WAIDERS OF THE LOST COMIC

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

Word on Newsarama is that Mark Waid was fired off FF for refusing to take the series in the direction dictated by Marvel higher-ups: i.e., ditching the high adventure tone (which Mark’s been doing a great job with) in favor of, according to Waid, “making the FF a wacky suburban dramedy where Reed’s a nutty professor who creates amazing but impractical inventions, Sue’s the office-temp breadwinner, the cranky neighbor is their new “arch-enemy.”

Basically, it’s “Honey, I Shrunk the FF.”

It will be interesting to see if the book is being used as a rough draft for what the projected November 2004 FF movie may eventually become.

Me, I’m flashing back to when I shown the door from “Hulk” because the Marvel higher-ups knew the way to go was 22 pages of “Hulk smash.” And that version tanked, and the current book is about as far from 22 pages of “Hulk smash” as you can get…and everyone who made the decision leading to my departure is long-ago fired.

Is NO ONE at Marvel familiar with the writings of George Santayana?

PAD

95 comments on “WAIDERS OF THE LOST COMIC”

  1. While I wasn’t a fan of Waid’s FF, I think Jemas’ idea for them is one of the stupidestI’ve ever heard. I was only sticking through Doom’s story, but I might not even do that. It’s so sad.

  2. What I find so utterly amazing about this is that so many talented people are being, well, under-utilized at the moment.

    Leonard Kirk, Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, um, PAD… (sorry) And that’s just this month.

    Just what the devil is the problem with management at DC and Marvel these days?

    – DB Bennett

  4. But Bill Jemas taking over the writing chores of FF? Is that true?

    That’s what Mark claims.

    Who knows? Maybe Bill is angling to write the script for the movie and wants to prove it can work.

    PAD

  5. Correct me if I’m wrong, but hadn’t the sales increased on FF under Waid’s tenure?

    Haven’t the reviews been generally favorable and full of praise?

    Hasn’t this been the run of the FF I’ve enjoyed the most since John Byrne’s? (I can answer that one definitively–it is.)

    Sigh.

  6. The sad thing about this is that it’ll probably just go down as, “Mark Waid got fired again for bucking the system” and everytime this happens they tend to go, “oh, I guess Mark was onto something.

    I never…let me repeat that…NEVER bought a copy of Fantastic Four until Mark Waid started last year…. chances are I may never again.

  7. And while I’m at it, an off-topic comment (unless the wider range of the topic is ‘What’s Wrong With Marvel Today’):

    I understand that Marvel will reprint ‘Trouble’ with a Frank Cho cover if the original photo cover with bikini-clad pubescent models sells out.

    I’ll buy a Frank Cho-covered issue. I don’t want the other one. But the gist of Marvel’s announcement, and the underlying threat of it is, if I don’t buy the first, I won’t get the second.

    Sigh.

  8. There’s going to be a huge backlash against this. Not just for firing Waid, but replacing him with Jemas. I think this is going to be the ultimate test of “character vs. writer”.

  9. Dammit, if this is true then some higher ups at Marvel must be getting a close up view of their own colon. Until Mark Waid started writing, I hadn’t seriously read FF since I about 9 or 10. (Just for the record, next year I turn 28)

  10. Oh, dear lord.

    The House Of Ideas has become The Whørë-høûšë For Hollywood!!

    Depressing. Truly depressing.

    Hooper

  11. My wife is not a comic book fan (she didn’t know who Bill Jemas was before today) – she is a casual female reader, The type of reader Marvel claims to be courting.

    The only book she ever read regularly was Waid’s FF. She loved Waid’s take on it – she couldn’t get enough.

    Now she want to go to NY and burn down the Marvel offices unless they reinstate Waid.

    When I showed her the story online – she turned to me and said – “What kind of idiots run Marvel?”

    I’m hoping this is a publicity stunt.

  12. Sweet monkey jeebus….

    Okay, I didn’t read Marville (and just for the record, NOBODY I know bought it, only read it. A friend of mine bought three copies of Captain Marvel, just to spite Jemas and Joey Da Q.) But those who DID say it was the largest pile of (explitive deleted) horse (explitive deleted) that they ever read. They said it read like a two year old trying to explain nuclear fusion. >sigh<

    NOW Jemas is gonna write FF?? It’s yet another sign of the apocolypse, I tell ya….

    Again >sigh<. Now I’ve gotta go post a rant about this on my site.

  13. Matt Adler: There’s going to be a huge backlash against this. Not just for firing Waid, but replacing him with Jemas. I think this is going to be the ultimate test of “character vs. writer”.

    Luigi Novi: I think it would be more accurate to call it “writer vs. writer,” since that what Jemas replacing Waid will boil down to, and if the reputation Jemas earned as a writer with his stint on Marville influences sales, it may be a matter of “writer vs. someone who can’t write at all,” and book might never even get off the ground once Jemas’ first issue hits the stands.

  14. It’s like he didn’t learn anything at all from U-Decide.

    Or maybe he did and he’s applying all the wrong lessons. “The perfect formula! Goofy online fight + high-profile creator + my own badly written fanfic = TALL DOLLARS!”

  17. *COUGH*SPUTTER* WHAT???

    Jemas firing Waid and writing the book HIMSELF??? Please tell me this is an unfounded rumour.

    That’d be the crassest thing since, well, Crassus!

  18. Clearly, Marvel doesn’t know good writing when they see it.

    Eh, we’re all meant for bigger and better things, right?

  19. Add my name to the list of people who hadn’t bought FF for years and started picking it up again when Waid came on board.

    I think it’s clear that Marvel is now dominated by a mixture of ego and cronyism. It seems that rather than keep going with a direction that was giving good sales and good critical praise, Jemas wants to massage his ego to show that his idea for the FF works best.

    Well, time to delete another book from my pull list. On the bright side, there’s now room for Fallen Angel.

  20. Me, I’m flashing back to when I shown the door from “Hulk” because the Marvel higher-ups knew the way to go was 22 pages of “Hulk smash.” And that version tanked, and the current book is about as far from 22 pages of “Hulk smash” as you can get…

    Weren’t you also instructed to tone down the “industry in-jokes” and humour in Captain Marvel, by the guy who went on to write book full of (terrible, out-of-date) in-jokes?

    If we all promise to buy two copies of Fallen Angel each, will you quit Marvel altogether? 😉

  21. Figures. I was just getting into FF. And now the whole reason I was liking it will be gone.

    *sigh*

  22. Well, from what I’ve heard from dubious sources, the “wacky family comedy FF” is what’s being shopped around as the basis for the movie. If I vaguely remember a interveiw or story I read, one idea was that they didn’t even really have to explain/show how they got thier powers, just that they are this family that does amazing stuff, and behidn closed doors, they are totally goofy.

    Poor reporting and speculation, of course, but this sounds like a recipe for disaster. If Waid leaves, so do I, as I haven’t picked up FF before Waid started writing.

  24. After the series tanks when Jemas takes over, I’m sure they’ll just hire Bruce Jones to take over the writing chores and, although we’ll never see the Thing or any powers from the other FF members again, sales will soar…

  25. “If I vaguely remember a interveiw or story I read, one idea was that they didn’t even really have to explain/show how they got thier powers, just that they are this family that does amazing stuff, and behidn closed doors, they are totally goofy.”

    That sounds suspiciously like the possible plotline for “The Incredibles”, the next Pixar movie about a super-family. Are you sure you’re not mixing the two up? I can’t believe they’d actually do that to an FF movie, which should NOT be “Honey, I Shrunk the FF”.

  26. Well, I’m not one to defend Bill Jemas and the current regime at Marvel (this too shall pass), but it seems this is all a knee-jerk response to falling sales and years of non-mainstream accessible storylines. Instead of finding a nice blend of mainstream/fannish storylines, they’re going for the audience that’s going to movies and watching sitcoms. The success of this, however, is definitely a long shot. Why couldn’t this new ideas of Jemas’ have been done as Ultimate FF is beyond me. I was saddened by Waid’s termination of Cap (twice!) and here I am again.

  27. Well, as devestating a blow as this is, I can’t really say that I am that incredibly surprised at this announcement. The only real surprise to me was the fact that Jemas was allowing Waid, a writer famous for extensively using continuity in his storytelling, to have as long a run on the Fantastic Four as he did. By Waid standards, his FF run wasn’t really continuity heavy, and was actually doing a very good job of drawing new readers to the book. Eventually, I knew that Waid was going to want to tell a story that Jemas didn’t want him to tell, and that would be the end of his run. Well guys, look on the bright side. At least we are getting arguably one of the better Doom stories ever told out of the deal.

  28. I don’t want to bring all the hellfire and brimstone of Marveldom Assembled down upon me but, as a Mighty Marvel Stockholder, I must point out:

    I bought the stock about a year ago. For $4.00. Last I checked, it was hovering around $24.00. And this is during the economic crisis known as the Bush Presidency.

    All I’m saying is I keep seeing post after post here saying how pathetic Marvel is at using talent, how they are devoid of ideas, how they are “whoring” characters to the movie companies, etc, etc.

    The point is that the company is extremely successful right now. So let’s give Jemes and Co. some credit, huh?

    Its one issue to say “Mark Waid was my favorite writer, I’m bummed he’s leaving” and its entirely another to claim Marvel is going into hëll in a handbasket because its run by bungling idiots (which is completely untrue).

    People said the “Ultimate” line of books was an idiotic idea. I happen to think Ultimates and USM are two of the best books published today. People moaned about Marve Knight-ing of certain characters. It worked out good for Punisher. I notice Wolverine now is more Jackman-like…not wearing his costume (in his own comic anyway) and so forth. You know what, I like it.

    Now I agree this new FF idea sounds kind of dumb. But I read exactly one Waid FF (the .10 one) and I thought that was dumb too.

    I guess what I’m saying is why can’t you guys, uh, be positive a bit…or at the very least, be supportive of things you like without tearing down everything else.

    Best–Chris

  29. I’ve never liked the Fantastic Four. I only picked it up ’cause I liked Mark Waid’s work on X-Men. And I’ve been loving the book. But if he leaves, I’m gonna put it right back down again.

  30. It’s like he didn’t learn anything at all from U-Decide.

    Of course not. The whole U-Decide fiasco has been wiped from NuMarvel continuity. In the minds of Jem-ášš and QBoy, it never happened!

  31. It’s funny that Quesada and Jemas disparaged the earlier regime by saying those guys had assistant editors writing the books, and here we have the president booting Waid and writing the book himself!

    It also reminds me of the ’70s, when Gerry Conway became EIC and fired the current creative team of Fantastic Four to write the book himself, to solidly unspectacular results.

    Man, does Waid run into editorial problems everywhere, or what? The last series he left voluntarily was The Flash. Then he leaves Cap due to editorial meddling, leaves Empire because Gorilla Comics went under, then leaves Ruse because of CrossGen, and now this. Please, someone get Waid a series and let him write!

    Hey, perhaps the FF will hit a new low – maybe we’ll get an issue worse than Fantastic Four Unlimited #1. Maybe then they’ll get my personal “dream team” for FF: Karl Kesel and Tom Grummett.

  32. Will they at least finish printing Waid’s current Doom storyline?

    Provided the news report is accurate, can Waid sue Marvel?

    Can we sue Marvel to put Waid back on the FF, or at least keep Jemas off it?

    Stopping my FF subscription with Waid’s last issue.

  33. I guess what I’m saying is why can’t you guys, uh, be positive a bit…or at the very least, be supportive of things you like without tearing down everything else.

    I understand what your point, Chris, but when it comes to the possibility of Bill Jemas writing Fantastic Four, there is nothing to be positive about. Read Marville and you’ll see I’m not exaggerating.

    (As for stocks and judging success by money, well, comics are a creative field. Alot of bad movies make tons of money, I don’t consider them a success either.)

  34. The last Marvel book I read regularly was Spider-Man and I stopped near the first year of the Clone saga. I didn’t like the Pursuit storyline or much after it. I’m tracking down the last year or so of New Warriors which from what I have is okay. The last truly great series I’ve read from them was Peter’s X-Factor. At the time PAD Hulk was just to expensive to get into. (I had about 20 books in my list and only $45 bucks coming in a month at the time.) I’m going a show this weekend. Will get as much as possible because what little Hulk I have from the period, I like.

  36. I’ll never defend Jemas, but I’ll add two caveats to the complaints. Firstly, Mark Waid has made himself a reputation for being difficult to work with (who here remembers the, uh, difficulties with Crossgen that caused him to head to Marvel?). Secondly, Jemas may be planning to go back on his word, and sees this as an opportunity to garner more publicity. If my suspicion turns out to be true… well, if Waid’s unwittingly being used as a pawn, my sympathies to him. If he’s in on it, I have utter contempt for the man.

  37. At the risk of sounding unpopular, the few issues I’ve read of Waid’s FF run haven’t been very good. I will certainly not pick up the book if Bill Jemas starts writing it, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Mark Waid removed. I don’t think he’s a great writer and I usually find his stories annoying, trite, and untrue to the characters.

  38. As for me, I didn’t be bothered to read FF until Waid began his run on it. I really enjoyed his blend of warm humor and smart action. The news of his sudden departure is very sad indeed. I guess Bill Jemas still doesn’t know how to keep getting my money.

    KET

  39. You know this is your fault, having set Jemas onto writing with that whole “U-Decide” thing…

  41. Point of order: much of the success of Marvel’s current stock price relies on their successfully breaking into Hollywood. The success/failure of their comics line has actually very little to do with their current stock price (ironic, considering that they’re a comic book company).

    Forgive my ignorance, but I am unfamiliar with George Santayana. What did he write that’s relevant here?

  42. “The point is that the company is extremely successful right now. So let’s give Jemes and Co. some credit, huh?”

    The point is that FRIENDS is one of the most popular things ever to come out of Hokywood, and it’s a piece of crap. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Just because Marvel is doing well financially doesn’t mean they aren’t going downhill creatively.

  43. This is really sad news. I managed to get through Steve Englehart’s last run, but Tom DeFalco chased me off until Mark Waid started.

    I’ve said I’d hold on if the next writer was any good… but Bill Jemas has proven time and again he isn’t. So I’ll be dropping the book again.

    “World’s greatest comic”? Ha!

  44. Good grief, Peter, it’s not like any OTHER business seems familiar with (or gives credence to) Santayana’s famous quote (“When experience is not retained… infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”). Heck, most politicians ignore it as well. Why you should expect Marvel to be the exception mystifies me. 🙂

    – Elayne

  45. Point of order: much of the success of Marvel’s current stock price relies on their successfully breaking into Hollywood. The success/failure of their comics line has actually very little to do with their current stock price (ironic, considering that they’re a comic book company).

    This is so true. The comics industry is becoming more and more a licensing industry and not a comics publishing industry. When merchanidising and TV and film adaptations rake in more money than that comics, it’s easy to see how the powers that be can stop caring whether or not a quality product is being produced.

  46. Hmm… A wacky suburban superhero family?

    Sounds like Jemas went to see Finding Nemo, saw the upcoming trailer for The Incredibles and thought, “Yes! That’s what the Fantastic Four should be!”

  47. I think it would be more accurate to call it “writer vs. writer,” since that what Jemas replacing Waid will boil down to, and if the reputation Jemas earned as a writer with his stint on Marville influences sales, it may be a matter of “writer vs. someone who can’t write at all,” and book might never even get off the ground once Jemas’ first issue hits the stands.

    The reason I call it “character vs. writer” is because I can’t imagine that any substantial numbers of people would buy FF specifically for Jemas’ writing. So if sales DO hold relatively steady (ie; FF stays in the top 40) that would be the ultimate confirmation of the “readers follow the character, not the writer” dictum. Which would be really sad.

  48. I think Jemas is the exact opposite of PAD. Especially when it comes to great storytelling, imagination and engaging storylines. I regrettably have the entire marville series, and I am going to hold onto it just as a reminder of why I read DC comics.

    (spider-girl and captain marvel are my only exceptions right now)

  49. I think it would be more accurate to call it “writer vs. writer,”…

    The reason I call it “character vs. writer”…

    Or, how about, fans vs. Marvel?

  50. I just tried to go to newsramma to read the story, and the site is down.

    I sense a Marvel conspiracy…..

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