I’d love to stage my own version of Ahmadinejad’s speech at Columbia and have it be like a Seinfeld monologue. Just have him saying basically the actual things he said, but on a small comedy club stage, with the Sienfeld cadences, and the little music pops. “We don’t have homosexuals in Iran.” (roar of laughter) “Why are you laughing? That’s not funny! None of this is funny! Like…what’s all this talk about the Holocaust? It needs more research!” (even more laughter) “Stop laughing! This is serious!” (music pops)
Although, to be fair, his phrasing (well, the translator’s phrasing) was accurate: “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country.” That is true. In our country, homosexuals can openly lobby for the right to marry without being…oh, what’s the phrase…executed by the government.
Y’know, say what you will about Hitler…at least his name was easy to spell and pronounce.
PAD
• 
The most powerful way in which we can recognize evil is to have a video record of it. I’m very glad Ahmadinejad was able to speak at Columbia, and I’m thrilled at the mocking reception his remarks received; it’s exactly what needs to happen to deflate tin-pot dictators. I only wish it happened more with our home-grown variety.
Ahmedinejad isn’t that hard to say once you get through the syllables once or twice. A bit harder to remember how to spell, but that could be said for most names not from your own culture (especially ones in languages without clear-cut transliteration schemes…heck, even a name as common as Mohammed has several accepted English spellings!).
That said, I’mADinnerJacket is more of a political sideshow. He doesn’t really have a lot of power, due to the way Iranian politics are set up, he really is on the level of a standup comedian. A useful figurehead and distraction. And, believe it or not, he probably manages to put a friendlier face on a lot of his government’s policies and beliefs. He temporizes, rephrases, and steps gingerly around a lot of things that his true masters really believe in wholeheartedly. To that extent, he’s quite good at his job. He may be mocked and reviled by just about everyone outside his own country, and not even respected much in his own, but he probably knew that would happen when he took the job, so I don’t pity him or anything. Unless he took the job at gunpoint, which I suppose isn’t impossible….
I personaly felt they should have ended it with a questionaire like in the Actor’s Studio.
“That said, I’mADinnerJacket is more of a political sideshow. He doesn’t really have a lot of power, due to the way Iranian politics are set up, he really is on the level of a standup comedian. A useful figurehead and distraction. And, believe it or not, he probably manages to put a friendlier face on a lot of his government’s policies and beliefs. He temporizes, rephrases, and steps gingerly around a lot of things that his true masters really believe in wholeheartedly. To that extent, he’s quite good at his job. He may be mocked and reviled by just about everyone outside his own country, and not even respected much in his own, but he probably knew that would happen when he took the job, so I don’t pity him or anything. Unless he took the job at gunpoint, which I suppose isn’t impossible….”
You know, if you take out the nouns in this sentence, it sounds an aweful lot like someone else we know in the US.
When it comes to the leader of a country seeking nuclear arms power, I don’t really put much faith in trying to write them off as ineffective or somehow not as relevant as he’s being made out to be. If all he were was one crazy guy in a suit, I’d not blink. But he’s one crazy guy in a suit who represents a whole nation of at least partially crazy people seeking to create a nuclear weapon. One of his statements was that Iran doesn’t like the way international affairs are carried out, or something similar. That statement pretty much puts my cackles up And I hate when my cackles are up.
PAD:
The other thing about Hitler that is repeatedly said is good is that he made the trains run on time.
Bobb:
Actually worrying about Ahmedinejad is next to useless. As stated before he is sort of a figure head with about as much real power as Queen Elizabeth. And the majority of the Iranian people really don’t support their government, but it is a little hard to do anything about the government when saying anything negative tends to make you dead.
I have a friend who is from Iran. I was discussing some things about Iran early this year as he still has a lot of family in Iran. (They don’t really discuss politics but you do get information anyway.) If you remember about 10 years ago there was a violent sepression of the modernization and freedom movement at the college in Tehran. What really hasn’t been discussed in this country is exactly what was done. Most of the student leaders lived in a single dorm building. The soldiers burst in to the dorm very early in the morning and began killing everyone. In a short period of time everyone in the building had been killed. (Whether they were invovled in the movement or not.) Since then every year or two, soldiers burst into the same dorm and remove a number of students. The intimidation may be obvious and brutal, but it is very effective.
I guess what I am trying to say is, the populace isn’t ‘half crazy’ and the ruling Mullah’s want us to all think so in order to make us question what they are doing without trying to counter it. The current ‘President’ of Iran really is part of them convincing people that they are just goofy and crazy. The Mullah’s really aren’t and they have a plan to achieve what ever they ultimately want to achieve.
Personally, I think that the whole incident proved why he should be allowed to speak in a public forum in this country – so his ideas can be openly mocked for the absurdity that they present.
Times like this make me proud to be an American.
We didn’t need to have him speak here in order to find out that is what he believes. Although it is interesting to see him get booed when he strays from Democrat talking points.
-DW
Although it is interesting to see him get booed when he strays from Democrat talking points.
Hmm. See my comment in the other thread about how some view Ahmadinejad’s visit.
“We didn’t need to have him speak here in order to find out that is what he believes. Although it is interesting to see him get booed when he strays from Democrat talking points.”
Rush says it on the radio and 10 minutes later, you write it here. There’s an ironic reposte about your use of “talking points” as an attempt at a useful argument, but I’ll leave that as an exercise for the student…
Rush says it on the radio and 10 minutes later, you write it here.
I’m chalking you up a point, David. 🙂
“We didn’t need to have him speak here in order to find out that is what he believes. Although it is interesting to see him get booed when he strays from Democrat talking points.”
Talk about not straying from the talking points. But, hey, at least you’ve saved yourself the trouble of actually having to think for yourself. Wouldn’t want you to strain the feeble little grey matter between your ears too badly now, would we?
Idiot.
“Idiot.”
Wow, I must have hit a nerve there.
-DW
“The other thing about Hitler that is repeatedly said is good is that he made the trains run on time.”
No, that was Mussolini (to get German trains to run on time; not that hard. To get Italian trains to do so, *real* hard).
Tom’s right, the claim about the trains running on time is typically attributed to Benito Mussolini, not Hitler. Not only that…it’s not even true, as per…
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.htm
Craig, I’ll give you TWO points back if you can manage to identify the movie line that I (badly) paraphraised.
Thanks, PAD. I looked through snopes for that, but got very frustrated not finding it. I never would have guessed that the problem was that I was looking for the word “Hitler.”
“Craig, I’ll give you TWO points back if you can manage to identify the movie line that I (badly) paraphraised.”
Sounds to me like you were paraphrasing Albert Brooks in “Broadcast News.” He feeds a particular news tip to Holly Hunter, who in turn passes it along to William Hurt, who then uses it to make a salient point on air. And Brooks, looking at his telephone, says, “I say it in here…and it comes out there.”
PAD
I was thinking of Albert Brooks as well, Craig. He’s also got one of my favorite lines from that film:
“A lot of alliteration from anxious anchors possessing powerful posts!”
It’d probably be really weird to go back and watch that now; I’d be hearing Marlon from Finding Nemo every time Brooks was on screen.
TWL
Whoops. Not Craig. David. My bad.
TWL
I personaly felt they should have ended it with a questionaire like in the Actor’s Studio.
I can only imagine…
(harp music)
What is your favorite word?
Holocaust.
What is your least favorite word?
Jews!
What turns you on?
A large vibrating egg.
What turns you off?
Mean people.
What sound do you love?
That one the hijabed women make in Not Without My Daughter…you know, it’s kind of like a cross between the Xena battle cry and a cat caught in a manifold. That one.
What sound do you hate?
The sound gay homosexuals make right as you hang them…not that we have any!
What profession other than yours would you like to attempt?
President, Hair Club for Men
What profession would you not like to participate in?
mohel
What is your favorite curse word?
Jews!
If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?
“Here, I kept your seat warm.”
This reminds me of Larry David: “The thing that I like about Hitler is that he never took any šhìŧ from magicians.”
Thanks Bill, I was too lazy to do the questions myself.
You should also mention Ahmadinejad’s performance opposite John Voight in Midnight Cowboy, and his groundbreaking performance in Rainman.
All in all, I think Ahmadinejad did a pretty good job deflecting the questions and presenting his own creative version of reality. It was the usual kind of propaganda, nothing new. He deflected the holocaust denial charges like I said he would. He only stumbled with the homosexuals.
The only part of his act that I did find interesting was his opening speech. This as close as most of us are going to get to hearing what I think is the style and content of a Muslim sermon, or a lecture in a madrasa, or maybe it’s the introductory speech in the University of Teheran (TU). In any case, he was more ambitious in that part. His sermon was designed to fit an academic audience and steer them toward Islam. He gradualy merged together scientists and religious scholars. What he did not realize is that the kind of sermon that might work for his audiences in Iran does not fit an American audience. It would be like sending a Baptist minister or a American Rabbi to make a sermon in a mosque (which might be a good idea for a reality TV show).
Yep, the 2 Points go the PAD. I had just heard Limbaugh say that exact thing on the radio at lunch. I get back and check in here and this Darin guy says the exact same thing and the time stamp is from about 10 minutes after that and that scene from Broadcast News came to my mind and turned into:
“He (Rush) says it there. It comes out here.”
Granted, it’s by no means certain that Darin actually heard that bit on Rush Limbaugh. The Right Wing Noise Machine(TM) is very efficient at distributing talking points from a wide variety of sources. I’ve since read that Sean Hannity used the same spiel on Hannity & Colmes last night. However, I only have firsthand knowledge of Rush using it.
I’m surprised nobody asked him about the kidnapping of the American diplomats.
Speaking as some who was overthere,(our guide in kuwait)if a man wants to marry a woman the man has to pay the father (family) for all the education that the woman has had
if that is the same all over the middle east
cause on the base that was stationed at there was alot of lip action on base from the local inhabitants (male on male)
Comparing Ahmadinejad to Hitler is just lazy and inaccurate. The kind of “hate” or “evil” Ahmadinejad represents is NOT of the Nazi stripe, but of the kind that existed right here in America under the practice (and supporting mindset) of SLAVERY. Whites denied its cruelty, its injustice, and their own self-serving ignorance. All done with the full sanction of their “religion.”
And just like in America, many claimed the pro-slavery mindset was not representative of that religion or Americans in general. But in each case, that’s the what the ruling elites insisted upon. And it’s the opinions of the ‘deciders’ that define the country, far more than the opinions of the powerless regardless of their number.
The value of seeing Ahmadinejad speak is its reminder that America has not yet given in to the GOP hate-scheme against homosexuals–not because they actually hate them, but to exploit the hate of ignorant voters so that the GOP can win elections.
The intolerance of Ahmadinejad’s Iran is far more subtle, far more integrated into their culture, to be slap-dashedly compared to the hit-and-run Nazis. You can’t end the “evil” in Iran’s culture of tolerance towards brutality by simply removing Ahmadinejad’s government. Because there will be another one right behind it.
Ahmadinejad’s comments about not having homosexuals in Iran reminds me of the German private investigator on ‘Soap’ (anyone remember that show?) When he was introduced to the family, specifically Billy Crystal’s character, he said, “We don’t have gays in Germany. No gays,” he glares over at Benson, “no blacks…”
And Benson said, “No Jews…”
“No Jews…” then he stops, realizes what he’s saying, and glares over at Benson again.
Peter, you could just film it and put it on YouTube. It’ll probably get a half million hits within a day or two.
Ahmadinejad’s comments about not having homosexuals in Iran reminds me of the German private investigator on ‘Soap’ (anyone remember that show?) When he was introduced to the family, specifically Billy Crystal’s character, he said, “We don’t have gays in Germany. No gays,” he glares over at Benson, “no blacks…”
And Benson said, “No Jews…”
“No Jews…” then he stops, realizes what he’s saying, and glares over at Benson again.
—-
Close. IIRC, the inspector (played by William Daniels) said we have no Gays, no crime (?), and Bob said “No Jews.”
Like you, the speech reminded me of that bit.
David
When in “Soap” did that investigator show up? I thought I had a pretty good memory of that show, but now I’m wondering.
(I can certainly hear Bob saying “no Jews,” though. Fits in perfectly with his character in several ways.)
TWL
Posted by dan at September 25, 2007 07:08 PM
The value of seeing Ahmadinejad speak is its reminder that America has not yet given in to the GOP hate-scheme against homosexuals–not because they actually hate them, but to exploit the hate of ignorant voters so that the GOP can win elections.
What? Please explain this alittle more.
When in “Soap” did that investigator show up? I thought I had a pretty good memory of that show, but now I’m wondering.
IMDB says it’s the 16th episode of season 1. Anyone have the DVD and can check?
David
Wait, I remember that now: The German investigator was played by William Daniels. It culminated with him showing up at a birthday party at the Tates and getting in all their faces, and then he made the tactical mistake of messing with Benson. And Benson picked him up and sat him on top of the cake.
PAD
Yeah, got it. William Daniels portrayed “Heinrich Himmel” in episode 16 of the first season. It was during the storyline where they were investigating the death of Robert Urich’s character.
PAD
That bit about the trains reminds me:
In Heaven, the Germans run the railroads, the Italians run the restaurants and the British are the police.
In Hëll, the Italians run the railroads, the British run the restaurants and the Germans are the police.
As to letting him speak:
I’ve said it before and i’ll it again – let them rant all they like as long as they’re not acting on it.
It makes them easier to find if it’s necessary.
Darin: “Although it is interesting to see him get booed when he strays from Democrat talking points.”
Right, right. Because for the most part, Ahmadinejad’s platform is squarely in line with that of the U.S. Democratic party, which favors a theocratic form of government that restricts the rights of homosexuals and women.
And Benson picked him up and sat him on top of the cake.
Now THAT I remember. I think he was just a character for 1-2 episodes, which is why I was initially having trouble. Thanks, all.
TWL
> …to get German trains to run on time; not that hard. To get Italian trains to do so, *real* hard.
And to get Canadian trains to run on time is … oh, forget it.
As for Hitler, was he not also responsible for the development of the VW Beetle? One of the most successful automotive/marketing concept ever.
Posted by dan at September 25, 2007 07:08 PM
“The value of seeing Ahmadinejad speak is its reminder that America has not yet given in to the GOP hate-scheme against homosexuals–not because they actually hate them, but to exploit the hate of ignorant voters so that the GOP can win elections.
What? Please explain this alittle more.”
Well, I’m not Dan, but I suspect what he’s referring to is the thinking that the GOP was crucial in instigating the anti-gay-marriage bill into an assortment of states for one reason and one reason only: As a ploy to get people into the voting booths. The thinking goes that such a bill will energize the conservative base to show up at the polls on election day to make sure that gay marriage is struck down…and, oh, by the way, as long as they’re there, they’ll naturally vote for the GOP candidates.
They make sure that gay marriage is on the ballot for the same reason that supermarkets put milk and eggs in the back of the store…to pull people in. The GOP cares less about gay marriage than they do about making sure that people show up to vote for their candidates.
That’s how they propogate hate schemes aimed at homosexuals without hating homosexuals. They just see gay rights as a means to an end, something to exploit to win elections. The same way that they’re now oh-so-concerned about all the electoral votes of an oversized state like California going to the Democrats, so they’re working hard to attend to that…while, at the same time, totally ignoring any large states that go to the GOP. Their naked manipulation is really quite stunning to watch, especially since they keep getting away with it.
PAD
Peter ‘whoever criticises Israel is anti-semitic’ David, some food for thought for you and your readers:
“Then there is the famous mistranslation of Israel being wiped off the map. It has been quoted so often now that it has attained, dare we say, myth-like proportions. But he did not say that. The original Farsi, as several more inquisitive researchers have demonstrated, did not have that apocalyptic flavouring. It meant that he would like Israel, as a state, to go away. Not genocide. Not massacring the population. Not even putting them on boats.”
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ian_williams/2007/09/not_the_only_demon_in_town_why.html
Don’t feel so clever now do you?
I think IRAN sounds like the perfect place for the conservative Republican.
1) No Homosexuals
2) Woman don’t have any rights to their body
3) Man is supreme
4) Religion trumps Politics
Yeah, but they don’t have barbecue.
I’d do more, because as ALWAYS there’s more to comment on, but I have to take a six-year old to get his shots. Yes, I have my helmet.
Maq: “Peter ‘whoever criticises Israel is anti-semitic’ David…”
There have been some threads in this very blog where people have criticized Israel vehemently (and in my view, unfairly) yet not once did Peter accuse a single poster of anti-semitism. I’m afraid your characterization of Peter is based entirely on your imagination and not one whit in reality.
Maq: “Then there is the famous mistranslation of Israel being wiped off the map…”
It’s interesting that the editorial to which you link doesn’t provide an alternate translation. It is also interesting that the piece omits any mention of Iran’s support of Hamas and Hizbollah, two groups that have been trying to make Israel go away through the use of force.
Maq: “Don’t feel so clever now do you?”
The only person with cause to reassess his or her self-image is you. You would be well-served to learn all of the relevant facts before snarking at others.
Question to you and Peter, why is there no mention of of Israel and its brutal occupation of Palestinian land not to mention Israels racist policies towards the Palestinians. Israel is not the small defenceless country surrounded by enemies — as made out by Peter, it is sustained by billions of dollars of military aid from the US, which Israel uses illegally against its neighbors.
I don’t need to re-assess my self-image, I know the facts thanks.
Oh and here is an alternative translation for you and an analysis of the speech: http://antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025
Maq: “Israel is not the small defenceless country surrounded by enemies — as made out by Peter, it is sustained by billions of dollars of military aid from the US, which Israel uses illegally against its neighbors.”
Israel is not defenseless, no. But as Israel’s recent war against Hamas and Hizbollah shows, neither is it invincible. Its enemies are a very real threat to its existence.
The Palestinian problem is complex. It is true that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians has in some cases been shameful. The problem, however, is that the more radical Palestinian groups like Hamas have demonstrated time and again that they view any concessions by Israel as a sign of weakness, making it very difficult for Israel to reach a peace accord.
There are many Israelis who believe a Palestinian state is in the their own best interests. Unfortunately, the many Palestinians who refuse to abandon their goal of Israel’s destruction are an obstacle to achieving that goal.
Maq: “I don’t need to re-assess my self-image, I know the facts thanks.”
Really? If you were aware that Iran supports groups who are waging war against Israel for the purpose of exterminating that nation, then why have you implied that Iran wishes to rid itself of Israel through peaceful means?
If you are aware of the facts I have cited, this implies you are not intelligent enough to place individual facts in a broader context. Either way, you do indeed need to reassess your self-image. I fear, however, that you will not. Research suggests that the less intelligent among us are the most prone to overestimate their own intelligence (look it up, it’s true).
Trust me, however, it’s no skin off my ášš. You’re only flushing your own credibility down the toilet. Of course, I suppose that’s not a concern when you cravenly hide behind a pseudonym while attacking others who have the balls to use their own names.
Maq: “Oh and here is an alternative translation for you…”
Gee, so he merely wants the Israeli regime to “vanish from the face of time.” That’s so much better.
If that quote were to have occurred within a context of Iranians attempting to peacefully ask Israel to pick up its bags and leave the Middle East, you might have a point. But given that Iran is using proxies to achieve its goal of making the Israeli regime “vanish from the face of time,” you’re really doing nothing but the equivalent of expelling flatulence through your mouth.
My prior post should have stated that Iran is “attacking Israel through proxies” rather than merely “using proxies.”
I think IRAN sounds like the perfect place for the conservative Republican.
1) No Homosexuals
2) Woman don’t have any rights to their body
3) Man is supreme
4) Religion trumps Politics
When I heard what some Hamas spokesmen had to say about the ideal Islamic society they want to create in Palestine, it struck me how similar it was to the ideal society posited by radical Christian Republicans.