Freak Out Friday – November 17, 2017

A slightly quieter week since Trump just returned from Asia. But there are still some things that need to be addressed.

But I’ll tell you right now, I’m not going to make a big deal about him drinking water. Yes, I know he went after Marco Rubio for that and now it’s ironic, and so on. I don’t care. He’s an old man, he was back from a long trip, they handed him some Fuji water and he drank it badly. So freaking what. Let’s try to stick to a higher plane of discourse here.

1). Seriously? TRUMP is going to attack Al Franken? So Al Franken was revealed to have done something stupid seven years ago, before he was a Senator. Apparently he forcibly kissed a female radio broadcaster before a sketch during a USO tour, and he had a picture taken of him fondling her breasts while she was asleep. He has profusely apologized for it, which we all know in this day and age makes no difference. Once upon a time, an apology was the end of a discussion. Now it’s just the opening salvo of a determined process that will not stop until the person who committed a wrong doing is driven from his job into hiding. Franken is aware of that and has already HIMSELF called for a hearing before the Senate ethics committee. But that wasn’t enough for Trump, who declared that the picture looked really bad and implied that there were many more photos where Franken groped her all over.

Yet oddly I have seen NO Trump Twitter comments about Roy Moore who, in his early thirties, attempted to or actually did commit statutory rape with a number of girls ranging in age from 14 to 16. For that matter, sixteen women have come forward with their own stories about Trump’s groping, fondling and assaults, which he himself BOASTED ABOUT. Harvey Weinstein was fired from his position in the company that he created, but Trump continues to cruise along, criticizing people he dislikes for far milder crimes while ignoring those in his own party who were banned from malls because of their sick behavior. Meanwhile Jeff Sessions starts insisting they should investigate the Clintons, probably at Trump’s request. David Gerrold posted a great joke: “How many Republicans does it take to change a light bulb?” “Benghazi!”

Meanwhile it’s been revealed that in Congress itself, if a female aide is groped or molested, there is a byzantine process in which any woman who wants to complain has to go through therapy and counseling for months BEFORE she can proceed with her complaint. And if the process isn’t completed within 180 days, she can’t file it. Yet THEY then get to sit in judgment on Franken for something he did before he was a Senator? Fine. Then if they’re going to be consistent, if/when Roy Moore is elected, his very FIRST stop should be going before that very same Senate ethics committee.

2). The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.. Donald Trump Jr’s emails prove beyond any doubt that during the campaign, he was allied with Wikileaks to hack Clinton’s emails and release them in order to make her look bad. There’s a technical word for this behavior: illegal. It violated campaign finance rules which prohibit foreign spending and involvement in an election. Trump Jr. specifically supported and endorsed their activities. Meanwhile evidence is mounting that, despite Trump Sr’s assertions that he didn’t know George Papadopolous, George in fact briefed him and Jeff Sessions in person about Clinton’s emails and Russia’s cooperation. Sessions, to his credit, said it was a bad idea and they shouldn’t get involved. To his lack of credit, he later lied about it to Congress.

3). Basketball players get bounced. I was going to include this in the “did he do anything right?” section, since Trump managed to get China to back off from jailing three idiot college basketball players who were caught red handed shoplifting. But I can’t because he immediately screwed it up by asking if the students were going to thank him. Yes, that’s right: he asked to be thanked. NO ONE ASKS to be thanked. The whole purpose of saying “thank you” is that it’s unprompted and thus genuine. By demanding to be thanked, you’re behaving like the kindergarten teacher who insists that little Tommy apologize to little Jimmy for slapping him during recess, and the response you get will not be especially sincere. That is how fragile Trump’s ego is. That is how much he needs to thrust himself into the spotlight and receive praise. If he HAD to insist on thank yous, what he SHOULD have done was say that they should remember to thank the Chinese president who agreed to spring them. Which he eventually did AFTER they had thanked Trump, because to this idiot, that’s all that’s important.

4). Trump’s tax bill.. In addition to Trump endorsing a tax bill that will screw over middle income families while aiding the rich (and falsely claiming the exact opposite on Twitter) it should be also noted that hidden in the bill is a stipulation that will defund Planned Parenthood. Despite the fact that no government dollars go to pay for abortions, Trump’s people want to try to undo Roe vs. Wade in any manner that they can, and they figure shutting down Planned Parenthood will go a long way toward accomplishing that. So if the tax bill passes and you’re a poor to middle income woman who wants to get an abortion, you may not be able to afford it or there may simply be nowhere near you where you can have the procedure done. Which would mean a return to the old days where back alley abortions hold sway and women are either messed up or dead as a result. Which is fine with Trump because he still wants a return to the good old days. You know. When women shut their mouths about abuse.

How the hëll does this nimrod still have anyone who supports him?

PAD

38 comments on “Freak Out Friday – November 17, 2017

  1. I could more easily learn to understand an entire alien culture without so much as a English to Klingon dictionary than I could EVER comprehend the thinking of a Trump supporter. They claim up and down that he’s doing great things… and then spout the easily disproven lies that, at this point, they HAVE to know are bûllšhìŧ.

    It just hurts my head trying to figure them out at all, which is hard for me to admit as an aspiring writer. The best I can come up with is that they’re insane. All of them. And they enjoy making other people go nuts.

    1. It’s actually not that hard to fathom, because it comes down to two interlinking issues – Motivated reasoning and Fake news.

      If every little dissenting news article, video, paper or media channel is being dismissed as fake, and the only news sources being trusted by a significant portion of the population are, in fact, Rebublican and Alt-Right propaganists, it’s not going to be particularly surprising that said section of the population are being fooled into thinking Trump is going a good job.

      However, it still should be obvious to a sizavble number of them that they are being lied to, right? They can’t ALL be that stupid, can they? Well this is where the motivated reasoning comes in. These people desperately WANT to believe it. So much so that they are willing to overlook the mounting evidence that contradicts their worldview in favour of jumping on all the little (some not so little, admittedly) slip ups and scandals surrounding the Left-leaning policitians and media figures.

      I’m saying that, IMO, Trump supporters are essentially the same as flat-earthers. They believe what they want and no amount of evidence is going to dissuade them. Coz we made it all up, see?

      1. Kinda.
        .
        I think many Trump supporters aren’t as stupid and deluded as that. I’ve read reports that many of them are fully aware that Trump is doing a bad job. They just don’t care and still support him. Why?
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        Basically for the same reasons they voted for Trump in the first place, I think.
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        Because they think the “other side” hates them, despises them as racists and fanatics, and isn’t remotely interested in their grievances.
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        Because, while many accept that Trump is incompetent, he at least thinks and acts like them.
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        And because they are deeply resentful of progressives and they feel pleasure in Trump “sticking it” to them, even if the whole country is going to hëll. Because, they think the whole country and their way of life is going to hëll anyway, they might as well see their opponents suffering too.

      2. Trump uses the time-honored principles of propaganda which were known before Goebbles, but codified by him, and are still in use today in Russia, Communist China, North Korea, the Phillipines, and other dictatorships; by Republican supporters of tax burden shifting and Christian Statists / Dominionists in the U. S.; fascist political parties in Britain; in the marches in Charlottesville; in general product advertising; and in Ceremonial Magick.
        .
        One of them is “What I tell you three times is true,” also phrased as Invoke often.
        .
        Constant repetition makes a difference. As the late Robert Anton Wilson put it, if you hear the slogan “Budweiser is the King of Beers often enough, it will start to taste a bit better to you.”
        .
        Ayn Rand and P. E. I(saac) Bonewits wrote about this in a couple of their books, too.
        .
        In the same way, if you deny and demean the opposition often enough and strongly enough, it will simply be less believed regardless of facts. “Brand X.” “Fake news.” “Libtard.” “Enemy of the People.”
        “Enemy of the State.” “Public Enemy Number One.” “Counter-revolutionary.” “Socialist.” “Democrat Party”, instead of its proper name, Democratic Party. “Self-hating Jew.” “Feminazi.” “Benghazi.”
        .
        Constant repetition does make a difference.
        .
        (That’s also why the same ten-second ad is run twice in twenty seconds on t.v. when advertising all the 800-number trash, and why the announcer always says the number twice or more.)

    2. I think it all boils down to one thing: our political system is binary, so if they don’t support Trump then them have to support… her. Or at least the Dems in general. Devil vs. the Deep Blue Sea, or at least the devil you know vs. the one you don’t.

      General audience Republicans have a very hard time conceiving of things like a third party or opting out, so they continue to support what they’ve got.

  2. Also, you missed him allowing trophies from elephant hunts. Because fûçk endangered species, he wants his boy to bring home goodies and symbolically desecrate the Republicans even more to show them who’s boss.

  3. Mr, David
    I have one minor point of disagreement with you on this. A kindergarten teacher giving direction to unruly children is not a good analogy for Trump insisting that he be thanked for his efforts on behalf and some college students is. I think a more apt comparison is of a Medieval lord insisting on the proper amount of “courtesies” (scraping and bowing) being paid to a man of his position by the lower orders. Remember: we’re talking about someone who’s never met a strongman dictator that he didn’t like.

  4. Some additional info:
     
    1. Re: Al Franken, you stated:

    So Al Franken was revealed to have done something stupid seven years ago, before he was a Senator. Apparently he forcibly kissed a female radio broadcaster before a sketch during a USO tour, and he had a picture taken of him fondling her breasts while she was asleep.

    Not quite true. The photo shows no such thing. Look at it carefully: you can clearly see the shadows of his fingers (especially on his left hand), including the fingertips, showing that his hands were not actually touching the flak jacket over her chest. He was making motions like he was going to fondle her breasts, but the photo does not show him actually doing so.
     
    3. On the basketball players thing, in Trump’s defense, I do know of someone else who, while not exactly asking to be thanked, did remark on the ingratitude of most of a group of people he’d helped, only one of whom returned to thank him, namely, Yehoshuah Nazorean, better known as “Jesus” (a name he never heard in his life) who encountered and healed ten lepers, one of whom was a Samaritan who was the only one to return and glorify God and thank Yehoshuah. Luke 17:11–19.
     
    4. It’s worse even than that. The tax bill has also snuck in language effectively granting Personhood status to fetuses (for tax purposes in this bill, but it does put that language is in the law). This of course basically makes every woman who miscarries subject to homicide investigations, among many other things. The “Christian” (actually Dispensationalist which is not Christian by definition) “Pro-Life” movement has been trying this tactic for quite some time, at the state level, and has usually failed. This also demonstrates that they don’t even understand the Bible they claim to believe in, since the Mosaic Law (which many of them want the USA to be governed by) doesn’t acknowledge Personhood until age one month after birth!

    1. “The tax bill has also snuck in language effectively granting Personhood status to fetuses (for tax purposes in this bill, …” I’d love to see someone ask one of these dimwits just how they plan to tax a foetus’ income. 😎

    2. “Do you know why I pulled you over, ma’am?”
      “No, officer, I don’t.”
      “You were driving in the carpool lane by yourself.”
      “I’m not by myself. I’m 1 month pregnant, and legally, my fetus is a person…”

  5. How does Trump keep his followers? They’re blind, deaf, and dumb. They’re at Trumpy’s Holiday Camp, and instead of pinball, they’re unwillingly playing Russian roulette.

    Tommy had NOTHING on this charlatan.

  6. “How the hëll does this nimrod still have anyone who supports him?” Actually, that’s the easy part. Remember that half the population is below average in intelligence and that ‘average’ is none too high to begin with. Throw in the mess that is much of the North American educational system, plus the concentration of media ownership and, well, not really surprising to see the results it gets us.

  7. “How the hëll does this nimrod still have anyone who supports him?”
    .
    Precisely because he will punish women who want an abortion. That is the end, not the means.

    1. Thinking on it more:
      .
      “Precisely because he will punish.” FULL STOP.
      .
      There are a lot of people out there who are not as happy as they think they should be. And they see a lot of people who are happier than they think they should be. So as long as you promise to punish those people who are ungratefully happy, it takes a bit of the sting off of one’s own completely undeserved unhappiness.

  8. Honestly, I can’t blame the Republicans too much for their hypocrisy regarding Franken and the false equivalence they’re creating between him and Roy Moore, because it was us Liberals that have muddied the waters and allowed the GOP to do this.
    .
    It’s the feminists on our side that are making no distinction between guys accused of rape, guys accused of making lewd comments, guys accused of forcibly kissing one adult women, guys accused of forcing themselves on a half-dozen teen girls, guys accused of looking the other way, etc.
    .
    According to them, they all deserve to lose their jobs, their power, and have all their past accomplishments forgotten. There is no concept of “let the punishment fit the crime.”
    .
    I feel a bit like Charles Dickens when he talked about the French Revolution in A Tale of Two Cities. I feel immense sympathy for the commoners, and I have immense disdain for the aristocracy, and I understand how the aristocracy itself planted the seeds of their undoing, but I still can’t bring myself to agree with the violence and terror of the Revolution.
    .
    Likewise, I agree that the real problem is that we have laws that are too lenient to sexual harassers and a social environment that is too biased towards males, so yeah, I can fully understand why plenty of women have raised to say “no more”, but still it’s really bad that a guy like Dustin Hoffman (alleged to have said lewd things and acted like a tool) is put on a spreadsheet together with Harvey Weinstein (alleged to have forced women to give him oral sex and to physically chase and assault women).

    1. I may be the unpopular one around here on this point, but . . . .
      .
      Part of the problem of pervasive sexual assault by authority figures in our society is the normalization of it, often through humor, often through entertainment, to the point that we justify certain behaviors while condemning others. When, in fact, there SHOULD BE a zero tolerance policy against sexual harassment and sexual assault, of any kind, in positions of authority. At the VERY LEAST, zero tolerance in thought and word and sentiment, if not in action taken.
      .
      The big issue with Franken is that he’s on BOTH sides of this: he was an entertainer, the actions he took were while he was an entertainer, he’s SPECIFICALLY said he did it to be funny (i.e. normalizing), and NOW he’s in a position of power. And people in power should (MUST, really) be held to a higher standard.
      .
      Now, SOLELY verbal harassment, lewd comments and gestures with no contact . . . that’s a sticky gray area and depends on a lot of factors. What is the power differential, how severe was the threat . . . these are levels and lines that I would leave it up to smarter people than I to define. Should someone like Hoffman be lumped in with Weinstein? Probably not? But it’s more dependent on the actual level of threat/trauma the women perceived/sustained, and not on my opinion of it. To whit, “The Abortion Line:” Her body, her choice. I don’t get to make the decision on how it affects her, she does.
      Not my call either way, no matter how I feel about it. So, if a woman feels she was messed up about something someone said or did? Not my place to question it, only my place to decide how I’m going to view the accused based on the available facts, how I judge his response, atonement (or lack thereof) and actions from here on out.
      .
      Franken, however, WAS physical. And, even at the time, was in a position of authority over his accuser. And for the photo in particular, SHE WAS UNCONSCIOUS. That is MUCH more clear cut. And while it is not EQUAL to what Moore did, it is nevertheless DEFINITIVELY unacceptable on its own merits. Period. What’s more, Franken has ADMITTED AND ACKNOWLEDGED it as such. And as a man in a position of power, he SHOULD be held more accountable than others. And people SHOULD be saying that. Loudly.
      .
      The problem here is the double standard: if it was a GOP Senator, with the exact same circumstances and evidence, we wouldn’t be having a “Franken vs Moore” debate, we’d be calling on them BOTH to leave. I’d lay my paycheck on that.
      .
      Point: the VERY DAY that the Roy Moore allegations came to light, several GOP Congressmen, including the Senate Majority Leader and turtle-human hybrid Mitch McConnell himself, condemned the man and called for him to leave the race.
      .
      By contrast, Al Franken, who has been in the news cycle for a little under a week? None. NOT ONE. No Democratic Congressman in EITHER house has even publicly suggested that he step down.
      .
      Was it as severe as the Moore allegations? No. Has Franken apologized and admitted where Moore did not? Yes. Has Franken’s accuser accepted said apology? Sure did. And of course, Franken himself is inviting an ethics probe. Great. It’s still sexual assault. And yet . . . not a single Federal Democrat has even hinted that his job should be on the line. With photographic evidence, and an ADMISSION THAT WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG. No one in his party in Congress has said the words. In five days. So far, the only vocal voices have been a pair of state Dems in Minnesota.
      .
      There is FAR less physical evidence against Roy Moore (almost entirely alleged, at this point), and I firmly believe HE should be permanently barred from politics. And even as much as I identify as a left-centrist and admire Al Franken as an intelligent and competent Senator . . . the man should be held to a higher standard, he should probably step down. Or not seek reelection next cycle. Or, at the least, VERY LEAST, someone should SAY IT. Even if he ignores them completely and stays in the Senate, ONE CONGRESSIONAL DEM should say “Hey, dude, resign maybe?”
      .
      But they won’t. Maybe the GOP won’t actually DO anything to stop the Trumps and Moores. But a few of them AT LEAST publicly denounced them. NOT ONE Dem.
      .
      And if we look at that and try to say it’s not a double standard, and that it doesn’t speak VOLUMES (ESPECIALLY from the party that claims to support gender equality and feminism), perhaps we need to step back and question whether we’re attacking Roy Moore and Trump because they are sexual predators, or because we just don’t like their politics. And I’m not going to pretend they’re not horrible people, both of them, on their politics and ideals alone, but . . . if not a SINGLE ONE of Franken’s peers is going to even ask for his resignation, let’s not pretend we’re outraged at Trump and Moore over the assault stuff.
      .
      And IF that’s the case . . . why AREN’T you more opposed to the assault issue, across the board? Just curious.
      .
      And if you’re having trouble answering THAT, while you figure it out . . . please don’t come anywhere near my sleeping mother/sister/daughter/spouse/complete stranger woman I don’t know, does it matter who she is? I am recording this.

      1. I am so very, very tired of people trying to conjoin Franken and Moore. It is “whataboutism” taken to its insane conclusion.
        .
        I have no idea why no Dems are demanding Franken step down. Maybe it’s because they are satisfied with the very things that leave such a void for you. Once upon a time, him profoundly apologizing and the woman accepting it would have been sufficient. Ultimately, especially since he had no political office at the time of the offense, that should be the end of it. But no. There are people demanding justice because, as I’ve said before, we live in an age where apologies are not enough. They aren’t the end of a situation; they are merely the opening salvo of a relentless demand for payback that ultimately results in the accused being stripped of everything they had in life, regardless of the level of severity of the offense.
        .
        No, this is not about politics, and this is how I know: because if it was Moore who had forcibly kissed a grown woman once and mimed fondling her breasts many decades ago, apologized and been forgiven for it, and Franken had pursued, groped and sexually assaulted a variety of underage girls, and continued to deny it, my position would be the exact opposite. I’d feel that Moore should be excused and that Franken should be in jail. It is NOT a double standard. It is judging each situation and distinguishing between, as Bill Maher put it, one guy briefly acting like a dìçk and one guy BEING a dìçk. And for you to accuse anyone of having the common good sense to distinguish between one brief instance of oafish behavior versus a serial underage sex abuser and, oh yes, a third guy who regularly assaulted women, boasted about it on microphone, and then accused all of dozen or more accusers of lying about the things he himself boasted about, is simply manufacturing a comparison that does not remotely hold up.

        The fact is that Franken, since being elected, has been an exemplary force in government. Meanwhile Moore is a gun toting homophobe. Those may well factor into it as well, but all it proves is that Franken should not be held responsible for one instance of oafish behavior over a decade ago while Moore could do untold damage in the Senate and oh, by the way, he’s very likely a criminal. He shouldn’t be sent to the Senate; he should be arrested. Unfortunately that can’t happen because it was so long ago. And if the Senate ethics committee wants someone to fry, let them go after Franken, Moore and Trump. I think we all know how that’s going to pan out.

        Should Franken be held to a higher standard? Yes. And if you can produce proof of anything he did WHILE A SENATOR that violates that standard, by all means, bring it on.

        Meanwhile, yes, there are GOPers who are denouncing Trump. But they’ll support him. That’s the insane thing about the GOP. They denounce someone but still stick up for them. Or resign. That’s VERY helpful. Even Moore: the freaking governor of Alabama believes all the women who accused him, but will still vote for him because they hate Democrats that much. It’s insane. If Kim Jong-un migrated to America and ran for Senate as a GOP, they’d vote for him. Because they have lost all sense of reason. When the push for Richard Nixon to resign happened, it was from both sides of the aisle. IF it happened now, the right would be denouncing it as fake news and fighting to keep him there. That’s how far we’ve slid, and these false comparisons between Franken and Moore are not helping.

        PAD

      2. Jay –
        .
        I agree with you that there should be no tolerance of sexual harassment and sexual assault, but there must still be a sense of proportion and distinction between the various modes of assault.
        .
        I’m a little wary of the notion that the victim’s perception or susceptibility should be a huge factor in these situations. This is one huge disagreement that I have with modern-day intersectional identity politics (see also the whole discussion about “racism is whenever I feel offended by something, regardless of the intent of the person making the supposedly racist statement” because it’s obvious that various persons have different thresholds).
        .
        On the one hand, it’s obvious that the victims’ perceptions should matter, because that is at the center of sexual harassament and assault. The same actions would be considered flirting, playfullness, romance, and enjoyable sex if there were consent, so yeah, what the victim is thinking at the time is utterly important.
        .
        On the other hand, if we take the woman’s perception as the sole means of measuring the situation, then suppose we have an extremely vulnerable woman that goes into a panic attack because someone at the street gives her a wolf whistle, and suppose that we have one extremely resillient woman that is beaten and suffers sexual assault with vaginal penetration, but she manages to shrug it off. Are we supposed to consider the wolf whistle the bigger crime, because the victim was traumatized more?
        .
        Yes, I know I chose a deliberate extreme case here, and yes, I know that “what would a neutral third party observer think of the situation” is something feminists are very skeptical of, because we have tons of (white and male and not so neutral) judges that were very lenient to golden boy athletes that touched unconscious women, but we still need at least to attempt to make some distinctions between the various actions here.
        .
        As for the political angle, I think PAD said it all.

      3. Ok, couple things here:
        .
        First of all, the complaint of conjoining and “whataboutism” are inaccurate and unfair. In fact, I specifically said the two men, and their behavior, are both ENTIRELY unequal – “Was it as severe as the Moore allegations? No. Has Franken apologized and admitted where Moore did not? Yes. Has Franken’s accuser accepted said apology? Sure did. And of course, Franken himself is inviting an ethics probe.” – and I thought I made clear (though reading back, I suppose it wasn’t entirely, and that’s on me) that they should be judged on their own merits. That was the point of me bringing up the whole “if it was reversed” point.
        .
        And please note, for the record, if I am incorrect, and if you personally, Mr. David, genuinely WOULD be accepting of a GOP candidate’s involvement and apology in a mirror situation, in spite of hating everything about his politics, if you would genuinely say “ok, he groped a woman, but he actually apologized and invited an investigation, and she accepted, and I’m ok with that, he doesn’t have to step down” . . . then I will take you at your word. If, shoe on the other foot, you’d be as forgiving of a Republican as you are of Franken, then I applaud the impartiality. I do not believe most others share that neutrality.
        .
        In any case, this has nothing to do with “whataboutism,” this has to do COMPLETELY with judging individually. And impartially, across the board, on a case by case basis, right-wing (most of whose politics I despise) or left (with whom I primarily identify) notwithstanding, I have a hard line. And that line, I will TOTALLY admit, is absolutely a lower tolerance bar than that of apparently everyone else.
        .
        Why is this? Because every woman . . . EVERY ONE I’ve ever dated seriously or loved, has a story about how they were sexually assaulted. To different degrees, at different time periods, in different amounts, and with different impacts . . . but still, EVERY LAST ONE. Be it a year of infrequent molestation at the hands of a brother’s friend as a child that has left her overly aloof about sex and men in general, or a 15 year abusive marriage that has somehow left her still impossibly strong and optimistic, or simply being groped by random men on a regular basis at a waitressing job because “that’s just what guys do,” or a woman who wasn’t even directly abused herself but was so horrified to find irrefutable proof that her ex-husband was a deviant and abuser of others that she could no longer trust ANY men, or a single attempted rape that left her in such a lasting depression that even though I was the most loving and caring and understanding relationship she’d ever been in and she claimed she was the happiest she’d ever been she couldn’t beat the demons and ultimately ended her own life . . . .
        .
        EVERY. SINGLE. WOMAN. That I have ever loved. Has been damaged by our society, and our hidden and pervasive and normalized culture of over-sexualization and tolerance of sexual harassment and assault.
        .
        No, I’m not comparing Roy Moore to Al Franken. I’m saying even what little Franken did is still TOO MUCH AND NOT OKAY. On its own merits. Judged in a vacuum. Not acceptable behavior, current or historically, for a US Senator. Period.
        .
        I don’t think he should be a pariah. I don’t think he should never work at any job ever again. I think people SHOULD accept his apology. I think it was genuinely sincere. And like you, I think he is (for the most part) a force of good and has been an otherwise fine example of a politician.
        .
        And I think it’s not good enough. If you crossed that line – and moreover, acknowledge and admit you did – you shouldn’t be in a position of power. I don’t think he should be unemployed, I just think he shouldn’t be employed as a Senator. Yes, my bar is that high, my tolerance is that low, and I have a PHENOMENAL dissatisfaction with MOST politicians as a result, because I know dámņ well almost NONE of them likely reach that bar.
        .
        Ok, pretty sure Obama did. @#$%, I miss that guy . . . .
        .
        I will never, for a moment, disagree that Moore’s allegations, if true – and I believe they are – are way worse. Yes, HE should be in jail. Trump should be in jail. None of them should have ever been anywhere NEAR public office, or a position of ANY kind of authority (such as, say, headliner of a reality TV show or real estate magnate or BEAUTY PAGEANT MANAGER, are you @#$%ing kidding me?!?, etc). I think they are monsters. I think Franken made a mistake. And I think the price of that mistake should be dropping from public office. Go into activism, go back to comedy, go do whatever. He’s not Harvey Weinstein, he’s not Bill Cosby, he’s not Louis CK. There’s plenty of other stuff to do, and he can still do good with his rep and influence. But he does not, and should not, represent the people of the US.
        .
        And putting aside that the GOP AS A WHOLE is going to DO nothing (and you’re absolutely right, some will denounce, and the rest will ignore and rally, you’ll get NO argument from me, and it’s sickening . . . I even MADE this argument to my friends who tried to justify why the GOP are better than the DNC BECAUSE they called out Trump and Moore instantly while the Dems have not . . . and that’s utter bull$#!+ on every level, no question, NEITHER party gets to claim ANY moral superiority on this), I also find it EXCEEDINGLY questionable that not a single . . . ZERO, out of, what, 250, NOT A SINGLE ONE . . . no Congressional Democrat has made a similar gesture.
        .
        No, I don’t actually EXPECT Franken to resign, or his party to force him to do so. I fully expect the party, as a whole, to do the same thing as the GOP, and rally around their guy (and again, will stress this, I think Franken is generally a GOOD GUY, and is more deserving of loyalty than Moore and Trump, by LEAGUES, even if I still don’t think he should continue to be a Senator) and protect the party. But sometimes, even the gesture, even someone in that high capacity speaking out and saying, “No, really, he SHOULD quit,” even if it amounts to NO ACTION AT ALL . . . sometimes just that gesture is the inciting incident, the tipping point between despair and hope, for future women to see that someone at least called for a strong response, and made them think “hey, I can admit what happened, I can tell people, people WILL understand, and some level of justice IS possible!”
        .
        As to pointing out anything he did while in office, while a sitting Congressman? Well, today’s headlines. Think this’ll be the last one?
        .
        I don’t think he’s a criminal. I don’t think he’s a creeper. I’m not justifying ANYTHING about Moore or Trump, or the appalling, draconian Congressional rules about reporting sexual misconduct, or the rest of our government’s lousy track record on the matter. And I’m not comparing him to any of the above, or any of the recent celebrity sex scandals.
        .
        I’m saying he’s below my bar of “acceptable to hold Congressional office.”
        .
        Then again, most of them are.

      4. To Renee:
        .
        As my previous post (which landed just after yours, it seems) noted, I actually DATED one of those extreme examples (the woman severely abused over a decade and a half, who yet remains INCREDIBLY resilient), so it’s not as outlandish as you might think.
        .
        Please note, I was specifically referring to the “victim impact” issue as it uniquely relates to verbal, non-contact abuse. Because I know full well it’s a gray area and I don’t know the answer.
        .
        A woman who shrugs it off versus a woman who is fragile? I don’t know. I am not in a position to judge that. You’re completely right, it’s complex.
        .
        The thing is, someone below directly cited Bill Maher saying “one cannot be more offended than the victim.” That’s basically EXACTLY what I’m saying, with regards to verbal harassment. We have to let them set the standard.
        .
        Now, physical harassment (especially against someone unconscious, can’t stress THAT part enough) . . . I think Maher is off the mark. Sorry. Victim accepting an apology or not, we can DEFINITELY take more offense. Because that kind of behavior is insidious, and (as my previous post noted), HORRIFICALLY pervasive and universal. Even if I don’t know where the line is on verbal harassment, there has to be a hard line SOMEWHERE, and an EASY line to draw is “contact.” As the paraphrased old line goes, “Freedom of speech ends at my body.”
        .
        As for the politics . . . again, see my previous.

      5. Jay –
        .
        Yeah, apparently, Franken groped a woman when he was already a Senator. While still not as bad as Roy Moore (and really, who is as bad as Roy Moore?), it seems like there is a pattern of disrespect to women going on with Franken.
        .
        It’s sad to hear it, about the women in your life, I mean. The last couple of weeks have been a wake-up call to many men (myself included) about how pervasive sexual harassment and abuse are.
        .
        My wife told me that the worst experiences she had wih men were with a guy that turned nasty (in a verbal way) when she rejected him when she was a teenager. And the occasional co-worker that tried to flirt with every women he worked with (and was reviled by all of them), and so I assumed that this was the worse most women faced. I am not so sure right now.

      6. @Renee:

        My God, right?!

        When my first true love told me what had happened, showed me the scarring on her pelvis, it was the most tragic thing I’d ever heard. (She was the suicide . . . it nearly killed me too, but that’s a topic for another day)
        .
        When my second love (years later, mourned for a LONG time) told me her story, I was upset and angry, and also a little surprised at the coincidence. What’re the odds, both my girlfriends. Do I have a type? Am I picking injured women?
        .
        By the fourth, I was incredulously asking myself, “Geez, are these ladies telling the truth? I mean, EVERY woman can’t be a victim, can they? Naaaahhh!” (Note, the second cheated, the third ran off on me with her abusive ex, and my fourth ghosted me, so I my trust in women was a little shaken).
        .
        By my sixth (the strong 15-year survivor), I just hated my gender entirely.
        .
        Having this very discussion today with my OWN MOTHER (and she’s on Franken’s side too), she suddenly admitted “You know, I was assaulted when I was 13.”
        .
        Seriously. EVERY SINGLE WOMAN.
        .
        I lost that illusion of “this is the limit that most have to deal with” a while ago. And at this point, I’m seriously wondering if the Franken stuff is the LEAST most women have been through.
        .
        That’s why my tolerance level is so low.
        It just needs to stop.

  9. it should be also noted that hidden in the bill is a stipulation that will defund Planned Parenthood. Despite the fact that no government dollars go to pay for abortions

    You smoke cigarettes but your mother wishes you wouldn’t. For your birthday she gives you 20 dollars but makes you promise that you won’t use the money to buy cigarettes. Naturally you agree not to use that 20 dollars for cigarettes. But now you have 20 extra dollars to put toward food which frees up 20 dollars for cigarettes.

    The pretense that Planned Parenthood doesn’t use government money to pay for abortions is an obvious lie yet abortion proponents continue to repeat it as if they don’t understand the definition of fungible.

    1. By that standard, the millions the government spends on a new aircraft carrier actually help support abortions.
      .
      It’s the same nonsense “logic” Hobby Lobby invokes to try to explain why they should be able to tell you what you can and can’t spend your paycheck on.

    2. Hello, George.
      .
      It’s been a long time.
      .
      As a rare Pro-Life Liberal I’d be okay with the state defunding Planned Parenthood, but with one very important condition:
      .
      Every single dollar removed from this purpose would have to be invested in a social welfare program for poor young mothers.
      .
      I’m so sick of Pro-Life Conservatives shrinking the State, promoting ultra-deregulated free market, and then forcing the poor to bear the burden of rising kids in the dog-eat-dog world created by their policies.

      1. Hi Rene,

        I agree with your suggestion.
        .
        In fact, the half a billion dollars PP gets from the federal government every year would be better used by the more available, health care clinics.
        .
        There are 665 Planned Parenthood locations. There are 13,540 comprehensive health care clinics, 20 for every 1 PP. The claim that PP provides health care that would otherwise be unavailable is fiction.
        .
        http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/17/planned-parenthood-loses-government-funding-heres-map-health-clinics-take-place/
        .
        Check out the map at that link.
        .
        By PP’s own annual report, they have 1.8 billions dollars in assets and 1.3 billion dollars in profits. They shouldn’t be getting money from the government.

    3. By that standard, the millions the government spends on a new aircraft carrier actually help support abortions.
      .
      I really don’t see how the aircraft carrier money translates into supporting abortions but regardless, the Hyde Amendment prohibits federal money from being used for abortions since 1977. Money from the defense budget would not be accessible to Planned Parenthood. That is why PP makes the ludicrous claim that the money they get from the government doesn’t fund the primary objective of their business.
      .
      Employees of Hobby Lobby can spend their pay any way they like. Hobby Lobby only objected to providing abortifacients, as part of their health care insurance. Their plan does provide contraception as listed here: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/397355

  10. What Bill Maher said (on the Franken) issue, for me, makes sense: one cannot be more offended than the victim. And the victim accepted his apology.

  11. …And now Trump’s openly regretting helping those three basketball players because the father of one downplayed his role in an interview.

    What. The. Hëll…

  12. A serious matter, but not one I’m seeing as being likely of a solution any time soon. But what can you expect when the core of the matter is often subjective?
    .
    Two co-workers. One ‘drank in’ stares, practically handing out engraved invitations to look at her. Turned out she’d been a professional model earlier in life (we didn’t find out until after she’d retired, mind you) and still loved being the center of attention. Another co-worker would verbally tear into someone she felt had allowed a glance to linger just a trifle too long.
    .
    So? Do we ignore examples of the former, lest they turn out like the latter? Joyful life. May as well join a monastery.
    .
    Yes, there’s a difference between an honest mistake and repeated, boorish behaviour. But when the ‘other side’ can’t even agree on what’s permissible, what’s a guy to do? Ask someone for permission to give them a compliment? I did that once and she was puzzled, why should I feel the need to ask permission? Pointed out there were those who would take offense. She thought about it then nodded, a sad expression crossing her features.
    .
    How often does one have to be told, by supposedly intelligent, well-educated women in professional jobs “you gave up too easily, sometimes ‘no’ means ‘try harder'” – which happened at least a couple of times to me – before one gives up, goes home, locks the door and takes the phone off the hook?
    .
    So, yes, a serious matter, but with almost as many points of view as there are people, good luck coming up with a one-size-fits-all solution.

    1. There are subjective elements to this discussion, sure. Particularly, the distinction between the monsters (Weinstein, Cosby, Moore), the áššhølëš (Hoffman, Franken), and the nutsos (Louis C.K.), with some people claiming that they’re all monsters.
      .
      But the core of the issue isn’t as subjective as all that. The problem with “what is a guy to do” interpretation of the issue is that it makes the mistake of considering that any of these highly powerful, influential, and narcissistic men have anything in common with ordinary fellas that are a bit clumsy and/or a bit clueless at flirting.
      .
      IMO, one does not “stumble” into being a serial harasser, as most of these guys are. Sure, they try to present it as a defense for their behaviour and as a way to gain the sympathy of ordinary men, but c’mon.
      .
      I don’t think any of them is being lambasted for staring too much at their co-workers. As for compliments, I bet 99% of the guys think a compliment is something like “you’re looking good today”. And not something like “you look so good that I want to attack you” or “I wish I could see if your pubic hair is as beautiful as the rest of you” or other “gems” that have been reported.
      .
      Not to mention that the huge majority of these guys are bosses, producers, directors, lead actors, editors, etc. A co-worker telling another co-worker that they’re looking good? It may or may not be appropriate. A boss telling their subordinate is almost never appropriate. Still, there is a huge difference between even a boss telling someone they look good and a boss telling them to strip naked because “you owe everything you achieved to me”.
      .
      I don’t see a lot of gray areas in what most of the accused have done (though I do disagree with some feminists about the varying levels of wrongness displayed), to me most of them have done stuff that any average person on the street would readly consider bad.
      .
      Most of them, that is. It’s been said that some of the people accused in that spreadsheet have done fairly minor things (like “enjoys awkward business lunches with subordinates”), but I don’t think there is been a call for those minor transgressors to lose their job…

      1. As I wrote: “Yes, there’s a difference between an honest mistake and repeated, boorish behaviour.” Of course what I said does not apply to those monsters, nor any who take advantage of their position of power over subordinates. What I’m getting at is there’s an undercurrent of ‘men bad, women good’ and that we live in a day when overreaction is the order of the day and I’m trying to insert a semblance of rationality to it all. Again, not where the Weinsteins of this world are concerned, but where oversensitive ‘victims’ take slight where there wasn’t any meant, thus fanning the flames. I’m exaggerating? Look up Wilfrid Laurier University/Jordan Peterson/Teaching Assistant. A frightening example of how we’ve gone from turning a blind eye on everything to turning a blind eye to the possibility that an accused might be innocent. Yeah, the Laurier thing is a different sort of ‘harrassment’, but the principle is still valid in that, trying to undo the sins of the past, we’re so keen on being seen to do the right thing that we risk trampling over innocent parties to do so.
        .
        Getting back to harassment, there was a famous case in Canada where a media personality was tried for various sex-related offenses, only to be released because the court simply couldn’t believe the complainants’ often confused or self-contradictory stories. Wanting to rush the case to trial, the prosecution hadn’t bothered to do their homework and even female lawyers stated after the fact that the guy probably wasn’t squeaky clean but, given the lack of credibility of the witnesses, it was the only legally sound verdict. All of which to say beware trial by media and that presumption of innocence exists for a reason. The moment we forget this and punish people (say by firing them – I’m OK with suspension pending outcome) before they’ve had their day in court, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Not the kind of society I’d care to live in as it too easy to abuse.

      2. Starwolf –
        .
        Yeah. I can see the potential for abuse. Let me say that there is a lot that I dislike and/or distrust about identity politics in the current environment too.
        .
        While I don’t think men are being considered all “bad” or women all “good”, there is certainly a current of “let’s make this guy represent the whole millennar institution of patriarchy” that I feel is a burden that no one individual should bear.
        .
        As I said above, I feel pretty torn. I’m excited that we may get a less sexist society out of this, because we really only have societal change when lots of people stand and say they won’t take it anymore. But I am also concerned, because intersectional lefism can look pretty totalitarian and authoritarian at times.

    2. “I once knew a woman” – and it is always a man saying this about a woman, isn’t it – “who liked to be stared at, so I should be allowed to stare at any woman I want to without repercussions” is not a a very sound philosophical argument. It is at best a rationalization to not have to pay attention to people’s reactions. At worst, an excuse to place your pleasure over everyone else’s.
      .
      But you are exactly right in saying there will never be a one-size-fits-all solution. Everyone only has their own personal experiences to go on, and mistakes will be made when different lives come into contact. But the point of living is to learn from those experiences, and try and do better next time. Yes, it can be difficult when the other person is not interested in allowing you to learn, but that is something they have to learn for themselves.

  13. …AAAAAAAAAAND he’s basically endorsed Roy Moore, because a pedophile is better than a democrat. Lovely. Way to be on the wrong side of history, Trump. First Nazis, now pedophiles.

    1. I think you forgot “Russian Dictators,” “Billionaire Robber Barons,” and possibly “White Domestic Terrorists” somewhere in the middle there.

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