While it is one thing to post Spoilers for an episode that has already aired in the US (and notice I keep them out of the initial part of my blog entries so folks in the UK or who have had eps pre-empted don’t have to see them), I’ve given it some thought and am not going to allow deliberate spoilers of shows that haven’t hit the airwaves yet.
At the VERY least, I am requiring that such posts use the “invisible” format which, if anyone is confused, I’m sure Glenn will be happy to post a reminder of how to use it. [Spoiler text can be made invisible by surrounding the text with <font color=”#bdc4df”> and </font> and reminders are now above the Post Comment button so you have no excuse– GH] Posts which do not make any endeavor to do anything except wreck upcoming events–such as that put up by “Spoiler Boy” over in the “Angel” thread–I will simply delete, as I’ve done with that particular post on the off-chance there are those who haven’t seen it yet.
Personally, I despise advance spoilers, because they can make any story–no matter how well executed–sound trivial and stupid. As a writer, I find them offensive.
PAD
• 
I totally agree. I’m STILL p–sed at the junior high classmate who managed to spoil the Darth/Luke connection in “Empire” before any of us could see it. For that reason alone–even though I have inside knowledge that C3PO, R2D2 & Chewbacca all die in “Episode III”–I’m not going to reveal this to ANYONE…!
I agree, spoilers can make stories sound trivial and stupid. That’s why I never read Angel or Alias spoilers, but I always read Buffy spoilers. Because that’s already trivial and stupid.
Gee, I wonder why reruns even get ratings at all?
I for one am not totally annoyed by Spoilers. Sometimes with certin situations I find it annoying, but not to the extent that the plot is ruined for me.
Sometimes, for me at least, It’s an added bonus to hear a little about the upcoming plot, and be able to track the clues coming up in the episode.
Am I the only one who’s like this? Just curious. Spoilers just don’t bug me that much. The plots are still just as fun, even on repeated viewings.
I guess thats why I still have a ball reading comics. Even though I know, ultimately the heros will win, It’s still fun to see how they deal with it.
But maybe thats just me…
For my part, I don’t want to know before I’m “supposed” to know anything about a plot but generalities. I will certainly rewatch a film or show, or reread a comic, but there’s a certain magic in discovering something during the first viewing that spoilers, well, spoil.
The other side of spoilers, though, is that they are almost always devoid of context, and something that sounds logical and natural in context may well sound illogical and stilted out of context.
Who was it that posted the Spoilers in the Angel Thread?
Someone actually called Spoiler Boy,or is that the nickname everyone is calling him now that he posted the info?
All I gotta say is “screw ya all!” I can’t watch Buffy until tomorrow night. Curse you basement-dwelling Milwaukee Brewers!
I actually have the reverse opinion.
I crave spoilers.
I guess because I’m more fascinated with the “how” than the “what” of a story.
But I know I’m in the extreme minority.
Peter — and others,
I’ve often wondered about the ettiquette of SPOILERS. If I were to speculate what I think might be happening with Spike on next season’s Angel without any advance knowledge, just making my best logical guess about things, would that be a spoiler? I know that if I’ve read a script so I know what’s happening that’s a spoiler. But if I’m just theorizing and hypothesizing does ettiquette require that I post such theories as spoilers?
Bob
My big beef with spoilers is actually two parts: Didn’t want to know THAT much about the story and WHERE do these guys get the info? I picked up that Time mag with Matrix on the cover and then had to force myself to NOT read the spoiler portion but they threw so much info into the rest of the article that I couldn’t avoid more than I wanted to know. The Angel thread and the Buffy spoilers for the finale are more upsetting because of what’s in them than my fore-knowledge. At least until it airs, I can pretend it’s NOT true. If it does come to pass as predicted (like the Angel spoilers) then I will be upset. But then again, I also read the novels before the movie. Although with Spider-Man and the like I only read up until the climax. I save that for the movie. (Although I had to put the Hulk book down cause it was pìššìņg me off! Not the writing but the material) So I like some spoilers and like watching movie trailers but don’t want to know everything. Seeing the two bladed lightsaber in the trailers is one thing…seeing Maul get cut in half would’ve REALLY ruined it. To sum up…friendly theorizing is fine and fun… revealing some “facts” about stuff is fine as long as it’s not THE stuff (dámņ Time magazine!) and as far as this site is concerned it should all definitely be INVISIBLE!
Well, I don’t care what PAD says! I have some exclusive info about how the series ends and I’m posting it!
Buffy sits up in bed with a terrified gasp. “Honey, wake up, you won’t believe the nightmare I just had,” Kristy Swanson says.
“That’s it… No more Chinese for you before bed,” Luke Perry replies.
Hey Pack,
A Fellow Newhart fan!
Well, Peter: will you be deleting the casting spoiler in the news item about Angel’s renewal? I will admit to having heard that one before, but if I hadn’t, I’d be pìššëd, because it closes off one plot possibility for the Buffy finale.
**Peter — and others,
I’ve often wondered about the ettiquette of SPOILERS. If I were to speculate what I think might be happening with Spike on next season’s Angel without any advance knowledge, just making my best logical guess about things, would that be a spoiler? I know that if I’ve read a script so I know what’s happening that’s a spoiler. But if I’m just theorizing and hypothesizing does ettiquette require that I post such theories as spoilers?**
I know that some people post “Spoilers” next to educated guesses, but I’ve never felt that speculation remotely qualifies as a spoiler. If you have no inside information, if you’re just making a best guess, then that’s all it is. A guess. If you turn out to be right, the initial posting doesn’t become a retroactive spoiler. Just a really good guess.
And no, I’m not deleting the casting item which I myself posted, because that’s been openly reported in several news media, including “Variety.” Besides, look at it this way: Just because a particular actor has been cast in “Angel,” we don’t know for sure what the status of his character will be. So there’s still plenty to be discovered the normal way.
PAD
PAD: “And no, I’m not deleting the casting item which I myself posted, because that’s been openly reported in several news media, including ‘Variety.'”
— As a genre professional you probably have to read Variety; plenty of other people don’t. Plenty of other-other people try to avoid press reports about Buffy/Angel precisely because of announcements like this. I realize that you’re not intending to run the super-hardass spoiler policy they have at, for instance, televisionwithoutpity.com, but even the average person shouldn’t take the attitude “If I’ve heard it, everyone else must have too”; more so if you really keep up with things.
I was going to argue that the lack of, as you say, “status” information in the casting announcement does *too* close off options, but I just came up with more than one way ME could get around that if they really wanted to, so I’ll defer to you on that.
**Buffy sits up in bed with a terrified gasp. “Honey, wake up, you won’t believe the nightmare I just had,” Kristy Swanson says.
“That’s it… No more Chinese for you before bed,” Luke Perry replies. **
**Hey Pack,
A Fellow Newhart fan!
**
wait… THAT’S how Newhart ends?!?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
😉
-eD!
i hate spoilers. hate them, hate them, hate them.
the day someone let it slip who dunit in Scream 2 i let into him and all his dork buddies who didn’t make any attempt to lower their voices like a ton of bricks.
and his little dog, too.
i just hate them. there’s a point of teaser that you must bring to any serial that gets viewers/readers to come back for more. then there’s giving away the store.
i liked it when i saw a preview for Supergirl #75 last year that had you know who on the cover. but i did NOT want to know how that occurred until i read the story. same with TV, movies, etc. tho with movies nowadays, it’s a gimme that the hero always wins and gets the girl in the end.
I am also one of these people who enjoy reading spoilers. On the other hand, my husband is the complete opposite: The less he knows in advance, the better. I respect that and agree that it is important to give people the opportunity to choose themselves what they want to know in advance or not. Although I can`t be spoiled, only teased, I am always using spoiler warning and protection where I think it is appropriate.
Why do I enjoy reading spoilers? First of all, I am very curious. I want to know what is going on as early as possible and also, I want to be able to form some preliminary opinion as early as possible. By now I have a lot of experience how to take spoilers. For example, I know which people usually have the same taste as me and a good idea what is a well written, thoughtful review and what is nitpicking and bashing. I do my best to approach them open minded and to read both, positive and negative comments. Afterwards I already have a good idea if I will like this episode, movie, book etc. or not and it is indeed very rare that my opinion differs a lot after watching or reading.
To me, reading spoilers adds to my enjoyment of what I watch or read. When I read a book I really enjoyed, I read it at least twice. The reason is, I can see much more clearly then how the story is built and look at the fineries instead of just following of what is going on. I especially had that experience when I watched the first Babylon 5 DVD set. Now that I know the complete series, I could really appreciate how JMS built this story from the very beginning and noticed fineries for the first time I found fascinating to watch. Also, even after having read New Frontier for numerous times, I am still finding bits and pieces that make me think. Also to me, what is important is the journey.
Knowing spoilers also gives me a good idea if I should bother spending my money and time on something or not. I also think, to a certain degree they are also a good way of advertising.
To some people there is no difference between a spoiler and a teaser but I think offering some information that goes beyond the back cover of a book (that sometimes says very little and on occasion is even misleading)helps to draw attention, to make people curious and already start speculations and discussions. I think Marco Palmieri, editor of the DS9 Relaunch books, did a brilliant job here before the start of the series.
I think this place should use this opportunity. For example, I have pre-ordered Fallen Angel but I only did so because the series is written by PAD. I have no idea what it is about, what to expect and if the concept will be something I find appealing. Soon new Apropos, a new Knight and new New Frontier will be out. I think you, PAD, should use this place to tell people about these books and series. Why should someone who never tried them give them a chance, buy them or at least get them from a library?
Being a spoiler fan and curious, I would love some appetizers, I admit it 🙂 But even some general information, including the back cover text and maybe also showing the cover art (as you did with Fallen Angel), would be helpful and draw some attention.
Anyway, I don`t think I will reply to anything written here that is using the blank spoiler protection technique but discuss something like that at other places where I can use simple spoiler space.
Frankly, I’ve never really minded spoilers myself, and as I’ve seen, PAD has written the word on some of his entries here so that people can know.
As long as there’s a note, it’s a-okay with me.
Peter,
I know what you mean about a spoiler making the actual event seem trivial or something. I had heard a spoiler from last week’s Buffy about her going into a house, throwing out the owner, and taking it over. Simply hearing about this makes Buffy seem out of character and uncaring. When, in the actual episode, I saw that she entered the house figuring it was alone and didn’t throw the man out of his house, she pointed out that with what was happening in the city he might be safer if he left town. Then, after he left, she did stay in the house. This, while still troubling in one sense, was, at least more in character for the character.
This is why it is important to approach spoilers carefully. If something seems out of character, I would wonder why and if there is a good reason behind it. It also helps to also read what other people have to say, if they agree or disagree – and provide some explanation.
To me it is interesting to read PAD`s texts and comments about Buffy and Angel here. Both series are shown here in Britain on satellite TV but we are slightly behind. When I finally watch them I often remember what I read before and find it interesting to see if I would have agreed to PAD`s comments or not. Unfortunately, by then it is too late to come back to these discussions which is, by the way, another reason why I like spoilers. If something really big and decisive happened, even without having seen the episode I can nevertheless comment before most people moved on and have little interest to discuss what happened any more.
In general, I pretty much agree with what PAD writes about Angel but I think he is much too harsh on Buffy. Bob`s remark reminded me of what I read recently, that Dawn kicked out her sister of her house. My first reaction was, really? That is hard to believe. And when I saw the episode, I don`t think this is what happened at all. I agree that the big events in Angel are missing so far in Buffy but nevertheless, I enjoy the series and am curious how it will end.
Would a ‘spoiler’ which doesn’t really constitute a ‘spoiler’?
Someone above mentioned the bit about Luke and his father. I found out about that a few months after the first film hit the screen. It didn’t detract from the quality of the second when I went to see that one a couple of years later.
In fact, ‘spoilers’ are a good indicative of the quality of a film/story. Take 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. I know just about everything about how it was made, how the effects were carried out, the what and whys of the whole thing.
It is still my favourite film. When I watch the stewardess aboard the Aries lunar shuttle do her walk up the wall and across the ceiling, I KNOW how it was done. I don’t care. It still looks pretty dámņ neat anyway.
Ditto the original (and better) PLANET OF THE APES where I knew how it ended going into the theatre. Didn’t matter. The story carried me along well enough that the ending still hit me hard.
In other words, it was good enough to survive all the spoilers people could throw at me.
Heck, look at COLUMBO. In all but the last episode of the first run, you KNEW who the killer was right off. How’s that for a spoiler? People didn’t care. It was still a lot of fun to watch.
By Pack:
Well, I don’t care what PAD says! I have some exclusive info about how the series ends and I’m posting it!
Pack,
It may be one thing to post spoilers here, but…
Do you think it’s appropriate to go around insulting people whom you don’t even know personally on a board that isn’t even your property, something that can amount to abuse of someone else’s property?
Perhaps you’d care to explain why, in an earlier thread in which I was discussing stereotypes, you and others of your ilk chose to resort to insulting language when responding to me when you didn’t have to? And perhaps you’d care to explain why you took my arguments so seriously and personally too?
odessa writes “I crave spoilers. I guess because I’m more interested in the “how” than the “what” of a story.”
I’m in total agreement. Furthermore, I always skip to the end of a good book before I’m a third into it. If the book is so-so, then I probably won’t. If I am enjoying a story, however, and if it matters to me what happens to the characters then I absolutely can’t wait. Then I go back and read the whole thing to see how it all happened. Am I really that much in the minority?
Yeah, you probably are.
Seriously though, a story works much better without reading spoilers. I just LOVED the twist at the end of Angel’s “Awakening”, “Calvary” and “Peace Out”.
Great surprises, and they wouldn’t have worked at all when you already knew about them.
**Buffy sits up in bed with a terrified gasp. “Honey, wake up, you won’t believe the nightmare I just had,” Kristy Swanson says.
“That’s it… No more Chinese for you before bed,” Luke Perry replies. **
**Hey Pack,
A Fellow Newhart fan!
**
wait… THAT’S how Newhart ends?!?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
😉
-eD!**
Hey! “Newhart” did that too?
At least they didn’t do that thing where Giles spells out “Goodbye” to Buffy using the rocks, right?
I often wonder whether it would have been possible for the Newhart people to keep their big series finale moment a secret if it were to happen now. That was just before the internet really hit among the masses.
Last year on the Bold & the Beautiful, the producers were able to keep it quite (for almost a month) that a fan favorite villianess was returning but NO ONE KNEW and the end of that episode would not have had the impact it did had it been revealed before hand that this particular character was returning. Some how this show was able to keep it all underwraps, out of all the soap opera mags out there, and I for one appreciated it A LOT! I hate plot and character spoilers, for me otherwise there would be no fun left in the entertainment of reading a book or watching a tv show or movie.