I was delayed in watching “Heroes” last night because Kath and I went to the annual SFWA get together, informally known as the “Mill and Swill,” and Ariel was good enough to record it. She also recorded “Studio 60.” Haven’t had a chance to watch that yet, but I know that for some insane reason you guys are really interested in my opinion on “Heroes,” so I’m not wasting any time. Spoilers follow:
This episode climaxes a lot of what the past weeks have been building toward: The instantly iconic “Save the Cheerleader, Save the World” mantra. Shockingly having nothing to do with Buffy, this enigmatic phrase has spurred a number of our heroes to track down Cheerverine (who I still believe is going to have to save NYC from a nuclear meltdown that only she can get to because, like the climax of Star Trek II, only she has the endurance to handle unfettered radiation to get to wherever the shut-off switch is) and save her from the even more enigmatic Syler, who apparently has a thing for slicing open the tops of people’s heads that surpasses Hannibal Lecter.
The trick when building up to something as big as this episode, with all the foreshadowing, is the problem of raised expectations. That and, in the interest of full disclosure, I was tired and fighting off falling asleep. That said, it was certainly engaging enough, particularly the sequence where Syler mistakenly goes after Cheerverine’s rival, killing the wrong cheerleader. Nevertheless, the episode was lacking two things for me: Hiro, who was MIA until the final scene, and remains the most engaging character on the show; and any real suspense as to the outcome. The painting that depicted Peter dying in his battle with Syler was utterly pointless because, although granted Peter had no way of knowing he’d survive and was thus heroic in his actions, no question, as a viewer I’m going, “Well, once he’s in proximity to Claire, he’ll just absorb her Cheerverine properties and heal himself.” Any other character being sent to the rescue, there’s suspense; with Peter, not so much.
None of which deters my enthusiasm for the series, and my continued relief that it doesn’t air on Fox since it would be on at 8 PM Friday and be canceled already. Unlike other such serialized tales in which things only seem murkier as the show progresses, “Heroes” is actually coming more and more into focus. However I think it’s time for them to lose the snore-enducing opening and closing narrative. Aiming for portenous, it’s simply pretentious, adding nothing and illuminating nothing. Unless they’re going to have the observations made by Mary Alice from “Desperate Housewives,” I’m not really seeing the point.
PAD
• 
Is this a complete list of who we’ve seen so far?
Nathan – flyer
Peter – mimic (Mimic)
Isaac – precog (Destiny)
Claire – regenerator (Wolverine)
Hiro – manipulates space/time
Niki – MPD bad ášš (Badger?)
Micah – tinkerer(?) (Forge)
DL – phaser (Shadowcat)
Matt – telepath (Prof X (but reads only, no writes))
Charlie – memorizer
Haitian – de-memorizer
Eden – pusher (Kilgrave)
Sylar – telekinetic(?)
Soccer Boy – dream walker??
Mohinder – cure for insomnia
“She learns languajes in minutes, so Id say shes a bit like Doug Ramsey on steroids.”
She learned the words that she knew in minutes, not the whole language. We don’t even know how many minutes, we just know that she read a book in the past and Hiro worked with her for a little while. She’s on the upper limits of what I’ve seen humans do, but I have seen documentaries about people who could do everything we saw her do.
So really cool and useful, but not something that would ever make people think “super powers” without the presence of other supers.
Still super cute, though. 🙂
“Charlie – memorizer
Haitian – de-memorizer”
Oooh, nice catch, Sean. Would Charlie be immune to him?
BTW, I think of the Haitian as The Mind Taker and the black haired girl (who’s also really cute) as The Voice.
Whatever this mutation is, it’s pretty narrowly focused on the good looking and well groomed section of humanity. Other than radiation guy. Oh, you forgot radiation guy, Sean.
Oh, right. Radiation guy. Thanks! Adding
Ted – radioactive
makes 16.
As for Charlie vs Haitian, I don’t think she’d be immune. He could wipe her as easily as anyone else, I expect. Doesn’t matter how much I have on my hard drive, it all wipes the same.
(I remember a short story once where a man developed perfect memory. Took him a while to sort and file all the things disparate things he knew, but once he had he was atoundingly good at putting all those little bits together and realizing what was really going on around him. Which got him in trouble with some unpleasant types who threatened him with a drug that caused memory loss. From remembering all to amnesiac. Ow.)
Okay, if the Cheerleader is “Cheerverine”– does that make the Painter “Super-Heroin”?
“Screw the cheerleader, save the waitress.
I LOVE it!”
Huh. When taken out of context, that does take on a whole new meaning. I’m not sure how having sex with Claire would save the waitress, but it is a bit more thought-provoking (and amusing) than “save the cheerleader, save the world.” I think I’m onto something.
First three things: Everyone have a safe and happy thanksgiving. 2) I did see the thing with Peter getting close to Clare would save him. 3) Thanks for mentioning Hanible Lecter, did you know the new book about him is coming out?
Sean, I agree with you except on Niki. She’s not Badger. With the memory loss, bad temper, and strength, She’s the Hulk.
Granted, she dosen’t turn green and rip off her clothes (God knows we wish she would:))But I think of her more like the Hulk.
I can’t take Peter at all seriously because, with the way he speaks and acts with only one side of his mouth (though maybe the actor has Bell’s Palsy?), and that dopey haircut, all I see is Adam Sandler’s Little Nicky character.
Oh, one more thing, Peter, you are so right: FOX would have put it on a bad night. Thank God NBC took a chance and put it on a prime night on a prime time slot.
Cheerverine’s name is Claire Bennett. This makes her Benverine.
Thank you.
I think I speak for all comic book fans when I say: Peter using Claire’s power to survive his apparent death — saw it coming.
Of course, just because Peter can mimic a power doesn’t mean he can use it. Peter was able to heal because, well, healing happens naturally. But Peter couldn’t just start flying even when around his brother (he just sorta walked on air), and when future Hiro visited him, Peter didn’t immediately start teleporting and/or jumping through time. If Syler/Cyler/that bad guy is some sort of ubertelekinetic, it’s unlikely Peter could master that power immediately.
As for Hiro, it was disappointing to see him miss the first real fight of the series. Maybe he’ll come back with a sword…
And don’t discount the waitress (if Hiro saves her). If she realizes her incredible learning ability (it seems like more than just a photogrpahic memory), just think what she could do with reading some books on mechanics and physics!
The one thing I was pleased to see here is that D.L., although he can move through solid stuff, is not the shaved-head black guy who can stick his hands in people’s heads to make their memories go away. That was a (probably deliberately) confusing point. And that HRG’s assistant has the Power of Suggestion is interesting, although with eyes that big she should have a death ray, y’know?
I’ll miss Google Girl, she reminded me of the Jordan character from Real Genius. Unfortunately, I think that Hiro failing to rescue her will be important to (a) demonstrate that the past is immutable, and (b) teach him that sometimes he will fail.
I can’t take Peter at all seriously because, with the way he speaks and acts with only one side of his mouth (though maybe the actor has Bell’s Palsy?), and that dopey haircut, all I see is Adam Sandler’s Little Nicky character.
He does have a paralysed nerve that causes it to droop Stallone has the same thing apparently.
As for Charlie, do we know that Charlie still died coming in to day or did Hiro finding no way to save her into the past pulled her into the future
A couple of the above posters mentioned Claire’s dad working for Gov’t. Has that been offically stated somewhere?
If not, I think we have 3 possibilities for Dad and co.
A) Gov’t. They’re watching, catagorizing, using, etc.
B) Watchers (either Highlander or Buffy style) Watching, collecting data, manipulating, etc.
C) Hydra. They’re an evil organization. Though, I’d have to say that their much more patient and calculating than comic book evil empires, if that’s the case.
(BTW, someone thought that Dad being ruthless by forcing Heroin Guy to use Heroin was a sign; I’m not so sure. Dad’s (especially ones with power) can probably do a lot to “ruthless” things to protect their daughters, without it being a sign of innate evilness.)
Do we know for sure that the waitress still died the same way after Hiro travelled back, or is she just missing and presumed dead? Or maybe they decided the best way to save her was to fake her death.
Or maybe she’s just dead…
-Rex Hondo-
‘Mohinderence’? ‘Black Pryde’!?
grooooan ^_^
Love the show, Heroes rocks. I kinda hope they do keep the Niki/Jessica arc separate from the main arc, it’d be a nice touch and would help avoid dragging hte rest of the story down.
Heroes is probably the closest we’ll ever get to a “Wild Cards” TV show/Movie.
Although without the FCC censorship evil, HBO could probably do a great “wild Cards” series. Just need to cast it…. gotta have Popinjay, but who to play him…
And Croyd could be played by a different person everytime he shows up 🙂
Gotta bring back Demise tho, favorite bad guy, next to Spike…
“Do we know for sure that the waitress still died the same way after Hiro travelled back, or is she just missing and presumed dead? Or maybe they decided the best way to save her was to fake her death.
Or maybe she’s just dead…
-Rex Hondo-“
Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive. Maybe she’s like Cassie form that Season 7 Buffy episode, gonna die no matter what…
If Peter absorbs Hiro’s power and time travels without Hiro, then would he be lost in time?
Hmmmmmm…….
I call the waitress Google Girl myself.
“Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive. “
That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. By that logic, stopping the nuclear blast won’t do any good because something else would kill those millions of people. That would make everything they’re building towards pointless.
If they make some distinction between changing the future and changing the past, then I’ll lose some respect for the show. I hate it when shows justify major plot holes with such arbitrary distinctions.
The Reed Richards explanation of time travel is that, when you go back in the past and make a change, it results in a divergent time track being created which continues on from the change while you return to the original track downstream. The future, on the other paw, sees you continuing on the changed path – since that future hadn’t yet happened in your subjective time line – while a possible alternate time line is created where it still happens. So it is quite possible – if you buy that pseudo-science – for a time traveller to alter his subjective future, but not his subjective past.
Not to become “Mr List” (Ack! My fanboy is showing!) but I find it nice to get these all put in one place.
And I like the names (seen in various places) that folks have been coming up with for the heroes:
Nathan –
Peter –
Isaac – Super-Heroin
Claire – Cheerverine
Hiro –
Niki – ikiN (before the alter ego had a name)
Micah –
DL – Black Pryde
Matt –
Charlie – Google Girl (hee!)
Haitian – the Black Hole
Eden –
Sylar –
Soccer Boy –
Mohinder – Mohindrance
Ted – RadiaTed
Mr. Bennet – BGM, Bad Glasses Man (like XFiles Cigarette Smoking Man)
There is only one thing that would really forbid Hiro from saving the waitress. If the producers really, really don’t like the character.
Let’s be honest. Her ability to remember and retrieve information is easy to duplicate with a good laptop computer. And while it would be nice to have a cheery, Southwestern-voiced Waffle House waitress along for the ride (maybe bringing in all those old fans who loved Flo from “Alice”) maybe the producers don’t want a character with a lot of heart and sweetness around. As the Wrong Cheerleader’s death indicated, this is that dark a series.
If Sylar doesn’t kill her, Claire’s dad will throw her in the concentration camp or shoot heroin into her for the sake of plain meanness.
After all, Gwen Stacy was nice and sweet, and bringing her back from the dead didn’t help, did it?
I prefer “The Atomic Caveman” for Ted…
It is indeed easy to duplicate the Living Library’s ability with a portable computer, but it is an awful lot harder to get that past security than it is her ability. Also, as mentioned earlier, no batteries required and no EM emissions to give it away.
The Haitian’s nom de grrrr being “Black Hole”? No. I’d see more like “Mindwipe”. After all he doesn’t seem to absorb the knowledge into himself, he just makes it go away.
Peter? How about “Xerox”?
Matt? Since he seems to look into the minds of those around him I’d take his profession and call him Police Scanner.
“The Reed Richards explanation of time travel is that, when you go back in the past and make a change, it results in a divergent time track being created which continues on from the change while you return to the original track downstream. The future, on the other paw, sees you continuing on the changed path – since that future hadn’t yet happened in your subjective time line – while a possible alternate time line is created where it still happens. So it is quite possible – if you buy that pseudo-science – for a time traveller to alter his subjective future, but not his subjective past.”
Yeah, I’ve seen explanations like that before. That’s how I know I’ll lose a little respect for the series if they use that lame a justification.
So I have two non-competing theories as to what’s happening on this show.
1) The heroes have to “Save the world” by nuking NY in the season finale. Hiro didn’t go into the future to see what he had to prevent, he saw what he has to create. He just hasn’t realized that yet. Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn’t painted anything that’s been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?
2) Claire’s dad isn’t “evil”, he doesn’t work for some government shadow operation, and he’s not Nick Fury. He’s “Sara Connor”. 20-some years ago he gets a visit from future Hiro, who tells him that he needs to save this kid who’s going to come across his path in X years or else the world will come to an end.
So the guy starts his little organization, surrounds himself with powered individuals who are able to help protect the girl, kills the girl’s mother when they do cross paths so he can adopt the girl and give her as close to a “normal” childhood as he can while still being abnormally overprotective.
(Look at his kidnappings as “catch and release”. “Telepath? Got one, you can go. Nuclear reactor guy? Yeah, I don’t think I want you hanging around. ‘Guy who can paint the future while hopped up on smack’? Yeah, it could be useful to know what’s coming, I’ll keep you.”)
>
That’s assuming that in the future that Hiro came from that Peter knew that “the cheerleader” existed and he failed in saving her. IF Peter never went to Texas, there would have been no fight for him to survive. Maybe Future Hiro now knows that they were supposed to save her, but didn’t the first time around.
GEHRU
Love me some time travel logic!
“Am I the only why who made the connection that Claire’s powers were only how Peter was going to survive? The why was because he had to survive for Future Hiro to know him and comment on his scar.”
That’s assuming that in the future that Hiro came from that Peter knew that “the cheerleader” existed and he failed in saving her. IF Peter never went to Texas, there would have been no fight for him to survive. Maybe Future Hiro now knows that they were supposed to save her, but didn’t the first time around.
GEHRU
Love me some time travel logic!
Dull, dull, dull. . .and way over-hyped. Yawn!
“Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive.”
This isn’t Final Destination.
“The heroes have to “Save the world” by nuking NY in the season finale. Hiro didn’t go into the future to see what he had to prevent, he saw what he has to create. He just hasn’t realized that yet. Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn’t painted anything that’s been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?”
I really like this theory. And it makes sense, because Isaac’s paintings apparently show what is going to happening, not what is going to happen unless someone changes it. His painting of Peter at Claire’s school came true, even though it wouldn’t have if Peter had never seen the picture. So his clairvoyance is pretty much infallible.
“What is going to happening.” In my own defense, I just woke up.
One blogger I read suggested that the “nuclear man” who appeared a few episodes ago (and escaped government custody) is going to be responsible for blowing up New York.
I wondered part-way through the episode if Peter would be the one to die in this episode, and that eventually Hiro could bring Claire back to this time so he could absorb her powers and live, since he would be the only one who could save New York.
I’ll be curious to see what Hiro’s been up to for the last 6 months. I agree that he’s the most interesting character on the show. Though I enjoy Mohinder, Peter and the cop as well (when we’re not seeing the cop’s ongoing marriage meltdown, which is boring as hëll). I’m not really interested in Claire, Niki/Jessica, or Peter’s brother.
JamesLynch: “when future Hiro visited him, Peter didn’t immediately start teleporting and/or jumping through time”
True. However, Peter WAS able to move and act within time-less space. It could be argued that Peter was only able to do that because he was repeating Hiro’s ability.
That could explain why the Future Hiro appeared to Peter; Hiro might not be able to bring others out of time-space with him. He can move them out of the way of danger (like he did in both rescues) but he can’t start talking to them.
The only other person Future Hiro could probably interact with like this would be Current Hiro (rift anyone?).
How about this: They didn’t save the cheerleader.
Mantra, time and time again, says “save the cheerleader.” Hiro says “Save the cheerleader.” No one mentions a name, but we all assume it’s Claire because she has powers. The painting that Peter finished shows a dead cheerleader, yeah? In the same pose as the cheerleader who actually died! Sure, he may have helped save “a” cheerleader, but what if he didn’t save “the” cheerleader? Claire may be nifty and have powers, but what if he was supposed to save the other one? Why the assumption that “the” = “clair”?
>So his clairvoyance is pretty much infallible.
Doesn’t necessarily mean much. One of my favourite Japanese comedy shows, SHOMUNI, also features an ‘infallible’ clairvoyant. Which doesn’t help when the people around her keep misinterpreting her visions.
“Doesn’t necessarily mean much. One of my favourite Japanese comedy shows, SHOMUNI, also features an ‘infallible’ clairvoyant. Which doesn’t help when the people around her keep misinterpreting her visions.”
But the point isn’t that people may or may not misinterpret the painting, the point is that the painting shows that an explosion will definitely(?) happen. Whether the characters try to cause it or prevent it, the painting clearly shows an explosion, which can’t be misinterpreted as anything else.
“How about this: They didn’t save the cheerleader.”
Well, then, the world is toast and there won’t be a second season 🙂
Seriously, of all the assumptions that people are being led to make, I think that this is the least likely one to be found wrong.
(The other assumptions, two of which I challenged above, are:
1: Claire’s dad works for the black-helicopter division of the federal government
2: The heroes are supposed to stop the explosion in Isaac’s painting.
3: Stopping the explosion will “save the world”
4: Claire’s instrumental in stopping the explosion. Only true if 3 is true. For all we know, the explosion in NY is the opening salvo in a 50 year war that old, wrinkled Claire will eventually be the winning general of.
5: Sylar is the “big bad”.
6: Niki is the “real” personality.
any others?)
Oh, and Isaac’s name should be “Captain Smack”, and his outfit should have a big red H on the chest.
1) Claire’s comment: “I’m just a cheerleader” – NOT “I’m just THE cheerleader — revealing.
2) Prediction: Peter bogarts Radioactive Dude’s powers and he’s the one who will present the actual threat of blowing up. – he may by then have enough control of his abilities enough to drain off Radioactive Dude’s powers. His alluded to scar could be radiation-induced.
3) Still feel there’s a larger threat — the mantra is “save the world” – not “save NYC.”
4) Speculation: Soccer Dream Kid is a genetically-enhanced clone of Mohandir’s father, with all the father’s memorie
>3) Still feel there’s a larger threat — the mantra is “save the world” – not “save NYC.”
But if NYC goes BOOM in an A-blast, it is not unreasonable to assume other cities will start going ‘poof’, too. So, saving one doesn’t preclude saving the other.
“Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn’t painted anything that’s been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?”
So far, I don’t think the character’s have *tried* to stop most of the paintings. Several of the paintings we’ve seen are ones that the other characters aren’t aware of, like the one of the waitress or the one of the train wreck.
Most of the other paintings are ones that the characters actively tried to make happen. Peter saw the flying one and jumped off a building. Hiro and Ando are doing everything they can to emulate the comic they found, even going to Las Vegas just because the comic told them to. And then Peter went to Texas for no other reason than the painting said that he’d be there.
So far we haven’t seem many examples of people *trying* to stop what happens in the pictures. So I think it’s premature to say that the paintings are infallible.
“Peter –
Isaac – Super-Heroin
Claire – Cheerverine
Hiro –
Niki – ikiN (before the alter ego had a name)
Micah –
DL – Black Pryde
Matt –
Charlie – Google Girl (hee!)
Haitian – the Black Hole
Eden –
Sylar –
Soccer Boy –
Mohinder – Mohindrance
Ted – RadiaTed
Mr. Bennet – BGM, Bad Glasses Man (like XFiles Cigarette Smoking Man)”
I thought Peter had already been dubbed RePeter.
Hiro, of course, would be SuperHiro, yes/no?
As for “Mohindrance”, the man seems to be an educated professional, who’s tasked with the job of Explaining It All to the audience, and who’s trying to gather the others together to save the world…
Perhaps he’s Professor X-Position?
(Okay, okay, I apologize…)
“So far we haven’t seem many examples of people *trying* to stop what happens in the pictures. So I think it’s premature to say that the paintings are infallible.”
Maybe. But look at it this way: if he paints something that the characters prevent from happening, then it’s not really a painting of the future, so wouldn’t he have painted what actually does happen? It can make your head spin thinking about this.
The head spinning comes from the fact that there is no solid answer at this point. If they want to write it so that the paintings are unavoidable, they’re able to do that. If they want to write it so that the paintings can be changed, they can do that too, since neither outcome would contradict what we’ve seen so far. So either is possible and we don’t have enough info yet.
“The head spinning comes from the fact that there is no solid answer at this point.”
No, not really. We’re really talking about two different things. You’re talking about the actual creation of the TV show and the choices of the writers, while I’m simply speculating about the nature and logic of clairvoyance as presented within the show, quite apart from what the writers actually intend (the “head spinning” comes from trying to “outthink” the paintings). Metafiction versus metaphysics, so to speak.
Maybe if someone succeeds in changing the outcome of one of the paintings, once they go back and look the painting will have changed to match.
Sort of like the changable future newspapers in Early Edition.
“We’re really talking about two different things.”
No, we’re talking about the same thing. I can restate everything I said without mentioning the writers once.
From the point of view of the characters in the story, nobody has actually tried to stop anything in a painting yet. Thus, there’s no evidence either way about whether or not the paintings are infallible. Once somebody actually learns about a painting and says, “I’ll do something other than what the painting shows me doing,” then we’ll find out if fate forces them into doing it anyway.
A thought that’s been floating in my head lately about the whole “save the cheerleader, save the world” thing isn’t that she’s the only one who would be able to stop the bomb blast already predicted . . .
Rather, what I’ve been wondering is this:
If the cheerleader died, her “father” takes a complete a terrible turn toward definite evil, rounding up and executing all of the “heroes,” so regardless of who’s supposed to stop the bomb, cheerleader or other wise, the bomb goes off and that’s that . . .
Derek, yeah, I was thinking something like that for awhile, too. I was even thinking that maybe when his daughter dies, the guy goes nuts and bombs New York himself.
But after more thought, I doubt that’s it. If that were it, then we’d never know that was it because saving Cheerverine would keep the Dad from ever even showing us that he was the real danger.
It has to be something that we can see later and go, “Oh, they never would have gotten through that if she hadn’t been there.” Something like PAD’s suggestion of her having to walk through fire and then do something to save everyone.