getting ready for another child. Plus, the store had a worker there that just ticked me off on his comments about women readers, but that is a story for another time. I just started going back to the store a few months ago as it is more convenient than most in this area. A 15 minute drive compared to 30 minutes to an hour drive for the others. Anyway, I tried to see if they had any trades or back issues of FALLEN ANGEL comics to play catch up since I have been reading your web log about how it was one of your most passionate works and had lots of depth, ect. So I wanted to try some more issues before deciding on subbing or not. I couldn
Peter,
I can’t tell you what to do, obviously. But I also can’t imagine, in any form, how participating in the CBIA boards and talking about your upcoming works can be half as scary as getting a high-profile public-venue Elfquest tattoo for the CBLDF. And if nothing else, you know you’ve got Kurt Busiek there, covering your six.
Geez, man, just ask yourself: WWCD? (What would Calhoun Do?) 😉
Grotz.
–R.J.
Dear PAD,
Get on CBIA boards!
just do it, already! you keep saying how great you believe it is, you’ve gone to great pains to defend it against your critics even here, and yet you won’t go on there because you’re afraid of some retailers – most of whom have likely made little or no effort to promote the book – complaining at you because your book isn’t selling? excuse me, but what was your job at Marvel before you became a writer?
come on man, you can do better than that.
Mr. David,
I’m also one of those that gave it a year and decided while it was nicely written it just didn’t resonate. There was no one I cared about. No plot that interested me and the Mysterious seemed more a function of earning the “noir” title then functioning in the story toward any sort of payoff.
No. I don’t want to be spoonfed. Yes. I like to be challenged as a reader. I also like to see growth and change and hints that manifest into something rather then being pulled along with no end in sight and no resolution being offered.
Now you are suggesting that in 14-18 there will be a payoff.
Might I suggest that it might be a more accessible and successful series if you sprinkled some of that through the first year of the run?
I don’t think its realistic (or fair) to think that readers will hold out for a year and a half on a title where nothing happens without being offered something in the short term.
Take Fables for example… they’re almost up to issue 30 and still pulling the reader along with what’s happening back in the fantasy realm, who or what the adversary is… but I’m not furstrated with that series because there’s enough going on around that idea that its still interesting. Characters change. Growth happens. The world evolves.
Issue 12 of Fallen Angel was a great issue. Made me come back for 13 even though I said I’d give it a year and a year only to show me that it was going somewhere. But 13 was back to the “I just don’t care”.
If you want this title to succeed as you seem so passionate about doing then I suggest you offer the reader something other then the Mystery.
A Big Mystery with no end makes the comic a gimmick rather then a story. And no amount of depth will keep a reader tredding water forever if there isn’t even the hope of rescue.
Eventually we drown.
Maybe this was a weeding out process for your readers… who has the stamina to go the long haul. But that strikes me as a good way to get cancelled and a silly thing for a writer wanting a book to continue to think.
I was the last remaining holdout at the comic store I frequent. You had decent sales up through the first three issues and a continuing drop off from there.
Some of your fans will continue buying issues regardless. But if you don’t want to lose more I suggest you not wait for issue 36 for your next ‘revelation’.
Looking forward to your next endeavor.
Mike.
Peter:
One more thing to mention, I agree with all of the others that are urging that you participate in the retailers’ board. You should not be hesitating to take such action. Why? You are currently fighting for FA’s survival. It is being published by a company that seems not to really care if it is being published or not. If it survives another year, it will have to be due to the steps you take to ensure its survival. Pushing the book among retailers is the most important step you can take. If the retailers start pushing the title, it is more likely to reach new customers.
Other steps to consider. Redesign the web site to blatantly plug FA. From reading the comments made by just some of the people on this thread, it is clear that you have some viewers of this web site who are here because of your fiction. These non comic readers are potential new readers of FA.
Put FA #14 up on DC’s website a week before the next issue is due. Link it to here. The latest issue was one of the best.
Good luck.
“Take Fables for example… they’re almost up to issue 30 and still pulling the reader along with what’s happening back in the fantasy realm, who or what the adversary is… but I’m not furstrated with that series because there’s enough going on around that idea that its still interesting. Characters change. Growth happens. The world evolves.”
And it gets constant promotion, instant trade paperbacks, and a built in readership of “Vertigo” fans. But putting that aside, the brilliant thing about “Fables” is that you are emotionally invested in every single character as of issue #1. “Fallen Angel” introduces a cast of new characters in a completely new environment and, as such, takes time. “Fables” introduces a cast of instantly recognizable characters, who you have pleasant childhood memories of, in New York City. It’s not exactly fair to compare the two. And “Y” similarly has an instantly identifiable trope: Last man on earth. Again, instant sympathy. There’s nothing wrong with that. Hopefully someday I too will come up with a series concept that would enable me to hit the ground running with reader identification. In the meantime, there’s “Fallen Angel”…in which there has been character growth, change happening, evolution of the world of Bete Noire…and seven complete, beginning to end stories or story arcs in fourteen issues.
PAD
Peter, I’m sure you’ve read this many times already, but I also wanted to encourage you to join the CBIA. It is the best place on-line for creators, publishers & retailer to communicate, no matter what the message may be. Many of your fellow creators belong, and I feel very confident in saying that both they & us retailers have benefited.
Derek F
Peter,
>
But you should be thinking, “Just what I need: several hundred retailers whom I can take my case to and explain things like how issue 14-18 are critical to capturing readers, ect.”
I’ve never seen any creator taken to task there over sales… only discussion on how to improve sales, emphasis on positivity.
You have said many things here that would help me sell copies. Why make me hunt them down, when bringing that message to me would help us both, and many others who could help put your books in readers hands. Address story issues, address cancellation issues, and tell us how to best market this book.
I urge you to use every tool available to help this book’s sales, including what I feel could be the most important tool of all.
“In the meantime, there’s “Fallen Angel”…in which there has been character growth, change happening, evolution of the world of Bete Noire…and seven complete, beginning to end stories or story arcs in fourteen issues. “
And in all that time I didn’t like any of the characters, (Funny thing is I didn’t realise that until this thread). Preacher was a disturbing read and yet I still liked Jesse, Tulip and even Cassedy. Same goes for the other titles you mentioned, I like Yorrick, I like Wolf and Snow, I don’t like anyone in Fallen Angel.
Maybe you’re right and I’ll have a real affinity for Lee by the issue 18, but I’m a fan of your writing, which is why I’m still reading it.
My wife just said it ‘Who wants to read about people you couldn’t care less about?’. Maybe that’s a reason no one is buying it.
Peter, if you do come up with one of those ‘instant winner’ ideas, please consider taking it to one of the independent companies.
Both Marvel and DC have shown less than proper consideration to your abilities. I say screw ’em. If you are only going to sell 10,000 copies, you may as well money on the book.