9:01–Welcome to the VP debate, being held at a university I’ve never heard of, being fought between two guys whose names I keep forgetting.
9:02–And I’m watching on ABC where they just reported that more than 40% of Americans can’t remember the VP candidates’ names, so apparently I have company.
9:04–And I have never heard of the moderator, so at least I’m being consistent.
9:05–Crap. I’m not sure which one is which.
9:06–Aaaaand he’s not answering the question. Why can’t they EVER ANSWER THE ÐÃMNÊÐ QUESTION?!
9:07–Just once I’d love to hear an opponent say, “He didn’t answer the question.” Ah, okay. Finally, he kind of responded. Sort of.
9:08–Didn’t need to launch an attack on Trump so early.
9:08–Aw, his grandfather immigrated here. And since we all know how much Trump loves immigrants, I’m sure he’d have been welcome by a Trump administration.
9:10–Believe me, if he gets elected, we’ll all be praying.
9:10–Why don’t people trust her? Because the GOP has been attacking her nonstop for a quarter of a century, that’s why. Pretty easy question.
9:11–Don’t bother attacking Trump. It’s not going to have any impact. His supporters adore him blindly.
9:12–Yes, the Middle East is spinning out of control, largely because of Bush’s actions that destabilized it. And the first interruptions go flying.
9:13–Seriously, dude? He’s accusing the Clinton campaign of insults, considering all the crap that Trump typically does.
9:15–Kaine seems to be getting the upper hand, listing Clinton’s positive accomplishments.
9:15–Oh thank God, she took charge.
9:16–So far this is insane. Two guys who keep interrupting each other, hurling talking points that we’ve already heard done to death.
9:17–But Obamacare IS a good start, you moron. Not that Trump has suggested any kind of improvement. He just says he’ll get rid of it immediately and substitute “something great” without any specifics.
9:19–“Do you want a you’re hired or you’re fired President.” Yeah, he just came up with that quip off the top of his head.
9:20–I wish Pence would stop shaking his head. He looks like a dámņëd bobblehead.
9:21–No, Trump never actually promised to release his income taxes.
9:21–Crap, Pence pointed out what I just pointed out. Not sure how to feel about. And yes, it IS all working. Economy is up and there are more jobs.
9:22–Yes, he can roll out the numbers, because the numbers are relevant.
9:22–She’s keeping on him. I’m starting to like her. She’s acting like a reporter.
9:23–He’s continuing to avoid answering the question. Which really answers the question.
9:24–Oooo, Kaine is driving it home.
9:25–Yes, thank you, moderator, telling them to stop talking over each other.
9:27–I love it. Pence is trying to dodge his voting record and things that were in a book.
9:31–Marc Yturralde on his Facebook page says that Pence looks like a constipated Race Bannon. My God, he’s right. That should become a meme.
9:32–Wow, they actually agree on something. Ooop, no, now Pence is screwing up the moment of agreement and using it to attack Clinton. Seriously?
9:34–So much for her asking them not to interrupt each other.
9:35–Ah, so Pence has one black friend. How nice.
9:36–Boy, Pence is not only not answering her questions, he’s ignoring her repeated attempts to get him to respond.
9:37–Yes, Trump said all this, and his supporters still adore him. Which implies that they agree with him, which is even more frightening.
9:38–What in hëll do those policies have to do with jobs? Oh, horrors, immigrants are coming into the United States and taking jobs Americans don’t want. And the problem with that is…?
9:39–Wait, the things that Kaine said were all quotes from Trump, you moron! And yes, half of his supporters ARE deplorable! I thought that was obvious!
9:41–No, Trump never apologizes. Another aspect of his campaign that the deplorables adore about him.
9:42–It’s not nonsense! They’ve said it!
9:45–Immigrants are criminals? Really? How about this: “5. Illegal immigrants bring crime.
Nationally, since 1994, the violent crime rate has declined 34% and the property crime rate has fallen 26%, even as the number of undocumented immigrants has doubled. According to the conservative Americas Majority Foundation, crime rates during the period 1999–2006 were lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates. During that period the total crime rate fell 14% in the 19 top immigration states, compared to only 7% in the other 31. Truth is, foreign-born people in America — whether they are naturalized citizens, permanent residents, or undocumented — are incarcerated at a much lower rate than native-born Americans, according to the National Institute of Corrections.
You can find more at this website: Check it.
9:47–Why the hëll does Kaine KEEP SHAKING HIS HEAD whenever Trump is quoted?!?
9:48–“See if you can defend any of it.” Yes, let’s hear it.
9:49–America is less safe? Really?
9:49–Really. See, I seem to recall that Isis rose up because Bush destabilized the region by killing Saddam Hussein. Meanwhile the GOP demanded that our troops be brought home. But Pence condemns Hillary Clinton for NOT keeping troops there.
9:51–It seems to me that the moderator is targeting Pence more than Kaine. Which I’m fine with, honestly. I think he has the bigger problems to be defended. Or maybe she’s just pìššëd that he keeps not answering her questions.
9:53–Seriously? He’s trying to keep Syrians out because of things that happened in other countries by a handful of áššhølëš?
9:54–Pence keeps trying to defend the notion of bias by someone based on their country.
9:55–Boy, Kaine’s eyebrows are weird. It looks like they were drawn on by a drunk Bugs Bunny.
9:56–“Asymmetrical enemies?” What the hëll are those? Have we only have symmetrical enemies until now?
9:57–I wish she’d reach over and slap him. She should have an airhorn that she could blast at them when they keep interrupting her.
9:58–Wait, hold on. Pence is criticizing Putin? Trump’s best pal? Holy Hëll, I’m astounded. I wonder if he’s gonna be called on that.
10:00–If Hillary Clinton attacked Putin in this way, Trump would launch another Twitter war.
10:01–There we go. Took him thirty seconds to bring up Trump’s endorsing of Putin. And Pence apparently said Putin was a better leader than Obama.
10:02–And she points out that Kaine is likewise not responding.
10:03–Stop bringing up the taxes; the point’s been made. Trump doesn’t pay taxes and says he’s smart not to do so; we get it.
10:04–If one of them answers a question I may have a heart attack.
10:05–No, it was not a low shot at all. Every sane person is terrified that Trump might start a nuclear war. Military experts say he’s not authorized to have his finger on the nuclear weapons. It’s a perfectly reasonable concern to voice.
10:07–I feel like there is 45 minutes of material that we’re now seeing repeated.
10:08–Trump has never praised Putin. Except yes, he has. Like here.
10:10–Enough with the tax returns!
10:11–Seriously? The running mate of the guy who kisses Putin’s ášš is trying to attack Clinton on Russia?
10:13–So now he’s trying to roll back Trump’s praising Putin.
10:14–Ah yes, the Clinton Foundation, which gets four star rated for its charitable efforts, as opposed to the Trump Foundation which is being attacked by the New York Attorney General.
10:19–PENCE KEEPS SHAKING HIS HEAD AND KAINE KEEPS GOING BACK TO THE TAX RETURNS. I’M STARTING TO GET SICK OF BOTH OF THEM.
10:20–Yeah, we never got back to North Korea.
10:21–And Elaine has to ask her question again. Jesus.
10:23–Oy. Faith. This is going to end well.
10:26–Please don’t turn this into a pro/anti-choice debate.
10:26–Can gay people adopt?
10:27–God dámņņìŧ. Pence takes a softball question about faith and turns it into an attack on Clinton about abortion. What a freaking áššhølë.
10:28–STOP SHAKING YOUR HEAD! TRUMP SAID THAT! HE SAID WOMEN SHOULD BE PUNISHED!
10:29–Wait, weren’t women sending Pence menstrual pads because of his attitudes? Or am I misremembering?
10:31–Yes. He is. Right here.
10:31–Wow, I’m fact checking.
10:33–Considering Trump’s entire campaign is about divisiveness, I’m really interested in his answer.
10:34–And he’s not answering it.
10:35–It’s over. Thank God.
• 
Wish I could forget Pence but he has been trashing my state for the last four years.
Remember when we talked about how Republicans won’t admit they lost a debate even when they did? Remember we were told how they judge these things fairly and don’t just claim their guy won? You know how they keep saying Trump won the debate (at least when they stop making up 500 excuses for his poor performance)?
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Earlier today they accidentally published their post debate comments for the VP debate that hadn’t even happened yet. The piece, which was presumably set to publish once the debate was over, declared that “the consensus was clear after the dust settled, Mike Pence was the clear winner of the debate.”
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It congratulated Pence on perfectly sharing Trump’s view and for taking the best advantage of the opportunities presented him in the debate to come away the clear winner. It even had a link for Pence’s top debate moments in it.
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You know, in the debate that hadn’t even started when they went live with the post.
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They yanked it once Twitter started humiliating them over it. Anyone want to make a bet on who they declare the undisputed winner of the debate tonight?
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/04/republican-national-committee-mike-pence-debate-winner/91576394/
“Boy, Pence is not only not answering her questions, he’s ignoring her repeated attempts to get him to respond.”
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Yes, of course. He has to get all of his memorized, rehearsed soundbite statements in in between mocking Kaine for having rehearsed bits.
“Wait, the things that Kaine said were all quotes from Trump, you moron! And yes, half of his supporters ARE deplorable! I thought that was obvious!”
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Of course he acts like Trump never said any of that. Trump supporters are becoming almost cult-like. It’s only true if they say it is- even if it contradicts what they said five minutes ago.
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Only half?
“Almost cult-like”?
At this point Jim Jones is rolling over in his grave WISHING his followers had been that blind, stupid, and loyal….
“Pence is criticizing Putin? Trump’s best pal?”
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Trump admires brutality and bullying. He doesn’t praise leaders who treat their neighbors or their people well, he praises- practically idolizes -leadership like Putin’s. He cheers the bully for being cruel, and condemns the ones who won’t crack down on their own people hard enough. He praises the actions of dictatorships. You can see his love for such actions reflected in how he treats underlings and people he can get away with stepping on, and in his business dealings in general.
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This is from a 1990 Trump Playboy interview. He praises the Communist Chinese government for being brutal with things like Tiananmen Square.
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Tiananmen fûçkìņg Square…
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Interviewer: “What were your other impressions of the Soviet Union?”
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Trump: “I was very unimpressed. Their system is a disaster. What you will see there soon is a revolution; the signs are all there with the demonstrations and picketing. Russia is out of control and the leadership knows it. That’s my problem with Gorbachev. Not a firm enough hand.”
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Interviewer: “You mean firm hand as in China?”
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Trump: “When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak … as being spit on by the rest of the world—”
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Interviewer: “Why is Gorbachev not firm enough?”
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Trump: “I predict he will be overthrown, because he has shown extraordinary weakness. Suddenly, for the first time ever, there are coal-miner strikes and brush fires everywhere- which will all ultimately lead to a violent revolution. Yet Gorbachev is getting credit for being a wonderful leader and we should continue giving him credit, because he’s destroying the Soviet Union. But his giving an inch is going to end up costing him and all his friends what they most cherish-their jobs.”
Kaine cannot claiim to be Catholic and support the Pro-Choice, (anti-life, since you saiid anti- choice), agenda of the Democratic Party. They are mutually exclusive. This is also true of Pelosi and Biden. And a “softball question” about faith has everything to do with abortion.
Dream on, Georgie.
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You’ve been slapped down so many times here over this stuff and coming back for more that i visualise you as a Weeble.
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Or perhaps it’s “Thank you, sir! May I have another?”
Mike, my point, which is obvious, is that the Catholic Church is Pro-Life. If you have information that disputes that please post it. Kaine, (and Pelosi, Biden and every other Democrat claiming to be Catholic), are not adhering to a basic tenet of the faith. They should not call themselves Catholic. Even Pope Francis, whom the left seems to embrace for his seemingly liberal views, has not changed the Church’s position on abortion. And he never will. Nor will his successor and the successor after that.
“You’ve been slapped down so many times here over this stuff and coming back for more that i visualise you as a Weeble.”
Uh, criticized? Yes. Debated? Yes. Called names? Definitely. Slapped down? No. I have never been slapped down because my position has the obvious benefit of being morally correct.
“Kaine cannot claiim to be Catholic and support the Pro-Choice”
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Yes, George, he can. Despite the idiotic “logic” of the fundamentalist, extremist wing of the American conservative movement, you can in fact be a Catholic and not choose to force by act of law everyone else in the United States to live by the rules of your dogmatic beliefs.
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As you’ve been told before- if you want so desperately to live in a fundamentalist paradise where religion rules the creation of law in all ways, feel free to move to the Middle East. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.
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In the meantime, we’ll stay here in the US where people like Kaine, Kerry, Pelosi, Biden and others have the brains to understand what you deliberately refuse to understand, where people like Kaine, Kerry, Pelosi, Biden and others understand the basics of our freedoms and our Constitution better than people like you.
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Kaine understands a simple, basic, obvious fact that you just don’t seem to want to grasp. If you’re running for office, you’re running to be a governor, a senator, or a president and not running to be the Pope or Priest in Chief. You’re not running for church office, you’re running for a political office.
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And, really, we know that you and the others like you are actually nothing but hypocrites. You want to claim that people like Kaine can’t be Catholic unless they treat public office like papal office, but you’d be the first person whining like a baby if someone who wasn’t of your faith were to act in such a manner.
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Let a nice Jewish fellow get into office and ban pork and watch people like you complain. Hëll, let a Muslim even take office and people like you go into hysterics and burble on about Sharia Law. Watch people like you cry about church and state when someone tries to force you by an act of law abide by their POV of how you remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. I hope you live in easy walking distance of your church. That whole no driving thing could be a real bìŧçh otherwise.
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Maybe we should follow the Bible and start stoning people to death again for things like adultery?
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“If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.”
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Seriously, how can all those “Christian” conservatives dare call themselves Christian when they won’t support common sense laws like putting a man and woman to death for adultery? Or what about killing people for working on your chosen holy day? How can lying scum like you call yourself Christian when you can’t even follow the word of God?
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“Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
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Or, you know, we can not insist that you have to be a fundamentalist whacko to still qualify as “Catholic” in a sane world.
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I mean, we know you really want Sharia Law, you just want your version of it and not someone else’s. The thing is, the smart people don’t want any form of it. I don’t want their version of Sharia Law any more than I want yours.
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Intelligent people have a fundamental understand of faith that seems to allude you and others like you all too often, George. My faith is my faith. My beliefs are my beliefs. They are not yours, they are not Peter’s, they are not Kaine’s.
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They are mine.
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If I were to ever hold elected office, it would not be a part of my job as an office holder to force by act of law you or anyone else to live by the dictates and restrictions of my faith.
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Maybe one day you’ll figure that out.
Jerry, I don’t know if you are Catholic but you appear to presenting yourself as an authority on Catholicism.
“Kaine cannot claiim to be Catholic and support the Pro-Choice”
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Yes, George, he can”
No, he can’t.
“First, no Catholic may intentionally (formally) cooperate with the destruction of unborn human life. It is always and everywhere a grave evil to destroy these vulnerable human beings. For a Catholic to vote for a candidate precisely because that candidate is pro-abortion is to cooperate formally in the evil of abortion. No Catholic can do that in good conscience.
Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.” [CCC 2272]
Examples of formal cooperation:
* encouraging another person to get an abortion
* promoting, approving, or voting for laws that legalize or widen the legalization of direct abortion
* trying to convince others that abortion is moral
* trying to convince others that cases of direct abortion are really indirect and morally permissible
A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
Your Biblical examples from Leviticus and Exodus are obviously from the Old Testament. Catholicism and indeed all the rest of Christianity are based on the New Testament. You said, “Maybe we should follow the Bible and start stoning people to death again for things like adultery?
Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery who was going to be stoned by the mob. You know, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
Your issue that somehow a Catholic politician should ignore his principles or he is the same as a Muslim politician insisting on Sharia Law is a false equivalency. Sharia Law upholds horrendous acts like honor killing and death to homosexuals.
Catholic teaching on abortion is consistent with natural law, the basis of our constitution. And while abortion is legal now, it wasn’t before 1973. There is no right to abortion in the constitution. The Roe v Wade decision was fabricated on an also non-existent right to privacy. The precepts of Sharia Law are not consistent with natural law.
You would have a point if Catholic lawmakers were expected to make laws that required everyone to go to Church on Sunday or abstain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent. Those are the kind of religious strictures placed on Catholics and no one expects civil law to uphold them. Abortion is so much of a worse offense that eating meat on Friday. Kaine, Biden and Pelosi know this and have abandoned their principles if indeed they ever had any.
Finally you said, “Intelligent people have a fundamental understand of faith that seems to allude you and others like you all too often, George. My faith is my faith. My beliefs are my beliefs. They are not yours, they are not Peter’s, they are not Kaine’s.
True, Kaine can believe whatever he needs to to stay in the good graces of the Democratic Party. He just can’t say he is also Catholic.
“Your Biblical examples from Leviticus and Exodus are obviously from the Old Testament. Catholicism and indeed all the rest of Christianity are based on the New Testament. “
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Ah… George goes for the classic but bogus dodge one in his position must resort to rather than answer honestly or factually.
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No, it’s not. It was formed because of things in the New Testament, but it is still based on things from both.
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Exodus is the second book of the Old Testament.
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That’s your Ten Commandments. Guess we’ll throw those out now.
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And, say, aren’t you and the others always crying on about how you shall not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination? Hmmm… Well, the Religious Right needs to retire it’s anti-gay bûllšhìŧ now. Old Testament.
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As a matter of fact, a lot of what the Religious Right spews is Old Testament stuff. Maybe they just don’t know what they’re talking about. Hëll, maybe you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Probably some from column ‘A’ and a lot from column “B’.
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Look, we know you like to hypocritically pick and choose what you feel counts and what doesn’t, but don’t think that means others don’t notice.
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And you can burble on all you want, but the fact is we aren’t a Sharia Law type of culture, even if it’s a Christian based Sharia Law.
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Kaine is a Catholic. Kaine understands that he has to live his personal life by the dictates of the Church.
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Kaine is not a fundamentalist wacko. He understands that the role of high office is one of public servant, not religious dictator.
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Too bad the fundamentalist wackos in the general population can’t work that out.
Jerry you conflate me with right wing fundamentalists.That’s not me, although you need me to be one so you can more easily negate my points.
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You said that my dismissing the quotes for the Old Testament was a dodge. That I was choosing “some from column ‘A’ and a lot from column “B’. Yes, that is exactly right. That is what Jesus did. He and his disciples did not adhere to the strict dietary laws of the Old Testament. He “worked” on the Sabbath. He forgave the woman caught in adultery and stopped her from being killed. All of these things put him in the crosshairs of the High Priests.
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Here is a list of things where Jesus disregarded the Old Testament strictures
http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_OldTestamentLaw.htm
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And I notice you completely ignored the part of my post that detailed the Catholic dogma concerning abortion. These are the Catholic laws Kaine and other Catholic Democrats are in violation of. And that is why they cannot rightly call themselves Catholic.
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Again:
Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.” [CCC 2272]
Examples of formal cooperation:
* encouraging another person to get an abortion
* promoting, approving, or voting for laws that legalize or widen the legalization of direct abortion
* trying to convince others that abortion is moral
* trying to convince others that cases of direct abortion are really indirect and morally permissible.
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Seems pretty straight forward.
You’ve done a good job roofing yourself just such an example before.
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I ignored your bit about 2272 because most of what you wrote is not in 2272.
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“2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.”
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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm
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Your chosen bit – promoting, approving, or voting for laws that legalize or widen the legalization of direct abortion -isn’t in there anywhere.
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Plus, you know, the whole 1992 thing. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a new text, written by man. It’s one of many reasons there’s a rift in the church and not all Catholics recognize the Vatican’s word as strongly as they once did.
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There are multiple branches of every subset of Christianity. Some are more áššhølìšh than others. There are certainly enough Christians who will say that Catholics aren’t real Christians (among other disparaging remarks) and blame them for ruining the church.
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Just because they’re áššhølëš doesn’t mean Catholics aren’t Christians. Just because people like you are áššhølëš doesn’t mean Kaine isn’t catholic.
“Your chosen bit – promoting, approving, or voting for laws that legalize or widen the legalization of direct abortion -isn’t in there anywhere.”
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The web page that paragraph came from included that as part of its content even though it is not part of CCC 2272. Apologies.
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However is, “Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.” which you quote, not saying the same thing? Promoting, approving, or voting for laws that legalize or widen the legalization of direct abortion is certainly “formal cooperation”.
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Maybe Canon Law is a better persuader.
http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article78.htm
“Those Catholics who promote abortion are automatically excommunicated for two reasons. First, they have fallen into the sin of heresy by believing that abortion is not always gravely immoral (canons 751 and 1364). Second, these Catholics are providing substantial assistance for women to obtain abortions by influencing public policy to make abortions legal, and to keep abortions legal, and to broaden access to abortion. Those who provide such substantial assistance commit a mortal sin and incur a sentence of automatic excommunication (canon 1398).”
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It’s one of many reasons there’s a rift in the church and not all Catholics recognize the Vatican’s word as strongly as they once did.
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Recognizing the Vatican’s authority is a requirement for Catholics. This from my hometown diocese, St. Louis. In 1947, seven years before the Supreme Court ruling, Brown vs. The Board of Eduction in 1954, Cardinal Ritter, in St. Louis, desegregated the Catholic schools. This action was met with resistance but Ritter stood firm. Below is an article from Time magazine. September 27, 1947.
“In St. Louis Jim Crow walks on one leg: Negroes ride the streetcars and buses with the white folks; a portrait of Dred Scott has a prominent place among the historical monuments in the Jefferson Memorial. But in St. Louis, as in all Missouri, public schools are Jim Crow schools. So, in practice, have been the Roman Catholic parochial schools. There was no actual color line, but it was always well understood by Catholic Negroes that their children were to go to the overcrowded all-Negro schools in the crowded Negro districts.
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Last week St. Louis’ Archbishop Joseph Elmer Ritter ripped down this racial bar. He announced that Negro children could attend any diocesan school within their parishes. More than 700 white Catholic parents banded together to protest the seating of Negroes next to their children. They knocked at the Archbishop’s door; he would not see them. They threatened court action; they would hire a lawyer and ask for an injunction against the Archbishop.
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This week the protesters got a shock. Archbishop Ritter, a mild but positive man, gave them a warning in a pastoral letter, read at all Masses throughout his archdiocese. If they carried through their threat of action against the Church, he said, they would be open to the gravest penalty the Church can exercise—excommunication. “Obedience to ecclesiastical authority, said his letter, was a cardinal principle of their faith. So, he reminded them, was “the equality of every soul before Almighty God.”
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That night the protesting group met again, decided to take no action that would jeopardize their church standing.”
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This debate must be tiresome for those reading this who are not Catholic and don’t care about abortion or what the Catholic Church teaches, but when Peter said, “God dámņņìŧ. Pence takes a softball question about faith and turns it into an attack on Clinton about abortion. What a freaking áššhølë.” I couldn’t refrain from pointing out his erroneous wishful thinking that faith and abortion are not linked.
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Finally, if you think there there exists some loophole in Catholic dogma that excuses abortion, you are simply wrong, as is Kaine, Kerry, Pelosi and Biden.
You can’t really say that Trump’s grandfather “immigrated” to the US – he was deported from his native Germany for spending the years he would have been required to do his mandatory national service in the US and Canada, and then coming back to Germany after he figured he was safe.
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“You like the US so well, ja? Go back.”
That was ugly and brutal. The VP debate was 90 minutes of people’s lives they’ll never get back again. It was probably also the closest thing to a draw debate that I’ve seen in a Presidential race.
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Still, being realistic, no one is going to call it a draw.
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Pence lost points by being evasive on more questions and not actually answering those he wasn’t totally evasive on. He gained points by coming across calm. He may lose points with Trump supporters though. Not so much for being calm, but in what he was doing while being calm. That wasn’t working for the Trump ticket, that was auditioning for his shot at the brass ring in 2020.
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Kaine got points for being more factual (although he did blow some facts) during the evening, and for answering (barely) more actual questions. He also set up Pence for being ad fodder for the next week or two by getting Pence to claim that he and Trump never said things they both said. He lost a huge amount of points on demeanor though. He came across as having big stage jitters- he talked too fast at points, he interrupted too often, and he occasionally got too loud.
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Pence lost points as he frequently gave disjointed answers where he started on one point and made jarring, unnatural transitions to change the subject to his prepared, scripted points (when he wasn’t trying to make fun of Kaine for using prepared, scripted points.)
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Kaine lost points for not knowing when to let go of talking points. We get the tax thing, Tim, stop beating it to death. Not every answer had to loop back to Trump’s taxes and/or his failure to pay them.
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If this was a five round MMA fight it would be deemed a four finger stinker (a boring, bad fight) that went to a close split decision- 47-48, 48-47, 48-47.
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Not sure what the national polling will say in four days, but likely it will be Pence as winner. Kaine may have had more substantive points, but he stomped all over his own delivery. He spent the majority of the debate being Trump from the first debate minus the lying every other word. He came off bad. Even when Pence refused to defend his own ticket’s by pretending it was no big deal, Kaine’s bullishness came across as overbearing.
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I really hated Trump doing it. It didn’t look any better here.
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Plus, Pence had an advantage. Again, that didn’t look like a VP working for his ticket. That looked like a politician laying the groundwork for his run at the brass ring in 5 years. It was an interesting gambit, but one that may suggest that Pence- unlike Kaine -may feel that his ticket at this point does not have a real shot at winning in November.
I’ll give the moderator credit, she TRIED to make this about substantive issues.
Kaine was so eager to make everything about Trump that many questions were essentially ignored. A rebuttal to a rebuttal was allowed by her on some attack one way or another, and she allowed it with the reminder, “The question WAS about North Korea”.
A question about criminal justice reform was the most blatantly ignored question, one that really deserved attention. But neither candidate bothered.
She may have just as well have been relaying plays from the baseball playoff game, and the debate would have gone the same.
Putin is determined to reignite the Cold War and the news the last two weeks seems to bear that out. But we know him, we understand his ambition.
North Korea scares the šhìŧ out of me and both candidates avoiding the question means neither side has any clue what to do about the most dangerous, unpredictable leader on Earth.
That’s of deep concern.
No, it means they were too dámņëd busy acting like children.
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We likely already have 20 plans in place for dealing with NK. It’s not like they’re a new kid on the block. I just doubt anyone wants to talk about at least 18 of them.
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Maybe we could drop copies of Pulgasari on them.
Today’s Mike Luckovich cartoon:
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PENCE: Trump never said that
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MODERATOR: I haven’t asked a question yet.
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Today’s John Deering cartoon:
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User comment:
I saw the Mike Luckovich one one Facebook the other day. Thought it was hilarious.
Although you linked both to the Mike Luckovich cartoon.
Really? Arrgh.
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Back in a sec.
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“It’s full of Trump!”
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THERE ya go.