Looking good. Looking *very* good. A strong episode that brings long-standing plot threads to full boil.
Spoilers from here on.
Two guys come to blows with each other when it turns out they’re both really pìššëd øff with their moms. Paging Dr. Freud.
Well, Spike survived the episode, and I wasn’t 100% sure he would. So William had issues with his mother that he’s been suppressing for well over a century. The subtext of penetrative sexuality in vampirism (remember when Angel drank Buffy’s blood in “Graduation Day, Part II”?) goes completely Oedipal. Between this and Buffy’s encounter with the shrink-turned-vamp in “Talking to Dead People,” it’s starting to seem as if everyone in the cast needs serious couch time.
Dawn once again gets to scream, and little else…and did I blink and miss him, or was Xander even *in* the episode? Willow ties in to Angel one week late. What, they couldn’t bump one lousy rerun so it would actually flow from Tuesday night into Wednesday?
And dammit, I *still* keep thinking something is up with Giles. I mean, yeah, the argument can be made for Spike’s unpredictability, but Buffy’s also right: He’s one of the strongest warriors they’ve got. And if Giles is acting on the other side of the fence, it’d be in his interest to get rid of Spike.
The flashbacks made a nice companion piece to last week’s “Angel,” when you think about it, although I was a bit disappointed that Dru was only in the one scene. But it was worth it: The look on her face at the prospect of trekking around the world with Spike and Spike’s mum was utterly priceless. His hair looked less curly and less blonde then last time.
Continuity questions, though: First, wouldn’t Spike have had to be invited to enter his old house since he was now a vampire? Granted, he used to live there, but Angel had to be invited into *his* previous residence after he’d died. Second, how come his mother didn’t know he’d died? We know he’d had a funeral and was buried, because he stated in season six that he’d had to claw his way out of his grave upon becoming a vamp.
PAD
• 
Very very good episode. Buffy saying that she would sacrifice Dawn if necessary was creepy, and nicely referenced by Buffy sitting at her sister’s bedside.
Also very nice action scenes between Spike and Robin Wood.I have a friend who has been watching Buffy for the first time this season, and I have to keep telling him, “It’s usually much better than this.” He liked tonight’s episode. Finally!
Doesn’t Whedon’s mythology say that vampires have to be staked by wood? Spike killed vamps with a metal shovel and (I believe) a metal poker. Wasn’t there an episode where Buffy staked Spike with a non-wooden stake, and it just hurt a lot?
As to the “Spike clawing his way out of a grave” thing —
It’s entirely possible Dru buried him herself.
After all, that’s what she did when she re-vampirized Darla a couple of years back. And Angel commented at the time that Dru wanted “the ritual” so we know she did it often enough for him to notice.
– DB Bennett
First, as a Mac user, it was cool once again to see that the Buffyverse is also the Appleverse (it seems to be the only computer anyone owns in Sunnyvale…).
This – THIS – was what a Buffy episode should be. Great pacing, snappy dialoge, lots and lots of plot! The season so far has had too many “Bendis Daredevil” episodes – by that I mean all middle of the middle with little to know plot advancement. If the rest of the episodes remaining are this good or better (dare I hope) the final season could still redeem itself and be one of the best. OK, I know I’m dreaming.
And I agree: something is still wrong with Giles. Don’t know what, but we still don’t know everything.
Another thought… Just because a vampire gets his sould back doesn’t mean he’ll be a NICE guy (like Angel). Spike is still dangerous and outright cruel. He didn’t HAVE to tell Robin his mother didn’t love him, but he did it as punishment. Not nice at all.
Metal blade, wooden handle.
And tonight UPN began counting down to the series finale…sigh. Next week is a rerun, so I guess we’ve got seven left…
Randall- vampires can die by having their heads chopped off.
PAD- Agreed about Giles. The First Evil can touch, Giles said otherwise. The First is about mind fûçkš, twisting what is for It’s advantage. As for the invitation, all it would take is a servant issuing the invitation. Or, after William’s father’s death, the house could have been left to him, so he was the owner.
But am I the only one that thinks a series based on Wood would be intresting?
“And tonight UPN began counting down to the series finale…sigh. Next week is a rerun, so I guess we’ve got seven left… “
Nope, five left. Tonight was ep number 17 out of the standard 22, which means at least two more reruns. I’m guessing either a new one every other week in April, or two reruns, then three one-hour eps, and a two-hour finale. More reruns suck, but it should let the season-ending crossover flow better than this backward one, since Angel will run all new eps until the season is over.
Definitely takes wood (the tree kind, not the principal kind…and doesn’t that name now sound like it’s straight out of teenage fanfic?). Remember when Riley staked Spike with a plastic woodgrain stake in order to both be painful and to make Spike think it was the real thing and he’d be toast in a second or two.
More evidence, btw, that Spike is a very unusual vampire. Not only did he manage a hundred plus loving relationship with Dru, cared that Buffy thought of him as a man and cared at some level for Joyce and Dawn, but he still cared a lot for his mother, as shown both by his siring (given the motivation) and his staking of her. If anything, he seems to be becoming more vicious post-soul.
Oh, one other bit of namedropping. William’s family must be quite well established in society if he wants to call royal physician Dr. Gull to see Mum. Of course, some theories are that Gull was also known as Jack the Ripper…
Am I the only one who thinks that the Buffy spin-off should be the adventures of Drucilla out and about in this modern world?
Very nice episode! Loved the dialogue and the pacing, especially on the flashback scenes.
It was refreshing to finally see that just because you become a vampire it doesn’t mean that you have to go out and butcher your parents and everyone else you ever liked; that feelings can survive the transformation.
Plus, now we know that it wasn’t becoming a vampire that turned William into Spike, but rather his vampiric mother’s disdain for him.
And poor Dru, it’s obvious that she was thinking that a murderous rampage just wouldn’t be the same with her “mother-in-law” in tow. I wonder if, at that moment, she questioned her choice of making William a vampire.
Patrick, I’d say that getting his/her soul back simply makes a vampire human again (true a human with superpowers and weird weaknesses, but still…). Whether they’re nice or not is entirely up to them (Free Will and all). After all, let’s not forget Angel’s own brushes with his dark side during seasons 2 and 3 of his show.
I agree that there’s something going on with Giles. Besides his decision regarding Spike, there’s also the fact that he let Wood try and kill him by himself. Giles knows how good a fighter Spike is, he must have foreseen that Wood might fail. Maybe Giles just figured that whatever the outcome it would have been good for him, as if Spike killed Wood, Buffy would be likely to shun him afterwards.
Plus, if Giles was really stalling, why bring Spike up in the conversation? Was he hoping that Buffy would figure everything out too late to stop it, but with just enough time that she’d witness it?
Denise, when did the First Evil touch something? I must have missed it.
Raphy
The First touched Angel and I belive several objects in Amends. I’d have to go back and check the episode. I defently remember The First (as Jenny) touching Angel’s hair and moving him so his head was on her lap (or was it shoulder, what I get for going back and watching Season 2 and Angel S1 w/ my son over Spring Break).
Yes..my son…10 years old and a Buffy lover 🙂
A spinoff about Oz would work, but they’d have to use a different name. –
I’d go with Ripper, since they started thinking about it a while ago.
Here’s the schedule for the last eps…
7-18 – 15 Apr 03 – Dirty Girls
7-19 – 22 Apr 03 – Empty Places
7-20 – 29 Apr 03 – Touched
7-21 – 13 May 03 – End Of Days [1]
7-22 – 20 May 03 – Chosen [2]
I think that the deal with Giles is that he can’t get over that Spike was a Big Bad. Buffy and some of the others are accepting of him now, but Giles and Zander both still give him a hard time due to the things Spike did in the past. Giles has never given Spike any slack, even when he had the chip and had helped the group several times. Look back at “Once More with Feeling” and his “When I want your opinion Spike…well, I’ll never want it” comment. Shades of the First telling Andrew “Funny how Buffy is only making you seek redemption.” (Or somethink like that)
Remember that Giles is a Watcher first, and his training is to be teacher to the slayer and have the info on their prey, the vapmires. He probbably can’t get past seeing Spike as “William the Bloody, blonde bad ášš vampire who has the distinction of killing TWO Slayers.” Not to mention the things he’s seen Spike do with his own eyes against Buffy and the Scoobies. His opprotunisim, selfishness and betrayals during the Adam problem.
Buffy can see the potental in Spike, especially now that he is ensouled (if that’s a word), but Giles is more pragmatic. (Mild spoiler in inviso-text.) Remember who how he delt with Glory. “She’s a hero, not like us.” He sees the danger in Spike, with or without the trigger and wants to remove the threat.
Anyway, that went on way to long. 🙂 But to finsih off, great episode (I love characters with dark edges searching for redemption) which reminded me why I love this show.
StS
I loved 7.17., but perhaps mostly because I missed Buffy so much. You’re addressing two interesting points: Wouldn’t they have to invite Spike into his house, and why didn’t his mother attend the funeral of her boy? Perhaps I have an answer that explains it all: blame the writers. 😉
But there’s another aspect often overlooked: This ep finally explained why Spike is only Spike and why Angel is Angel and Angelus.
Y’know, I guess I’m the only one who was right there with Giles and Wood last night. Spike is dangerous and unpredictable. And deep down he’s not a good “person.” (BTW…I like Spike.) Buffy has a blind spot regarding Spike and he should have been staked a long time ago…certainly after he tried to rape Buffy.
I found the idea that Buffy is willing to sacrifice Dawn, would allow Spike to kill Wood (a human) and her disrespect for Giles very disturbing. I know it’s supposed to come off as heroic and “adult” but it smacks of a 20 year-old who thinks “they’ve been around” and know better than anyone/everyone else. i think even a 30 year-old Slayer would benefit from a Watcher to help guide them. I’m not loving the arrogant Buffy. Giles was right…leadership is about more than “rousing” speeches. Buffy isn’t coming off as much of a leader. Maybe this will be addressed a bit when Faith shows up.
A couple of interesting thoughts:
I’m fairly sure the lack of continuity is on the WB’s side; even with the okay for crossovers, it’s not in their best interests to work them smoothly into the flow. It’s possible they just don’t care. (Though on the other hand, why they wouldn’t take advantage of what’s essentially a free commercial on a rival network — “Check out Angel tomorrow to see what Willow’s up to!” — is beyond me.)
Re: Angel(us): Buffy doesn’t know! ANYTHING! Is SHE ever in for a surprise next week.
Anyone else notice that Mamma Spike’s physician is Dr. Gull? Shades of “From Hëll.”
Overall I really liked this one; it’s a nice step ahead from the slow-paced ones of the last few weeks. Interesting bit, though — remember that from a pragmatic point of view, Giles is absolutely right about Spike. His warnings may yet prove to be prophetic.
Paul F. P. Pogue
I may be mistaken, but when Spike first showed up in Sunnydale, he was talking to Angel (pretending to be Angelus) and said something like “You were my sire, man,” in a conversation they had. Which is just a little contiuity error in light of recent references to Dru being his sire. Does anyone else remember this? Or am I misremembering?
One more thought: Maybe Spike WAS Jack the Ripper! He was in London at the time, and talked about making Europe run red with blood. Just an idea I had after reading the posts above.
RE: spike clawing out of his grave
After seeing that season 6 ep again recently, I think he said he had clawed his way out of a grave before but never specified that it was directly after he became a vamp or that he had a funeral.
Spike is still dangerous and outright cruel. He didn’t HAVE to tell Robin his mother didn’t love him, but he did it as punishment. Not nice at all.
Actually I think Spike had to tell Wood exactly that. Spike made a realization that Wood maybe felt so much anger because he felt abandon as a child, that it left him feeling lonely and he turned that into rage that he focused soley on Spike. To a degree it’s understandable seeing has Spike did in fact kill his mother, but as Spike pointed out maybe Wood was feeling these ways before his mother died. As the slayer the mission was more important than her son and even though he was young he still understood that and it hurt. Spike knows this because essentially he was there, he knew that slayer and her son and he knew how everything went down. Spike also makes this realization about Wood because he gained clarity on his own mother troubles. To put Wood in his place, to calm him down and to maybe even win the fight Spike had to tell Wood those things. And if you hadn’t noticed, humans can be just as cruel as any demon.
Once again Giles keeps his coat on. Creepy.
Regarding Buffy admitting she’d sacrifce Dawn etc.
It’s the whole, for the greater good, thing so I think it’s exactly how she should be thinking.
but it smacks of a 20 year-old who thinks “they’ve been around” and know better than anyone/everyone else.
In fact, she’s died twice, killed hundreds, saved the world numerous times, among countless other things like being invisible and being in other demensions …
I think she’s qualified as “been around.” And I would certainly say that she does in fact know best. Better than a barely there watcher, a construction worker, a teenager, a wacky witch, a group of potentials and a angry principle.
Very strong episode.
Spike mocks the whole Anne Rice notion of vampires in “School Hard” and now we see that he is more like Lestat than we’d like (the whole turning his mother thing).
It’s sort of disappointing — vampires were solely evil monsters. But, once Spike and Dru arrived, they began injecting personality into them. I’m not sure this is a great thing.
Anyway, I am pleased that Spike kept his coat.
As for PAD’s suspicions about Giles, well, I think it’s just bad writing. Buffy is finally standing on her feet and making her own decisions, which is what Giles wanted last year when he went to London.
Also, his whole theory regarding Spike makes no sense — If Spike goes bad, Buffy can easily kill him. If Spike is dead, then he’s no good to anyone and Anya certainly isn’t the muscle of the group.
(Oh, Spike probably was able to enter his old home because his mother didn’t know that he was dead and thus didn’t stop thinking of the house as “his.” Angel’s family, though, buried him.)
A good episode, I thought. The one thing that sticks with me is that Giles just isn’t acting like… well, Giles.
Something is up with him. Just not sure what yet.
Bobby
This was a good one. I’m always up for seeing more of Spike, and this one served up some great moments. Mama’s boy William, Dru obviously thinking “Am I gonna have to stake this yutz?” Wood becoming hte first man to ever fight a vampire with RealPlayer, and pretty much the whole third act. People may complain about the Rice-ification of a character who used to be such a badass, but it’s always been a pet theory of mine that people who try that hard to be “cool” have a little milksop underneath.
I, too, caught the Gull reference. I don’t know if it was a direct Jack the Ripper thing, though, or just the referencing of a prominent physician of the time. Guess I’ll have to ask Marsters at Dragon*Con.
But dámņ, isn’t it kinda sad that the best Buffy ep so far this season had Buffy on screen for only about 10 minutes?
Okay, I loved this ep. But I can’t believe people aren’t commenting on the rip off from Angel. Spike’s line to Wood at the end. Something along the lines of …I wanted you to know that before I kill you.
Hi. Wesley in a hospital bed anyone????
“This isn’t Angelus talking, it’s me Angel. And I wanted you to know that before I KILL YOU!!!”
I was loving the episode until that line. It was like, well, we can’t think of anything that sounds better than that line that Angel used on Wesley so let’s use it again.
Blech.
Gotta love Dru though. Good stuff overall.
Spike used the shovel blade do decapitate one vampire, he used the shovel handle to stab the heart of Robin’s sparring buddy.
I, too, caught the Gull reference. I don’t know if it was a direct Jack the Ripper thing, though, or just the referencing of a prominent physician of the time. Guess I’ll have to ask Marsters at Dragon*Con.
Not to mention the things he’s seen Spike do with his own eyes against Buffy and the Scoobies. His opprotunisim, selfishness and betrayals during the Adam problem.
Well, if Giles can forgive Angel for killing his girlfriend, you’d think he’d accept that Spike can be redeemed to.
It’s clear that Spike-with-a-soul isn’t Angel. Spike isn’t trying to find redemption as much as he still hopes to impress Buffy.
I think Spike’s confrontation with his mother was a great contrast to Angelus’ with his father.
It is interesting that so many characters in Buffyverse are motivated by parental abandonment. Angel and Wes are still haunted by their overbearing father, Spike and Robin by feeling abandoned by their mothers. Even Buffy still latches to Giles as her father-figure.
I may be mistaken, but when Spike first showed up in Sunnydale, he was talking to Angel (pretending to be Angelus) and said something like “You were my sire, man,”
Yeah, Spike said that way back in season two. Whedon did a little revision a while back when Spike told Buffy how he became a vampire (the first episode where we saw him as William the Bloody Awful Poet) where it was shown that Dru sired him. Dru, Angelus, and Darla were walking through London and Dru said she wanted someone for herself and they bumped right into William. Darla then made a joke about Dru should just grab “the first idiot that she see.”
One more thought: Maybe Spike WAS Jack the Ripper! He was in London at the time, and talked about making Europe run red with blood. Just an idea I had after reading the posts above.
That would be a helluva twist and his rather twisted relationship with his mother might motivate him to attack women primarily. The taunting letters that the Ripper allegedly sent to Scottland Yard might be satisfying his Oedipal need for attention. Of course, maybe he sired Gull instead!
Peter they killed continuity a long time ago on this show. But it you could fanwank Spike lying to try and feign a kinship with Buffy.
But you’re right the continuity is screwed up.
Honestly though I think Giles is on the level and Buffy is not thinking clearly when it comes to spike.
It’s the same scenario we had with Angel. Logic and reason dictated one action Buffy reacted the opposite way.
Can spike be trusted? (only because Marti Noxon loves spike)
I don’t buy spike’s explanation he knows more than anyone that despite everything the demon is a reflection of the personailty of the human inside. (despite what they say on Angel and angelus)
For him to say his mother wasn’t really his mother is bull.
The best proof? look at spike with a sopul is he really acting any different than spike without a soul? No.
Spike’s a risk. For her to turn her back on giles for spike is seriously screwed up.
I can’t believe I’m looking forward to Angel showing up in the hope that she will stop looking at spike as if he is the be all and end all.
“Well, if Giles can forgive Angel for killing his girlfriend, you’d think he’d accept that Spike can be redeemed to.”
To be fair, Giles only just barely forgave Angel for that. And he had the advantage of knowing Angel and fighting by his side as an ally and friend long before Angelus killed Jenny — not to mention also being aware that Angel suffered 100 years in hëll for what he’d done.
Also, the difference between Angel and Angelus is very distinct and pronounced; they’re clearly two different people. As referenced numerous times here already, there’s not anywhere near as clear a line between William and Spike. Spike’s always been the most “human” of vampires; he still likes buffalo wings, smoking cigarettes and wild sex. At times, even before he got his chip, it seemed that he sometimes seemed to “forget” he wasn’t supposed to be alive anymore.
There’s probably a lot more to be said on that subject, but I’m not in the mood to go into it now. Suffice to say I sometimes wonder if there’s more to what William/Spike really is than we’ve ever known.
Paul F. P. Pogue
I believe I’ve read in an interview with Whedon his take on the whole “sire” thing. Seems that because Angelus sired Dru, and Dru sired Spike, that Spike would still refer to Angelus as sire, since there is no word that means “grand-sire”. In other words, it is likely that Spike would also refer to Darla or The Master as his sire, as there is a direct lineage.
Rich
Xander was in this ep briefly; he was hooking up the chains.
I have to say I’m glad I’m not in the position of making the decisions Giles and Buffy are. Because really, they’re both right; Spike could still prove to be dangerous, but he is part of the group and deserves more than a summary staking. (And none of them are really making objective judgments, no matter how much they pretend otherwise…)
The flashbacks in this episode did an excellent job of rounding out Spike’s backstory and character. It draws a line between the pathetic figure we saw previously and the infamous railroad spike-using murderer. Spike’s always had a softer side, as seen in his relationship with Dru, his affection for Dawn, his deal with Buffy at the end of S2, and (most revealing in light of this episode) his fondness for Joyce. I’ve always suspected that a vampire’s boundaries are determined to some degree by the person they were in life, and here we’ve seen William’s loving side (as opposed to his lovestruck side).
Did anyone else have “Early One Morning” stuck in their head for the rest of the evening? It’s a good song and all, but tenacious as all get out…
I think Spike is (with or without a soul) a better person than Angel. As a soulless vampire, he only did what came naturally. It’s like he said, the killing was part of “the game.”
Angelus went out of his way to torture people and ruin lives.
So, with his soul back, Angel feels more of a need to redeem himself. Spike can hold onto the idea that even without his soul he still had decent qualities.
And as for Spike entering his old house. It stands to reason that if they were that well off, they probably had a live-in made who would’ve greeted any late night visitors.
“they probably had a live-in made who would’ve greeted any late night visitors.”
And served as a convenient tasty appetizer!
“More reruns suck, but it should let the season-ending crossover flow better than this backward one, since Angel will run all new eps until the season is over.”
The season, and possibly the series, since the WB renewed six shows yesterday with Angel not among them. With all the care that Mutant Enemy are taking to bring Buffy to a natural ending, it’s a shame they may not have the same chance with Angel.
Come to think of it, there must have been someone in the house to let them in, because Dru commented on the smell of entrails in the house (or words to that effect). Unless the housekeeper was singularly dilatory in her duties, that implies they must have killed the servants.
Regarding “Early One Morning”, the song doesn’t stick in my head quite the way it did after I first heard it. My first exposure to the song was an episode of “Bewitched” when Sam has been sent back to the time of Henry VIII by a witch with some vendetta against Sam (it’s been a while so it’s hard to recall the exact nature–plus that plot had been used before except she was sent back to antebellum New Orleans). During the episode, Sam hooks up with a group of minstrels and sings the song (if it really was Liz Montgomery singing, she did have a very nice voice) which, of course, makes her Henry’s next intended. She wants to turn down the request, but doing so would endanger the lives of her fellow musicians.
I had that song stuck in my head for nearly a solid week afterwards. Since its use with Spike, it only sticks around a little while.
Oddly enough, despite the little snippets that had been used previously this season, I never really could place the song until last night when I finally realized that I’d first heard the song on “Bewitched”.
I, too, thought it was the best episode in some time. The only minor problem I had was the bit right before the break about Spike killing Wood. It just seemed like something artificially inserted to create a “cliff-hanger” since there was no real reason for Spike to suddenly turn his back on the whole “no killing humans” policy (as someone already pointed out, his main motivation for reforming still seems to be getting on Buffy’s good side and killing Wood surely wouldn’t have helped) nor did we see any real reason why he decided not to kill Wood. (In fact the whole thing reminded me of Kathy Bates’ classic freak-out scene in “Misery” where she explodes over the movie serial cop-out.)
My major problem with it remains, and I feel almost like I’m harping on this, with how unlikable the characters are becoming. I still can’t believe that this is the season ME claimed would be “lighter” than last season’s. Buffy doesn’t seem to have any decent relationships in her life since all she does is tell her friends they’re stupid, useless and likely to die. Willow is using magic like nobody’s business and after last season’s heavy-handed analogy of magic to drug or alcohol addiction, I can’t believe that’s not setting off alarm bells. There was a brief flirtation with the idea that Xander and Anya could get back together as they are clearly meant to and provide at least one positive relationship among this entire cast of characters but the last new episode took a dump on *that*. They started off the season with the hint that we would see a “Next Generation” develop around Dawn and her classmates but now Dawn has been about as useful as Chris O’Donnell in “Batman & Robin” (The co-title character in that film, for the record, gets beaten up by Batman, Mr. Freeze, Bane, Poison Ivy *and* Batgirl… who isn’t even Batgirl yet.) Even Spike, who I *like* as the “bad boy” seemed kinda more unlikable. I mean, y’gotta give Inigo Monwoodya a little slack for wanting revenge on his mother’s killer. And the argument that his mother didn’t love him because she died trying to protect the world from vampires is a bit of a slap in the face to anyone who ever lost a parent who was a police officer, a firefighter or (Don’t want to open this can of worms but…) a soldier who died in action.
I think the major mistake this season was Wood and the Slayers. Not just because of the Kennedy-bot’s stiff line readings from last night’s episode but because it’s the same mistake the makers of the “ST:TNG” movies made. The fans want to see *those* characters and their interaction and instead we’re wasting time with a lot of peripheral characters.
I suspect that the source, and I wonder if PAD might comment on this as he has, unfortunately, found himself in the same position a few times recently, was trying to write an ongoing series that may or may not be coming to an end….?
I just wrote *way* too long a post to be following up with already but I just wanted to add, since it’s pretty much at the heart of my argument that the show is continuing to make the characters more and more unlikable and the relationships more and more painful to watch, that we’ve already seen Giles betray Buffy before and her respond with shutting him out. Yes, I agree with the idea that there’s something off about Giles and maybe it’s part of the fact that they only have him for a specific number of episodes but it’s almost like, “Hmmm, well what two formerly close, well-liked characters *don’t* hate each other yet…?”
Another thought regarding vampires not having souls: In one early episode, Giles was talking strategy to the gang, telling them something like ‘the vampires they are about to face may look like friends and relatives, etc., but they are actually the demons that killed them. When a vampire is created, the human personality and soul is released.’ And Angel (I believe) says something like ‘that’s not exactly true…’ To which Giles gave a condescending look, and kept talking.
I always wondered what that was about, and maybe this new stuff with Spike will develop the idea.
Another thought on souls: In “Doppleganger,” Giles is trying to comofort Willow’s normal anxiety at discovering that as a vampire she’s a skanky she-bìŧçh, and tells her something like “the demon has no traits from the original human,” and Angel pipes up with “Well, that’s not exactly true” before getting a “shut up and don’t disturb Willow further” look from Giles.
Seems quite natural that Spike still has a bit of William in him. It’s just that besides being mollycoddled, William might not have been a very nice man. Everybody’s been thinking of this soul thing in terms of Angel, and maybe Giles is the only one who has his head on straight here.
Pack–I agree with everything you said. 100%.
Also, his whole theory regarding Spike makes no sense — If Spike goes bad, Buffy can easily kill him.
Easily? I think that season two–and many later episodes–demonstrated that Buffy and Spike are about evenly matched. Even with a chip in his head, he was pretty formidable.
“More reruns suck, but it should let the season-ending crossover flow better than this backward one, since Angel will run all new eps until the season is over.”
The season, and possibly the series, since the WB renewed six shows yesterday with Angel not among them. With all the care that Mutant Enemy are taking to bring Buffy to a natural ending, it’s a shame they may not have the same chance with Angel.
Joss has apparently known for some time that Angel might not be renewed. He was trying to boost the network’s interest by proposing a “new paradigm” to shake up the series, should it return for another season. I vaguely remember a comment that the network would make a decision in May.
But ask yourself this: Do you really want to see Angel on the air a few years from now, with Angel going bald and still claiming to be immortal?
Assorted thoughts:
The most shocking thing about last night’s episode is that Principal Wood is (teeny-tiny SPOILER…) still alive. I mean, he’s not only an African-American on Buffy, he’s a principal at Sunnydale High. He should have been eaten months ago.
During most seasons of Buffy, one of the villains turns out to be a Little Bad, who’s killed and later replaced by a Big Bad. That hasn’t really happened so far this year.
Here’s a thought: What if the Big Bad is Spike?
Here’s another thought: What if it’s Buffy?
And a final comment, considering all the homo-erotic moments on last week’s Angel: If Evil Cordy really wants to ratchet up the tension in the group, she should seduce Fred.
–Daniel
(Not the Daniel who posted above. The other one.)
I think the balance of the evidence is that the original personality acts as the matrix for the vampire’s personality, but without the constraints of the soul the vampire can achieve the potential for evil that was present in the original person but that wouldn’t have emerged under ordinary circumstances. Compare the vampire Xander and Willow in “The Wish,” where she’s inventively nasty and he’s still sort of a dweeb. (Remember too that personality is partially a result of the cumulative effect of experience, and vampires retain their human memories, so it’s not surprising that the habits of life persist.)
My biggest problem with Buffy’s refusal to kill Spike comes from a line of her’s earlier in the season. When Spike said he was going to leave Buffy told him she didn’t want him to go. “Why?” he asked. “Because I’m not ready for you to not be here,” she replied in a very little girly “gosh you’re kinda dreamy” tone of voice. No noble statements about him being their strongest fighter or anything logical…just a very emotional reaction. That’s why I think she has a blind spot with regard to Spike. Her statements to Giles about Spike’s ability to fight to me sound like lame justifications for a totally illogical decision she has made. I think both Giles and Wood recognize Spike’s strength and ability to fight, but also see the level of risk involved in having Spike in their midst.
Two comments:
“Wood becoming hte first man to ever fight a vampire with RealPlayer”
As a Mac loyalist, it’s incumbent on me to correct this: Wood was clearly using the far superior iTunes. RealPlayer sucks!
“Hmmm, well what two formerly close, well-liked characters *don’t* hate each other yet…?”
The answer to that is that Buffy, Willow, and Xander don’t hate each other, and I think it is the relationship between the three of them that is key, even moreso than the relationship between Buffy and Giles.
Buffy may yet prove to be the Big Bad.
I’ve felt since I first saw the clip of Buffy’s speech from the end of “Bring on the Night” (the complete episode of which I missed), that this season Mutant Enemy is doing their (its?) own take on the U.S.A. at war, and that Buffy is Bush. The hoard of ubervamps would represent al Qaida (the apparently infinite enemy that can’t be stopped by the usual method).
I haven’t figured out ME’s slant on all this yet, but I’m probably wrong anyway.
And yeah, it was iTunes. I’m listening right now…
Ok just a quick note on Spike/Wood. And while this was already revelaed above I’m gonna hide it for those who don’t nessesarilt read all the replies. One of the replies, I don’t remember which one, said they were unsure why Spike went to kill Wood, and then why he didn’t. Personally I think the kinda got that acroos quite well. He was goingt o kill Wood because Wood wanted to kill him. Wouldn’t you kill someone if they told you they wouldn’t give up till you were dead? And as for why he didn’t. Spike left him alive as a small way of making up for killing Woods mom. He also knows that now that he’s aware of wood there isn’t anything Wood can do to get him. He’ll be ready from now on. Okay I’m done.
I suspect that the source, and I wonder if PAD might comment on this as he has, unfortunately, found himself in the same position a few times recently, was trying to write an ongoing series that may or may not be coming to an end….?
I don’t think that’s the case here. I think Whedon has always intended for the show to run seven seasons and that’s it.
Why? Because of the repeated references in the series to Seven Three Oh, 7:30. “Counting down to Seven Three Oh,” said Faith in a dream. I think “Seven” refers to the number of seasons the show was intended to run, and “Three Oh” or “30” refers to the old journalism tradition of writing -30- at the end of a story to indicate it was concluded.
Just my theory. Then again, it’s a better theory than bunnies. Or midgets.
PAD
I think the human’s memories and personality become the basis for the vampire’s personality, by the bloodlust and evil nature of the demon part makes them more uninhibited and therefore more likely to say or do things that they wouldn’t have done in life.
Therefore, William’s mother probably always hated his poetry, but didn’t want to hurt his feelings. William, being a mamma’s boy poet, was unusually sentimental and this carried over into his vampire life.
You can see the difference between soulless Spike and Angelus. Liam was defined by the resentment he felt towards his father, so Angelus becomes an expression of all of that rage.
Angelus loved Buffy, but the vampire was so sadistic, he could only express it in cruelty. Soulless Spike, though, still wants to take Mommy on an international killing spree, falls into an alcoholic depression when Dru dumps him, and tries to convince Buffy that he’s changed. Ultimately, winning his soul back makes sense in this context. Somewhere under all of that Billy Idol exterior, William the Bloody Awful Poet is there and still just wants a hug.