Since this has nothing to do with Chris Reeve and heroism, I’m mentioning it here, just for amusement’s sake.
It was suggested by people here, and by John Byrne himself, that I didn’t have the nerve to show up on the Byrne board to make statements directly to him. I’ve already explained my reasons why I wouldn’t but, just for giggles, I endeavored to register on his board.
This is what I got:
“Sorry, the email address or domain entered has been blocked.
Unfortunately, you will not be able to sign up using Hotmail, Yahoo, AOL, Compuserve or any other anonymous e-mail providers.
Due to past abuses we cannot make any exceptions. Please try again with a non-anonymous e-mail address.”
So even though “padguy@aol.com” is widely publicized and known to be me, and is not remotely anonymous, what I would have to do is start an entire separate e-mail account for the single and sole purpose of going on the Byrne board so that he and his fans could then tell me repeatedly to go away.
Oh yes. That’s gonna happen.
PAD
• 
So why not address this situation to Byrne openly? His webmaster could certainly clear an address for you to use. In fact, were I the webmaster, and had I read this, I would take care of the problem for you.
Even though going on Byrne’s board will bring you nothing but abuse, I understand your motivations for doing so; you want to state your case. But by doing this, you’re also putting Byrne on the spot; does he want to let you speak?
I wonder just what they mean by “anonymous.” You have to pay for an email account with AOL, don’t you?
I’m not sure I understand the whole anonymous email thing. I can understand how the free services, such as Yahoo, Hotmail, etc would fall under that category. I’ve tried to register on numerous boards and have been declined for the same reason. But AOL? Isn’t that still a paid service?(Except for those trial discs that we use to balance the wobbly table legs)
if you’re using one of the aol free disks … is there any proof that its a legit account?
(not sure about aol I gave it up when it was still quantum link :-))
“So why not address this situation to Byrne openly? His webmaster could certainly clear an address for you to use. In fact, were I the webmaster, and had I read this, I would take care of the problem for you.”
Well, I tend to take statements such as “we cannot make any exceptions” at face value. And besides, as I’ve noted, I’ve no real intention to post there since I know that what I write–no matter how innocuous, even flattering–will be met by intense scrutiny, distorted, or dismissed, just as has always been the case on any Byrne board I’ve posted on.
“Even though going on Byrne’s board will bring you nothing but abuse, I understand your motivations for doing so; you want to state your case. But by doing this, you’re also putting Byrne on the spot; does he want to let you speak?”
John put himself on the spot by challenging me to show up on his board. I, adventurer that I am, decided to see if doing so was even possible. Turns out it’s not. Not without extraordinary efforts on my part or the site master breaking their own rules which, let’s face it, wouldn’t be fair to ask him to do.
My guess is that it’s for the best.
PAD
Call me clueless, Peter, but just what is the source of this supposed “emnity” between you and Byrne? I just don’t get it. I understand if you don’t want to respond to avoid the sort of “he said/he said” such questions degenerate into, but I just find the whole situation perplexing, to say the least.
Regardless, I’d have to concur with your last statement. It probably is for the best.
Please don’t be concerned. Byrne is a hack who hasn’t done anything of note IMO since the ’80s. His comments on Christopher Reeve were classless and simplistic.
Sigh… why do I want to get into this field again?
PAD,
The challenge is rather funny. First, your response was about the content of what he said, not a direct personal attack on JB. It is your site and your right to editorialize about things going on in the world.
Second, I don’t know you, but I have two impressions based on your posts. You don’t appear to go out looking for fights wherever you can, but you also don’t appear to be afraid to state your mind. Based on that impression, it seems childish to make the claim that you were afraid to post your comments directly to JB. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong in my impressions of you. 😉
We are on opposite ends of the spectrum politically. I don’t understand why you can hold the positions you do. But I suspect I would enjoy having a conversation with you about a lot of issues, particularly things related to Madrox or to Star Trek (especially New Frontiers). And your comments about Reeves and heroism were valid and well said.
Jim in Iowa
I would not waste one iota of my time if I were you, in going to Byrne’s board. Posting an opinion that is contrary to his is a futile exercise because his website is not a fair forum for debate.
He always has the final say, and when posters have caught him in his own lies he deletes their posts, the posts of his own that they used to prove their case, denies he ever made such posts, and then either deletes or locks down the entire thread. (As well as banning the posters who were revealing his own lies)
There is no purpose in trying to debate in a forum clearly designed to let Byrne come out on top and even then he’s taken his lumps because other websites have saved the offending posts he deleted and denied ever making.
Byrne is the equivalent of the kid surrounded by all of his buddies talking tough and challenging another kid to a fight, but his tough talk and bravery mysteriously disappears when he’s on his own.
He and his website are not worth your time.
PAD, dont waste your time with the likes of him, or his goons that populate his domain. But Im sure if you keep talking, Im positive his Galactus size ego will lead him to respond here eventually.
Total nonsequitor, but the Columbia Journalism Review is writing about the X-factor in the race. Having written the team, did you know that they were involved in the election?
This just sounds so entertaining. I hope it happens.
Total nonsequitor, but the Columbia Journalism Review is writing about the X-factor in the race. Having written the team, did you know that they were involved in the election?
It’s all about the team’s secret undercover member, Ralph Nader. Only the comics code knew about his membership and revoked it. He wanted to be known as N.A.D. Man.
I’ve got 5 email addresses. I use them all the time. Having extras is good. Want to fill out a form and not worry about the spam? Get a Yahoo account and use that for stuff you’re iffy about.
Spymac.com is nice as well. I’ve got one of them.
I’ve got a gmail account that I use rarely, mostly as a backup for my ISP email account. Then I have one for a site I do music reviews for, which is used for “business”.
Extra email accounts, good idea.
John Byrne is a pûņkášš lets just say it.
I may not agree with PAD on some things but at least every one gets to post their opinions.You even let a certain person post way longer than i would have before the typekey thing and all.
This just proves you are the bigger and IMO more talented man:)
Though it would be interesting if he did post here wouldnt it?
What would Nader’s power be? Combustability? (From Pintos to his reputation?)
Odd. Isn’t Byrne’s e-mail under an aol.com domain name? 😉
I’m not going to come down on either side of this debate but as someone who frequents both peterdavid.net and the John Byrne’s Forum I do have some information about posting on the Forum that you might be able to use. I ran into the same message about anonymous emails when I first tried to post on the Forum but after conacting the site administrator I found him to be very nice and accomadating and he was able to help me successfully register. I would give it a shot if you really do want to post there.
I ran into the same message about anonymous emails when I first tried to post on the Forum but after conacting the site administrator I found him to be very nice and accomadating and he was able to help me successfully register. I would give it a shot if you really do want to post there.
I get the feeling that, if PAD tried this route, not only would the site admin get a great laugh out of it, he’d post the request to the board at large so that they could get a laugh out of it as well.
I kind of doubt that would happen. Even if it did, what difference does it make? At least then PAD could claim he tried everything.
Redford wrote:
“Sigh… why do I want to get into this field again?”
Because you like the thrill that can only be attained by working in a profession with high competition, low pay, and John Byrne?
That’s an automated message. Most message forums have a domain restriction ability like that. Since it’s default, you’d have to have the site admin enter you manually.
In other words “it’s not personal”.
Um, I don’t recall seeing any challenge by Byrne daring you to come and post.
And for the record, whether you believe me or not, I haven’t seen him make any remarks about you on his board ever since it went “private”. So please don’t act like he’s ripping into you without the chance to defend yourself. In fact, you were the one to start this bickering this time.
“And besides, as I’ve noted, I’ve no real intention to post there since I know that what I write–no matter how innocuous, even flattering–will be met by intense scrutiny,”
Nobody forced you to take his comments about heroes out of context from his board and complain about them here. Then you expect to be able to say somthing nice and expect others on that board to be pleasant toward you? Please stop playing the victim here.
I love both sites — Peter’s ‘blog and the JBF. They’re among my top five comics creators, and I love having access to both of them.
Peter,
There’s no way JB would let you in his site’s message board. It exists solely to perpetuate his delusion that he is God. For him, or his friends who now run the site, to allow you in would bee like inviting a guy named Zeus into the gates of Judeo/Christian Heaven.
Plus, they’re a little weary of “imposters,” thanks in small part to some mischief I was involved in over there. That is the reason for their distrust of AOL addresses.
DW
Well, PAD was basically trying to sign up just to challenge him. One of the rules of his board is “And finally
See, but my understanding is that in some respects PAD *is* a fan of john’s. He’s said(even in the above post)that he loved Next Men. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think Peter even said that he wasn’t going in to cause trouble. Whether Byrne is able to see that through his haze of delusion is another story altogether.
“It’s another story…”
Sorry. Had to drop Airplane in there for some reason. could be too much RedBull.
Best,
Sean
See, Vince (may I call you Vince?), usually, when someone says something nice, it’s considered polite to be nice in return. Even if you don’t really like the person involved, there are matters of basic courtesy at stake here.
Never having had any dealings with Byrne, I can’t really say (although I, for one, did like the fact that he powered Supes down – boy’d gotten to where there weren’t any challenges left), but if much being said here is accurate, he’s not really familiar with courtesy…
“usually, when someone says something nice, it’s considered polite to be nice in return. Even if you don’t really like the person involved, there are matters of basic courtesy at stake here.”
Maybe. Maybe not. But I can see the other side of that, how it could be considered annoying for someone to pay an uninvited compliment, with the expectation that the reluctant complimentee now has to say something nice back, even if he doesn’t want to.
For the record, during a previous iteration on his board, there was a time period where PAD had for the most part not posted with the goal of causing trouble, and by and large the other board members were cautiously receptive (ok, there was one notable exception, but even I didnt agree with her reaction to it).
Byrne mostly ignored his comments, but still that’s better than the “shoo go away” attitude that PAD is trying to portray.
“Um, I don’t recall seeing any challenge by Byrne daring you to come and post.”
“And for the record, whether you believe me or not, I haven’t seen him make any remarks about you on his board ever since it went “private”. So please don’t act like he’s ripping into you without the chance to defend yourself.”
Really. How interesting. So I suppose I totally imagined that Byrne wrote the following:
“Why bother? PAD long ago appointed himself my
own personal Jiminy Cricket, always — so he claims — leaping in to correct my bad history, lies and, according to him, grammar — yet since we have established this board, with proper rules of behavior, he has not once bothered to even try confronting me in an arena where he would be open to the same ripostes as anyone else.”
See, now, I don’t claim to be any sort of great intellectual genius or nothin’, but that sure sounds like a dare. It sure sounds like a remark about me. And I’ve already said that I’m not actually interested in defending myself on his board…not that that’s a real option. Furthermore, he has indeed made other posts about me in recent months. However he usually does them as blind items. You know, “a pro once said such and such.” That kind of thing. Perhaps he thinks if he says my name three times, I’ll appear.
“In fact, you were the one to start this bickering this time.”
Nope. All I did was talk about comments of his that were already being discussed on most of the major comic book websites. As I noted in the other thread, what would you have? That I specifically don’t comment BECAUSE it’s John? To any rational mind, John himself “started it.” But, as always, when trouble hits John, it couldn’t possibly be because he brought it on himself. It’s the evil Byrne bashers out to get him.
“Nobody forced you to take his comments about heroes out of context from his board and complain about them here. Then you expect to be able to say somthing nice and expect others on that board to be pleasant toward you? Please stop playing the victim here.”
Oh for God’s sake, please spare us. I took nothing out of context. As for “expecting others on that board to be pleasant toward” me, no, quite the opposite, I’ve said I expect them to badger me, twist my words, and repeatedly tell me to leave. I don’t claim to be any sort of victim. I’m simply recounting what’s always been the case, while putting the lie to John’s claim that I wouldn’t confront him. I have. Repeatedly. And I see no point to it anymore, because really, it’s been a waste of my time all the previous years I’ve done it. And if I don’t learn from my mistakes, what’s the point in getting older?
Again, John can’t have it both ways: He says I would “never bother” to confront him on his site, but has in the past cited his refusal to show up on my sites as a sign of quality character. It’s either/or…except to such as you, who is willing to accept whatever he feeds you. It’s pretty sad.
However, you’re certainly welcome to hang out. We don’t shut down threads, we let people speak their minds, and don’t delete postings that simply disagree with the host. But if that environment is unappealing–if for some bizarre reason that doesn’t strike you as a “level playing field”–I understand.
PAD
“Well, PAD was basically trying to sign up just to challenge him. One of the rules of his board is “And finally
Well, fine. I guess I can concede that his comment above can be taken as a “challenge”. But in the end it doesn’t change much. That comment only came after you decided to comment on his comments about the definition of a hero. (Incidentally, while I see where he’s coming from, in the end I don’t agree with his literal definition. But I saw no need to get offended by those comments). Prior to that you weren’t mentioned by name by him for quite some time. Yes, there were “so and so professional said” posts, but if you wanted to play that game you could have just posted “Some pro on another board said this about Reeve”. You chose not to. So that’s why I say you started this. Because while I honestly don’t think Byrne said what he said in order to get a rise out of anyone (thinking “This ought to piss some people off…..”), I can’t see how you can say otherwise by posting about it here. You had to know that your fans would reply with “OMG how can he say such a thing/what a dìçk/etc etc”. Just like with this latest posting. Yeah, it’s your right to do so, free speech, yadda yadda, but please don’t act like the wronged party if someone reacts unkindly to it.
“And I see no point to it anymore, because really, it’s been a waste of my time all the previous years I’ve done it. And if I don’t learn from my mistakes, what’s the point in getting older?”
I’ve seen you say similar things years ago, yet here you are saying it again. Look, you are two different people. And at this point I don’t think you’ll ever see eye-to-eye. For the record, I’m not a fan of deleting posts outright either, but that’s life. Once again you both have different ways of dealing with things. I just don’t like the bickering in general.
“And I see no point to it anymore, because really, it’s been a waste of my time all the previous years I’ve done it. And if I don’t learn from my mistakes, what’s the point in getting older?”
“I’ve seen you say similar things years ago, yet here you are saying it again.”
Yes, and this time I’m sticking to it by not bothering to go on his website. As I’ve said repeatedly, I wasn’t planning to post anyway. I was just curious to see if I *were* inclined to take Byrne up on his challenge, if it would then be possible to do so. Answer: No. Which is pretty much what I expected.
“Look, you are two different people. And at this point I don’t think you’ll ever see eye-to-eye. For the record, I’m not a fan of deleting posts outright either, but that’s life. Once again you both have different ways of dealing with things. I just don’t like the bickering in general.”
But free will cuts both ways, now, doesn’t it. You said that no one “forced” me to comment. True. But no one “forced” you to go and READ the comments. Or come to this website. Or even go on the internet. That being the case, aren’t you now painting YOURself as victim? Poor Vincent, being subject to all this darn bickering. If only you weren’t being compelled to read it all…oh, wait! You’re not! Funny that.
PAD
“So how you enjoying this here site? I mean, I could always argue–based on your posts–that you’re here to cause trouble, delete your posts and ban you. But we hereabouts don’t operate that way. We don’t ask you not to stir things up. We just observe that it would be nice if you made sense while doing it.”
Yes, you could make that point, and delete me as such. That’s your call. I realize you don’t operate that way. But l’m not totally in favor of every instance where its happened there either.
But I’ve said my piece. “Why do I bother?” springs to mind as well. I wasn’t out to “stir šhìŧ”, just make a few points. You obviously don’t agree. That’s the nature of things I guess. I tend to stay away from here due to the high political content (at least at this point in time). I rarely ever see an Internet discussion where one side says to the other “You know what – you’re right”. But I just thought I’d toss out some dissenting opinion anyway.
vv
“I tend to stay away from here due to the high political content (at least at this point in time). I rarely ever see an Internet discussion where one side says to the other “You know what – you’re right”. But I just thought I’d toss out some dissenting opinion anyway.”
Well, I appreciate your swinging by. A word, however, about the “high political content.” I hear about this all the time. “Peter, why do you have so much political content in your blog? It’s such a drag.”
Well, let’s see. Not counting the BID reprints, of the sixteen or so posts currently visible on the blog, exactly two of them relate to politics, and one of them wasn’t even posted by me, but by Glenn. So I continue to not know what the hëll people are talking about in that regard. To say nothing of the fact that, again, no one is FORCING them to read the politically-related posts.
So your reason for staying away from here makes no logical sense when one takes a cold, hard look at the numbers. Then again, I’ve noticed in my life that people usually don’t make decisions based on logical sense. They decide based on instinct and gut feeling, and then come up with the reasons afterward to try and rationalize the decision.
PAD
Hey PAD- I’d be happy to recommend Fastmail’s e-mail service. Or I could send you a Google-based gmail invite for their service.
Or I could just recommend that you avoid the eventual ulcer and stay off the Byrne board. I’m a huge Byrne fan- even thought Lab Rats was pretty neat- and yet I’ve been called Insult Boy twice by him for comments that were far from insulting. i’ve given up on the notion of having anything but fawning, adoring conversation about John there- maybe we all should, too.
Then again, I’ve noticed in my life that people usually don’t make decisions based on logical sense. They decide based on instinct and gut feeling, and then come up with the reasons afterward to try and rationalize the decision.
Or, to quote a character from a Heinlein story, “Man is not a rational animal, man is a rationalizing animal”.
In defense of the amount of politics here — why shouldn’t you talk about politics? Because of your job? I’m a data analyst, my blog is mostly political or religious in nature, and no one berates me about it (of course, no one reads it, either). Why should a writer be any more or less welcome to comment on public events than anyone else?
If people want to discuss your work and/or the television shows you watch, you give ample opportunity to do so. Even if you DIDN’T, it’s not like there aren’t plenty of other places for them to do that.
Your politics (and those of most of the regular commenters) are in stark contrast to mine, but this blog tends to be one of the few liberal-authored blogs that I actually enjoy reading when I have time. I appreciate your dedication to allowing open discussion here, Peter, even when the speech disagrees.
I’ve tried to register for his site on more than one occasion, only to be turned away for no good reason, even before these absurd new ‘requirements’ came into being. Several million e-mail users have accounts on these sites and only these sites. And I am NOT using my work e-mail to register. Then again, I would probably be turned away anyway.
PAD –
Forgive me for the seriously off-topic post.
I finally got my “Fallen Angel” trade this weekend (is there a reason it took three weeks to get to my comic shop?). I happily pulled the receipt out of the bag to send off for my bookplate… and saw that it is completely unmarked. Just an ordinary cash register receipt with one item at $12.95. It’s not even imprinted with the name of my comic shop.
Will you accept it? Should I send a photo of the book? Pretty please?
🙂 ekd
Barry:
>I’ve tried to register for his site on more than one occasion, only to be turned away for no good reason, even before these absurd new ‘requirements’ came into being. Several million e-mail users have accounts on these sites and only these sites. And I am NOT using my work e-mail to register. Then again, I would probably be turned away anyway.
Oh that this was the only site. I have sent Newsarama several e-mails asking why I am not able to post and have yet to get a reply.
Fred
Come to think of it, having Mr. David and Mr. Byrne posting back and forth on each other’s sites would be kind of pointless. It’s usually us lowly fans, who have too much of our egos tied up in our works, that engage in troll wars. We have the writing time to waste; the pro’s don’t.
They can get into Texas Chainsaw Death Match Interviews when they do panels at conventions, where they’re paid to do so. And then write the post-bloodbath coverage in the columns.
Membership in the JBF is strictly limited to fans of the work of John Byrne.”.
That is JB’s right, but it seems short sighted. If someone only comes on to contiually berate him, then I could see him saying enough is enough. If it means honest criticism is not allowed, then guess he just enjoys listening to the choir.
Jim in Iowa
Having already expressed my opinion about JB in a previous thread, so there’s not much point in doing so again. But I wanted to comment on the notion of there being too much political discourse on this site. With the hotly contested election only a week away, it’s virtually impossible to avoid the discussion anywhere. I went to a grand opening for my bank’s new branch a couple of Saturdays ago, where they were serving a bit of lunch, and instead of popping in and out, I ended sitting at a table with a bunch of total strangers for the the better part of an hour talking politics. If I wasn’t interested in a particular topic on this site, I’d probably just move on to the next one.
By the way Peter, I just want to thank you for your bookplate idea, which I promptly commandeered for my upcoming Farscape book. Since my publisher wasn’t doing an awful lot promotion-wise, I was able to contact some people who worked on the show and ask them to sign some bookplates for me. That way the fans get a better deal, the book gets a bit more attention, and everybody goes away happy. So thank you for the inspiration.
RE: Political comments
Let me state the obvious: It is PAD’s right to be as political as he wants in this blog, and I am not being forced to read it.
I started reading this blog about 6 or 8 months ago. While it is not primarily political, it is far more political than I expected (and sometimes in posts that are not clearly political from the title). This has changed how I read some of PAD’s works. What used to be entertaining wit now sometimes comes across as just cynicism. I read Supergirl (in the past) and Madrox (currently), but just never was able to accept Fallen Angel.
On the positive side, I know my conservative, Christian posts will not be deleted, and as a rule, most of the others on this site treat me respectfully even if they disagree. While I think conservatives and conservative values are sometimes misportrayed, it has been a learning experience to hear from “the other side” of the political/social/worldview fence.
Bottom line, I am probably buying fewer PAD books (sorry, the “Sir Apropos” series was just too cynical for me to read more than the first), but appreciate others that he is writing (such as the ST: New Frontiers series).
Jim in Iowa
“”And for the record, whether you believe me or not, I haven’t seen him [John Byrne] make any remarks about you [Peter David] on his board ever since it went “private”. So please don’t act like he’s ripping into you without the chance to defend yourself.” “
For the record, Byrne has commented on Peter David any number of times, and by name. He and several of the board regulars ripped into PAD for the changes he made to Byrne’s Wonder Girl in the pages of Young Justice. Whenever complaints about Spider-Man Chapter One come up, Byrne will mention Peter David’s story doing “the same thing” in PAD’s origin for the Ultimate Spider-Man anthology. He’s complained about Peter David’s dissing the Hulk Chapter One via the Rick Jones gag in an early Captain Marvel issue.
I’m just pointing this out. PAD’s name comes up plenty often on that blog, and Byrne does express some negative opinions about David’s work. Whether you agree with him or not, is for U to Decide of course, but it’s flat-out wrong to say that Byrne never mentions PAD on his new, “private”-ized board.
Jason
Just to point out, the Byrne board has over a thousand registered members and hundreds of active participants. This growth was not possible before the moderators imposed slightly more demanding requirements such as those on e-mail. From what I see, the controls has actually allowed more discussion and participation, having taken the power away from trolls and whatnot.
Am I the only one who immediately sees the acronym “JBF” as referring to something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than “John Byrne Forum”?
Could I be the ONLY ONE laughing so hard that I am almost falling out of my chair over this?
“Whenever complaints about Spider-Man Chapter One come up, Byrne will mention Peter David’s story doing “the same thing” in PAD’s origin for the Ultimate Spider-Man anthology.”
Well, then that’s just another instance of John not knowing what he’s talking about. The Spidey origin that he’s referring to was plotted by Stan Lee. It was a movie treatment which I simply adapted.
PAD