As I foresaw, people tried to claim that the muddling of the oath meant that Obama wasn’t president. He actually went ahead and redid it in order to quiet them. And they promptly jumped on the fact that he didn’t swear a second time on a Bible.
And now some people are complaining about the following line in his speech: “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.”
According to the AOL news feed, that line is drawing fire from religious quarters: “(The President)
seems to be trying to redefine American culture, which is distinctively Christian,” said’ Bishop E.W. Jackson of the Exodus Faith Ministries in Chesapeake, Va. “The overwhelming majority of Americans identify as Christians, and what disturbs me is that he seems to be trying to redefine who we are.’”
So is he saying we’re NOT a nation of various religions? Would he prefer that Obama had said, “We are a nation of Christians and a handful of other people who are going to hëll when they die.”?
Personally I think the ones who should be complaining are the Wiccans for being left out.
PAD
• 
I’d like it if Obama would tell them that they can all go F themselves, but that’ll never happen. 😀
Also chiming in is the Zionist Organization of America which bìŧçhëd about the part of Obama’s speech where he described the United States as a “nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus – and non-believers.”
What is the reason President Obama chose this sequence when listing these four religions?
Throughout its history, the United States has always been known as a nation based on Judeo-Christian values and heritage.
Moreover, surveys show that there are some 5 – 7 million Jews living in the United States. Most surveys show that there are 1.8 – 2.8 million Muslims living in the United States.
In contrast, in President George W. Bush’s Inauguration Speech on January 20, 2001, he said the following, “Church and charity, synagogue and mosque, lend our communities their humanity, and they will have an honored place in our plans and laws.”
I suspect we’re paying way more attention to these kooks than Obama is. At least I hope so.
I love that he actually remembered us atheists. We vote for stuff too, y’know.
I think these people should all borrow a page from the excluded Buddhists and set themselves on fire…
The Wiccans weren’t entirely left out… somewhere (the, er, poem, maybe?) there was mention of different creeds that we live by, and “First, do no harm” was in there.
Fervent agreement on your Wiccan point, Peter.
Some people are afraid of what will happen when we live in a country without those self-imposed borders and definitions to separate us. Perish the thought we simply define ourselves as “Americans.”
I actually twigged onto the “nonbelievers” part- nonbelievers? As in “People who don’t believe in anything?” Could sound negative- why not “free-thinkers”? Like Peter said, anything can be dissected to uncover potentially offending stuff. Ah well.
There is a portion of Christians out there (I really hope it isn’t a majority) that isn’t happy with anything short of total domination of Christianity over every aspect of society. A President even acknowledging other religions and viewpoints is already seen as a threat.
And on top of not using a Bible; he kept the press out so that no one could photograph him while he was crossing his fingers during the oath. But that’s really not important. Everyone who’s “in the know” knows full well that this “flubbed” oath and the redo where just distractions designed to keep the attention off of the fact that Obama was getting his loyal operatives to forge an “authentic” birth certificate and get it to Hawaii before the next lawsuit appeal.
Oh, and you know that he’s pushing secret legislation through the pipeline right now that will ban semiautomatic handguns nationwide and allow the ATF to enter into people’s homes to take the ones they already own. Yeah, you can’t find it on the official government websites because they’re trying to keep it hidden, but you can see what they want to do with that bill if you go to the pro-gun rights blogs.
And let us not forget the fact that he’s secretly plotting to turn America into a Muslim country and merge us with South America. That’s part of the reason that he’s taking steps to take over the banks and other financial institutions. They’ll be merged with South American companies to create the beginnings of the link up and they’ll use that financial power in North America in the mean time yo subsidize Muslim religious organizations while cutting off, squeezing out and bankrupting Christian organizations.
And don’t forget the secret pact he has with the Slime People from the Crab Nebula to turn us all into Pod People. Once we’re all brainwashed and Earth is turned over to our new masters; Obama’s reward is ruling Earth for the next 5000 years.
The scary/sad thing here is that I’ve heard every one of those things (well, other than the Crab Nebula thing) said with 100% seriousness in the last week. And the people saying that stuff are all literate, collage educated professionals. I’m not the least bit shocked or surprised that some people are floating the relatively sane notion that he’s not the President because of a flubbed line or the absence of a Bible. My take on it would be to make fun of them or just ignore them. They’re kooks.
Peter David: Boy, some people will find ANYTHING to complain about with Obama.
Luigi Novi: Oh, and they will. Expect 4-8 years of it.
Not to mention Buddhists. He left them out, too.
it’s kinda funny, really.
I’m a “nonbeliver” in any deity or politician. and it’s things like this that re-affirm my non-belife.
Personally it’d be great if Obama did turn out to be the superhero politician who changes it all around – but frankly it’s this stuff that convinces me it’s never going to happen.
Just the way it all gets so mired in the whining about minutia. When it comes to politics and religion I take after the words of George Carlin from the preface of his book Brain Droppings
“I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I lothe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.”
Lest you wonder, I share these thoughts with you as idividuals, not a group.
Except for trolls.
stay groovy.
It’s kinda funny. As a Christian, it seems like this bishop that thinks we’re all of the same faith in America would go evangelize to some other poor country with opposing views.
Well, Obama’s a Muslim terrorist, so what did they expect?
(and yes, I’m joking, though it saddens me that there are people in this country who make this parenthetical explanation more necessary than it really should be)
I didn’t vote for Obama. I deeply regret that he won, worry that his agenda for this country will cause great harm, and — pending the unexpected — will not vote for him in 2012.
That being said, both these issues are pure chickenshit.
Obama and Roberts both screwed up the oath. It is highly arguable whether or not they needed to go back and fix it, but I thought they should just to shut up the nutjobs.
Obama’s line was inclusive, and recognized the reality: there are a lot of Americans who are unbelievers (I myself am a Born-Again Agnostic-American). I kinda liked that line.
There are plenty of things to criticize Obama about already (not the least of which is that moron he put in as his vice-president). This stuff is just crap, crap that distracts from the real issues he should be criticized over.
J.
You know what, though? I just hope that President Obama subscribes to the “let the extremists say whatever they want; they’ll nitpick anything and I’ll just do my JOB and ignore them” way of thinking.
Gee, so now the tables have turned. People are allowed to complain about Obama just like you and everyone did with Bush. Most of the time people complained to complain about Bush also. Obama is being treated like some freaking Messiah but everyone and finally people see he is fallible and not the reincarnation of god. Regardless of their gripe.
I said it when he was elected: the only way for America to fall out of love with Obama was to make him President. I just underestimated how quickly it would begin to happen.
Kat, I doubt these people were ever in “love” with Obama. The people making these complaints were never even in “reasonable level of disgust” with him.
Give it time. Individuals are loyal; people are fickle and quick to turn.
I know a guy who was at the inauguration, and when Obama said that, someone near him in the crowd yelled out “And Buddhists!” It goes to show you will never please them all, even those who have strive to purge all desire.
(and I just scrolled up and saw KRAD’s comment, so maybe it was Keith in the crowd. 😉 )
Nirvana is the Sanskrit word for nothing. Therefore, it may very well be fair to refer to a faithful Buddhist as a non-believer.
“Obama is being treated like some freaking Messiah…”
(**Yawn**)… Messiah… Not the reincarnation of god… Gee, Gram, that’s the best you’ve got? What, you haven’t gotten past page one of the talking points yet? I mean, the whole ‘Messiah’ thing was getting stale back when the whole ‘B. Hussein Obama’ thing going from stale to laughable.
Look, it’s not Obama’s fault that people were so desperate to see Bush go away that he would make any replacement automatically look 10X better to most Americans than they might actually be just based on the fact that they’re not Bush.
Luigi Novi: Oh, and they will. Expect 4-8 years of it.
Luigi, you’re an optomist.
My fellow Americans, I’m making an announcement. As of now I’m back in the 2016 race. Sure, I have no political experience and don’t plan on getting any between now and then. I’m still smarter and have more common sense than George W. Bush.
Even if my own party doesn’t back me, my planned ‘Hamlet Marriage Law’– to ban all marriage and so that it is fair to everyone stays on the platform. My idea that you can own a gun but owning bullets would be illegal would remain on the platform. Spending more of the military’s time and effort on things like disaster relief to prevent another incident like New Orleans and things like Operation: Toys for Tots to give all children a little something for the holidays is still on my platform.
Oh– and if by some fluke I win, Richard Dawkins will give the invocation, Neil Gaiman will be poetic laurete and I will sign an executive order banning the sale of Crunch Berries within the U.S. borders. That stuff is nasty.
May your Imaginairy Friend in the sky not crap on America’s lawn. Thank you.
No Bible? No problem! The Constitution is pretty clear about there being NO RELIGIOUS TEST required for being elected to or holding office.
Personally, I’d prefer he put his hand on a copy of the Constitution itself, and simply affirm. That’d be good enough for me.
Oh. I took “non-believers” to mean those of us of non-Judeo-Christian religions as a whole.
I remember the quote about “do no harm”, and thought it a very covert victory for a remarkably touchy subject in the 21st century. We believe in going to Mars, Area 51, nuclear weapons, and that Ed McMahon will bring us a check any day now, but we’re still terrified of witches? Sheesh.
As for a socialist nation…
FDR, the leader in the last Great Depression/Panic/Recession, however you care to term it, instituted more Socialist programs than any other President in history. Depending on your side of the Spectrum, he was either a saint or the Devil himself. Yet, as I look around, I see very few of his programs still in existence (Social Security being one of the touchiest). No one in the 30’s, homeless, jobless, and penniless, gave a crap about socialism, they just wanted to get back to living.
I sent my 18-yr old son to apply for a job at a new store opening up. 125 people were needed; five thousand applied for a minimum-wage job with no benefits. The chance of a teen getting a job right now that pays more than $40 a week are about zero. My neighbors are 3 months behind on their mortgage, because both lost their jobs. A friend and her husband both work at the same company; if the company doesn’t get a big contract soon, they’re up the creek. Times *are* getting that tough again. All we need is a major mid-west drought. This country hasn’t hit bottom yet.
I will reserve my worries about a socialist nation until Obama leaves office, or the economy recovers. At best, “Socialist” measures usually last only the length of the President’s term (SSI being the monster exception). Even Krushchev repealed many things done by Stalin, because he knew he was a wacko. Anyone who’s lived with Social Security, unemployment checks, or Welfare, has lived with American Socialism, and few people want to give those up. Being watchful and aware is one thing; panicking at a word is something else.
I’m Jewish. So this Bishop is complaining because Obama is inclusive of me, a natural born American citizen (while still being inclusive of the Bishop). That’s…. great. These people are so disgusting. Please let them stay out of power.
Hello Peter, Not suprising that we’ll have to disagree here. It is my undertsanding that for the vast majority of America’s history the worldview of most Americans has been shaped by the Judeo-Christian world view, which among the many benefits of living under, allows people of different faiths to co-exist, believing that “All men are Created equal…”. One can live in a “christian” or “Jewish” nation and not participate in either religion and still receive the benefits of citizenship and practice whatever you want. This principle is not afforded in the Muslim countries or in traditonal atheistic countries. I’m sure you have heard how minority faiths are treated in Muslim countries or how communist countries oppress the freedom of religion. Yet, in Isreal and America you can be an atheist or a muslim, or whatever, and you can live in relative safety. I’m sure you know all this.
My observation of Obama is that he pays lip service to christianity, but he is consistently non-christian in the policy choices he makes. So, no worries for you there. As the United States has become a post modern relativist nation we have elected a president who represents that change in the national charcter.
Jess, I was with you right up until the Cruncberries ban. That stuff is awesome and I just can’t support someone that can’t acknowledge that,I’m sorry. I guess I will have to vote for Captain Crunch in 2012, at least he has some military experience…
Actually, what upsets me most is that since he got elected, I keep receiving emails from people that have the most racist comments I’ve ever heard coming from people I thought knew better. Hëll, my roommate alone was having fits when he found out I was voting for Obama. There’s no real POLITICAL problem they have with him, just disguised racism and that upsets me because In thought they were more intelligent than that.
Nice false equivocation, Rudy, with that ole humdinger of a strawman argument… These “communist/Muslim/(insert evil system or religion here) countries don’t allow you to do (a) or (b), but we do.” That’s relevant how? How should the system of any other country be relevant to the conversation about our own separation of Church and State? By talking about the religious freedoms allowed under these “Muslim countries” (none of which you name) you’re trying to set up a compromise in which we should be satisfied at only being a little more advanced than them instead of a lot more advanced. Fail.
“Peter David: Boy, some people will find ANYTHING to complain about with Obama.
Luigi Novi: Oh, and they will. Expect 4-8 years of it.”
So, basically, business as ussual?
“most Americans has been shaped by the Judeo-Christian world view”
There’s no such thing as Judeo-Christian. It’s just a bûllšhìŧ term people came up with.
It is true that Christianity is part of the hegemonic culture in the US as it is the religion of the majority.
“which among the many benefits of living under, allows people of different faiths to co-exist,”
What enables people of different faiths to co-exist in the US or Israel is democracy and pluralistic culture, not Christianity or Judaism.
It could be argued, maybe, that the fact that Judaism does not expect others to join it, means that Jews in Israel had less of an expectation that Arabs merge with an the Jewish culture of the majority, the way countries with Christian-Western culture expected minorities to merge with the majority culture. So in a way, to a limited extend it could be said that their is multi-culturalism built into Judaism. But today multi-culturalism exists in Christian countries too. People don’t expect native-American, for example, to become Christians. And in any case, tolerance in Israel, as a culture, varies, like in most Western countries.
“This principle is not afforded in the Muslim countries”
Muslim countries have their own principles of co-existence. They are not, in my opinion, as good as the one’s in democratic countries, to say the least, but they exist. Muslim countries have non-muslim minorities. The condition of non-muslims in muslim countries is reflective of the lack of democracy and the lack of tolerance in these countries than the lack of ‘judeo-christian’ culture.
“traditonal atheistic countries”
That’s a contradiction in terms. Totalitarian countries that were founded on ideologies that included hostiility to religion have exhibited hostility toward religion institution and people. However you here less of that today, even in marxist countries.
“My observation of Obama is that he pays lip service to christianity,”
If I understand the American system, I don’t think Obama should pay any service to Christianity. He’s the president not the pope.
“As the United States has become a post modern relativist nation we have elected a president who represents that change in the national charcter.”
I see no indication of Obama being a relativist, to the best of my limited knowledge of your country.
Wow. All the good atheist stuff has been taken already.
I’ll just say that, as a proud member of one of the most reviled minorities in America, it was nice to hear the Chief Executive mention me and mine in a positive light.
Wow. All the good atheist stuff has been taken already.
I’ll just say that, as a proud member of one of the most reviled minorities in America, it was nice to hear the Chief Executive mention me and mine in a positive light.
This is a sad and hypocritical thing to complain about, especially on a thing like diversity. To me it all seems kinda like Animal Farm where its okay to be diverse….sometimes, unless diversity encroaches onto your territory and then its bad. It is also funny that some of these comments come from places like “Exodus Faith Ministries” because it’s splinter Christian groups like them that try to re-define things because they believe themselves to be more “correct” than church X. For example, you have Baptists, Primitive Baptists, and Progressive Primitive Baptists and they are essentially the same with some modifications, but I don’t think you’d get them to agree on that. So to give a shoutout to other belief systems is just a continuation of the ever growing diversity that is America and shouldn’t be squashed.
Rudy: Hello Peter, Not suprising that we’ll have to disagree here. It is my undertsanding that for the vast majority of America’s history the worldview of most Americans has been shaped by the Judeo-Christian world view…
Luigi Novi: And how does this constitute a “disagreement” with what Peter said? Peter pointed out that we’re a nation of various religions. How is this untrue? How is it mutually exclusive from your observation that America’s history was shaped (in part) by the Judeo-Christian worldview? The fact that it was shaped thus means that we are not a nation of many religions today? How so?
And why is it that whenever religious apologists talk about what “shaped” our nation or what it was “founded” on, they always omit all the other things that went into shaping our country that have nothing to do with religion, like ancient Greek ideas about democracy, Native American ideas about egalitarianism, Enlightenment ideas about freedom, etc.?
Rudy: One can live in a “christian” or “Jewish” nation and not participate in either religion and still receive the benefits of citizenship and practice whatever you want. This principle is not afforded in the Muslim countries or in traditonal atheistic countries.
Luigi Novi: I’m not sure what a “traditional atheistic” country is, but theism is largely declining in Europe in favor of atheism, and religious freedom is not suffering there. In countries like Denmark, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Sweeden, etc., the atheist population is equal to or larger than the the population that believes in the Judeo-Christian god. And if you include those who do not believe in the J-C god, but in “some kind of spirit or life force”, then they outnumber Judeo-Christians even more, and include more countries, like the Netherlands, Norway, Germany, etc. To my knowledge, religious freedom is not suffering in those countries.
I remember the quote about “do no harm”, and thought it a very covert victory for a remarkably touchy subject in the 21st century. We believe in going to Mars, Area 51, nuclear weapons, and that Ed McMahon will bring us a check any day now, but we’re still terrified of witches? Sheesh.
Is “do no harm” explicitly a wiccan phrase? I thought it was commonly ascribed to the Hippocratic oath (although the exact phrasing can differ depending on the version). “First, do no harm” is how I’ve heard it phrased.
So this Bishop is complaining because Obama is inclusive of me, a natural born American citizen (while still being inclusive of the Bishop). That’s…. great. These people are so disgusting. Please let them stay out of power.
I don’t know if you should be so quick to assume that the Bishop is one of those mean old Republican oput of power. At least some of the religious leaders who have been bìŧçhìņg about the “non-believers” line are black ministers who supported Obama. (I don’t know if that would include Bishop Jackson though, since he has been pretty voal in the past against Obama on various other issues).
PAD, you’ve barely scratched the surface. During new White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs’ first briefing on Thursday, NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Chuck Todd grilled Gibbs about the oath of office re-do. Todd asked why the press wasn’t there to record it, whether Obama’s executive orders prior to re-taking the oath were legally valid, etc., etc., etc. The next day on The Diane Rehm Show, a roundtable of journalistas began questioning whether Obama was living up to his pledge of transparency in government.
Also on Friday, CNN ran a story reporting that leaders of prominent feminist organizations were already disappointed that Obama hadn’t done more for women. One feminist leader declared that Obama wasn’t taking women seriously.
I don’t know how anyone can watch this coverage and come away thinking that there’s such a thing as the “liberal MSM.” Look how much negative coverage Obama has received after just four days in office.
Gram: “Gee, so now the tables have turned. People are allowed to complain about Obama just like you and everyone did with Bush. Most of the time people complained to complain about Bush also.”
Gram, you’re comparing apples and oranges. Obama has only been in office four five days as I write this. No one is saying Obama is above criticism, but it seems a little crazy to be tearing him apart for failing to change the universe before he’s finished his first week in office.
Gram: “Obama is being treated like some freaking Messiah but everyone and finally people see he is fallible and not the reincarnation of god.”
Treated like a “freaking messiah” by whom? And when? Obama had a tough road to the White House; he won a narrow victory against Hillary Rodham Clinton during the democratic primary and there were times when it appeared McCain had a shot at winning the general election. Obama is now being criticized by many of his core supporters, including feminist and homosexual rights groups. Democrats in both houses of Congress have been giving him flak. How is that tantamount to treating Obama like a “messiah?”
Is “do no harm” explicitly a wiccan phrase? I thought it was commonly ascribed to the Hippocratic oath (although the exact phrasing can differ depending on the version). “First, do no harm” is how I’ve heard it phrased.
It’s commonly ascribed to the Hippocratic Oath, but wrongly. It’s not in the oath. It’s a medical aphorism.
PAD
Some of this stuff is ridiculous (like the complaints over redoing the oath without a bible), but some of the complaints are necessary and right.
Chuck Todd’s questions on the stuff that happened before retaking the oath are reasonable follow ups. If the oath needed to be redone, then it’s reasonable to ask if other things need to be redone. Just asking the question isn’t an accusation of wrong doing, and sometimes asking annoying and seemingly obvious questions leads to interesting details.
Demanding more access to White House stuff is also reasonable. Chuck Todd thinks that certain things that have been open to the press before are less open now. It’s natural for a President from any party to want to control the press and it’s natural for the press to push back. That push back from the press has to start from day 1, it’s the only way to do it.
There’s always going to be cooks, but so far I think thinks are going pretty much the way they should be.
I believe the Wiccan thing is “An it harm no one, do what thou wilt.” Although I could be confusing that with the Church of Satan. (Almost wrote “Church of Stan” there. Now *there’s* a religion I could get behind.)
Yeah, he forgot all about us Wiccans! Boo!
…
Although the “do no harm” bit did make me feel a little better
…
Well, the Wiccan Rede is “An’ harm ye none, do what ye will”, but there are variations
…
w00t Church of Stan! LoLx
Jason M. Bryant, I’d agree with you if Chuck Todd’s questions took place in a vacuum. They didn’t. It’s not the mere fact that Obama has received scrutiny and criticism, it’s the amount and intensity that I find out-of-whack given that Obama is just five days into his first term in office. You can’t judge whether Obama is living up to his pledge of transparency, his pledge to address women’s issues, in just five days time. Yet people are doing just that. It’s ridiculous.
What is the reason President Obama chose this sequence when listing these four religions?
Honestly? Probably the cadence.
I know, I know — that’s applying rational thought…
Is “do no harm” explicitly a wiccan phrase?
As others have mentioned, that exact phrase isn’t, but “An it harm none, do as ye will” is certainly along the same philosophy.
As for the rest of it, I already said my piece about the “and nonbelievers” comment back in the inauguration thread, so I won’t rehash it here. I’m pleased, and I’ll leave it at that!
Off to grade exams…
TWL
Sure they can hold him to that in the first few days, Bill. The press has the job of holding him to his promises every single day. The first day they let something slide, they give a President permission to do more.
Chuck Todd’s argument is that they only let four reporters in for an event that they’d usually let everyone in on. Is he wrong? If he’s wrong, then it’s an unfair criticism. If he’s not wrong, then he has every right to say it. Whether or not he has a valid issue is the only thing that determines whether he should write the story.
If you want to disagree with Chuck Todd about the validity of his complaint, that’s fine.