The first of three done-in-one issues, issue 12 takes us back to the first meeting between the woman called Lee and the man called Doctor Juris, in the throbbing heat of Mardi Gras. Whad’ja think?
Oh, and for those interested, there’s a detailed interview about “Fallen Angel” over on Newsarama.com which also features covers for future issues.
PAD
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well, I heard you read the story at the I-con, and I liked it back then. Does that count?
Normally I don’t post here until I’ve read the issue but I want to coment on the interview at Newsarama. I thought it was very well done and I’m glad that Fallen Angel got some well deserved attention.
Enjoyed the issue a lot. Made me wanna go to New Orleans this weekend, heh. I think I’m finally getting my head around the book a little bit. At the very least i’m learning to enjoy the vagueness and ambiguity.
I’ve subscribed to the book at my local comics shop (Sci Fi City) and I’m not sorry.
However, I’m a little uncomfortable about whether the baddie in this book deserved death in that particular form. A straight decapitation would have been more humane. Especially since the evidence was specious.
And I now begin to understand how Bete Noire can be so strange. It’s like the Gotham City of No Man’s Land, only nobody can read the “do not enter” signs posted around the place. It is not part of the United States. The absence of federal law, which would have decended hard about many of these incidents, is a clear indication.
Perhaps Bete Noire is a kind of Tiajuana, caught between the US and…well, the ocean, beyond the touch of federal law but within the reach of American citizens. Who are too dumb to realize they live in Hellmouth.
I really liked the story. I personally think that Fallen Angel works better with done-in-one stories as opposed to longer stories. More in depth info is available at my website, FourColorExplosion.com.
The only problem I had with the comic was that it just seems odd to me that with all the adult language floating around, there’s still an avoidance of explicit nudity, particularly given that two different scenes in the comic had lovemaking in them. I’m not looking for pornography, but I just think that either more or less should have been shown, and the same with the language.
Gave it 7 issues, not my cuppa. Sorry.
I really enjoyed this issue. I enjoyed all the allusions to how Bette Noir is like a little slice of Hëll in America. I think you can only get there if you “belong” there. I’m also interested in learning more about the “Hierarchy.” And another nice bit for those who enjoy reading this title as “The Further Adventures of Linda Danvers.” Thanx for the great book. 🙂
I really liked this issue. The accurate portrayal of the French Quarter during Mardi Gras is greatly appreciated. I grew up and currently live in Louisiana and one of my major pet peeves is the constant inaccurate portrayal of Louisiana in general and New Orleans in particular in popular media. The depiction of New Orleans on Mardi Gras in this issue was so good I would not doubt it if either you (PAD) or the artist (I forget his name) had been there for “research;” either that or you used very good reference material.
Another thing I found interesting was Doctor Juris’ comments about having only one day off and working for a hierarchy. The fact that his one day off is Mardi Gras supports Dolf’s theory about Doctor Juris and Lee representing the opposing forces of order and chaos, respectively.
Cheers,
Michael Garcia
Fallen Angel 12
Spoilers
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Spoilers
I loved, absolutely loved this issue. It seems that the Judge has some sort of psi powers when he “suggested” that the police leave them alone and go away in the alley sequence. I hope that you will explore that aspect more in future issues.
I have to disagree with an earlier post where it was pointed out that profanity is rampant in the book but nudity is not.
First this is a mature readers title, and look at the story context it was Mardi Gras…a hedonism experience…
Secondly, in your face nudity is less effectively than the hint or suggestion of nudity within the comic book medium.
I think that Peter and the artist did a fantastic job and I can’t wait to see what direction the next story arc is going to take.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Okay, here’s my question: when Juris got zapped back home at the stroke of midnight, did he appear in his office naked, or clothed? And if the former, was there anyone waiting for him? 🙂
I liked it. I’ve liked the entire run of FA so far, although it has been confusing at parts. The only question I have, is will there ever be anything in it that ties it into the rest of the DC universe? Not looking for a crossover, but there are quite a few darker villians I would love to see show up, or even a reference made to another hero or villian? Something that lets us know this still takes place in the DC universe? Unless this book doesn’t, like the focus line?
Jerry
I suppose I should just hold my tongue yet another month. But I can’t.
PAD, I would just as soon have a book you’re
writing on the stands as any other writer out there.
But I find Fallen Angel a difficult read.
Not because of the writing, but because of the
art.
There’s just nothing there that makes me want to
turn the page.
A lot of really nice covers, though.
–Ed
Enjoyed the issue a lot. I agree with a previous poster that single issue stories are a very nice change of pace and work well here. I also think that David Lopez gets better every month.
A while back on an open question thread I asked why artists often draw people shaking left hands. PAD said he hadn’t noticed but there it is on page 2, panel 1. Can someone please ask Mr. Lopez if that’s the way he drew it (and why?) or does it have to do with the comic book process.
Very curious.
I’ve loved every issue of FA, but for some reason, this one really sang for me. I loved the interaction between Lee and Juris, I loved the hints of the new mystery of Juris’s mysterious bosses, and the whole scene with Lee’s arm in the wall was comic gold. One of my fave issues you’ve written this year. Kudos.
This issue is the first one of the series where I think I have everything figured out. The purpose of the characters, what Bet
I kind of feel like Fallen Angel is like the first half of Alias (TV) Season 3. Everyone in the book knows way more than I do, and instead of making me “interested curious,” it makes me annoyed and confused. In your Newsarama interview, PAD, you mention Wolverine and the long-running mystery of his origin. In that particular case, I agree with you. Knowing the Howlett name and family history has done absolutely nothing for the character. The difference between Logan and Lee is, IMO, that the mystery that was Logan was initially more of an afterthought that developed into a big question in readers’ minds, whereas the mystery that is Lee is presented as a “big” question.
What that means is most easily explained in terms of Wolverine, I think. He wasn’t originally supposed to be that popular of a character, correct? But he had a clearly defined personality and backstory from the start. Yes, it was a truncated backstory, but it was all the character needed. “I’m Logan, and I used to work for the Canadian government. I’m short and angry, and I have a mutant healing factor and nifty claws. Oh, by the way, I’m willing to kill people in a code-approved comic.” Then, just as Wolverine’s popularity really starts to rise (and as his one-dimensional character begins to deepen), all of a sudden we get the Hudsons coming in and we get the story about them finding Logan and nursing him back to health. As he becomes more complex, his backstory becomes more complex, and so readers who have begun to invest interest in the character are rewarded with a glimpse into the foundations of a character that they already know and understand. For many years, Wolverine did not so much change as he deepened. In fact, I’d say that the first real beginnings of change in the character were occurring right around the time of Hulk 340 (or was it 341?), when he guest-starred.
What does that mean in terms of Lee? It means that it feels to me like the book is trying to go in all directions at once. Instead of starting the reader with a few stories where Lee is basically a static character who only seems to change–but really deepens–because of revealed information, the reader is asked to follow not only the “deepening” of the character but also the change of the character. The reader had no real investment in Lee because we were never given a solid starting point of reference for her. I feel like her moral ambiguity was not so much developed as it was shoved in our faces. “Look! She’s ambiguous!” And even then, I haven’t gotten a solid feeling for any kind of definable moral center or central motivation, so I find it difficult to judge her actions in any way, shape, or form. Instead of looking more deeply into her character because I’m interested in her character, I find myself looking into her character because I think you want me to, that that’s the point of the book, but it feels like I’m reading the book as an assignment, at that point. “No, no, no–It’s supposed to be confusing–look here at this part!”
Now, I didn’t really like the last third of your Hulk run, either, when I was reading it. I quit the book for a while, then came back for a while, etc. I recently made a point of tracking down all the gaps in that particular collection. I took a couple of weeks to reread the whole thing, and the last third made a lot more sense in one sitting. I really enjoyed it–all of it–when it was all put together. I say this because, for better or for worse, I feel like your perspective on a book and what makes it interesting doesn’t always come through month-to-month. I think it shines through clearly (most times–my jury’s still out on Captain Marvel, Volume 2) on a “trade paperback” time scale. Supergirl was very much like that for me. With some notable exceptions (vs. Steel, the “deaf kids” issue), that book wasn’t all that great month-to-month. It had its moments, but it was okay. But the reason it was on the bottom of my pile (a place of high honor in the Qel-Droma household, reserved for Alias by Bendis, Queen and Country, Preacher, etc.) was the payoff it delivered in the long term. Supergirl stands out in my mind as one of my absolute favorite comic book series ever, and I’ve been reading since 1983, so I think that says something.
So, as far as Fallen Angel 12 goes, I thought it was okay. I liked learning a little more about Juris, but I have to wonder why we didn’t get this story before the last arc. Juris’ “break-up” with Lee meant very little to me before, but it means more to me now. As a pretty faithful PAD reader, that’s probably okay in the long run, because I’ll end up going back and rereading all of FA at some point and it will all make more sense to me. I’ll end up liking the book as a whole more, and I’ll be more likely to keep buying. But for the person who either doesn’t like you or doesn’t care, I think that the placement of #12 would be almost terminally confusing.
I know you say in the Newsarama interview that
I have not been able to track down a copy thus far. However, since no one’s mentioned it yet, I will say that Randy Lander of at The Fourth Rail gave the issue 9 out of 10.
Haven’t picked up the issue yet (will probably do so today), but I did want to comment on the somewhat ironic timing of this post and the mention of the Newsarama article in which PAD refers to “Casablanca”, given recent discussions.
Do you know who was originally considered for the lead in that film? Ronald Reagan.
Rick
Actually, Rick, the good folks over at snopes.com, in honor of the late ex-pres, reran their article on that subject. Apparently, it was common in those days for a studio to keep a star’s name in the papers by dropping leaks that so-and-so was being considered for a part in such-and-such a project. In point of fact, no one except Bogart was ever considered to play Rick (no relation, I’m sure). The press release hinting at Reagan’s possible involvement with the flick merely said that he was up for “a role” in “Casablanca”, not “a lead role”, and in the end it would appear that even that was mere hyperbole.
On the other hand, I don’t think anyone ever even considered casting Bogart opposite a chimpanzee… 🙂
Jonathan,
I’m not aware of an article by Snopes.com. I actually read about it in a Sunday magazine article from the 1980s or early 1990s (which I still have). I’d have to dig it out and re-read it to see what it had to say about how serious they were considering Reagan. The main focus of the article, as I recall, was how difficult it would be to imagine anyone but Bogie playing Rick, but I recall it did address that Reagan had been considered for that part.
Rick
This issue proves to me that the one-shot issues are my favorite of Fallen Angel. Both multi-part arcs felt a bit flat to me, honestly, but the 3 one-offs were all wonderful. I’m looking forward to the next two, then maybe the next 4-parter will intrigue me.
“The only question I have, is will there ever be anything in it that ties it into the rest of the DC universe?”
Read issue two, there is a hint there. There were also some “is Lee, Linda?” references. One example is when she starts saying her name, and then stops. Another example is the “I was at Mardi Gras last year, but I didn’t like the company,” thing.
I’d just like to add my voice to those that have said the one-and-done issues have all shined. No offense intended… because I’ve been reading your work since you first started on Hulk… and that book certainly worked with the longer storylines… But for whatever reason… so far anyway… Fallen Angel has worked for me in the one-and-done issues and not worked for me during the longer stories. Can’t really explain it… But I was ready to drop it before this issue and now I’ll stick around for another four issues at least.
Kevin
Will be reading it later, but Randy Lander over at the Fourth Rail gives it high marks..
http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/snapjudgments/060704/snapshots.shtml
I loved it. Easily one of my favorite issues of the series.
It always makes me laugh when Lee takes people literally, instead of figuratively.
Loved, that when Juris asked her what her name was, she replied “L–“. She almost said Linda. Oddly enough, though I recognized the.. similarities between her and Linda, I didn’t catch the name.
Excellent issue.
Is it just me– or is anyone else getting sick & dámņ tired of the phrase, “Not my cuppa.”?!?
This phrase really needs to go– NOW.
And why is it that almost every time Peter notes a new issue of FA has been released on his blog and asks for comments… One or more people write something like, “I gave it 7 issues. Sorry.” or “Sorry, I gave it 10 issues but I gave it up.”
In his most recent post, Peter is asking what you thought about FA #12– not when you dropped the series.
I think it is ABSURD that people use these types of questions as excuses to remind the man when they stopped reading his work. What do these type of posts prove– especially when they are NOT accompanied by ANY attempt of meaningful, constructive criticism?
“Not my cuppa.” just does NOT cut it in my world.
If you just HAVE to say you dropped FA– say why… Otherwise these types of posts are meaningless and waste everybody’s time.
P.S. Eric, I am NOT writing this to criticize ONLY you and mean NOTHING personal towards you whatsoever… Yours just happened to be the most recent post to offend my logic sensibilities– especially when you respond to a question about FA #12 by saying you dropped it with issue #7.
I love this book. I get sucked in more and more with each issue. It’s a compelling story. I don’t understand why everybody insists on knowing everything about a character. I don’t mind a good mystery. (Look at Sandman: Neil Gaiman didn’t tell us everything up front. For that matter, what about Bendis’ Alias? He didn’t tell the origin story until about 20 issues in. Fallen Angel deserves to at *least* get that far! Why’s everybody so impatient?) I think this is the kind of book that would develop a strong following in trade paperback, not unlike Sandman or the Ultimate books.
“Is it just me– or is anyone else getting sick & dámņ tired of the phrase, “Not my cuppa.”?!?”
Gotta say, since I learned that phrase from reading PAD, I think’s it’s pretty appropirate…
Guess the phrase “not my cuppa” just isn’t your “cuppa”
(not that I’m sure what cuppa is…I assume short for “cup of tea”)
Not only is Fallen Angel #12 out, so is the new book Comics Prose. It features stories by Kurt Busiek, Max Allan Collins Jeff Millar, Dennis O’Neill, Paul Dini, and of course PAD!
That was a great interview over on Newsarama too!
What did I think of FALLEN ANGEL #12? Well, I loved it. This one off story made the characters more approachable so from that viewpoint the story was a sucess.
By the way, I cast my vote to moving the series to Vertigo.
By the way, is it possible that Peter is playing games with us about Lee’s identity? Perhaps Lee is Buzz?
Fallen Angel continues to be a very quick read. A good read, granted, and one of only a few monthlies that I pick up. But it is a title that I breeze through.
I brought this concern up about two months ago, and I’m bringing it up again because I think it’s an import aspect in today’s market. Comics seem to be getting shorter and shorter, while the prices keep going up. It is harder and harder to justify buying comics monthly when they entertain me for a matter of minutes.
When I raised this issue before, Peter said that his focus was on writing comics that could be reread. That’s appreciated, and certainly at the top of my criteria for picking a series to read. However, as important as quality is, there’s something to be said for quantity.
I would guess that the average wordcount of a comic has decreased in the last few years, and that it is simply the norm now. I think a big part of that is caused by the OTHER trend that comics have been going, which is when there’s an emphasis on trade paperbacks. A lot of writers seem to write more for that medium than for a monthly distribution, and I think it’s hurting the industry in the long run.
Peter, in your Newsarama interview, you talk about the dangers of people that will ‘wait for the trade.’ I find myself doing it more and more. It’s often not because I wait to see if a series is any good, but because a trade seems to be the appropriate format of the story. For example, when I picked up Ultimate Spider-Man as a monthly, I always breezed through an issue, and didn’t feel I got what I wanted to out of the story. When I started picking it up in trades, it was a much better read, and I enjoyed it much more and felt that my money was well spent. I think it is because I was reading it in the format that it was primarily intended for. I get the feeling (right or wrong) that you’ve moved more towards that style as well. As a result, I’m less and less inclined to buy Fallen Angel as a monthly, because it seems that it would be more enjoyable in a trade format.
To make a final point, I’ve heard a lot of good things about She-Hulk. I’ve heard that it is clever, well written, and pretty unique. I’ve also heard that it’s packed with content, and that it is a much longer read than most comics on the market. That’s a selling point that people have used, and I think it’s an important one to remember.
Finally, I agree that Fallen Angel really deserves the Vertigo imprint, and I hope that DC makes the decision to make that move.
I hope you take this as feedback from a longtime fan of your work who really wants your titles to succeed.
Josh
I did indeed love this issue, enough that I’ll almost certainly be picking up the trade next week when I had decided to probably let it pass for a few months…
But I have to say that what Eric Qel Droma had to say is almost exactly how I feel about the ambiguity of the series, and the Newsarama interview where PAD revealed that he might leave things this ambiguous forever *almost* reversed my decision on the trade again. Eric’s analysis is spot on, and worth consideration.
Well, except for about Alias Season Three. I *loved* this season, and don’t understand the vitriol that some of the fans have had for it. But that’s neither here nor there. 🙂
(Blast it, I haven’t had the time to read all of the posts. But I read the interview though)
“Since we got slapped with the same label as a Vertigo book, I
I got it this afternoon, along with the final issue of “Bone” and just wrote a post a few minutes ago about the issue and the series (“Fallen Angel”, not “Bone”), and just as I sent it, by connection went down. Said post was apparently lost.
I don’t feel like re-typing, so I’ll simply say I liked it. One thing I did say on my lost post was that I need to re-read the entire series again. When I do, I can better evaluate my feelings about it, overall.
Rick
I read issue 12 this morning. I thought it was one of the best issues yet. It doesn’t matter to me whether the stories are Done-In-One or multiple issue stories. They are all good.
I do have a question about one thing in the art. On page 16 of the story, a woman is shown wearing what appear to be large pasties. They say “For mature readers only” on them. Yet on page 8 of the story, the same two “offensive” objects are shown uncovered. Was this a joke by you and/or David Lopez on page 16, or did editorial make the change?
Loved the fact that when Juris’ day off was done, he was gone. Twas the ultimate interuptus!
Alan Coil said:
” do have a question about one thing in the art. On page 16 of the story, a woman is shown wearing what appear to be large pasties. They say “For mature readers only” on them. Yet on page 8 of the story, the same two “offensive” objects are shown uncovered. Was this a joke by you and/or David Lopez on page 16, or did editorial make the change?”
It woukldn’t surprise me if the pasties were an actualMardi Gras costume; somewhere online there’s a pic from a previous Mardi Gras of two women in t-shirts with oval cutouts and pasties making cute little Mickey and Minnie Mouse faces out of their chests…
Another great issue of FA for this month. The dialogue interplay between Lee and Juris was so good it made me want to see these two reconcile their differences and GET IT ON some more!
And as far as these arguments for ‘providing more clarity’ goes, I’m AGAINST it, as this just dictates exactly how one should perceive the noirish atmosphere. Just USE YOUR IMAGINATIONS a little more, guys, and you can figure out any story ambiguity for YOURSELVES. Literal explanations just take all the mystery and intrigue out of the noir formula.
Whoa, calm down insideman. First talk about wasting time when on a message board is well..absurd. Second my post was a sentence and yours was a rant and gave no comments to FA 12 either, how long did my sentnce take you to read? Talk about hypocrisy. With the ending of Captain Marvel and when I dropped FA, the only PAD I read is this board, and wanted to convey that to PAD, I should give more info than that sure. FA was boring and I felt I was waiting for something that just wasn’t happening and had no concrete direction. I liked the Kaluta covers better than the Stelfreeze, but if he’s looking for new readers they should try and move to away from iconic covers and try to show a bit of what’s going on inside. Also that was the first and only time a typed ‘cuppa’ and the only person I ever saw use it was PAD so take it up with him.
insideman & eric – yes, the phrase ‘not my cuppa’ is British, shortened and mangled from ‘not my cup of tea.’ I guess it’s supposed to be a friendlier way of saying ‘No sir, I don’t like it.’
The expression that bugs me is ‘rule of thumb.’
O.K., it
What if Bogie had been president?
Best…First Lady…ever!
I enjoyed the current issue more than I have some of the continuing story lines. Thinking about it, I believe the reason is that the writing in the strip is very dense — not in a *bad* way, but simply in the sense that there’s a lot that happens in any given issue and it’s not necessarily easy to pick up the plot threads from the previous time out a month later.
I don’t know what the right solution to this problem is or if one even exists. (“Wait for the trade” is, of course, not on my list of solutions, since I’d like to see the book continue. “Make a separate stack for each storyline” so I can read it when it’s complete *would* solve *my* problem, but I don’t know if that would help the overall sales situation.)
And writing stories that are “done in one” and that are this dense has got to be really difficult. OTOH, it would be a real novelty in the marketplace, which might be good.
Recognizing that the dynamics of TV are different from the dynamics of comics, maybe the solution is to emulate some of the TV dramas (I’m thinking of Babylon 5 here) where — for the most part — an episode (or an issue) has a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end, but the overall ball of the plot moves down the field. (And, yes, I know that there *were* episodes that weren’t constructed that way, but the overall feeling was more like that than most comics deliver.)
Does this make any sense or am I just wandering down a blind alley?
A possible solution to the left-handshake, at least for this issue’s instance. Both men have drinks in their right hands, and it’s customary to use the left hand to shake another’s hand if one’s right hand is clutching something. While it’s rare that a person is in such a hurry that he can’t switch a drink from his right to his left hand to offer a handshake, courtesy dictates that if someone does offer his left hand to you to shake that you respond with your left hand. Obviously, if you have something in your right hand, and someone’s extended his right hand for you to shake, then you should quickly switch that item to your left hand.
(Of course, in a lot of manga–especially the “flipped” or “mirrored” versions, such as the American translations of books like “Mai” or “Ranma 1/2” or “Crying Freeman”–handshakes will look left-handed but were originally drawn in the “standard” right-handed style. That’s the same reason there are so many people holding pistols and guns in their “left” hands.)
A possible solution to the left-handshake, at least for this issue’s instance….
Or…could we be being subtly told that everyone in the book is…sinister?
BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!
Peter,
This is slightly OT, but I was glancing at Thursday’s USA today and they did a “bubbling under the top 50” booklist. Your Spiderman novelization was at 109. Congrats.
Ðámņ you Peter, why must you torment me so? Just when I was starting thinking that Lee is not Linda, you place another seed of doubt in my mind by insinuating that her real name begins with L. Ðámņ you!
Oh, and btw, I’m just kidding about dámņìņg you (just so you don’t mistake my tone). Keep up the good work!
Brian
As to the left-hand thing — i seem to recasll noticing that all Muppet guitarists are left-handed…
Mr. DiBello, if you’ll kindly step over to this woodchipper and lean in to take a GOOD look….
Mr. DiBello, if you’ll kindly step over to this woodchipper and lean in to take a GOOD look….
Sure thing…hey, I can see Steve Buscemi from here!
Enjoyed the issue. Enjoyed it so much, I wish it didn’t end where it did. I wanted more!
I have to agree w/ a lot of Eric Qel-Droma’s statements. Really spot on.
Taking PAD’s comments about “The Prisoner” in the Newsarama article, I do believe that Lee could be Linda even though there’ll never be an admission to it.
Looking forward to #13.