People are congratulating me over the press release about TMNT #1 selling out.
Except I’m not happy about it. Once again, it’s the Santayana quote: “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
When I first started writing “Captain Marvel,” what did I hear from fans? “I can’t find it in my store!” “It’s sold out!” Fans seemed to think this was a good thing. Month after month this continued, and then Marvel suddenly announced that the book was in trouble.
Supergirl #75 sold out. Supergirl #76 sold out. “Great!” quoth the fans. “Cancelled!” quoth DC.
Does everybody get it yet? When retailers don’t support my books (because I’m not, y’know, the New Hot Thing), they don’t order enough. When they don’t order enough, the books sell out. When the books sell out and the early issues are unobtainable, people won’t buy the subsequent issues, which causes orders to drop even more.
When you see future sellout announcements on–for example–“Fallen Angel”…don’t say “Hurrah!” Don’t say “Congrats!” Say “Uh oh.”
PAD
• 
If it makes you feel any better, PAD, I bought it.
🙂
I hear ya, Peter…which raises a question that’s been nagging at the the back of my mind…there have been several books that I’ve picked up in the past that seemed promising to me (the last I remember is Giffen’s Vext) but didn’t make it past the 5th issue…and we’ve seen the first 5 covers for FA…has the 6th been commissioned? And why is 5 the magic number, anyway?
Still hoping for the best, but expecting the usual…
Is there going to be a second printing? I don’t read anything else by this company, so not sure on their policies for that.
I, however, picked one up.
I bought one for myself. Maybe I should have bought 2 or 3 extra copies to sell to all those who didn’t pre-order. But then I’d be a mini-reseller…….
Can’t speak for anyone’s experience but my own, but….
When I asked for it at the store (by asking for “The new ‘Turtles’ book.”, the owner asked, “Which one? The new issue of the existing series, or the first issue of the new series?” My response: “The Peter David one.” His reaction: “I knew there was a reason I ordered kinda heavy on that one.” Then, when he was placing a re-order (partly so I can get one), found that it’s on back-order from Diamond.
So, at least in this specific example, it doesn’t seem to be a case of the retailer not supporting it, but demand still outdoing supply.
Hopefully, anyway. 🙂
According to the article at comicbookresources.com, they don’t intend to reprint it. (Although I don’t know how hard and fast that is–there have been other recent cases of companies bowing to demand and reversing these decisions.)
I’ll never understand comic book retailers. I was in my local a week ago and a guy was in looking for G-FAN magazine. He was told that they never have it in. They order one copy and the same guy buys it every month. This wasn’t a subscription copy kept behind the counter, it was “If it’s not on the magazine rack, then the guy who buys it has already come in and got it.”
This would, in most other retail industries, be an impetus to order a second copy of the magazine and attempt to sell it…
Hmmm….
Green background. I thought that was a Hulk thing, but y’know, those Turtles are green too.
Must be a subliminal thing.
Best of luck with the new series, Peter.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
Hmmm. Steven Grant has a column on Comic Book Resources about retailers that sorta dovetails into this…
But I have to agree that some of the problems of comics have to be laid at the feet of direct sales retailers; there are practices that just don’t make sense…
Dunno, but I got it(and my retailer still has a couple of copies left) and I thought it sucked.
The art was kind of milky, the plot was pretty juvenile. Is it aimed at little kids? If so, maybe I just didn’t like it because it wasn’t for me.
On the whole though, I thought it wasn’t up to Peter David’s standards.
Gotta love the corporate mind.
I mean, it’s not as if PAD is some new, on-the-rise talent with an unclear fanbase. He’s been writing comics for eons now and has his established core of loyalists who will buy (or at least try) anything with his name on it.
So you’d think that comic companies that hire him would have SOME CLUE how many copies his involvement realistically means. Its like (and I’m just making up numbers for example purposes) if CAPTAIN MARVEL sells 75,000/month why would DC expect SUPERGIRL to increase by 150,000?
It reminds me of the whole Joss Whedon/FIREFLY/Fox debacle. I like Joss and am a huge fan of the Buffy/Angel-verse but realistically, those shows never drew bang-up ratings (Buffy wasn’t even UPN, freakin’ UPN, highest rated show, stupid homoerotic wrestling was). Why Fox expected a guy with say a 2.5 rating loyal fanbase to all of a sudden draw 6’s or 7’s just because he’s on a new network is beyond me.
But then again, much of the alleged “thinking” in corporate America is as well.
Best–Chris
You can’t really blame the retailers. I know that the guy who owns my favorite comic shop barely makes ends meet. The guy didn’t get into the business to make millions of dollars. He can’t afford to order more of each book than he expects to sell. Think about it; every week dozens of new books are released, not to mention magazines, models, toys, etc. If he orders “a couple extra” of every thing every month, he’d be broke in no time.
Also, I’m not sure if this is actually encouraging, but when I picked up my copy of TMNT 1 there were 4 or 5 copies still on the shelf. So…um…yay?
Phinn
Well, I thought it was a great issue and I’ll say “uh-oh” for ya PAD on the sell-out news. I do know for a matter of fact that there are still some copies available at my local shop – http://www.buymetoys.com if anyone wants, they can go to the web site and contact them on mail ordering an issue. I know they have a few of the dealer incentive covers left as well.
-Scott
Well Peter, I know my friend who owns the store ordered like 75 copies of it. And he only had about 10 people on subs for it. And you know what ? There were only about 5 left on the shelf this wednesday.
On a side note, just saw the hulk and i thought it was awesome. I dunno if it’ll do great with mainstream public since it’s very psychological.
PUNY HUMAN!
I wanted to get the issue but did not see it anywhere at the comic store. *sigh*
I did pick up Captain Marvel though. I have been missing a few issues there. So I was really happy to hear that the current arc will be collected into a Trade in September!! 🙂
DF2506
I bought TMNT (and yes, mine was the last on the rack), and I enjoyed it enough to give the second issue a try. I have had Fallen Angel preordered at my store since it was first announced. I can’t wait (and I loved the five page preview, which PAD signed for me at Wizard Con).
I did my part by NOT buying it, ensuring that there was at least one more copy out there for someone who gave a rat’s a– about the book.
The Archie Turtles comic was the first one my son collected many years ago. He and I are both Peter David fans so I ordered it for him. I read it too. Can’t say that it was aimed at me, but my son enjoyed it and wants me to keep buying it. At 17, is he too old for nostalgia?
Anyway my dealer, who runs a small shop, still had half a dozen copies today. He’s a big PAD supporter and said he wasn’t worried about having extra copies becuase he can either sell them at shows or because he figures PAD will build an audience as it goes on.
–your pal, Hoy
The story, what there was of it, was okay, but the artwork was not very good. It was very hard to read in spots, the point that the cop and the gang guy were the two kids in the beginning was not helped by how the art was rendered and colored, and I didn’t understand why the cop had long poofy hair and that odd John Waters-type mustache.
But I hope it sells well, Peter. And I can’t wait for One Knight Only and the next New Frontier book.
Good luck!
(Btw, did you get the press kit yet?)
Whine whine whine. Stop complaining.
PAD, there is a difference this time. It’s not the retailers telling a fan, “I’m sorry, but we are sold out of ‘Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,” It’s the publisher telling the retailers (and fans) that *they* are sold out. Which means that you sold your entire print run!
If that’s not good news, what is?
Now it’s up to the publisher, we retailers did our job. For once, you don’t have to blame us.
I bought it (from the guy above, hey Matt), and I liked the story, but I agree that the art was kinda crappy.
I was acctually amazed to find a couple of coppies at a small comic shop in my country (The Netherlands) also it was one of the view comics which’s cover was shown with the new releases on a Dutch comicbook-store-site (well, you know what I mean:P).
So that proves that there is some faith in this new comic book series.
I don’t think that this series will get canceld after 12 issues.
It might not make it to 100 or maybe 75 but it’ll have a decent run, trust me:)
I was acctually amazed to find a couple of coppies at a small comic shop in my country (The Netherlands) also it was one of the view comics which’s cover was shown with the new releases on a Dutch comicbook-store-site (well, you know what I mean:P).
So that proves that there is some faith in this new comic book series.
I don’t think that this series will get canceld after 12 issues.
It might not make it to 100 or maybe 75 but it’ll have a decent run, trust me:)
The cop with the “long poofy hair and that odd John Waters-type mustache” was actually based on Kevin Eastman, one of the creators of the TMNT.
Leeds: Whine whine whine. Stop complaining.
Luigi Novi: I was neither whining nor complaining. I was stating my opinion of the book, wishing Peter luck with its sales, and stating my interest in his other upcoming works. Last time I checked, after all, this was a discussion board for people to express their opinions. I’m sorry that you dismiss those that don’t mirror your own as “whining” and “complaining.” Take care.
Luigi Novi: I was neither whining nor complaining. I was stating my opinion of the book, wishing Peter luck with its sales, and stating my interest in his other upcoming works. Last time I checked, after all, this was a discussion board for people to express their opinions. I’m sorry that you dismiss those that don’t mirror your own as “whining” and “complaining.” Take care.
Leeds: Don’t worry, I wasn’t talking to you, my post just ended up underneath yours.
You know what, I am really getting tired of taking the blame here. I ordered more copies of Captain Marvel than any other Marvel title my store has EVER carried. More copies than I ever possibly believed my store could sell– and I run an anime store, mind you, it’s not like I have a huge mainstream comic following walking through my door. Yet I pushed it like the second coming.
What thanks do I get? “The retailers aren’t supporting me.”
When we sold out of Supergirl #76, I increased my orders on 77 and ordered higher on 78. When those sold out I increased them again, and so on, and so on, right up to the end. And I know other retailers did too, because the book kept climbing higher and higher in the rankings. And we kept selling out, getting more, and selling out again, despite the fact that when “the early issues are unobtainable, people won’t buy the subsequent issues.” Well, I went the extra mile for you and got the extra issues anyway, and you know what, people bought ’em. Personally, I think the DC staff were being a bunch of idiots for cancelling it, because obviously the “Hail Kara” pass was working. When DC gets this kind of momentum on a Vertigo title they call it a success. But does DC get a single word of criticism for jumping the gun on the cancelation? (And suspiciously starting a storyline with a new Supergirl the very month after the cancelation?) Oh, no. Not a word. What’s the only thing I hear? What thanks do I get for my increased orders of Supergirl? “The retailers aren’t supporting me.”
And now here we go again with TMNT. Which, yes, I have been supporting in my shop.
Now maybe you’ve spoken with Dreamwave and you know something I don’t, but every time Dreamwave has sold out of a Transformers comic this quickly, they’ve done a second printing. Have you talked to them to see if they will be doing one for TMNT? Because odds are, if they follow their normal methods, they will be. Which means we will be able to get that issue back in, so people can still buy those subsequent issues.
That’s what I’d normally do, but I’m getting tired of bending over backwards to support your books and then getting treated like this for my effort. I’m tired of trying to extend my hand to you and then having it kicked back at me. Heck, right now I feel like no longer even buying your books for myself anymore.
I’m sure that you’re right and there are lots of retailers out there who aren’t supporting you. But if they’re not supporting you, then I really doubt that they come to this website either, so this constant blaming “The Retailers” in this forum is only alienating the ones who ARE trying to help you. Please, please, try to see the difference and remember those of us who have been on your side through all of this when you say these things.
Because I really don’t believe in staying in a situation when someone doesn’t respect or appreciate me, and I gotta tell you– I’m feeling very unappreciated and disrespected right now.
-Fer Goodnough
Store co-owner, Joy’s Japanimation
You know what, I am really getting tired of taking the blame here. I ordered more copies of Captain Marvel than any other Marvel title my store has EVER carried. More copies than I ever possibly believed my store could sell– and I run an anime store, mind you, it’s not like I have a huge mainstream comic following walking through my door. Yet I pushed it like the second coming.
What thanks do I get? “The retailers aren’t supporting me.”
You hinged a great deal of your ire on a word I never used: “The.” “The retailers.” You say it over and over again throughout your post, and put it in quotes as if I said it, except I didn’t.
I didn’t use it for a very specific reason: I know perfectly well that there are many retailers who do indeed support my work. Heck, Cliff Biggers of “Dr. Nos” who runs “Comic Shop News” was the first one to do a major spread on “The Fallen Angel” specifically because he’s a huge fan of my writing and wanted to do what he could to help the new title succeed. There are many others as well of whom I have personal knowledge because they’re friends of mine or just personally like what I write and push it on the customers. Do you think that simply slipped my mind?
To say “the retailers” would imply that I’m not getting any support, anywhere. That’s about as pointless as saying “the fans.” There is no aspect of this industry, none, where everyone speaks with one mind.
But I also regularly get complaints from fans about retailers who are genuinely non-supportive and even uncooperative. Fans who repeatedly ask for copies of my books to be ordered and the retailers can’t or won’t be bothered. I’ve gotten e-mails on it, been told in person, and we’ve seen it mentioned here repeatedly.
So I’m not out to paint a hopeless, bleak picture of the retailer base. But it’s not all sunshine and roses either. So when I simply say “retailers,” take it to mean exactly what I intended: Those who can’t be bothered to have books available for those who want to purchase them. If you say that’s not you, I fully accept that. I thank you for your support and hope you will continue to do so in the future. If I’m ever out your way, I’ll swing by and sign books.
PAD
I don’t understand how omitting the word “The” somehow clears up what you were saying.
With that said, it’s obvious you only mean the retailers that don’t support you. It would just be plain insane to insist otherwise.
Now that that’s out of the way: I still think it’s silly to cry about the subject.
PAD, you have a book that will sell on your hands. Most comic writers out there wish for such a thing. Give it a few months before you start complaining. Sales might pick up. You can’t site how two other publishing companies handled two totally different books.
The company this book is with has a LOT of 80’s memorabilia as “comics.” I seriously doubt you won’t be taken seriously and have more comics printed if they continue to sell well.
But then again, I’m using that thing called common sense. 🙂
“But then again, I’m using that thing called common sense. 🙂 “
Well, that’s your problem….
And if a retailer can’t afford to order a couple extra copies….then I think there’s something DEFINITELY wrong…either with the distribution system or with the retailer. What’s being said that the retailer can’t afford to grow…which essentially says that he’s setting himself up for failure; if the margins are that narrow as to preclude growth, then something has to be changed.
I couldn’t get it either and I was in the store on like Thursday. The store down the street was sold out, too.
Anybody know a good net store that might have some?
Well, Tang. My question is, “what is a *couple* extra copies?”
A couple copies would be gone in mere minutes due to all the fans of the comic not preordering.
What it comes down to in my mind is simple: Preorder your comics and you won’t have the trouble of trying to find the comic.
Then again, as you said: “Using common sense is my problem.”
Have a nice weekend.
And as a small PS to PAD. Who are these people you have created that won’t buy subsequent issues if they can’t buy all the early issues of an ongoing series?
I’ve come on late to many books and not been able to get the previous issues. My favorite book that I jumped on late would be Y: THE LAST MAN.
I mean, if they’re still going to be available in trades (or some other form) then why wouldn’t you think someone would jump on a comic late?
If no one jumped on to comics late (without being able to catch up on all the reading) no one would be buying Batman, Detective, Amazing Spiderman, etc, etc, etc.
Getting real tiresome reading the same whining about retailers over and over.
Sure, there are some bad retailers. And there are some short-sighted retailers. But there are also some business-like retailers. Even so, there are occasional break-out surprises that simply cannot be anticipated.
Part of the reason is that there isn’t a retailer-only, retail-friendly version of Previews (which is primarily a consumer publication). Part of it is that budgets are often so strained that taking a chance on an untried product doesn’t seem prudent at some point in time. Part of it is customers who don’t let retailers know of their interest (they can’t really be blamed for this – it is not their job, and they should not need to fully understand the advance time frame of the ordering cycles, but a canny retailer will take note of a title ‘in the know’ customers take the time to express interest in, and adjust orders accordingly. Part of it is 500-plus pages issues of Previews, with about 4000 essentially new and discrete items to wade through every month (not a complaint, just a statement of what is). Other parts are a dozen other reasons, too boring and lengthy to detail here. Part of it must also be laid squarely at the feet of the poublishers, who, if they had faith in the product they were promoting, would, in some cases, take the pains to overprint enough to meet anticipated demand (same Catch-22, though – do this enough and have enough ‘misses’ and the business goes down the tubes, just as is the case with retailers). But there are cases where there should be enough support for a product that it warrants such a gamble by the publishers.
Our shop has copies of every single title cited by PAD currently in stock. As, no doubt, do others.
And, to a previous poster – yes, margins are “that tight.” And also yes, there is “something wrong” with the whole distribution system (why, for example, are all items lumped into the same sales cycle as comics – essentially a 2-week sell-through sales period to sell enough to break even to get enough to pay the bills – non-comics items (toys, etc.) have an intrinsically longer shelf life, but must be ordered in bulk for the long term or else are most often available for re-stock no longer). But that’s a post for another day.
Sad to say, though, we don’t anticipate much on sales for Fallen Angel – and currently peg it at about the same level as Birds of Prey – a marginally-selling title for us, based solely on feedback from customers and info supplied by Dc and Diamonbd. Hope, truly, it does better, but our expectations and gut feeling don’t currently bear such unsupported optimism out.
Young Justice, for example sold at above Superman levels for us, consistently. As did Impulse, and many other titles now gone. These vagaries differ from shop to shop, region to region and season to season, and are too complex to graph.
And don’t even get me started on the shortages and damages that occur, every week 0 every bloody single week – with Diamond’s shipments (you have no idea how frustrating it is, and how much time it takes (doing what is not our job, but Diamond’s), to be invoiced for the full order of a title or titles, only to have them missing, or to get another title instead, and then, the bloody next day, to call Diamond and be told that there aren’t any more available to fill the shortage – and have to spend our time trolling around to get copies to cover the original order that Diamond screwed up in the first place!, sometimes having to take a loss in the process just to make the new issue we never got available at cover price).
Will dance gleefully in the streets if, in any year, Diamond’s shipments reach a 50% correct packing and fulfillment level. Hasn’t ever come close to that yet, and we’ve been in business for 20 years (though only so with Diamond since forced to by the ill-conceived exclusivity arrangements of the early 90s).
Sellout announcements are so much bunk – it means they printed to order, or close to that, and were caught unawares or didn’t have enough faith in their own product to catch the buzz.
My comic shop guys told me that Turtles was problem. I ordered mine LAST MINUTE. He didn’t order enough. (Literally SOLD OUT with just the subscribers. Reorder should be on the way.)
Another good idea to avoid the sell out problem is NEVER, EVER, do one of DC’s $6.95 books. Because of the high price, they don’t move well. (Rare exceptions are things like Trinity, they ordered twenty five copies of which arrived by the time the store opened Wednesday. By the time I got their yesterday they were down to ten. The sold out of Working Week on Wednesday.
there have been several books that I’ve picked up in the past that seemed promising to me (the last I remember is Giffen’s Vext) but didn’t make it past the 5th issue…
Vext got a full six issues. Granted, issue six sold out quickly, but it does exist. Go to a show…. you’ll find it in the 25 cent box next to all but the first and last issues of Young Heroes in Love.
Speaking of shows, I hope to find Spyboy #2 tomorrow. If someone beats me to it… I have a plan that involves a spaceship, whoever buys the comic and a Dolph Ludgreen double feature of Punisher and He-Man. And no friendy robots. Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!
PAD–
I appreciate the response, the thanks and the clarification.
I will confess, I honestly didn’t see the difference between “the retailers” and “retailers.” I do see now what you’re saying, and will try to remember that when you refer to retailers in the future.
I appreciate that by saying “retailers” you just mean “Those who can’t be bothered to have books available for those who want to purchase them.” I work very hard not to be lumped in with those kinds of retailers, as I’ve had to deal with that kind of treatment as well, before I opened my own store. I’ve never forgotten how frustrating that can be and have always worked hard to never treat my customers that way.
But I can’t escape the fact that I am a retailer, so it gets tough hearing the group I’m in blamed a lot. Any time you’re a part of a group that is disliked by a lot of people who are very vocal about it, you can blow it off for a while, but eventually you hit a point where you just want to reach out and yell “We’re not all the same, we don’t all act like that.”
Hmm. Now that I break down how I’m feeling about it, I guess I’m just feeling stereotyped. Well, looking at my industry (the other good retailers who have posted here being the exception of course), I certainly can’t say that it’s not without reason. (And I don’t mean that as any kind of accusation. Just an observation.)
I certainly don’t expect you to start adding qualifiers (“other retailers,” “majority of retailers,” “irresponsible retailers,” etc.). But I’ll be honest: more of a qualifier except omitting “the” would have helped me realize you meant Retailers Who Won’t Try. I’ll chalk it up to a different point of view and let it go.
To be honest, the other times you’ve talked about not getting retailer support have usually rolled off my back, because I know I’ve done everything in my power to support your books, so my conscious was clear. Had I slept on it (like I originally planned) I probably wouldn’t have even posted it at all.
My apologies for the rant and thanks for the taking the time to address my feelings on this.
-Fer Goodnough
co-owner, Joy’s Japanimation
Has anyone noticed that Diamond has listed all the issues of TMNT after #1 as “2 (of 6)” etc.? Was this originally intended to be a miniseries, or was that a recent change? If it is a miniseries, is cancellation really a concern? I hope they at least plan on doing subsequent miniseries (written by PAD, of course) that will give everyone who missed out on this #1 a new chance to jump on board. And, of course, retailers will have a better idea of how well the title will sell.
“My apologies for the rant and thanks for the taking the time to address my feelings on this.”
Don’t apologize, man, I agree with you 100%, and I’m not even a retailer.
First, Hi Jeff! 🙂
Next:
PAD: “So I’m not out to paint a hopeless, bleak picture of the retailer base. But it’s not all sunshine and roses either.”
It’s a good job you point that out, PAD, because, y’know, no one else is heaping criticism on retailers.
Retailers are a lot like the person ringing you up at the grocery store. Sure, sometimes you get a cashier that is rude or stupid or just dumb, and in those instances that cashier deserves your scorn. But, that cashier also gets yelled at by customers for price changes dictated by management, errors in ads due to marketing people, changes in content due to the manufacturer, and lack of supplies due to the supplier. They get the nearly ALL the blame from many people because they are the person that most customers come in contact with.
Retailers are the guys and gals on the frontline. We are the people that take the hits from many customers if Diamond screws up our orders, if Marvel raises its’ prices, if a writer leaves a book early. A lot of customers know and understand that some of this is beyond the retailer’s control, but just as many seem to lay the blame at our feet because we are convienent. The thing is, there are creators and publishers that love to blame retailers for every little thing they can, as well. Again, it’s easy to do. And, in some instances, some of these creators and publishers seek to throw off the blame for their own shortcomings onto the retailers.
Are there bad retailers? Oh, most certainly! And we always hear about them, don’t we? I mean, it’s not exactly a national secret, is it?
Some retailers — Love that word “some”! It works better than saying “retailers” in regard to qualifying that you aren’t speaking about all retailers, I think — *Some* retailers did not order enough issues of “Supergirl” #75, in spite of online hype. DC did not see enough of a jump and, based on past sales, along with orders for this particular issue, decided to pull the plug on the series. Sure, the last few issues sold out, but DC had already made its’ decision.
Now, “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” is a different scenario. It’s a new series by a popular writer with very popular characters. Let’s face it, the Matrix/Supergirl was not as popular as the Turtles. Hëll, Kara/Supergirl’s return is what helped the last issues sell, proving that Kara is still held in higher esteem. This is not a reflection on your writing skills, either, PAD. If not for you, I seriously doubt that the Matrix/Supergirl series would’ve last as long as it did. But, as you know, characters’ popularity is crucial in selling a series.
Anyway, retailers DID do their job, so to speak, and ordered so much that the print run was sold out!
It seems to be dámņëd if we do, dámņëd if we don’t. You don’t like writers being lumped all together, I know. So you’ll understand that we retailers, “some” of us, do not like being lumped together.
Yeah, it’s not all sunshine and roses, PAD. Still, it’d be nice if you could address the fact that every once in awhile, it’s sunny.
Matt Hawes
Comics Unlimited
654-B E. Diamond Ave.
Evansville, IN. 47711
BTW, Fer, qualifiers can be a good thing. It helps to avoid confusion such as that which led you to post what you did in defense of retailers.
PAD would probably not be too keen if I were to say “Comics writers are hacks.” Saying “Retailers don’t order my comics” implies all reatilers. Adding a “the” is no different, as it still refers to a group as a whole. “Some” would be more accurate and fair.
Matt Hawes
Comics Unlimited
654-B E. Diamond Ave.
Evansville, IN. 47711
Isn’t the print run determined by retailer’s orders? If retailers had ordered more from Previews, the print run would have been larger. Peter is saying that the book wouldn’t have sold out if retailers had correctly gauged the demand, initially ordering enough for their stores so that there wouldn’t be a situation where they had to place reorders, everyone who wanted the book would be able to buy a copy.
Not sure why I have to explain this to retailers – isn’t his point obvious?
Hey…I picked it up and enjoyed it, but I liked Laird’s version better. Thank you for not having them eat pizza and say “Cowabunga Dude!”….Minor question though….Wizard quoted you as saying that the turtle wouldn’t even appear until the fourth issue….so what gives…we have already seen them…
Indeed, this is unfortunate. I completely forgot about the fact that PAD wrote this, and when I remembered to ask at my store, they told me that not only were they sold out, but that although they’d ordered 20 copies, they’d only received 7.
Eschel, hoping for a reprint or a quickie mini-collection much like Marvel has done in recent years
“Isn’t the print run determined by retailer’s orders?”
Posted by Mitch @ 06/21/2003 03:33 PM ET
I’m not a retailer, Mitch. And orders (from the way I understand it) are based on what us fans ask for. We fill out a PREVIEWS and hand it in.
Or you can pester the hëll out of your retailer so they know you want a certain book. Or like a certain Author or Artist.
Like a worksheet at school, think of it as a curvature system. Based on how well the students vs the other students (comics) do is what they order.
How can (some, the, whatever words you’d like to put here) retailers be at fault when Jimmy and Joan don’t get their comics?
Jimmy and Joan are at fault for not filling out the PREVIEWS.
Fill out the PREVIEWS and you have a reason to complain if you don’t get your comic. If you don’t fill it out, this is what you get.
sdh
PS: It’s like asking someone to pick you up a candy bar and then bìŧçhìņg when they get back that you didn’t get two… (some, all, the, whatever you wish to put here) Retailers aren’t mind readers… and neither are mind readers! 🙂
PPS: I don’t generally use a PREVIEWS. But then again, I don’t complain if I can’t get a comic.
And a small side note. I’ve always had GREAT Retailers.
If I don’t like a retailer (whether I don’t like how I’m treated or if I can’t get a book I want) I go someplace else.
Right now, I’m lucky cause I’m in Manhattan and I know I can always pick up and go someplace else. The best comic retailer to me here is Midtown Comics. They are on the web and they have extra copies.
Also Hanley’s Universe is pretty cool too.
But when I lived in Florida there was only a handfull of retailers and they were miles apart and hard to get to. The best one down in those parts is SUPERHEROES UNLIMITED. The guy, Glenn, knew what it was like to be in the biz. He knew his books and his customers.
I’m sure the world would be a better place for customers if they were all like that.
But then again, comics would be in a better situation if we cut all the crap and bad writers and artists! 😉
Mitch, if you are looking for obvious answers, try this one on for size: Most retailers that are also good businessmen order based on consumer interest and demand, as well as past sales records.
Now, I personally thought PAD’s “Supergirl” series was nifty, and it had its’ fans, but it did not sell through the roof as a rule. The Earth Angel storyline was very interesting, but honestly it turned off many readers. Hey, I’m just the messanger, here. You can debate the merits of the story, but I am just reporting the facts.
Now, when “Supergirl” #75 is announced, it hypes the return of the Kara/Supergirl. I, and other foward thinking retailers did boost their orders. But, honestly, I can’t say I blame some retailers for being conservative based on the title’s past record and the fact that Kara’s own comics never sold well in their time. That’s why DC let her die to begin with, remember?
Still, I, and it appears there were others, knew that there might be more interest from two camps of fans: 1) Those people that speculate on special events, and 2) Fans of Kara that were feeling nostalgic. Accordingly, I upped my orders. But, there weren’t screaming legions of fans crying out for “Supergirl” #75 *before* it shipped. Many came afterward, some because they knew it was a lower-selling title and they thought the hype might make them a minor fortune in the future reselling it. Others didn’t know about the issue’s guest appearance because not every fan reads Previews or checks with the Internet, as hard as that is to believe.
PAD is a talented writer, and I am a big fan of his work and I support him as a retailer, but some titles just don’t sell as well as one might hope.
Retailers order based on past history in regard to sales and the demand for a title. If you want to save your favorite comic book series, tell your retailer that you want the comic. A good retailer wants to make money. I want to sell customers whatever comic they will buy from me.
Sometimes it seems the writers and artists take the orders personally, like a large group of retailers are fiendishly twisting long thin mustaches and cackling about how they refuse to order the creator’s comic, regardless of the sales it will cost those retailers.
Frankly, that’s nonsense.
There might be a few idiots that order based on personal tastes and convictions, but most retailers order to sell.
To blame retailers for the lack of sales on titles is a popular scapegoat. I don’t expect it to end, either, as it is most convienent and takes away the pressure of trying to figure out what else is factoring into the lack of sales.
“Hëll, Kara/Supergirl’s return is what helped the last issues sell, proving that Kara is still held in higher esteem.”
Not really.
The only thing the sell-outs indicated was that DC didn’t sufficiently promote and/or alert retailers to the new storyline/change of artist team for the SUPERGIRL series. As if the publisher WANTED the book to fail overall, since they had Seagle’s “Ten-Cent Supergirl” already waiting in the wings.
Kara had never previously proven to be much of a sales factor, and frankly, DC had been doing little to nothing in support of the SUPERGIRL series for the last year or so. As if the publisher had already determined that the book was going to end soon (since they had increased the cover price a couple months before #75 had even hit the stands).
KET
KET, Kara may have proven never much of a sales factor in the past but she WAS with MHR (PAD and Benes helped too). I had dropped SG even before #50 and only started picking it up again when Mary Marvel appeared and then when I heard Kara was coming back I stayed with the book. Before MHR I never even liked Linda but by #80 I was bitterly angry she was replaced right away with Cir-El…and I do agree with you that DC wanted the book cancelled no matter what. I don’t think anything PAD could have done would have helped, it was probably decided before #75 hit the stands.
As for the retailers I agree with PAD. My comic retailer is a very nice lady who orders everything I ask BUT if I don’t ask she won’t carry it just in case. She had to re-order every single issue of SG:MHR because she underestimated fan response and if I hadn’t put Fallen Angel on my list months ago I doubt she would have copies of it in the store next month.