“The audience will remain absolutely silent for ninety minutes.” We’ll see about that.
Bush moved faster across the stage to make it seem as if he’s welcoming Kerry. So first cred for Bush.
9:06: Kerry answered the question directly and with animation, but looks directly at the moderator. Bush looks to Lehrer but spends most of his time looking directly into camera. His answer was a non-answer, but he looked good doing it. Bush then dodges the follow up question.
9:10: Bush thumps his podium repeatedly. New drinking game: Every time a podium is thumped, toss back a shot. Kerry has yet to look into the dámņëd camera. Ah! Okay, just for a second there. Bush looks bored. Bush continues to refer to “my opponent.”
9:18 Bush attempts to defend the multi-pronged battle against terrorism, but tends to wander and mixes up names (although points for getting that one Arab guy.) More podium thumping. Bush is now attempting to paint Kerry as flipflopping. Kerry could respond to it, but doesn’t really.
9:20 Kerry seems credible on how he would improve on homeland secruity. Bush tosses back credentials in terms of the money that he’s spent. However he’s left Kerry an opening in talking about how he established the Dept of Homeland Security…which was a Clinton idea and which Bush refused at first to establish. But Kerry missed the opening. Now Kerry is thumping the podium. Bush finished strong.
9:27 Kerry continues to use grass-root examples to illustrate points. Oooo…Kerry cites Bush Sr. I was wondering if he was going to do that. Now Bush is in an interesting situation. Does he stand there and diss his dad? Unfortunately Kerry isn’t actually responding to the original question about when and how to bring the troops home. Again Bush is trying to paint Kerry as being unsupportive. Kerry gets a good point about which is worse in terms of making mistakes, but he should have stopped talking right after that.
9:31: Kerry keeps speaking of pulling allies together, but doesn’t make entirely clear how he’s going to accomplish that other than that he’s different. Overall, his comments remain more cogent. Kerry is taking notes. Wonder what he’s going to say. Bush is starting to sound whiney. His voice is coming across as defensive. Bush keeps repeating the same phrases, claiming that for Kerry to disagree with what’s going on in Iraq is somehow “denigrating.”
9:35 Wait, what? Bush is saying that the reason we’re having all these problems in Iraq is because we did too GOOD a job with the invasion? What we’re dealing with is the result of efficiency? Uhm…okay. Kerry is now fighting back on the “denigrating” thing, but he’s leaving himself open because he said he would not have done everything the same…except he’s on record on saying he would have.
9:40 Kerry should avoid phrases like “I believe” and “I will try.” It makes him sound indecisive.
9:44 “Was it worth it.” This is the question that Kerry booted the other day with Diane Sawyer. Bush is now going for the human interest angle, and doing a good job. Kerry once again doesn’t address the notion of “was it worth it.” What the heck is his problem with answering this squarely? Say “Hëll no, it wasn’t worth it.” Create a clear demarcation between him and Bush. I’m also starting to get pìššëd øff that Lehrer that he is letting Bush steamroll into rebuttals. Especially since Bush is merely reiterating what he said before. Kerry’s thirty second rebuttal is stronger than Bush’s.
9:53 Goddammit, Lehrer, will you rein in Bush. He keeps jumping in at will.
9:54 “The enemy attacked us.” But not Iraq! This is typical of the blurring Bush has done that convinced 3/4 of this country that Saddam attacked on 9/11. “A President has to be willing to use force.” That’s not the problem. The problem is that by all accounts he was eager to use force.
9:56 Yes! Yes! Kerry hit the same line I did. Bush left a wide opening and this time Kerry grabbed it. Very solid response. And yet again Bush jumps in to have the last word. And Kerry makes an incredibly sound point in response. That round to Kerry.
10:00 “I’m not sure what he means by passes the global test?” Kerry made it pretty clear, so I don’t know what Bush doesn’t get. Bush is now defending the notion of not joining the global criminal court. Huh? Ðámņ, I wish Kerry would push for a 30 second response.
10:03 Bush seems fatigued and wandering. He’s stopped looking into camera and instead at Lehrer. Lehrer is now starting to take a firmer hand, taking the time to try and delineate the difference between Bush and Kerry in regards to Korea.
10:10 The audience is remaining quiet. Wow. For the first time, Bush refers to him as “Senator Kerry” in the question about character. Bush is walking a real tight rope on this one. I hope they stop trying to make jokes; the silence is getting embarrassing. Bush is once again playing the flip flop card. Now Kerry can either be aggressive and attack Bush, or he can be defensive to answer the uncertainty issue.
10:13 “Certainty sometimes can get you in trouble.” Wonder how that will play in Peoria. Is Bush insinuating that Kerry has been changing his “core values?”
10:17 Kerry is so confident he can say “nuclear” that he says “nuclear proliferation” twice in a row. Bush tries to say it and misses. Again Lehrer is clarifying matters, which is good.
10:24 A discussion on Russia is deteriorating into a reiteration of Korea and yet more about Saddam. It’s like the whole thing has gone off the rails.
10:26 Kerry is now looking directly into camera for his final comments. He’s got to do more of that in the next two. Bush gets in some last minute podium thumping. The “valley of peace” line isn’t bad. Nice imagery.
Be sure to tune in to “The Daily Show” and their live coverage. And boy, I can’t wait for the VP debate.
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Interesting that the rules state that no “reaction shots” but on CSPAN they are showing a split screen. Bush looks rather disgusted with Kerry’s answer.
Nice out-sourcing comment. So far evens, I think.
The criticism twitching begins. Bush really looks uncomfortable while his opponent speaks of him.
“Pre-September 10th mentality”?
Did Bush forget a certain date??
…. while Kerry looks almost amused at the president’s responses regarding him.
Interesting note that Bush immediately takes on the arrogance when speaking, while it falls away when he doesn’t have control over what is being said.
Credibility with allies to bring them back? They’ve already said they won’t send them if Kerry is elected.
Am trying the PAD drinking game suggestion. Will get back to you.
The split screen is because the group filming the debate decided the rules were stupid and the american people had a right to see both candidates…
Amen, Ra.
Actually, this drinking makes it a more enjoyable experience–less worried about the guy I support screwing up, more concerend with getting my shotglass filled with Baileys Irish Cream. Barkeep!
“A free Iraq qill be A ally”?
Does the everyman persona include really bad english.
Oddly, while listening to this debate, Paul Simon’s One Trick Pony keeps popping into my head.
Don’t forget to take a shot whenever Kerry alludes to Vietnam. “I know what it’s like”
So, Bush– mission not accomplished, eh?
No ally response….. Britain and Poland….? uh oh
whoa, Bush gets an extra rebuttal? so much for rules…
Am now drinking when both men hit the podium. Jim Leher is a very handsome man. Leher. Funny word. Leher.
Huh? Bush Reasoning for miscalculations: We were TOO good, so we got the big bad later?
I think Kerry ahead slightly – probably more if he just lets Bush talks.
John
It would be nice if Kerry would look at the camera…
Ra
Ouch – Bush just itemized dates for Kerry supporting Iraq.
Not a problem if Kerry would simply hit the “inconsistant” barb straight on with facts behind position change…. funding for troop support bill changes, etc.
8:45pm central time
So far, I’m leaning towards Kerry, because Bush’s record overseas, especially on the war, is far from spotless.
However it is starting to get repetitive, especially Bush’s answers. Hope they switch topics soon.
So hey, Peter, what would be the first thing you’d ask Kerry and Bush if you had the chance? Just out of curiosity.
Queen:
>So hey, Peter, what would be the first thing you’d ask Kerry and Bush if you had the chance? Just out of curiosity.
Not Peter, but the most obviously revealing might be to ask both, “What has been your greatest failure?”
ok, does anyone think his whole thing about “is it worth it?” sound like something he doens’t even believe?
ooh! website plug!
uh… Kerry almost pulled a Howard Dean..
how many times can Bush say “wrong war?” hope the news turns it into a sound bite…
Ra!
Oh, thank God Lehrer just made Kerry be specific…I hope he does the same for Bush. This is what *I* want to hear instead of mudslinging…I want to hear WHAT they’re going to do in the war that’s different from what their opponent’s plan is.
“The brave leader of Iraq” is now the subject of Bush’s criticism of Kerry. This leader’s citizens are consistantly rejecting his “things are better now”.
I still can’t rule out that Kerry may be telling me (as a voter) what I want to hear, but he certainly sounds better than Bush.
Without repeating himself, the way Bush has been, Kerry’s been consistent within the debate. He also speaks in specifics and not in cliche.
My decision was to vote for Kerry before the debate, but I have to admit that the debate’s made me feel cozy with the choice.
Another part of the drinking game: You chug one every time Bush refers to Kerry’s position on Iraq as “wrong place, wrong time, wrong war.” As I write this you’d have chugged one FOUR times. He’s also stated that “my opponent looked at the same intelligence that I did” regarding Hussein’s WMD’s TWICE.
He’s also wasted time saying empty things like “I know what it’s like being Commander in Chief,” and “It’s necessary to win the War on Terror.”
And of course, he also responded to what Kerry said about Osama bin Laden with a Straw Man Argument, by saying that Osama doesn’t get to “decide” what the U.S. does, which is not what Kerry said.
Any other entries to the Tote Board?
never wanted to commit troops?!?
he’s been wanting to go to Iraq since he got in office… grr… man
the enemy attacked us? i didn’t know Iraq attacked us…
Ra!
Thank you John!! My “Saddam attacked us?!?!?” fuming must have reached you. 😉
Hey! Yeah, you! Well I say, the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 did NOT effectively moot the demarcation linen of the Missouri compromise! And anyway, Article IV, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution already specifically provids for the formation of new states through the junction or division of existing states! You wanna take this outside?
I sometimes wonder if President Bush ever went into AA or whether he is still in “a program”. Some very common symptoms of an acoholic is black and white thinking, an inability to admit wrongdoings, and the disease typically stunts emotional growth at the time when the substance abuse first began.
I’m gonna guess that Jr. began abusing alcohol in his early teens.
Sadly, he continues to give me the impression that, although he is no longer drinking, he is still stuck in the alcoholic mindset.
*Not meant to be an insult, as I work with substance abusers regularly. Merely an observation that has become more solidified by watching this debate.*
“I’m not sure what The Global Test is.” Someone better tell Bush where the globe is. Bush seems to nay-say the fact that if a country declares war on another, the globe might be interested. Seems anxious. Still think Kerry ahead on points but nothing definitive.
John
Just curious. Can someone help me understand how North Korea’s stubbornness and current position is “an injustice towards America”?
The sad thing is Bush won the debate, the thing people forget is they pulled these ambush tactics before on Al Gore. Republicans went around before the debate lowering people’s expectations so that if Bush didn’t fall off the stage he’s look like a winner.
The thing is, like Reagan and Clinton he knows how to play the camera, the big grinning retard is gonna win again because the Reds are incapable of being swayed by anything short of an apocalypse.
Tired…so tired…shcrew you guys…shcrew ALL you guys…I’m goin home…
Thanks for your continued, thoughtful responses Bill. You’ve really made me stop to reconsider the current administration’s stance. 😉
*Drink lots of water before passing ou…um, going to sleep.*
I gave up watching. While both candidates are pitching their answers towards what they want to say, rather than necessarily, y’know, answering the question, I’ve come to the conclusion that given a database of about 100 sound bites and a random number generator/Eliza combo, I could write a program that would emulate Bush’s performance in this. It reached the point that I was hallucinating seeing the hamster s-l-o-w-l-y turning the wheel in his head (right around the “global test” bit).
I love how Bush can throw out names that no one has ever heard off, but can’t have the respect to say Kerry’s name… I think anyone who says my opponent should be removed from the ballot… (uh i think the shots are getting to me… stop tapping..)
Ra!
There it is again, “I just know how this world works.” Nobody can do the job that I can, because they just don’t understand.
So the debate can be summed up, essentially, with:
BUSH: My opponent is inconsistent.
KERRY: This president is repetitive.
BUSH: My opponent is inconsistent.
Heh.
As Kerry is going off about nuclear proliferation (which he can at least PRONOUNCE…), is anybody else having massive flashbacks to the first half-hour of Superman IV?
Kerry had a point, though – if we lay down a law that no one except America is allowed to have nuclear weapons, how is that going to make the rest of the world feel? I’d be nervous if I was any other country…
Proliferation. I was betting one of them wouldn’t be able to pronounce that correctly. Both passed.
No bias here.
I hate to say it, but if China doesn’t want North Korea to develop nukes, then I agree with Pres. Bush that we want to keep China at the table. They certainly have more influence over North Korea than the U.S.
wow, Russia, that’s who we want for an ally… oh and the wanting to take away democratic rights, does anyone remember the patriot act?
Relation? yes… that’s right, we all shud hav goot relation with others…yea Vladomer..
hmm.. it’s really not hard to learn the names of those you supposedly have good relations with…
Ra!
Okay, now Bush has said that Kerry looked at the same intelligence that he did THREE times.
To be fair, Kerry talked about how we have shouldered 90% of the costs and 90% of the casualties twice.
oh my stars, Kerry’s lookin at the camera! shame it’s the end of the debate…
sorry for the double post..
Ra!
Okay. I’m no Bush fan. I think, ultimately, he didn’t screw up, but he certainly won’t have won ovr anyone new. Probably had a better closing speech, but pretty much rhetoric. Kerry possibly did convert a few, but probably not a lot.
At least Kerry looked into camera at last…
Did Kerry say anything new? Did he say anything of substance?
He has a plan? How about gives us some details of realistic ideas?
Content: Toss-up
Style: Kerry