I think I speak for most New Yorkers when I say–without the slightest intention of sour grapes–good. One less thing to worry about.
PAD
I think I speak for most New Yorkers when I say–without the slightest intention of sour grapes–good. One less thing to worry about.
PAD
• 
I just have no idea how the ehck they’re gonna hold the Summer Olympics in Rainy Ole London?
“You see, Chet, we were going to do the marathon race in dowtown London, but the Thames River overflowed with all the rain so the competors are running through the Chunnel instead.
“Right-o, I say. Jolly good. Tea and crumpets, anyone?”
R. Maheras:
“no mitts are the norm…”
I knew our allegiance was destined to be only temorary.
Craig J. Ries: We just had the Summer Olympics in ’96, so we didn’t need ’em again this soon anyways.
Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?
WarrenSJonesIII: We can always try again in 2012.
Luigi Novi: For what? We were talking about 2012. Or did you mean an Olympics further in the future?
“Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?”
Depends on your definition. When was the last time a city in Africa hosted the Olympics?
Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?
London has hosted twice before: 1908 and 1948, iirc.
So, yes, when there are a hundred other cities that deserves the rewards (or hassles, depending on pov) of an Olympic games, the USA can wait for once.
Mr. David,
Seconded.
I live in Philadelphia, several blocks away from the Art Museum.
My neighbors and I were NOT looking forward to Live 8.
Will, and any other Whovians out there.
If you have access to satelite, check out CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Company on Sundays between 5:00 central. They’re running the episodes
Back around ’95 or ’96, Bill Brickle had an idea for bumper stickers that would say “Don’t Blame Me — I Voted For Athens”, but we never managed to produce any.
Kate has a t-shirt that shows a parody of “Izzy”, the ’96 mascot, taking a whiz, with a caption that reads “If you’re done with my city, May I have it back?”
While it would have been potentially cool to have had the Olympics so close (We like watchin’ ’em and I’m a freelance cameraman/editor, so that could’ve been a nice bit o’ coin) all we would’ve heard was about the security. And Mitch, my sister and her husband used to live in that neighborhood, and they were sining the high praises that they don’t anymore because of Live 8.
And Jerome–I come from a small town, lived here since I was five, and no one remembers me or wants to know anything about anyone else. Being proud of where you were born is like being proud of being born a bipedal entity with reasonably advanced cranial development. You had no control over it, and chances are that you would’ve been nearly the same person if you’d been born anyplace else under similar conditions. I, for one, take tremendous pride in my family and the fact that we’re getting OUT of this neighborhood to somewhere a little less shallow.
BBayliss,
I was not the one who started using derogatory adjectives to describe people. That would be you.
But I guess it’s easier hurling insults than coming up with intelligent statements instead of off-the-cuff nonsense.
“When was the last time a city in Africa hosted the Olympics?”
Whle this may have made you feel all warm and tingly while emphasizing your supposed point that the U.S./North America gets a disproportionate amount of Olympic Games (and everything else, I guess), can you answer a serious question:
When was the last time a city in Africa put in a serious bid? Do you even know if a city in Africa put in a bid at all?
Matt Adler,
BBayliss has no sense of humor, preferring instead to blast people BBayliss disagrees with, blast anyone who has a sense of pride in their local/national community as arrogant and stupid without even bothering to comment on or read the points they make in their posts and lobby for the 2012 games to be played in tranquil, beautiful, peaceful Sudan.
“good. One less thing to worry about.”
“Yes, heaven forbid we rise to new challenges. Better, I guess, in your opinion, to run away from them.”
No, better to run right toward them in as rude and obnoxious a manner as possible, as you demonstrate.
And you’re here again…why?
PAD
Craig,
Why would you accuse ME of being arrogant and ignorant?
Even if we disagree and the arguments get heated, I try to post here in a thoughtful manner. The only times I have gotten really frustrated is when you seem to refuse to budge from your talking points and address stuff I have raised.
BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is “responsible for this country having so many problems” simply because he has pride in where he lives. And if you look over my entire first post, you will see I meant far more than jingoism.
I thought the statement against Matt was a cheap shot, for no good reason, and I responded to it.
“BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is “responsible for this country having so many problems” simply because he has pride in where he lives.”
No, he gave Matt a jab for being annoyingly jingoistic in his post. Whether or not Matt meant it is a completely different subject. Did he take him too seriously? I’d say so. But the very same can now be said for your multitude of responses on the subject.
“Why would you accuse ME of being arrogant and ignorant?”
Apparently the obvious answer escapes you…
PAD
Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that “I’m not a North American. I’m a New Yorker” is “annoyingly jingoistic”? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said “F— London, New York is the best city in the world!” But I didn’t say anything remotely like that. I’m getting attacked just for being disappointed that my hometown didn’t get the Olympics.
I think you guys need to look at what in yourselves causes you to take such great offense at such a comment.
“I think you guys need to look at what in yourselves causes you to take such great offense at such a comment.”
Speaking for myself, I didn’t take offense at it. I know there’s a certain romantic attraction to hosting the Olympics.
But to me, it simply wasn’t worth (a) the inevitable eight years’ worth of wrangling, politicking, and arguing that was sure to accompany it, (b) the eight years’ worth of traffic tie-ups and mess that would be the result of whatever massive construction jobs–from new stadiums to new arteries–were undertaken, (c) the host of inevitable scandals and screw-ups that would ensue as various individuals inevitably try to line their own pockets, and (d) the weeks’ worth of inability to get anywhere in Manhattan (and likely the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens) without tremendous hassles during the actual event. It’s annoying enough NOW during the day with delays of an hour for the Lincoln Tunnel, the GWB, etc. I don’t even want to think what it would have been like in the months and years leading up to the Olympics, and during the Olympics themselves. And now I don’t have to.
To me an Olympic winning bid would have been, at best, a Pyrrhic victory. The prize wasn’t remotely worth the battle.
PAD
Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that “I’m not a North American. I’m a New Yorker” is “annoyingly jingoistic”? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said “F— London, New York is the best city in the world!”
Now see, that would have been funny, not annoyingly jingoistic. The other one wasn’t. Now, keep in mind that I didn’t take it the same way as BB did, but I can see how he did. So yeah, saying that it “came across as annoyingly jingoistic” is accurate. It didn’t come across as tongue in cheek. The real point of my response, however, is to try and offer you all some understanding of where BB was coming from. I got it. Didn’t agree with it, but got it.
“It’ll be impossible to get around London for the two and a half weeks of the event. London 2012? Bûggër and blast.”
Easily solved: Get the hëll out of Dodge. Come to New York, my’friend. It should be pretty quiet. Immerse yourself in Mets and Yankees games (they should both be in town over the period.) Come and see the latest Broadway shows. You’ll feel right at home since by 2012 they’re ALL be London imports. Get tickets to whatever’s being filmed in New York, be it Letterman, Daily Show or whatever’s around.
Either that or go on a cruise.
PAD
I hear what you’re saying, but to me, there’s something intangible about the Olympics that can’t be measured simply by the problems that come with it. It’s just such a special, unique event, that I can’t help but think it’s worth all the trouble. Just my gut feeling though.
As for the West Side Stadium, I think what people are missing about that is that it would bring in a ton of revenue and jobs to the city, which ultimately benefits the residents.
Just a couple of thoughts, not aimed at anybody in particular. Regional/national/whatever pride can be a good thing when not taken to extremes. Saying that such pride is “what’s wrong with America” may be simplistic and imprecise, but there is a grain of truth to it. What a lot of people refer to as pride is really arrogance.
“Pride” is what leads many people to still fly the confederate flag and refer to the Civil War as the “War of Northern Agression.” “Pride” is what has caused the USA to be the only country to refuse to dip its flag in respect to their hosts during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.
So, to sum up. Pride that lets you hold your head high and strive to be the best you can be = Good thing. “Pride” that makes you into either a strutting peacock or a bully = Bad thing.
-Rex Hondo-
‘Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that “I’m not a North American. I’m a New Yorker” is “annoyingly jingoistic”? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said “F— London, New York is the best city in the world!”‘
Now see, that would have been funny. The other one wasn’t. What I should have written, to be perfectly clear, was that you “came across as annoyingly jingoistic” in your response. That was actually my initial reaction, and had to re-read it a couple times to see that you were joking. It didn’t come across as tongue in cheek on first read.
Argh, the board messed up and I triple posted. Glenn, if you could delete my comments…
Knuckles,
“Did he take him too seriously? I’d say so. But the very same can now be said for your multitude of responses on the subject.”
Perhaps…
PAD,
“To me an Olympic winning bid would have been at best, a Pyrrhic victory. The prize wasn’t remotely worth the battle.”
This is an understandable point of view. If it had been said at the beginning of the thread, perhaps my original interpretation of your words would have been avoided.
In fact, I don’t know why you didn’t just respond to me the way you responded to Matt. It seems the only time you do respond to me is when I hit you the wrong way and not when I ask about Star Trek or make a recommendation on/ask a question about/ comment on your work.
What torqued you off so much? I didn’t accuse you of being un-American,call you names, use profanity or even go on at length. It was a one sentence statement. It’s not like you don’t have strong opinions.
In any event, I’m sorry if I pìššëd you off. If you don’t choose to accept my apology, I will find other things to do with my time. Notice I didn’t say “better”. I have found a lot of these discussions to be enlightening and entertaining. But you are the host and if my presence here is no longer desired by yourself, then I will just say, “Thank you. It was fun:)”
Jerome, the comment was “annoyingly jingoistic” because Matt’s statement was that he didn’t think of himself as North American, or even American – just as a New Yorker. And that, my friend, is indeed one of the growing problems in this nation – an increasing number of people don’t think of themselves as citizens of this nation, but only as citizens of their immediate locality. This tendency toward extreme parochialism is absolutely no help at all.
I am a San Diegan, a Washingtonian – and an American. (Also, a Terran and a human, but that’s another rant.)
“And that, my friend, is indeed one of the growing problems in this nation – an increasing number of people don’t think of themselves as citizens of this nation, but only as citizens of their immediate locality. This tendency toward extreme parochialism is absolutely no help at all.”
Not exactly new. I have trouble busting on Matt for thinking of himself primarily as a New Yorker, because at least he’s thinking of himself as part of the United States with no qualifiers. As opposed to the mass of hyphenate citizens we’ve got. “I’m an Italian-American. Asian-American. African-American.” It’s ridiculous. Two hundred years ago, people fought and died so we could have the right to be called “Americans” and suddenly everybody’s got to slap on places of descent as if being simply “American” isn’t good enough. And it’s not even ACCURATE. You’ve got people who have two African ancestors a couple centuries ago calling themselves “African-Americans.” Great. My mother came from Palestine on the continent of Asia, so technically I’ve got more reason to call myself an Asian-American than they do African-American, but people would look at me like I’m nuts.
And just for the record, it’s not “New Yorker.” It’s “Nuyawkuh.” One word.
PAD
“In fact, I don’t know why you didn’t just respond to me the way you responded to Matt.”
Well, let’s think real hard about this, Jerome.
Matt expressed his frustration centering around the thwarted West Side Stadium (which I personally think was a huge case of putting the cart before the horse, but hey, others believed in it.) And he said that he himself had been looking forward to it and was disappointed that it would never come to fruition. Perfectly fine.
Now…let’s see what you said:
“Yes, heaven forbid we rise to new challenges. Better, I guess, in your opinion, to run away from them.”
Since apparently I have to walk you through this: You just called me a coward. You just said that I don’t have the nerve or the fortitude to rise to a challenge. It couldn’t be that,in my opinion, the prize simply wasn’t worth the having. No…it’s because I “run away” from a challenge.
You piss me off, Jerome, not simply because you say arrogant and insulting things, but mostly because when called on it, you stand there doe-eyed, blinking, and saying, “Moiiiiii? What did *I* say?” It’s disingenuous at best, bûllšhìŧ at worst.
And now we’re off to, “Well, gee, Peter, if you don’t want me around, I don’t want to be rude and upset you by remaining.” God almighty, someone save me from the martyr syndrome. Here’s a nutty notion: How about you stay, realize that you’re being rude, and do one of two things: (1) Try not to be rude, or (2) go ahead and be rude but then don’t shuffle your feet and “aw shucks, you misunderstood me” when called on it. Because the fact is that I understood perfectly what you’re saying, and so do the other people who call you arrogant and insulting.
PAD
Actually, the problem (as it is in many such cases) is that, online, there is no way to tell from simple text what the emotional context is, given the lack of vocal inflection, body language and facial expression. That’s why God gave us emoticons. 😉
As to the original subject of this thread:
As someone who lives just a couple of miles from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I can understand why people don’t want to deal with two solid weeks or more of çlûšŧër-fûçk traffic. All the talk of the cash coming into the city is cold comfort when the whole west side of Indy grinds to a halt a couple of times a year. Besides, New York hardly needs an Olympic prestige boost.
-Rex Hondo-
Just to be clear, the problem referred to above was the misunderstanding between Matt Adler and others. A couple of other posts appeared while I was typing and I couldn’t be sure my intention was still clear.
-Rex Hondo-
Actually, I wonder if the problems with the West Side Stadium or even the United States’ current image problems had as much to do with it as the impression of a US Olympic juggernaut created ca. the 1990s. Holding the games in Atlanta just 12 years after the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics was a record for shortest time elapsed for bringing the Summer Olympics back to the same country. And the problem wasn’t helped by the fact that the more sentimental/idealistic followers of the Olympics probably would have preferred Athens to host the 1996 Summer Games (centenary of the first modern Olympic Games, Athens 1896), Atlanta does not have that great an image (to quote Futurama: “Oh no, Atlanta was so much more than just a Delta hub!”) and did not succeed in markedly improving it through what was perceived by many as the most nakedly commercial Olympics ever (the “Coca Cola Olympics”, as some cynics called them). Add to that the bribery scandal about Salt Lake City’s successful bid for the 2002 Winter Olympics, and I guess any US bid after that was going to be an uphill struggle…
Jonathan (the other one),
Thanks for your perspective on what Matt said. If BBayliss had expressed similar sentiments, I would not have reacted in a heated manner.
Well, i´m from Spain and here everybody is pìššëd about the London election. The plan, infraestructures and people support were very superior in Madrid than in London. What a pity.
And the Olimpic Games are the most important sport games in the world, next to the football world series (not soccer, please). People don´t care about the ridiculous baseball or american football.
Jerome, the comment was “annoyingly jingoistic” because Matt’s statement was that he didn’t think of himself as North American, or even American
If I’d said “I’m not a North American. I’m an American”, I’d have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying I shouldn’t be disappointed that NY didn’t get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they’ve been held across the entire freakin’ continent. And I’m saying “That’s all well and good, but I’m still disappointed that my hometown didn’t get it.”
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying “Anyone who isn’t in NY, I don’t care about them” (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I’m gonna be like “Sucks to be you”), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Jerome, the comment was “annoyingly jingoistic” because Matt’s statement was that he didn’t think of himself as North American, or even American
If I’d said “I’m not a North American. I’m an American” I’d have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying I shouldn’t be disappointed that NY didn’t get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they’ve have been held across the entire freakin’ continent. And I’m saying, “That’s all well and good, but I’m still disappointed that my hometown didn’t get it.”
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying “Anyone who isn’t in New York, I don’t care about you” (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I’m really gonna be like “Sucks to be you”), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Jerome, the comment was “annoyingly jingoistic” because Matt’s statement was that he didn’t think of himself as North American, or even American
If I’d said “I’m not a North American. I’m an American” I’d have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying that I shouldn’t be disappointed that NY didn’t get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they’ve been held across the entire freakin’ continent. And I’m saying, “That’s all well and good, but I’m still disappointed that my hometown didn’t get it.”
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying “Anyone who isn’t in New York, I don’t care about you” (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I’m really gonna be like “Sucks to be you”), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Also, condolences go out to the people of London. We’re with you guys.
Argh, triple post again. Glennnnn….
Dan Cox, budgie:
Are you guys OK?
***Matt: I tried to post this last night, but couldn’t get it to work.
I obviously didn’t make myself clear, and will blame it on the late hour. I didn’t take offense to it, but my initial read of the comment was similar to that of BB. What I should have written was that it came across as annoyingly jingoistic. That said,f you’d posted “Fûçk London, we’re New York Fûçkìņ’ City!” I’d have laughed my ášš off.
Matt: Ðámņ. They all took. And now you get to see all my different versions in their pithy, late-night glory.
Thanks, Matt.
Yesterday I was happy that London won at the end. I was thinking at 2012 my daughter will be 10 and especially because we are not living far away from London I was thinking how wonderful it would be for her if my brother from Germany could come over then and show her the Olympic games.
What happened today made me wonder if that would be really such a good idea. Yes, I understand the need not to give in to terrorism but when it is about your loved ones, this is not a simple matter at all.
At the moment I feel a lot of anger and sadness.
“It should be pretty quiet. Immerse yourself in Mets and Yankees games (they should both be in town over the period.)”
I understand the comment about the placidity of Mets games (that’s a joke, by the way), but when are the Yankee fans ever quiet?
Jerome Maida:
“I was not the one who started using derogatory adjectives to describe people.”
I said that there is MUCH stupidity and arrogance in the USA. You would disagree?
“BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is “responsible for this country having so many problems” simply because he has pride in where he lives”
I’m sorry you misunderstood. I pointed out that saying he saying he wasn’t a North American was no more than jingoism at it’s very worst.
Rex:
“What a lot of people refer to as pride is really arrogance.”
EXACTLY!
“football world series” Did any other Americans on here picture Franco harris running over Mike Piazza in the bottom of the ninth in game 7 of the World Series?
“football world series”
Did anyone (Americans and Canadians, I suppose) else picture Franco Harris colliding at home plate with Mike Piazza in the bottom of the 9th in game 7?
Whoa. Sorry.
I pointed out that saying he saying he wasn’t a North American was no more than jingoism at it’s very worst.
I’m sorry, who should I call in North America to come up pick up my garbage?
I just love the image of someone saying, “See here? Everyone who lives north of this line, you’re a North American. Everyone south, you’re a South American. Oh, and if you live near the middle you get the option of calling yourself Central American. Now go pledge allegiance, and don’t you dare turn against your continent.”
You know, I was all set to say, “If a bomb went off in Trenton, would anyone notice?” but after what happened in London this morning, that seemed a little tasteless. I hope all of the regulars on this forum who are Londoners are okay.
A few other thoughts:
I can say that my in-laws who live and work in NYC are all breathing a sigh of relief. Hosting the Olympics is a logistical nightmare for any city and for one as crowded as NYC, it would be insane.
Regarding the Salt Lake City bribery scandal: That was nothing knew. It’s an open secret that the Olympic selection process is one of the most corrupt in the world. The guy who brought the winter games to Nagano openly said he bribed several people to get the games to his city. The people of SLC were just inept enough to get caught at it.
Anyway, getting back to my in-laws, I talked about this with my brother-in-law several times. He was convinced (and dreaded) that the Olympics were coming to NYC. I kept telling him over and over again that it wasn’t going to happen, that our image abroad was so bad, especially for foreign tourism, and that the fix was already in. I thought it was going to Paris, but I was partly right.
I too wish to give my condolences to Britain and Londoners.
I said some time back that, after 9/11, nobody was truly safe, that everybody would be a target.
Sadly, the two attacks by the group claiming responsibility (Madrid, Spain, and now London) have only proven me right.
And sometimes, being proven right isn’t a good thing.
He was convinced (and dreaded) that the Olympics were coming to NYC. I kept telling him over and over again that it wasn’t going to happen, that our image abroad was so bad, especially for foreign tourism, and that the fix was already in.
So you’re saying there’s an upside to Bush’s foreign policy…
Not to defend Jerome too much, but Matt didn’t just say, “that he himself had been looking forward to it and was disappointed that it would never come to fruition.” What he did say was that people who opposed the West Side Stadium were “all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people.” And that’s pretty undefendable. Now, I’m on the opposite coast, but speaking as someone who has had THREE stadiums shoved down his throat in the past decade (yeah, that new hockey stadium built two years ago is doing gangbusters for the economy…and you know just the thing to make the Arizona Cardinals the bestest team ever? A several hundred million dollar stadium!), let me just say that stadiums do NOT help the economy…they usually are abandoned before they break even on the cost and the tax breaks. And then you have empty buildings just sucking the life out of a city. It’s bragging rights and caving into sports teams.