Bush, in his speech last night, said something I firmly agree with. He said the war in Iraq represents a struggle between two visions, “one of tyranny and murder, the other of liberty and life.”
The true tragedy of the Bush Administration is that he doesn’t realize the rest of the world is increasingly uncertain which one we are. We are an occupying force, mistreating its captives, claiming that we’re restoring control of the nation’s fate to itself while making clear that 130,000 troops are staying right where they are, with more to come if we decide it’s needed.
What’s frightening is that more than 40% of Americans still don’t grasp that.
By the way, check out this link. It’s eerily hypnotic. I think it’d make a great screensaver.
PAD
• 
In that 40% is “Poison Elves” writer Drew Hayes who, in the editorial of his latest issue, says it’s okay to bomb Iraqies since they blew up the World Trade Centres. I don’t know why people haven’t learned the difference between Osama and Sadam. I can’t stop my head from hanging low and shaking from side to side.
“In that 40% is “Poison Elves” writer Drew Hayes who, in the editorial of his latest issue, says it’s okay to bomb Iraqies since they blew up the World Trade Centres. I don’t know why people haven’t learned the difference between Osama and Sadam. I can’t stop my head from hanging low and shaking from side to side.”
They haven’t learned it because of the deceit of George W. Bush, who so completely linked Saddam and terrorism in the public’s mind that 71% of the American public came to believe that it was Iraqis who flew the planes, rather than our “allies,” the Saudis. I haven’t read Drew’s editorial, but I certainly hope it isn’t as simplistic as you make it out to be.
PAD
The other thing that they don’t seem to get is that this “war” in Iraq was nothing but a smoke screen to boost Bush’s sagging poll numbers to begin with. If there had been WMDs in Iraq and we had found them, I’d probably feel differently, but none were found and I can’t help feeling that the whole of the US has just had the mother of ALL pieces of wool pulled over their eyes.
I wonder if all this is just divine punishment by God, in response to Bush and the GOP staling the 2000 elections. “Okay, George, you can be President, but I’ll make it so your Administration goes down in history as one of the most despicable and deceitful ever, and your name will be scorned by all freedom-loving Americans for seven generations.”
Of course, that also means God has to give us a President Kerry who will save our hash from George’s mistakes… Hmmmm…
Posted by Marcus Keller at May 25, 2004 11:47 AM
“The other thing that they don’t seem to get is that this “war” in Iraq was nothing but a smoke screen to boost Bush’s sagging poll numbers to begin with”
Luckily, that doesn’t seem to be working in the long run. From what I hear on the news lately, his numbers seem to be going down the worse our troubles in Irag become. You are right, however, in that people seem to forget that no WMD were found (that old binary shell not withstanding), and that 9-11 and Iraq have no connection.
After the last month, I think most other countries are fairly certain what we are. It’ll be slower for Americans and some will never get there, especially with Bush still using the same false justifications.
The bigger question is, what happened to WMD’s that Saddam did have at one time? We know he had them long ago when he used them on his own people, but where did they go and when?
Be a horrible place to find an Al-Qaeda connection, at Saddam’s Garage-WMD Sale…
I wouldn’t worry about it. All we know that Saddam used were gas artillery shells that would now be long past their expiration date. It takes a lot of artillery shells being fired to make a WMD.
Well, if anyone is still confused about which side is which, here’s a simple little test to figure it out:
Imagine the Iraqi society that would be the IDEALRESULT of the US invasion if the war planners in the administration had their way…
Now imagine the Iraqi society that would be the IDEAL RESULT if the insurgents (or freedom fighters if you are Ted Rall and/or drunk) win.
No. Brain. Er.
Yes, but you will never see the “Ideal Result” of anything, as everyone has their own version of an “IDEAL RESULT”.
America may be closer to an IDEAL RESULT than Iraq was, but it still any anywhere near IDEAL.
Imagine the Iraqi society that would be the IDEALRESULT of the US invasion if the war planners in the administration had their way…
Problem is, is that we don’t have to imagine it…we’re getting it right now, thanks to the incompetence of those executing the “plans”.
Right now, all I see are bunglers everywhere.
Might as well get my 2 cents in before there are 5000 posts which say “Democrats Bad, Republicans good” or vice versa…
As Lewis Black said: “The Democratic Party is a Party of No Ideas. The Republican Party is a Party of Bad Ideas.” In other words, blah to them all.
On the right track now… I’m a believer that the ends do not justify the means. You can’t say “But he was a bad guy, so it was okay in the end that he was framed for the one crime he did not commit.” That’s not justice.
So when people say, “Well, they didn’t find WMDs or true links to terrorism and Saddam, but he was a bad guy… so it’s okay…”
It’s not okay. If Dubya came out and said, “Saddam is a criminal, has committed many human rights violations, etc. etc…. that’s why we’re going to get him.” Then I would understand… may not like it, but I would understand.
Unfortunately, that was never said.
And so what that leads me to believe is that this Admin has a view of the Ends justify the Means.
And we know, that never works.
Unless you’re the punisher… or some dark super hero… right?
Whatever
Travis
Robert Jung: God doesn’t have to lift a metaphorical finger to mess up our political system, nor does He need to “create” a “divine punishment” for us. We’ve taken care of all of that for ourselves.
Bill Mulligan: Wouldn’t our government’s IDEAL RESULT be an Iraqi puppet government that would give us a foothold in the region? Disregarding that for a second, even if our “IDEAL RESULT” was a good thing and that’s what we intended to do, doesn’t it seem now that we’re traveling down that proverbial well paved road to Hëll?
Eric
sorry for the double post
What’s even more bizzare is that Americans think the media coverage of Iraqi prisoner abuse is ‘excessive’… at least, according to 70% of FoxNews viewers. What, would the Foxies rather be watching the Berg beheading? I just don’t get it.
And to be honest, I’ve given up trying to convince people that Saddam and Iraq were not responsible for 9/11… I’d settle for my friends and neighbors here in the deep South to stop referring to Iraqis as ‘Iraqians.’ So sad…
That OTHER John Byrne
I wouldn’t worry about the results of a Fox News poll. After all, 70% of Fox viewers probably believe that the anchors on Fox News don’t have to practice saying “Fair and Balanced” with a straight face.
Bush doesn’t fail to understand how the rest of the world sees the US, he just doesn’t think it matters.
As for the WMD, that justification was chosen because the administration decided it was the most “saleable.” They couldn’t justify a direct connection to 9/11, so they settled for innuendo. Mention 9/11 and Saddam in the same sentence enough times even without directly connecting them will create a link in people’s minds.
Welcome to the era of war by focus group.
one thing bush said last night that bothered me was something along the lines of the actiions of the enemy were violent, brutal, but instructional
i just dont think it s a good idea for the president to suggest we learned any thing from
the deathof either our soldiers or iraqis
that almost makes it sound like a good thing
bad choice of words mr president
Pray tell, why the hëll should I care what the world THINKS of the US?
I mean, really, I don’t see what the obsession the left has with the PERCEPTION(and that’s all it is, not reality) the rest of the world has of the US. It’s a fool’s game to care what the rest of the world thinks about the most powerful country in it. There’s always going to be people who question our motives. I don’t care about those people, nothing would ever convince them of us being anything other than The Great Satan.
I find it laffable that Kerry would play to such a stupid, vacuous stance by claiming foreign leaders wanted him elected. What a joke. I’m supposed to take the opinion of the French or Germans into account when I vote?
Screw that. If Kerry wins it will only be because he’s Not Bush. And it’ll be as big a disaster as Bush has been. If not worse because Kerry will likely do things that will eventually lead to an act of terrorism that will make 9/11 look like a cake walk. He’ll get lax, just like Clinton was, he’ll let the perception shift convince him the world really doesn’t resent us, and then, after years of planning we’ll all be wondering what the hëll happened when a major city goes kaboom.
I don’t like Bush. But the idea of a democrat who listens to the French and Germans bothers me more.
Everybody keeps saying there is *NO* connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. And they keep saying it enough times that they believe it. It may be true, but not for want of trying, as this article from 1999 shows:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,314700,00.html
Picking on Fox News and Bush
How the U.S. is preceived worldwide does affect us. Here are a couple of examples:
Economically – If The U.S. is seen negatively, traders / investors won’t invest in the U.S.. This weakens the value of the dollar against other currencies, which means that it takes more money to buy the same amount of goods. A weakened dollar means higher prices.
Defense: When a real threat arises, America will find itself without any real allies, as the current administration has pìššëd øff most of them.
Safety – The more people who see America as a threat, the more danger Americans are in.
I agree that we will never convince everyone that we are a good people, but that doesn’t mean that we have to go around antagonizing people & increasing the numbers of those who hate and / or distrust us.
Lastly – I love the screensaver & will probably download it. Also, check out the 404 error page on the site.
My one statement about Fox News and the media, if you think Fox News is bias and all other media isn
Everybody keeps saying there is *NO* connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. And they keep saying it enough times that they believe it. It may be true, but not for want of trying, as this article from 1999 shows
Funny how the very article you cite as proof of a connection states that bin Laden specifically rejected Saddam’s offer for asylum.
Peter…why do you hate America? JUST KIDDING!
Lets just hope America dishes out the same result to Bush that she has given every President that has failed to win the popular vote.
All I have to say about the Bush Administration is that I’m going on a low carb diet come November….
NO C-heney
NO A-shcroft
NO R-umsfeld
NO B-ush
and “Absolutely > NO RICE!”
What struck me about Bush’s speech last night is his lack of historical awareness. Anyone that threatens the occupation of Iraq is a terrorist, plain and simple. Sure, we’re turning over the reigns of government to the new Governing Coalition on June 30th, but no one the US doesn’t like is making that list. And there is no date for elections. And we’re maintaining troop levels, supposedly for the health and welfare of the troops that are there. (Never mind the fact that they’d be safer, and the Iraqis happier, if, y’know, they were somewhere else…like HOME!)
So if you don’t like being governed by another country, and take action against it, you’re a terrorist. Except, by that definition, we are a nation founded on terrorism. Boston Tea Party? Terrorism. Revolutionary War? Terrorism. George Washington? Terrorist. John Hancock? Filthy terrorist. Why, how dare they want the country for themselves just because they live there!
This isn’t about turning a blind eye to the killers of Nick Berg, or the carbombers, or those who choose violence to express their political ways. This is about realizing that we can’t do any more good in Iraq. We kicked Hussein out and killed his kids. Great, but now what? More Iraqis have died violently since the end of armed combat per month than under Hussein’s reign. We’re doing more harm than good now. Time to go home.
Weeeeeee! School is almost over! Let’s fisk the board!
“America may be closer to an IDEAL RESULT than Iraq was”
“May be”? MAY??? Yeah, I guess that might be in doubt. True, in Iraq people were fed into paper shredders for espousing unpopular political beliefs but in the U.S. of A. we have dissidents being FORCED to stand hundreds of yards away from the president!
“Wouldn’t our government’s IDEAL RESULT be an Iraqi puppet government that would give us a foothold in the region? Disregarding that for a second, even if our “IDEAL RESULT” was a good thing and that’s what we intended to do, doesn’t it seem now that we’re traveling down that proverbial well paved road to Hëll?”
I guess we will find out. If we allow free elections by January, as Bush stated, then I guess the puppet government plot is just a left wing fantasy.
As for the other point I’m not certain that eliminating fascist dictatorships armed to the teeth is any more of a fast trip to hëll than letting them stand (or, as our humanitarian European allies did, profit handsomely from dealing with them)but I’m willing to give it a try.
“I just don
“Sure, we’re turning over the reigns of government to the new Governing Coalition on June 30th, but no one the US doesn’t like is making that list.”
…For might makes right
Until they’ve seen the light,
They’ve got to be protected,
All their rights respected,
‘Til somebody we like can be elected!…
– Tom Lehrer, “Send the Marines”
“So if you don’t like being governed by another country, and take action against it, you’re a terrorist. Except, by that definition, we are a nation founded on terrorism. Boston Tea Party? Terrorism. Revolutionary War? Terrorism. George Washington? Terrorist. John Hancock? Filthy terrorist. Why, how dare they want the country for themselves just because they live there!”
Not really. If you don’t like being governed by another country and take action against it, said action being you load up a car full of bombs and blow it up in the middle of a street…yeah, you’re probably a terrorist.
“We kicked Hussein out and killed his kids. Great, but now what?”
That’s like saying, of the second world war, “We overthrew an elected leader and shot his pals.”
If we allow free elections by January, as Bush stated, then I guess the puppet government plot is just a left wing fantasy.
And how many times have we promised them free elections already?
How many times have we delayed the transfer of power? And how many more times will we delay it?
The problem with Bush is that the words coming out of his mouth sound like šhìŧ and stink like it too.
Well, they can invest in their own economies but given the sorry state of much of the European situation (and the demographics look grim indeed for the future), that would be ill advised.
Hmm. All I know is that fundraisers are looking increasingly to Europe for high net worth individual; for quite some time, Europe has more of them and are growing them quicker than North America and Asia.
Roger Tang said:
” Right now, all I see are bunglers everywhere”
Oh THAT Leftist media……
Does anyone really think that if it looks like the Iraqi elections are going to go a way we don’t want them to that we won’t interfere. Anyone remember the national election in Vietnam? Canceled because we knew the communist would win. What the wing-nuts who get all there news from Pravada I’m sorry I mean Fox don’t understand is that while nearly everyone supported the Afghan campaign the reason Bush lost so many in going after Iraq is that Iraq never attacked the US people. Why can’t we say as a people we screwed up if the Iraqis wanted to get rid of Saddam good for them we’ll help them out etc. But when we invade a country occupy and tell them we’ll figure out how you should be governed were just setting ourselves up for trouble.
Maybe Hussein’s kids would’ve been safer as circus acrobats…
Anthony X….I take it that you think that the sloppy oversight that led to the Abu Ghraib prison is not the fault of the current Administration but is instead the fault of the leftist media? That the underestimation of the Iraqui opposition that has led to the current insurgency is the fault of the media? That the imbroglio involving the over-reliance on Ahmed Chalabi is the sign of competence? That the lack of a program and policy after Hussein was overthrown has been a sign of capable people? That the continued reliance on an undermanned and underprepared military and the dismissal of military people who wanted more and better prepared personnel is the mark of a capable and competent cadre of personnel?
If so, then I am indeed worried about the future of America; they have indeed accepted mediocrity over excellence.
Here we go again? Left vs Right, Democrats vs Republicans, Pro Bush vs Pro Kerry.
same old arguments that will go for the next few days. don’t you guys get tired of the same thing?
Joe
“Maybe Hussein’s kids would’ve been safer as circus acrobats…”
LOL.
Joe…
Of course not… it never gets…. *YAWN*…. tiring
Travis
“And how many times have we promised them free elections already?
How many times have we delayed the transfer of power? And how many more times will we delay it?”
Well, you got me. I’m stumped. Because all I’ve been hearing lately is that critics want Bush to ditch the June 30th deadline, that it was something he was being stubborn about. So just when DID we promise them a transfer, if not june 30th?
“What’s even more bizzare is that Americans think the media coverage of Iraqi prisoner abuse is ‘excessive’… at least, according to 70% of FoxNews viewers.”
I actually think it is excessive, in that the media reports way too much about everything. I just wish that for once the media would stop making big deal out of everything, (Micheal Jackson, O.J., Martha Stewart) that way when something important actually does happen people will be able to tell the difference.
“It’s a fool’s game to care what the rest of the world thinks about the most powerful country in it.”
*sigh* That is what almost every superpower in history has thought, and we don’t see them around today. This is why we teach history in our schools.
“Imagine if he had said that he hadn’t learned a thing form those deaths. Hoo boy.”
He would have been telling the truth for once.
You know, anyone who actually says they’re out to ‘Fisk’ the boards doesn’t seem particularly interested in an actual exchange of ideas. The concept of ‘Fisking’ has been used since day one as a means of attacking someone, not of debating them.
It’s rapidly swirling down the drain, folks.
“May be”? MAY??? Yeah, I guess that might be in doubt. True, in Iraq people were fed into paper shredders for espousing unpopular political beliefs but in the U.S. of A. we have dissidents being FORCED to stand hundreds of yards away from the president!
Yeah, in Iraq now, under US management, you’ll only be beaten to death and have your dead body the subject of photographic fun for the soldiers who killed you, complete with sunny smiles and thumbs up. That’s much better, I agree. That’s ideal. Thats exactly what the US should stand for.
As for the other point I’m not certain that eliminating fascist dictatorships armed to the teeth is any more of a fast trip to hëll than letting them stand (or, as our humanitarian European allies did, profit handsomely from dealing with them)but I’m willing to give it a try.
Well, then, why aren’t you signing up? There are dozens of fascist dictatorships armed to the teeth out there, and we’re already stretched to the limit… we need more warm bodies if we’re going to invade Syria and Iran, you know. Not to mention the commies in North Korea and maybe even China… gonna take a lot of manpower to invade them. Since you’re so willing to find out how many lives we need to spend to fix the world, i suggest you get up front.
Well, they can invest in their own economies but given the sorry state of much of the European situation (and the demographics look grim indeed for the future), that would be ill advised. Where else are they going to go? The freedom loving land of China? The USA has resources, agriculture, and a highly productive workforce. it’s population is expanding due mainly to the influx of hard working immigrants. It’s a wise investment. greed will always win out over “principles”, especially those that are nothing of the kind.
Tell that to Airbus. I live in Seattle, where Boeing is bleeding to death because Europe doesn’t want to kick any business America’s way, and Asia is following suit. They don’t need us and they don’t like us. They’re more than happy to keep their money at home. Your attitude is both arrogant and untrue… while our jobs are being swept out the door by big companies which would love to save the cash that setting up shop in Bangladesh will allow them to, Europe is investing in itself.
They are far more vulnerable to the threat of Islamofasism than we are. I suspect it will not be the United States that will be needing help
Which country is the one that’s quietly restarting the draft? Oh, right. That would be the United States. The rest of the world sees this as a law enforcement problem, and so isn’t trying to use raw, untrammeled force… we, on the other hand, are sustaining casualties on two fronts while our allies pull out, and we’re the ones going to the UN with our hat in our hands. But we’re far less vulnerable than they are. Uh-huh. We don’t need help, we’re all powerful, get your helmet on faceless teenager and get shot so that Bill can keep telling himself that we’re on the side of the angels and nothing bad can come out of a four year policy of antagonizing the entire world, up to and including beating people to death while torturing them for information, and in many cases arresting people who aren’t even guilty of a crime. And if you don’t think it can happen here, ask Brandon Mayfield about FBI forensic technique and wrongful arrest.
In speaking of fighting evil: Off Topic – Go rent or buy Bubba Ho-Tep with Bruce Campbell. Released today.
Hail to the King…
Travis
Bruce Campbell IS god…
There are times when I wonder how someone can look at the same situation and see exactly the opposite picture. We can go back and forth on the ways we like or do not like how Bush has conducted this war, but it is beyond my comprehension to imply that we are not better than Saddam. This is not an attempt to say that Bush at least had good intentions. This is a flat out statement that in the broad picture, America is by far morally superior to Iraq. This is a complete denial of the insinuations that Bush concocted this war for his personal gain in any form (financial, power, legacy, etc.).
There is not doubt that the WMD were the number 1 reason given for the war, but why am I the only one who seems to have clearly heard that terrorism and human rights were also very important? The abuses that Saddam did to his own people far exceed the unfortunate results of our intervention in both scope and number. Saddam was clearly involved with terroism and supported terrorists (and while I don’t believe he directly was involved with 9/11, I do believe he was fully behind future attempts to repeat 9/11).
It is also absurd to say Bush lied about the WMD’s. Many democrats, including Kerry, looked at the same evidence, and said there were weapons. Clinton said there were weapons. Whether there was an “imminent” threat can be debated, but to say Bush concocted the evidence of their existence is to say he was controlling the CIA while he was still the governor of Texas. And if you believe that, then welcome to the X-Files.
Bottom line, you can argue that Bush has bungled the war. You can argue that our intelligence was grossly inaccurate. But to say that we are no better than Saddam shows either a lack of any moral compass, or a complete ignorance of what a brutal and ruthless dictator Saddam was for many, many years. Most of our troops are handling themselves well. Most of what we are doing in the country is helping. The general population is not plotting to throw us out of the country — they are ASKING us to leave. Big difference. WE ARE NOT THE SAME AS SADDAM’S REGIME. There are always way we are less than perfect and need to improve. But don’t waste my time saying that what Bush is offering is really a vision of tyranny and murder.
James in Iowa
“Screw that. If Kerry wins it will only be because he’s Not Bush. And it’ll be as big a disaster as Bush has been. If not worse because Kerry will likely do things that will eventually lead to an act of terrorism that will make 9/11 look like a cake walk. He’ll get lax, just like Clinton was, he’ll let the perception shift convince him the world really doesn’t resent us, and then, after years of planning we’ll all be wondering what the hëll happened when a major city goes kaboom.”
-Jam
How come every one thinks that Clinton was lax when it came to terrorism?
Actually, in 2000 Clinton had a plan in place for a full assault on the Taliban, but since it was so close to the elections, he decided to leave it to the new administration to implement it. But Bush put it on the back burner and instead decided to focus on the missile shield — something that has proven to be a great aid in the war on terror. And it was a modified version of the Clinton plan that Rumsfeld used to invade Afghanistan.
Democrats aren’t weak on terror. Especially those with actual war experience. They just have a better understanding of what types of things that wars involve and what they mean for the troops on the ground — and are thus far less likely to start unnecessary ones. Think about it: if we got wind of an Al Queda training camp in a random country, how able would we be right now to attack that camp? And what are the odds that that country would even believe us and let us in?
-Alonzo
If human rights are so important, then why haven’t we invaded China yet? Saudi Arabai hands sure aren’t clean in the terrorism or human (or at least women’s) right department either…
True, in Iraq people were fed into paper shredders for espousing unpopular political beliefs but in the U.S. of A. we have dissidents being FORCED to stand hundreds of yards away from the president!
Just for the record, it appears the whole “Saddam fed people into plastic shredders” story was a myth. No such shredders have been found in Iraq, and Pastor Kenneth Joseph, the person who first claimed to have heard of such atrocities, doesn’t exist.
See http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/03/59508.html for the details.
Ben Lesar: “I actually think it [media coverage of Iraqi prisoner abuse] is excessive, in that the media reports way too much about everything. I just wish that for once the media would stop making big deal out of everything, (Micheal Jackson, O.J., Martha Stewart) that way when something important actually does happen people will be able to tell the difference.”
So the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is not ‘something important’? We’ve only seen but the bare tip of the iceberg, yet this reporting is somehow ‘excessive?’ I implore you to reconsider.
tOjb
“If human rights are so important, then why haven’t we invaded China yet?”
Try this in that big bombastic sports guy voice they used to do on Saturday Night live/
Bombs? Atom!
Fallout? Mutations!
Deaths? Many!
Idea? Bad!
Or to put it another way: what did the Chinese General say when he was told his plan would cost a million men?
“So what’s the problem?”
“You know, anyone who actually says they’re out to ‘Fisk’ the boards doesn’t seem particularly interested in an actual exchange of ideas. The concept of ‘Fisking’ has been used since day one as a means of attacking someone, not of debating them.”
Well I am interested, as, apparently are you. Maybe things are not as dire as you think.
“Yeah, in Iraq now, under US management, you’ll only be beaten to death and have your dead body the subject of photographic fun for the soldiers who killed you, complete with sunny smiles and thumbs up. That’s much better, I agree. That’s ideal. Thats exactly what the US should stand for.”
There is a world of difference between evil done as deliberate policy and evil done by individuals. There is not a single instance anywhere of any large group of people who did not have at least a few able of committing atrocity. I’m sure that a few of the Jews in Buchenwald committed some heinous acts–does ANYONE think that this puts the group as a whole on or near the same playing field as the nazis? The same goes for the United States armed forces and the Saddam regime. If you don’t see that I doubt I can convince you. One clue though–where are the mass pogroms against the many Bush critics? Why does Michael Moore walk the earth still?
“Well, then, why aren’t you signing up? There are dozens of fascist dictatorships armed to the teeth out there, and we’re already stretched to the limit… we need more warm bodies if we’re going to invade Syria and Iran, you know. Not to mention the commies in North Korea and maybe even China… gonna take a lot of manpower to invade them. Since you’re so willing to find out how many lives we need to spend to fix the world, i suggest you get up front.”
Ah yes, the knee jerk liberal equivalent of the knuckle dragging conservative comment “Hey, if you don’t like the country, leave!” I’m afraid I’m a bit long in the tooth to volunteer but if things get so bad that they need me I’ll go. But…I hate to break the news but we aren’t invading China. I know, I know, it seems like we’re just invading EVERYBODY these days, it’ll get to the point where there won’t be any dictatorships left to bribe but in reality, it ain’t gonna happen. Relax.
“Your attitude is both arrogant and untrue… while our jobs are being swept out the door by big companies which would love to save the cash that setting up shop in Bangladesh will allow them to, Europe is investing in itself.”
Wait and see. Europe has serious demographic problems. The population is aging and becoming less productive and more demanding. And I stand by my statement–we have energy, food, and manpower. People are still trying like crazy to get in. Maybe they know something.
“Which country is the one that’s quietly restarting the draft? Oh, right. That would be the United States.”
Um…where did you hear this. It’s been quiet, all right. Seriously.
“Uh-huh. We don’t need help, we’re all powerful, get your helmet on faceless teenager and get shot so that Bill can keep telling himself that we’re on the side of the angels and nothing bad can come out of a four year policy of antagonizing the entire world, up to and including beating people to death while torturing them for information, and in many cases arresting people who aren’t even guilty of a crime.”
Wow, so when you said at the beginning “The concept of ‘Fisking’ has been used since day one as a means of attacking someone, not of debating them” you were talking about yourself. Projection much?
The straw man argument wows ’em over a nice Latte Frappacino at the local Starbucks, right before you go to Professor Popalopolous’ Economics class, the one where the guy pronounces “macro” and “micro” exactly the same, which makes it tough, lemme tell ya, but c’mon. Haven