So Kath and I went to see the latest FF movie the other day.
I liked it. Liked it a lot. Liked it beyond the whole “It’s a lot better than the first effort” vibe. The plot hung together, the actors were far more comfortable inhabiting the skins of their characters, the entire family vibe was pitch perfect. Bottom line, THIS incarnation of Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny actually seemed to like each other…even love each other. In getting that right, it provided a foundation for a quality film that simply wasn’t present in the first go around.
On top of that, we have the Silver Surfer. Understand, I remember when a Surfer movie was being discussed decades ago, back when such an endeavor would have required an actor painted in silver and standing on a board…a less than impressive prospect. No more. Now we have a Surfer who is a combined effort of special effects wizards, Doug Jones, and Laurence Fishburne, and the results are spectacular.
And ultimately? It feels and “reads” like a 1960s Stan and Jack effort.
How many Marvel films can you really say that about? That they feel THAT old school, that you can bring your kids to it with relative impunity? It’s not dark, foreboding, terrifying…it’s the Lee/Kirby FF, right down to such story developments as Doc Doom endeavoring to steal the power of the Silver Surfer.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, Galactus is a cloud. But you know what? Galactus was always presented as a force of nature anyway, so hëll, why not take that to its logical extreme? Personally, I think “Ghostbusters” has forever ruined the concept of some big terrifying entity stomping about New York City anyway.
Definitely worth your time and money.
PAD
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I was disappointed that the threat from Doom was apparently bigger than the big G.
This didn’t really occur to me at the time, but now that I think about it, this is a bit of a problem, isn’t it?
Somebody earlier (or perhaps elsewhere) mentioned how it was a bit of a Mary Sue: Surfer does all the heavy lifting in defeating Galactus, and it’s not the spectacular battle you’d expect… just like the first movie, where the big fight really wasn’t a big fight, more like an abbreviated one.
In the end, I think I wish they’d left Doom out of this one and perhaps used the third movie to bring back Doom and his stealing the Surfer’s board storyline.
And does anybody know when they’ll start the script for FF3? 🙂
You label my words as “complaints”,
Yes, and you obviously had a problem with that. Good for you. Last I checked, we’re both welcome to our opinions.
you LIE about my actions, you describe said falsehoods as “amusing”,
You make assumptions about what I can or cannot understand and you insult my intelligence.
The false pretense that you have some form of high ground.
I’ve never claiming any sort of high ground here, yet you’re more than willing to assume that I’m trying to claim it. Go figure.
Are there any other falsehoods you’d like to attribute to me while you’re on such a roll?
Craig J. Ries: “You make assumptions about what I can or cannot understand and you insult my intelligence.”
Seriously, why shouldn’t I insult you? I tried a civil exchange with you and you never responded directly to me, but instead chose to ignore my every word and reiterate your opinions to a third party while describing my actions as you falsely presented them as “laughable”. You’ve repeatedly acted the part of an ášš through both unwarranted insult and a completely false portrayal of my actions. Subsequently, I’m treating you with the measure of respect your actions show you worthy of.
And this isn’t exactly transpiring in a vacuum, is it? My first response to you, back when I was bothering to respond with civility, I explained to you quite clearly that I would not treat someone who insults me with respect. I spelled it out for you again just a few posts ago. But in both instances you seem to have ignored it.
Craig J. Ries: “Yes, and you obviously had a problem with that. Good for you. Last I checked, we’re both welcome to our opinions.”
Your opinion cannot change reality, or is the concept of singular versus plural another of your stumbling blocks? You allege that these complaints were stated “over and over”, that I “continued” to post here “complaining”. You state that my “compliant” might have been reasonable the first time around… But where was the second? Or the third? You claim that it appears to you that I’ve been repeating myself? Where Craig? Where exactly did this happen? Yet AGAIN, Substantiate your lie.
Craig J. Ries: “Are there any other falsehoods you’d like to attribute to me while you’re on such a roll?”
Hardly need to Craig. You’ve done a wonderful job of it yourself.
Craig J. Ries: “I’m done with you.”
Sure you are.
“I agree with Jason Powell on just about every single point. My only contradiction is extremely minor: “The Silver Surfer just happened to fly by during the wedding (which is a contrived coincidence anyhow).” I thought the Surfer had come specifically to New York (and the Baxter Building) because he sensed he was being tracked. Which is why he destroyed Reed’s machine. Doesn’t excuse anything else, though.”
Ah, Keith, thank you. I obviously missed that. Well, fair enough then.
The other plot gripe is still major, of course: How did the Torch keep his flame powers when he absorbed the others’ at the very end, when *every other time in the entire movie*, he didn’t???
Jason Powell: How did the Torch keep his flame powers when he absorbed the others’ at the very end, when every other time in the entire movie, he didn’t???
Unfortunately, since they didn’t make any explanation about that in the movie*, we’ll have to make something up.
How about: In all previous switches of power Johnny touched just one person and then touched that same person again before touching someone else. Perhaps touching all three at once (taking without ever giving back?) made it work a little differently.
* Would have been nice if, when Johnny first swapped with Ben, Reed had said something about how incredibly dangerous it could be if Johnny touched more than one person at a time. Would have set up the possibility of his getting all four powers AND given the team’s sharing of powers at the end a bit more heroic touch since they could be doing something considered risky. (Could also have echoed back to the “Super Nova: bad” bit from the first movie.)
Thinking a bit more on it (wish the movie makers had) it could have been quite cool if Johnny continued to swap powers as all four of them took on Doom. (I really think it would have been better, instead of Johnny as the one man army, to see them taking Doom on as a team.)
Then swapping powers around, keeping Doom off balance. Like the problems they had in London except now they get the hang of it.
Many of the comments are about how much better this one was than the first. If so, boy, am I ever glad I didn’t waste money on the first FF film. This second one’s definitely in the frustrating class of film where they get just enough right to make you annoyed at how much they got wrong, such as…
***SPOILERS***
– Doom. (Just the scene of the chopper with “von Doom” stenciled on it had us cringing, never mind all the rest of the horridly bad characterization.)
– Poor editing. From the initial planet exploding to the Surfer arriving on Earth seems like practically no time at all. They utterly failed to give a sense of days/weeks/months/more having passed. It is as though Galactus had a potato chip and wanted another. Hunh?
– The freezing effect from the Surfer’s passing. Hunh? At his speeds, it should be heat from friction, not cold. And if his aura freezes things, why weren’t the fishermen also frozen (remember, humans are mostly water)?
– Reed must have ftl tachnologies. How else can he know about those recently-ravaged worlds when light of the event would take several years to get
here?
– The military were STUPID. First they want Reed’s help, then they want him to go away, then they want his help, then they insult him. Can they make up their teeny, tiny little minds? And that officer, supposedly proud of having studied their dossiers, yet dunb enough to think pointing a pistol at them will impress them?!?! And what’s the U.S. military doing in a base in Ikursk, Russia?
– Yeah, the Surfer knew he was being tracked. So? Why should he care? He’s the Surfer. It’s not like humans can do anything to him.
-The “the board’s his source of power”??? *sigh*
– Agreed, he could have killed G any time, so why not?
– Yes, horrible inconsistency about Johny suddenly being able to retain his power (bad plot device because he had to fly to catch Doom).
– And what’s with “Victor” all the time? In the comics Reed SOMETIMES refered to him that way when in personal conversation. No one else did. It’s always “Doom”. Not in the film. Why?
– Agreed about the FF being bystanders to the climax. Bad, bad, bad. They should have called it the SILVER SURFER movie.
– Galactus as a cloud? How do you talk to a cloud, exactly? If there WAS something inside, why not show it?
– Johny wanting endorsement contracts? Uh, just the holographic technologies of Reed’s would have him in the Fortune 500 club. What the heck do they need endorsement contracts for?
– The political correctness of Alicia was annoying, but I could live with it … if the actress wasn’t the LEAST convincing ‘blind character’ I’ve ever seen.
– Ben was often the least tempermental of the lot. At least twice, if not more, I expected him to walk up to the military, tie their toys into pretzels and grunt “C’mon, Stretcho, these bozos don’t want us, we’re outta here.” But he didn’t. It was Reed who stood up to them with that out-of-character geek speech. Feh.
– Since when did Sue apply eye liner with a trowel? There were times she seemed to be from the Tammy Baker school of cosmetics.
Lots more, but I’ve ranted too long as it is.
Yes, the Surfer and Ben were the two high points of the film. Not their fault the script didn’t manage their characters as well as one might have hoped. Reed was mostly not bad. But that bit in the disco?! Too, as someone else pointed out, he rarely came across as a leader. *sigh* Back to the drawing board.
However since this Frankie is apparently a reference to an established comics character, I’m going to guess that Frankie Raye and Johnny Storm are not meant to evoke the Frankie and Johnny of the folk song.
Bad guess. You were right about the folk song connection, just not about the timing; John Byrne had the folk song in mind when he created the character of Frankie Raye to be a love interest for Johnny Storm in the comics. 🙂
Just in the interest of credit where due, Frankie Raye and her pyrophobia were introduced in Fantastic Four #164 by Roy Thomas and George Perez; and yes, Roy did make joking reference to the folksong on the first page on which she appears. (It was Johnyny’s pick-up line.)
Byrne brought her back and developed her into a recurring character, but he didn’t create or name her. Rather, he grafted onto her a modification of an idea he’d had for a never-published Giant-Size FF in which the Crystal of Counter-Earth turns up as what amounts to a female, uncontrollable Human Torch.
I don’t think the Inhumans would really work for an FF movie. I think they would take over the story too much, even more so than the Silver Surfer. They belong in their own movie (not that that will ever happen).
And anyway, every Inhuman story I’ve ever read has bored me to tears (with the exception of Sean McKeever’s brilliant series, which wasn’t exactly a typical Inhumans story).
The political correctness of Alicia was annoying, but I could live with it … if the actress wasn’t the LEAST convincing ‘blind character’ I’ve ever seen.
You mean blind people don’t actually always look exactly 18 degrees off to one side when talking to someone?
I haven’t read through all of the comments but I saw some confusion over whether Galactus had consumed inhabited planets prior to Earth in the original Lee/Kirby story.
I don’t have the originals but I do have a trade that collects FF #48-50 and I’m 99% sure that during the conversation between the Watcher and Galactus, Uatu says Galactus has never destroyed an inhabited planet before.
Sue Storm played the a-typical, society bride-to-be. Our society has created this idea of the “perfect” wedding and many, many women have embraced this and will do anything and everything to have the “perfect” wedding. Even superheroes. That’s why the wedding industry is such big business. I am new to FF but from long-time fans I understand that these characters have been developed outside of their superhero personas and have problems and ups and downs just like everyone else. So Sue Storm being “bridezilla-esque” seemed perfectly apt to me.
Someone above suggested that it would’ve been cool (or at least good) to have the members of the FF switching powers for the final fight with UberDoom. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t have worked ‘cuz they’re only used to their own powers. When Sue Storm got the Torch’s powers, she didn’t fly loops around the Baxter Building — she flailed and fell. Likewise, when Johnny accidentally got Reed’s powers, he (Johnny) didn’t immediately stretch up to secure the ferris wheel — he fell flat (literally) on his back. If separate attacks would’ve worked, everyone but Sue could have gone after him as a team. The combined powers bit worked because you mixed the stretching, flaming, and super-strength in one attack. (He *had* invisibility but apparently Johnny decided the element of surprise really wasn’t that significant when it came to saving the world.)
BTW, this week’s anime-style FANTASTIC FOUR show on Cartoon Network does have the FF switching powers as they (try to) battle Doom.
The StarWolf
“The military were STUPID. First they want Reed’s help, then they want him to go away, then they want his help, then they insult him. Can they make up their teeny, tiny little minds? And that officer, supposedly proud of having studied their dossiers, yet dunb enough to think pointing a pistol at them will impress them?!?! And what’s the U.S. military doing in a base in Ikursk, Russia?”
That bugged me a lot too. They seem to have jurisdiction everywhere! Halfway through the film I decided to think of them as SHIELD 😀
I should’ve explained better in my earlier post about the Silver Surfers villainy-ess. I made the point about self-preservation, and rightly so, a couple of people responded by saying he’s still a villain for leading Galactus to planets filled with people. Now that I think about it, I’m ok with that line of thinking. But that’s not how it ends. After all, the film is call “Rise of the Silver Surfer”. Why would it be called “Rise” if he’d been a hero all along? In my opinion the title refers to the fact that he’s been living in moral ambiguity and nigh-villainy, only to realise that what he’s doing is wrong (took him long enough) and become a hero, or at least redeeming himself of his past actions through self-sacrifice.
And that gives you the plot of the spin off right there: Redemption. Just imagine watching Angel in space and surfing.
Now that I think about it, I’m ok with that line of thinking. But that’s not how it ends. After all, the film is call “Rise of the Silver Surfer”. Why would it be called “Rise” if he’d been a hero all along? In my opinion the title refers to the fact that he’s been living in moral ambiguity and nigh-villainy, only to realise that what he’s doing is wrong (took him long enough) and become a hero, or at least redeeming himself of his past actions through self-sacrifice.
And that gives you the plot of the spin off right there: Redemption. Just imagine watching Angel in space and surfing.
That’s exactly the way I viewed the film. He had to learn what it meant to be a hero from these people who saved him, when he was the harbinger of their destruction. He had to learn that life beyond his planet was worth saving. He had to rise up.
And the spin-off is already written – by J. Michael Straczynski! (hopefully they will get a better director.)
“That’s exactly the way I viewed the film. He had to learn what it meant to be a hero from these people who saved him, when he was the harbinger of their destruction. He had to learn that life beyond his planet was worth saving. He had to rise up.”
That’s a bit of a stretch. I think they just needed a cool-sounding title with the words “Silver Surfer” in it, and “Rise of the Silver Surfer” sounded better than Fantastic Four and the Silver Surfer.” It’s basically their way of saying “The Coming of the Silver Surfer,” but with fewer letters.
Of course, this is all pure speculation.
John – But he’d already ‘risen’ when he gave up his life, his love, everything which had been dear to him to save his world. Was it really that huge a step up to actually risk his life to save other worlds from Galactus?
Also, unlike the comic, Galactus has not set up the barrier to exile the Surfer. What’s to stop him from returning home and resuming his life since, as we saw in the film, his silver shell goes away when he’s off his board?
Ah, but Starwolf, redemption is like a carousel. It’s circular. You pay the quarter, you get on the horse. It goes up and down and around. Circular. Circle. With the music. The flow… all good things. You gotta harness in the good energy, block out the bad. Harness energy, block bad. Feel the flow. Work it.
But more seriously, good point. That initial sacrifice could certainly be what the “Rise” is referring to, though I don’t think it was featured enough in the film to be the title. As far as I know, in this context rise can be used in the past or present tense.
So what I meant by my carousel rant is that he rose up (saving his world), descended (leading Galactus to innocent planets) and then reascended (stopping Galactus)
Also, I read a suggestion on a message board that the movie should’ve been called “Ride of the Silver Surfer”. I think that’s better, but we couldn’t talk about that nearly as much 😀
John OS said, “Also, I read a suggestion on a message board that the movie should’ve been called “Ride of the Silver Surfer”. I think that’s better, but we couldn’t talk about that nearly as much.”
See my first post above for the reason why they didn’t call it “Ride of the Silver Surfer.”
The StarWolf said, “What’s to stop him from returning home and resuming his life since, as we saw in the film, his silver shell goes away when he’s off his board?”
First, his silver shell didn’t go away, it just became a little less silvery. Second, without the board, how would he get home before everyone he’s ever known has been dead for centuries? I haven’t seen any indication that scientists in the Fantastic Four movie universe (including either Reed or Victor) have developed spacecraft capable of traveling faster than light or via some sort of subspace. That being the case, it’d be a long flight home.
Or perhaps you were saying he should use the board to get home, then discard it? Well, A), as I said above, he still has the shell; and B) we don’t know that his action against Galactus hasn’t left him marooned on Earth. Maybe Galactus did throw up a barrier as a last act before being destroyed (If it was destroyed and didn’t beat a hasty but clandestine retreat); or maybe in taking out Galactus, the Surfer’s board lost a great deal of power, and now can’t go much faster than the fastest rocket we have. That’d effectively keep him from getting home in a reasonable amount of time.
And, of course, there’s C). The world (and people) he knew may no longer be there. If he’s been flying around at near light speeds, thousands of years of objective time could have passed since he left home. If he’s been traveling through subspace or some such short cut, that’s a different matter.
But any way you look at it, the Surfer can’t just go home and resume his old life.
On another note, people have said the Surfer brought Galactus to populated planets. Other than Earth, how do we know those planets were populated? Are people assuming this because Reed said, “eight days later, a planet dies.”, as if this means it had a population? I don’t recall he or anyone else saying something to the effect that the entire population of Donaldduckus VII was wiped out. In fact, until the Surfer’s arrival, I don’t recall any indication that people on Earth in the Fantastic Four movies know with any certainty that life exists outside of Earth.
Rick
P.S. Here’s a bit of irony to consider. What if, moments after destroying Alderaan, the Death Star runs afoul of Galactus? That’d be just desserts.
Rick Keating said “See my first post above for the reason why they didn’t call it “Ride of the Silver Surfer.”“
Oh yeah, that was here.
I’m dumb. 🙂
>because Reed said, “eight days later, a planet dies.”
This strongly implies Reed DOES have FTL technologies. Else, how can he be so much aware of what’s happening in star systems light years away? We’re talking shots of planets in other systems which are more detailed than Hubble manages of the farther ones in our own! And apparently in real time.
Not sure if anyone addressed this already.
But wasn’t it kind of inappropriate to cast Hurricane Katrina as Galactus?
Rick Keating: What if, moments after destroying Alderaan, the Death Star runs afoul of Galactus? That’d be just desserts.
Nah, it was only “the size of a small moon” and the big G likes to chow down on whole planets.
“Medusa will have to be an utter badass to survive a power that will look silly on the big screen.
I don’t know…CGI hair could look pretty effective.”
Well, I know some purists out there will burn me in tall effigy for this, but, if they WERE to do an Inhumans movie, maybe it’s not her hair that moves, but some weird, um, fuzzy telekinesis or something, and it makes her hair move around her head a la electrical current. Now, the real problem that I can see them running into is actually filming Black Bolt. How the heck would they do THAT?
“What if, moments after destroying Alderaan, the Death Star runs afoul of Galactus?”
Anybody else seeing Big G dribbling the Death Star and then dunking it through a planet’s rings? Anybody? No?
Darn crickets.
>I think they just needed a cool-sounding title with the words “Silver Surfer” in it, and “Rise of the Silver Surfer” sounded better than Fantastic Four and the Silver Surfer.” It’s basically their way of saying “The Coming of the Silver Surfer,” but with fewer letters.
Let’s face it, if Stan Lee or Jack Kirby had come up with the title, instead of some studion marketing hack, it probably would have read something along the lines of “Lo, the Surfer cometh!”
As for Galactus and the Death Star, think of it as an appetizer before the main course. Although, if you think about it, something that massive which has enough energy in it to do the FTL thing just might give G heartburn if the Death Star commander were to set it all off at once. Sort of the difference between drinking a pint of water in a leisurely hour or so, versus having it slam into one’s face at hypersonic velocities.
“Let’s face it, if Stan Lee or Jack Kirby had come up with the title, instead of some studion marketing hack, it probably would have read something along the lines of “Lo, the Surfer cometh!””
I actually would have preferred, “Lo, the Thurfer comes!” but that’s probably just me.
PAD
I liked it. I felt that the actor who played Reed really got into the role around the middle of the movie, when Johnny experiences some problems with his unstable molecules. I loved how they presented the Silver Surfer. He looked like a John Buscema drawing when he stood still and a Kirby drawing when he soared through the skies. Kudos to Doug Jones for his superb work in bringing the Surfer’s motions to life.
I liked Michael Chiklis as the Thing, some funny one liners, and sight gags with Stretcho near the end of the movie.
Chris Evans does a good Johnny Storm, cocky, confident, and ready to admit whenever he’s in over his fiery head.
Jessica Alba as Sue Storm looked particularly good in the sequence set in England.
Kerry Washington as Alicia seems to be the Greek Chorus in much the same way that Rosemary Harris is as Aunt May in the Spider-Man movies.
Of the two movies this year, I think that Fantastic Four: Rise of The Silver Surfer was better than Spider-Man 3 in terms of story, characters, and payoff.
Oh, and Dr. Doom looked visually imposing, but as voiced by the actor playing him, he sounded like an overcaffeinated CEO than the dreaded ruler of Latveria. 🙂
Still a good performance, though.
One word review for this movie – embarrassing.
Well, now I have read Peter David’s high merits for Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, and I have heard Paul Dini and Misty Lee outright trash it on their podcast. My opinion lies somewhere in between, but seeing as I respect all of your views, I would really be interested in some sort of debate. Perhaps Peter could do a guest shot on Paul and Misty’s podcast.