It’s fascinating to see conservatives tossing around quotes from pols they hold in contempt (most conspicuously Clinton) to try and prove…well, I’m not sure what.
But if quotes mean so much, then let’s have a few more, all of which underscore Bush’s commitment to a vision and his world-respected ability to express himself. Please be aware…there are no typos in any of the below. They’re “as is.”
I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. But in this case, it was a nation-building exercise. And same with Haiti. I wouldn’t have supported either. (GWB, 2000)
(W)e can’t be all things to all people in the world. I am worried about over-committing our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. I don’t think nation-building missions are worthwhile. (GWB, 2000)
But the use of the military needs to be in our vital interest. The mission needs to be clear and the exit strategy obvious. (GWB, 2000)
This country has no designs on Cuba’s soverty; we have no designs on the soverty of Cuba. (GWB, 2002)
The goals for this country are peace in the world. And the goals for this country are a compassionate American for every single citizen. (GWB, 2002)
Parents and educators will not be bystandards in education reform. (GWB, 2003)
These are folks that have hijacked a great religion and then take innocent life. And that’s a huge difference between America. (GWB 2002)
In my attitude, it doesn’t matter how high the hurdle is, we’ll cross it. (GWB 2003)
I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn’t here. (GWB 2002)
• 
Why does one need to show credentials? I am NOT running for office I am a voter giving his opinion.
Judge what I say on what it means and whether it makes sense.
It won’t make more sense if I said I am MD or a lawyer or a comic book writer or a lost Baldwin.
If you disagree with me – leave it at that? WHy are you so interested in WHO I am and WHAT degrees I have.
I don’t post my name b/c I’m not interested in ego and seeing a name in print underneath my view. I want to just exchange view points and point out the flaws in others. My advice or view shouldn’t make a difference to you if I have a certain degree. I am not performing a medical procedure a court case or running for office.
Your obsession with education is ponderous.
Then stop being so hypocritical. You accuse PAD of being so cocksure, yet your so convinced yourself.
Ben, At least Udog has added something to the thread, all of your post are petty jibes and pretty much you didn’t have to tell us that you haven’t graduated high school yet, your responses make that obvious.
Dude, if you look at my posts I have made plenty of points. Or maybe that was in the other thread, I can’t remember. The point is that all my attacks have been in response to his attacks.
I know at this point this may be old, but there’s a difference between criticizing a public official who technically “works for us” by calling him a name, and say, calling him up on the phone repeatedly to tell him he sucks, or sending him threatening or insulting letters and emails. I believe that would be harrassment of some sort. Udog, you have been doing the latter, regardless of whether or not you started off that way. Sure, PAD called you a moron, and perhaps he should have held back, but he didn’t call you up or track you down and bombard you with it. It is nice to see you have calmed down a bit, though.
The big problem with all this is that people seem to form their opinions first, and then find the material to back up those beliefs, to the point of ignoring anything that might challenge said belief. We all do it, consciously or not. We ignore or rationalize the information that puts a hole in our theory. There just doesn’t seem to be any absolutes in politics, and it sucks.
Udog writes:
Oh PLEASE! I am harassing and annoying b/c I hold a different viewpoint?
No, you’re annoying because you had just reposted the entire topic thread while replying, and I just had to clean up your mess. You’re also annoying because you YELL. Rudeness is merely another strike against you, as is hiding attacks behind a pseudonym.
I apologize for having to call you on all of this in the open, but since you’re not listing any direct contact information so that you could be contacted privately, it was either this or ban you outright. I’m glad to see that you’ve reacted so well to it.
I don’t know who you are – maybe the website adminstrator or whatever but I LOVE it – having his website censor someone.
Nope. We weren’t planning on taking any of your comments down; however, we don’t have to give you space on our server for any new screeds. You’re more than welcome to get your own webpage and type whatever your heart desires.
And regarding calling me a censor– I have a little plaque on my desk honoring me for my commitment to free speech by being a plaintiff in a Supreme Court specifically so that you can go off and set up that webpage and say whatever you want.
But we don’t have to host it.
Udog, the whole credential issue has been pointed out to you several times, but you seem to have overlooked it. So, one more time:
We want to know what your credentials are because you seem to think PAD and celebrities in general don’t have a right to talk about politics and they should stick to what they know. We want to know why it is that you are able to speak freely your political opinions but people of certain other professions should not.
Udog wrote:
**Bush is a pinhead
This was posted by Glen Hauman – yet I can’t insult PAD.**
Ah.
I see where the communication is breaking down. You see, calling Bush a pinhead is a compliment.
Rob
(Or, I suppose, an insult to pinheads. No wonder certain people get so upset!)
It’s not about having credentials, pal.
Of which you don’t have any either, so you lost whatever point you were trying to make long ago.
Thankfully, even though you’re hiding behind a username, you’re not as anonymous as you think you are.
Chris (Blue Spider) Arndt writes:
Hauman’s a leftist and only a lackey.
Leftist? I’ve been a Republican since I could register to vote, back in ’88. Must have been having the ACLU as a co-plaintiff on that aforementioned case to overturn the CDA…
As for the other bit, Peter claims my actual title is “head stooge”. Naturally, I responded by grabbing him by the hair and poking him in the eyes.
I never said celebrities cannot state their point of view. You mention Bruce Willis – he doesn’t go on programs and ridicule Democrats.
Is there a rule on how many times you can post? I didn’t know my posts are now the equivalent of calling up PAD on the phone.
If you look at every one of my posts they were in response and on topic. I never just name called. I don’t expect PAD to never talk about politics – I just would like it if he backed up commentary. Calling Bush a moron or a pinhead and leaving it at that doesn’t make much sesne.
Anad again, why would it matter what my credentials are?
I am a voter plain and simple stating a point of view. Does a degree hanging in an office make what I am posting any more relevant?
Yes you never just name called, but you rarley didn’t do so at least once per post. PAD almost always backs up what he says. Just look at the first three quotes. As for the credentials, that is about your thinking you have a right to express your views, yet no one else can. At least not without you insulting them.
What fascinates me is how so many folks on the left think that Bush is pretty much a moron…but also claim that they fully expect him to soundly trounce whoever they send against him. If Bush is really that stupid then Kerry or Edwards would have to be on the mental level of, say, a planarian worm to lose. But maybe my Democratic friends know something about the candidates that I don’t.
The intelligence of Bush’s political opponents isn’t the issue. The intelligence of easily led voters being jerked around by their patriotic impulses and fear is. If Bush wins again, it’ll be a failing of the American people, not of the men they don’t choose to replace the crooked, beady-eyed little twerp.
Ben Laser Said:
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying Sims seems to be taking the “It’s hopeless, I won’t vote” point of view.
Did I say that? Look at all the time and energy we waste on belittling the two parties. We give them so much more attention then they deserve. I bet they (the politicians) are loving it becuase it keeps most people to engaged in a war of words and semantics while they keep getting elected. You asked me why I don’t run for some sort of office? Maybe one day I will. But The system has been allowed to corrupt for so long that It going to take more than a few good eggs to make the changes necessary.
Do I have the answer, no. I’m just saying what’s n my mind.
However, despite the fact that I don’t agree with everything he says, if PAD runs for any sort of office where I have a vote, I will vote for him. Over the years of reading his columns and articles (and comics) I believe him to be a honest person – not afraid to speak his mind, stand up for his beliefs, and admit when he is wrong or made a mistake. Those 3 qualities seem to be lacking in many of the politicians out there now.
Ben – I’m sorry, I made a typo – Obviously I meant to write “Ben Lesar said:”
If I was more charismatic I’d consider running for office someday. Of course even then I’d bet I’d be lucky to get three percent of the vote based on my beliefs. I suppose I could always study rhetoric and at least try, but still I don’t see it happening.
The intelligence of Bush’s political opponents isn’t the issue. The intelligence of easily led voters being jerked around by their patriotic impulses and fear is. If Bush wins again, it’ll be a failing of the American people, not of the men they don’t choose to replace the crooked, beady-eyed little twerp.
I suppose there’s a certain smug satisfaction in believing that “the masses are áššëš”, as they say, but I find that to be self indulgent.
I’ve seen plenty of good men and women go down to defeat but it was usually because of some flaw in their campaign.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–the characterization of Bush as a mental monkey makes his job that much easier. When expectations are low it’s much easier to exceed them. But at this point the belief that Bush is an inferior intellect is practically religious dogma for many on the left. They can’t let go of it even if it is too their advantage to do so.
It’s not Bush making the smart decisions, it’s Cheney and Karl Rove mainly. In fact Cheney seems to even make decisions like the Iraq war. I bolded “seems” because people often ignore words like that and say things like “You can’t prove that” totally ignoring the fact that I’m just saying that it appears like he had an influence in that.
Sims, that “seems” thing wasn’t directed at you, even though you sort of did that.
I believe it was my POST in his prior BLOG about American intelligence that prompted him to do a NEW BLOG on “qyotes”.
Yeah, he tends to do that, as his words backfire on him, he starts a new blog to re-define his argument. He did that when he cried that the Jesus Castillo case was a blow against the right to free speech and was quickly proven wrong, so he started a blog on how even though the courts made the legally right decision, should it be right?
It is typical PAD.
I don’t post my name b/c I’m not interested in ego and seeing a name in print underneath my view.
See, whereas everyone else with balls simply figures that it’s an act of cowardice.
PAD
New blog. Point proven.
Hardly.
I suppose there’s a certain smug satisfaction in believing that “the masses are áššëš”, as they say, but I find that to be self indulgent.
Could be. On the other hand, the majority of Americans were handily convinced by Bush Inc. that Hussein was directly responsible for 9/11. They also seem to have an instinctive disregard for un-American activities like free speech (witness the Dixie Chicks outrage, and Bush Inc.’s stance that calling him on his bûllšhìŧ is unpatriotic).
The little fact that the lower the educational scores are in a state, the more likely that state is to go Republican, also speaks to the matter.
If Bush wins, and is actually elected to the presidency, it’ll be because of a lack on the part of Americans.
Bill Mulligan says: “the most appalling thing about the bombing of the Sudanese factory was that it seems to have been done solely to draw attention away from Clintons Grand jury testimony.”
So… the Whitewater investigation was more important than the pursuit and capture of terrorists? I’d think trying to put terrorists out of action is part of the job description for the President.
“Also–while the Sudanese are no better off than they were before their aspirin factory got trashed, only the most fervent Bushwhacker could imagine that the Iraqi people are not better off without the Saddam regime.”
From the evidence I’ve seen and heard by paying attention to the situation, no I really don’t believe that they *are* any better off now than they were before. Why and how does this make my point of view invalid? (Nice pre-emptive insult there, by the way. I’m underwhelmed. 😉 )
Before george pulled the trigger last March, the UN had the beginnings of a stranglehold on Saddam’s regime. The diplomacy was working, and if the cards had been played differently, the situation could’ve translated into a peaceful UN occupation and a lifting of those sanctions, and possibly even that cherished “regime change” george wanted so badly. And of course, if there had been violent resistence on the part of the regime, then war *might* just have been the proper response.
I understand that there would undoubtedly be complications, that such a plan would *not* be smooth. I just feel that there was every possibility that a real and honest attempt to resolve the situation peacefully existed, and that that opportunity was squandered.
Tim Byrd is the smartest man in America, just ask him!
I’ve seen plenty of good men and women go down to defeat but it was usually because of some flaw in their campaign.
Well, the #1 flaw is, obviously, that they were good men and women. 😉
Even though I was legal age for the 2000 election, I didn’t vote for the first time until this past year with the mayoral election here in Denver.
Do I plan to vote in the 2004 presidential election? I suppose, like in 2000, it depends on whether I think there is somebody worthy of my vote.
Does the ballot have a “I vote for none of these wáņkërš” box? 🙂
Tim Byrd is the smartest man in America, just ask him!
They don’t need to ask me, with my fans trumpeting it like this.
From the evidence I’ve seen and heard by paying attention to the situation, no I really don’t believe that they *are* any better off now than they were before.
I simply disagree and I doubt that the future will bring anything more than increasing numbers of mass graves to back me up on this. But the Iraqis will have the opportunity to return to a Baathast type dicatorship if they so choose so maybe you’ll be proven correct. I doubt it though.
Bill Mulligan says: “the most appalling thing about the bombing of the Sudanese factory was that it seems to have been done solely to draw attention away from Clintons Grand jury testimony.”
So… the Whitewater investigation was more important than the pursuit and capture of terrorists?
Ummm….no. I’m genuinely curious on how you got that from my statement. I’m scratching my head here. I said it was appalling to launch a military mission of dubious value to draw attention away from the whitewater mess and you think I’m saying that whiteater was more important than fighting terrorists??? I’m not being sarcastic here, I’m genuinely wondering how you got from point A to point Huh? here.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–the characterization of Bush as a mental monkey makes his job that much easier. When expectations are low it’s much easier to exceed them.
Absolutely true. How else can one explain the “Bush won the debates” cry that came up in 2000? He certainly didn’t seem to win on the facts — but since everyone expected him to basically come out drooling, exceeding those expectations made for a net win.
TWL
The little fact that the lower the educational scores are in a state, the more likely that state is to go Republican, also speaks to the matter.
Al Gore won high school dropouts and voters with post-graduate degrees. He lost high school graduates, voters with some college, and college grads.
The dumbest voters (if you belive that education and intelligence are linked) seem to go Democratic…as do the smartest (a very very small group.
If only voters who have at least graduated high school were allowed to vote the Republican would dominate by big numbers.
It’s comforting to think of the voters as dumb when they don’t vote your way. But it isn’t a good way to win elections so it probably isn’t very smart.
It’s comforting to think of the voters as dumb when they don’t vote your way. But it isn’t a good way to win elections so it probably isn’t very smart.
No, it’s not comforting at all. In fact, in spite of evidence to the contrary, I used to have a pretty idealistic opinion of my countrymen. Only watching them since 9/11 has convinced me they’re largely small-minded, uninformed, and alarmingly herd-like. Were it not for their impact on the world at large, my love of this land and the ideals it allegedly stands for, and the fact my son will have to live with the fallout, I’d just figure the herd will get what it deserves as they kill off the American experiment.
On the other hand, occasionally something bright seems to catch their attention momentarily, and they seem to pay attention (http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/02/06/bush_polls2/index.html). At those times, I regain some hope.
Only watching them since 9/11 has convinced me they’re largely small-minded, uninformed, and alarmingly herd-like.
What has made you think that? That when we saw 3,000 people killed that we wanted to uproot the very organizations that foster the hatred against us? Sometimes I think we aren’t going far enough considering we just stand by and let Saudi Arabia continue to fund schools that want nothing less than the destruction of all Western infidels.
God, it really burns me when people play with numbers like this when dealing with real peoples’ lives.
Then were you offended when people were using people’s lives to justify their rants against the President?
There is no play in what I do. I present the numbers to suggest that the four hundred volunteers that perished doing their duty and helping others in a far-off shouldn’t be used to suggest that 500 soldiers died as victims of some poor decision.
If you cannot divine the significance between a combat death, and war-time non-combat death then I am not certain it can be explained to you.
What I’m offended by is when people belittle the sacrifice made by the soldiers who died by trying to recatogorize them in order to fit a political agenda – and that’s whether it’s republican, democrat, or “fill-in-the-blank” party. Those soldiers ALL died as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Trying to minimize the sacrifice of some by saying that they would have somehow died anyway because that’s the statistics of the Army is insulting to them. If you’re truly comfortable with that argument, then tell me you’d be comfortable going to any one of the non-combat casualty’s families and saying it to their faces.
L.H. Hicks
What has made you think that? That when we saw 3,000 people killed that we wanted to uproot the very organizations that foster the hatred against us? Sometimes I think we aren’t going far enough considering we just stand by and let Saudi Arabia continue to fund schools that want nothing less than the destruction of all Western infidels.
Hey, you’re preachin’ to the choir on Saudi Arabia. Try preaching it to the Bush clan, who’re considered by high powered Saudis (including the bin Ladens) to be extended family.
Hmm…maybe that’s why we’re leaving them be…
If you’re one of the great number of folks who can’t see how someone would think going after al Qaeda is a good idea and overthrowing the Taliban was a good idea, but pushing both to the side to then dedicate the bulk of US resources to a needless war on a terrible but uninvolved party was a bad idea, I doubt I could explain it to you.
But here’s an issue you can chase: check how much money Bush pledged to rebuilding Afghanistan, then look up how much of that money he actually put into doing so. It’s stark and troubling even to someone who expects nothing but lies and corruption from the bášŧárd. And hey, Afghanistan is rapidly degenerating back into chaos, go fig.
But at least things are going well in Iraq. Heh.
Mission accomplished!
we just stand by and let Saudi Arabia continue to fund schools that want nothing less than the destruction of all Western infidels.
Mark, I agree completely with Tim. In fact, the truth of that quote of you is the main reason I disagree with the war in Iraq. If Iraq was the only country in the world with a cruel dictatorship or a fanatical theocracy, then I would have supported the war without a doubt.
Hey, you’re preachin’ to the choir on Saudi Arabia. Try preaching it to the Bush clan, who’re considered by high powered Saudis (including the bin Ladens) to be extended family. Hm…maybe that’s why we’re leaving them be… If you’re one of the great number of folks who can’t see how someone would think going after al Qaeda is a good idea and overthrowing the Taliban was a good idea, but pushing both to the side to then dedicate the bulk of US resources to a needless war on a terrible but uninvolved party was a bad idea, I doubt I could explain it to you.
Saying the bin Ladens are “extended family” is a gross oversimplification. We give the Sauds a pass because of the 25% of oil reserves there. Not because of Bush’s oil connections, but because the American economy/people would not stomach paying 40%-50% more for gas. I would like it to be different. I would like it if Ford and GM would work on alternative fuels so we could eliminate the Saudi power base.
Actually Bush is like extended family to them. They even gave him a special name of some sort. Someone want to pull up an article on that?
I’ve given him a few special names myself. But you’re right, they have given him a pet (as in pet monkey, I guess) name, and I’ll go find the info when I have time.
That was exactly what I was referencing, though. They do, indeed, consider the Bushs to be family.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–the characterization of Bush as a mental monkey makes his job that much easier. When expectations are low it’s much easier to exceed them.
Absolutely true. How else can one explain the “Bush won the debates” cry that came up in 2000? He certainly didn’t seem to win on the facts — but since everyone expected him to basically come out drooling, exceeding those expectations made for a net win.
Well, there was also the genuinely odd behavior Gore exhibited in the first debate and the somewhat sedated performance he did in the second. Gore lost the debates. You can say he won on the facts–(by which one usually means that the candidate agrees with ones own opinions)but he lost on the actual point of these debates, which is to convince people that you are worthy of the job.
Gore should have had the election sewn up. Just off the top of my head, maybe he should have taken some of the funds used to win overwhelmingly in California and invested them in his home state and/or Florida. Dumb strategy, just dumb.
Bill Mulligan says: “the most appalling thing about the bombing of the Sudanese factory was that it seems to have been done solely to draw attention away from Clintons Grand jury testimony.”
Me: “So… the Whitewater investigation was more important than the pursuit and capture of terrorists?”
“Ummm….no. I’m genuinely curious on how you got that from my statement. I’m scratching my head here. I said it was appalling to launch a military mission of dubious value to draw attention away from the whitewater mess and you think I’m saying that whiteater was more important than fighting terrorists??? I’m not being sarcastic here, I’m genuinely wondering how you got from point A to point Huh? here.”
My point was, that “mission of dubious value” was intended as retaliation for bombed embassies, to destroy a suspected chemical weapons factory. The timing of that mission during that particular point during the Whitewater investigation is always used to make Clinton’s decision look suspect. A little digging into the context of *both* of those aspects of his Presidency will reveal that Whitewater amounted to little more than political assination, while there is no evidence that the Sudanese bombing was without honest intentions. (Yes, whether that factory was for weapons or medicine is still a valid question, and while evidence would indicate that there was a mistake in intelligence, I found nothing that provided a conclusion to the matter.)
So I’ll ask another question: Why is it acceptable to question Clinton’s honour, but it’s not acceptable to question *Bush’s* honour (which is what started this dialogue in the first place)?
Why is it acceptable to question Clinton’s honour, but it’s not acceptable to question *Bush’s* honour
Well, that’s easy. You can impugn Clinton’s honor because he has some. Impugning Bush’s honor is like complaining about the color of his wings.
So I’ll ask another question: Why is it acceptable to question Clinton’s honour, but it’s not acceptable to question *Bush’s* honour (which is what started this dialogue in the first place)?
And I’ll answer–it’s perfectly acceptable. I assume this was directed at someone who, in addition to their other fine qualities, is not me, since I have no problem with you or anyone else saying whatever you like about the president. Indeed, I encourage all to make the loopiest, most scurrilous observations possible, since it provides fodder for snappy comebacks.
Of course, Clinton is to honor what Michael Moore is to personal hygene but it’s your call
Can we please have a new president? This is just embarassing…
I am usually a proud, patriotic American, but it is hard right now because our president is such an embarassment. If he has to be conservative, could he at least be able to form a coherent sentence?
My Tragedy
i was an iraqi scientist who graduated from uk universites many years ago and took a postgraduate degrees in two fields medical microbiology and clinical biochemistry.on 1983 they called mew back to iraq to meet the president at that time Saddam Hussien and he ordered me to leave the uk and come to work for my country .He mentioned the establishment of biological and chemical programme and said the life of my only sister Rabiha on danger if i dont come back and work for the sake of defeating the iranian aggresion on iraq.
i came back and established the two programmes but on 1999 i escaped from iraq with my sister to Abu Dhabi after sellinmg our house and handling all ita money to the intelligence of Saddam.
In Abu Dhabi i worked as the head of science dept in an american school called oxford school .i was very happy with my only sister and a good salary from that school till 2003 when a local man phoned me and told me his highness shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid the crown prince of Dubai wanted me to work for him.The man name was Suliaman Ahmed Suliaman and his mobile number 6511126.I went with him and dined with his highness the shaikh on one friday in the shaikh farm behind Zayed Road.Another \local man joined us .His name was Obeid and his mobile numnber 4527557.
The shaikh and his subordinates wanted to know the secret of Saddam Hussien programmes and where are the weapons of mass destructions.I gave all the secrets and how to manufacture botulinum and anthrax poisons.They were satisfied with what i gave and promised to reward me with a very good job.
Afterward i was very lonly and they didnt keep their promise.i suffered alot in Dubai and my sister left to iraq.Then they gave me a very humble job as a clerk in the dept of health in Dubai.My sufferings were untolerable and i protested on that job but they threatened me if i dont agree and keep silent they are going to kill me or at least deport me.
I asked them to send me back to my country iraq with dignity but they refused.
One day they phoned me and told me a man with the name of Ali with a mobile number 2523932 will visit me where i am residing and will give me a gift from the shaikh.I waited and Ali came with three men .they took me to destiny unknown and tortured me all the night on 19/3/2005.I asked them please tell me what crime have i done .they kept me all night standing on my feet and tortured me with different wayes like electricity , hitting and cold water.They reminded me of Saddam Hussien and his methods.i thought to my self all arabs are the same.They took all my belongings and i begged for my medicine but they carried on torturing me till i fainted.
it was the horrible nightmare of my life.
in the morning they took me to Dubai airport and they were frightened as they increased in number more than 100 from that gang.They did very illegal acts to deport me.they faked many papers and gave bribes to some officials in the airport.All their acts were illegal and i told them that but they hitted me badly.They confiscated my car and took all credit cards from my poket.Isnt that a roberry?
I was after half an hour on board an aeroplane which took me to Baghdad.Before that i asked them to give my clothes , medicine and to withdraw some money but they refused. They also robbed from my pocket the key and documents of my car,
Now i am in Baghdad streets without clothes money or medicine. They stole my car and took its key with credit cards from my pocket.I dont know what to do.I contacted the British Embassy in Baghdad asking them for any job but they declined me.
I am asking the british or american governtments to help me on hummanitarian bases.
I dont have any connection in Baghdad and dont know what to do.My sister and her family died in a recent explotion .i am living in the streets of Baghdad because i dont have a penny on me.
i spent the last week on streets and very frightened from terrorists.
Please help me going to any country in the world whom can offer me a political assylum or any job.
i wrote many letters to the governtment of united arab emirates but they never answered me.they are very unhuman like all other arabs and muslims.
Please dont let me down . i appeal to your conscience.In one of his most memorable poems T.S.Eliot wrote :
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the shadow.
Its a very heavy shadow indeed that has always fallen between my aspiration and realities-and the prospect now that the yawning gulf may this time , with your help , will not lead as usual to more disillusionments and more frustrations.
Professor Hamid Ramdhan Mesafir Al- Laebi
0096407902271635
009647901518515
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