…then Terri Schiavo has someone new and really interesting to compare notes with.
My condolences to the Catholic community on the loss of its leader, a good and decent man.
PAD
…then Terri Schiavo has someone new and really interesting to compare notes with.
My condolences to the Catholic community on the loss of its leader, a good and decent man.
PAD
• 
I’m a (very) lapsed Catholic and was often at odds with the direction the Church was headed – but I never stopped respecting His Holiness for his steadfastness, determination, and sheer force of will. Hey, you gotta respect any Pope who has his own comic AND can take a bullet.
I’m sure he is now enjoying a well-deserved rest.
And I must say, having seen a frail and sickly Pontiff for so many years, it will be interesting to see his (presumed) hale and hearty successor…
I tried to avoid both TV and Internet news the whole day since news broke out that he was dying. I thought it was rather morbid and annoying that everyone seemed to be waiting for him to die and be the first to report the big news.
Still though, he’ll finally have some peace at least.
I’m Catholic. Just a very bad one. Its sad to see The Pope go, but he was looking pretty pained for the past few, you know, years. So at least he’s at peace.
Good things to come out of this? It’ll be interesting to see a new Pope. Never seen that before. Maybe they’ll be some new twists to the Catholic system. With the dropping off of priests left and right, it’ll be cool to see how they try to solve that.
Another good thing – I’ve had apocalyptic bûllšhìŧ drilled into my head since, freakin grade school and high school. And I had this one dûmbášš religion teacher who was trying to tell us, “Oh when this Pope dies ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!”. “There’s a room in the Vatican with all the pope pictures AND THERE’S NO MORE ROOM IN THE ROOM!” Buncha 14-15 year old kids and he’s telling us that.
So, with the Pope’s health problems, my friends and my family are ALSO saying this stupid “Pope dying = End of the World” crap. So I told them, “if the Pope dies, and there’s no apocalypse in a month, you owe me ten bucks.”
There was a point to this story, but I seem to have forgotten it.
TallestFanEver –
As a fellow Catholic who has been keeping an eye on what’s been going on in the Church hierarchy, I wouldn’t expect the next Pope to be a force for change in the Church. The new Pope is going to be selected by a group of cardinals, of whom all but 5 (I think) were appointed by the current Pope. I’d expect a continuation of Catholic policies from the last 30 years in the next Pope.
The apocalyptic stuff seems to mainly come from the prophecies of St. Malachy. Supposedly written in the 1100’s and found in the 1590’s, if you think they’re prophetic then the next Pope is the last one enumerated in the prophecies and then the one after that is the one that presides over the End of the World. There’s a lot of argument over their interpretation among those who believe they are prophetic (let alone a lot of argument by those who think they’re fake), so it was fairly inappropriate for a Sunday school teacher to voice his opinion about them to a class of kids.
(Of course, I had plenty of Sunday school teachers who told me things that turned out to be disputed, no longer actual Church teaching, urban legends, or just plain wrong, so it doesn’t suprise me.)
There was a point to this story, but I seem to have forgotten it.
That you’re gonna be getting ten bucks…?
I may still have the comic Marvel put out about Pope John Paul II’s life somewhere. Who needs hyperbole like Battle Pope, Karol had an interesting enough life as it stood.
“I may still have the comic Marvel put out about Pope John Paul II’s life somewhere. Who needs hyperbole like Battle Pope, Karol had an interesting enough life as it stood.”
I remember this book was the classroom I had CCD (catechism class for those of us in public school). It must have come out in the early 80s. What prompted Shooter to publish this. I mean it was good but I think this and one other autobio (Mandela I think?) were the only ones in this series. I was wondering if anyone knows the stopry behinfd the comic.
Actually, I sort of like the Italian tradition of breaking into applause. If you think the Pope is heading into the afterlife, it should be a cause for celebration, not all this hypocritical breast-beating we saw here in the States earlier this week. What I want to know is, what are the cable news networks going to do without a 24/7 death watch to cover now? I think I heard something about an earthquake that killed a few thousand people (thank goodness for BBC World News) so maybe they’ll finally pay attention to the story.
And Peter, I was having a few of those thoughts about the afterlife a couple of days ago, but for a different person. I just had this mental image of Johnny Cochran showing up at the pearly gates, briefcase and all, and St. Peter saying, ‘I’m sorry Mr. Cochran, but before I let you in, I’d like to introduce you to Nicole Simpson and Ron Brown; they just wanted to have a few words with you first.’
Peter; thank you.
Re the new Pope–I suppose the safe choice would be an older Italian Pope, give everyone a breather, a chance to think about where they want things to go. A riskier and far more intriguing choice would be to aknowledge the influence of the African and South American membership by recruiting from their ranks.
Found this at http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050402/D897FNB80.html
I’d never heard this story.
When Wojtyla was 20, his father died, leaving him with no immediate family in a country under brutal Nazi occupation.
His name appeared on a Nazi blacklist in 1944 for his activities in a Christian democratic underground. B’nai B’rith and other organizations testified that he helped Jews find refuge from the Nazis.
Stories circulated after he became pope suggesting that Wojtyla was married during World War II to a woman who was killed by a Nazi. The Vatican denied the reports.
The pope himself made a teasing reference to the rumors during his 1979 visit to Poland. He abruptly curtailed a reminiscence of his family by saying: “Well, that’s enough of the past. I’m not going into details. There are a lot of reporters around, ready to investigate. Matters of the heart and youth should be left to God, who calls human beings at different stages of their lives.”
My name should probably tell you what I am (Irish, and what are the Irish? Catholic or Protestant. I happen to be from the Catholic side.) I find it sad that he has passed on, but I can’t find it too sad since he lived until 84, that’s longer than any of my grandparents made it, and they lead good lives. 84’s a good age to reach, and it sounds as though he went peacefully, what more can you ask for?
Anyway, my reason for replying to this at all was due to Bill Mulligan’s remark on how it’d be interesting to see the church promote from the African ranks. I agree, it would, but I also don’t think the church would be anywhere near ready to accept such a thing. I, in all honesty, believe that would seperate the church, maybe not break it, but surely shake it to its core. I know that’s a sad thing to say, we should all be accepting, but I don’t believe everyone would be.
In all likelihood it’ll be another Italian, nothing wrong with that, its just that the church is made up of more than Italians.
It would be interesting if they did pick an African Priest… Well Cardinal actually. If there are any.
Man, I’d love to see a wop Pope. Italiano represent.
(I’m allowed to say Wop cuz I’m Italian. Wop. Wop. Wop. Horray!)
LOL! I understand TallestFanEver, if they picked a mick Pope I’d be happy.
It would be interesting if they did pick an African Priest… Well Cardinal actually. If there are any.
I believe that there are 15 African Cardinals. Keep an eye on Francis Arinze of Nigeria.
PAD,
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. They are much appreciated.
I remember the Year of the Three Popes, and both JP1 and JP2 came out of the blue, so to speak. Anyone betting on papabili is making a sucker bet.
Also, what kind of pontiff is also making a sucker bet. The College of Cardinals thought they were going to have a nice, quick lull by electing Angelo Roncalli in 1958. As John XXIII, he had his own ideas.
I’m glad that an 84-year-old man who had Parkinson’s and has been ailing for the past few years is at peace.
[Posted by Joe Nazzaro at April 2, 2005 08:40 PM]
And Peter, I was having a few of those thoughts about the afterlife a couple of days ago, but for a different person. I just had this mental image of Johnny Cochran showing up at the pearly gates, briefcase and all, and St. Peter saying, ‘I’m sorry Mr. Cochran, but before I let you in, I’d like to introduce you to Nicole Simpson and Ron Brown; they just wanted to have a few words with you first.’
LOL! I couldn’t have said it better myself, Joe!
While it’s understandable for family and close friends to grieve over the death of Mr. Cochran, I haven’t read any comments regarding how his most infamous case succeeded in taking the spotlight away from Mr. Simpson’s alledged victims and focused it on his client along with the hypocritical “obits” that were published in local papers! When I’ve asked several people what they thought of the fact that little or no effort was exerted the murder aspect of the case, they either said, “Well, I don’t know [b]them.[/b] Ha Ha Ha.” or they spouted legalistic rhetoric as though they were Cochran’s law students!
Back to the main thread, I agree that it’s more appropriate to celebrate a great man’s life than to grieve over his death to the point of being extreme, as the press has done regarding several people that we “lost.”
If I’m half-Italian, can I make a half-joking remark?
I’m reminded of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry goes to a pries to complain about how his dentist became a Jew so that he could make Jewish jokes. ‘And this offends you as a Jew?’ the priest asked. ‘No, it offends me as a comedian!’
I read an article somewhere today, maybe Dallas Morning News, about the “front-runners” for the papacy. I seem to remember that most of those they were listing were 70+ years old already. Doesn’t bode well for a long term in office like Karol had and probably won’t mean any type of changes in current policies.
jeff
Seconded. I didn’t and don’t share the Pope’s faith, and as many people here know I certainly disagreed with a lot of his policy choices … but he also seemed a kind, warm, and decent man who did an awful lot of good works in the world. I respect that very much, and he’ll be missed.
As for his successor … I too think it’d be really neat to see a Latin American or an African pope. The NYT listed six people who were on the top of the “likely” list; only three were European. (Only one was Italian, for that matter.)
‘Twill be interesting to see how things shake out.
TWL
maybe George Bush could convert, and run for pope now.
… dámņ, I think I just scared myself!
JAC
I’m an agnostic, but I had a lot of respect for the pope for a few reasons. One: the man had, frankly, a staggering intellect. In addition to all the languages he understood, he was extremely well read. Two: his endorsement of evolution as being truth and not contradicting faith.
Of course, I also had some problems with him, but I won’t go into those out of respect.
Don’t recall the names, but I would love to see the African or Mexican candidates that have been bounced around make it. they would certainly be more representative of the modern complexion of the Catholic Church, and the African candidate especially would imply a broadening of mindset, and quite possibly have a positive anti-racism impact.
all of that is spoken as a Protestant, so none of it will directly affect me, of course. just thought it’d be a good idea.
and the other Marvel bio comic was “St. Francis, Brother of the Universe,” about the guy they named San Francisco after. as for what possessed (you’ll pardon the pun) Shooter to do it, i imagine that he guessed that well-done comic biographies of major Catholic figures just might, perhaps, have a slightly larger potential audience than, say, Spider-Man.
You know, for ytears now, I have felt a black man would be a tremendous choice as Pope. Many of the new converts to Catholicism come from Africa. Many religious people in America are black, and they would either be represented or possibly drawn to a denomination, or “flock” if you will, headed by someone who “looks like them”.
It would also bring to a boiling point across the world two incidents that are still seared in my memory…
1.) I went home (the Scranton area) from Philly (where I lived from 1997-2004). When I left, there was exactly one black person in town – a police officer, Officer Lomax. In the time I was gone, many more minorities, particularly blacks, moved to my hometown, called Carbondale. Some were just nice neighbors, like the family that moved in next to my grandmother. Many others, however, were “forced residents” by Section 8 Housing. Many did deal drugs, start trouble and/or refuse to work.
Anyway, against this backdrop, I went to one of the two Catholic churches in town. It was Saint Rose Parish on the Irish side of town.
There were many people I recognized. The whole town, to paraphrase “Cheers”, was a place where “everybody knows your name”.
The mass was unusually packed. There was a black man in church. It’s not that I was looking for him SPECIFICALLY but he was kind of distictive – not just because he was the only black person at this mass, but because he was in one of the front rows – which are normally packed to the gills – and he was alone. He had the whole row to himself.
The row in front of him was packed.
So were numerous others.
The row in back of him was packed.
So were numerous others.
So in this CATHOLIC church, peoplem were obviously ostracizing this man. He was new, he was an outsider, and he was black. Nothing since has changed my mind that that last fact was the most important of all insofar as the less-than-welcome reception he received.
I was sitting with my family ahead of him and made sure to offer him the Sign Of Peace during mass. Afterward, as my family was leaving, I made a point to walk over and shake his hand and welcome him to the congreagation and the community. He seemed so happy that I did so. He seemed happy, period. Yet, it dawned at me at this moment many would refuse to ever do so because A.) They were lazy B.) He was new and C.) and – perhaps most significant – he was BLACK.
I was appalled that so many “peoplem of faith” had eclined to welcome this man.
Of course, I was originally introduced to such hypocritical nonsense when a hateful, white-hating girlfriend of mine wanted to get back together because, among other things, she was “born again”.
She couldn’t stop talking about Jesus and how he had changed her life in regards to “cussing:, being hateful, etc.
But when I decided to go to her “non-denominational Christian Church” to experience her life, virtually nobody welcomed ME because the congregation was 99.9% BLACK. I’ll never forget how uncomfortable it made me feel that god -fearing blaqcks hate ME because of the color of my skin.
In short, I think an African Pope would do wonders.
If the most recogzizable representative of the Catholic Church were black, everyone would have to reconsider their beliefs.knon=denminational,
They shoild ve safe. i
Jerome,
There’s no more segregated hour of the week than Sunday at 12, I’m sorry to say.
I would be ironic if the Church, which get flack for being “stuck in the 13th century”, were to do something most modern states have not managed to do.
Jerome, I went to college in Scranton, was a member of the Scranton Jaycees for three years, and had a local girlfriend from Carbondale during my senior year, so I know what it was like up there. That said, I can also remember when the first black family moved into my little heavily Catholic small town here in New Jersey, right across the street no less. People on the block were very welcoming, but you always got the feeling they tried just a little bit too hard, and their smiles were just a little bit too forced.
I would be shocked if we see a black, Latino or third world pope in our lifetime. The Catholic church has always moved glacially slowly, which is why I’ve grown disenchanted with organized religion over the years. And having a father who’s a deacon in the Catholic church, that’s led to some interesting discussions at family get-togethers.
My condolences to the Catholic community on the loss of its leader, a good and decent man.
Ditto, and well said. I pray that the next Pope will be wise in how to hold on to the essential truths of the past while staying relevant to the culture of today.
Iowa Jim
My condolences to the Catholic community too on the loss of its leader. I didn`t know the Pope personally, therefore I can`t say if he was a good and decent man, only that I have serious problems with a lot of what he and the Catholic church preached in the past. Nevertheless, I am glad that his passing seemed to have been relatively painless and quick. He certainly had a full life.
Both is what Terri Shiavo didn`t get. My husband and me remember that also the Pope very much condemned the removal of her feeding tube – and I think it says a lot that at the end, the Pope refused to be taken to hospital. I can understand very well that he wanted a dignified death but that very much contradicts with the teaching that life has to be prolonged at all cost.
On the other hand, nobody deserves to die like Terri Shiavo – or to continue “living” in the state she was in for 17 years.
Betting lines on the next Pope: here.
I’m old enough to remember the two papal elections in rapid succession, but John Paul II is the only Pope I’ve really known. It’s going to be a little strange adjusting to new Popeness.
God grant him peace.
I also remember the two Papal elections in the same year (1978). I was at a summer camp when Paul VI died on Aug. 6. Then, at the end of September, John Paul died after just 31 days in office; and they started the selection process all over again.
I didn’t really pay much attention to it at the time (in either case), but I remember how weird it seemed, after a lifetime of hearing the line “together with Paul, our Pope…” at mass, to suddenly start hearing it as “John Paul, our Pope.” Of course, Paul had only been Pope since 1963, so when he died, only those 15 and under knew him as the only Pope of their lifetimes. It’s quite a bit different with John Paul II, who was in for 26 years. That’s an entire generation who only knew him.
By the way, if anyone’s interested, John Paul took his name from his two immediate predecessors, John XXIII and Paul VI; and John Paul II took _his_ name from his immediate predecessor. I would doubt, however, that the next Pope will honor John Paul II by calling himself John Paul III. Not because he wouldn’t _want_ to honor the late Pope, but because it might seem egotistical. It was different with John Paul I and John Paul II. The former wasn’t in office long enough to really do anything.
I’m sure there will eventually be a John Paul III, however.
It’s curious, though, that there have been 23 Pope Johns, and six Pope Pauls, but only one Pope named Peter (the first, Simon Peter). Wonder why that is. Can’t be because St. Peter was a saint. So was St. Paul. And for all we know, the first Pope John (who is himself a saint) named himself for John the Baptist, also a saint. And both Peter and John the Baptist personally knew the prophet Jesus, so if that’s the reason no one else took Peter’s name, then by logic there should have been no Pope John at all.
By the way, part II, according to an AP story I read yesterday, while the College of Cardinals traditionally chooses the Pope from their own ranks, they can look elsewhere. Apparently any baptized male is elegible, though I assume the word “any” comes with a few caveats. Of course, the last time, the Cardinals looked outside their own number for a Pope was in the 14th century. The rules were probably a little looser then.
As to the rumor that the future Pope John Paul II had been married during World War II, there would be nothing wrong with that, assuming the marriage took place _before_ he entered the priesthood. While a Catholic priest cannot marry, a Catholic who had been married and is now a widower, can subsequently join the priesthood.
Likewise, a married member of the clergy of another Christian denomination can petition to become a Catholic priest. Decisions are made on a case by case basis, but these clergy do not have to give up their wives as a result. They are the exceptions to the celibacy rule, though they can’t serve as parish priests.
I hadn’t known that until a few years ago.
But getting back to John Paul II, himself, whether you agreed or disagreed with his stance on certain matters of church doctrine, you had to admit he made a strong impression on the world. We can only speculate how different the world might be today if John Paul I had lived.
Rick
My husband and me remember that also the Pope very much condemned the removal of her feeding tube – and I think it says a lot that at the end, the Pope refused to be taken to hospital. I can understand very well that he wanted a dignified death but that very much contradicts with the teaching that life has to be prolonged at all cost.
Well, the Pope did not teach that life had to be prolonged at all cost. Many of the folks who struggled with the Schiavo case believed that there was a fundamental difference between extraordinary means–heart/lung machines, etc.–and basic care (feeding, shelter).
I’m sorry to see a recent article by a doctor who used the Shciavo case to argue for the killing of Alzheimers patients by withholding food. If taht comes to pass I’m going to have to admit I was wrong to back the removal of Schiavo’s tube. I guess we all have lines we don’t want to see crossed and that’s pretty far on the wrong side of mine (one reason I couldn’t get to angry with the people backing Terri’s family–they just had a different line).
As to the rumor that the future Pope John Paul II had been married during World War II, there would be nothing wrong with that, assuming the marriage took place _before_ he entered the priesthood. While a Catholic priest cannot marry, a Catholic who had been married and is now a widower, can subsequently join the priesthood.
I hope nobody thought I was being critical when I posted this unsubstantiated story. I just thought it was cool and would go a long way to explaining his passion in destroying communism, having lost so much to a totalitarian regime.
It’s curious, though, that there have been 23 Pope Johns, and six Pope Pauls, but only one Pope named Peter (the first, Simon Peter). Wonder why that is.
there is an old legend that the first and last Pope will be named Peter, so taking that name would likely really get the paranoid nervous. It would also set some pretty high expectations. I hope the next guy picks something cool sounding, like Sixtus or Neo.
By the way, part II, according to an AP story I read yesterday, while the College of Cardinals traditionally chooses the Pope from their own ranks, they can look elsewhere. Apparently any baptized male is elegible
Oh! Well, I’d better get dressed and make sure the phone line is clear. 🙂
Well, it’s certainly not my place to pontificate about the papable sense of sadness that lingers…
I hope the next guy picks something cool sounding, like Sixtus or Neo.
I give 10-to-1 odds that the Onion makes mention this week of a Pope George Ringo I.
TWL
Well, the Pope did not teach that life had to be prolonged at all cost.
I had seen some quotes from an article apparently from John Paul II, dated some time in 2003 iirc, that say that all measures *should* be taken to prolong life, regardless.
It was brought up mostly due to the fact it appeared that the Pope himself was likely to end up on such machines, and that his life could have been prolonged for who knows how long.
In all this talk about how dying allows Catholics to move on to “a better place”, I honestly have to question why people here are so hëll-bent against allowing their loved ones (ie, Terri Schiavo) to move on in the first place.
In all this talk about how dying allows Catholics to move on to “a better place”, I honestly have to question why people here are so hëll-bent against allowing their loved ones (ie, Terri Schiavo) to move on in the first place.
Believing in an afterlife doesn’t mean one doesn’t grieve for the loss of one’s loved ones here on Earth.
If there is an afterlife I imagine it is as different from this reality as birth is to a fetus. I’d like to think of myself prancing around clouds with my beloved dead but that is probably thinking way too small. So I’ll treasure each moment with the living. There will be time for whatever follows soon enough.
Well, the Pope did not teach that life had to be prolonged at all cost.
I had seen some quotes from an article apparently from John Paul II, dated some time in 2003 iirc, that say that all measures *should* be taken to prolong life, regardless.
You may be correct but the report by the AP states:
A 1980 Vatican document makes the distinction between “proportionate” and “disproportionate” means of prolonging life. While it gives room for refusal of some forms of aggressive medical intervention for the terminally ill, it insists “normal care due” must not be interrupted.
John Paul set down exactly what that meant in a speech last year to an international conference on treatments for patients in a so-called persistent vegetative state.
“I should like particularly to underline how the administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act. Its use, furthermore, should be considered, in principle, ordinary and proportionate, and as such morally obligatory.”
Given what I see as the immense growth of Christianity in Asia, I wonder likelihood there is of an Asian pope. (Especially North Korean or Chinese.)
I don’t mean to cast aspersions on anyone’s faith, but I wonder about the politics of the whole thing. What kind of Pope would most benefit the church at this time? (Desmond Tutu?) A Palestinian pope would certainly raise eyebrows (and hackles.)
I thought I once read that there was a specific advantage in choosing a polish Pope at the time they did, but I can’t remember what.
Ah well, let me know if they ever choose a Jewish Pope (why not; this last one wore a kippa…)
Ah well, let me know if they ever choose a Jewish Pope
Actually, believe it or not, one of the front runners had a Jewish mother who was killed in the holocaust. According to some tradition, if your mom is Jewish, so are you.
“maybe George Bush could convert, and run for pope now.
… dámņ, I think I just scared myself!”
Don’t even think it! You might give him ideas!
As a non-member of the church who was raised by two non-active members, I still have to say, I liked the Pope, any guy who rides in the the Pope-Mobile and blesses Ferraris is my kind of people… but seriously though, (Lord please don’t smite me again!) I may not have always agreed with his ideas, but his heart always seemed in the right place…
Ra!
In reference to Jon’s comment about Desmond Tutu, I’m not sure if *retired* Archbishops are really eligible for elevation to the Papal Throne, but it doesn’t really make much difference in Tutu’s case since he’s an Anglican, not Roman Catholic, and is ineligible for the Papacy.
In reference to Rick Keating’s musings about papal eligibility, I believe the biggest caveat is the nominee must be a male Roman Catholic in good standing (no women, heretics or schismatics need apply). I also believe there’s been an upper age limit (80) set in recent years for the cardinals who elect the Pope, so it would seem to imply that they wouldn’t be likely to elect a Pope who may be near or over that age (John XXIII, at 76, was the oldest elected Pope in the last two centuries).
While the Church doesn’t really have any set guidelines (aside from “Catholic in good standing” and “preferably “under 80”), it has been suggested that an ability to easily communicate in Italian may be a prerequisite which would explain why JPII was the first non-Italian elected in 4 centuries. The Pope’s full role includes being the Bishop of the Roman Diocese, Archbishop of the Roman Province and Primate of Italy. An inability to speak Italian would preclude his local duties (much the same way that an English-only-speaking Bishop wouldn’t have much success in a diocese in Bolivia or Austria, and a Spanish-only-speaking Bishop wouldn’t fare very well in a diocese in Canada or Australia). JPII was able to speak near-fluent Italian, as he proved in his first address to the Roman people.
TWL-
Do you have a microphone in our living room we don’t know about or is it just a GMTA moment? Peter said the exact same thing last night.
Kath
Must be a GMTA moment, Kath — though it’s not original to me. I don’t remember where I first heard it, but there have been Pope George Ringo jokes going back more than a decade.
Still pretty frightening, though. 🙂
TWL
Tim Lynch wrote:
I give 10-to-1 odds that the Onion makes mention this week of a Pope George Ringo I.
TWL
They’d better not. That was _my_ 100 percent original, no way anyone else in the world could have thought of it, idea . I’ve been saying for years the next Pope should be George Ringo. I even had some characters in an unpublished story discuss the matter.
Actually, technically, this most recent Pope should have been George Ringo, as we’d already had a John Paul.
Rick
While I struggle with Catholic doctrine, had all Catholics been like this Pope, I suspect there would be a theocratic monopoly. He was a wonderful man.
For what it’s worth, I recall variations of papal “George Ringo” jokes going back for years. I remember hearing about a souvenir T-Shirt related to one of his pastoral visits to the United States. It showed the heads of George Harrison, Pope John Paul II, and Ringo Starr, with the phrase “George John Paul and Ringo” beneath. (I don’t think it’s too presumptuous to conclude that this was not officially authorized apparel…) And, if memory (and internet research) serves, that would’ve been for his 1987 trip. So the joke’s been out there as a meme for almost twenty years…
On antother topic, in times like these, I find it fascinating to hear about traditions and procedures and rituals. According to news reports, the pope’s chamberlain gently struck the pope’s head with a silver hammer, called out his birth name three times and, getting no response, declared him dead. (There were more modern medical diagnositcs done as well, but this had to do with the traditional ritual.) Then the chamberlain removed the pope’s ring, smashed is with the hammer, and sealed the papal apartment. I don’t know–I just find this stuff really interesting.
Have fun with it, go with Pope Judas Iscariot
Actually, since we have had two Popes named John Paul, it is only fair that the next Pope be named Mick Keith.
Or “Roger Peter”, though I’m not sure how many Catholics in the UK could keep a straight face on that one…
TWL
I can’t believe he’s gone. He’d been (almost wrote “he’s been” in the past tense, before backspacing it to put it in the past tense) the Pope since I was about 4, and I have no concept of anyone being Pope other than him. When I first went to Italy at age 10, I was sixty feet away from him as my parents, sister and I sat and listened to him speak at St. Peter’s square, and even then at that young age, I had an inkling as to how important this man was.
Kudos to him for trying to do the right thing by Galileo and Jews, even if I don’t share his other conservative Catholic beliefs (I’m an agnostic now).