9:10 Got back late from bowling but am going to take another whack at a blog. This has been perceived as Darth Vader vs. Luke. Let’s remember that the first toe-to-toe in that battle went to Vader.
9:13 Nice that Cheney says that Osama is such a priority, considering Bush said that Osama is no longer a priority.
9:17 Edwards should really be emphasing that the “global test” is a philosophy dating back thousands of years, rather than acting defensively against Cheney’s charges of Kerry being weak on defense.
9:21 The hope was that Cheney would come across as cranky, irritable and old. Not happening so far. Thus far it’s still terrorism 24/7. But now Cheney is trying to back off and avoid repeating the more incendiary things he’s said, such as that we’re more likely to be attacked if Kerry’s in charge. Let’s see if Edwards nails him on that.
9:23 Edwards is still spending too much time defending Kerry rather than attacking Cheney. Ah, okay, now he’s talking about Cheney cutting weapons systems. Still, I wish that Edwards would make a mention comparing Cheney’s draft dodging versus Kerry’s service if we’re going to talk about track records.
9:28 Edwards is answering the question of how we’re going to get other countries to join in the reconstruction.
9:33 Thus far Edwards and Cheney are spending most of their time calling each other liars, which gets kind of tiresome. They’re both flinging around facts and figures that, I strongly suspect, are both wrong. It’d be nice if one of them could present an absolute slam dunk lie that would leave the other sputtering.
9:38 Cheney’s continuing to present himself carefully and well. Clearly he’s trying to avoid the gaffes, the impatience and profanity that’s gotten him press before.
9:39 Edwards should be doing this more and more: Hit on Cheney’s background with Halliburton.
9:41 This is in Edwards wheelhouse. The attorney slamming at an overinflated and dubious corporation.
9:43 It’ll be interesting to see if Cheney defends the Saudis.
9:45 Let’s see if Edwards has a comeback for the “Senator Gone” thing.
9:46 No, not really. He spent his time attacking Cheney’s voting record. On the one hand it was smart to be aggressive; on the other hand, it leaves Cheney’s charges unanswered.
9:49 Nice way that Edwards very offhandedly pointed out that Cheney hadn’t really answered the question about Cleveland.
9:50 Unfortunately Edwards isn’t really answering the question vis a vis Cleveland. Impressively, he actaully did a worse job answering it than Cheney.
9:57 No, freedom for everyone is not unrelated to the subject of gay marriage. Freedom means freedom.
9:58 This is the most bloodless political debate I’ve ever seen. It’s almost as if everyone’s TOO calm. The talk comes across as sharp, but there’s no passion.
10:00 Edwards is trying to walk an extremely fine line. I’m willing to bet that both Kerry and Edwards do believe in a right to gay marriage, but if they come out and say that, they risk offending…what? Seventy percent of the people? Still, I wish they had the guts to come out and say, Yeah, we support it, that’s one of the reasons we’re different from the GOP, we really believe government shouldn’t be telling people what they can’t do if they’re not hurting anybody.
10:02 This one is right in Edward’s wheelhouse as he answers the question about medical liability suits. His idea about holding lawyers responsible for frivilous lawsuits is extremely good. Definitely an Edwards win on this one.
10:08 Cheney turned the charge about increasing medicare back on Edwards with the comment about the 1997 law causing it (presuming that’s accurate…and since Edwards didn’t really have a comeback for it, I’m going to have to assume it was.)
10:11 Watching Cheney thus far compared to watching Bush during his debate should pretty much verify, once and for all, who is actually running the country.
10:15 I think it’d be cool if Edwards said, “I don’t have a long resume like Cheney’s. On the other hand, at least my resume doesn’t have me shaking hands with Saddam.”
10:22 Anyone notice that Edwards looks like he’s holding the buzzer to answer a “Jeopardy!” question?
10:18 I still have trouble not giggling considering George Bush as “commander in chief.” I keep thinking of him leaping into action on 9/11 in the Florida classroom. Watching Cheney, I can again see why Bush was able to sit around while Cheney leaped into action.
10:21 “The best defense is a good offensive.” Wow! I’ve never heard that before! What an original thought!
10:25 Cheney is making no effort to defend Bush’s flipflops. Let’s see if he does or if he just keeps attacking Kerry.
10:27 Cheney pretty much blew that question.
10:29 I suspect Texas democrats would have something to say about Bush allegedly having “reached across the aisle” in Texas to Democrats. I susp
10:30 Yes, exactly. Cheney saying he has no idea why America is so divided is just being disingenuous. Bush has consisted appealed to the most extreme factions of this country; how can he possibly wonder why such catering to right wing extremism and neocon philosophies could possibly splinter him from the rest of the electorate?
10:35 Good closing speech by Edwards.
10:36 Cheney plays the fear card. Naturally. Edwards speaks of hope; Cheney speaks of fear.
This one is much tougher to call. Edwards more often than not held his own, but Cheney simply came across as the more experienced statesman, even though I wouldn’t trust him further than I can throw him. Those who were hoping to see youthful exuberance triumph cleanly over a cranky elder were disappointed. As before, “winner” vs. “Loser” is still a fool’s game to call, but I think Cheney is going to benefit far more from this go-around than Edwards.
PAD
• 
For the past four years I’ve been trying to keep and open mind. I’ve consistently asked myself, “Despite the fact that I’m pretty much a dyed-in-the-wool left winger, is there anyting I’m reading/hearing (among various groups, such as the conservative NRO.com) that would convince me to change my mind and support Bush and Co. over the Democrats? (Actually, I generally vote Green first, then libertarian, then Democrat. I have voted for some republicans in the past who then let me down.) I haven’t been able to find anything. Are there any Bush supporters here that are willing to post, “What would make me change my mind, stop supporting Bush, and support his opponent:”?
“Are there any Bush supporters here that are willing to post, “What would make me change my mind, stop supporting Bush, and support his opponent:”?
yes. If Kerry could convince me that he has a plan to stabalize Iraq, foment a badly needed revolution in Iran and, if necessary, do wahtever it takes to eliminate the threat of North Korea.
Bush wants to do those things but I’m uncertain that he has a good plan to do so. Kerry…is all over the place. Too much of a crapshoot. The campaign has so emphasized the “I’m not Bush!” aspect that there has been little attention given to what Kerry is.
For some, not being Bush is quite enough. Not for me.
Also, on principle, I would insist on his opening all health records, his wife’s financial records, and his military records. Given the fact that we allow the president to have the power to turn us and our children into smouldering piles of ash with the touch of a button, I don’t think they have any right to keep secrets, thank you very much.
And yet most every other world leader was willing to wait to let the UN inspectors finish their job. Bush was not. Over a thousand American deaths later, we discovered that if the UN inspectors had been allowed to finish their job, they would have found nothing.
Finish their job? 12 years later and after countless roadblocks and you thought they were going to be allowed to “finish”? How many times were they turned away at inspection sites? How many inspection sites were warned due to the inspectors own rooms being bugged? How long before they were finished? Another 10 years?
The Hussein government was not cooperating with the inspections, they were doing everything they could to impede it. If Saddam had done what he had said he was going to to in 1991 – allow unfettered access to sites, destruction records, and material destruction observation – there would have been no question, no doubt and no need for a military response.
The rest of the world was happy to keep Hussein in power in order to line their own pockets. Typical two-sided diplomacy: rattle sabres at the UN, but take kickbacks on the other side.
Finish their job? 12 years later and after countless roadblocks and you thought they were going to be allowed to “finish”? How many times were they turned away at inspection sites? How many inspection sites were warned due to the inspectors own rooms being bugged? How long before they were finished? Another 10 years?
And yet, for all of the bullying and such on Hussein’s part, there were no WMD.
So, I’d have to say that the inspections were working.
And how’s this for news:
In the 90’s, Cheney pushed for sanctions against Iran to be removed. Why? To help Halliburton.
Looks like he’s had more important things on his mind than fighting terrorism over the last 15 years.
“Are there any Bush supporters here that are willing to post, “What would make me change my mind, stop supporting Bush, and support his opponent:”?
This opponent, nothing. Kerry lost any credibility with me when he decided to focus his acceptance speech on his Vietnam war hero status, and totally forgetting the part about getting out early, meeting with Viet Cong officials in France (while still in the navy) and telling outright lies about the actions he “witnessed and participated in”. Sure, it made him look good to the anti-war protesters, but it sure didn’t help the people being held in the Hanoi Hilton.
Followed by his totally unimpressive political career afterwards, there’s nothing in Kerry’s record that would make me want to vote for him. Maybe if the DNC would have waited a bit to let the primary process bring out a stronger candidate I wouldn’t be voting for Bush. But like so many of the people here, I’m not necessarily voting FOR the best candidate, but AGAINST the worst one, in my opinion.
The US political process has grown into a beast that will not allow a moderate from either party to rise to the top. McCain would be a better choice than Bush, but he’s not in the running.
**Also, on principle, I would insist on his opening all health records, his wife’s financial records, and his military records. Given the fact that we allow the president to have the power to turn us and our children into smouldering piles of ash with the touch of a button, I don’t think they have any right to keep secrets, thank you very much.**
But see, turnabout is fair play. Same with bush… it only took them forever to give us the paltry few records of his **cough** military records, and anything else we would want. But see, the president has Executive Privilige… which means, he doesn’t have to give us anything he doesn’t want to. And so he won’t. So demand from one, then demand from the other. Ask for all records of Bush’s past… and see how far it gets you.
Travis
Also, on principle, I would insist on his opening all health records, his wife’s financial records, and his military records. Given the fact that we allow the president to have the power to turn us and our children into smouldering piles of ash with the touch of a button, I don’t think they have any right to keep secrets, thank you very much.
This is rich, when you won’t get anything from the most secretive administration we’ve ever had.
This opponent, nothing. Kerry lost any credibility with me when he decided to focus his acceptance speech on his Vietnam war hero status, and totally forgetting the part about getting out early, meeting with Viet Cong officials in France (while still in the navy) and telling outright lies about the actions he “witnessed and participated in”.
He did not “witness and participate”. He was relating the facts other vets told him. By the way, why are you still complaining about this? It has been documented in numerous sources that atrocities DID occur in Vietnam.
You all keep talking about what plans Kerry has when he gets in office. I have never heard any candidate go into detail about their plans. Of the plans Bush set forth when he was running he has not delivered, or underfunded, or ignored all his campaign promises except tax cuts. When Kerry talks about the future in detail, people tune out and say he is pontificating. When he talks in generalizations, peple say he isn’t telling them enough. This administration’s policies have been disastrous for this country, yet all I hear is that Kerry has to prove himself. What had Bush proven before he went to office? Kerry has served this country in one capacity or another for most of his life. Bush had a “revelation” when he was 40. Kerry’s past shows he has more experience in his little finger than Bush had when he first sat in the oval office. Yet, some of you think Bush is the only person for the job because he is their now. No matter how badly he executes his position.
because he is their now
Sorry, should be there, not their.
After a few days of ruminating, my final opinion on the VP debate?
Cheney is more qualified than Edwards, but Edwards is more qualified than Bush.
How depressing. 🙁
“After Ðìçk Cheney had beaten Edwards about the head for a while during the debate, Edwards waved his girlish hands and said: ‘There are 60 countries who have members of al-Qaida in them. How many of those countries are we going to invade?’
The Democrats’ silver-tongued boy thought he had made a very clever point. In fact, I believe this is the first time we’ve gotten any Democrat to admit that the entire al-Qaida terrorist network is not living in a narrow mountainous path between Afghanistan and Pakistan.”
Democrats are now on the record: 60 countries harbor al-Qaida. But apparently the one nation that had managed to entirely purge itself of all al-Qaida members was Iraq
More…
“Edwards lamely boasted, ‘I would find terrorists where they are’
Karen says, re: Kerry
“He did not “witness and participate”. He was relating the facts other vets told him.”
Some of those “facts” were not. They were based on testimony of people who later turned out to have never actually been in Vietnam.
And actually he did claim to have witnessed and participated in events that he “later found” to be war crimes–like participating in Free fire zones, which he then defined as zones in which “in which we kill anything that moves
>Democrats are now on the record: 60 countries harbor al-Qaida. But apparently the one nation that had managed to entirely purge itself of all al-Qaida members was Iraq
James (dissapointingly) quotes Ann “Invade, Kill & Convert” Coulter:
Democrats are now on the record: 60 countries harbor al-Qaida. But apparently the one nation that had managed to entirely purge itself of all al-Qaida members was Iraq
As usual Coulter misses/ignores/obfuscates the point:
I certainly agree.
Saddam didn’t support Al Qaeda being in his country, but we invaded him.
If Al Qaeda is working in as many as 60 countries, any number of them could be supporting the terorrist group, and those should be the ones we target. It’s why we targetted the Taliban.
Coulter sounds like nothing more than a babbling idiot. Why she still gets paid to come up with this crap is beyond me.
Great Point Don,
Did you see the story in the papers and on the news the other day about how every American households share of the national debt is several hundred thousand dollars each?
Bush and the a-hold RNC wanna claim the dems want to raise taxes, but Bush has spent tons for nothing and put the country so far into debt it’s ridiculous.
Bring back Clinton for 8 more years…
Bush and the a-hold RNC wanna claim the dems want to raise taxes, but Bush has spent tons for nothing and put the country so far into debt it’s ridiculous
So do the Democrats. Once you looked at the so-called “off budget” items, the surplus was really still a deficit. It was an illusion created and spread by both parties.
Bringing back Clinton isn’t the answer. Tough choices are. We have to bite the bullet and realize that we cannot fund entitlements, defense, interest on the debt and discretionary spending at current levels indefinitely. The budgetary “arguments” are over 1/2 of 1% of the overall budget. Neither party is willing to make a touch choice – that’s why we overspend by 20% each year no matter which party is “in charge”.
Is anyone else made nervous by the rationale spelled out in the previous 3 or 4 comments? See if this scares you like it scares me:
Al Qaeda operatives can be found in as many as 60 contries.
Our own “experts” have just about totally discredited the justification of invading Iraq because they were an imminent threat that possessed or was close to possessing WMDs.
Leaving the main justification for our invasion the pursuit of terrorist cells (Al Qaeda) operating in Iraq.
So, if I’m one of those 60 countries that Al is hiding in, with our without my blessing, I’m getting real nervous. I’m thinking “I’d better find those terrorists and evict them.”
But, being a pragmatic leader, I’m also thinking “Will the US try to kill me too? Maybe I should start getting some allies so I/we can defend ourselves from the crazy Americans?”
Anyone else see the potential for a WWI/II escalation of treaties coming up?
Thank you Kingbobb, for voicing what I’ve been thinking.
America continues to be a loose-cannon cowboy, doing as it pleases, it’s gonna start spooking the rest of the world. And between our dependency on foreign oil, imported goods, and outsourced labor, can America afford to risk pìššìņg øff the rest of the world?
Because when the chips are downn, America CANNOT survive without the co-operation of the rest of the world.
For those of you who have been trying to fan the flames of the draft conspiracy, take note: On Tuesday, Oct. 5, The House of Representatives defeated H.R. 163, a bill to reinstitute the draft.
Just two representative out of 435 voted yes for it.
For those of you who have been trying to fan the flames of the draft conspiracy, take note: On Tuesday, Oct. 5, The House of Representatives defeated H.R. 163, a bill to reinstitute the draft.
Just two representative out of 435 voted yes for it.
Considering that said bill was snuck in by a Republican for the sole reason of very publicly voting it down as a PR stunt (the sponsor himself did not even vote for it) impresses no one, friend. It’s called pre-election grandstanding.
FYI the iraqi citizen who had the school plans on his disk:
Had NO ties to Al Qaeda,or the insurgents.
Did have ties to the iraqi education sytem and was looking into models of school policy that included evacuation plans and crisis management but the schools listed were never in any danger.
The man was just looking up information for (presumably)his JOB!
So i guess my “irresponsible” and “logic defying” comments were not so outrageous after all
William Shakespeare. Sonnet XIX
Devouring Time, blunt thou the lion’s paws,
And make the earth devour her own sweet brood;
Pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger’s jaws,
And burn the long-lived phoenix in her blood;
Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleets,
And do whate’er thou wilt, swift-footed Time,
To the wide world and all her fading sweets;
But I forbid thee one most heinous crime:
O, carve not with thy hours my love’s fair brow,
Nor draw no lines there with thine antique pen;
Him in thy course untainted do allow
For beauty’s pattern to succeeding men.
Yet, do thy worst, old Time: despite thy wrong,
My love shall in my verse ever live young.
William Shakespeare. Sonnet CXXXVIII
When my love swears that she is made of truth
I do believe her, though I know she lies,
That she might think me some untutor’d youth,
Unlearned in the world’s false subtleties.
Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
Although she knows my days are past the best,
Simply I credit her false speaking tongue:
On both sides thus is simple truth suppress’d.
But wherefore says she not she is unjust?
And wherefore say not I that I am old?
O, love’s best habit is in seeming trust,
And age in love loves not to have years told:
Therefore I lie with her and she with me,
And in our faults by lies we flatter’d be.