Well, the New York Post blew the reveal of the end of Civil War #2 before the book was on the stands. Then again, I suppose anyone who actually reads that rag deserves what they get so, y’know, that’ll teach ya.
We, however, will allow those who don’t know what’s going down with Spider-Man to frequent the board without having it ruined for them. For those who do want to discuss it–and you know you do–I provide the space below. Have at it.
PAD
• 
Quesada’s logic for not liking the Spidey marriage was that it closed off certain types of stories. Soap opera style relationships with multiple girls were a lot of what people expected from Spidey in the early days, so he reasoned that closing off the possibility of doing those stories was not a good thing in the long term.
I can understand that logic, and I see his point about the marriage. So now it seems a little odd that Spidey’s secret identity would be revealed. That’s another chunk of stories that they can’t do anymore. It’s another large detail new readers will be confused about. He had a secret identity in every cartoon, TV show and movie that the casual (or just young) reader has seen, so this seems like it would disconnect them from the character more.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea. I can see interesting stories coming out of this. I certainly don’t mind the idea of Spidey growing and changing in some ways. It just seems like this is the kind of thing that a company wouldn’t do with a major character.
Dont like it one bit, but I see it being retconned anyway. It flat out destroys alot of established drama, as bad as Superman revealing to the World he is also Clark Kent. For all the same reasons, it wont stick.
I can understand that logic, and I see his point about the marriage. So now it seems a little odd that Spidey’s secret identity would be revealed.
Um, Speedball?
Dont like it one bit, but I see it being retconned anyway. It flat out destroys alot of established drama, as bad as Superman revealing to the World he is also Clark Kent. For all the same reasons, it wont stick.
That’s traditional superheroics. However, to some extent, Spider Man broke a lot of the rules.
Peter, did you know about Spidey’s id becoming public when you started the Flash Thompson storyline in FSM? I’m curious to see how it will play out now…thanks!
“Um, Speedball?”
What about Speedball?
You know they found him alive and well, right?
This got spoiled for me, but not here, so i appreciate that.
Newsarama spoiled it mostly by having a thread talking about a big spoiler and showing half of Spider-man’s body.
and
then I was checking drudgereport for “up to the minute news” and they had the scene. It is still there if anyone cares to look
Huge mistake in my mind. A shame because PAD’s Spider-man book was really good-or had the potential to be, I really enjoyed the non-other issues,and particularly Flash Thompson. I feel, though, the book will never get a chance to stand on its own with its own identity
Sorry this happened-if permanent (Joe Q says no mindwipes).
I really don’t want the marriage to end. At all. and i feel this will lead to the end of it-either through MJ’s death, or something perhaps ending with Spider-man making a deal to reverse people’s knowledge and erase the memory of the marriage from at least MJ.
anyway, keeping her as his wife is the way to go for me-I like how JMS and PAD write the marriage-and if this is permanent, the secret ID thing, it is a big mistake.
“and i feel this will lead to the end of it-either through MJ’s death, or something perhaps ending with Spider-man making a deal to reverse people’s knowledge and erase the memory of the marriage from at least MJ.”
Those are also things that J.Q. said he wouldn’t let happen. He said that Peter the widower is even worse than Peter the married guy. He also said that things like mindwipes and turning back time would make people feel like the last 20 years were all invalidated, something that he doesn’t want to do.
I think I understand the fuss myself. I just don’t think there’s a valid reason for it.
It’s still all about Peter trying to understand the relationship between power and responsibility, right? So long as that continues to be respected — and from what I see, it is — there’s no problem here.
Speaking of comics yesterday, did anyone else read the newest issue of Ms. Marvel? Carol has to go into hiding, and is told to check into a room under the name Linda Danvers, because no one would be interested in that name.
I miss Supergirl.
This is a terrific series. Truly. But I’d definitely enjoy it more if I had any confidence whatsoever that Marvel isn’t going to wish all of it into the cornfield eventually. I’m certain that at best, it’ll be a “House of M” sort of deal, where the only lasting effect is to remake the MU into a form that’s easier to editorially manage.
I keep thinking of that episode of “Seinfeld” where Kramer announces that he’s going to be remodeling his apartment. “Levels. It’s alllll going to be levels. Levels, Jerry!”
And Jerry nods and sips his coffee, because as ridiculous as this project sounds, and as disruptive as all that construction would be, he knows from past experience that despite all the big talk, it’s never going to really happen.
So I’m enjoying the story. And part of me is intrigued by the notion of these monumental events becoming an inescapable influence on everything that happens in the MU for the next five years. But when you get down to it, after every CW and tie-in issue — and particularly after I read an interview with Quesada about the unholy earth-shatteringness of it all — I’m just nodding and sipping my coffee.
I don’t want to sound like the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, so I won’t say, Worst. Plot. Twist. Ever. But honestly, I keep thinking, “Spider-Man would never do that.” But of course, I’ve had similar thoughts about the entire plot of Civil War since the series was announced. The only sequence of events that would make sense to me is:
1. The Super-Hero Registration Act is announced.
2. All the Marvel super-heroes band together to oppose it.
3. The U.S. government releases Super Sentinels, or perhaps Super Soldiers, to enforce the act.
4. The Marvel super-heroes trounce them.
5. The Super-Hero Registration Act is abandoned or repealed.
But I’d like to hear the other side of the argument: PAD, were you one of the people who made the decision that Spider-Man should reveal his identity? And if you were, what convinced you it was a good idea?
“Soap opera style relationships with multiple girls were a lot of what people expected from Spidey in the early days, so he reasoned that closing off the possibility of doing those stories was not a good thing in the long term.”
Well, they always can give Peter Parker some lovers. ¿Anybody said Black Cat?
Didn’t Spider-Man have just about the LAST Secret ID in the whole Marvel Universe? Seriously, who’s left?
I’m not buying Civil War, but the last issue of JMS’s Spidey title kinda leant towards The Big Reveal anyway, so I’m not sure how “spoiled” it can be for any regular reader.
You know, I managed to avoid all the spoilers floating around the past week or so until I got into the car yesterday morning and heard Howard Stern and crew talking about it. It was a choice between driving into a tree or have the whole Peter Parker reveal spoiled. I should have taken the tree…
Peter, I agree with Daniel: I want to know how you felt about the Spidey reveal and whether you agree with it or not. I’m betting on not, but I understand if you don’t want to annoy the PTB.
Personally, I think this all ends with a Dr. Strange forgetfulness spell.
My own opinion: Spidey says, ‘Screw all of you, I quit. Me and MJ are going to sit on a beach somewhere; call me when the super-villains have surrounded the White House- and make sure my signed amnesty is posted on the front door.’
I saw it pop up in a yahoo news headline. grumble grumble
JAC
Elongated Man had a public identity and a successful marriage. Granted, he didn’t have the top tier villians that Spider-Man has.
How many times in Spidey’s history has Mary Jane been in danger? So.. whats the difference now? She just needs to hire a bodyguard, thats what most stars do.
This is probably a lot better for her too when with her friends and acquaintances.. “You married that guy? And he’s not an actor?” .. “Um no.. he’s Spider-Man and he sticks to the ceiling.”
My thoughts:
It’s either a huge fakeout, or a misguided story development. Either way, it’s not going to stand, obviously. If it’s a fakeout (a la the Silver Age “revelations” of Spidey’s identity)… well, I can’t think of anyway to do that without it seeming cheesy, and I’m concerned that’s exactly what it will be.
If it’s an attempt at a legitimate story development…. well, they’ll quickly figure out that the character doesn’t work that way, and Xavier will have to do a worldwide mindwipe or something.
I guess we just have to wait till Civil War is over to see which it is, but I for one think that is the completely wrong sort of suspense… the audience should be focused on what’s going to happen in the story, not wondering whether the guys behind the curtain will make a particular editorial decision. In essence, they’ve boiled the question down to “Is Marvel really stupid enough to do that?” and given their track record with character decisions over the last few years, the truly sad thing is that is a completely legitimate question.
If they are that stupid, the thing I’d most like to see when Civil War is over and done with, would be an honest, creator-by-creator breakdown of what they think of the decision, no holds barred. If they think it’s stupid or ill-advised, they should be encouraged by The Powers That Be to give their honest open opinion. That would certainly generate a lot more interest in I think, by giving fans who hold the opposing view some representation inside the company.
But again, that’s if it’s not a huge fakeout.
Fake out. No doubt about it. I don’t care what Joe Q says, there will be a mindwipe or some other gimmick.
Personally, I think Stan Lee should have done this somewhere around Amazing Spider-Man #8 (think how cool it would have been to see Flash Thompson find out that “Puny Parker” is his idol, Spider-Man). Forty years late, but hey, it’s finally happened.
PAD: Actually, I was more interested on your take of the subject. As a writer for one of the core SM titles, specifically the newest SM title, what do you think of the reveal? It’s somewhat artificial to me, but what do I know?
Long time reader of PAD’s blog.. first time I felt like commenting.
Seeing this news makes me realize that deciding to drop all the comics I collect.. I don’t like Spiderman revealing his identity.. I despise the dissolution of his marriage to MJ.. Hate the Civil War concept (even the heroes who’s ids were revealed have long been on record as understanding why others keep it secret).. hate knowing Wolverine’s past (destroys the mystery).. at the Distinguished Competition – hate the One Year Later storyline.. absolutely DETEST that Jason is not dead..
I could probably go on and on… but in the end, it seems that comics have lately been more about shock factor rather than storytelling.. JMS and PAD Spider-books being an exception until this nonsense leading into Civil War.
I know that I am no longer the target audience for these books.. and in this age of video games, movies, and instant gratification, comics have to do something to get their demographic’s attention.. but still, I mourn at the loss of the heroes of my youth.. and the retconning of the stories that I remember so fondly.
“I despise the dissolution of his marriage to MJ”
sigh
Um, actually, while the newspaper revelation brought the story to national attention, the REAL “blowing” came LAST WEEK in the pages of “Thunderbolts” as part of Marvel’s “First Look” program. (For those who don’t know about this, it’s a program through which participating retailers get a selection of the next week’s Marvel and DC titles.) The issue of “Thunderbolts” in question (which officially went on sale Wednesday, the 14th) was included among last week’s “First Look” books, and the scene appears on page 2 as part of a television news program playing in the background.
From what I gather through other sources, apparently no one at Marvel caught this and a certain Joe Quesada was more than just a bit peeved when the info made its way around the internet late last week.
Didn’t an issue of Spider-Man that came out like a week after Civil War #1 have the same ending?
Re: the marriage: At SDCC I’m asking Joe Q just what the hëll his problem is with 20 somethings being married, and since he’s already ruined the Summers marriage, why does he feel he needs to destroy another.
As for the big reveal, it was all worth to see JJJ. That image was priceless.
I have just got issue #1 of Civil War and it will be weeks until I get the next issue.
So far, I enjoy it a lot. Reading such a political, thought provoking comic story in Marvel is not something I am used to and also in the context with the ongoing “war against terror” and related topics, you can`t help to make some comparisons.
With my package I also got my latest issue of the Comics Buyers Guide and your views about spoilers. I understand your position but I also think, IF (and that is important) spoiler warnings are given, there is nothing wrong with them. I like reading spoilers, not because they “ruin” my enjoyment but because I see them as teasers. They increase my appetite – well, sometimes, of course, also not. But even then, I know that I have to look at spoilers about something I haven`t read or seen yet with caution. I can form a preliminary opinion but have to do my best to approach the book or whatever with an open mind.
So far, I haven`t got issue #2 and all I have seen so far is this discussion. After Peter was so worried about the consequences of revealing his identity in the first book, this is not a development I would have expected. On the other hand, from articles I have read before that had a more general look at Civil War, I had a gut feeling for a while that Peter will indeed do it.
I think it offers a lot of interesting story possibilities but if I like it or not depends very much on the execution. I don`t want the marriage with MJ to end. I don`t want to see her killed or be the damsel in distress numerous times. As someone already said, give her a bodyguard and also, show that the lady has some teeth and won`t be an easy victim.
Something else about spoilers: Not only do I like reading them because I am curious but also, when I finally get this book, the discussions about this topic will have died down and I will lose the opportunity to participate. I experience that with books all the time and it is very frustrating.
I say we just start throwing out ideas on how to retcon this reveal. All suggestions are welcome! I’ll go first.
#1 – Peter’s press conference was, in reality, made in an alternate universe, controlled by Mysterio, and his broadcast was exclusively directed towards an audience of Skrulls.
#2 – Peter sticks with the “Iron Spidey” look, proclaiming, “That guy wasn’t me! I have the red and Gold costume! See!”
#3 – The Punisher and Wolverine kill everybody on the planet who knows.
#4 – Simply never mention it again, ala Baby May / Clone Saga. If anyone ever mentions it, Parker & Supporting Co. will automatically throw their hands up over their ears and scream, “LA LA LA LA LA LA! I’M NOT LISTENING TO THIS! LA LA LA LA LA LA!”
#5 – Wanda Did It
And so on… you know it’ll have to happen eventually, lets just start thinking of ideas now.
“Re: the marriage: At SDCC I’m asking Joe Q just what the hëll his problem is with 20 somethings being married, and since he’s already ruined the Summers marriage, why does he feel he needs to destroy another.”
Bones: The horse is dead, Jim.
Kirk: We… can’t take… that chance! Keep… beating it!
I think it’s a mssive mistake, and to me seems completely out of character for Spidey. Responsibility is his byword and I can’t believe he would risk the lives of his loved ones in this way. Because that’s what WILL happen – the only big story “possibilities” that it opens up are ones that bring the villains down on MJ and May (and Pete gets sued by JJJ for misleading him for years or somesuch guff).
All in all, a HORRIBLE decision. Stupid move, JQ.
I can’t quite get my head around it, to be honest, for many of the same reasons expressed in this thread already. I do know that I don’t like it.
Willing to see where the story goes from here because I’m generally enjoying the whole Civil War so far but my overall enthusiasm for Marvel comics has been hit quite hard by this.
People keep going on about the “Power & Responsibility” angle, which I agree with, he is taking it to the next level, Peter has always been upset about not being “legitimate” and having the Police after him.
For the people who use the P&R card saying that’s why he shouldn’t have done it – it should have made him protect his family, therefore his secret ID; are forgetting one very important detail about his character. Peter ALWAYS wanted to be liked – he was an outsider, a geek, a victim when he was growing up. That’s why when he 1st got his powers he went the showbusines route, he wanted the fame, the glamour, the adulation – to compensate for how he was never loved (outside of his home)when growing up.
I see his “coming out” as another aspect of peter’s complex personality – he on some level after all these yrs and after having a relatively quiet life and stability, he would see this as a confirmation that he’d done good and maybe just maybe, he could go on to have everything he wanted when he was a child……the fame and the adulation, the love. He must feel that he’s payed his dues in part and can afford to go down this route because he deserves it.
This will obviously lead into his ultimate downfall, I think and he will never ever want to go down this route again. But of course it’s too late.
Joe Q said things were getting too safe, everyone liked each other etc, If you know anything about storytelling then I would have thought this was obviously not going to go well and it will bring back, ultimately, that fugative side to spidey back again. This is the genie da’Q wants back and I think it’s on it’s way.Mark my words!
PS the cover image to #5 – I think while all the villians go after spidey, the real reason they will be doing it is to distract spidey while they go after MJ. Genie 2 now gone as well. ULP!
Well at least this will acomplish a few things:
– People will stop complaining how bad the JMS Gwen story and how out of character that was.
– Fans will beg for them to bring back the clones!
It just doesn’t fit, why did it have to be done? Hype wich is what feeds most Marvel books these days (I’m looking your way F4: Death in the Family). Why was he in his regualr costume?
Well I hope it doesn’t stick, could the Watcher have a hand in that? Who watches the Watcher?
Since this is a thread on PAD’s blog and not JMS’s….Under the possibility some have read Civil War, but Not Amazing Spider-Man
or under the possibility some have read neither but are thinking about the information they are learning in this thread…
NOTE: I am about to spoil what happened in the latest Amazing Spider-Man.
Peter’s inclination WAS to remain masked. WAS to protect MJ and Aunt May.
But he brought the question to Aunt May and MJ. MJ was at first: “We’ll go on the run with you.” But Aunt May spoke up and said she wanted the world to be as proud of him as she was. And that the promise he made at sixteen was the promise of a child made without knowledge of the realities of the world. She also told him that responsibility means not running away. MJ agreed with her.
So basically, he expected Aunt May and MJ to support him in his decision to disobey the law, and got blindsided by the two women he loved into realizing the truth of what he had to do.
Love for someone else can at times make someone go a differnt route than they would have otherwise. I also know I make decisions differently today than I did at age 16.
I hope Stark has good lawyers, because what JJJ will do to Peter for faking all those years of supposedly taking photos of Spidey will not be fun. And he just might have a case. He didn’t take the photos, the camera’s self-timer did.
I’ve never been a big fan of retcons, but between this and the “Decimation” storyline (specifically, the pretty much wholesale slaughter of characters in the New X-Men title), I wouldn’t gripe at all if the decision were made to rewind to just after the “Planet M” thing and start over…
Wildcat
And while I’m at it …
What about the publishers of WEBS? I expect Peter’ll be getting a call or letter from their lawyers as well.
One problem I have as a long time reader is this:
If it is permanent, the stupidness of it seems self-evident. It’s like saying “I am goping to take the Peter Parker you’ve read about for 20 years and say, nah, that was a clone.” So dumb, that only people in the bubble can’t recognize it.
I don’t think it is permanent. But if it is, then it will be reversed. Maybe not now, but a year from now,two years from now whatever. New creators will come and say the same thing Joe Q. says now about the marriage. Or a new Editor in chief. or there will be a movie or book to tie into. Something. So it is inevitable. Maybe after they milke a couple of years worth of stories. Especially when they have already once used the reality warping card in House of M.
it seems very odd that efforts were made not too long ago to put Iron Man’s identity back to being secret again too.
Hoinestly, for those who say the last Amazing Spider-man gave it away, it didn’t really. It set it up, but it could have gone down differently for sure. I didn’t like to have my gut feeling confirmed before I read the book, but there ya go.
Seems weird though too, because one reason for giving him organic webbing was the editor said of a need to match the movies, like synergy. and yet at the same time they gave him the ability to hear insects or something. all after he emerged from a cocoon. and then those powers were not mentioned again by anyone. until he went into another cocoon and got different powers after meeting the spider-gods or some such complete nonsense. Spider-totem, yet another thing that has been and will be ignored by everyone but JMS, until some kid now grows up who dug it and brings it back 15 years from now. So they di the synergy thing, and then do this, a non-synergy thing. I don’t believe it is permanent. and even if it is, it isn’t anyway. Even Bucky is back.
all I have to say is, when the overwhelming reaction to a story event isn’t “Wow!” or even “Nooooo!” but rather an almost resigned. “Huh, wonder how/when they’re gonna undo that…” it’s pretty much a failure…
The publisher of ‘Webs’ probably won’t have much of a case, as Peter didn’t mis-represent the photos (he sold the book to the publisher as photos of Spider-Man, and they were in fact photos of Spider-Man.)
The Daily Bugle might have more of a case, since we’ve seen on numerous occasions that Peter uses the auto-timer and poses for pictures when he needs quick cash; this practice would be frowned upon, staging photos and selling them as genuinely newsworthy.
My feeling: It will be undone. Period. The only question is whether they’ve built in a back-door for themselves, which would be where my smart money is (Quesada’s public comments aside, I think Civil War will end with everyone’s identity becoming secret again, thus restoring the public distrust of super-heroes as nobody knows who these people are. Which is much needed, both in Marvel and DC; when the Atom’s ex-wife knows who the current Robin’s dad is, that’s a sign that your heroic community’s become too close. 🙂 )
If they did intend it to be a permanent change, they’re fooling nobody but themselves; comic book concepts are like rubber bands. Stretch it as far as you like, but when you let go, it snaps back. Within six years, Peter Parker’s identity as Spider-Man will once again be a secret, whether Quesada wishes it or not.
So don’t worry so much, people. Take a break, read an ‘Essentials’ volume, and come back for more next month. 🙂
I don’t like the idea of Spider-Man letting the public know this identity. I liked Peter Parker as the down-on-his luck, outsider. Also, as a teenager, who kept this identity as Spider-Man a secret.
I didn’t follow the whole Civil War storyline. In fact I was so fed up with marvel’s hyperactive all new greatest change ever kind of attitude about 6 years ago that I’ve downsized my involvement in Marvel, and have only recently started going back. So I’m really not that aware about what’s going o in Marvel.
But, although my first reaction to the story was that it sounds like the worse ide ever, as I was scrolling I stated to feel that there are some good stories that could be told from that angle, if you look at it from a storytelling point of view rather than a fan point of view of ‘oh my god they changed spidy. You bášŧárdš.”
In this day an age of celebraty, paparazzi, reality TV, blogs, spyware, webcams etc. the problems associated with maintaining a secret identity may be a little outdated. The problems now seem to have to do more with how to maintain privacy at all. So maybe it’s a storyline worth exploring. I’m waiting to jear what PAD says.
Still, good or bad, this story wil probably be reversed sooner or later like most hyperactive changes.
Before Identity Crisis came out, I was often thinking about whether secret identities were passe in general, but then I saw that there are still good stories that can be told about maintaining such secrets and the prices they pay for it.
Sadly, Civil War looks like Joe Q saw all the buzz DC got from Identity Crisis and said, “hey, let’s do a story about secret IDs!” I haven’t been buying much Marvel lately, just one or two titles, but I decided to pick up Civil War. So far, I’m not that impressed. Joe Q’s pattern at EIC has been all style and no substance and Civil War looks like more of the same.
Compared to the very personal story of Identity Crisis, the disaster that triggers Civil War is too remote with a bunch of anonymous dead. It looks like another attempt by Joey to cash in on 9/11. Other things don’t make any sense. I’m sorry, but after guarding his secret so carefully for so long, I can’t swallow Peter just tossing it away because of his new found friendship.
And what is the logic of putting Captain America on the opposite side? He hasn’t even maintained the pretense of a secret ID for several years. He even voluntarily unmasked after 9/11 in another exploitative story. It just seems like someone (cough, Warren Ellis, cough) who doesn’t get either character decided that Steve and Tony have to be on opposite sides of every issue.
It’s sad, but as much as I love many of Marvel’s characters, it doesn’t look like I’ll be buying more than one or two titles so long as Joey’s at the helm.
I hate this idea. Not only because it goes against the last 35 years of Spidey stories, AND because it is sooooooo out of character for him (his big reason for having a secret identity has been to protect his family. Now what?), but also because this plot point is so 5 years ago. I mean, who hasn’t revealed their secret identity in the past 5 years? Marvel used to be the company that led the industry witrh ideas and events. Now it seems like they are stuck spinning their wheels.
I stopped reading monthly comics about two years ago, but the habit is in my blood, so I still keep abreast of what’s going on via online resources. When I read about this and saw the page of Peter’s announcement, I was floored. This story, this act, that one page made me want to run to my LCS and put the rest of the series on a hold list.
I have so much faith in the creators working on this story that they’ll be able to use this as a spring-board for so many great and new stories for Spider-Man.
I hope Stark has good lawyers, because what JJJ will do to Peter for faking all those years of supposedly taking photos of Spidey will not be fun. And he just might have a case. He didn’t take the photos, the camera’s self-timer did.
Well, all Peter has do to square everything away with 3J is say three magic words:
“Bugle Exclusive Interview”
John raised some interesting points up there. Peter DIDN’T want to do it. But MJ and Aunt May said that he should. The two most important(living) people in his life told him to do it. Now, one of the reasons I’ve always related to the Marvel characters is they have internal dialogue, a sense of (Not to be too trite) responsibility. Their decisions way on them. The characters evolve.
I’m gonna go to the opposite side here and say I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with this. C’mon, Peter Parker is Spider-Man? Seems like half the other heroes already know who he is. So does SHIELD. But oh no, his greatest enemies will find out! Like the Green Goblin! Oh, he knows already. And Doc Ock. And Venom. And Kaine. And…
To see what I hope will be done with this, go back and read Daredevil’s last couple of years. He was outed and the storyline didn’t back away from the ramifications. It charged right into them and made for some of the most powerful storytelling I’ve seen in quite a while.
“To see what I hope will be done with this, go back and read Daredevil’s last couple of years. He was outed and the storyline didn’t back away from the ramifications. It charged right into them and made for some of the most powerful storytelling I’ve seen in quite a while.”
My point exactly. It has already been done (and done well!)! What is the point of rehashing plot points from other books?