In considering possible storylines for “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man,” I thought of the notion of bringing in Spider-Man 2099 and perhaps even following up on the one-shot I wrote in which they met.
But I have to admit, I was gunshy. After all, I did a storyline in “Captain Marvel” in which we time-traveled both to 2099 and “Future Imperfect,” and it got me slammed for writing stories that required intimate knowledge of everything I’d written in the past. They were roundly criticized as proof that I was far more interested in producing insular and self-referential material instead of stories that were broadly accessible to new readers.
So “Exiles” announces a storyline going to 2099 and the world of “Future Imperfect,” and it’s greeted with excitement and cheers.
What the hëll–?!?
Understand, I don’t resent the creative team for going in that direction. Personally, I’m kind of flattered. But I’ll tell ya, if I do bring Miguel back for a drop-in on Peter Parker, I won’t be real thrilled the first time I read commentary claiming that I’m just recycling old ideas.
PAD
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All I can say to that, PAD, is f*** ’em if they can’t take a joke. If the past material services the story, go for it.
One thing I’d like to know from 2099: was the identity of the Net Prophet ever revealed? If it was, could someone tell me? I recall Spidey 2099 being canceled before it was. Otherwise, that’s a story I’d like to see covered in the new book.
Eh, don’t worry about the critics overly much. Those of us that have been reading your stuff for years actually appreciate it when you bring back a familiar face or two (and let’s not get on the topic of continuity, shall we? Otherwise, I’ll end up ranting about how Marvel seems to want us to forget that there are stories that are older than six months… ‘Course, I’m a big fan of continuity, so I’m a little biased, I suppose.)
Exiles is a different case scenario. They go to all the different times/realities on a consistant basis. Its what its about. Perhaps because of that, its more welcome there than it would be in a regular title.
Now, if Miguel shows up.. I’ll still buy the comic without complaint.
When you do any other Spider-Man, Hulk, X-Factor (etc. etc.) story, are you “recycling” the old storylines created by Tom DeFalco, John Byrne, Chris Claremont (etc. etc.) and, ultimately, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby?
Personally, I’m quite happy when you dredge up those fun-yet-forgotten characters like Miguel O’Hara, or add new twists to the “future history” of *any* franchise you’re working with — and I’m just as happy when you explore and build upon older themes laid down by those writers that you are following.
I think the general term for such methods is called “continuity.” Apparently, your critics are big fans of mentality that continuity may be sacrificed (early and often) for the sake of “blockbuster storylines” and big, pointless fight scenes.
Wildcat
As a HUGE Spidey 2099 fan, I would guarantee I would buy every issue. I did like the CM trip and how it answered at least one question I had from the series. I was very upset when the 2099 line got canned.
If you advance the character development in the story (and you do), how can it just be recycling?
SP 2099 and X-Factor are still my all time favorite PAD comic book series. So go “recycle” anytime you want. Your “recycled” work is better than most authors best efforts.
Iowa Jim
Please, please, please, pretty please with Surgar on top please bring back Miguel O’Hara. Forget Peter Parker, forget Ben Reily. Miggy was the SMan ever.
Yes, I agree with the previous post–Exiles’ whole concept is built around “leaping” from alternate universe to alternate universe. Its core fan base EXPECTS such crossovers! I personally think a writer should be able to do whatever he needs to find and produce entertaining stories, but I can see the other point of view that finds such continuity-intensive storylines to be potentially off-putting to newbies. Particularly an all new Spider-Man title that is INTENDED from its very concept to be “accessible”.
Screw the complainers. I read pleanty of comics that guest star characters I’m not familiar with, and it doesn’t cause me any problems.
Besides, if your name is selling the book, then part of the target audience is your fan base, and they would be familiar with your work. Especially major pieces like Future Imperfect or long running books like Spider-Man 2099.
—————-
Given a choice between Peter Parker & Migual O’Hara, I too would choose the latter.
I would like to see PAD do a follow up on SPIDER-MAN 2099. Then again, I would love to see WARREN ELLIS do Doom 2099 again! I dropped the Spider-man 2099 book when PAD and Lim left in protest over the firing of their editor. Solidarity brothers ( and sisters) and sisters.
My sentiment is reflectd in Paul Anthony Llossas’ post. Word.
What I find is that the people who do the slamming already have the necessary intimate knowledge and presume that those without that knowledge would be lost. I started reading Hulk on issue #422 (or whatever the second part of that Myth storyline was) right before Savage Banner appeared. Having to catch up and buy back issues was fun! Besides, although I didn’t know the WHOLE story, I garnered enough from the comic book itself that I wasn’t lost.
Back in the day you didn’t have Marvel’s PR department putting together tour t-shirts and whatnot. It just goes to show (and I’m not talking about Exiles here, as I’ve never read it) but if you hire someone to put a nice, red bow on a pile of crap, it’ll sell!
The Captain Marvel plotline required not only initimate knowledge of the characters, but also of plot threads that hadn’t been encountered in a couple years and in entirely different comics (Spidey 2099 and Future Imperfect, IIRC).
If Miguel were introduced without those entanglements, just with the basic intro info for the character, I think it’d go over much better.
There will always be people who moan no matter what you do. I remember plenty of people, including me, who were excited when Captain Marvel had the 2099 story.
Spider-Man 2099 was a great series, for the writing and because it opened my eyes to how great an artist Rick Leonardi is.
Hi,
You want to know my complaint with creators? Well, you are going to get it anyway. They seem to think fans all speak with one voice, which ever one they heard last. I’m sure there were far more people that enjoyed the story line in Captain Marvel than ‘slammed’ it.
I umpire fastball and I got put off the other day because some jerks behind me complained about everything. But, of course, they couldn’t see the plays from where they were from. I’ve gotten many many more positive comments about my umpiring than negitive but I still tend to dwell on the negitive.
SO, write the story you want, I’m sure most of us will enjoy it greatly,
Tom Dakers
Well, if it’s any consolation, I’m still not interested in Exiles. 🙂
I was also one of those that grooved on the Captain Marvel arc that everyone else slammed. It didn’t strike me as being as “impenetrable” as Joey da Q professed it was. If it prompted a reader to go back and pick up copies of Future Imperfect or Spidey 2099, so much the better. If Marvel could get more people shopping for back issues at their LCS instead of just worrying about their own bottom line, it might help keep the market on the local level stable for that little bit longer.
As for Miguel O’Hara showing up in FNSM, I like the idea, as long as the premise is sound enough (and given that this is PAD we’re talking about here, I don’t think that’ll be a problem).
Rob Markowitz: In Re: Net Prophet, I think it was established (or at least strongly hinted at but never officially confirmed) that the Prophet was “Justice” from the New Universe line of books, a title that PAD wrote for a little while, I think (though I couldn’t say when or for how long since I wasn’t one of the three people who actually bought any of the NU books).
I really liked the 2099 line (not the carp that MArvel JUST put out) and I’d be happy to see Miguel make another appearance. Justto let you know, it seems Spidey 2099 is popping up everywhere. He’s even appearing as a figure in the next Heroclix set. You can take a look at him here http://www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/marvel/figuregallery.asp?unitid=7789. Hmm… I wonder if the 2099 line is making a comeback.. LOL
You know, I’ve never had any problems with it when comics visit a future/alternate reality and I don’t know the reality. I’m perfectly capable of rolling with the story, and any time I’ve had problems following, it was because the story was poorly told — even people who knew the world being visited were lost.
I hate the fact that people can’t accept a sci-fi alternate world if they don’t know everything about the world. Not knowing everything is part of the charm, I always thought.
That said, if you toss in a storyline about Miguel, I’ll buy two copies. Toss in a favorable mention of Ben Reilly (I know, not your character, but I miss him, dang it), and I’ll buy four.
“impenetrable”
Sounds to me like “laziness.”
Here’s an option: present all stories so that there’s no mystery, no history, and everything you’d ever need to comprehend the story is all in the same book. So, I expect that every Superman comic from now on will have a recap of the destruction of Krytpon and Clark’s history. Ditto for Spider-Man…
Hmm, wait…didn’t comics in the 70s used to do exactly that? Have a brief recap paragraph at the opening to every book? And I bet at some point, an editor decided that, rather than waste that inch of page every issue telling the same story, just assume the reader either A) knew what the origin of the character was, or B) didn’t need to know every detail in order to enjoy the story contained in the issue.
And if reading the story prompted questions (here’s a shocker) they could…ask questions. Find others that might now the answers. Seek out back issues. Become *more involved* with the character.
When you get spoon-fed something, even something really amazing, you begin to lose your appreciation for it.
if you really want to be insular and self refrentual, have everybodys favorite mutuplying mutant privite dìçk drop in, that’l show em
I enjoyed the Captain Marvel 2099 storyline just fine without any knowledge of previous characters and plotlines.
Didn’t you make this blog entry once before, Peter?
(Just kidding.)
Seriously, I was a huge fan of Spidey 2099. And please make sure it has good art. Make sure Mike does that story. If he’s not available, having Rick Leonardi do it would be great (I just LOVED having Leonardi on a monthly book–his artwork is just beautiful). Christ Batista did a nice fill-in when you visited 2099 in CM.
Btw, Peter, I’m not really into Buffy or Spike, but I noticed that Page 12 of the June 19 TV Guide has an article on the Buffy and Spike comics, and even shows their covers. Is that the one you’re writing? They don’t mention your name (though they mention that Whedon isn’t writing them), but it might be a nice boost for sales. Good luck!
“Impenetrable”?
Nah.
Now, deadlines missed by certain nameless creators on the other hand… 🙂
I felt I really needed to know more than I did about Hulk history to understand the opening arc you wrote, which admittedly disappointed me. Or maybe everyone was confused. However, I loved the one-shot.
Echoing the mention of the expository paragraphs at the top of the first page, many titles these days (moreso in Marvel, even, than other publishers, for that matter) devote the entire first page to background and recap. I don’t think incorporating external references and crossovers is a bad thing. Hëll, a huge portion of Spiderman fans still prefer Gwen Stacy to Mary Jane, and the character’s been dead for how many years? (Just realized how unique Gwen is among comic book characters for actually staying dead, despite huge fan desire to the contrary.) Bottom line, it’s your book that someone trusted you to write about Marvel’s arguably most prominent character. I’d much prefer to read something you’re excited about than something you won’t get too many complaints over.
I think you’ve just reached the point in your career where you’ve attained sort of a critical mass of detractors who are going to reflexively hate everything you do — no matter what it is.
I know this maybe isn’t the best example, but I noticed this phenomenon first with John Byrne, right around the time he started doing the “Generations” books; Every new book he put out, no matter what it was, there was this contigent of fans who said “ah, he’s just repeating himself. His art sucks now that he’s inking his own stuff. He has no new ideas. Yadda yadda yadda”
I mean, sure, on one level, there’s something to it, but on another level… come on! As you pointed out in a recent CBG column, it’s really hard to write ANYTHING nowadays without someone claiming you ripped off an earlier work — especially in a medium as inbred as comics.
I was reading elsewhere — Newsarama, maybe — a post from someone critical of the new villain you’re debuting in FNSM. How much you want to bet that if you were using, say, Dr. Octopus, the SAME GUY would be bìŧçhìņg and moaning about how Doc Ock is so played out?
I’m with Paul Anthony up there… f#$k them and the horse they rode in on.
My old bosses comment was joke em if they cant take a fûçk. Either way stop reading the critics.
Actually…the Exiles Worlds Tour is pretty much a visit through PAD’s career….the only one of the stops he hasn’t written is the Squadren Supreme world. New Universe, Heroes Reborn/Return, 2099, Future Imperfect…
Oh my God. Please do this. Spider-Man 2099 is my favorite Spider-Man series. Seriously. At least the issues you wrote with Rick Leonardi on pencils. /fanboy
“I think you’ve just reached the point in your career where you’ve attained sort of a critical mass of detractors who are going to reflexively hate everything you do — no matter what it is.”
I’m reminded of the words of Reggie Jackson: “They don’t boo nobodies”
Re: expository paragraphs: The Flash has been *ahem* running one of these, usually below the story title, in each issue for several years. I don’t know how much it helps new readers, but it’s never bothered me as someone who already knows this stuff.
I felt that “Time Flies” was very much an exercise in self-reference, both in the positive and the negative sense. Positive because it allowed PAD to touch upon some really great past work that’d been consigned to limbo; negative because I couldn’t help feeling the whole point of the story was just to tie up years-old loose ends (ie: the mystery of Thanatos). I was a very big fan of 2099 and Future Imperfect remains one of my favorite Hulk stories, but I still came out of the Captain Marvel story disappointed and quite confused. And before someone uses the term “spoon-fed” again, consider that there’s a big difference between spilling your guts and providing basic context.
Exiles isn’t like that. Generally speaking, it’s a story that gets more mileage out of the setting and the alternative characters than resolving specific continuity-related questions. If they’re going to Dystopia, it’s not to find out what happened to Janis. If they’re going to 2099, it’s not to prove, once and for all, that Father Jennifer was the Goblin.
Personally, I think that’s a good thing. Marvel’s alternate universes tend to get VERY tangled when they conclude – do we really need a reminder of that horrid flood/Phalanx storyline that closed down 2099?
P.S. I think it would be lovely for Miguel to appear in FNSM, perhaps even as a recurring guest-star… provided he’d actually have a purpose in terms of the story. While I appreciated the gesture in “Time Flies”, I couldn’t help feeling there was no actual reason for Spider-Man 2099 to be there – any other character could have played his part, IMO.
So “Exiles” announces a storyline going to 2099 and the world of “Future Imperfect,” and it’s greeted with excitement and cheers.
What the hëll–?!?
PAD, it’s a totally different editorial climate. In 2002/2003 when you were getting trashed by The Powers That Be, could you have imagined them giving you the reins to even ONE Marvel flagship character, let alone two, as you’re on your way to now? So, obviously attitudes have changed. And for what it’s worth, I think most of the static at the time was from people who were taking a particular side in a very public conflict.
It’s interesting, at the height of all that nonsense, when your job was being openly threatened, you said “And even if I did become persona non grata…so what? No one in the history of Marvel was more fired than Jim Shooter. He was so fired, that his ancestors were unemployed. And now he’s back at Marvel.” (he’d been invited back to do the Korvac sequel). So, looks like you saw this change coming.
“everybodys favorite mutuplying mutant privite dìçk”
That sounds really hot. Do you think they’ll allow it in a marvel comic?
Here I’m playing devil’s advocate but…
It’s not like I agree with the oppinion that you shouldn’t use whatever characters you feel like would make a good story, Peter. But when a comic writer uses cherised old stuff created by OTHER writers, many seem it as a cool homage.
Now, when it’s you using your own old stuff, people see it as being stuck in the past, or morbid fascination or whatever. Kind of like Steve Englehart will stuck Mantis into whatever he writes, or Bendis always manages to include Jessica Jones or whatever.
Rene: And then Allan Heinberg comes in and writes Jessica better than Bendis has in a very long time… 🙂
I’d buy it if SM 2099 came by for a visit.
I’d love it even more if the Net Prophet came by and got stuck in the past, but I’ll take what I can get.
Just do it, you can’t please everyone. I’d love to see Peter and Miguel meet again.
Also I’d love to see Rick and Marlo on regular basis, either in Hulk or Spidey but that would probably cause even more complaints. 😉
As someone who jumped back to comics because of the 4-part “Time Flies” storyline, I definitely agree with most of the others here. Bringing Miguel back would please me, but it could quite possibly bring in other older (born-again?) readers, which I guess is the bottom line.
Re: eXiles – You should also keep in mind that the very premise of that title is “bouncing between alternate realities”. So going to 2099 can’t really be seen as violating their core premise in the way I suspect some people felt going there violated Captain Marvel’s core premise. Whatever they thought that was.
2099 aside, I’m more interested in the Future Imperfect world. I’d love to see a future PAD epic that centers on the Maestro, where the Skulls (or even the Kree) land on earth, laughing about the destruction of the human race, intent on establishing a new empire, only to run into the mean, nasty future Hulk.
If those Exiles folks are smart, they’d head off to the future created by PAD’s Last Avengers Story sometime as well. I still want to know what happened to Thor, Hercules, Thing and Hulk in Asgard.
Hulkeye
I imagine the news regaurding the upcoming Exiles arc is being greated with such excitement is that it’s Sliders-esc premise is built around visiting around alternate Marvel timelines, so I presume visiting the Future Imperfect and 2099 timelines fits in with the theme a bit better than most Marvel titles.
Still I would enjoy if Miguel showed up at some point, maybe to meet up with another hispanic Spider-themed hero.
The “Time Flies” story arc was the reason I started buying Captain Marvel in the first place because I saw Spidey 2099 on one of the covers. I bought every issue since that came after and picked up all of the back issues up to that arc. So at least in my case that story line gained a loyal customer to that series. Additionally, the story seemed self explanatory enough to me if for new readers to understand it had they not read Spidey 2099 or Hulk Future Imperfect.
Bringing Sipdey 2099 back would be a great idea, but probably not before issue 12. The title needs to find its own feet first, and if nothing else PAD might come in for less flack then.
I personally would love to see SM’99 return-heck I would love to see his book return! Maybe any possible guest appearence of him could pick up after we last saw the character instead of inserting him in plot lines from the series thus far.
Maybe the whole Phalanx/flood plot line was a huge nightmare caused by the Scarlett Witch 2099?? Who’d buy that eh? Nah- it would never work- nobody would buy that would they??
Ian
Personally, I’m hoping for Spider-Girl 3014. As for Spidey 2099… I say go for it.
I think the reason is because that is the Exiles schtick. They go from parallel universe to parallel universe, Spidey. . .not so much.
As for the Captain Marvel issues to which you refer, I loved them. Then again I really loved the whole Captain Marvel run (both of them).
While I wouldn’t hate to see Spidey 2099 in FNSP, I wouldn’t be sad if he didn’t show up. Maybe you could do that story as an annual or something (if it works for the Ultimate titles, why not the 616).
BTW, your second Hulk run has been amazing.
Hey, I didn’t start reading CM until the time-traveling storyline, and while I’m not reading monthlies at the moment, a Pete/Miguel story sounds great!
Do it! Don’t be a little Gurley-Man! DO IT! That’d be an issue I’d enjoy…
(I’m still waiting for Spider-Man 2099 to show up on the Holodeck of the Excalibur….)
“What the….Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Man 2300.”
“When it reaches 2500 sell!”
“The Captain Marvel plotline required not only initimate knowledge of the characters, but also of plot threads that hadn’t been encountered in a couple years and in entirely different comics (Spidey 2099 and Future Imperfect, IIRC).”
And, as I recall, all the required information was provided via exposition.