Herein is ANGEL and SMALLVILLE.
And if another frickin’ person asks me to rearrange it yet another way to accommodate their television viewing schedule, I’m going back to putting it all in one post.
An additional thought on ANGEL below
PAD
SMALLVILLE—On the surface, this week’s episode featuring a villain who’s a combination of Magneto and Don Juan (Magnetic personality? Get it?) seems a throwback to the Kryptonite Villain-of-the-week that marked much of the show’s early years. But those episodes always seemed more about the villain. This go around there’s far more emphasis on how such an individual impacts on the characters whom we’ve grown to know and care about. Granted, yet another convenient coma/memory loss springs to the resolution, and granted, the roads of Smallville continue to be a claims adjustor’s nightmare (my guess is that State Farm wouldn’t touch the place with a ten meter cattle prod.) It was still an entertaining adventure. However, I have to say that the Clark/Lana dynamic is stuck in spin cycle at this point. We must date…but we mustn’t…but I don’t want to see you with other people…oh, let’s get it on…wait, we mustn’t. Hamlet made snap judgments compared to these two. It’s almost as if they’re on an emotional hamster wheel because Clark can’t have any action (no pun intended) until he marries Lois. I don’t know that that’s an edict or anything, but that’s what it feels like. Which means we’re watching the illusion of change between Clark and Lana, and sooner or later, you see through illusions and realize it just ain’t there. That’s probably why anything having to do with Lex, Lionel and Chloe is so interesting: Because we really don’t know for sure what’s going to happen with them. Oh, say…didn’t Pete Ross used to be in this show?
ANGEL—Wesley’s been a fifth wheel for the season thus far, but wow, was this worth waiting for. In the long term, there’s some definite set-up for some sort of Big Bad who’s targeted Wolfram and Hart in general and Angel in particular. In the short term, not only were the dynamics between Wes and his father fascinating, but the twists were unexpected and the shoot-out was a shocker. And the look on Fred’s face when she says that Wesley did what he did because his father was threatening a friend, and Wesley says significantly, “I shot him because he was threatening YOU.” Finally. Finally finally finally he’s making it clear to her just how strongly he feels about her. However, here’s my one problem. I can see why they revealed that it was, in fact, a robot that Wesley shot. They didn’t want to burden a human character with the knowledge that he killed his own father, no matter the provocation (and Angel and Spike’s endeavors to “comfort” Wes was some of the most darkly hilarious lines of the show.) But if it was a cyborg all along, what possible reason did he have not to snap Wesley’s neck in the vault rather than just knock him out. He had what he wanted, and Wes alive was only a liability. For that matter, why just hold a gun on him on the roof? “I don’t want to shoot you, Wesley.” Why the hëll not? Someone programmed him to act so much like Wes’s dad that he was unaware of his own status? C’mon. You can’t have a cyborg as sophisticated as what we saw and simultaneously limited. The only reason Wes is alive is that he’s a regular. It was still a great episode, deeply emotional. But when it was over I thought, “Hmm. That bit didn’t make much sense.”
Additional thought–I just LOVED the trailer for next week. Previously, when Dru has shown up in flashbacks on “Angel,” it presaged a Drusilla return in modern day. We can only hope that’s the case here. Hey, maybe they’ll call the episode “Dru Calling.”
• 
“And if another frickin’ person asks me to rearrange it yet another way to accommodate their television viewing schedule, I’m going back to putting it all in one post.”
PAD,
You should arrange the Roundup into whatever way is most covenient for you, because, you know, you’re the one taking the time to put it together.
Interesting comment about Wesley and his “father.” I hadn’t thought about that.
By a strange coincidence, right after I watched the episode, I watched the season two episode on DVD where Wesley is talking on the phone with his father at the beginning.
Rick
Excellent analysis of both episodes, Peter. I enjoyed ANGEL a good deal more if only for the “Holy S**t” factor.
Can I also just throw this out for discussion; you see a lot of scenes these days where 2 or more people are pointing handguns at each other’s heads and everyone is afraid to be the first to pull the trigger. Watch any John Woo or Quentin Tarantino flick and you’ll know what I mean. I’ve always wondered–is there any reason not to just be the first to fire your gun? Is it likely that the one you shoot will actually be able to fire back? Especially if you do it in a real sneaky way like in the middle of a sentance–“Ok, Chou Lin, it looks like we have here a Mexic–BANG!”.
I mean, even if his hand jerks back on the trigger as your bullet goes through his brain pan, wouldn’t his aim be off?
I’m not planing on putting this to the test or anything, I don’t even own a gun so any contest where my opponent has a Magnum and I, conversely, have a hand with skin on it, lacks pretty much any level of suspense. Just wondering
First off, I say order the stuff however the heck you want it. I generally like to just lurk and read others’ opinions…despite the fact that I seem to be the first guy here on the scene.
Smallville — Pete Ross? Who’s that? The name seems vaguely familiar. Isn’t he the Lt. Governor of Kansas? I’ll admit that I’m heartily tired with Clark and Lana just spinning their wheels. I think the old Silver Age Superboy comics had Pete Ross in on the Secret and helping to cover for Clark with Lana and others, but Clark just needs to figure out who he really trusts and let them in on his secret. He’d learn if Lana could really handle him being mutant/alien. He might get Chloe’s help in covering up his own secret as well as investigating other Wall-of-Weird cases. Lex could help him track down what Lionel really knows about Clark only to have Clarks secret fall into Lionels hands…
Hmmm, I can see why Clark hasn’t started spreading the news any further.
Angel — I’ll admit that it seems strange that Wesley wasn’t just summarily killed in the vault. It’s especially strange as he’s likely the single member of Angel’s inner circle with the best chance of figuring a way to counteract what the cyborg did to Angel with that wand. The only reason that I can come up with is that Angel isn’t the only one that the Mysterious Bad Guys need for their Master Plan. Wesley may be instrumental to their ultimate goal as well. I know that’s weak, but he was the one that the Bad Guys did all the research on when they were preparing to infiltrate Wolfram & Hart. Maybe they knew so much about Wesley because they had already had to learn everything about him for use in another part of their Evil Plan. I’ll admit it’s thin but it’s the best idea that I’ve got.
Re: SMALLVILLE
Not something I watch often, because whenever I do, I can’t get past the stupidity of the Clark/Lana relationship, which has to be the most unrealistic teenage relationship on TV right now from just about any angle. If these two were remotely like real people, they’d have had some significant forward motion by this point, whether closer togther (including sexual intimacy) or further apart. The most interesting relationship on the show, to me, remains the Clark/Lex one, and that’s even before considering the homoerotics. 🙂
Re: ANGEL
Good point about the possible plot flaw in Cyberdad’s programming, but consider this possibility:
Cyberdad’s masters wanted to leave Wes alive at W&H in a weakened, demoralized state, knowing that he’d be next in charge after Angel’s capture, and figuring that he’d be so thrown by his father’s betrayal (at least until he called home and found out that that hadn’t been Dad) he’d act as a destabilizing force on Team Angel, some of who, they hoped, might blame him for the loss.
(Of course, that theory would work a lot better if Cyberdad’s masters had taken the logical pre-op step of actually killing/replacing Roger, which, to me, is the larger plot hole in their plan. How much more devious it would have been–had they succeded–to have convinced Wes that his father and the COW had actually aligned themselves against Angel and W&H. Silly cyborg masters…….)
But all that aside, I agree that the episode was really superb, with one of the best ending acts we’ve seen on the show, ever. I love, love, love the idea that the Big Bad will, in fact, be a Big Good working at cross-purposes to W&H, as it’s absolutely essential that the show explore that kind of idea at some point in the new set-up. It makes perfect sense that other forces for Good in the world would be, at best, quite dubious about the new regime at W&H, and even that many of them would actively work to get Angel out of there and destroy/plunder the place altogether.
As to Fred and Wes, the whole thing was note-perfect, from her desire to undercut the intensity of what he’d done for fear of its implications to his resolute “No, you should go” when Knox appeared at the door. Perfect.
**And if another frickin’ person asks me to rearrange it yet another way to accommodate their television viewing schedule, I’m going back to putting it all in one post.
PAD**
If nothing else, this arrangement simply makes more sense since, with the new line up, people watch SMALLVILLE and ANGEL back-to-back. It follows that they would be able to read this thread without worrying about having a show that appears at a different day/time slot spoiled.
ANGEL: If the cyborg masters are actually from the Forces of Good, I can easily see why they would want to spare Wesley. They wouldn’t want to unnecessarily kill innocents, and Wesley was a powerful soldier for the forces of Good. Failing that, even if Wesley thought his father had betrayed him, having him alive would allow the cyborg-masters to try and manipulate/recruit him later.
I agree with what Sasha said above about Wesley.
The people attacking Angel this time weren’t the bad guys, at least, as far as we’ve been told. They’re another group, working for the forces of good or, at least, believe they are. I can see why they’d be worried. Angel is unstable, at best, and I think he runs a great risk at being manipulated by Wolfram and Hart.
Wesley, on the other hand… I don’t seem him as easily jerked around. It wouldn’t be quite as easy for him to lose his soul and I think he’s been through enough and seen enough to know better. Wesley’s a vauble asset to the powers of good and he’s very rarely faulted when it counted (of course, I even think he was somewhat justified in his actions regarding Connor, even though that didn’t quite work out as well as it could have).
Like Sasha said, I felt the goal was just make sure Angel wasn’t a threat, not kill other key players who are fighting the good fight. Even with all the chaos, those cyborgs weren’t aiming to kill anybody else (except for the bad guys). Yes, they threw Gunn around quite a bit, but, to me, they didn’t seem to really be trying, since we saw them moving so well in the beginning of the episode.
As for Smallville, well… I record it and fast-forward through the Clana crap. It makes for a short viewing time. I really wish they’d just let this go. I’d rather *not* focus on angsty teenage relationships and instead have them find a reasonable plot for Clark to follow, much like Lex’s situation right now. They’re showing his gradual fall from grace, but doing nothing to set up Clark for his own destiny. Enough with the shipper stuff, guys. Let’s move on.
The Wesley not getting thing actually makes sense to me now that I think about it if – and this is a big if – the ninja cyborgs were actually good guys. Some of the dialogue early in implied that they were (or at least might be) and, in that case, this could be the start of good guys going after Angel and friends on a guilt by association basis. Knowing what they did about Wesley, however, they might have seen him as a valuable ally later on and thus not wanted to kil him if it wasn’t absolutely necessary.
I have a feeling that this is going to be an important episode in a number of ways. Beyond the fact that I think it’ll takes the bulk of the season for Wesley to adjust to the discovery that he’s capable of shooting his own father, and the new Wes-Fred thing, I think we’ll see more ninja cyborgs.
Those ninjas. They’re wacky.
W&H originally wanted to spare Angel and Wesley because they would be key players in the apocalypse. Is that still true, or was last season what they were talking about.
Does Lex have to fall from grace to oppose Clark? He could just oppose him idealogically.
And how come Wesley remembers dismembering Lilah? Why does he think he started seeing her? What don’t they remember, exactly?
I think ( and hope) that at the end of season 5 Angel will be alone. He’ll have set up W&H as a force for good with Gunn at it’s head and he’ll go back to helping the helpless. ME can fire everyone but DB and save a few bucks.
I figure that Chloe pretty much has to have figured out that Clark’s got some sort of powers. The only reason she couldn’t have would be either 1) the theory some have floated that she turns out to use “Lois Lane” as a penname or 2) writer’s fiat as to her being terminally stupid; she knows powered folk exist, and Clark’s done too many things not to make it obvious to anyone close to him that he’s one.
I’d hoped that letting Pete in on Clark’s secret would get him back into a prominent role, but now he’s back to weekly “Hi, I’m here to deliver my two paragraphs of exposition. Make the check out to ‘Sam Jones III’.” bits. They’ve pretty much completely dropped the two ways he’d otherwise fit into the soap aspects, namely his expressed while under the inhibition destroying plant influence hots for Chloe and jealousy of Lex taking his place as Clark’s friend.
Re: Angel. Y’know, enough people on that show’s staff are comics fans that you’d think they’d have learned the lesson of Crisis. If you’re going to do a mass rewriting of history, at some point you need to explain to the audience exactly what did and didn’t happen from the characters’ new viewpoint. Dawn was less of a problem since you could figure a 10-13 year old Dawnie wouldn’t have played a major part in the revised Seasons 1-4 significant events. But Wes and the others have a *very* different and contradictory view of what happened for most of the last two years, including significant events.
I thought about the business of the android leaving Wes not only alive but intact
My thoughtis that maybe the new Big Bad needs Wes alive for something else at the moment and maybe Winifred was not as necessary to them–this should have been spelled out, though
Re: Angel. Y’know, enough people on that show’s staff are comics fans that you’d think they’d have learned the lesson of Crisis. If you’re going to do a mass rewriting of history, at some point you need to explain to the audience exactly what did and didn’t happen from the characters’ new viewpoint. But Wes and the others have a *very* different and contradictory view of what happened for most of the last two years, including significant events.
This is the sort of thinking comic book fans specilize in… trying to figure out how the post-retcon world *doesn’t* make sense, instead of just going with the flow. Wes and the gang don’t remember Conner, but they remember everything else (and that’s pretty simple)… and the show isn’t dwelling too much on the events of the last two seasons to make the niggling details of what exactly each character thought happened to be important.
But, Conner is supposed to be coming back for one more episode (likewise Cordy), so we’ll probably get the “oh, so that’s why I got kicked out, went crazy, and started sleeping with an evil lawyer” line then.
— Since no one has mentioned it yet, my favorite line of the week (with continuity to boot):
“Sex with robots is more common than people think.”
— I too marked out with the “elektra” moment. And it may just be me, but deep down, I almost they pull a swerve and Sloane really is good, since no one expects it. I also see that Jack’s heel turn won’t take much at this point.
Except it’s not a “niggling detail”. There was the whole bit in this episode where Eve was trying to psych out Angel with the “you don’t trust Wesley” riff…which would make no sense from Wes’ viewpoint as he never kidnapped/tried to rescue Connor.
About Angel:
You got to love the fact that the moment his father shows up, Wesley starts reverting to his old self. It was subtle but you could notice him stammering a bit and being a little less certain of himself. Guess it shows how much his father’s constant berating affected him growing up. And Spike, whom we can now safely assume read the Harry Potter books (Wesley was Headboy, so he calls him Percy) was just hilarious on his eagerness to diss Wes. But the best part had to be Angel talking to Wes in the end, when he tells him that he finally understands how Wes’ll do what’s right even if it costs him dearly, even if he’ll be alone at it. We see now that Angel has finally, truly and completely, forgiven Wes for taking Connor and was apologizing for his reaction back then (even if Wes doesn’t remember the incident and so can’t understand the implication of what he’s hearing).
About Smallville:
Chloe, Lex and Lionel are still the best thing in the show, even if they decided to chuck everyone else and just have them around, I’d still watch it. I have nothing new to add about them though. The only thing I have to say about this episode is how annoyed I was that Lana was so quick to bounce back from her love for Magnet Boy once he was finally defeated. Fact is that Clark was right, there are chemicals released in the brain (Phenyl-Ethyl-Amine (PEA) and Oxytocin) that create the feelings associated with falling in love. Just because they were released “artificially” in Lana, doesn’t mean that they would affect her any differently; so she should have gone through the effects of a major heartbreak and taken much longer to recover. The fact he was a bášŧárd should make things a little easier but people fall for the wrong person all the time and will still feel bad about breaking up, even when they know it’s for the best.
Raphy
Have a bit of good news for all you Angel fans.
It’s been confirmed that Angel has already been signed up for a sixth season! YAY!
Slight casting spoilers below….
I’ve also read that Andrew will be making an appearance later on in the season, along with one of the slayerettes from Buffy last season. Not saying which one yet.
It’s revealed that Andrew is being trained by Giles to be a watcher.
Faith will make a return sometime during the season, probably sweeps week.
Willow is set to make an appearance.
Cordy is going to show for one episode. Most likely to wrap up her characters story.
Buffy sadly will not be on this season. Scheduling conflicts. However Sarah said she would almost certainly be on sometime during sixth season..
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, here’s a scene I hope we witness sometime during this season.
Wolfram and Hart’s offices are the site of a big battle and get utterly trashed.
Wesley tells Angel that he’s hired the best remodler in the state to take care of rebuilding.
Pan around and Xander Harris is standing there with a dwindling smile behind Wesley as he realizes he’s working for Angel.
Long shot as Xander and Angel both say. “You.” at the same time.
Then Spike shows up.
Can you imagine the hillarity of this episode? All three of these men truly and deeply hate each other. The three of them forced to work together for even an episode would be comedic genius.
I’m done.
I don’t think Spike made the Head Boy connection from Harry Potter (at least, not necessarily. He did have a lot of downtime during Buffy, it’s entirely possible he gave a fellow Brit’s perspective of the occult a try — he would likely have found it laughable, though — I just keep remembering that Spike didn’t seem all that impressed when Andrew told him (in Buffy season 6) that he had every episode of Dr. Who on tape).
Actually, Spike seemed a bit stymied by the whole “Head Boy” thing, poking fun at him (and probably alluding, through tone, that “Head Boy” had something to do with giving head); also, I’ve heard people called “Percy.” I think it’s a step, in masculinity, above “Nancy.”
I think not killing Wesley or his father made perfect sense. The cyborgs are on the side of the angels (pardon the pun); it wouldn’t make sense for them to go around killing Watchers and such.
Nekouken,
I just re-watched the scenes again and you may be right. But Spike might not consider Harry Potter so laughable; he does watch “Passions” whenever he can after all. Maybe it’s just Sci-Fi that he doesn’t care for; hey do you suppose that he may be an executive at Fox on his spare time?
Raphy
*shudders at the mention that Connor will be back* Just do not like that character at all…
But I’m glad Cordy will be back for one episode! Yay. She deserves an ending to her storyline at least concering all her years on Buffy and Angel.
Anyway…Wensday’s ANGEL was GREAT. Wow. That part with Wes shooting his ‘father’. VERY POWERFUL. Even though it really wasn’t his father…Wes couldn’t get over the fact that he THOUGHT it was his father and shot him multiple times!!
And you know, even though Wes didn’t say it…not only did he shot him because he was threatening Fred but also cause it WAS his father.
Yes, there were father/son issues and Fred issues. The Fred issues—Wes shot his father right away with out even thinking when his father threatened Fred.
But not only that, but he shot him MULTIPLE times. Thats where the father/son stuff comes in. Wes has a lot of problems with dear old dad. lol.
Wow. Great episode! Glad to finally see Wes in the spotlight this season!
Next up: We need a Gunn episode. Come on guys, give us a Gunn episode. (me: I’m betting despite what he thinks, Wolfram & Hart DID do something to his head while they were in there. I mean come on: HOW COULD THEY RESIST?! —personally I think it was dumb of him to let them in his head..)
Oh ya..just have to mention SPIKE is fitting into the show really well. I think I like him better on ANGEL then I did on Buffy (well, ok, evil Spike is still the best, but I like souled Spike best on Angel). He’s hilarous on Angel. And next week..oh man…next week sounds and looks great!
Anyway, over to Smallville, it was an ok one this week. Not great.
Favorite scene: Chloe slams Clark up against a filing cabinet and kisses him! A very Lois Lane-type thing to do (lol). And we all know that she’s wanted to do something like that for awhile. lol. And boy the look on Clarks face after. lol. He really should just dump Lana and start going out with Chloe!!
And ya: the Chloe, Lex, Lionel stuff is great. Who knows what will happen there (but I’m thinking that in the end it won’t turn out well for Chloe..*sigh*)
And what about Pete? He seems to be getting not much to do this season. I mean come on guys! He knows Clarks secret! You guys need to use that more, like you did last season.
DF2506
” Likes Smallville and Angel alot! But has anybody noticed: When Smallville is great this season, Angel is just ok or good and when Angel is great, Smallville is just ok or good. Hmm. lol.”
I agree about Clark and Lana on Smallville going around in circles. Eventually the merry-go-round has got to stop. What I’d really like to see is Clark meet up with some of the other villains from his future superhero career. Maybe Toyman or Prankster. Let’s see some of the real villains as teenagers rather than more new teenage villains.
As for Angel, it was pretty cool that they dealt with the stuff about Wesley and his father in a more direct manner. Also, Wes shooting him like that was surprising. Not just shooting him once though, Wes shot him repeatedly. However, one thing still gets me. Ninja Cyborgs? Could they think of anything geekier? It seems like something out of an X-Men comic from 1992.
Raphael – That, or the Sci-Fi channel.
Is it just me, or does the Sci-Fi channel just love to cancel its best shows? It cancelled all the shows that were better than Farscape, built up a fan base for Farscape, and then cancelled Farscape! (Mind you, I swore off Sci-Fi shows after MST3K, GvsE and the Invisible Man met their fates.)
I just love those multiple-concept things, like “ninja cyborgs”. It’s the same thing that, piled on, gives us Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Or “El Robotico Diablo”. Or, for that matter, Spike the Ghost Vampire.
Though others have pointed it out, I came to the same conclusion. The cyberninjas were on the side of good (as was pretty clearly hinted at the beginning) and they just wanted to get at Angel. Even though the robot held the gun on Fred, undoubtedly he meant only to threaten Wes into letting him go (not to actually shoot her.) What the robot’s makers did not take into consideration was that the very Father issues that Wes had were so deep and twisted, and his love for Fred as an accelerant, were such that he would actually shoot his own Father. And with his Dad actually being alive, isn’t that doubly wounding? Not only did you shoot your father (and have to live with that fact) but then have it NOT be your Father, etc., but have to deal with that fact with your still-living Father! That last line of the ep was just wrenching. Goes to show that horror/genre allows you to play with certain extreme situations that standard drama does not. And Mutant Enemy does this kind of thing better than almost anyone.
Ah, crap. Wrong thread.
I also quite liked Spike’s scene with Eve. He really needs more to do, and if it can’t be physical, then mind games are fun.
The ninjas should have been holding twigs around the building. I love that “hedge” bit.
It’s El Diablo Robitico…dammit.
A quick off-topic note or two.
Just have to add on to what DonBoy said. The multiple concept build-up is an old staple of Scooby Doo as well. They would take an old monster and then make a ghost of it. Like the ghost of the werewolf.
In fact, our host, Peter David, may have come up with something similar in Young Justice. When we first ran across Turk, he was an evil archer. The next time he was a werewolf. So he was an evil archer werewolf? That one still has me a bit confused.
If I were Lana, I’d hate Clark at this point. He’s always rescuing her. Always. And this time she was humiliated publicly before he rescued her. She knows he’s keeping secrets from her, too. I’m surprised she can still stand to be in the same room with him.
Spike has been getting on my nerves this season. All he does is walk around and be an ášš to people. It was amusing for the first couple of episodes, but his character is rapidly wearing thin. Not that it’s his fault — if I were a ghost and I couldn’t move far, I’d probably just wander around and make fun of people, too.
At least this will (hopefully) get resolved in the next episode.
I’m ok with the fact that robo-dad didn’t try very hard to kill Wesley. It seemed that he intended to leave W&H with Wesley still believing him to be his father. It would give him some power over him and leave the fang gang still believing that they were up against the Watcher’s Council.
Anyways, I loved this episode. Alexis Denisof is amazing. And Spike was hilarious. His afraid of the dark freak out and “head boy” announcement to Angel were classic. And hopefully the next episode will elevate him past his role as the comedic relief of the show.
And about Smallville… ok, does anyone else here get a little queasy whenever they hear critics call it a “riveting drama”? The acting doesn’t always suck and the dialogue is occasionally decent (though in ep2 Clark’s excited, “Hey Lex, we thought you were dead!” makes me laugh every friggin time)… but I just can’t take it seriously.
There is absolutely no reason why Clark should stay away from Lana. Maybe there was at first, but it feels like at the end of each episode she leaves him with a reason to just go for it. They could at least have the decency to come up with a passable reason for him to give her. But it seems that it’s all about keeping them apart for no apparent reason.
Smallville:
The Luthor family dynamics are interesting, especially since Lex secretly killed his parents as revealed in “The Unauthorized Biography of Lex Luthor” graphic novel.
BTW: Where is Mrs. Lionel Luthor?
Meanwhile: Chloe is the big mystery to me. While I can see the Lois like qualities, who truly knows that character’s future except the people behind the series.
And who says Clark will still be a virgin when he marries Lois? While his ‘boy scout’ persona makes it probable, that’s not a 100% guarantee.
On a related note: how long is the series planning to put off high school graduation? Even if Clark is a senior this year, they’ve already established the relative ‘closeness’ of Metropolis to Smallville. Clark could go on to Metro U. as per established history, and still come home at least on weekends. And if Pete, Lana, and Chloe all happen to attend the same university…
ANGEL:
Although he turned out to be a fake, Wesley’s ‘father’ did give us a peek into what was happening in the rest of the Buffy/Whedon universe. More please.
Say am I the only one who noticed someone saying up there that Angel’s season 6 has been confirmed?? Because even though I’d LOVE that news, I have a teensy feeling that it’s not quite the case yet. Was it a joke? Didn’t catch the punchline.
For one this is hardly the time when that is decided and secondly, it would’ve been all over the net by now I’d say….
Oh and yeah I agree, Cyberdad’s bosses are the ‘good guys’ or at least perceive themselves to be. They didn’t actually kill anyone except the presumably evil arms dealer. So maybe they didn’t want to kill Wes unless truly necessary. Not that far fetched. ‘Angel’ has always had more shades of grey than ‘Buffy’
Speaking of MST3k:
At the end of January 2004, MST3k will likely be off the air for the first time in almost 15 years. Sci-Fi apparently won’t exercise its option to broadcast reruns of the last 3 seasons.
Of course, with the number of episodes Sci-Fi *was* rerunning dwindling to a trickle, this isn’t a huge surprise, but still…it sucks.
Maybe Trio can pick up some of the episodes—-it would work well alongside their 80s Letterman repeats.
-D.
P.S. Oh, and Peter: Maybe you could group the WB shows together for one roundup, and combine the two major network shows in a separate thread. (You guessed it, I’d rather see one big TV Roundup. Mu hu ha ha ha ha! Or as Peter would say: “Bwahahahahaha!”)
Re: Clark being a virgin when he married Lois:
Two words. Lori Lemaris. If you’ve seen the Futurama episode where they found submerged Atlanta, you know what I’m saying. That’s enough to put you off sex for a while.
>>I too marked out with the “elektra” moment. And it may just be me, but deep down, I almost they pull a swerve and Sloane really is good, since no one expects it. I also see that Jack’s heel turn won’t take much at this point. <<<<<
Is this Smallville or Angel? Who is Sloane and Jack?
Drusilla my fave character from Buffy. Glad to see her on Angel. I miss Buffy!! I guess Angel is the next best thing now only if they would do a movie version! Sniff..:)
I think the “cyber-ninja” organization is “good” in the same respect that the non-insane Maggie Walsh part of the Initiative was good. They were a powerful force for good, but their leader (maggie, not Riley) was insane…
Except it’s not a “niggling detail”. There was the whole bit in this episode where Eve was trying to psych out Angel with the “you don’t trust Wesley” riff…which would make no sense from Wes’ viewpoint as he never kidnapped/tried to rescue Connor.
Which all seems like set-up for a resolution to the questions you have. Considering how much continuity they’ve shed (the Gunn/Fred relationship just stopped with no fall-out), there’s got to be a point to bringing up Conner every couple of episodes.
And they’ve not spent much time dwelling on Wesley’s misadventures of the past couple of seasons (this is the first episode that they spent more than a few minutes on him), and there’s really not much point in answering these questions *until* they bring the Conner sub-plot into the fore. Unless connected to an A-plot, this really isn’t something very interesting to the new and returned fans who didn’t watch the last couple of seasons (and if the ratings are correct, there’s a good number of them)… it would just be characters sitting around going “remember when?… Why did we do that?” Something you can easily (and entertainingly) pull off when Conner shows up.
Lee Houston, Junior posted:
The Luthor family dynamics are interesting, especially since Lex secretly killed his parents as revealed in “The Unauthorized Biography of Lex Luthor” graphic novel.
Many believe this is what they’re playing at in Lionel’s backstory.
BTW: Where is Mrs. Lionel Luthor?
Clearly established as having died of some incurable disease. It’s been mentioned in several episodes; if you pick up the season 1 DVD (which I don’t have yet), I’m sure you’ll find numerous mentions.
Meanwhile: Chloe is the big mystery to me. While I can see the Lois like qualities, who truly knows that character’s future except the people behind the series.
Chloe is one of my favorite parts of the show, and I have a big-time crush on Alison Mack. All that said, I can’t see her character surviving the series. Hope I’m wrong.
And who says Clark will still be a virgin when he marries Lois? While his ‘boy scout’ persona makes it probable, that’s not a 100% guarantee.
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind that kind of divergence from the comics. On the other hand, these characters are supposed to be around 16, so…
On a related note: how long is the series planning to put off high school graduation? Even if Clark is a senior this year,
Clark, Chloe, Lana and Pete are all juniors this year. This has been clearly established more than once — they’ve even mentioned their status as juniors this season. The series started with the four of them as freshmen, and they’re now all 16-17 years old (note, additionally, that they’re all driving now — in season one, they were riding the bus to school). Next year, they’ll be seniors, and 17-18 (some people — like me — graduate high school at 17, depending on when their birthdates are and the local laws).
they’ve already established the relative ‘closeness’ of Metropolis to Smallville. Clark could go on to Metro U. as per established history, and still come home at least on weekends. And if Pete, Lana, and Chloe all happen to attend the same university…
The producers have, in the past, spoken of a five-year plan. If they stick with that, they’d have to do at least one year post-Smallville High, unless all four of the obviously bright teens are held back a year. Perhaps Smallville has a good community college? Though I can’t see Chloe, for one, settling for “13th grade”…
the reason the “father” didn’t kill wesley was because the cyborgs were good guys. The only reason they pulled a gun on fred was because the mission was in danger.
Remember angel at the end saying “we have to watch out for the good guys now too?”
The only people actually killed by the cyborgs were bad guys… the weopons dealers.
Regarding Smallville but more specifically Pete Ross:
People here have been citing Pete’s knowledge of Clark’s secret and that the writers should be using that knowledge more this season.
POSSIBLE SPOILER….
Pete’s mother is going to be introduced in an episode later this year.
What this has to do with Pete’s knowledge of Clark’s secret, only that episode and time will tell.
However, this Pete-centric episode, possibly the only one this year, seems to be like a bone thrown to those of us that want to see more of the character. Of course, it’s already been written and filmed so that’s simply hind/foresight rearing its ugly head.
Now, this is my question:
When is the secret that Jonathan Kent, boxed in by Lionel Luthor’s threats against the adoption of Clark, helped LL to run Pete’s family out of business going to come out?
Couple Pete’s knowledge of Clark’s secret with this other Kent secret (if Pete ever learns it) and Pete seems to me to be a perfect crony of the future Lex Luthor.
I’d be more interested in watching Pete play a role in the revelation (justified or not, you decide) of just who Clark Kent is and it would be a helluva lot better position for the character than the non-existent role he has now.
Angel: Great episode, possibly the best since…well…at least since Angel himself became the least interesting character in the show. The shooting scene reminded me of the scene in Firefly where Zoe has to chose between the lives of wash and Mal and doesn’t waste a second deciding.
My thoughts on why Android Dad didn’t kill Wesley… could be that he didn’t want to be exposed as a fake. If Wes believes that his real father betrayed him, wouldn’t that work to detract from any revenge he’d plan in the wake of Father (obligatory B&B reference, there!) absconding?
Then again, he’d probably ahev foudn otu sooner or later when he checked in with Mother (obligatory Prisoner reference, there?)
John
Why hasn’t anyone mentioned the welcome return of Roy Dotrice to the small screen? How ironic he should be playing a “Father.”
Of course, it makes no sense for Chloe to be a junior. As I’ve noted hereabouts before, from season one episode one on, she’s been established as in control of the school paper…which had enough computers and resources that it couldn’t be something she’d set up on day one. Ditto Lana’s queen bee status relative to the rest of the school; dating the star quarterback only goes so far after all. But you’re right that apparently the powers-that-be do think the four of them are all class of ’05.
It may be that the cyborgs are actually Watchers who were injured and disfigured but survived the explosion of their headquarters. It would explain the access to the Watcher’s records that was speculated made the impersonation of Wesley’s dad possible.
Love this arrangement as these are the only two shows in the roundup that I watch.
Angel:
I think this so far, the best episode of the season. I loved how Wes immediately morphed back into the bumbling buffoon he was in Season at the sight of his father. As far as continuity issues go, if he doesn’t remember kidnapping Connor, then what was his motivation for “hitting the gym” and making his transformation into the more rugged guy he is today. The shooting of robodad scene was very effective two. He fired like five times!! That’s serious dad issues there. Spike’s fascination with the term “head boy” was hilarious as well, almost as much as when he told Gunn to quiet so that he could concentrate.
BTW, anyone else thing that Alexis Denisoff would be a perfect Reed Richards in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie?
Smallville:
Another green K mutant, another episode where Peter does a short walk on for exposition, and another Clark/Lana Dawson moment.
At least Chloe is now throwing in with Lex for protection. That at least show progress.
My take on this week’s Smallville (copied from my LJ)
-Anywho..it was an OK episode..a little strange for it to be aired during November sweeps..(I still think “Perry” should’ve aired this month but then again it’d be too gimmicky).
-I liked that fact that (Peter agrees) that this FOTW (Freak of the Week) was making a HUGE impact between Clark and Lana. Think in the past FOTWs never got in the way of those two…well maybe Ian in Dichotic but then again Chloe was also in that too…
-So….Chloe and Lex are joining forces against Lionel….hmm….verryyyyyyyyyy interesting. I’ll bet anyone a thousand bucks its gonna be EXTREMELY messy if Lionel finds out after since he approached Chloe to back off researching Lex
-Like how Clark melted the road with his heat vision…wonder when next big power will come…
-Anywho next week’s episode looks good….especially since its a non-FOTW AND Patrick Bergin guest starring (the one responsible for hitting Julia Roberts in Sleeping with the Enemy).
hide in plain sight..Maybe it is the Watcher’s council who is behind this? or a rogue splinter group that is no less powerful or week than any other part of the council.
For all we know the android could have been made with his father’s knowledge and approval.
and maybe Wes was being tested this episode……
who knows?
…of course. He was the priest on Picket Fences – killed by an uzi, if I remember. Liked Shoes.
Clark was a virgin on “Lois and Clark.”
Woah, wait a second here. Did you really watch the Angel episode? The whole reason Wes wasn’t just killed off by the cyborg is because part of it’s intention was obviously to further place a wedge between Wes and his father or watcher’s council or the generally “good” parties that he could ally himself with at some point in the future. It was a ruse, and a super well planned one. They just didn’t expect Wes to be capable of shooting his father (if caught). In all, the bad folks in “lineage” were extremely good bad guys and I can’t find a problem with the episode, beyond a reasonable doubt. Dude, think fully about the next Angel episode you watch, before you just rant thoughtlessly about an aspect.