Comments will start below the cut:
10:06–I wonder if anyone is going to mount a campaign declaring that a war hero really isn’t a war hero. Nah. Who’d do something like that? Anyway, I think I’ll keep a running tally of how many times he mentions the word “Vietnam.”
10:09–Anybody see the website promoting the ticket of Saul Tigh and Laura Roslin? There’s a whole website. I think I’ll get some of the buttons. It’s really amazing how much Tigh and Roslin look like McCain and Palin.
10:14–I think Bill Murray’s guys from “Stripes” are entering. I hear them.
10:15–He’s against a green screen. I can’t wait to see stuff get animated behind him.
10:16-I could swear I just saw someone holding up banner that are anti-McCain. How’d he get in there? Yeah! There it is. “McCain votes against Vets.” They’ve shown that guy three times so far; more than Palin.
10:18–Funny he doesn’t mention George HW Bush by name. And he didn’t mention George W. at all.
10:20–His mother looks amazing for her age. 96 years. Kind of undercuts the notion that McCain, at 72, is at death’s door.
10:21–He takes the high road with Obama. He can afford to considering the abundance of cheap shots his VP took the night before. A little late.
10:22–“We’re going to win this election! Because we’re giving money to the companies building the voting booths!”
10:23–They’re hauling out “pro-choice” protesters.
10:24–He’s trying to keep his temper. I’m not altogether sure the people shouting “USA” are GOP.
10:26–Does being investigated for corruption count as tackling corruption?
10:26-She’s worked with her hands and nose? Oh…with her hands and knows–… Got it.
10:27–She’s never been to Washington? Weird.
10:28–So the great McCain vision is to co-opt Obama’s campaign catchphrase of “change”? That’s forward thinking.
10:29–He’s not wearing a flag pin. I wonder if right wing pundits are going to harrangue him over that.
10:30–I think they’ve managed to throw out everyone who was protesting him.
10:31–Okay…he DOES know we haven’t won in Iraq, right? Plus the Taliban is resurging and bin Laden is still free.
10:33–Where is it written that Presidents and presidential aspirants always have to start pulling out the names of various random citizens to show they have touch with the little people?
10:35–“we have let Washington change us.” Yes. So says the one-time Centrist who has moved further right and brought on a further right VP candidate so he can get elected.
10:36-But the reason your party has strayed so far from basics is because of the policies and activities of George W. Bush, with whom you voted 90% of the time. I don’t think you can be both part of the problem AND the solution.
10:37–Now he’s hauling out the activist judges saw.
10:38–You know what? The history of Republican tropes against Democrats is kind of like synagogue, where the same thing is said over and over again and the worshippers respond exactly the same way. You can cut and paste anti-Democrat rants from 20, 30 years ago into today without a hitch.
10:41–Okay. Sounds good, finding more jobs that won’t go away. how?
10:42–So…the government is going to make up the difference in job wages while you’re training for a new job? But…if Obama put that forward, wouldn’t that be criticized by the GOP?
10:43–“GENERAL Obama?”
10:44–I like the shot of the guy yawning in the audience. Kind of sums up what I’m seeing: A flat and not especially exciting delivery of an uninspiring speech thus far.
10:46–I love how mentioning drilling brings Sarah Palin to her feet. How a governor of a naturally glorious state like Alaska can be anti-environment in her policies bewilders me.
10:48–Playing the terrorism card. Right out of the W playbook, although Bush remains unmentioned.
10:49–“But I’m not afraid of them. I just want to make YOU afraid of them.”
10:50–There’s one. But that’s not much.
10:51–Except there has been nothing in any of his various speeches or comments leading up to this that indicate he’s anything other than a hawk rather than someone interested in peace. Meanwhile Obama, who talks of negotiation and peace, is pilloried as being soft on security and on our enemies.
10:52–But don’t the Republicans bear a sizable measure of responsibility for Washington being the way it is?
10:54–Yeah, and Bush was a uniter, not a divider. We’ve already heard a GOP presidential candidate talking about working with the Democrats. Haven’t seen it happening.
10:55–Two mentions of Vietnam thus far.
10:56–It’s a compelling story; I just wish he had some different inflections in how he told it. He makes everything sound exactly the same. I feel as if he could be talking about being tortured or giving a brownie recipe, each is going to be given equal emphasis with no variation.
11::00-“I wasn’t my own man; I was my country’s.” Took 50 minutes, but he finally got to the sound bite.
11:02–“nothing brings greater happiness than to serve a cause greater than yourself.” Nice line.
11:04–Ðámņ. I was so hoping he’d say “Never give up, never surrender.”
Same dámņëd thing as Obama. He started to get on a roll and then, boom, that was it.
As a speechmaker he still can’t touch Obama. But speeches have never been his strength. He does far better with town hall formats or being folksy during discussions, which Obama still hasn’t got the hang of. The next few months should be…interesting.
And Bush was never mentioned.
• 
Posted by: Jason M. Bryant
McCain just mentioned that pulling out of Iraq would have demoralized our military. Is this a good time to mention that in the last few years, military suicides have increased significantly?
I just saw a headline that sounded to me like we’re on track to set another years record for military suicides.
He’s one of the ones who egged Georgia on and told them the US would support them.
Like Eisenhower with Hungary. And the results were about the same.
Depressing as it may be to say, we’re looking at the next President and VP on TV right now.
PAD And Bush was never mentioned.
The word ‘Bush’ was never used, but he did make mention of “our President.” So he alluded to Bush.
Depressing as it may be to say, we’re looking at the next President and VP on TV right now.
You think? My gut feeling is that it’s going to be Obama. I think a lot of new young voters are going to be turning out for the Democrats this year.
“You think? My gut feeling is that it’s going to be Obama. I think a lot of new young voters are going to be turning out for the Democrats this year.”
I still think that a lot of the youth vote will collapse once some of them actually see Obama having to state in detail what he wants to do if he gets elected. He has a lot of followers that can only tell you that he talks about hope and stands for change. When they find out that his “change” isn’t that different than the same old game… I just don’t think he’s carrying some of these followers until November.
I hope I’m wrong since the alternative is worse than Obama, but I have a real sinking feeling that I’m right.
Obama will sign the universal healthcare bill that will be waiting for him at the white house, he has an actual resolve to end the war, he’ll move the tax burden back on those who benefit most from the infrastructure we all contribute to, and he’ll break the ethnic ceiling. That doesn’t sound like the same old game to me.
Something I’ve wondered about the whole 90 percent thing – where did that number come from? Because I wonder if it includes darn near everything, like procedural votes or topics no one in their right mind would vote against. You know, like if McCain and Bush both agreed the “Puppies are Neat Act of 2006” was a good thing, I’m not going to argue (and if Obama voted against that, I’m troubled). I’d like to know Obama’s percentage. If it’s say 5 or 10 percent, that’s a big difference. If it’s 70 percent or so, I’m less impressed. I don’t know either way, but a little more context would help me decide how much to make of that.
I wonder how many media outlets will observe that McCain keeps talking about change and fixing Washington when the Republicans had the Oval Office for the past eight years and control of the Congress for six of the past eight years. It’s kinda like (going with STAR WARS geekiness instead of STAR TREK) the Empire trying to portray the Rebellion as the ones in charge.
Incidentally, last night’s DAILY SHOW did an amazing job of showing news clips demonstrating that the Republicans that claimed Palin was being unfairly attacked for being a woman had been using those same attacks against Hillary before. How come THE DAILY SHOW is the only (fake) news program to do this? I don’t see CNN or the major channels airing clips that directly contradict poltiicians.
Jerry, his policies have been explicitly spelled out for quite some time.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
Pick an issue, scroll to the bottom and select “Read the Plan”. That stuff has been there for quite some time, I don’t know who it’ll suddenly turn off.
And his change is significant. A better foreign policy. A smarter energy policy. A better space policy. Constitutional respect. A person who unites instead of divides. I could go on, but the point is that Obama’s positions are long vetted and I really only expect him to keep picking up steam.
How come THE DAILY SHOW is the only (fake) news program to do this?
Because they’re not biased, they’re just flat out lazy and losing sight of what real news and journalism is all about in favor of whatever makes them the quickest buck.
It’s why stories into every dealing Obama and Palin have ever made are front page, not because of any lean, but because it gets them ratings, which in return gets them their revenue.
Jasonk: The Republicans clearly needed a spellchecker for the signage. There were also “veteran’s for McCain” (which just makes me wonder why they didn’t take advantge of the G.I. Bill for some English classes).
My yawn count (in the crowd shots, though I was also yawning) was three.
Geedeck, I know that and I know what his plans are.
However, I’m not talking about myself or, apparently, Obama supporters like you. I’m talking about the small army of Obama followers out there that can’t tell you what he stands for other than hope and change. Back when he was till going in circles with Hillary I met tons of them who said that they could never vote for Hillary because she was the same old politician with the same old platforms, but they could support Obama because his platform was all about changing how Washington worked. They were amazed when I would show them the campaign websites or literature that showed that Obama wasn’t really that far removed from Hillary and the “same old” Washington politicians.
A lot of them are like that idiot woman that the McCain campaign made a commercial with who claimed that she was a Hillary supporter who was now voting McCain. When asked in an interview how she could vote for McCain, she answered that she supported his pro-choice platform. You may have noticed how long those commercials lasted after her first round of interviews where she showed that she had zero knowledge of McCain’s platforms.
Well, there are a whole lot of Obama followers out there that are just like her.
Craig: Because they’re not biased, they’re just flat out lazy and losing sight of what real news and journalism is all about in favor of whatever makes them the quickest buck.
Dude, they’re a comedy show. The Daily Show can’t lose sight of real journalism because they never had sight of real journalism. It’s not like like the people on the show 5 or 10 years ago had journalism degrees.
You’re describing the way they’ve always been, not laziness.
Oh, my. Much as I sympathize with Code Pink, I don’t think disrupting McCain’s speech was a good idea at all. Don’t make him look like a victim.
It doesn’t make him look like a victim though, it makes him look like a VILLAIN.
Somebody stands up and says “you’re wrong and you’re bad!” (Obviously I’m paraphrasing.) The person gets manhandled and taken away by the police, and McCain taunts her by telling everybody not to be distracted by the “static and background noise.”
That doesn’t make him look like a victim. That makes him look like a fascist and a bully.
PAD, thanks for liveblogging this. Your comments were just what I needed to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.
Dude, they’re a comedy show.
I wasn’t referring to The Daily Show in my post, but the mainstream media. Sorry, I should have been more clear. 🙂
Jerry, fair enough points made, but don’t you think the same could be said of McCain supporters though?
So really, we’re saying what’s important is getting the full campaign messages out with clarity. So tell me how you see the next two months going. McCain going to public financing soon, likely depending on 527 attacks to back him up, versus Obama’s grass roots donations ($10million just since Palin’s speech) and a 21st networked community-oriented volunteer campaign.
I think the debates will be significant too, and think the range will be anywhere from Obama getting hurt a bit, to McCain just getting slaughtered if he has a bad day.
I’m not saying it’s a done deal, I’m not saying it’ll be simple, but I think there’s certainly one of the two that’s a better bet.
11:04–Ðámņ. I was so hoping he’d say “Never give up, never surrender.”
PAD, we agree on one thing about this speech! I was thinking the same thing.
I have never been a McCain supporter. Not in 2000. Not in the primaries. And not really now. I started the night thinking he was better than the alternative. I am left thinking the same thing.
One thing, however, stood out. While I agree with PAD that his inflection and passion as he told his story at the end about serving his country left a lot to be desired, there was still an authenticity and genuineness that nevertheless came through. That is the one part of the speech I really believed. McCain is not about just himself. He really is not doing this for his own glory. Not perfectly, but he comes across as far less self serving than Obama.
Don’t get me wrong. Obama doesn’t come across to me like Bill Clinton did. I do have some respect for Obama and believe he has some beliefs. But Obama’s speech was a lot more about himself. There was not he selflessness like in McCains.
As speeches go, Obama was far better. So was Palin. But he got the job done. We will see if it was enough.
Iowa Jim
Actually Craig, I realised that a minute after I posted. I should have payed a little more attention.
rnmkr47, I don’t know Obama’s numbers, but you’re right about the rest. 90% is an average of the last 8 years. He’s had some years higher and some lower. Yes, it includes things that are votes about stuff like renaming something that everybody votes yes on.
“That doesn’t make him look like a victim. That makes him look like a fascist and a bully.”
No, that makes him look good for laughing off the rude interruption of his scheduled speech. There are right ways and wrong ways to point out the failings of a politician. Standing up and being an ill-mannered bore is the wrong way to do it. Acting as though your right to protest trumps an entire room full of people’s to enjoy their celebration is also the wrong way to do it. All that gets accomplished is making their target look good and/or sympathetic and making themselves and their cause look foolish to anyone but the lowest common denominator.
“Jerry, fair enough points made, but don’t you think the same could be said of McCain supporters though? “
I don’t think so. The people supporting McCain know what they’re getting. They know that McCain is the same old deal that they’ve always gotten. There are even more than a few who are just holding their noses while voting for him. There isn’t the opportunity for disillusionment by McCain supporters that there is for many Obama supporters.
No, that makes him look good for laughing off the rude interruption of his scheduled speech. There are right ways and wrong ways to point out the failings of a politician. Standing up and being an ill-mannered bore is the wrong way to do it.
These people–like Palin and Giuliani and, yes, McCain himself–have shown themselves to be rude and to be cruel. Therefore I want people to give them hëll, I want people to disrupt their speeches, and I want their lives to be as miserable as possible. It is no less than what they deserve.
There is likewise a “right way” and a “wrong way” to run for office. Taking the high road and not engaging in personal attacks is the right way. Barack Obama is doing that, and that is to his credit. Taking the low road, using Karl Rove’s playbook, is the wrong way. John McCain is doing that, and therefore he deserves whatever he gets.
The real Patriot was the guy holding up the Banner in the stands! While the Crowd were mindlessly, sheeplike chanting Usa!Usa! The founding fathers would be proud.
The real Patriot was the guy holding up the Banner in the stands! While the Crowd were mindlessly, sheeplike chanting Usa!Usa! The founding fathers would be proud.
Absolutely.
What I found interesting was how, when McCain began talking about how times were tough for people, their answer was to chant “USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!” This is something to cheer about? Do they think that shouting the name of their country, over and over, is going to make the problems go away? Are they that stupid?
Rob Brown: “and therefore he deserves whatever he gets.”
McCain deserves being made to look good by the dim witted actions of a moron in the crowd? Ok, if you say so…
McCain deserves being made to look good by the dim witted actions of a moron in the crowd? Ok, if you say so…
I still don’t see how that makes him look good. It didn’t make George W. Bush look good when protesters were dragged out of the building during his speech in 2004. It made him look unpopular. It made the delegates look like a crowd full of Romans cheering while watching somebody get fed to the lions. It was pretty sickening to me.
McCain is the big guy, with the police on his side, having the little guy hauled away. There was a chance that the guy with the banner could’ve gotten hauled away–would you have called him a moron too?
There is nothing I’d like to see more than for somebody to march into the Oval Office without being stopped by the Secret Service and to begin shouting in Dubya’s face. So that’s why I was rooting for the Code Pink woman, and why I will root for those like her, because that’s about as close as I’ll ever get to seeing a normal person get close to these bášŧárdš and make it clear to them just how hated they are.
I should add that I want to see it made clear to them just how hated they are in a way that makes them uncomfortable. You may think that the Code Pink woman was playing into McCain’s hands, and that he’s glad that he got interrupted. I’m guessing that he feels differently, and that he was inconvenienced, and that he doesn’t like being inconvenienced.
In any event, this isn’t the kind of thing that will decide the election one way or the other.
10:40 “A government that allows you to make more choices for yourself.”
Sounds really great. A pity that is the opposite of what the Republicans are about. Or maybe he is refering to a person’s choice to ban a book that offends their sensibility…
The Code Pink people just make things worse. It might feel good to go up to someone you don’t like and yell in his face, but it doesn’t accomplish anything. All it does is make you look like a raving lunatic (which you are, you’re yelling in a guy’s face) and make all the people who agree with you look bad by association.
A protester started screaming during McCain’s speech. He smiled and laughed it off. That didn’t make McCain look bad to anyone who didn’t already dislike him. The people who already dislike him don’t need convincing.
Code Pink: The internet trolls of the real world.
“10:46–I love how mentioning drilling brings Sarah Palin to her feet. How a governor of a naturally glorious state like Alaska can be anti-environment in her policies bewilders me.”
Living in the glorious state of Minnesota I can understand where she comes from. I work in an taconite plant. Taconite is where steel comes from. Our ore comes from huge, open pit mines that are constantly growing on depth and circumference. It is an environmental nightmare.
Yet these mines are tolerated because the world needs steel and because it creates jobs. Our union hall is covered in “Steel Workers for Obama” signs. We have elected liberal, pro-union politicians to congress for decades. However, these same liberal politicians that come from northern Minnesota are pro mining, pro logging, pro coal burning, pro hunting, pro gun rights, and just about everything that Mrs. Palin is for. She reflects the area and people who voted her into office. Our country needs domestic oil and Alaska has it. The people up there realize that. They also realize that more drilling will bring more jobs to their region. I can understand that and why you cant bewilders me.
The Code Pink people just make things worse. It might feel good to go up to someone you don’t like and yell in his face, but it doesn’t accomplish anything. All it does is make you look like a raving lunatic (which you are, you’re yelling in a guy’s face) and make all the people who agree with you look bad by association.
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree as to how much of a detrimental effect it has.
Does it help? Probably not. I mean, it would be nice if such a disruption caused McCain to become rattled and affected his performance, causing people to think “Gee, if he’s that easily rattled what kind of Commander in Chief will he make?”…but that’s too much to hope for, and if that isn’t the result then it probably doesn’t help.
Does it hurt? Possibly, but in my view the amount of harm it does is negligible. People have already gotten a good look at Democrats and liberals on TV elsewhere, so they know that not all of them act like those in Code Pink.
Also, I doubt that many people will make the decision on who to vote for based on how their supporters act. When I was trying to figure out who I wanted to get the Democratic nomination, I wasn’t paying attention to Obama’s supporters and Hillary’s supporters, I was paying attention to Obama and Hillary. When I was trying to figure out whether or not I could live with a John McCain presidency, I wasn’t paying attention to how his supporters acted, I was paying attention to what he was saying and what his campaign was doing.
Much as I hate to agree with him, McCain may have been right when he used the word “background” to describe this protestor. They *are* in the background, I think, and they don’t significantly hurt or help the chances of either candidate.
Final question: is McCain glad she was there? As I said, my guess is that he wasn’t glad. We know that the man’s got a bit of a temper. I don’t think anybody really enjoys being interrupted. If anything happens to ruin John McCain’s good mood, even for a moment, that’s a good thing as far as I’m concerned, and if this woman managed to accomplish that then I say more power to her.
I avoided the speech because, well, let’s face it; PAD is right. I’ve heard it for forty years.
I can’t help but notice that the GOP speeches have gone, “I’m a Republican, and here is my plan to help the country. Democrats raise your taxes! Democrats want to stop new sources of oil! Democrats oppose alternate sources of energy! Democrats want to slaughter baby pandas!” Mostly, I hear how I should vote GOP because they’re not Democrats, but not a good example as to the specifics of their plan.
Ms. Palin showed cleavage? Ðámņ – maybe I should have watched! I hope someone got it for YouTube… 🙂
And finally, and (I hope) most critical to the only trump card McCain has: I have no end of respect for the American military. They follow orders in situations where a normal person would cringe and run from. They put themselves in harm’s way. And sometimes, they are captured, tortured, and mercilessly assaulted. All true about Senator McCain.
My big question is – WHY DON’T WE RECOGNIZE THE THOUSANDS OF OTHER VIETNAM VETS TO WHOM THIS HAPPENED? McCain wasn’t ALONE in Hanoi! He wasn’t the ONLY American tortured, and a hëll of a lot of our men weren’t just tortured for a couple of years (and then treated a little less brutally for the remaining three or four years) – THEY WERE KILLED. TORTURED TO DEATH.
If being a Vietnam POW is a qualification for the presidency, I’ll bet there are a hëll of a lot of people who suffered far worse than McCain did – and for him to continue to make the case that he was the main representative of the USA to be under duress in Vietnam is a tremendous insult to all those other POWs. For shame, Senator. For shame.
I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
x have watched! I hope someone got it for YouTube… 🙂
And finally, and (I hope) most critical to the only trump card McCain has: I have no end of respect for the American military. They follow orders in situations where a normal person would cringe and run from. They put themselves in harm’s way. And sometimes, they are captured, tortured, and mercilessly assaulted. All true about Senator McCain.
My big question is – WHY DON’T WE RECOGNIZE THE THOUSANDS OF OTHER VIETNAM VETS TO WHOM THIS HAPPENED? McCain wasn’t ALONE in Hanoi! He wasn’t the ONLY American tortured, and a hëll of a lot of our men weren’t just tortured for a couple of years (and then treated a little less brutally for the remaining three or four years) – THEY WERE KILLED. TORTURED TO DEATH.
If being a Vietnam POW is a qualification for the presidency, I’ll bet there are a hëll of a lot of people who suffered far worse than McCain did – and for him to continue to make the case that he was the main representative of the USA to be under duress in Vietnam is a tremendous insult to all those other POWs. For shame, Senator. For shame.
I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
…
The basic platform for McCain 2008 is that McCain will bring us victory. They say this explicitly. Protesters infiltrating McCain’s speech demonstrate he doesn’t enjoy the control he’s trying to sell himself as having.
Our tradition of dissent is the US’s most valuable resource.
Interesting links here–people ran all 3 major speeches through Word Cloud which makes a visual chart of the frequency of terms in a given piece of text.
Palin- http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/palincloud.jpg
Obama- http://www.esoterpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/obama-word-cloud.png
McCain- http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/mccaincloud.jpg
I was surprised to see that in Obama’s speech McCain was one of the most mentioned words, while Palin and McCain and Palin did not mention Obama by name very much. In some ways, of course, all 3 were alike.
I’m tempted to run this software over other significant speeches in history to see what I get.
Interesting links here–people ran all 3 major speeches through Word Cloud which makes a visual chart of the frequency of terms in a given piece of text.
Palin- h**p://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/palincloud.jpg
Obama- h**p://www.esoterpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/obama-word-cloud.png
McCain- h**p://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/mccaincloud.jpg
I was surprised to see that in Obama’s speech McCain was one of the most mentioned words, while Palin and McCain and Palin did not mention Obama by name very much. In some ways, of course, all 3 were alike.
I’m tempted to run this software over other significant speeches in history to see what I get.
Interesting links here–people ran all 3 major speeches through Word Cloud which makes a visual chart of the frequency of terms in a given piece of text.
Palin- pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/palincloud.jpg
Obama- http://www.esoterpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/obama-word-cloud.png
McCain- pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/files/2008/09/mccaincloud.jpg
I was surprised to see that in Obama’s speech McCain was one of the most mentioned words, while Palin and McCain and Palin did not mention Obama by name very much. In some ways, of course, all 3 were alike.
I’m tempted to run this software over other significant speeches in history to see what I get.
McCain doesn’t name Obama or Bush because he’s not for change. The change candidate has to mention the standards he’s changing. Taboos are established to shelter privilege.
10:22–“We’re going to win this election! Because we’re giving money to the companies building the voting booths!”
What was actually said to illicit this comment?? Because if they’re truly paying for the building of the booths, that’s dámņ scary……
What was actually said to illicit this comment?? Because if they’re truly paying for the building of the booths, that’s dámņ scary……
Google “Chuck Hagel” and “voting machines” and read what you get.
PAD
“I don’t think you can be both part of the problem AND the solution.”
Exactly. Who does McCain think he is — alcohol?
They are reporting that McCain got better ratings than Obama did for their respective speeches…which I find rather amazing. I would have guessed nobody was going to tune in to the RNC. Palin’s big numbers I get but is there more interest in McCain than I know about?
The hurricane got pretty good ratings, too. People love a train wreck.
I was actually surprised that Obama’s speech didn’t have higher ratings. It had extremely high ratings, a lot was made out of it beating American Idol and other stuff. But the total was 36 million watchers. That’s the combined number of people that voted for him and Hillary in the primaries. I would have expected virtually all of them to have watched, plus some Dems who didn’t vote but will in the Election, plus some Independents, plus some Republicans.
The ratings really could mean anything. It could mean that a lot of people expected Obama to just say what he’s said before, but they hadn’t been paying attention to McCain up until now. It could mean that with the Republican convention having three days of speeches instead of four, Republicans were less sick of speeches in the end than Democrats.
My favorite theory is that more Democrats were willing to watch McCain’s speech than Republicans willing to watch Obama’s. Given that the day after Palin’s speech earned more money for the Democrats than for the Republicans, this is what I’m betting on.
Eric L. Sofer said:
“My big question is – WHY DON’T WE RECOGNIZE THE THOUSANDS OF OTHER VIETNAM VETS TO WHOM THIS HAPPENED? McCain wasn’t ALONE in Hanoi! He wasn’t the ONLY American tortured, and a hëll of a lot of our men weren’t just tortured for a couple of years (and then treated a little less brutally for the remaining three or four years) – THEY WERE KILLED. TORTURED TO DEATH.
If being a Vietnam POW is a qualification for the presidency, I’ll bet there are a hëll of a lot of people who suffered far worse than McCain did – and for him to continue to make the case that he was the main representative of the USA to be under duress in Vietnam is a tremendous insult to all those other POWs. For shame, Senator. For shame.”
We have and continue to recognize Vietman POW’s that have gone through such terrible experience. And McCain doesn’t pretend he was the only one who was captured and tortured… if you’d have actually watched the speech you’d have known this. McCain was very humble when he was relating his story… but lets be realistic, he endured imprisonment and torture for 5-1/2 years. Experiencing and surviving such a terrible ordeal goes towards the man’s character and for some reason his detractors want to dismiss this and claim he’s exploiting his own experiences. He’s not. And no one is saying this alone qualifies him for president (well, except the usual suspects in the Left Wing are claiming this)– it’s just one piece of the overall puzzle. That’s it. Shame on you for casting such unfair accusations against McCain.
And do yourself a favor and do a little reseach on what John McCain actually had to endure. It’s a miracle he even lived. You sir paint a very dismissive portrait. Heck, it almost sounds like you think he was put up in a luxury hotel during those years of imprisonment. Again, shame on you.
Dennis, McCain is *definitely* exploiting his time as a P.O.W.
I don’t think the speech last night was inappropriate, there’s a time for biography and that was it. But John McCain has answered questions about the economy by talking about his time as a P.O.W. That’s a complete dodge.
You’re right that the experience is a testament to his character. That’s true enough. But he’s trying to use it as more than that, which belittles the experience.
Dennis,
You replied to my comments, so let me see if I can parse what you’re saying.
“POW’s have gone through such terrible experience…” OK.
“McCain doesn’t pretend he was the only one who was captured and torutred, if you’d watched the speech…” I never said that he was. He sure does seem to present it that way sometimes, but that my be my perception. And I was not referring only to his speech – but that is the topic here, so maybe I’m exceeding the subject.
“McCain was humble… he endured imprisonment and torture for 5½ years…” No contradictions or disagreements so far.
“Experiencing and surviving such a terrible ordeal goes towards the man’s character” – I’ll grant you that. It’s not the ONLY thing, but it certainly makes a significant mark.
“For some reason, his detractors want to dismiss this and claim he’s exploiting his own experiences. He’s not.” He isn’t? Then why does he bring it up? Why so frequently? What else has he mentioned with such regularity about those elements and experiences that shape him? Why does this appear to be the card that gets played so very often, and why does no other experience come up when we discuss his qualifications for being president?
I give you the example that kind of stunned me – and please point out any factual flaws. John McCain was asked how many houses he owns. He does not know. It was determined that he has seven, and Barack Obama pointed out that this is unusual for most people, to not know how many homes one has. And the McCain campaign replied, “Well, for 5½ years, he had only one home – a POW camp.”
Sorry – that’s the kind of distracting non-sequitur that I look and and wonder why the hëll anyone would bring it up except to confuse the matter with emotion instead of fact.
“No one is saying this alone qualifies him for president” – very probably true. I’ll go as far as to grant you this fact – but it is the qualification that seems to get emphasized time and time and time again. I’m a somewhat frequent TV watcher, but I haven’t seen any McCain ads indicating, “Senator McCain passed this bill, backed this law, voted on his own initiative on this many issues.” Sure have heard about that POW time, though.
CASTING ACCUSATIONS? Okay, wait a minute. I accused him of what? Of exploiting his time as a POW to get himself elected to president? Okay, that’s true. Deny it if you will. But is it unfair? Do you mean that you really do not see the emphasis that this experience receives, as opposed to the rest of the Senator’s life and career? Shame on me for pointing out the truth?
“Do a little research on what John McCain actually had to endure. It’s a miracle he even lived.” So, the question arises once again – is what he suffered sufficient qualification to elect John McCain president? Are there others in government who are also POWs, who suffered torture and near death? Would THEY be qualified to be president? With the emphasis the McCain campaign puts on the Senator’s experiences, that seems to be the case to me.
“You sir paint a very dismissive portrait. Heck, it almost sounds like you think he was put up in a luxury hotel during those years of imprisonment. Again, shame on you.”
I’ll quote myself (heaven knows I do it all the time! 🙂 “I have no end of respect for the American military… all true about Senator McCain.” First, tell me where it sounds as if I’m deprecating the man’s experience – what, by noting that thousands of others had the same experiences? That’s not making light of McCain, that’s the truth. And I recognize and respect his service and suffering – the same as I recognize for all those others. You may think I should feel shame for that; but I assure you that I do not. I feel respect and awe and gratitude to them.
But I don’t feel it is a qualification to be President of the United States.
You made some interesting points – thanks for your comments!
I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
Nothing wrong with exploring the POW story. It shows courage, fortitude and self-sacrifice, and I suppose those are good qualities to have in a President. It’s not enough qualifications to make him President, but are obviously desirable traits.
I’m not even offended that McCain seems to be a opportunist, trying to appease the Religious Right to win the election. It shows that he is a practical man, and I much prefer an opportunist than a true believer. True believers scare me.
McCain seems like a good guy that would make a good President. I only pray that McCain doesn’t die and leave the US to the tender cares of Book Banning Babe (or would that be Creepy Christian Creationist?).
I’m going to regret this…
You sir paint a very dismissive portrait. Heck, it almost sounds like you think he was put up in a luxury hotel during those years of imprisonment. Again, shame on you.
Nobody is painting a dismissive portrait of McCain. But you, imo, seem to be playing right from the typical playbook that any questioning of military personnel in any way, shape or form means we’re being unpatriotic and, as I mentioned before, leads to the unsurprising calls of “How dare you!”.
And, let’s face it, McCain is going to have to play up this part of his character, because there are other parts, no matter how many times he says he regrets it, that are just as important.
“And, let’s face it, McCain is going to have to play up this part of his character, because there are other parts, no matter how many times he says he regrets it, that are just as important.”
Of course. And Obama is playing the same game. Hence, we’re being treated to commentary on the importance of community organizers.
Hence, we’re being treated to commentary on the importance of community organizers.
And boy, what commentary that has been. Commentary that gives the impression that if one wants to give back to their community, they should stop wasting their time and get into politics instead. That you should become a flip-flopping small-time mayor, or spend 25 years in Congress and only after that period of time stress that you’ll bring about change when you’ve never cared to bring about any before.
But, to be blunt, if you think downplaying Obama’s community service is a worthwhile gesture on the part of the Republicans, then you shouldn’t mind references to McCain’s character regarding his cheating on his disabled wife for the younger, pretty woman with the silver spoon.
It’s all relevant, wouldn’t you agree?
“It’s all relevant, wouldn’t you agree?”
I agree completely. Go for it.
But the commentary I was talking about was from Obama’s campaign and the media. Like the e-mail that was sent out right after Palin’s speech from the Obama camp. They can’t let the Republicans get away with talking down community organizers sinces that’s the extent of Obama’s leadership experience.