I am so freaking sick of getting recorded phone calls from Democratic candidates urging me to vote for them. What is the POINT of this? Is there really anyone out there who remains undecided the day before election day and suddenly a recorded phone call from Hillary Clinton is going to make them say, “Well, I was waffling before, but this settled it for me!”
If any of these people want to call me themselves and chat for a couple minutes, thatwould interest me, just as it does when local candidates come knocking on my door and want to talk about the issues and ask for my vote. But this recorded stuff just makes me want to go vote for whoever isn’t derailing my train of thought with these annoying interruptions.
PAD
• 
Guess I’m going to lose after all…I had realized that we’d given sheep the vote…
Of course we have! How else do you think Bush managed to get re-elected?
More on-topic – I work customer service for a major cell-service provider. Now, admittedly, my voice does come out sounding rather practiced (a necessity, for an autistic – speech doesn’t come as naturally as it does for an NT), but I certainly wasn’t expecting one of my callers to fail to acknowledge my greeting until I was just about to hang up. She’d been inundated by so many political robocalls, she thought I was just another recording!
Yeah, that sounds like a great way to get out the vote, guys…
I wish my only problem was automated phone calls.
I share an address with my folks, but not a phone number. My phone number is unlisted. Lately, several people have been trying to reach me using my parents phone number. The rub is that they are giving their first names as if they were friends calling me – I don’t even know people with those names. Fortunately, my parents weren’t born yesterday and have denied that I can be reached at that number.
Who wants to bet that these calls end after elections?
Oh… and the kicker… one of these “clever” callers -after hearing that I was unavailable- asked for my husband. I am not married. My dad was half-tempted to say that I wasn’t and if they had a “candidate” for me. LOL
Christine
Since some people have posted wondering how these calls could influence the vote, I’d like to explain one of the dirty tricks a bit more clearly. What’s happening in some places is this:
The phone message, which is received at annoying times of the day and night, begins with the sentence: I’m calling with information about [Jane Smith]. For [Jane Smith], insert the name of the Democratic candidate. This makes it sound as if the phone call is coming from the Democratic candidate.
The phone calls then continue to go into a whole bunch of bad things about the Democrat, so anyone staying on the line gets an earful of dirt. That’s bad enough, but nothing new.
But many people are going to hang up after they hear the first sentence and realize it’s a taped telemarketer-type call. So they’re not going to hear the body of the message, with all the attacks on the Democrat, and are likely to assume the message was sent on behalf of the Democrat.
These calls are aimed at undecided voters. Committed Republican voters aren’t likely to be swayed by the call, because they’re already planning to vote for the Republican. Committed Democratic voters aren’t likely to be swayed, either. But an undecided voter who keeps on receiving these calls, over and over and over, especially at annoying times when they don’t want to be disturbed by phone calls, and who thinks it is the Democrat who is responsible for these calls, will quite possibly think, Okay, that does it, that is one candidate who is NOT getting my vote!
Peter, that’s amateur our. Here in Chicago that trick is old as dirt: PRETEND to be part of the opposing party or campaign (cuz dirty tricks ain’t limited to inter-party fights, intra-party fights can do the same) calling late at night or early in the morning, being obnoxious, rude, etc. Only there was no newfangled computer making the calls; they were made by hand.
— Ken from Chicago (where folks will vote early, vote often)
Peter, that’s amateur our. Here in Chicago that trick is old as dirt: PRETEND to be part of the opposing party or campaign (cuz dirty tricks ain’t limited to inter-party fights, intra-party fights can do the same) calling late at night or early in the morning, being obnoxious, rude, etc. Only there was no newfangled computer making the calls; they were made by hand.
— Ken from Chicago (where folks will vote early, vote often)
Well out here in the Sacramento area… every other add on TV is an attack add of some sort… Mostly by Pombo or Doolittle… A few Dem ones… but mostly the Dem ones seem to be less nasty…
As for phone calls all I seem to get are calls to support this Republican or that Republican about 6 times a day. Not a single Dem call at all.
“If the Dems do not reclaim so much as one house of Congress, then, going entirely by the fact that less than 30% of the country is happy with the current direction of Congress, cheating is the first and strongest logical reason for Republicans staying in power. The second being a hopelessly corrupted electoral system where the public will is thwarted by last-minute infusions of cash and negative campaigning.”
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative–THAT YOUR GØÐÐÃMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
Well, we’ll see now, won’t we?
Folks, I hate to be the voice of anti-paranoia but all this talk about Republican Dirty Tricks vis a vis the phone calls is rificulous. I was all set up to think thatthey were calling pretending to be the Democrat and advocating throwing anthrax spores in the faces of school children. Now it turns out that the “dirty trick” is that the recipient of the call hangs up thinking that the call came from the Democrat.
THIS is a dirty trick?
It sort of assumes the potential voter is dopey enough to assume the wrong thing. I’ve noticed that an awful lot of Democrats assume their supporters are easily fooled and must be protected like a child. Confusing ballots baffle them. Phone calls confuse them. The simplest tricks leave them hopelessly befuddled.
In the last week the mood among Democrat activists seems to have shifted from “We’re going to win!” to “We’re going to blow it!” and I don’t get it. ZThere is no way the Democrats don’t pick up at least 4 Senate seats and I wouldn’t bet against them taking the Senate. The House is thiers, it’s only a question of by how much. I’d bet the mortgage on that one.
THere IS actual genuine election fraud out there. Check out what’s been going on in Missouri. But this is silliness.
Okay, it’s Tuesday monrning and time to put my final prediction on record:
The dems take the House, but fall one seat short of taking the Senate.
Let’s see how well I do.
Evil trick by Republicans, now that’s funny. People will fall for anything, maybe it’s the Democrats posing as Democrats posing as Republicans posing as Democrats. It’s weird all this talk of voter fraud, tricks and stealing elections and it’s never been proven, but hey if it makes youn feel better don’t stop believing.
Christ, Hannity was right…”either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated.”
You people are such idiots….”
Who is the greater fool? The fool, or the fool who follows them?
I swear, I don’t understand the kind of mind (and I use the term loosely) that motivates someone like you. If there are people whom I despise, as you clearly do me and anyone here who thinks differently than you, then I just don’t bother with them. It would never occur to me to show up at such a forum and repeatedly be rude and insulting, any more than it would occur to a person with normal intelligence and socialization skills to walk into someone’s house party and start spewing invective at the host and guests. The fact that you don’t care about your boorish behavior speaks volumes about you.
Which is far more than I’ll be doing, especially since you insulted one poster’s wife on another thread.
This guy’s officially shrouded. I invite anyone else to follow that example. It’s always entertaining to watch such people shouting and screaming to get attention when everyone’s ignoring them.
PAD
Well, it’s Election Day.
Let the games begin!
Ben Bradley –
Christ, Hannity was right…”either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated.”
Uhuh, and maybe you’ll deny that some Republicans, whether with the blessing of their party leaders or not, took it upon themselves to conduct voter harassment campaigns in California (against Hispanics), possibly in Virginia (against African Americans), and the robocalls that were made against the country.
Worse still, with the robocalls, the RNCC readily admitted to making the calls, and said they would continue to make them.
Deibold’s CEO said he would “deliver Ohio to the Republicans” in ’04, and he did precisely that.
NONE of the Politicians out there is worth their weight in Elephant poo
You’re probably right, more so since the symbol of the GOP is the elephant.
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative–THAT YOUR GØÐÐÃMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
Hmm. That’s an amusing one, since, until Bush came along, the polls weren’t wrong. I wonder why that is…
Bill Mulligan –
THIS is a dirty trick?
Yes, Bill, it is. It violates FCC rules in the most obvious, that being that the caller MUST identify themselves and who they’re calling on behalf of at the beginning of the call.
The fact that the robocall neither identifies the caller, nor correctly identifies who they’re calling on behalf of, are both blatant violations of the rules and law.
And that doesn’t even get into the ignoring of the Do Not Call list…
It sort of assumes the potential voter is dopey enough to assume the wrong thing. I’ve noticed that an awful lot of Democrats assume their supporters are easily fooled and must be protected like a child.
The flip side of that, however, is that the Republicans clearly believe it, too, since they initiated these robocalls in an effort to confuse and annoy potential democrat voters. There have also been reports of fliers being circulated in black neighborhoods telling voters that polling places have been moved. Similar tactics were also reported in the 2004 election.
I wouldn’t say that they believe all voters are stupid, but when a race is so tight that 1-2% can mean the difference between victory and defeat, all they have to do is confuse that tiny percentage of potential voters. That’s less than the percentage of people who think pro-wrestling is real. Or that the Weapons of Mass Destruction were found.
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative–THAT YOUR GØÐÐÃMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
That would mean that pretty much every single scientific poll on the subject for the last few months by every poll company of repute has been off by 20-30 points.
Dude, keep reaching for the stars. They’re right next to the straws you’re grasping at.
What amuses me in Oregon is how heavy the advertising has become in the last couple of days. Oregon, for those not in the know, is vote-by-mail. We’ve all had our ballot for weeks and if someone hasn’t voted yet, well, they probably aren’t going to. Yet the ads–especially for the dems–have been hot and heavy.
I actually am voting Republican for governor. The current Democrat governor isn’t a bad person but he is a lousy governor. We need a change.
What’s funny is that he calls them “your” polls, as if the people in this forum work for Rasmussen, Quinnipiac, and the half dozen other polling organizations that have consistantly shown the same trends. Sure, the only poll that truly counts is the one taken today, but when every statistical analysis shows “X” and somehow, the final vote is “Y”, then you have to wonder whether the accepted polling methods are wrong or that the vote has somehow been compromised.
Eric! –
It’s weird all this talk of voter fraud, tricks and stealing elections and it’s never been proven
Too bad you’re wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_New_Hampshire_Senate_election_phone_jamming_scandal
Unfortunately, there’s been too much money involved (see: Diebold, among other things) to prove most of the rest of it.
Yes, Bill, it is. It violates FCC rules in the most obvious, that being that the caller MUST identify themselves and who they’re calling on behalf of at the beginning of the call.
I wasn’t aware of that. If so, you are correct. I note, however, that I can’t find anything on the official Do Not Call page about this–it SEEMS to indicate that political calls are totally off their ability to regulate. Any sources I can check? It isn’t that I doubt you, it’s just that a lot of this seems to be coming from opinion sites, not factually based ones.
That would mean that pretty much every single scientific poll on the subject for the last few months by every poll company of repute has been off by 20-30 points.
The polls are wrong. I can say this because if you have been following them they are swinging all over the place. Corker ahead by 12 when he was down by 1 the previous day? Hello!
What usually happens after the races end up being much much closer than the polls suggest is that the polling company comes up with some bogus claim about a “late surge”. Amazing how often that happens. (Zogby is infamous for this)
AMyone who puts much faith in the pollsters these days is kidding themselves. (Although Bob Casey can safely rest easy).
The Corker-Ford race appears to be the most erratic in terms of the polling data. Each race is different and there is some indication that the “Corker surge” is an anamoly. Statistics are not an exact science, but when you look at the aggragate of polling data, you can use it to spot fairly accurate trends.
My test will be the Casey-Santorum race. Everyone has written Santorum off except for, well, Santorum. If he somehow surges ahead, I will know that there’s been some fraud.
I use a cell only and have never gotten a call from a politician, but one day I was sitting at work and my phone rang, I answered and heard “Let me tell you something brother!” It was a recorded call from Hulk Hogan reminding me to buy the WWE PPV the next night to see him return to the ring. I laughed for hours.
Re: the Corker-Ford race, they got a call at my wife’s job yesterday from a Corker phonebot. A little girl’s voice on the tape, claiming to be Corker’s daughter/granddaughter, “Please vote for my daddy Bob Corker, ’cause he cares about y’all.” Or words to that effect.
Gah. Makes me wanna puke.
And I just got an email from Michael Moore that actually does make me want to go vote, and after she gets off work I’m gonna drag the wife over there. This is much more important than local races, and several of those are pretty important to me. This is the election that determines whether or not the incumbent Republicans stay in power. Personally, I’d like to see every seat that’s up for re-election filled by an independent, one who could care less about special interests and corporate agendas.
But that won’t happen unless we make it so.
Miles
Bill Mulligan –
I wasn’t aware of that.
Most people aren’t. The only reason I am is because I’d worked a short stint as a telemarketer years ago, before the Do Not Call list came into existance, and it was the law then.
But they really stressed the rules at that job, because being in violation of the rules can get some fines that you really don’t want to have to pay.
Any sources I can check?
I’m trying to check.
I’ll be honest: mostly I say that there must be something in the Do Not Call list, otherwise people wouldn’t have a complaint.
I haven’t found anything yet relating to charities/politicians and if there’s a difference between live calls and automated ones, so it’s possible that those complaints won’t stick in the end.
But the other stuff in violation of FCC rules should stick.
Also, FCC rules also say telemarketers cannot call cell phones (which means if you have a cell, you don’t need to be on the DNC, but I signed up anyways), but again I can’t find anything about politicians specifically.
The polls are wrong.
Well, I was referring to the exit polls. I should have been more precise. 🙂
Nothing has changed about the polls since before 2000, so I think that alone is evidence (versus proof… yes, that comes up again :)) that there have been serious issues the last few elections.
And, unfortunately, there are already reports of voting problems, today, from electronic machines not working, and so on.
Don’t you Democrats DARE claim to be squeeky-clean. Voter fraud? How about Voter Harrassment?
Just heard one story of a guy in Maryland who, just because he had a Michael Steele bumper sticker on his car, was told by people outside the polling area that he had to go and park out on the street instead of being allowed to park in the parking lot.
Another story came of a guy who drove in the polling area in a cadillac and was immediately told “The Polls are CLOSED, REPUBLICAN, GO HOME!!”
He told them that if they continued that he would report them to the authorities inside the voting area, and they backed off…
Jesus, this is getting bad. And this isn’t even a Presidential Election.
I’m getting the feeling that WE need to get NUKED, so that we can start over.
You know, in all these future post-holocaust movies, its assumed that the world got that way due to Nuclear War.
What if it got that way because we nuked ourselves in a kind of mass seppuku?
THERE’S something for you SF writers to explore…
Here in NH a phone jamming trick put a Republican in the US Senate.
(I’d like to repeat that because it sounds vaguely important.)
Here in NH a phone jamming trick put a Republican in the US Senate.
A Phone jamming plan ran by Chuck McGee of the NH RNC in 2002 told Democrats that Governor Jeanne Shaheen was so far ahead, not to go through extreme measures to go to the polls. John Sununu Jr. won by less than 10,000 votes. Mr. McGee spent time in Federal Prison. (And while I probably would not like Mr. McGee when he is angry, prison time made him quite pleased as Mr Sununu is now a United States Senator.)
Politicians use the Do Not Call List to AVOID homes that are on it. As any politician with their name on an actual ballot will tell you, you don’t knock on a door with a “no soliciting” sign on it. You can physically do it but you will lose the vote of whoever answers the door.
Is it legal for politicians to call those on the Do Not Call list? Yes. But it is a stupid thing to do that loses votes. WHICH IS WHY THE REPUBLICANS PRETEND TO BE DEMOCRATS AND DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE — especially to independents and undecideds.
And before I field those responses, “Well who is stupid enough to believe that phone call.” the point is not whether the dirty trick is effective or not, but the fact that it is a dirty trick at all.
Needless to say the present style of negative campaigning has made me wax nostalgic for the election of 1976 when we had two Boy Scouts running for President….
–Captain Naraht
Don’t you Democrats DARE claim to be squeeky-clean.
Hmm. Last I checked, I didn’t claim that.
So, once again, you’re trying to put words in our mouths.
That’s my last post in response you to, you little hoser. By the end of the day, I’m sure you’ll be lying in the gutter, having slit your wrists after that air sac in your head deflates in the wake of a Republican collapse.
Thanks to Craig J. Ries for elaborating on my point (2002 phone jamming Seante race) earlier in the thread with a wikipedia link.
–The Capt.
P.S. I’ve always enjoyed Craig’s posts. They are always grounded in logic, reason and respect for other’s views.
Perhaps I caught Craig at a bad time…? YIKES.
–The Capt.
Meanwhile, some rather notable Dems are actually stumping with some Republican sounds. Anyone seen the recent blog posting by Orson Scott Card about the War on Terror? 🙂
“That’s my last post in response you to, you little hoser. By the end of the day, I’m sure you’ll be lying in the gutter, having slit your wrists after that air sac in your head deflates in the wake of a Republican collapse.”
God help us if you guys get back into power–if that happens I’ll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come
Ben Bradley—Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper both retired last century.
“God help us if you guys get back into power–if that happens I’ll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come”
I think this is the first time I’ve really, really wanted PAD to allow smileys on his site. I’ve rarely seen a statement so full of melodrama that it really needs, and I mean NEEDS, a good :eyeroll to be applied.
You know what, Ben? If you don’t like the results of the election so much, no one’s keeping you here. You’re free to wander off if that’s what you want to do. I’ll help you pack, if you really want to. I’ll send you off, knowing that you’re just a loser and a quitter.
I may have been amongst the losers for the past 6 years, but at least I’m not a quitter.
Captain Naraht –
Perhaps I caught Craig at a bad time…? YIKES.
*chuckle* Well, I hate to disagree with somebody who thinks so highly of my comments, but I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not perfect.
And I do try and respect those that deserve it; obviously, this Ben Bradley fellow doesn’t. 🙂
Hutch said: “(I would refuse to vote for candidates/parties bombarding me with calls and annoying the hëll out of me).”
Yeah, but the problem is that you don’t know who made the call—your candidate or the opposition.
Everyone has written Santorum off except for, well, Santorum. If he somehow surges ahead, I will know that there’s been some fraud.
No you won’t. It COULD mean that his voters were motivated enough to actually go vote, while Casey’s support was a mile wide and an inch deep.
I don’t expectthat to be the case at all. But this attitude that either my guy wins or it’s proof of fraud at the polls is not supportable.
If every voter who supports Santorum actually voted he would win. But that is unlikely, to say the least. The question for him is how much better a turnout does he need to make up for the fact that more people support Casey. Given how far behind he seems to be I don’t think he can do it. But what people tell pollsters can be very different from what they actually do in the privacy of the polling booth (one reason why black candidates often do worse on election day than the polls indicated–some people are reluctant to admit to not supporting a minority member.
“But what people tell pollsters can be very different from what they actually do in the privacy of the polling booth (one reason why black candidates often do worse on election day than the polls indicated–some people are reluctant to admit to not supporting a minority member.”
Ok, so what…you believe the polls? You DON’T believe the polls?
Would you people make up your friggn’ minds?
Or are you saying what I think you’re saying–that you only believe the polls when they support your opinion?
So what happens to all these reports of “malfunctioning voting machines” if Democrats win? Do you guys just say “DUH, well, I guess they were OK after all.”?
Agreed.
Shrouding enabled.
“So what happens to all these reports of “malfunctioning voting machines” if Democrats win? Do you guys just say “DUH, well, I guess they were OK after all.”?”
At least for me, I don’t want to see electronic polling machines at all. If the Dems do win, I hope they make the use of such machines illegal, unless they also produce a paper trail. I’ve seen people claim that a paper voting receipt isn’t a good idea, but at least have a report that the voter can review to confirm what their vote was, and then store those paper votes as a way to perform a re-count. or at least to verify the electronic results.
Pure bemusement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_lkdiWjto
Everyone should vote using Scan-Tron as far as I am concerned.
Well, irony isn’t dead after all:
In Ohio, “two Republican House members reportedly encountered difficulties at their respective polling stations. U.S. Rep. Steve Chabot was said to be turned away for not having proper identification, and Rep. Jean Schmidt could not get the scanner to accept her ballot.”
Also…
“In Cleveland, voters rolled their eyes as election workers fumbled with new touchscreen machines that they couldn’t get to start properly until about 10 minutes after polls opened.”
“In Indiana’s Marion County, about 175 of 914 precincts turned to paper because poll workers didn’t know how to run the machines, said Marion County Clerk Doris Ann Sadler.”
I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry.
Pure bemusement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_lkdiWjto
“At least for me, I don’t want to see electronic polling machines at all. If the Dems do win, I hope they make the use of such machines illegal, unless they also produce a paper trail. I’ve seen people claim that a paper voting receipt isn’t a good idea, but at least have a report that the voter can review to confirm what their vote was, and then store those paper votes as a way to perform a re-count. or at least to verify the electronic results.”
Let’s include with that MANDATORY checking of ID’s when going to vote…I went in to vote today, and showed my voter’s card. The lady at the desk checked it, and then I pulled out my driver’s license and she said “Uh…oh…OK.”
I looked at her and said “what do you mean OK!!??” Aren’t you supposed to check for ID’s? She looked dumbfounded, so I just sighed and went to do my civic duty.
I find it morally reprehensible that I have to show several forms of ID and have a hand scan just to enter a computer datacenter to work on mainframes, yet I can go and vote with pretty much just a “oh hi, its me…just gonna go vote…”
Voting is a privelige of citizenship, not a privelige of simply BREATHING.
“Voting is a privelige of citizenship, not a privelige of simply BREATHING.”
Which clearly explains why many of the deceased often end up voting in Chicago.
“Which clearly explains why many of the deceased often end up voting in Chicago.”
….and voting Democrat.
Guess that means Dr. Frankenstein was a Democrat.
I guess with their position on embryonic stem cell research that assumption is a no-brainer (pardon the pun.)
“….and voting Democrat.
Guess that means Dr. Frankenstein was a Democrat.
I guess with their position on embryonic stem cell research that assumption is a no-brainer (pardon the pun.)”
If you mean Chicago proper, yeah, I think they lean Left. But there’s plenty of areas in Chicagoland that vote Republican. Good ole Denny Haster is from Illinois, after all.
“God help us if you guys get back into power–if that happens I’ll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come”
Man, they give that button to just ANYBODY these days…
Ok, so what…you believe the polls? You DON’T believe the polls?
Would you people make up your friggn’ minds?
Different people, different opinions, ya shmuck. For example, I think you’re a democratic plant, trying to look like a stupid republican. Otheres think you’re a stupid republican. So it goes.
“Different people, different opinions, ya shmuck. For example, I think you’re a democratic plant, trying to look like a stupid republican. Otheres think you’re a stupid republican. So it goes.”
Is there a third option? After checking some of Ben’s other posts, I’d be surprised if there’s anyone that would actually willingly claim any affiliation with him.
I don’t expectthat to be the case at all. But this attitude that either my guy wins or it’s proof of fraud at the polls is not supportable.
It’s not because I don’t like Santorum. It’s that when different polls from different polling agencies consistantly show a candidate losing by a wide margin, there has to be some truth to the data. Except for the one poll that Santorum hired a convicted felon to run, every poll shows him down by 10 points or so. Plus, the polls show that the people who dislike him are far more passionate than his supporters are. So, if he wins, the most plausible explanation is that there was fraud.
And yes, I find it sad that the majority of people voting for Casey are doing it mainly to vote against Santorum.
Looking at some of today’s blogs, though, it’s not surprising that republicans have suddenly discovered voter fraud. It looks like they’re going to spend at least the next two years crying about “stolen” elections, just like the democrats have for the past six.
And I think Ben is just a troll. It’s just that he’s chosen the GOP side to be as offensive towards PAD as possible.
Bill Myers- The Cybermen wouldn’t help him. Santorum is a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and Cyberization.
He is not eligible for upgrade. He will be deleted.
I know that’s how I voted…
Well, I voted, and as usual, I split my ticket. In my opinion, no party ever puts together a perfect slate of candidates, and no party ever represents my views across the board.
Frankly, I don’t even know why there are two major parties these days. If you look at the buying, reading and viewing habits of Americans over the past 30 years or so, it all has become much more fragmented and diverse.
In 1970, the average TV viewer in the U.S. had 4-10 channels available to view, depending on whether they were in an urban or rural area. Today their are hundreds. The newsstand was no different. Instead of 50 or so titles of magazines on the average rack, one can go to a Borders where there are hundreds of title on many racks. Ditto the diversity of comics available (I remember when every comic published could fit on one spinner rack in a corner drug store). And in the arena of food or other products, the diversity is also enormous compared to the old days.
So why not a more diverse collection of political parties? I. for one, think it’s long overdue.