Kath and I are usually on the same wavelength when it comes to television, but one thing we’ve always split on is “Family Guy.” She likes the series; I’m, at most, lukewarm. So I have to say I got a truly snarky amount of amusement out of last week’s episode of “South Park” in which “Family Guy” was skewered, a storyline that ostensibly is supposed to be concluded tonight (although, I dunno…I still wouldn’t put it past them to have the second half be no second half at all. The bait-and-switch of Cartman’s father is not easily forgotten.)
The great thing, of course, is that the storyline isn’t *really* about “Family Guy.” It’s about religious fanatics going completely nuts over things that are depicted in cartoons. An obvious shot at the riot-inducing pictures of Mohammed, and particularly appropriate for “South Park” since years ago, in the episode “Super Best Friends,” Mohammed was depicted on the show and it caused no stir whatsoever that I can recall. It almost makes you wonder if they’re going to reair “Super Best Friends” just to remind people that, when it came to visually lampooning Mohammed, “South Park” got there first.
PAD
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Super Best Friends is classic!! Seaman and Swallow – i bust up everytime!
i’m a fan of both shows. sorry you aren’t more jazzed about Family Guy but then, other than Robot Chicken, i don’t go for any of those Adult Swim cartoons either.
i don’t go for any of those Adult Swim cartoons either
Not even Moral Orel, Venture Bros., or Sealab 2021?
Barbarian! 🙂
One of the “…religious fanatics going completely nuts over things that are depicted in cartoons” also includes Comedy Central pulling the “Trapped in the Closet” episode because (alleged) threats from the Scientologists and/or Tom Cruise.
That’s valid enough, although I don’t think anyone is really concerned about Scientologists massing and burning down buildings or blowing stuff up.
PAD
I wouldn’t say a significant part of the episode was about scientology. The bit about Cartman’s plan to get Family Guy off the air probably was, though. I liked his logic that once one group gets an episode pulled, then the Catholics can get another episode pulled and then another group gets an episode pulled, and eventually the show is taken off the air. It works especially well since Catholics recently got the bleeding virgin Mary of SP episode pulled New Zealand.
PAD, thanks for reminding me about Mohamad appearing in the Super Best Friends episode. I’d totally forgotten that.
Actually, Scientologists down in Tampa regularly use threats and intimidation to get their way in the community. There’ve been several times when the matter has come to court.
As for Family Guy… I hated it at first, but I’ve warmed it up to it since. It’s nowhere near as good as South Park, though.
1I guess it has to do with perciption: In the Danish cartoons, Mohammed is shown as a bomb totting terroist. On South Park he’s a super hero. Maybe Muslim’s were less offended by super hero Mohammed than terroist Mohammed?
On a lighter note: I’ve never been one for Family Guy either. Now American Dad, that’s a good cartoon. And it has Patrick Stewert too.
The Bleeding Virgin Mary episode of South Park wasn’t pulled in New Zealand. They kicked up a big fuss about it and the TV station played it weeks earlier than they were going to, with more than six times the number who usually watch South Park tuning in.
They did say they probably won’t repeat it, but it doesn’t matter. Everybody who wanted to see it has already done so.
The best part is a group of 2500 Catholics just wouldn’t let it go and took out a full-page ad in a New Zealand Sunday paper saying they weren’t going to watch the news on another channel owned by the same company who own the South Park-showing one.
Because when ignorance fails, the only answer is MORE IGNORANCE! Yeah. That makes sense.
“The Bleeding Virgin Mary episode of South Park wasn’t pulled in New Zealand. They kicked up a big fuss about it and the TV station played it weeks earlier than they were going to, with more than six times the number who usually watch South Park tuning in.”
True, it wasn’t pulled before airing. However, caving in about never showing it again is still caving in.
Don’t sweat it Peter. I can’t stand Joss Whedon’s work. I got SO much pleasure seeing Firefly tank, both as a TV show and a movie. 🙂
That’s funny, I love Family Guy and can’t stand South Park. I think Family Guy is just about the funniest show ever (at least, it used to be… lately it hasn’t been that good, and the last episode was just awful), while South Park is just annoying.
But mostly I can’t stand Trey Parker and Matt Stone. They always come off as whiny áššhølëš in their public lives, and they’ve basically made their careers out of sidestepping around the fact that they have no talent in any area. Can’t draw? Ah, well, let’s just make crude, two-dimensional cut-out figures. Can’t act? Ah, well, let’s just do all the voices and make them all sound the same. Can’t write? Ah, well, let’s just write stories that do nothing but make fun of everything there is to make fun of, and throw in some fart jokes for good measure.
“But mostly I can’t stand Trey Parker and Matt Stone. They always come off as whiny áššhølëš in their public lives”
Strangely enough, tonight’s episode addressed that. They had lots of scenes of people bagging on Family Guy. However, they also had scenes of people saying “Well, I like Family Guy, even if it is just joke after joke. At least they aren’t full of themselves and always preaching.”
South Park bagging on Family Guy?
The Simpsons did it already…
Thank you, thank you. it had to be said
-The Baron
To me, comparing “South Park” to “Family Guy” is like comparing Richard Pryor or Bill Hicks to that guy in your dorm who used to turn every pause in any conversation into a chance to throw down his Austin Powers impression.
I mean, there’s something to be said for creativity powered by an active, working imagination and motivated by a desire to break new ground. I get the impression that the only real motivation of the “Family Guy” writing staff is to fill up 25 pages of script and go home early.
I’ve been lukewarm on South Park for years, after the original shock wore off. But they’ve actually gotten entertaining again in the past couple years, and . . .
. . . tonight’s episode was perhaps some of the best and most insightful I’ve seen in the series. The humor was just hitting homers on different levels. Yes, South Park is preachy, but in its preachiness its become that much more complex and daring. Not only do they rank on Family Guy, but they also use Family Guy as a trend-setter for upholding free speech. Imagine that.
I liked the ideas of this 2 parter, but overall I thought it was a little slow. Like they had 10 minutes more show than they had material. Although, the “will not be seen tonight” gag was worth the whole thing. PAD actually called that one.
What I found most interesting about last nights episode was Comedy Central refused to show Mohammed’s image, I don’t think it was part of a gag. Yet, they had little compunction about showing Jesus çráppìņg all over people and the American flag. I’m not offended by the image, I thought it was funny. I’m sure that’s what they were banking on, but it’s still a cop out on Comedy Central’s part in my opinion.
I guess it has to do with perciption: In the Danish cartoons, Mohammed is shown as a bomb totting terroist. On South Park he’s a super hero. Maybe Muslim’s were less offended by super hero Mohammed than terroist Mohammed?
Except, as they repeatedly have told us, no depictions, even positive ones, of Mohammed are allowed.
Can’t write? Ah, well, let’s just write stories that do nothing but make fun of everything there is to make fun of, and throw in some fart jokes for good measure.
Which, to be honest, sounds exactly like the kind of comment I’d expect from somebody who’s never actually watched South Park, and just assumes it’s nothing but toilet humor.
Which, of course, it isn’t.
Sure, there’s plenty of toilet humor to be be found (and, iirc, Terrance and Phillip haven’t really appeared since the “reunion” episode a few seasons back), but many of the episodes are, in the vein of Star Trek, pieces of social commentary.
Most people just can’t get beyond the swearing and fart jokes to see that.
I loved Family Guy‘s first three seasons. I didn’t care that it was derivative. (Hëll,The Simpsons themselves is derivative.) I loved its wildly surreal farce. But despite being thrilled when it came back for a fourth season, I was really disappointed with it. It’s just not as funny, the characters appear to have been assassinated, and that Stewie Griffin movie put me to sleep. I stopped watching it regularly.
Peter David: That’s valid enough, although I don’t think anyone is really concerned about Scientologists massing and burning down buildings or blowing stuff up.
Luigi Novi: No, but according to their Fair Game policy, they can do lots of other stuff. (Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29 and http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html.)
Robert Fuller: Can’t write? Ah, well, let’s just write stories that do nothing but make fun of everything there is to make fun of…
Luigi Novi: And what exactly is wrong with that? It’s called satire.
Andy Ihnatko: To me, comparing “South Park” to “Family Guy”…
Luigi Novi: ????? Who here compared the two?
“Which, to be honest, sounds exactly like the kind of comment I’d expect from somebody who’s never actually watched South Park, and just assumes it’s nothing but toilet humor.”
Where did I say that it’s nothing but toilet humor? For that matter, if I had never seen it, why would I assume it’s nothing but toilet humor? I could just as easily assume it’s nothing but interpretive dance. But, yes, there is a lot of toilet humor, and I know this because I’ve seen the show. And the movie (which I liked marginally better than the show, mostly because of the musical numbers).
“And what exactly is wrong with that? It’s called satire.”
I require more from a TV show if I’m going to invest my time in it. Like good characters that I care about, or humor that’s genuinely funny and witty and not just sardonic.
Where did I say that it’s nothing but toilet humor?
Alright, that was excessively interpreted from your comment about ‘fart jokes’.
But I just don’t get how people can say they can’t write, draw (considering the show is CG, and only the original, pilot episode was done with cutouts the hard way – they even had the boys do this in a Christmas episode), or act.
Apparently, they can write, because they’ve been nominated for several Emmy’s, just won a Peabody.
I could care less about the acting, but the voices have never bothered me.
It’s just my opinion, but I think you entirely miss the point of the show. But then, alot of people do.
Like good characters that I care about, or humor that’s genuinely funny and witty and not just sardonic.
Ironically, IMHO, Family Guy lacks all of the above, which is why I’ve never been a fan of it.
American Dad, though, is pretty funny.
Heh, and I hate American Dad.
“But I just don’t get how people can say they can’t write, draw (considering the show is CG, and only the original, pilot episode was done with cutouts the hard way – they even had the boys do this in a Christmas episode), or act.”
Yes, but do Trey and Matt draw it themselves? Even if they did, it doesn’t look like it takes a lot of talent. But that’s not really a complaint about the show itself, I was just commenting on the lack of talent of those two guys, and how they’ve managed to work around that little problem.
As for writing, I’m not just talking about SP. Team America was also poorly written, in my opinion (it was funny for the first 20 minutes or so, and then it just became a pointless mess). But obviously I haven’t seen every episode of SP, or even most of them, so there very well could be some good writing in there that I’m missing.
“I was just commenting on the lack of talent of those two guys”
Your wording is a little confusing. There would probably be less argument if you just said they lacked “artistic talent”. Since nobody is tuning in for the art, people would have just said “well, duh” and moved on.
As for the writing, I disagree. I think the writing on SP is quite good, and I thought that Team America was good all the way through. I think that’s just a case of different things appealing to different people.
“Your wording is a little confusing.”
It’s really not. I meant what I said, word for word. I don’t think they’re talented. In any way. Period.
Oh I see. You were just wrong.
🙂
I do wonder how many of the people who claim that Matt and Trey can’t write, or aren’t funny, have seen the brilliantly sick “Cannibal – the Musical!” It’s a marvelous little send-up of the Donner Party, and Alferd Packer’s murder trial afterward.
I think my favorite bit in it is the fudge gag – it’s got about the longest set-up I’ve ever seen for a one-liner. (Briefly: the Donner Party stops to get supplies at the last town before hitting the Rockies, and one of the party members is delighted to find fudge at the general store. He buys several pounds. The fudge is alluded to a few times over the next several days of travel. Finally, as they’re sitting around a campfire one night, and Alferd has been discussing the loss of the love of his life, the party member tries to make a consoling offer. “Fudge, Packer?” [It has to be said aloud for full effect.])
“I do wonder how many of the people who claim that Matt and Trey can’t write, or aren’t funny, have seen the brilliantly sick “Cannibal – the Musical!” “
OK, now *that*, I hated. Passionately. The only part that was funny to me was when one of them started singing “Let’s build a snowman” for the second time and someone shot him. But that was more because I hated them all so much that I was glad someone died.
Orgasmo was fairly funny, though. Baseketball was OK, too.
Yes, but do Trey and Matt draw it themselves? Even if they did, it doesn’t look like it takes a lot of talent.
Umm, I’m betting that most show creators don’t draw most of their own shows.
Drawing the Simpsons doesn’t take a lot of talent either, but that doesn’t detract from the entertainment the show provides (well, at least when I used to watch it).
I guess what I’m saying is: quit getting so hung up over how the show looks. 🙂
One of the greatest things about South Park is that, being CG, the shows can be done very quickly. So, they really can do “ripped from the headlines” stories.
Anybody remember little Elias Gonzales, the kid who was sent back to Cuba? And the photo that was taken of the SWAT guy or whatever holding the gun while reaching to take the kid away from a family member in a closet?
Literally, like two days after that, South Park had an episode about Romanian quintuplets who were taken away, with a duplicate scene of the quintuplets being taken away by armed SWAT guys. Bit for bit.
I just recently rewatched the episode where the boys play ninja, and besides making fun of all the crappy Japanese anime out there (with appropriate Engrish song lyrics), the episode was commentary on how nudity freaks the hëll out of this country, while violence is all but acceptable.
But, nah, they can’t write. Nope. 🙂
Anybody remember little Elias Gonzales, the kid who was sent back to Cuba?
Nitpicking, it’s Elian Gonzales. But, yeah, South Park’s take on those events were just one example of how quickly they can do inspired-by-the-headlines events.
Nitpicking, it’s Elian Gonzales.
Oops. Yeah, I should’ve looked that one up.
I’m watching the episodes now – halfway through the 2nd part.
It’s easy to say it’s just going after Muslims and Family Guy in general, but man, it gets shots at everybody as usual: Simpsons, Bush, bad television writing, the fact that this country as a whole keeps its collective head in the sand, and general intolerance by various groups toward some tv shows. And, of course, they make fun of themselves.
Absolutely bloody brilliant.
Umm, I’m betting that most show creators don’t draw most of their own shows.
Drawing the Simpsons doesn’t take a lot of talent either, but that doesn’t detract from the entertainment the show provides (well, at least when I used to watch it).
I guess what I’m saying is: quit getting so hung up over how the show looks. 🙂
Doesn’t anyone actually read what I write? Read the rest of the paragraph:
“But that’s not really a complaint about the show itself, I was just commenting on the lack of talent of those two guys, and how they’ve managed to work around that little problem.”
Doesn’t anyone actually read what I write?
You say they can’t write, can’t act, and can’t draw.
You apparently find nothing redeeming about the show, but then say that the way the show looks isn’t actually a complaint? It sounds like a complaint to me. But that’s just my opinion.
Maybe I just can’t figure out which side of this you’re actually on: the “I hate everything about it because I hate Parker & Stone” side or the “it just doesn’t appeal to me” side. 🙂
I’m on the “it just doesn’t appeal to me AND, incidentally, I hate Parker and Stone” side (well, hate is a strong word). My original point was simply that they created a cartoon without actually being good animators, voice actors, or writers, and that the show (or the pilot anyway) was essentially the work of two guys who had no business making a professional cartoon. However, the lack of animation talent doesn’t really bother me. It’s simply a symptom of their overall lack of talent.
Does that make sense?
Incidentally, I want to like the show, because I’m a big fan of satire. It’s just that nothing I’ve seen of it has made me think, “Man, that’s great satire,” or “Hey, that’s clever.” It all seems very obvious and heavy-handed to me. But I’m still willing to give it a chance to win me over.
Does that make sense?
Yep. 🙂
It all seems very obvious and heavy-handed to me.
Which, for me, is why I enjoy the show so much: i know it’s generally very obvious and heavy-handed, but I think it works perfect. Even more so because some of the people they end up targetting (regardless of race, religion, etc) still fail to notice.
I mean, one of my favorites from the series is the episode with the Special Olympics, and Jimmy (one of the handicapped kids) starts using steroids. Then at the end he admits what he did while going off about how athletes who use steroids are all pûššìëš, himself included – all the while they’re showing shots of characters that are supposed to be Jason Giambi, Mark McGwire, and Barry Bonds.
Heavy-handed? Certainly. But well worth it usually. 🙂
Personally, I have mixed feelings about South Park. Little (if anything at all) outside of S.P. has impressed me at all about Stone and Parker; and I have no liking of bathroom humor AT ALL. So, some of South Park I really wouldn’t watch at all… but still, I have found some of it to actually make – oddly enough, maybe – some clever and insightful points. If you want to see it at its most intelligent, Robert Fuller, I (as someone who has only seen some episodes of the show, and heard about some of the others, so someone without exactly encyclopedic knowledge of it) would suggest the Terri Schiavo episode. Released in the midst of the final blowup of that controversy, the episode – with Kenny in a vegetative state (after briefly going to Heaven) – impressed me with its commentary on that issue. Now, I don’t remember the exact name of that ep, or know if its season is on DVD yet (usefully of me…); but if you come across it, I think I would recommend that episode of South Park as an example of the show at its best. If you don’t find anything at all impressive in that one, I don’t know that you will in the series. 🙂
(For what it’s worth, regarding Family Guy: my wife had a phase where she watched it often, though at this point we haven’t seen it in several months. I did enjoy some of it, but I came to the conclusion that – at least at this point – the ONLY purpose of that show is “What can we get away with?” I see no other purpose, no attempt at any kind of a point at all, in the show, in my imcomplete observation of it, anyway.)
South Park can be good..can be bad…I have a tendency to get annoyed with Trey and Matt’s nihilsm approach, where every side is just a bunch of #@$!@@
I thouht the final to Cartoon Wars not bad. The Terrance and Philip opening was brilliant–I would have liked the Slippery slope argumeent that wins Bart Simpson over to be a bit more pointed out.
An additonal irony to the show, a Christian group was saying that Trey and Matt should have quit over the censoring issue out of principle. It’s funny that they don’t give a dámņ about principle, they just don’t like the show…must be the Chruch of Cartman.
South Park can be good..can be bad…I have a tendency to get annoyed with Trey and Matt’s nihilsm approach, where every side is just a bunch of #@$!@@
I thouht the final to Cartoon Wars not bad. The Terrance and Philip opening was brilliant–I would have liked the Slippery slope argumeent that wins Bart Simpson over to be a bit more pointed out.
An additonal irony to the show, a Christian group was saying that Trey and Matt should have quit over the censoring issue out of principle. It’s funny that they don’t give a dámņ about principle, they just don’t like the show…must be the Chruch of Cartman.
You can’t be 35181 serious?!?