WHY ASK WHY?

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

Quite a few people, surprisingly, have been e-mailing me asking if I know why Jim Starlin–as reported on his website–is departing “Thanos” in general and Marvel in particular.

The answer is, yeah, I know.

Will I say anything beyond that? No. Why? Nobody’s business but Jim’s and Marvel’s.

It’s as if lack of detail is a vacuum, and since nature abhors a vacuum, everyone rushes in with their own speculation. Then others react to the speculation as if it were fact. And the whole thing just spirals.

Not that I’m necessarily any better. In “But I Digress,” I’ll openly speculate on why certain decisions are made at various publishers. But generally that speculation is derived from trying to think like a business person, rather than an angry fan.

I think because of “But I Digress,” though, there’s this perception that I’m this huge blabbermouth who’s always going on about inside information. But if you actually read the column, you’ll realize that–with very rare exceptions–I comment purely on stuff that’s already public knowledge.

PAD

57 comments on “WHY ASK WHY?”

  1. Pity. I’m enjoying Starlin’s current ‘THANOS’ series.

    Whatever issues Starlin is having with Marvel right now, I only hope he doesn’t find them elsewhere.

  2. But if you actually read the column, you’ll realize that–with very rare exceptions–I comment purely on stuff that’s already public knowledge.

    Okay, well here’s public knowledge; Jim says there were “irreconcilable creative differences” between him and Marvel. So in your opinion, were those differences arbitrary or unreasonable, on Marvel’s part?

    And I think there is legitimate interest beyond “gossip”; this would be indicative of the general editorial direction of the new admin, and that, in turn, is legitimate to take into account when making our purchasing decisions.

  3. Well, as in all things, money talks. I’m buying the book because Starlin and Thanos are a match made in heaven (or hëll). Without him, it’s very unlikely the book will be any good. The only other writer I can recall writing the character well is Ron Marz.

    Anyway, I will probably end up not buying the book anymore. Of course, Marvel will probably blame any decreased sales on the character not being “appealing” to the fans. Editors rarely own up to their stupid mistakes.

  4. Ron Marz, the guy responsible for some of the worst Silver Surfer stories conceivable? I’d be much happier never hearing his name in conjunction to any Marvel cosmic characters again

  5. If you aren’t going to tell us, why even bother bringing it up in the first place?

    I don’t read comics anymore, stopped the first time I got laid off in June 2001, and never got back into the habit.

    Hadn’t heard or gave a dámņ about this story till you mentioned it here.

  6. Shame, I was really excited about the book. Even got some old Dreadstar fans to look at it and pick up a the first issue.

    On the plus side Marvel books are too expensive and now I spend a little less each month.

  7. If you aren’t going to tell us, why even bother bringing it up in the first place?

    Apparently, because several people were emailing him with questions about this and he wanted to put a stop to this.

    Reading comprehension can be a very powerful tool.

  9. Actually, PAD would seem to me to be a logical candidate to take over the book. He certainly does smart characters really well, and Captain Marvel is reasonably successful, so he can do cosmic and make it sell.

    Peter, I’m under the impression that the Captain Marvel trade paperback has sold quite well. Any comment on that (the tpb sales)?

  10. Sorry for breaking in to this with unrelated news…

    but SaveFarscape.com just confirmed that Farscape will be returning next year as a 4-hour miniseries — filming to start in December, with Claudia Black and Ben Browder confirmed as being on board.

    While not an entire 5th season, at least Henson and associates get a chance to wrap up the loose ends left at the end of 4th season.

    Oh fraptious day! (Joy!)

  11. I can read Ken, but apparently you can’t.

    Why bring the question to the forefront in public if you are tired of people asking you in private?

    Duh

  12. >Why bring the question to the

    >forefront in public if you are

    >tired of people asking you in

    >private?

    (Speaking slowly.) So… that… people… don’t… continue… to… ask… you… the… question.

  13. Because by issuing a public “I’m not answering the question” PAD hopes to head off any more questions? 😉

  14. Well, I’d just like to congratulate PAD on his discretion. In an age of blabbermouths, it’s refreshing.

  15. Dammit.

    I like Starlin. Met him about 2-3 years ago and he seemed like a really cool guy. (although I didn’t expect him to look like a darker haired Dreadstar. heh.)

    What is it with the big two pìššìņg øff talent?

  17. While part of me understands why PAD felt the need to say these things, another part of me wonders why he did.

    By even saying what he said, it just feels like he’s the naked man running and yelling, “Hey look at me!” And then being embarrassed when everyone looks…. Emails aside, why say anything when you say you don’t want to say a thing?

  18. I can read Ken…

    I don’t doubt your ability to read, it is the comprehension part that you seem to struggle with.

  19. Not that I’m necessarily any better. In “But I Digress,” I’ll openly speculate on why certain decisions are made at various publishers. But generally that speculation is derived from trying to think like a business person, rather than an angry fan.

    PAD

    Not trying to harp, Peter, but merely to clarify: Does the above comment imply that, if you weren’t in a position to know the “truth (depending on which party’s version — one of Solomon’s proverbs reads, “He who speaks first is righteous in a matter,” being that people tend to believe the comments from the first side that we hear from, and carry a bias when hearing from the second party — BID), you would be willing to openly speculate (at least from Marvel’s viewpoint) about this situation, but you would prefer not to comment now that your comments would tend to be less misleading?

    It’s an ironic statement, both hypocritical (being willing to talk louder when you don’t know what you’re talking about) and virtuous (it’s one thing to air speculation when everyone knows that’s all it is, but another thing to blab about intimate truth) at the same time.

    Don’t worry — I appreciate your discretion and I’m sure the involved parties do, too. The irony was just too interesting to not note.

  20. One of the reasons Peter wrote this was to cut down/out the number of e-mails he was getting from all over the place. There are only so many hours in the day and his e-mail address is not a secret by any means.

    Kathleen

  22. God knows what Peter David -or any other decent writer – could do with the THANOS series. A good writer had BETTER leap in after Starlin’s departure, or else it’s not too likely the title will last beyond 20 issues. (Harley Quinn recently ended at #38. I’ll miss her. I hope the same fate doesn’t befall good ol’ Purple Puss.)

    Beisdes, there’s some wonderful potential meat to the series, and the character. I mean, the guy got three -THREE- cracks at Godhood, and he blew them all. What does that say about Thanos himself?

  23. It’s an ironic statement, both hypocritical (being willing to talk louder when you don’t know what you’re talking about) and virtuous (it’s one thing to air speculation when everyone knows that’s all it is, but another thing to blab about intimate truth) at the same time.

    It may come across that way, but it’s not.

    Whether I’m aware of inside information or not, I rarely if ever write a BID about a creator resigning off a title. I figure that’s usually between the creator and the company. If I speculate on reasons, well…it could be anything, really, so it’s such guess work that it’s pointless. If I *do* know for sure what’s going on, then I’m making public info that the party or parties involved don’t want publicized, and I don’t see the point, especially since such info is usually told me in confidence.

    The only time I can think of off hand that I commented about a creator departure was Waid being off FF…and that was all based on public commentary by the creators involved, plus the whole thing was just so WEIRD.

    There’s been any number of times where I’ve gotten repeated inquiries about something via e-mail and decided to address it here since I figure a number of people are interested. No one’s ever ascribed sinister motives to it before.

    PAD

  24. With everything that has happened with them (so far) this year, it makes you wonder if Marvel will even be around this time next year.

  25. seems almost childish.

    “hey everyobody, I just found out who got fired/got the promotion!”

    “who?”

    “Oh, i can’t tell you.”

    So why bring it up?

  26. Shane:

    “So why bring it up?”

    Because, if you read the very first sentence, PAD was responding to several e-mail requests; otherwise, I’m sure he never would have brought it up. Not the same thing you’re stating.

  27. There’s been any number of times where I’ve gotten repeated inquiries about something via e-mail and decided to address it here since I figure a number of people are interested. No one’s ever ascribed sinister motives to it before.

    PAD

    My apologizes if I didn’t make myself clear. My comment was not directed at you, Peter, and I definitely didn’t see the slightest bit of malice in your intent. After all, I ended the note on the virtuous, and I feel you did the right thing by not commenting on the situation. Indeed, I’ve often read in your articles about how you’ve cleared certain conversations first before offering them for discussion.

    No, my observation was not personal, but more general. I just saw the irony in that we, and our media-driven society, now see it as completely acceptable to discuss initimate or inappropriate things and offer opinions about them (Michael Jackson’s newest situation is merely a current example) as long everyone knows that we really don’t know what we’re talking about.

    For example, if you didn’t know anything about Mr. Starlin’s situation, few people would see it as intrusive to offer theories on your site, even if your speculation would have later been revealed to have actually hit the nail on the head. However, any conjecture that you might make based on (presumably) facts, however second-hand, is considered disdainful, a violation of trust, and rightfully so, even though there is virtue in your desire to be truthful and only chime in when your opinions are informed.

    Really, the only difference between speculation and gossip is that, appropriately done, speculation deliberately draws the distinction between musing and reporting. (Again, your columns usually make said distinction.) But nowadays, the topic of appropriateness never even makes into the conversation anymore.

    When we get right down to it, the true virtue would be to not discuss ANYTHING that’s out of turn, whether our opinion is informed or not. But that’s just not human nature. As Don Henley said, we love our dirty laundry. (And I include myself fully. How could I be here making a post in the first place if I didn’t?) I just see the peculiarity of the situation in that, when we try to determine the lesser of two evils in how we engage in the vice of discussing private matters, we’ve determined the lesser vice to be speculation (when we are feeling more generous, rumour-mongering when it gets vicious) than a desire to speak from knowledge.

    Again, Peter, my two cents on gossip, not you.

    JB

  28. (The following is intended as semi-humorous exaggeration, and not based on any knowledge outside of this thread.)

    Hëll, blame it on Bill Jemas. Gossip loves an easy villain.

    The camel’s back has already been broken. What’s one more straw, more or less?

  30. Hey, a cherished mental image survives! I’ve always pictured Starlin as looking like Dreadstar and someone says he does???? Cool!

    My mental image of PAD was a tallish Peter Parker type. No offense, Peter, but that mental image went down in flames when I actually met you the first time. Much more personable than I’d imagined, though.

    Miller and Gaimen are exactly like I pictured them. Almost everyone else was not.

    It’s a bit like radio personalities. It’s no fun seeing pictures of them because they just don’t match up.

    Sorry for the digression.

  32. Well, Brevoort did state on his message board that the departure had nothing to do with the THANOS series itself, but something unrelated.

  34. OK, after reading all of that the only thing that really seems worth comenting on is the return of Farscape! Thanks for the update Doug.

  35. Thanos is a unique and intriguing character. Whoever replaces Jim Starlin in writing his series had better be a worthy replacement. It doesn’t sound as likely that he’d come back and retcon out all of the stupid “Thanos” plots this time around (and it certainly needed doing last time …).

  36. So, PAD, any chance you’ll be taking over the writing on Thanos? You’ve written the character before in the pages of CM, so you obviously have some sort of take on him. Plus, then you could corner the market on Marvel’s cosmic titles.

  37. PAD could do Thanos. He’s one of the few that can with any skill. Both have a twisted sense of ironic humor. But I would love to see him do Genis’ uncle in a monthly.

  38. So, PAD, any chance you’ll be taking over the writing on Thanos?

    SHHHHHH! Leave it alone, don’t breathe another word, don’t pester anyone about it, let it sit in quiet, undisturbed silence in it’s little corner, and maybe, just maybe, it’ll come true…

  39. Marvel makes — from the common fan’s perspective — one boneheaded move after another.

    Yet their profits — reportedly — are on the rise.

    Odd.

    Then again, there’s been nothing that I have seen to say this wasn’t Mr. Starlin’s decision. The press release from Camp Starlin simply said he would no longer be working on the book.

    Has Marvel made an official statement on the situation yet?

  41. I’ve heard about the bad news already, and it’s a shame that now, even Starlin’s been let down.

    But how is it exactly, that their profits are doing well, if they are? Is this true, or, is it misinformation? I just don’t know.

  42. (quote)But how is it exactly, that their profits are doing well, if they are? Is this true, or, is it misinformation? I just don’t know.(unquote)

    It is true – and the vast chunk of that money is coming in from movie deals and licensing income (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Publishing, while up a bit, is peanuts in the big money picture.

  43. Posted by Titan67: “Well, Brevoort did state on his message board that the departure had nothing to do with the THANOS series itself, but something unrelated.”

    Hmmm…. at first I thought it had something to do with the new publisher (Buckley), as this week’s Lying in the Gutters also quoted Bryan Hitch on getting editorial interference from him.

    But if it had nothing to do with the series itself…

    I know Starlin was trying to sell his Kid Cosmos series, maybe he was just angry at Marvel for not wanting to publish it? 🙂

    BTW, at ‘the Pulse’ Negation writer Tony Bedard hinted that he, too, would love to write Thanos.

    I’m all for PAD being the new writer on the comic, but if he doesn’t (want to) do it… Tony Bedard is a GREAT writer as well…

  44. They way that PAD has successfully portrayed a “mad Genis” shows me that he could easily write a “mad Titan” just as well.

  45. \\(quote)But how is it exactly, that their profits are doing well, if they are? Is this true, or, is it misinformation? I just don’t know.(unquote)

    It is true – and the vast chunk of that money is coming in from movie deals and licensing income (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Publishing, while up a bit, is peanuts in the big money picture.\\

    Yeah…same as it’s been with other comic companies, like DC.

    The financial data on Marvel is readily available; just take a look at their SEC documents, which they’re required to file (and are available on their web site, among other places).

    Guess the other point I can make is that this thread shows the level of reading comprehension out there. *sigh*

  46. Tony Bedard’s “Negation” HAS been excellent. He would seem like a great option, with a nice level of intelligence reflected in his work which would be necessary to do our mighty Titan justice.

  48. For those people that missed it, Starlin talks to Jen Contino at ‘the Pulse’:

    “Dear Jen,

    I was turned onto your web page by a friend and have looked through what’s going on in your forum about my quitting Marvel. I don’t want to get into why I quit but I think it is important for folks to know that Ron Lim coming onto the book had nothing to do with it. He had already been approved and was slated to pencil the book. Please post.

    Jim Starlin”

    All I have to say is, I hope Starlin’s departure doesn’t affect Ron’s coming onboard!! Yay!!!

  49. A realization occurred to me a little while ago. I really think I’m not being so much PESSIMISTIC as REALISTIC.

    Maybe it’s for the best Thanos’s series doesn’t last.

    Give it some thought. Thanos usually makes for a dynamic character when he guest-stars in other magazines and his own miniseries, but we’ve yet to see evidence than he can support his own ONGOING series.

    The problem lies in the lack of a solid supporting cast. At the moment we’ve got Warlock, but his generally glum disposition might wear down readers after several issues. (I hope “The Recorder” sticks around – his habit of stating the obvious ranges from annoying to outright hilarious. There might be potential comic relief somewhere in there). SPIDER-MAN has Mary Jane, J. Jonah Jameson, “Robbie” Robertson, Aunt May, Flash Thompson, etc. X-MEN has – well, there’s no genuine main character. The whole cast IS the story. What does THANOS have, other than the above mentioned dramatis personae?

    SILVER SURFER faced this same dilemma. During the magazine’s first run, it became painfully clear that Stan Lee was running out of exciting premises for Silverado, mainly due to the facts that 1) the Surfer’s adventures were limited strictly to Earth, which made for some interesting stories on Man’s Inhumanity to Man but swiftly becoming all-too-repetitious, and 2) the only permanent cast member was the Surfer himself.

    Whoever takes over the writing duties on THANOS could (I’m not saying ‘should’, since I can’t write a competent college essay let alone a comic series) seize the opportunity to create his/her own ‘backup’ cast for the series. I’m not speaking of overstuffing THANOS with more characters than the number of monthly SPIDER-MAN titles. After all, Thanos is one of the most melancholic beings in the Marvel Universe, and his series should remain, in essence, a one-man show. Perhaps only ONE additional character is required; perhaps a new love, to fill in the void left by Mistress Death?

    Or perhaps the next writer can just ignore me ( as he/she should) and do their own thing, which is BOUND to be better.

  50. Perhaps only ONE additional character is required; perhaps a new love, to fill in the void left by Mistress Death?

    I think Gamora still needs to be explored, she’s always had close ties with Thanos (being saved by him, becoming his assistant etc.)

    BTW, PAD seems to refer to Mistress Death as “Milady Death”, but otherwise his portrayal of Thanos was spot on! 🙂

    Oh, and over at Comix-fan, Tom Brevoort confirmed Ron Lim will still be the artist as of issue # 7! I’ll definitely be staying on board now!

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