I used to post on the John Byrne board when he’d go off on another one of his inaccurate rants about me. No point nowadays. Not only does the merest mention of my name cause denizens to cry “Off topic” or tremble in fear that a fight might break out and disturb the peace), but John announced that he now has the power to lock up threads and delete posts to cut down on some of the “twaddle.” The hilarious bit was that he announced it in a thread titled “Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair.” It is gloriously ironic that he quoted the famed Shelley poem “Ozymandias,” a cautionary parable about the futility of egomania and the emptiness of self-aggrandization. It’s the most unintentionally self-revelatory thing John’s said since he used a quote from a fictional Nazi as his sig line.
In any event, John–who never hesitates to castigate others for proclaiming to be mindreaders, but doesn’t hesitate to put forward his opinions on my state of mind as fact–claimed, “PAD is evidentally one of those people who cannot separate himself from his work, and so has taken each of my comments as a personal attack, responding with personal attacks, including most unprofessional “commentary” in the comic books he writes.”
Well, no. I’ve pointed out that some of his critiques of my work were wildly inaccurate (for instance, holding up Spidey 2099 #1 as an example of how to do a first issue wrong because the hero never appears in costume…except he does, for eight pages. Later John admitted he hadn’t actually read it, but stood by his opinion nonetheless.) And I’ve taken his personal attacks as personal attacks (for instance, his claiming that I advocated the concept of people standing by and doing nothing while policemen were beaten to death.) But I’ve written quite a bit more than John has, and separating myself from the work has become pretty easy. Unfortunately, John doesn’t quite seem to be able to reciprocate. For instance, he obviously thought the sequence in “Captain Marvel #2” in which Rick Jones laughs at the Hulk Annual was some sort of retaliation directed at John. No. I would have done the same sequence no matter who wrote that idiot annual, presuming the editor let me.
Jeez. Jack Kirby created Funky Flashman and HouseRoy, obvious Stan Lee and Roy Thomas pastiches. What an unprofessional that Jack Kirby was. And hey, how about that story featuring a superpowered character visually based on Jim Shooter, right down to the acne scars as I recall, blowing off his own foot with a blast beam. Who is the unprofessional person who drew that story? I’m trying to remember…
PAD
• 
He’s going off on Erik Larsen as well, which makes me think that it’s not a direct attack at either of you two, but he’s dissing me because I like your works and Savage Dragon. =)
Okay, what was that about egomania?
I think it’s a sad state of affairs when the most interesting thing about comics is the infighting…Byrne-fans hate PAD, PAD-fans hate Jemas and Quesada, Jemas and Quesada hate quality comics unless they’re done by “high profile” creative teams…when will the madness end?
I think it’s a sad state of affairs when the most interesting thing about comics is the infighting…Byrne-fans hate PAD, PAD-fans hate Jemas and Quesada, Jemas and Quesada hate quality comics unless they’re done by “high profile” creative teams…when will the madness end?
As a guess? When/if it’s covered as a feature piece on “The Daily Show” and everyone involved is made out to look like complete buffoons. That’ll probably put a wrap to it.
PAD
I know this is totally off topic PAD but you may want to find out what is going on with the canadian distribution of One Knight Only I still haven’t seen it in a bookstore, I can get it from Amazon, but I really don’t want to put anything on my credit card, at the moment.
Never did like that John Byrne. Man couldn’t write his way out of a Mad Libs.
Infighting is the fan-boys crack. Knowing what writer dislikes what artist, and so on, seems to be personal accomplishments for some.
Who’s John Byrne? Is he a writer? Whats the beef with you two? Whats a Mad Lib? Otis Jackson? Where’s Criss Cross?
Can’t we all just get along? 😉
Matthew Hawes
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If you don’t mind me asking, what was the line from the fictional nazi he used in his sig?
I’m bizzarely curious as to what goes on at this board… does any one have link they can post? Thanks…
Sorry have just found it!
Oh my good grief though…
Do we sound/read like that? It’s like a little-pat-yourself-on-the back-JB-club-over-there…
Even more bizzarely am reminded of the Simpson’s episode where Stan Lee is in the comic shop convinced he can turn the Hulk 😉
It took me… hmmm… 15 years after my first read of Byrne’s tenure on Star Brand to Get It, and when I did, I wasn’t impressed. It might’ve been transparent to 12-year-olds, but certainly wasn’t to the grownups.
PAD you’ve wrote a lot and continue to write good comics. Byrne put out Lab Rats. He’s had a great career, but he’s cooked. I’d ignore him like comic book readers do.
Okay, I gotta know. What quote from what fictional Nazi did Byrne use? Could it be….
“I know…NOTH-ing!” (Sergeant Schultz, “Hogan’s Heroes”)
“Do we sound/read like that? It’s like a little-pat-yourself-on-the back-JB-club-over-there…”
It is the same here exept that it’s the “mega-pat-yourself-on-the-back-PAD-club-over-here”. Other then that, “it’s the same difference as Jimbo” would say.
Although unlike Peter, John does not start threads to bash other creators, but he does jump in the fray once in a while when there is some bashing going on.
Threads like this one sadly shows that no matter how old some creators are, too often they will always remain big babies.
In an ideal world, Peter and John would leave each other alone. But it the real world, it will never happen.
John seems to be willing to make the first step by asking his fans not to post your comments or threads concerning you on his fan site.
So the question is… are you willing to make a first step too??
Starting this thread is an indication that you probably are not. But maybe…. maybe you might decide to make just a small effort and give it a shot.
We shall see.
I used to post on the John Byrne board when he’d go off on another one of his inaccurate rants about me. No point nowadays. Not only does the merest mention of my name cause denizens to cry “Off topic” or tremble in fear that a fight might break out and disturb the peace), but John announced that he now has the power to lock up threads and delete posts to cut down on some of the “twaddle.”
You should post occasionally on the Quesada board. It’s sort of the unoffical Marvel board. You’ve got quite a bit of fans there, a lot of other creators make appearances, and Quesada himself is a relatively sporadic presence and enforces moderation only on the occasion that there are complaints about trolls. Heck, I expect he wouldn’t even have a problem with Byrne popping in…
“I’ve pointed out that some of his critiques of my work were wildly inaccurate (for instance, holding up Spidey 2099 #1 as an example of how to do a first issue wrong because the hero never appears in costume…except he does, for eight pages.”
With that statement right there, JB proves that he’s out of touch with what fans want now days. Or what constitutes a best selling book for that matter. Ultimate Spider Man, one of Marvel’s best renditions of a young Peter Parker, didn’t have the costume appear for three or four issues.
The only thing it had going for it was dead on writing and characterization. Something Byrne is no longer familiar with.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved his FF, Superman, Alpha Flight, hëll even Namor. Course I was twelve at the time. I admit he had a good run, but the man didn’t know when to quit.
He’s what I imagine Elvis would be like if he had lived. Way past his prime, and trying to convince everyone of how great he still is.
-I’m out!
I’m still holding out for an epic graphic novel written by David, drawn by Byrne, and published by Fantagraphics. Best comic book ever!
I know this has been asked many times but, as a fan of both creators, I would really like to know, just out of curiosity, why there’s such bad blood between them. Can someone please explain that?
It’s funny just how often Byrne will castigate someone for doing the exact same thing that he does. One example is the time that a poster criticized a Byrne work on the board and speculated that Byrne would reply with some sort of “consider the source” shot in reply.
Byrne came back and accused the poster of having a martyr complex. This from the man who wrote a column recently that lamented that no matter what he does or says, fans will criticize him.
Or he’ll mock fans who criticize his work without actually having read it … while blasting the Hulk movie every chance he gets, a movie he refuses to go and watch.
Or he’ll complain about superhero comic book films that lack “fidelity” to the source material, while he goes and does his “Chapter One”‘s. (Then he laughs at the fans who like the films but don’t like Chapter One, because those fans are being so “inconsistent.”)
PAD … people can call you immature if they like, but I think it’s great that you call Byrne on some of this garbage.
No. I would have done the same sequence no matter who wrote that idiot annual, presuming the editor let me.
The editor shouldn’t have. I know I wouldn’t have allowed it — leave the grudges off the page (this occurs in other media, as well — no, you can’t make a dig at this film critic, no matter how wrongheaded his review was, in your column, and so on).
I was immensely disappointed by the Captain Marvel sequence. For one thing, no matter how bad you thought the annual was (and I didn’t enjoy it that much), it was the official Hulk book — that means it’s “right” until a later Hulk writer says it’s “wrong.”
It just seems appropriate that you don’t comment on that in another book *unless* you’re working on the official Hulk book down the line. I wouldn’t be keen on the JLA writer knocking the current runs of Flash, WW, Batman, or Superman — even if I agreed with that writer. It’s just professional civility.
And while you were the official Hulk writer when you dismissed a Hulk appearance in Spider-Man, I personally found that meanspirited. Don’t put it on the page.
Anyway, I’m puzzled and disappointed by this whole “feud.” Hey, I freely admit I have trouble forgiving people for slights, especially if they were clearly wrong, but even so, I’ve found it’s healthier for me to just not waste energy and time on these people. Why fight the battle? What can be won? Friendship from someone you don’t respect? An apology you don’t believe will ever come? Move on.
But the examples (Spidey 2099 and Atlantis Chronicles and the Chapter One debate from years ago) that are constantly recited seem like you’re going to just play Ahab. Again, what’s the point? Let the whale go.
Hey, Zhen, for someone using an ilythiiri name, you sure do throw stones. I completely understand why Mr. David feels no obligation — ethical or otherwise — to ignore another Big Comics Industry Name’s attempts to poison a competitor’s public image.
For example:
Zhen dil Oloth is evidentally one of those people who cannot comment on a behavior he claims to eschew (failure to “leave each other alone” when two people have unkind things to say about each other) without resorting to gramatically erroneous and inconsistently generalized grade-school namecalling (“too often they will always remain big babies”). He positions himself as the Voice of Superiority, using a derogatory and even supercilious tone of condescension: he, the wise and ever-so-mature, looks down upon this topic from his lofty perch of almost ten years in the popular media industry, dispensing patronizing wisdom to the lowly owner of this website about how a PROPER adult should behave. Clearly, Mr. “Oloth” is here as a provocateur and a spy for the hated enemy!
Jarissa, on the other hand, is a GENUINE paragon of gracious and genteel behavior. She benevolently suggests that all posts from Zhen dil Oloth be automatically deleted, unless of course he manages to write them wholly in grammatically correct ilythiiri. Anything less would be codependent enabling on our part, and thusly he’ll never learn anything!
You see? You shouldn’t have to ignore that kind of codswallop from me in order to “prove” that you are not always a big baby. I just claimed to know your mind better than you know it yourself, and put meaning into your typing that you might not have meant at all. It’d be even worse if I were to then start dictating how you must act if you’re to be considered an adult. Heck, I’ve only got one published gaming credit, and it’s not a big one at that. So where do I get off saying what you think, *how* you think, much less how you OUGHT to be deciding on anything?
And, in the same vein, where do you get off telling Mr. David how to run his board? The man gets paid great heaping piles of pennies to write passionately because he writes well, and after all this time I’d say he knows his craft — but if John Byrne has his way, the buying public will believe things about our host that are not true but nonetheless cause them to avoid his work.
Do the drow ignore a poisoner’s attempt? No, of course not, especially when it’s done without any style or elegance. Do the Good Guys have a moral obligation to ignore a poisoner’s attempt, just because it’s meant to destroy their livelihoods rather than their bodies? No.
And, in the same vein, where do you get off telling Mr. David how to run his board?
Well, PAD does comment on how Byrne runs his board. I visit both and while there couldn’t be two more divergent “moderating” styles, I just shrug and believe “too each his own.”
I appreciate the freedom that PAD extends the posters on this board. That freedom, though, will extend to criticism. I can’t imagine that PAD would mind all that much.
I just wish both sides wouldn’t take this as a sort of “shirts” vs. “skins” type thing.
but if John Byrne has his way, the buying public will believe things about our host that are not true but nonetheless cause them to avoid his work.
Sorry for the double but may I just add that this is highly unlikely? Byrne’s comments about PAD’s run on the Hulk never stopped me from reading the Hulk or later Young Justice and Supergirl. You’re giving Byrne way too much power. You’re also confusing lies with opinions. Negative opinions that are critical about one’s work aren’t “poison” while they can affect one’s livelihood. PAD himself has taken on Liefeld, McFarlane, and Byrne and I think it would be unfair to say that that criticism of their work was “poison” intended to take food from their mouths.
The only “lies” I’ve seen attributed to Byrne regarding PAD are mostly of a personal level or, at least as PAD counters them, so transparent as to only convince a moron. Larsen recently said ridiculous (in my opinion) things about Perez’s work, but that all seemed like a fair expression of an opinion to me.
It does seem curious, though, that there’s all this focus on Byrne, who has little to no power over PAD’s career (unless I’m incredibly mistaken) and yet very little focus on Quesada, who has publicly threatened to fire PAD and has publicly made what I found to be inaccurate and uncomplimentary statements about PAD’s work that seem to me more “poisonous” than anything Byrne has done or could do.
“Know thine enemy… excellent advice,” as the Doctor put it.
SER wrote “I was immensely disappointed by the Captain Marvel sequence. For one thing, no matter how bad you thought the annual was (and I didn’t enjoy it that much), it was the official Hulk book — that means it’s “right” until a later Hulk writer says it’s “wrong.” “
Until another writer says it’s wrong? Isn’t that what PAD was doing? In that sequence, we saw that the Hulk origin story was not “real” in the Marvel Universe but was a “comic book” printed in the Marvel Universe.
SER wrote “I was immensely disappointed by the Captain Marvel sequence. For one thing, no matter how bad you thought the annual was (and I didn’t enjoy it that much), it was the official Hulk book — that means it’s “right” until a later Hulk writer says it’s “wrong.” “
Douglas replied: Until another writer says it’s wrong? Isn’t that what PAD was doing? In that sequence, we saw that the Hulk origin story was not “real” in the Marvel Universe but was a “comic book” printed in the Marvel Universe. >>
PAD was writing Captain Marvel. While Rick Jones was a character in Captain Marvel, that was more likely a favor by the Hulk office (as Rick is a Hulk character). Writing Captain Marvel doesn’t give you any authority over the current Hulk book. Like it or not, what goes on it is “real.” You can change it when you’re the next Hulk writer.
Again, this is *my* rule of civility. As an editor myself, I would never have allowed it to pass. That’s my professional call. As a reader, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
Consider this: What if in She-Hulk, Avengers West Coast, and Namor, Byrne made a point of dismissing everything he didn’t like in the current FF as being “fake.” No matter how much we might prefer the Byrne FF run, such actions would be wrong.
Personally, I *hate* what Mark Waid did to Doctor Doom in the current FF. That’s not the Doom I know. That’s just some punk hood. However, if I were the writer of any other Marvel book and had a panel in which Doctor Doom, in his normal armor, commented on how one of his robots had gone “wonky,” that would be out of line.
This reminds me: Byrne commented on a Doom X-Men appearance in a classic issue of FF. However, as FF writer, he “owned” Doom and had the final say. Also, there was at least a degree of professional respect to how it was done — it wasn’t dismissed as a dream (like the Hulk appearance in Spider-Man) or as a goofy story in a fictional comic (the Captain Marvel issue had Rick *laughing* at the issue, openly mocking it — that’s just tacky). No, the FF issue treated the X-Men issue as real — it just revealed an untold element to it.
So, perhaps that’s my major problem with it — the “joking” tone that I find meanspirited. Again, I’m speaking from my *personal* viewpoint as a professional and as a person as to what offends me.
It just strikes me as a very small thing to do. And while I disagree with Quesada’s position regarding “But I Digress,” PAD *does* often use it as a way to broadside people, which I used to find amusing as a kid (I even did my share of it when I wrote a column in college) but pleases me less these days.
I recall the *three* columns PAD wrote mocking Byrne’s Chapter One (for both Hulk and Spider-Man). I *agreed* with PAD for the most part (I didn’t like the changes Byrne made) but I remember thinking, “C’mon, surely there were far WORSE comics that came out that month — Byrne at his worst still kicks the behind of a lot of guys out there.” And then I had a further thought: “Why even go after the guys who suck *more*? Why not spend three columns praising *good* comics and *good* creators and not hurling personal grenades?” That epiphany changed how I wrote and it changed how I looked at BID.
The only fact that matters to me about PAD and Byrne is that i know of at least five people who will buy a book simply because PAD wrote it and those same five people will NOT buy a book simply because Byrne wrote it
Hëll i bought the entire run of supergirl, and i hate DC (mainstream universe DC) comics.
It does seem curious, though, that there’s all this focus on Byrne, who has little to no power over PAD’s career (unless I’m incredibly mistaken) and yet very little focus on Quesada, who has publicly threatened to fire PAD and has publicly made what I found to be inaccurate and uncomplimentary statements about PAD’s work that seem to me more “poisonous” than anything Byrne has done or could do.
There was certainly focus while it was relevant. Remember the “I don’t do well with threats” posting? His whole approach was that one couldn’t be earning money from Marvel and also be in a position to criticize the company.
Since then, with the hiring of various comics journalists, he’s had to specifically withdraw that rather unofficial policy.
PAD
Douglas replied: Until another writer says it’s wrong? Isn’t that what PAD was doing? In that sequence, we saw that the Hulk origin story was not “real” in the Marvel Universe but was a “comic book” printed in the Marvel Universe. >>
PAD was writing Captain Marvel. While Rick Jones was a character in Captain Marvel, that was more likely a favor by the Hulk office (as Rick is a Hulk character). Writing Captain Marvel doesn’t give you any authority over the current Hulk book. Like it or not, what goes on it is “real.” You can change it when you’re the next Hulk writer.
No. I can change it when the editor who oversees it says I can change it. If you check the credits, you’ll see that the same editor who oversaw the Hulk annual also edited Captain Marvel.
Bottom line, he didn’t like that Hulk story. I didn’t like that Hulk story. Best of my knowledge, no one at Marvel liked it. I think they felt it was a mistake it saw print at all. I was more than happy to make it go away, and they were more than happy to let me.
Writers come in disliking other storylines, other characters, and they undo them or toss them aside routinely. It’s been that way for decades. For John to act as if it’s anything other than SOP is just disingenous.
PAD
See, that’s the funny thing about the way Peter makes such references. If you don’t know the background of the joke, he writes it so that it just blends into the story innocuously. I never knew the background about that story, and never knew that it had anything to do with Byrne. Similarly, when Peter had the merged Hulk fight Doctor Octopus, I had no idea that it was a reference to a previous story by Erik Larsen, or that the “holding back” comment was a reference to something that one of the Image founders (McFarlane?) said.
By contrast, when Erik Larsen devoted a double page spread in an early issue of Savage Dragon to dissing John Byrne, he did so with all the subtlety of a lead pipe. The sequence did not add anything to the story, nor even have anything to do with it, so he ended up wasting two pages in having thinly disguised caricatures of Namor, She-Hulk and others mouth his opinions of Byrne’s work, even repeating that tired old “Byrne abandons his books” idea. Funny, though, how Erik criticized Peter for the Hulk/Doc Ock sequence, which at least wasn’t so obvious.
Just like Paul Anthony Llossas, I’d like to know where this PAD and JB bashing stems from.
Consider this: What if in She-Hulk, Avengers West Coast, and Namor, Byrne made a point of dismissing everything he didn’t like in the current FF as being “fake.” No matter how much we might prefer the Byrne FF run, such actions would be wrong.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t this have been during Steve Englehart’s tenure on Fantastic Four…a run that he himself once described in a letter to the now-defunct magazine Amazing Heroes, “…issue after issue of dream sequences?”
I really think that John Byrne, Peter David and Erik Larsen should all get over their feuds with each other and move on. Most of the rest of the industry doesn’t care. None of them like each other.None of them ever will. What more needs to be said? This may come across as a bash against all three, but I only mean it to keep things in perspective. Don’t you think that if the three of them focused this energy spent trashing one another on their creativity instead that their books might stop getting canceled? These are three talented men, who have all done great things with their comics, but sometimes that doesn’t seem to be their primary focus anymore. Instead they’re worrying about what the other guy said while Defenders, X-Men : The Hidden Years and Young Justice are busy being cancelled. They have all had successes and they have all had flops. Time to move on before the industry moves on without them.
> Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t this have been during Steve Englehart’s tenure on Fantastic Four…a run that he himself once described in a letter to the now-defunct magazine Amazing Heroes, “…issue after issue of dream sequences?”
This the letter in question?
http://www.ffplaza.com/commcenter/transcripts/Englehart.shtml
“(for instance, holding up Spidey 2099 #1 as an example of how to do a first issue wrong because the hero never appears in costume…except he does, for eight pages. Later John admitted he hadn’t actually read it, but stood by his opinion nonetheless.)”
Sounds like the Bush administration talking about WMDs.
That explains a lot. Those stories always read a lot like “this is what I’d be doing if I wasn’t being dumped off the book”. Sort of like PAD’s final Hulk story that way…
That is indeed the one.
Just out of curiosity – can someone post the link to the John Byrne website. I have looked, but can’t seem to find it.
Thanks!
Could someone refresh my memory? What was the plot of the Hulk annual that appeared in Peter’s book?
Richard Franklin said:
“Don’t you think that if the three of them focused this energy spent trashing one another on their creativity instead that their books might stop getting canceled?”
I think this is kind of a silly thing to say. It assumes that PAD, Byrne, and Larsen do nothing but plotting all day about how they’re going to bash the others.
Simply judging by how much writing PAD does, both in and out of the comics industry, in my opinion it’s ridiculous to say that he’s expending any great amount of energy on a feud. Saying that any of PAD’s titles, or any of the titles you mentioned, were cancelled because the creators had expended so much energy bashing other creators is pretty flimsy, and I don’t buy it.
I don’t know why X-Men: The Hidden Years was cancelled, but considering what a curmudgeon Byrne is said to be, I could imagine it was cancelled just to get Byrne away from Marvel. YJ was cancelled to make way for Teen Titans, and Defenders was cancelled for so many reasons I don’t even want to get into it.
One of my favorite comments ever from PAD was a few years ago regarding this whole “fued” with Byrne.
Someone (who apparently wasn’t very familiar with how freelancing goes on at Marvel) asked PAD: “When you pass John Byrne in the hallways of the Marvel offices, do you give each other dirty looks?”
PAD’s response: “Actually we high-five each other and chortle over how we’ve fooled everyone into believing there’s animosity between us.”
~Brad
“Don’t you think that if the three of them focused this energy spent trashing one another on their creativity instead that their books might stop getting canceled?”
I love when fans say stuff like that.
Now of course, if I go on a fan board where there’s arguments over whether Hal Jordan should be reinstated as Green Lantern or Donna Troy got a raw deal and say, “Don’t you think if you guys put your energies to constructive endeavors that actually mattered, you wouldn’t have to waste your lives endlessly carping online over $2.50 adventure pamphlets?”, I’d be crucified.
PAD
Frankly, I am torn by the comments made on the board. On the one hand, all of the feuding creators seem to be acting rather petty. I don’t much care for John Byrne’s work (outside his early illustrations and writing on She-Hulk, FF, and Namor) but the man does seem to have some scrupples with other people’s creations. He has talked with creators of characters before altering them dramatically, which seems to be a common curtesy. On the other hand, Byrne has also made jabs at other creators, especially in his She-Hulk book. Jen once commented that if she had stayed in the FF, she probably would have been revealed to have been the Space Phantom, a reference to Tom DeFalco’s decision to reveal that Alicia Masters had been a Skrull imposter.
Perhaps he is still feeling pained from that experience. He developed Alicia and Johny to a large degree durring their romance and eventual wedding, and all of that character growth was wiped away in an instant. Also, this isn’t the first time you’ve undone one of his stories. You penned the tale that revealed Lockjaw to be a regular dog, instead of the mutated Inhuman Byrne had revealed him as. Interestingly, the rest of the issue you retconned, dealing with Quicksilver’s attempt to expose his daughter to Terrigen mists, was heavily referenced in the X-Factor issue dealing with abortion, which was itself drastically altered by editorial. (I have long ago passed the point of rambling, but I must reiterate the request made earlier that you share with us on the board what you originally intended for those issues.)
The other side of my personality, the true comic fan, thinks that the fueds are OK so long as they don’t interfere with the comics themselves and lead to funny in jokes. And so long as the characters retain thier loyalties. I love the line you had She-Hulk utter when she guest starred in an issue of the Hulk: “This title has gone down hill ever since Byrne left.” Heh
“I love when fans say stuff like that.
Now of course, if I go on a fan board where there’s arguments over whether Hal Jordan should be reinstated as Green Lantern or Donna Troy got a raw deal and say, “Don’t you think if you guys put your energies to constructive endeavors that actually mattered, you wouldn’t have to waste your lives endlessly carping online over $2.50 adventure pamphlets?”, I’d be crucified.
PAD”
Well, you’d be right of course, but it wouldn’t be the smartest thing to do since you might alienate potential readers.
I apologize for getting involved. I really think the three of you are very talented and it seems a waste to see three guys with this kind of talent wasting their time on being bitter and petty rather than doing something constructive with their time. I was honestly trying to bring some perspective on this, but you seem content to be petty about it so good luck and I hope you guys can keep one-upping the other guy until one of you is declared the coolest kid in high school. Personally, I respect the guy who knows when its time to walk away from a fight.
“Richard Franklin said:
“Don’t you think that if the three of them focused this energy spent trashing one another on their creativity instead that their books might stop getting canceled?”
I think this is kind of a silly thing to say. It assumes that PAD, Byrne, and Larsen do nothing but plotting all day about how they’re going to bash the others.”
You’re making a broad assumption yourself since I never stated that was all the three of them did. Spending too much time doing something isn’t the same as spending ALL of your time doing it. I was making a helpful suggestion that the three of them could do something constructive with their free time rather than continuing a feud between creators that seems pointless. I don’t see the point in picking on one another which is all the three of them are accomplishing since none of them is in the right in this situation. Meanwhile, most fans are losing interest in reading their works while they are busy worrying about what so and so said on his message board. I was actually trying to help give perspective on how stupid this situation is, but I’ve never seen any of the three of them give up on a good fight or admit they were wrong about something. I doubt they are going to change now or start showing any kind of maturity since it seems beyond them so I’ll go find something constructive to do myself since I’ve got better things to do. Adios.
Richard Franklin: I really think that John Byrne, Peter David and Erik Larsen should all get over their feuds with each other and move on.
Luigi Novi: I believe Larsen, when asked about it when he took over last Aquaman series prior to the current one from Peter, said he had moved on from it.
Mondadori, Italy’s greatest book publisher, has just published a Hulk trade paperback(they got the license from Panini comics, who publishes Marvel comics in Italian), reprinting the first 11 issues of the current Hulk series, the ones mostly written by John Byrne! The Hulk movie arrives in Italy on August 29, and Panini comics editors thought the Byrne-Garney version of Hulk was much closer to the movie Hulk than the Peter David one.
Seems Byrne took a sort of revenge over David here in Italy, but Mondadori also published the movie novelization by Pad, so I think it’s a tie!
The weird thing is that I read comics by all three guy, Erik, Peter and John (sounds like a band, eh?)… and currently enjoy their work a lot. Savage Dragon is better than it has been for a long time during the Kamandi-phase, harkening back somewhat more to the early days of the series. Generations is a complicated game witrh a see-through kind of plot… and impossible to even explain to comic-newbies…, but great fun, I just love all those variations of the Superman/batman myth and the whole timeline John is building. And Peter seemingly has come away from the Young Justice/Supergirl-debacle with a great Fallen Angel (nice joke with ‘dolf, btw), Captain Marvel is 180
I heard that Byrne said he can take you in a fight. I wouldn’t let him get away with that if I were you.
Hum… PAD? Do You really take offense from a guy who wrote “Chapter One”?
PS : and he said dirty things about your mother too 🙂
PAD said:
Now of course, if I go on a fan board where there’s arguments over whether Hal Jordan should be reinstated as Green Lantern or Donna Troy got a raw deal and say, “Don’t you think if you guys put your energies to constructive endeavors that actually mattered, you wouldn’t have to waste your lives endlessly carping online over $2.50 adventure pamphlets?”, I’d be crucified.
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all morning. Granted, I just got up, but still.
It’s so, so true. I’ve never understand “fan’s” outright viciousness when it comes to cutting on books that they don’t like, but still read. Honestly, I think the internet makes you crazy, but I’m I’m just still hungover from watching “28 Days Later” last night.
Well.. get this some one posts on the Bryne Boards that they think that JMS doesn’t get Spider-Man and I posted saying that I thought that JMS’ Amazing is a great book and I am enjoying the story. I also said that Amazing and Ulimate Spiderman were better stories then Chapter one (I am probably one of the few people that enjoyed that one) Then John Bryne Posts that I am not finding his work inferior but that of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. Well I can’t figure that one out maybe some of you can.