Ralph Sevush, all around good guy, wrote the following short essay which he calls “The Cultural Divide.” I thought it was an interesting take on the current status of things and decided to close out political blog entries for a bit with it:
Regarding the cultural divide
This morning, I woke up thinking…
… that, as Spalding Gray observed, I live on an island off the coast
of America;
… that we should have just let the south secede when they wanted to;
… that perhaps we could consider a new form of secession, a Northern
secession;
… that if Canada could just give up a strip of land along the northern
border of North Dakota and Montana, we could build a “Freedom Trail”
with an “underground railroad” that connected the northwestern corner of
Minnesota to the northeastern corner of Washington state, thus creating
an independent, contiguous nation consisting of the Northeast, the Great
Lake region, the northern midwest, and the westcoast (plus Hawaii) with
full autonomy from the United States;
… that we could then forge a union with Canada, and become the
Federation of North American States (FONAS);
… that we would then be Fonasians, with access to Canada’s national
health care, with religious and ethnic diversity and tolerance,
relationships with the rest of the world, economic justice, individual
freedoms, and great hockey teams;
… that we would then have a nation composed of the cultural, financial
and industrial centers of the former US, and have Canada as our farmland
and ranch, and still have great vacation spots in the south pacific;
… that we could learn a lesson from Israel and build a massive wall
along our southern border that would separate us from the belligerent,
imperialistic, crypto-Fascist military theocracy that continues to grip
the US government, as it presides over a small-minded citizenry steeped
in religious zealotry who love only their god, themselves, their first
cousins and their sheep, and whose leading export to the world is death;
… that I should just roll over and go back to sleep. Perhaps I’ll
dream of Fonasia, in repose on my island off the coast of America.
But when I wake up, I’ll still be here.
Shìŧ.
Did you ever have one of those mornings?
– by Ralph Sevush, Esq.
(a card-carrying member of the ACLU and the MMMS)
• 
Karen says
“I stated MY opinion. I did not try and say it was fact. I find it hard to believe. I’m still allowed my opinion, aren’t I? Or in this new America do I have to think the way the “majority” does to be allowed to speak.”
See, I think this is one reason why the left lost. You state an opinion, mark mocks it and you respond in a way that implies he is trying to in some way strip you of your right to speak. Straw man argument, all the way.
Like the boy who cried wolf, if people insist on treating disagreement as equal to censorship it will become easier for the true censors to get away with it.
I stated MY opinion. I did not try and say it was fact. I find it hard to believe. I’m still allowed my opinion, aren’t I? Or in this new America do I have to think the way the “majority” does to be allowed to speak. I don’t think anything will come of it for this election. Bush will be inaugurated in January. Yay for your side. But, I’d like to make dámņ sure that the next election is truly the will of the people instead of the voting machines.
You have the right to speak and I never claimed otherwise. You are the one throwing out accusations of election stealing based on polling data, though, and saying that “the fight isn’t over yet”. You can cloak it by saying it’s an opinion, but if I say my opinion that John Kerry was a traitor for meeting with the North Vietnamese, you’d probably be calling it slander (BTW, just for the record I don’t consider Kerry a traitor). It reminds me of what’s sometimes said by the losing side in a close football game: “We won every statistic except the final score”. Only one poll counts – the one on election day.
I agree with you, though, that the election process needs updating. In the last 10 years I’ve used three types of systems: punch-card, optical scanner (connect-the-dots), and now e-voting. Optical scanner is the best of the lot in my opinion. You get a paper trail with no confusion on chads. I imagine if optical scanners became the norm, though, we’d have problems with a lack of pens causing disenfranchisement. 🙂
Bill,
See, I think this is one reason why the left lost. You state an opinion, mark mocks it and you respond in a way that implies he is trying to in some way strip you of your right to speak. Straw man argument, all the way.
Key word being Mocked. I responded because it appeared as though what I said should not be aired since it was not the majority view. It wasn’t right.
Mark,
I never said it was fact. Just my opinion. I also don’t think anything will ever be proven. This is not just my accusation. Many people think there was something funny about this election. And even if there was no overt fraud at all, if the machines had glitches that miscounted, then there is a huge problem. (From what I understand more than a few had problems. The ones that did not appear to have anything wrong could still have performed below standard, we just don’t know about it.)
I mentioned optical scanners above as the best modern tool precisely as you’ve said: A valid paper trail.
And the pollsters go where a majority of the people polled will be. If you have 100 urban voters and 25 rural voters then the most likely accurate statistics will be answers from the 100, not the 25. And no one is addressing Captain Sociologist’s comment of why part of the poll viewed as accurate, but another is viewed inaccurate.
Karen,
Being mocked is not the same as not having the right to say things. There are those who will mock you no matter what you say. Your only reasonable option is to try to be as accurate as possible so that the mockery isn’t well deserved.
At any rate, there is no logical reason to assume that being mocked means that you have lost the right to state your opinions. Mock back. Ignore it. Provide evidence. Whatever. But don’t cry censorship and expect anyone to take it seriously.
As for Captain Sociologist’s statement…personally I don’t put much stock in ANY of the poll results. There are a thousand ways to skew them. Only one or two were good at predicting the eventual outcome. The stuff about moral issues being so important is also something to take with a grain of salt, though both sides are making hay from it. (People were given a list of options and “moral values” got the most hits–but when asked to name their own most important issue “moral values” dropped considerably as a choice).
And no one is addressing Captain Sociologist’s comment of why part of the poll viewed as accurate, but another is viewed inaccurate.
You mean about “values” being the “most important concern”? Well, here’s one Republican who would agree that it was not. I life in Dallas/Fort Worth and generally the number one reason(s) people in my sample area voted for Bush were 1) terrorism and 2) economy. No values came into the equation. I tend to dismiss the accuracy of values as much as I dismiss that Kerry had a lead in Ohio 🙂
Ah, yes. Your opinion is just so right that a majority of the people in the country couldn’t possibly have done something different.
Sounds like religion – Their opinion is just so right that a majority of people in the country that thinks it right must mean it’s right.
You have to look at where the exit polls are taking place, mostly in urban (city) centers.
Yet, this makes even LESS sense – because the more rural you are, the more likely to have your focus upon “moral values”.
More people in urban areas are concerned with violence, with terrorism, and with the economy.
So if 20% of people said moral values, and the polls are only done in urban areas, then it’s likely much higher to the total %-age of people that would cite moral values.
Sounds like religion – Their opinion is just so right that a majority of people in the country that thinks it right must mean it’s right.
or like Political Correctness/Moral Relativism.
Bill,
At any rate, there is no logical reason to assume that being mocked means that you have lost the right to state your opinions. Mock back. Ignore it. Provide evidence. Whatever. But don’t cry censorship and expect anyone to take it seriously.
The statement, “Your opinion is just so right that a majority of the people in the country couldn’t possibly have done something different.” does not require evidence. I take it to mean that since I am not among the majority my opinion is wrong. I would like to point out that since it is opinion it is not wrong or right. I would also like to point out that since it is personal opinion I do not have to back it up with facts. There are no facts. I cannot prove anything, which I have said before. I was not crying censorship. I asked a rhetorical question. I did not accuse Mark specifically. You seem to think I am being too sensitive to the mocking. Perhaps I am. Perhaps after a couple of weeks of hearing discussions about whiny liberals because we don’t choose to accept our loss in the way we are told we should, I am more than a little defensive. I will not get over this election any more than Rush Limbaugh got over the election on Bill Clinton. I did not change my mind about this administration because of this election. I truly believe that history will mark this time as a dark period for the US. Again, my personal opinion.
You seem to think I am being too sensitive to the mocking. Perhaps I am. Perhaps after a couple of weeks of hearing discussions about whiny liberals because we don’t choose to accept our loss in the way we are told we should, I am more than a little defensive.
On the flip side, Karen, I’m probably a bit defensive since the election hearing the talking heads (and more than a few people on this forum) wringing their hands about the stupidity of the masses in the Red States and about the intolerance of those who voted for Bush. We’re tired of being insulted, too.
Truce?
Truce.
I’m not here to fight with anyone. I really like that PAD provides a forum for our thoughts and allows all sides. I loved his writing before I found this site, but have a lot of respect for what he does here. I learn things here while reading the thoughts of those who take the other sides of issues. Sometimes it crystalizes my own thoughts, sometimes I even agree and change my mind after seeing the information some bring to the conversation. (Not as often.) 🙂
A bit late, but my goodness this little snit from PAD was too good to pass up. Funny how the so- called “Party of Love and Understanding” can turn around and be so incredibly bigoted.
But I’ll hit on a few points here.
PAD: Well, if/when the draft comes, it’d be kind of nice if only conservatives were left to send their children to die in Bush’s war. All the liberals in Canada could wave bye-bye to the passing troop transports.
I absolutely disagree. I think that only those who wanted to bring back the draft in the first place — the Democrats — should be forced to send their children to war.
This entire draft thing has been a massive myth that the liberal left — and the liberal media — has persisted in spreading. Bush is against the draft. The Republicans are against the draft. The military is against the draft. The only people who wanted to bring back the draft were all left-wing lunatics and Democrats. Kerry was far more likely to bring back the draft than Bush ever was.
Secondly …
This cute little tidbit from that snit that was posted:
… that if Canada could just give up a strip of land along the northern
border of North Dakota and Montana, we could build a “Freedom Trail”
A cute little pipe dream. That particular stretch of Canada is Red Country and would’ve went overwhelming to Bush if they were USA states. Take out Quebec and Canada is just as evenly split in the Conservative/Liberal spectrum as the USA is. A little bit more to the left, but it’s not quite the socialist paradise that many people think it is.
You’d be better off seceding to Europe instead.
But ah well. You lost. I won. I’m glad that the public did not buy all the lies that the mainstream media tried to cram down our throats those last few months. That really restores my confidence in the intelligence of the American population.
Now we need to do something about the brain-washed 47%.
Starving Writer posted: “Now we need to do something about the brain-washed 47%.
You mean you believe that the other 4% of Bush’s voters voted for him of their own accord? 😀
(Yes, I’m just kidding — but I couldn’t resist such a wide opening!)
Let’s not forget what the leftists and the Democrats did in the period before the election.
– Had a “neutral” TV station all but reveal its liberal bias when they “revealed” memos designed to smear the President of the U.S.A. Too bad those memos were proved fake by the blogsphere in 15 minutes flat.
– Attempt to bring back the draft, then claim that the Republicans were doing it. Take a closer look at the two “bills” that tried to bring back the draft. All of them were co-sponsored by Democrats. The bill that was passed up in the House lost overwhelming. Only two Representatives voted for it. Both were Democrats. Bush, Republicans, and the U.S. Military all steadfastily stated that they would *not* bring back the draft. And yet this somehow became an issue thanks to a certain rather biased newsanchor.
– Protestors shot up various RNC headquarters around the nation. I have yet to hear of one instance where Republicans or righties tried to shoot up a DNC headquarter. It seems as if most of the lunatics were on the Democrats’ side.
– Some cute “pranksters” tossed pies at Ann Coulter when she was giving a speech. When’s the last time a Republican threw anything at any of the many celebrity leftist asshats out there? God knows Michael Moore certainly deserves having several pies tossed his way. Of course he probably would’ve taken it as a compliment or devoured them before they hit the ground.
– A Democrat tried to drive over Katherine Harris, the ex-Secretary of State of Florida. He thankfully failed. Not one single Republican lowered themselves to attempted murder. Too bad you Democrats can’t say the same thing.
– The very existence of Michael Moore and his crockumentary. The fact that otherwise rational human beings actually gobble up his bûllšhìŧ then ask for more. No, wait, actually, you leftists keep Michael Moore. I honestly believe that he played a massive part in handing Florida and Ohio over to President Bush. As long as Moore is around, the Republicans will continue to pile up victories after victories.
Here’s to another landslide in 2006, and a new Republican president in 2008! (Oh, please please please nominate Hillary in 2008 — The Republicans could put up a boiled cabbage and it would still beat Hillary in a landslide.)
– The very existence of Michael Moore and his crockumentary. The fact that otherwise rational human beings actually gobble up his bûllšhìŧ then ask for more. No, wait, actually, you leftists keep Michael Moore.
Well, yeah, the right has had Rush Limbaugh. Fair’s fair, I guess.
“Protestors shot up various RNC headquarters around the nation. I have yet to hear of one instance where Republicans or righties tried to shoot up a DNC headquarter. It seems as if most of the lunatics were on the Democrats’ side.”
There was at least one incidence where the headquarters of the Democrats was shot at–don’t have the details right now but I remember seeing it.
I’d agree that the violence was mostly fromt he left though I think one should fairly point out that it may well have been more from the anarchist fringe than from true liberals. I would no more blame liberals for the actions of the anarchist fringe than I would want conservatives to be tarred by what some separatist militia group does.
You know, thinking about the “let’s split away and make our own country! Mom could make the costumes and my dad has lumber!” fantasy; a good number of the “blue” states didn’t go to Kerry by a whole lot. How is the new country of FONAS going to ensure that a shift of just a few percent in the electorate doesn’t turn a state into one of (shudder) THEM? Re-education camps? Loyalty oaths? Come to think of it, would FONAS even be a democracy? Founded on specific political values, would it risk having a mere majority potentially alter those values?
And bang, right away I find a potential solution– from alleged “humorist” Garrison Keillor in an article found at http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2004/11/07/npr_star_keillor_tel.php
“Not one to shy away from speaking his mind, Keillor proposed a solution to what he deemed a fundamental problem with U.S. elections.
Well, yeah, the right has had Rush Limbaugh. Fair’s fair, I guess.
Okay, I can’t believe I’m goig to stand up for Rush considering I grew tired of him over a decade ago. However, one important difference between Rush and Michael Moore is that Rush doesn’t present his show as a “news” show the way Michael Moore presents his films as “documentaries”. Rush says point blank that his primary intent is to entertain.
Other talk show hosts (Hannity comes to mind) don’t bother making that distinction.
Now we need to do something about the brain-washed 47%.
Yeah, we 47% have been brainwashed by an Administration reveling in the New Evangelical Kingdom.
I think you got the wrong %-age there being brainwashed.
Btw, does anybody else think it’s pathetic on the part of the right that they literally spit on Michael Moore, yet defend ultra-bìŧçh Ann Coulter as if she’s the Second Coming?
You think some of us, and Michael Moore, have a particular distain for the right. But if Clinton died tomorrow, Coulter would be there to piss on his grave.
“Btw, does anybody else think it’s pathetic on the part of the right that they literally spit on Michael Moore, yet defend ultra-bìŧçh Ann Coulter as if she’s the Second Coming?”
Well for starters, “literally” means he has actually been spat upon. If that happened, shame on whoever did it (hëll, write them up for assault, no telling what they might be carrying).
Since I have not spit on Mr Moore, that being far more energy expending than I think he is worth, and I got tired of Ann Coulter about 2 weeks after I first heard her, I guess I am not a member of the right. And the left won’t have me. I feel forlorn.
I think you got the wrong %-age there being brainwashed.
and
You think some of us, and Michael Moore, have a particular distain for the right.
I wonder why we would think that…..
Karen,
While I too would like to see a paper trail with electronic voting machines – which I detest – you are really going over the top here. Let’s look at some of the statements that have you so hot and bothered, okay?
KAREN: My personal opinion? I think they managed to steal another election. I have a problem believing 51% of the voters actually thnk this administration is doing a good enough job to keep doing what they’re doing.
MARK L:Ah, yes. Your opinion is so right that a majority of people couldn’t possibly have done something different.
Karen, you’re not “merely stating an opinion here”. A pure opinion would be “Bush sucks”, “PAD’s latest NF book is the best ever” or “chocolate rules”.
You are not doing that. You are accusing people of committing a crime and trying to delegitimize a freaking national election for President. If there were actually strong evidence, fine. But there’s not. Just your feeling that the majority of the country MUST agree with you. That’s what Mark L was trying to say. Reread the dámņ post. He’s not saying you have to side with the majority. He’s pointing out that because the evidence/vote counts don’t jibe with your way of thinking the election must have been “stolen”. That is an acuusation you made, so don’t play the victim.
KAREN: I responded because it appeared that what I said should not be aired because it was not the majority view”
Wrong. He was simply responding to your outrageous assertion that because the electon did not go the way you wanted it to, there must be some foul play, snce you have a hard time believing a majority of people don’t think the same way you do.
KAREN: I would also like to point out that because it is my personal opinion I do not have to back it up with facts.
What are you? Five? No, Karen, you don’t. But it would sure give your accusations and/or your opinions in this case a bit more legitimacy, rather than being viewed as playing the victim and being paranoid, strident, delusional, partisan, drowning in sour grapes, arrogant and elitist.
This is what most people don’t get. You are entiltled to your opinion. You are not entitled to have your opinions respected or even taken seriously. Al opinions do not have equal weight.
I wonder why we would think that…..
I don’t hide it. But the point is that those on the right point fingers and then try to hide when the focus is upon them.
Moore shows his distain with facts, yet right-wingers then just say to be nothing but a freak show, that he must be full of lies.
Coulter ought to look at her own ugly mug in the mirror some time if she wants to see a real freak.
Couple those “opinions” toward people like Moore, with the Bush Administration’s bs, and it’s no wonder that the people don’t know the truth.
I find it sad that this discussion has now devolved into, “Your side has more freaks than our side does.”
While I decided to throw my support in with the Kerry camp this election, I have never joined either political party because inter-party debates always seem to end up in name-calling discussions like this.
I have heard plenty of stories about bricks being thrown threw windows that had Bush posters or cars with Kerry stickers being keyed. This was a particularly contentious election and many people did take it way too far. But I don’t think these people are indicative of what the vast majority of members of either party are like, anymore than I think Michael Moore or Anne Coulter are indicative of typical Democrats or Republicans.
Most Democrats and Republicans are decent, hard-working Americans who just want to pay their bills and take care of their families. I know that’s a shocking idea to some here, but it’s true. I think a lot people need to remember that for the next election.
Is it true that Canada is “a land that tilts more to the left than the United States” as reported by reuters?
Isn’t Alaska more to the left than Canada? But then again doesn’t Alaska tilt more to the right? Something to ponder. :0)
Here’s a support site I found:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.html
Craig said Moore shows his distain with facts.
That has to be one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long time. Stop it, you’re killing me. LOL
Keep going Craig, and soon it will be one enemy of freedom down with millions to go…
Bladestar said Keep going Craig, and soon it will be one enemy of freedom down with millions to go.
LMAO @ Bladestar. He actually wishes me and others ill will.
Gee, imagine that.
I feel pretty free, Bladestar, as I’m sure others in the so called “millions” that you refer to do also.
Canada has great beer. You and Craig should get together sometime if you’re legally old enough to drink that is.
Scratch that Bladestar, don’t get together and drink. Beer is a depressant, of which, you don’t need right now. The best thing to do is breathe deeply and count to 10. You can use your fingers if you want to. :0)
For those who still believe Saddam wasn’t connected with terrorists:
“WASHINGTON
Novafan said…
So, how many of you still believe it was the wrong war at the wrong time?
I do.
But that’s not why I’m posting. What part of the CIC Canada website are you drawing attention to, and why? I must confess I’m not sure what you’re pointing out.
Moore shows his distain with facts
Disdain with facts or disdain for facts?
Craig,
First of all, it’s DISDAIN. Not DISTAIN. I don’t even think DISTAIN is a word.
“BTW, does anybody else think it’s pathetic on the part of the right that they literally spit on Michael Moore, yet defend ultra-bìŧçh Ann Coulter as if she’s the second Coming”
No, what I find pathetic
1.) Is that you have to ask for support from others, as if the more people who agree with your opinion the more truthful or witty your statement is
2.) That you actually think think the right LITERALLY spit on Michael Moore, meaning someone actually did. If so, I would love to hear/read it
3.)That you’re willing to believe all of Michael Moore’s bûllšhìŧ because you hate the Administration so much
4.) That you speak in generalities and stereotype “the right” as “defending” Ann Coulter as if she’s the second Coming
A.) I love Ann Coulter. A lot. But Rich Lowry, the editor-in-chief of the National Review fired her after he thought she went over the line. Honest, Craig, all of “the Right” don’t think alike
It’s also pathetic
5.) That you would continue to bring up Coulter when no one else did, and that you continue to bash her books when you have not read them. I actually read three of Moore’s books. Some of the content was funny opinion, some were things that made me think and some were easily debunked lies. I also have seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”. This way, I actually know what I’m talking about when I criticize.
Unlike you when you criticize Ann Coulter.
It’s pathetic that
6.) You have to stoop to calling a woman you don’t agree with a “bìŧçh”
7.) You are constantly negative anymore. You weren’t always this way. Yet now you’re almost as nasty as Bladestar. Isn’t there anything in this country you’re happy about or grateful for? No jokes or sarcasm. I’m serious.
Finally, it’s pathetic that you state
8.) “an Administration riveting (I believe you meant reveling, but what the hey)in the New Evangelical Kingdom”.
This is really ridiculous. Yeah, a bunch of people with a point of view different than yours actually voted and exercised some power. How dare they!
If Blacks tipped the balance for Bush, would you talk about a New African Kingdom”? If Hispanics, which actually voted in great percentages for Bush this time and definitely helped tip the balance, were focused on, would you be fearful of a New Mexican Kingdom? I mean, a majority of Hispanics are – gasp – religious, so you could bash two birds with one stone that way?
Do you have any idea what your blatant disdain for those who hold different points of view from you – ESPECIALLY if they’re religious – looks like? Hate and intolerance, pure and simple.
In short, it’s pathetic.
I love Ann Coulter. A lot. But Rich Lowry, the editor-in-chief of the National Review fired her after he thought she went over the line. Honest, Craig, all of “the Right” don’t think alike
And not all of the Left, either; so bringing up Moore as a symbol of the Left should be about as effective as bringing up Limbaugh–I take ’em both equally seriously. And in fact, you can’t really point at one person to personify the ideology of either side…
Jeff said What part of the CIC Canada website are you drawing attention to, and why? I must confess I’m not sure what you’re pointing out.
Did you go to the site Jeff? It’s the immigration site that has been frequented in the last 10 days or so. Did I get the address wrong?
Yes, but unlike you religio-fascists dirtbags, we’re fighting for freedom for everyone, while you’re trying to get your ignorant religious beliefs turned into laws that limit everyone, not just yourselves.
Keep you religion to your self! Not everybody believes all that garbage.
Novafan wrote…
It’s the immigration site that has been frequented in the last 10 days or so. Did I get the address wrong?
Nope, I must just be missing the part where it’s newsworthy. Not surprising…I don’t reckon you’d find the immigration section of your government’s website engrossing either =)
Let me toss this into the mix:
The GOP has been claiming that the election results show that most of the country is now behind the Bush administration. I’ve done some rough math, and I don’t see the numbers supporting that claim.
I’ve seen that there are an estimated 186 million American voters. 59.5 million voted for Bush. Close to 56 million voted for Kerry. That leaves about 71 million Americans who voted for neither.
Can someone explain to me how less than 1/3 supports a claim of “most?” And I don’t buy the explanation of “when the GOP says that, they mean a majority of voters.” Bushites are claiming that they’ve got the support of the country now, and I really don’t see it. They won the election by a margin of around 2% of all eligible voters. Where I come from, that’s not considered a huge margin of victory.
kingbob,
If you accept that reasoning, then no president ever has support of much of the country. Most presidential election turnouts the last few years have been in the 40% range – meaning only 20% might have supported some candidate.
However, votes translate into power. If people don’t vote, that’s their own problem. Bush has the support of most of the people who count – the ones who show up at the polls.
So, how many of you still believe it was the wrong war at the wrong time?
I do. Where’s the connection to 9/11?
Whenever you have to resort to juggling the stats to show that the guy who beat you really didn’t beat you, if you look at it a certain way, it’s time to take up a new hobby. It’s like saying that your foootball team, which lost by 7 points, actually WON if you look at things like how many yards they rushed and who held onto the ball longer and who has the more stylish helmet design and which quarterback has the prettiest wife, anything but the actual final score.
I said: It reminds me of what’s sometimes said by the losing side in a close football game: “We won every statistic except the final score”. Only one poll counts – the one on election day.
Bill said: It’s like saying that your foootball team, which lost by 7 points, actually WON if you look at things like how many yards they rushed and who held onto the ball longer and who has the more stylish helmet design and which quarterback has the prettiest wife, anything but the actual final score.
Hmm, where have I heard that before 🙂
Mark L.:
Yep. Mind, I’m not saying Bush didn’t win, or that he has the support of a majority of voters. In a way, I’m splitting hairs, by putting a lot of stock into words. Which, if the fours have taught me anything, you’d think I’d have learned not to do.
The point I was trying to make was that the Bush administration is laying claim to something they can’t prove with numbers. At best, the “majority of Americans” are ambivilent when it comes to his government. They didn’t vote, either for him or against him.
I think a true test of where our current government is will be in 2 years. If things lean heavily republican there, I think that’ll show a trend that we are swinging conservative. I’m not convinved yet that we are.
And even so, I wish some GOP supporters would stop trying to tell Democrats and liberals that they are “wrong.” Last I checked, the Senate still needs 6 additional voted before they can really get anything done, meaning that they are going to have to accomodate 6 democratic votes for everything they want to get done, assuming we don’t start to see splintering within the GOP. A lot of promises were made this election, and people are going to expect making good on those promises.
In other news, does anyone feel safer now that Russia has announced that they are developing new ICBMs? I sure do.
No, wait, actually, I don’t….
The bottom line is, what people who didn’t vote think is completely irrelevent. If you couldn’t get off your ášš on the one day that our voice really counts and make yourself heard, why should anyone care whether you support the president or not?
Personally, I think everyone between the ages of 18 and 27 who didn’t bother to vote should be immediately drafted and shipped out to Iraq. Maybe they’ll take their right to vote seriously next tim.
You and Craig should get together sometime if you’re legally old enough to drink that is.
Now that’s a good one. But then, I’ve heard it before. Best defense is a bad assumption?
Now I’ll make an assumption of my own: Do you have the iq of a Bush or a monkey? Oh, wait, those are the same thing. Maybe they need to stop letting you out of the zoo.
and that you continue to bash her books when you have not read them.
You know, it’s funny, but I don’t think I ever said whether I had read her books or not.
But, no, I haven’t. And until the last few days, I hadn’t read/watched anything from Michael Moore either – I still don’t care for him and some of his tactics, but he at least knows the truth.
I have read some of Coulter’s editorials, and they are so far off base it’s downright sad.
would you be fearful of a New Mexican Kingdom?
Drag me over the coals for this one, but I’ve called the illegal immigration of Hispanics into this country a “passive invasion”.
Thankfully, the states, blue and red alike, are starting to wake up and take notice of the fact that our federal gov’t isn’t going to do šhìŧ about it.
Do you have any idea what your blatant disdain for those who hold different points of view from you – ESPECIALLY if they’re religious – looks like? Hate and intolerance, pure and simple.
So, I see that a gay marriage amendment meets your approval then? That that isn’t intolerance?
Try looking to your own side of the fence sometime before bìŧçhìņg about what my yard looks like.
I’ll say it again, for the umpteeth time: it is my opinion that the people that voted for Bush show a general display of ignorance and stupidity that makes me wonder why any of us try at all. That this country isn’t worth it, because it’s being run into the ground by a bunch of people who are only good a running a propoganda machine of intolerance and ignorance.
Take it or leave it.
Btw, wake me when the right-wingers realize how much DISDAIN they show for gays, liberals, and anybody else that doesn’t agree with their God-enforcing “philosophies”.
Personally, I think everyone between the ages of 18 and 27 who didn’t bother to vote should be immediately drafted and shipped out to Iraq. Maybe they’ll take their right to vote seriously next tim.
(sarcasm)
Heaven forbid we send good and honest Republicans to fight and die for what our leaders believe in!
(/sarcasm)
From Den: “The bottom line is, what people who didn’t vote think is completely irrelevent. If you couldn’t get off your ášš on the one day that our voice really counts and make yourself heard, why should anyone care whether you support the president or not?
Personally, I think everyone between the ages of 18 and 27 who didn’t bother to vote should be immediately drafted and shipped out to Iraq. Maybe they’ll take their right to vote seriously next tim. (sic)”
Makes me wonder, why just 18 and 27?
Don’t you think you’re making a broad assumption about those 71 million who didn’t vote? And just look at that number. Since they nearly form a true majority, I’d really think twice before I went about kicking that bee hive.
I do know a few people who abstained. And yes, in most voting cultures, absination is a valid voting choice. Some don’t vote because they truly feel that their vote doesn’t count. Even if their “side” wins, they don’t really have any say or control over that elected official, so why bother? Also, I’ve heard many people didn’t vote because neither Kerry nor Bush represented a candidate they could support.
As to your drafting idea, I’d much rather put the people who voted for Bush in line for the draft before anyone else. In fact, anyone who supported Bush and his attack on Iraq that’s not already contributed a body to the military should volunteer to do so. I mean, if they so clearly support the idea that we should go around attacking nations that we think are going to be threats some time in the future, there’s a recruiter near you that’d be delighted to see you.
I say this in jest, but with no small amount of trepidation. I was the guy, after the 2000 election, who shrugged and said “how bad can it get? Bush only has 4 years to screw things up. We’ll be able to fix anything that he breaks.”
Now, I’m not so sure there’s going to be anything left to fix…
Craig:
Coulter ought to look at her own ugly mug in the mirror some time if she wants to see a real freak.
Ann Coulter may be a lot of things but “ugly” isn’t one of them. She is a little too skinny for my personal tastes.
(Yeah, I know. I can’t stay away. Just like everything else in life that’s probably bad for you, PeterDavid.net is addictive too.)
Btw, wake me when the right-wingers realize how much DISDAIN they show for gays, liberals, and anybody else that doesn’t agree with their God-enforcing “philosophies”.
Will do. Right after the left-wingers realize how much DISDAIN they show for conservative Christians and anyone else who doesn’t agree with their God-excluding “philosophies.”
Jim in Iowa