Inauguration day:

And so…it begins.

11:23: With wind chill, it’s 14 degrees. This is ridiculous. Enough with tradition. Move elections to March and have the inauguration to May. Everyone has to be freezing their áššëš off because 200 years ago George Washington didn’t feel the cold?

11:26: Shots of the outgoing First family, walking away while trucks load up their stuff. May I say on behalf of everyone: Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Rest of comments below the cut line.

11:28: Well, at least people aren’t booing Laura Bush or Lynn Cheney.

11:31: Michelle looks a bit underdressed for 14 degrees. I hope she doesn’t regret not wearing a heavier coat.

11:32: They’re running 16 minutes late, according to NBC. So since Bush’s term expires at noon, that could mean that for 16 minutes, from 12 to 12:16…what? Nancy Pelosi is in charge?

11:35: “Hail to the chief, he’s the one we all say hail to.”

11:36: Has Ðìçk Cheney ever looked more like an evil mastermind than when he’s being pushed in a wheelchair? He just needs to be stroking a white cat.

11:37: Kathleen says that if people are booing, he can be told that they’re actually just cheering, “Boooosh!”

11:41: Want to have an idea what the crowd looked like the last night of “The Adventurers Club?” Check out the crowd on TV. I don’t envy them.

11:39: I like the thumbs up from Biden. Maybe we can call him “Joe the Thumber.”

11:41: I like all the introductions. I keep waiting for him to say stuff like, “…and the Rockettes. The Muppets. The Nelson Riddle Orchestra.”

11:43: Barack H. Obama. I was wondering how they were going to finesse that.

11:46: I wonder how many people are actually there on the National Mall. Anyone have a count?

11:48: Oh definitely let us pray.

11:49: Separation of church and state. Don’t make me laugh.

11:53: The song’s name is “America.” Sheesh. Love the hat, though. Only Aretha could make that hat work. Well, her and Eddie Izzard.

11:56: Freedom’s ringing. Could somebody answer it, please? I’m watching this thing.

11:57: It’d be interesting if, out of reflex, the supreme court tried to put Bush in just out of habit.

11:58: So he used Biden’s middle name. Let’s see if he says “Barack Hussein Obama.”

11:59: It’d be cool if he kicked Cheney out of the wheelchair.

12:00: The Freedom Clock just started counting upwards. I wasn’t expecting that for some reason.

12:01: Of course Yo Yo Ma is playing. He played on “The West Wing.”

12:05: He said his middle name. Good.

12:06: I think Obama got distracted by the ambulance for a moment.

12:07: Woo hoo! Party at the Obamas tonight!

12:07: They’re shooting! Quick! Get him–oh It was planned. Never mind.

12:07: I wonder if he’s got a teleprompter or if he’s memorized it.

12:08: We’re at war with FX?

12:10: “Sapping of confidence.” That’s as apt a description I’ve heard of the last eight years.

12:11: I’d love to see them cut to Bush when Obama is talking about how out of whack our priorities have been.

12:13: We have to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again? There’s a song lyric to live by, from the film “Swing Time.” Perhaps we should also consider making our national anthem a silly old ant because we have High Hopes.

12:16: The country cannot prosper long when it only favors the prosperous. Good line.

12:17: even better, the line about not tossing aside our morals as a country in the interests of safety. I was waiting for him to quote Ben Franklin.

12:19: Which is an eloquent way of saying, “Osama bin Laden, you can suck it.”

12:20: “Know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not on what you can destroy.” Well, they haven’t so far, but it would be a nice change of pace.

12:23: That’s the first TV angle I’ve seen where you can clearly see the bullet proof glass around him.

12:24: “The knowledge that God calls upon us to shape an uncertain destiny.” Nice.

12:24: “A man whose father, sixty years ago, might not have been served in local restaurants can now take this oath.” So true. And let us also remember that sixty years ago in many states his father would not have been allowed to marry his mother. Thank God such unreasoning restrictions against marriage don’t exist in…what? Two states? Three?

12:26: Good speech. Not too long. Hit some high points. Nothing that was “Ask not what your country can do for you,” but then JFK did set a pretty high bar.

12:33: This guy is…interesting.

12:35: I wonder if anyone on the dais–the politicians, poets, ministers, anyone–are tempted to say something to the effect of, “We live in dangerous, uncertain times, and it’s THAT GUY’S FAULT RIGHT THERE! BUSH! HE SCREWED IT UP!”

12:40: Play ball!

In the words of the greatest president ever: Okay, what’s next?

PAD

296 comments on “Inauguration day:

  1. May I say on behalf of everyone: Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    YOU DEFINITLY do not speak for everyone.

    Okay, then … 78% of everyone. I can live with that.

    I think the implication might be that some of us wouldn’t mind seeing that door hit him on his way out 😀

  2. I missed the Carter snub but here it is: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2009/01/carter-snubs-cl.html

    Me-ow. I knew there was some bad blood between the two (and in the photo from earlier this month when Bush, Obama and all the living ex-presidents got together it seemed as though Clinton was trying to get as far away from Carter as the Pauli exclusion principle would allow) but this seemed very harsh.

    No great fan of either guy but I think Carter made himself look very petty and small. This is a day for celebration

  3. [b]Who else besides me happy-cried a couple of times?[/b]

    My wife’s great-grandmother was born a slave. She herself was first called a “ņìggër” at the age of 3, in the great state of Missouri.

    She was in happy tears from about the beginning of the Oath of Office until shortly after the end of the inaugural speech.

  4. I enjoyed your blog about today’s activities in Washington. I watched your count-down clock to see what happens. I hoped for a jigsaw puzzle of Bush’s face crumbling I love your “Joe the Thumber” comment. I don’t think people had the energy to boo Bush. They were too busy going “Brr!”

  5. I enjoyed your blog about today’s activities in Washington. I watched your count-down clock to see what happens. I hoped for a jigsaw puzzle of Bush’s face crumbling I love your “Joe the Thumber” comment. I don’t think people had the energy to boo Bush. They were too busy going “Brr!”

  6. First B.O.B. (Barack Obama Boner)
    He couldn’t even get the swearing in right!!!!!
    What A frickin’ doofus!!!!!!
    Not even the President yet and he screwed up.

    Get your hand-baskets ready.
    We ARE going to hëll.

    Admit it. If Bush had done something that DUMB you would be all over him.

    All joking aside.
    Other than running for office, has he actually ever done anything to give us hope, or are we all suppose to ‘revel’ in his blackness?????

  7. First B.O.B. (Barack Obama Boner)
    He couldn’t even get the swearing in right!!!!!
    What A frickin’ doofus!!!!!!
    Not even the President yet and he screwed up.

    Get your hand-baskets ready.
    We ARE going to hëll.

    Admit it. If Bush had done something that DUMB you would be all over him.

    All joking aside.
    Other than running for office, has he actually ever done anything to give us hope, or are we all suppose to ‘revel’ in his blackness?????

  8. Actually, dave w, it was Chief Justice John Roberts who flubbed the oath as has been explained a thousand times. Either nerves got the best of him or it was payback for Obama not voting to confirm him years ago.

    But continue to revel in your sore loserdom on this historic day. We won’t stop you. 🙂

  9. The vice-president is sworn in first, so, for the few minutes beyond noon before Obama was sworn in, Biden was technically president.

    I’m glad we finally got to January 20th, because I was worried something would happen to Bush. And then, when Cheney had to take over as president, he’d declare a state of emergency that wouldn’t allow Obama to take over until an as-yet-undetermined-date.

  10. Does “Boosh!” mean you’re a fan of FRISKY DINGO? Now there was a presidential election: a monstrous supervillain running because he accidentally solved global warming (with the Annihilatrix) vs. a juvenile spoiled billionaire superhero.

    (Oh, and welcome aboard, President Obama.)

  11. For those who may perceive The Daily Show to be slanted towards the left, tonight’s episode is interesting: Stewart did a bit in which he pointed out how portions of Obama’s rhetoric are not that different from Bush’s.

  12. I thought Cheney was Davros is “Genesis of The Daleks”. I kept expecting to see a column of them rolling out behind him on the podium.

    EXTERMINATE!!! EXTERMINATE!!!!

  13. “The vice-president is sworn in first, so, for the few minutes beyond noon before Obama was sworn in, Biden was technically president.”

    Not true. As explained above, the President automatically takes over the office at noon. The swearing in is just a formality.

  14. dave w. said:

    “First B.O.B. (Barack Obama Boner)
    He couldn’t even get the swearing in right!!!!!
    What A frickin’ doofus!!!!!!
    Not even the President yet and he screwed up.”

    dave, if you would read the comments here before you post, you would already know 2 things.

    1–Obama was already President before the swearing in.

    2–Obama didn’t screw up, the Chief Justice did.

  15. One line from the President’s speech that I have yet to hear anything about: “…we will return science to its rightful place.”

    As a scientist, this means a great deal to me, and I see it as commentary about the Bush administrations incredible disregard for scientific research, and its practicioners.

    Hopefully our new president makes better informed choices about the environment, health and nutrition, and psychological well-being as a result of his faith in the scientific communicty.

  16. I was just wondering how many attendees Aretha Franklin ate before she got on stage? Anyone have an exact number?

  17. “Welcome to the first steps in becoming a Socialist nation”

    You say that as though it were a bad thing.

    The Reverend Mr.Black

  18. John Lyons: Welcome to the first steps in becoming a Socialist nation

    John, if you want to scare people, you’ll need a scarier image than Canada and Sweden.

  19. Um, why does the cover image of the Fallen Angel #33 seen at midtowncomics.com (the regular cover, not the incentive one) say, “Final Issue”?

  20. Man, I never witnessed such a laughable spectacle in my life… I’m not talking about the actual swearing in of President Obama, but the masses of Kool-Aid drinking worshippers and media droids who have elevated this man onto such a high pedestal. It’s not going to be pretty if Obama fails to live up to these lofty (and mostly likely unobtainable) expectations — it’s going to be such a hard fall for you Obama cultists (and yes, I think that is a fair description considering what’s been happening lately). That so-called euphoria you are experiencing now is going to evaporate pretty quickly and soon you’ll be back to your natural mode of self-loathing and hatred (but, hey, you’ll always have GW Bush to blame as a back up).

  21. Susan O: “Does Laura Bush own any other suit?”

    My, my, my… such a catty attack against the former First Lady’s attire. Typical Susan O. pettiness.

  22. Yeah, the suit comment wasn’t very nice.

    On the other hand Richard, you just called a couple million people “Kool-Aid drinking worshippers”, so you don’t exactly have a lot of standing as a level headed guy who only says reasonable things.

  23. “Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus … and nonbelievers.”

    To those of you who are rejoicing at this, I might remind you ALL that there are a LOT of “believers” who were EXCLUDED from that. Do groups such as Wiccans and Buddhists NOT count as “believers” or are they all “NON-believers”?
    Sorry, for having this reputation of being a great speaker, Obama futzes it up quite a bit for what he DOESN’T say.

  24. One line from the President’s speech that I have yet to hear anything about: “…we will return science to its rightful place.”

    Look up at the comments around, oh, 12:15 or so. 🙂 I may not have written much, but I definitely noticed the line.

    And JosephW, you’re right about what Obama left out there. In his defense, I can point out that there’s no way to explicitly mention ALL faiths like that without turning into Sinclair at the end of B5’s “Parliament of Dreams” … but he could have phrased it in a way that he didn’t have to do that. Very true.

    On the other hand, what he did say is a lot more inclusive than what his predecessors have said. It’s still a step forward.

    TWL

  25. Also, to those who are declaring the “national nightmare is over”, maybe for SOME OF YOU it is. There are some of us for whom the nightmare has simply morphed into a slightly different shape.
    It turns out that, according to HBO, it was the OBAMA transition team that requested Rev Robinson’s speech be omitted from Sunday’s little “concert”.
    Was Rev Rick “homophobe but Barack’s new BFF” Warren’s invocation covered? I haven’t heard anyone say that it wasn’t (I had more important things to do than watch the result of old-style Chicago politics steal the Presidency 8 years after the Supreme Court stole the Presidency and I regard Obama with the same contempt that I hold George W Bush–he’s every bit as illegitimate a President as Dubya was; also I would remind everyone that he’s only HALF-black, which seems to have been completely ignored in the grand scheme of this “historic” moment). I know the Obama people are saying that Robinson’s speech will be included in rebroadcasts but that’s a bit like watching a rerun of the Super Bowl. Who’s going to pay attention except the hopelessly addicted?
    I do NOT trust the man; I haven’t trusted him since he invited Donnie McClurkin to be part of his little “gospel tour” of the South in 2007, especially after he said he knew nothing of McClurkin’s views on homosexuality and that the only reason he’d invited McClurkin was McClurkin’s popularity with the Black Evangelical community, and that was merely the tip of the iceberg. Obama’s apparent turnaround on FISA was loathesome (his people swore that Obama would go so far as to filibuster then he went and basically gave Dubya what he wanted; either his people were speaking out of turn or Obama screwed them over). Obama’s vow to abide by the public financing laws until he was able to turn the internet into a cash cow (with a site which apparently didn’t make any effort to guarantee that donations were made in full compliance of federal campaign contribution laws, mainly with regard to the contributor’s legal residence). Obama’s speech in front of a Selma Alabama crowd that strongly implied that his parents met as part of the 1965 March (very amazing since he was born in 1961) and then there was his speech in which he claimed one of his grand-uncles helped liberate Auschwitz (who knew he had a grand-uncle who served in the Russian Army?). Then there was his 48-hour turn on the state of Jerusalem (first, he was for it being a permanent part of Israel, only to support a Palestinian claim to the city). Then, there was his “bitter” comments which weren’t supposed to have become public knowledge; maybe he should have spoken with Trent Lott about politicians who speak, presumably, at a “private” function. (Obama seemed more upset that the comments made it to the public than he was at making the comment in the first place.) DOYC, as I mentioned earlier, the tip of the iceberg. (Oh. I didn’t even bother to mention his need for vacations–plural–during the primary campaign and then the general election.)
    I’ve spent the past 8 years knowing that the POTUS was an incompetent hack so I guess the next 4 years won’t be any different (except superficially, unless mentioning Obama’s skin tone is racist; of course, HE was the one who noted that he doesn’t look like any of the guys on our currency).

  26. – I was just wondering how many attendees Aretha Franklin ate before she got on stage? Anyone have an exact number?

    It wasn’t her fault, she was under mind control by the bow on her hat.

  27. My, my, my… such a catty attack against the former First Lady’s attire. Typical Susan O. pettiness.

    ?And name calling isn’t?
    Call me petty if you want, in a world where the biggest tabloid headline of the last month has been worry about what Michelle Obama would wear. I live in sweats or jeans, so it makes no difference to me. I maintain my opinion that for the lofty pedestal people raise the first lady to – wings of museums dedicated to their clothing at your expense, Laura Bush always looks like she’s wearing the same suit, just a different color. Even Barbara Bush had more style – sometimes dowdy, but classy nonetheless. In a country where what the first lady wears can inspire entire lines of clothing that millions of people want to wear, creating increased jobs and sales revenue, Laura Bush has been distinctly … uninspiring.

  28. That’s hardly the only way in which Laura Bush has been uninspiring, Susan, but it’s a valid enough point.

    As for Aretha’s hat … I’ll say what I said about Guinan’s hat on TNG twenty years ago. Anyone open to the possibility of it being a TARDIS?

  29. “Do groups such as Wiccans and Buddhists NOT count as “believers” or are they all “NON-believers”?”

    That’s because Wiccan and Buddhist fundamentalists don’t have a very high profile.

    “I would remind everyone that he’s only HALF-black”

    So?

  30. 1Posted by JosephW at January 21, 2009 04:41 AM
    “Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus … and nonbelievers.”

    “To those of you who are rejoicing at this, I might remind you ALL that there are a LOT of “believers” who were EXCLUDED from that. Do groups such as Wiccans and Buddhists NOT count as “believers” or are they all “NON-believers”?
    Sorry, for having this reputation of being a great speaker, Obama futzes it up quite a bit for what he DOESN’T say.”

    Joseph, as a Wiccan, I am a “non believer” in comparison to Christians, Jews, Muslims and other monotheist groups. Further, since Obama didn’t have time to mention every belief system out there. Don’t misunderestimate his oratory ability.

    Posted by John Lyons at January 21, 2009 12:50 AM
    “Welcome to the first steps in becoming a Socialist nation”

    John, as a resident of a “Socialist” nation who spends a whole lot of time in the USA, I fail to see the problem. We can discuss the origins of the current global economic crisis, which industrialized nation has no national healthcare at the urging of insurance companies taking billions in taxpayer money, or which country I see time guaranties advertised by privitized corporate hospitals.

    Our system may not be perfect (wait times, higher taxes) but, having been offered jobs that would involve relocating to the US, I have said no thank you everytime. It’s a wonderful place to visit, but….

  31. “Move elections to March and have the inauguration to May”

    Just catch up with the modern world. Have the inagugration on the day after the first Tuesday in November. You don’t need to wait for men on horseback to bring the votes across the country any more.

  32. I have no problem with people being critical of President Obama (so awesome to type that). Unlike the neo-cons I think it’s the RIGHT of a citizen to criticize the President.

    But just looking for *any* excuse and foaming at the mouth and swearing up and down “I’m not racist!”

    Sorry, not buying it. I’m not happy with the Democrats and how they’ve fumbled the ball for the last few years, so I’m going into this with both eyes open. But quit raining on everyone else’s parade. Allow people a little giddyness right now, because we’re still in the middle of a national nightmare. One that was caused by both sides of the political aisle, but was helped along by the outgoing President and his boneheaded policies.

  33. Just catch up with the modern world. Have the inagugration on the day after the first Tuesday in November.

    Not always feasible. Remember 2000?

    Shortening the time is certainly reasonable, but there would have to be other reforms along with it.

  34. “11:23: With wind chill, it’s 14 degrees. This is ridiculous. Enough with tradition. Move elections to March and have the inauguration to May

    And if it had been this year we could have had all these extra months worth of Bush …”

    Hëll to the no!

    As someone living in the tropics, I can only pity that crowd. But I sincerely doubt few of the people there were actually freezing to the bone, given the massive turnout and heated emotions of that moment.

    Good luck America, here’s hoping Mr. Obama lives up to the greatness (and hope) heaped upon his all too human shoulders.

  35. Richard: Man, I never witnessed such a laughable spectacle in my life… I’m not talking about the actual swearing in of President Obama, but the masses of Kool-Aid drinking worshippers and media droids who have elevated this man onto such a high pedestal.
    Luigi Novi: Yeah, really. But at least he’s out of office now, and back in Texas clearing brush or whatever.

  36. My, my, my… such a catty attack against the former First Lady’s attire. Typical Susan O. pettiness.

    In fairness, several bloggers said a few harsh things about Michelle Obama’s outfit, “Who shot the drapes?” being the one that sticks in my mind. It kind of goes with the territory. If it were me I’d suggest the first lady always show up with something totally batshit insane, like the sort of dress that even Bjork wouldn’t wjear. Just to keep people a little nervous (“This guy has his finger on the button and he lets his wife go out in public wearing THAT?”) But this is just reason #732 why it’s a good thing I would never be president.

    In a country where what the first lady wears can inspire entire lines of clothing that millions of people want to wear, creating increased jobs and sales revenue, Laura Bush has been distinctly … uninspiring.

    I don’t think we need to make the life of a first lady (and one day, first dude) any harder than it is by pinning responsibility for any sector of the economy on them. I seriously doubt that, had Laura Bush spent as much time on clothes as Jackie O did, the people who care about such things would have been flocking to the stores to get that Laura Bush look. More likely she would have been criticized for it. I don’t recall Nancy Reagan getting kudos for helping out the porcelain china industry.

    JosephW–Why not give the guy a chance to actually be president??? I mean, cripes, I’m not saying you have to be as naive as the people who think he’s going to pay their gas bill for them and cure the world with a sprinkling of pixie dust but at least wait for him to actually screw up. What’s he done since getting elected that has actually done any harm?

    To those of you who are rejoicing at this, I might remind you ALL that there are a LOT of “believers” who were EXCLUDED from that. Do groups such as Wiccans and Buddhists NOT count as “believers” or are they all “NON-believers”?
    Sorry, for having this reputation of being a great speaker, Obama futzes it up quite a bit for what he DOESN’T say.

    C’mon, you have to draw the line somewhere. The more you add the angrier the ones who get excluded will be. he could have mentioned 20 religions and all we’d here about was how angry the Zoroastrians and Dutch Raëlism (reformed) members got for being excluded. Cut the man some slack.

    More proof of the wisdom of Harlan Ellison’s words at San Diego Con those many years ago: “You can’t say anything without offending SØMÊ-gøddámņëd-bødÿ.”

  37. (but, hey, you’ll always have GW Bush to blame as a back up).

    Ahh, they’re coming out of the woodwork now…

    So, I ask you, Richard: when’s the last time you blamed something on Clinton? Last week? Last month? Last year?

    Conservatives are still getting great mileage out of Clinton, and it’s been 8 years.

  38. Afterthought: I still see some conservatives bìŧçhìņg and whining about Carter, and that was before I was born. 😛

  39. I would remind everyone that he’s only HALF-black

    I would remind YOU that

    a) he identified as black. It’s VERY rude to ignore what people say about themselves.

    b) the one-drop rule. That still have effects today.

  40. It’s going to be fun watching Republicans try to criticize Obama without the media calling them racist. All of you who voted for Obama remember how happy you were yesterday after he gets done making this a Socialist society and you have no choices or money left.

  41. On the subject of the weather, I seem to recall Reagan’s second inaugural was held indoors. At the time, I thought it was because since he was already president, having the outdoor swearing in ceremony, the parade and all that would seem redundant. Apparently not. Apparently it was because it was too dámņ cold outside that day.

    I do think that a re-elected president could and should have a simple indoor swearing in ceremony (“do you want to be president?” “Yes.” “Fine. Done. Let’s eat.”- G’Kar and Sheridan in Babylon 5), instead of the big production given to a newly elected chief executive. And maybe they do dispense with the parade and such activities for the start of a president’s second term. I don’t remember. It’s been a while since I’ve watched a re-elected president’s second inaugural.

    Rick

  42. “Conservatives are still getting great mileage out of Clinton, and it’s been 8 years”

    I’ve never done so myself, but when people have done so, I’ve seen them criticized for doing so. Is it suddenly OK now? Will it remain OK to blame Bush for everything 8 years from now? And is the only justification for doing so because the other side did it first? Because, that reasoning won’t fly with my 7 year old, and it shouldn’t fly with adults.

    I’d love to see the oh so ‘enlightened’ folks say “You know what, we’re not going to do all the sleazy, back-handed, and slimy stuff we spent the last 8 years, bìŧçhìņg about. We’re going to do everything the right way, the positive way.” I think Obama has made a good start down that road, and I hope his followers match his example.

    We’ll see.

  43. “Um, why does the cover image of the Fallen Angel #33 seen at midtowncomics.com (the regular cover, not the incentive one) say, “Final Issue”? “

    I’ll give you 3 guesses, and the first two don’t count.

    Seriously though, I just got done reading this issue. It looks like this run is over, and there is a new FA series coming this Summer. Also, evidently Illyria from “Angel” is appearing in it.

  44. Is it suddenly OK now?

    Go back and look at the discussions of the housing market collapse on various boards, and you’ll see which president deserves the blame (Bush or Clinton) based very much on the poster’s political leanings. It happened here, it happened on other boards I lean.

    For example, many conservatives pointed the finger at Clinton because Clinton wanted Fannie and Freddie to make more loans available to lower income… never mind the fact that the problem in the market was not caused by subprime lending, but lending practices as a whole.

    All of you who voted for Obama remember how happy you were yesterday after he gets done making this a Socialist society and you have no choices or money left.

    Well, that might be an improvement, because who the hëll has any money left right now? Besides the rich, that is. It certainly isn’t the middle class.

    So, please, go crawl back into to your woodwork, because the same bs lines crying about socialism and crap line that isn’t going to work. Nobody wants to see anything more from the Neocon Handbook.

  45. So, please, go crawl back into to your woodwork, because the same bs lines crying about socialism and crap line that isn’t going to work.

    Fat chance. The twits don’t have the wits to do anything sensible.

    And I doubt these bozos even know what socialism is.

  46. Sorry for the typos in my last post. Apparently my fingers don’t want to respond today, nor do my proofreading skills.

  47. “All of you who voted for Obama remember how happy you were yesterday after he gets done making this a Socialist society and you have no choices or money left.”

    The chances of Obama making the US a socialist society are about the same as the chances of Bush making the US a theocracy. These possibilities only exist in the minds of paranoid extremists on both sides of the political debate.

    The US has solid enough institutions, any President would find difficulty in changing the system too much, either way.

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