Yes, Cowboy Pete followed the stuttering beginnings of the presidential campaign on “West Wing,” suffered through the shark-jump-worthy fist fight between Toby and Josh, and even managed to find some of the episodes engaging in a hit-or-miss manner.
After much thinking, the Cowboy is ready to state his preference for the new President in the next season:
Cowboy Pete endorses Senator Arnold Vinick.
Half a year ago, Donna told Josh only half-jokingly that she was giving him six months to convince her not to vote for the Republican senator. Well, time’s up, and no one’s convinced me not to.
In the real world, Vinick would never be the GOP candidate. Moderate, flexible, compassionate, pro-choice. The notion of his telling the press that he’ll answer any question about government, but have a firm “no comment” on matters of religion, not only would NOT be the end of it, but would pretty much guarantee that his religious practices would be the ONLY question the press would pursue.
But this isn’t the real world, it’s the “West Wing” world. And in that world, not only has Vinick consistently held to the high ground at every opportunity, but I find him ten times more engaging than Representative Matt Santos with whom I’ve spent ten times more time. He will have a broader base of appeal than Santos, will likely be able to get more things done, and quite simply has the gravitas one wants to see in a president that is wholly missing from Santos. Santos comes across as an earnest lightweight, constantly being undercut or second-guessed by even his own lieutenants, not to mention heavy hitters in the Democratic party. He simply doesn’t command the respect that Vinick does so easily.
If Vinick is elected, does that mean finis for the characters we’ve come to know and love? Well, sometimes I feel as if we haven’t actually seen them since the end of season 4 (most notably Will Bailey), so it would hardly be a shocking departure. But Vinick appears centrist enough that he might well tap into the talents of some of the current “West Wing” folks, just as Bartlet brought Ainsley Hayes aboard.
Cowboy Pete supports Arnold Vinick and will be voting for him next season should the opportunity arise.
PAD
• 
Ah, the “West Wing” world, where politicians routinely sacrifice goals and achievements for honesty and integrity. (Remember when Bartlett told Charlie that if Charlie lied, for any reason, during the investigation that he and Bartlett would be through? Can anyone imagine Clinton saying anything close to that during Lewinskigate?) And now it’s even sucked PAD in, getting him to (figuratively) vote Republican.
So, where are the other shows to be discussed? Lots has been going on with LOST, there’s the wonderfully goofy ROBOT CHICKEN, the BATTLESTAR GALACTICE semi-season finale twist, heck even the end of JAG.
I can see what you mean, PAD. I’ve lamented the idea of losing Vinick next season. I like him better, but I couldn’t conceive of the huge rotation of the cast that would be dictated by his election (in mid-season, yet). PAD’s give me hope for a best -of-both-worlds solution.
James, PAD would would be votine West Wing Rebublican, not Real World Republican. Neither real-world party is as idealistic as their West Wing counterpart. That’s unfortunate, but it’s hardly surprising that the fictional protagonists of a show are better than the people in their real-world equivalent positions. Unsurprising, but not undisapointing…
I look forward to the episode where the M*A*S*H Veterans For Truth come out with details of Senator Vinick’s scandelous behavior towards women during the Korean War.
Of course, West Wing world should have a had followers of a Lyndon Larousche type interupting democratic campaign events. That would be histerical.
It’s unlikely that Mr. D will ever watch “Robot Chicken,” not with the little ones in the house and with him working normal-people hours. It’s up to overnight freaks like me to review it.
The most obvious thing is that the celebrities are making fun of their own characters. How much fun it was to see Joey Fatone playing…Joey Fatone? And to have Noriyuki “Pat” Morita ragging on his Mr. Miyagi character (in a funnier fashion than anyone else could, admittedly). And to have Mark Hamill give a kind of farewell to Luke Skywalker as he hears about Midichlorians…and walks away in disgust.
In fact, for a show that “appears” to be doing “cutting edge satire,” it’s no different than Adam West making fun of his Batman character on at least two episodes of “Hollywood Palace” in the ’60’s. No harm, no foul, nothing really nasty said. You could probably get Tom Delay to do his own character on this show. It wouldn’t be incisive comedy, harm his rep, or probably be any fun at all.
I’d rather see Vinick win as well, though I’m more of a democrat. The series needs a real change, even at the cost of some talented cast members. We saw that this season when the Josh campaign episodes were (to me, at least) much more compelling than the White House episodes.
I do think that it wouldn’t be too big a stretch for Donna and Charlie to get jobs in the new administration. Both are basically non-partisan talented people. Donna has friends on the other side of the aisle. Charlie would probably be the only person who would be polite and helpful to a Vinick transition team, and I could see that securing him a job. If Charlie marries Zoey, we could still see Bartlet on occasion. And I like to think that Josh would get a job in DC and continue to cross paths with Donna.
If Charlie marries Zoey, we could still see Bartlet on occasion.
I think we’ll still see Jed & Abby occasionally. I recall reading an early story on CNN.com stating that, regardless of which party takes office in WW’s election, their intent is to occasionally show glimpses of life for a former president.
Well, barring a Presidential pardon, either Toby or CJ is going to federal prison for leaking classified info – I’d bet 4-1 that it’s CJ based on her past disagreements with the President. So, that’s one cast member gone. Will is likely gone either way. Charlie has too much personal loyalty to Bartlet, so I think he’ll be gone, too. Josh and Donna are the only likely holdovers
I was convinced Vinick would win until Santos picked Leo to be Vice-President. Now, it really does set up a new vs. old cast change. Either way, I think this show is just about done. By making Vinick a libertarian Republican, it will quickly turn into the same show it has been. With a cast change over on top of it, it will fade away.
“With a cast change over on top of it, it will fade away.”
Not necessarily.
I mean, Alan Alda instead of Martin Sheen would be a major cast change, right? But I’d watch that. And certainly the new character of Annabeth is a lot of fun to watch. If a new slate of people is interesting and compelling in and of itself, I know I’d watch. Hëll, in some respects it’d be preferable to watching the previous characters no longer sounding like “themselves” since Sorkin’s deft hand on their dialogue is gone.
“Well, barring a Presidential pardon, either Toby or CJ is going to federal prison for leaking classified info – I’d bet 4-1 that it’s CJ based on her past disagreements with the President.”
Of course it’s CJ who did it. There’s no question. They haven’t even made an effort to hide it, going to that long, lingering close-up on CJ at the end of the previous episode when the info was first leaked. But I very much doubt they send her to prison. Very much.
PAD
I support the impeachment of Jon Wells.
Given the closeness of the last 2 real elections (electorally, at least) they could have Vinick win in a 2000 election style squeaker and maybe then get to explore some of the crazier possibilities that were brought up back then–like the election being thrown to the House and/or ending up with a president or vice president from 2 different parties. All of which could make having many members of the previous adminstration have a logical reason to hang around and help get the country through this unsettled time.
I agree that the glimpses of Vinick are nothing less than engrossing, but I think we’re forgetting to plug Santos’s experience as the Senator from Alderaan. I mean sure, having your finger on the button for the US nucular (see Prez W for pronunciation) arsenal is impressive, but without Santos we wouldn’t have instilled the leadership and drive in Leia to overthrow Emperor Palpatine.
Given what happened to Alderaan is Santos REALLY the man we want trying to limit the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction?
I did a wrapup of the season finale and a look ahead to next year in an edition of my column. It’s Item #8 in the TV section via this link: http://www.simplyjd.com/cpr/0200515.shtml
I detailed different things I thought could happen and what I would LIKE to see happen. Check it out why don’t you?
I’m hoping for Santos, but won’t be surprised if they go with Vinick. By the way, if anyone leaves the show before the end of next season, it could be a problem financially. The last report I read online said the entire cast was signed through the end of year 7. We do know that they will all be there through the election though.
I think we’ll still see Jed & Abby occasionally. I recall reading an early story on CNN.com stating that, regardless of which party takes office in WW’s election, their intent is to occasionally show glimpses of life for a former president.
Well, I get the feeling that, like real world former Democratic presidents, Barlett won’t sit back on his laurels and retire – he’ll go out and do stuff, like Clinton and Carter have done.
I’m hoping for Santos, but won’t be surprised if they go with Vinick. By the way, if anyone leaves the show before the end of next season, it could be a problem financially. The last report I read online said the entire cast was signed through the end of year 7. We do know that they will all be there through the election though.
What the news (generally) doesn’t tell you is that depending who initiates the people leaving effects how they pay is done. If it’s the actor than they get paid for the number or episode done. If the studio does it, the cast get paid a flat by the year fee. (So if the season is 24 episodes and they say ‘We only need you for 15 of them’ the get paid for the other nine.) That’s why most major character leaving a series episode are done AT or near the end of a regular season. The studios don’t want to pay the stars to do nothing.
Deliriously sorry to post so off topic. I reviewed the first eight episodes of Robot Chicken over at the Yahoo jump the shark group.
Tom Reed cited what’s right about the show, and mentioned one of my favorite sketches, Mark Hammill as Luke Skywalker.
But he also said “no harm, no foul, nothing really nasty said.” and I have to disagree.
I am not easily offended, being a lifelong free speech supporter. I rarely even notice the vulgairites in films unless it’s a wall-to-wall f***-fest like “Scarface” was.
But Robot Chicken has extremely offended me on three occasions. One I have blissfully forgotten.
But depicting the late Mr. Rogers as a killer was not amusing, and it was something Fred Rogers himself would have taken exception to if his were alive to defend himself.
And to borrow a phrase from CSI’s Gil Grissom, I have no respect whatever for anyone who uses the verb ‘retard’ as a noun. As was done in the Robot Chicken episode two sketch about lemmings.
In revieweing that episode I exercised my own freedom of speech and said some very rude things about the persons responsible – by which I mean the semi-celebrity who lent his brand name to this program.
I liked him in “Josie and the Pussycats”, I liked him on “Greg The Bunny”, I liked him as Scott Evil in the first Austin Powers movie. I understand he was popular on that vampire show I never watched, too.
But now he’s dead to me. Which hurts him not at all, since he doesn’t even know me.
It’s one thing when they’re the kids on the short bus. but once an old friend has a son with downs syndrome, attitudes change.
There are only a small and ever dwindling number of verbotten words left in the American lexicon. A few four letter vulgarities, some racial epithets, and that one.
Sorry to butt in. You can go back to talking about p*l*t*cs now.
Wah wah wah… so what if they use retard as a noun? It’s a lewitimate form…
So waht if the parodied Mr. Rogers as a killer, it’s so 180 degrees from Rogers, it’s funny, sad you can’t get the joke and enjoy it.
Grow up and deal already…
Napolean Park: I understand your need to be sensitive on that subject – and the need for other people to hate your sensitivity on it and start making anti-PC screeds. But that’s not what I meant by “no harm, no foul.”
Making Mister Rogers a murderer with a temper was only possible BECAUSE he was not alive. He did have a sense of humor (he liked Eddie Murphy’s parody of himself) but he wouldn’t sabotage his own character that way. No one would.
When you have celebrities parodying themselves, they don’t cut very deep. Adam West playing “Adam West” on “Family Guy” was pretty pointless. And the big point of “Robot Chicken” is to have name celebrities playing stop-motion versions of themselves, so their names can be featured in the credits and they can claim to be “animation voice artists.” (Like Mel Blanc, June Foray and the others who worked for years in anonimity were nothing; they were just placeholders until the “real actors” showed up to do their guest bits. Horse hockey.)
I would rather have a cast of unknowns do vocal imitations, and have some strong opinions about the people they’re parodying, than a simple “guest star appearance” that says nothing. It’s better to have Mecha-Streisand destroying South Park than a character voiced by Barbra Streisand flying in on fairy wings to brink Kenny McCormick back alive.
My comment when Josh walked up to Leo at the end of the season finale was “Look at that! They just nominated Ðìçk Cheney.” 🙂
It’s fascinating. The Democratic candidate is an underexperienced politician from Texas and his running mate is an old, unelectable wise man with lots of experience from previous Administrations. Of course, that would never happen in the real world.
I have to agree, Pad. Alda’s character is much more compelling than Santos. I like Vinick better. Even the staff he has around him appears more competent.
The dilemna is, should Vinick win where are the characters we’ve grown to care about? Well, truthfully they left at the end of season 4 with Sorkin and Schlamme.
Listening to the commentaries on the DVD’s it obvious season five did not continue where Sorkin had envisioned.
As far as the leak, has anyone considered Barlet himself?
>As far as the leak, has anyone considered Barlet himself?
That’d be a twist, but I don’t think it tracks. As President he could make the military shuttle public if he chose… I don’t think he’d be deceitful enough to leak it instead (to put political pressure on… himself?) and then angrily start a witchhunt for the leaker.
Toby is a possibility though. His brother was an astronaut. He said he brother wouldn’t support that, but he isn’t his brother.
Catori: I’m absolutely convinced it was Bartlet, personally. Not so much because it’s in character for him, as because he’s the only one who could escape prison for it, and the writers wouldn’t want to send CJ or Toby to the slammer.
As for Vinick winning over Santos — I think they’d both make fine imaginary Presidents, but I find Santos has more humourous potential, thanks to his tendency to escape his handlers, improvise speeches, and fly his own campaign jet. Considering our first glimpse of Bartlet was after he crashed his bike into a tree, I think Santos would fit in better to the tone of the show. I can’t see Vinick having a “big block of cheese” day.
Of course it’s CJ who did it. There’s no question. They haven’t even made an effort to hide it, going to that long, lingering close-up on CJ at the end of the previous episode when the info was first leaked. But I very much doubt they send her to prison. Very much.
I agree that it’s almost certainly CJ. However, they left the door open for Toby (“Don’t ask me what I would insist upon”). The non-effort to hide it may just be misdirection on the part of the writers.
But I SERIOUSLY doubt it.
A couple of thoughts:
1) The upcoming election opens up a question I’ve been pondering for a while: is “The West Wing” about its setting, or its characters? Is it about the people who work in the White House on the President’s staff, or is it about Josh Lyman, Toby Ziegler, C.J. Cregg and the rest? If it’s the former, then it looks good for a Vinick win and what would have to be a pretty radical reinvention of the cast of the show (sort of like what happened in the last year of the Practice, but bigger). If it’s the latter, then we should expect a Santos win and much of the cast sticking around.
2) Not long after his appearance on “TWW” was announced, ABC announced a holding deal with Jimmy Smits to develop a series for him to produce and (I believe) star in. So that might affect his long-term availability.
From what I have read, the writers do not yet know (or rather have not made up their mind) who will actually win the election. No matter who does win there will be some turnover in the characters. Either way it will be sort of a “fresh start” for the series at some point in the upcoming season. (Of course it may all depend on contract negotiations for the upcoming season.)
Regarding CJ leaking the classified information, I think the odds are high on an eventual Presidential pardon. Unfortunately, the whole Shuttle situation they were put is a major goof as shown in the Goof Section at TV Tome for the episode:
http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-189/epid-402685/
– Neil
How I wish for elections like this in the real world — where I might prefer one candidate over the other, but I would still feel content and in good hands with either.
Sigh…
Jeeezzzzuuss H. Christ!
It’s like, not even in make believe land will you find diehard Democrats voting for the Latino Candidate.
No wonder more and more Hispanics join the Republican Party each year. It’s like, how can you turn them down when we can’t cut a break within our own party (and they are so willing to give you the keys to the kingdome).
Well I’m sorry, but even though I’m a PAD-ditto-head; I still believe Matt Santos is the stronger candidate than Vinick.
He’s smarter.
He’s stronger.
He has charisma, vision and he’ll stand by his convictions. There’s substance there. If Santos was being played by Jimmy Stewart, we’d be all over this guy. For how cunning he is. And how he can discern what the true pillars of the new modern American Community should be.
But he isn’t Jimmy Stewart. So PAS isn’t going to vote for him.
He is going to vote for Vinick. A nice guy, who works hard (granted), but isn’t any smarter than your average politician. As a matter of fact, he’s a Flip-Flopper whose good looks and charm, gets him the pity vote; but in the end, still has to be set up straight by his Campaign Manager’s daughter.
It’s the old “Well, he looks Presidential”, argument.
Well I’m sorry, but if PAD is going to support Vinick; I may as well start my own Freedom Clock with the slogan “Don’t look at me, I voted for Al Bundy!”
😉
“He has charisma, vision and he’ll stand by his convictions.
He is going to vote for Vinick. A nice guy, who works hard (granted), but isn’t any smarter than your average politician. As a matter of fact, he’s a Flip-Flopper whose good looks and charm, gets him the pity vote; but in the end, still has to be set up straight by his Campaign Manager’s daughter.”
I don’t recall anything Vinick flip-flopped on but Santos caved in Iowa on the ethanol issue.
I don’t recall anything Vinick flip-flopped on but Santos caved in Iowa on the ethanol issue.
I don’t remember the ethanol issue. I do remember Vinick being all over the place with regards to the “religion issue”; and for the life of me, I can’t recall who/what his Vice President ended up being/representing.
My post was written with tongue firmly planted in cheek (and a hint of satire); so basically, I didn’t fact-check.
If push comes to shove, I’ll argue that my post was following a post about He-Man Action Figures having sex with Dolls (even if that’s not completely accurate!)
Besides, Donna is the real villain.
She was the one who sabotaged the “No MA’AM” grass roots movement at the Democratic Convention’s Floor!
It’s easy to be pro-Vinnick so far..we haven’t seen him exect in brief glimpses here and there. We’ve pretty much only seen him in his role as statesman…whereas, we’ve seen little of Santos as statesman, but a lot of Santos as “man”.
Vinick apparantly never noticed that the Bible contradicts itself until he was what, 40? It never occured to him that the laws are rather harsh in Leviticus? Good thing he didn’t read Exodus where G-d is shown to be a real vindictive bášŧárd (the sedar always reminds me of that).
ILike Mel Blanc, June Foray and the others who worked for years in anonimity were nothing; they were just placeholders until the “real actors” showed up to do their guest bits
Mark Hamill’s been a voice actor since at least the beginning of B:TAS…it’s pretty much all he does these days other than being Mark Hamill.
Frankly, I was rooting for Hoynes. Gravitas, experience, leadership ability and charisma. Just had this annoying habit of unzipping his pants too often. Sigh.
Frankly, I would like Vinick… but his rant mid-season about wanting to dismantle the U.S. Department of Education turned me way, way off. He might be the true compassionate conservative, but clearly he’s more “conservative” than “compassionate,” along with the far-righters who believe we should dismantle public education altogether.
As far as practicality, I can see Alan Alda playing a Republican for a while as a kick. But taking the lead on the show, espousing conservative values every single week and standing as a champion for right-wing America? Somehow I don’t think the very left-wing Alda would do it. Wells has both Alda and Smits on an option for next year, but given that Spencer, Janney, Whitford and Schiff have contracts through next season… I mean, Vinick might have picked one of them to go through his next term. But a moderate Republican with an all-Democrat staff? The disbelief doesn’t suspend that well.
No wonder more and more Hispanics join the Republican Party each year. It’s like, how can you turn them down when we can’t cut a break within our own party (and they are so willing to give you the keys to the kingdome).
No, they’re voting Republican because the Republicans are willing to give amnesty to each and every bloody illegal in this country, instead of trying to fight the problem if illegal immigration.
No, they’re voting Republican because the Republicans are willing to give amnesty to each and every bloody illegal in this country, instead of trying to fight the problem if illegal immigration.
I was talking about Hispanic Politicians/Leaders/Lawyers chosing the party from which they’ll launch their own public service/political careers from.
As far as the Hispanic vote goes, according to CNN (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html) 53% voted for Kerry; so it is still predominantly Democrat. Specially in New York, DC, Chicago and California as oppossed to Texas and Florida.
I don’t want to go off topic, so I’ll just say that the Hispanic community is very divided on the issue of immigration and therefore the “offer of amnesty” would be a pretty poor courting tool; and leave it at that.
***SPOILER ALERT***
Uh, folks… A couple of months ago Teri Polo was on “The Late Show”– promoting her appearance in February’s”Playboy”– when Letterman asked what she was doing post “Fockers”. Teri said that she had already been signed to play the wife of Jimmy Smits’ presidential candidate character on “West Wing”.
Teri went on to intimate that she was signed to the show for the next few year(s). Immediately realizing that she had just inadvertently given away the ELECTION RESULTS, she attempted to back out of the statement by sweetly stammering, “I mean, I’ll be on the show if Jimmy wins the election.” Which, of course, definitively gave away the Democratic PRIMARY RESULTS.
Anybody who thinks that ratings deprived NBC is going to let Alan Alda win the Presidency over chick magnet Jimmy Smits is not living in the same universe I live in. It’s all about the RATINGS baby– and NBC’s not looking for Ensure-fueled viewers.
“West Wing” quit being about story and characters the minute Sorkin left “to get his life together” (or was pushed because he was taking to long to write each weekly episode– costing the Studio mucho $$$).
“West Wing” is a great show and I’m sure I’ll be watching no matter who the next Prez happens to be.
I sure do miss Cowboy Pete’s take on SMALLVILLE.
Yeah, it’s a little predictable but the take-off on “Carrie” was fun.
I just watched 24 and that show is very cool, very fast-paced and I loved President Logan (kind of reminds of a certain other panicky idiot who’s President)
DRAWN TOGETHER- anybody see this? Something in this show to offend everyone, but you’ll laugh
too. Gotta love all those cartoon parodies.
Any idea when they’re starting the next season of “Drawn Together”? (If there is going to be another season)
I was talking about Hispanic Politicians/Leaders/Lawyers chosing the party from which they’ll launch their own public service/political careers from.
Ahh. Well, as a small counterpoint:
The Salazar brothers, Hispanic, were both elected to Congress this past November from the state of Colorado as Democrats.
Younger brother, Ken, was elected to the Senate. The older brother, John, iirc, was elected to the House.
So, not all Hispanics seeking leadership roles are running blindly into the waiting arms of the Republican party. 🙂
I was talking about Hispanic Politicians/Leaders/Lawyers chosing the party from which they’ll launch their own public service/political careers from.
Ahh. Well, as a small counterpoint:
The Salazar brothers, Hispanic, were both elected to Congress this past November from the state of Colorado as Democrats.
Younger brother, Ken, was elected to the Senate. The older brother, John, iirc, was elected to the House.
So, not all Hispanics seeking leadership roles are running blindly into the waiting arms of the Republican party. 🙂