First of a three parter guest-starring Billy Tucci’s “Shi,” with Billy contributing eleven pages of art and a flip book cover. Whad’ja think?
PAD
First of a three parter guest-starring Billy Tucci’s “Shi,” with Billy contributing eleven pages of art and a flip book cover. Whad’ja think?
PAD
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I thought it was good. A little short due to the flip-book format, but overall it was a nice way to mix it up. I’m really looking forward to seeing what Yellow Springs is all about.
Am I correct in thinking that the second and third installments are “regular” stories, rather than the flip-book format? Either would be good with me.
I should also add that I knew nothing whatsoever about Shi going into the book save for what she looks like, but I still enjoyed it.
As someone who lives in a town called Yellow Springs, it made me smile. Then someone told me what Yellow Springs was in Japanese mythology, and then I felt less special.
As someone who lives in a town called Yellow Springs, it made me smile. Then someone told me what Yellow Springs was in Japanese mythology, and then I felt less special.
I already posted this in the other thread, but I guess it belongs here then:
Though the following may sound harsh, I want to point out first that I liked most issues of Fallen Angel so far.
But:
I thought the new issue was very weak. It is a crossover issue with some character from another series who does actually seem interesting. But Lee’s part of the story consists mostly of her being teleported by a mysterious force into some wilderness and all she does is walk around without much happening till she arrives in a city where a fight starts. To be continued.
Oh, she actually does another thing: She says unfriendly things about god and points out what an unfriendly guy he seems to be who does stuff just to annoy her.
Now, I’m an atheist, so personally that doesn’t bother me.
But is it a good story?
Obviously it’s reminicent of Preacher. But Preacher was interesting because the relationship with god was DYNAMIC: God has retired and Jesse has his powers and wants to find him to give him a piece of his mind. That’s a setup that makes you eager to learn how the story goes on.
But Lee addressing god doesn’t do anything besides point out that she is a disillusioned and cynical character, a disappointed idealist. News flash: We know that. That’s what the series is and was all about from the beginning. Her constant ranting is just boring and annoying.
I like the series very much. But the new origin and all that stuff about god doesn’t work very well I’m afraid. PAD, I definitely would prefer if you stick to human stories about the humans in Bete noir, and use mystical elements only to emphasize those.
I already posted this in the other thread, but I guess it belongs here then:
Though the following may sound harsh, I want to point out first that I liked most issues of Fallen Angel so far.
But:
I thought the new issue was very weak. It is a crossover issue with some character from another series who does actually seem interesting. But Lee’s part of the story consists mostly of her being teleported by a mysterious force into some wilderness and all she does is walk around without much happening till she arrives in a city where a fight starts. To be continued.
Oh, she actually does another thing: She says unfriendly things about god and points out what an unfriendly guy he seems to be who does stuff just to annoy her.
Now, I’m an atheist, so personally that doesn’t bother me.
But is it a good story?
Obviously it’s reminicent of Preacher. But Preacher was interesting because the relationship with god was DYNAMIC: God has retired and Jesse has his powers and wants to find him to give him a piece of his mind. That’s a setup that makes you eager to learn how the story goes on.
But Lee addressing god doesn’t do anything besides point out that she is a disillusioned and cynical character, a disappointed idealist. News flash: We know that. That’s what the series is and was all about from the beginning. Her constant ranting is just boring and annoying.
I like the series very much. But the new origin and all that stuff about god doesn’t work very well I’m afraid. PAD, I definitely would prefer if you stick to human stories about the humans in Bete noir, and use mystical elements only to emphasize those.
Sorry for the double post…
An odd situation indeed. I liked the bit about free will because it did help to emphasize her situation. On the one paw she’s ‘fallen’ with all that implies yet, on the other, she seems to still be getting bossed around. The worst of both worlds?
Still, I concur with the one who didn’t care as much for the split book format. It left mevaguely unsatisfied compared to Lee’s usual outings.
What prompted the idea for this crossover?
Just a thought. Shi is going to be involved in “War of the Independents”. Is Fallen Angel going to be a part of that too?
This issue disappointed me more than any other. The flip book made it appear that less of the story was about our favorite characters.
It also had the feel of being a fill-in story. Now the next issue may change my mind, but for now . . .
“But Lee addressing god doesn’t do anything besides point out that she is a disillusioned and cynical character, a disappointed idealist. News flash: We know that. That’s what the series is and was all about from the beginning. Her constant ranting is just boring and annoying.”
Here’s the thing: I was allowing for the possiblity that Billy Tucci/Shi fans who didn’t know jack-all about Lee would be picking up the book and experiencing the character for the first time. So that really didn’t leave me any choice except to reestablish some aspects of Lee that long-time fans already knew.
PAD
Here’s the thing: I was allowing for the possiblity that Billy Tucci/Shi fans who didn’t know jack-all about Lee would be picking up the book and experiencing the character for the first time. So that really didn’t leave me any choice except to reestablish some aspects of Lee that long-time fans already knew.
PAD
Well, rereading what I said, I hope I didn’t sound like a troll.
And it’s great of course that you take the time to answer here.
I can see your point, but I still think the issue doesn’t work very well. And new readers don’t learn that much about Lee, and would probably prefer to get to know her with interesting events instead of a long monologue over panels where hardly anything happens.
Maybe a one or two-page retelling of her history, with or without illustrations, would have worked better?
For example in Maddrox and X-Factor I didn’t know the characters before (except Rahne from Academy X), but I could follow the story at once and didn’t need any long introductions. Because the story was new-reader friendly, but also really interesting.
Anyway, what I wanted to say about the Fallen Angel series in general is that all the angels and related beings don’t have so much emotional resonance. I think either supernatural beings have to work as metaphors for states of human experience (angels as metaphors for innocence or religious ecstacy for example), or they are just a fantasy analogue of humans with clans, politics, intrigues etc.
I think In Fallen Angel that is left unclear so far and we don’t really know how to emotionally relate to Lee’s old supervisor and the Hierarchy.
I hope that changes soon, because as I said, I really enjoy the stories about the people of Bete Noir.
I’m kind of in the reverse situation. I know a lot about Fallen Angel, and nothing about Shi. And I didn’t learn that much about Shi, except she seems to be a retired hero who turns into a female Sgt. Kabukiman and walks through paintings. Frankly, I thought that Shi should team up with the old Marvel character, It! The Living Colossus. You can imagine what the book would be called.
(And no, it’s not It-Shi, because Matt Groenig already has a character by that name.)
I enjoyed it although to me it did feel a bit like a teaser rather than a full story. However I also enjoy stories where events overlap, and that happened for example when Shi came across the Rock Angel had moved. I’ve seen Shi bookes but really knew nothing of the character and her side of the story did get me very interested in her. Angel’s side didn’t seem to have quite as much direction, but then if it did have more direction the whole scene of her stating she wasn’t going to follow the path might not have worked as well and I did enjoy her trying to exert her free will. Did she fail or was it her own choice to follow the path? Personally I think leaving some questions like that unanswered can lead to good debate, although it might annoy some readers.
I’d be really interested to see how Shi fans reacted to the story. It feels kind of like it Was just at the point that it would have become really interesting from Angels POV.
It’s interesting to see imbalance of clothing among the two characters. One has a lot of it, quite unusually so for a female character in comics, and the other is about half naked.
I think some of the criticisms made above should maybe be withheld until the storyline is complete.
I said in my earlier post that I thought the story was a little light because of the flip-book angle, but ultimately I think that’s okay. It’s obviously just the first part of the story, setting up the next two issues. As a bonus, it experimented with the format a little, just for fun.
I’m still intrigued about Yellow Springs, and why it’s suddenly “replaced” Bete Noir. Could anyone clue me in to what it means in Japanese mythology? The Wikipedia failed me on that front…
Au contraire!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yomi
Hope that helps. Interesting story. I don’t yet know what to make of it, but I usually say that at the start of each FA arc. Often, by the second or third issue, things fall into place. Or I’m just dense. In any case, that’s one of the things I enjoy about FA.
I was very disappointed in this issue. I felt as if I got “nothing” for $3.99. If this series wasn’t already a huge favorite of mine, I would be dropping it. The flip-book format hurt more than anything else, IMO. Hopefully this is the only part of this story that uses that format.
As I’ve never become accomplished at standing on my head, I didn’t like the flip book format.
I like the concept of 2 separate beginnings that merge into one story. The only other way that comes to mind to show the story this way is to use the top half of the page for one story and the bottom for the other story. That would severly limit the storytelling of the srtwork.
Plus, the book has nekkid bosoms. Ain’t nuthin’ better than nekkid bosoms.
Jeff Lawson: I think some of the criticisms made above should maybe be withheld until the storyline is complete.
But if you’re going to publish your work in serialized format, criticising a single installment is fair game.
—
I’ve never read a book with Shi in it before, so this is my first exposure to the character. As a first impression it didn’t leave me impressed. Mostly she struck me as someone who was weak willed and rationalizes a lot.
Her resolved to not put on her costume even if she had to wait until Judgement Day didn’t seem to last very long. Her “wouldn’t hurt you for all the world” was immediately followed by her killing the guards. (Guess all the world isn’t worth too much.)
I don’t have the book in front of me so can’t look up the exact quote, but mid fight there are some captions about her dual natures (body vs soul) struggling with each other. I didn’t get much sense of struggle at all and my immediate thought on reading the captions was “well, her soul didn’t put up much of a fight”
All in all, a sense she doth protest too much.
For the Lee side of the book, again her resolve didn’t last too long so she also looked like someone who objected just so they could register that they had complained. Mostly I was put off by her being so talky. She talks to herself a lot in her half and I though just as much could have been conveyed by less or by the art.
All in all, a fairly weak entry in the series. I didn’t find myself particularly interested in what happens to either of these women, although I will be back for the next issue because, well, it’s PAD and he’s got a good batting average in my book, so the occasional muffed swing isn’t a big deal.
But if you’re going to publish your work in serialized format, criticising a single installment is fair game.
Very true, and I wasn’t intending my comment to come across as a “shut up” by any means. I just think, that as you stated, PAD deserves the benefit of the doubt. I think the story’s going to end up in a very good place.
I like the parallel scenes of Shi and Lee quickly giving in to their respective temptations…the Lee bit in particular seemed pretty in-character. I’ll allow that the whole book was very exposition-y, but it didn’t bug me too much. As PAD said, he’s trying to hook any Shi fans that might be trying FA out.
A part of how long those struggles lasted really depends on how much time you allow between the panels. When a character is sitting around I kind of allow more time between panels than I would for action sequences, for example. So I felt Angel spent quite awhile sitting not doing anything before finally following the path. After all, there’s limited space so they can’t have pages of her refusing to move.
The story could have been done in a more traditional style, simply intercutting Shi scenes with Angel scenes. With these complaints about the flip book style, I have to wonder how those readers would have reacted to the story formatted in a traditional means. Personally I liked the way the flip book divided up the narratives.
Meh.
Well, my shop finally got a copy in yesterday. So I’m playing catch-up.
I wasn’t aware of the flip book format until I got to the end of Lee’s side of the story. I didn’t have any problem with that format, in and of itself, but think that intercutting scenes between Lee and Shi would have worked just as well.
It would’ve been nice, too, if there’d been an increased page count to go along with the flipbook format. While I didn’t have a problem with the format itself, keeping the already too short 22 page count of a comicbook (or is it 18 pages?)- especially a $3.99 comicbook- gives you two much too short stories.
I also have to say that had this been my first exposure to Fallen Angel, I don’t know if I’d have come back for more. Simply because each “side” of the story seemed much too short, given the high cost of the comic.
In fact, if it weren’t for PAD’s proven track record, I probably wouldn’t be buying the book at all. $3.99 is asking a bit much for 22 pages. I dropped Usagi Yojimbo last year for similar page count vs. price reasons. I may start getting that series in trade paperback format instead.
Fallen Angel is still a “young” book, so I’ll continue to support it via the individual issues.
Unless, of course, the price increases but the page count doesn’t. But I trust that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Was there a particular reason for the flip book format? If so, did this come from a writing standpoint, whereby people could start with either Lee’s or Shi’s story, but either way they’d meet the other character in the middle? And if that’s so, why did you think the flip book format would be the best way to tell these women’s stories regarding their respective arrivals in Yellow Springs, and their first meeting there?
If the flipbook format was a publishing/marketing decision thrust upon you, what was the rationale behind it? Did they think it would be a fun change of pace, or was there more to it?
I hope they weren’t thinking that people would see the different covers, and pick up an extra copy, thinking one was a variant. That probably wouldn’t go over too well.
As to the story itself: I have to agree that the expository narration slows the story down a bit. True, you need to bring Shi readers unfamiliar with Lee up to speed (and vice versa with Fallen Angel readers (like me) unfamiliar with Shi), but couldn’t that have gone in a text box on the inside cover or the top of the first page? Something like “Liandra, also known as Lee, was once an angel of God, until she crossed certain lines and he expelled her. She wasn’t too pleased with that, but to make matters worse, she sometimes gets the feeling he’s still pulling her strings.”
That would have let you cut some of the expository dialogue.
As I said above, I don’t know anything about Shi, other than the fact that she’s a comicbook character. Which isn’t much of a help. I still don’t know who she is and how she came to be, but based on context clues, she appears to have grown up in a dual-religion household, and appears to be a somewhat reluctant warrior.
Am I interested in learning more about her? Kinda sorta. I mean, I’m going to continue to get Fallen Angel, because the book and PAD have proven track records, but I’m not breathless with anticipation about learning more about Shi’s story.
I’m more interested in learning more about why Lee is in Yellow Springs, and what Dolf will say when she doesn’t even bring him back a lousy T shirt.
I trust, however, that Shi’s in this story because the character will provide either some sort of themeatic comparison or contrast to Lee- one that works best taking both out of familiar environments- and not because it’s a simple marketing gimmick.
Rick
P.S. Any chance of a Lee/G’Nort team up?
How about Lee and Jughead?
Lee and Daffy Duck?
That last one has Eisner Award written all over it. It can’t miss.
The flip book idea was mine, actually. I originally tried intercutting the storyline, but it just wasn’t working to my satisfaction. Then I began to cogitate on the notion that Billy Tucci fans might well be coming into the book for the first time and I wanted to give them “equal time,” as it were. So I hit on the notion of making the time between the heroines exactly equal by splitting the story into two halves…which is what it essentially would have been had I intertwined the narratives.
PAD