I think the following would be an interesting script for a commerical for a Democratic activist group:
1) Footage of Candidate Bush stating that he’s against nation building.
2) Footage of dead and dying American soldiers and dead and dying Iraqis, including some of that brutal footage from “F 9/11.”
3) Footage of Bush declaring “MIssion Accomplished.”
4) Footage of headlines declaring over a thousand Americans killed.
5) Footage of Candidate Bush stating that he supported the assault weapon ban.
6) Footage of newspaper headlines about the assault ban treaty being lifted without a word of protest from the White House, intercut with dead and dying young people or terrorists fighting assault weapons.
7) Footage of Bush saying that he’s keeping us safer. Freeze Frame, and the following words appear:
“While he’s lyin’, we’re dyin’.”
Paid for by the Committe of People Who Don’t Want to See More People Die On George Bush’s Watch.
Just a passing thought.
PAD
• 
I think the apostrophe in place of the “g” makes it sound rather glib, but other than that it sounds no worse than the many other Democratic ads I’ve seen suggested on other liberal blogs. The thing is, though, I’m personally not sure how well any of these ads work at this point, it seems like people who are voting for Bush are bound and determined to do so no matter what facts are raised. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t keep raising them, but I just have my doubts as to whether any of them are effective with people whose minds are closed and made up to begin with…
I was going to vote for the Constitution Party’s candidate for president but thanks to Mr. Moore, Moveon.org, the Dem’s 527 ads, and this stupid “anybody but Bush” mentality from the left has changed my mind. George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left. The left thought they were energizing their base, but all they did was fire up the right…not smart.
So, PAD, I’d love to see your ad on tv. Add it to the list of crap and hate the left has been pumping into tv, movies, books, etc. All their hard work is really paying off:
WASHINGTONPOSTWABCNEWS Poll, John F. Kerry was viewed favorably by 36 percent of registered voters, down 18 points over the past six months.
Kerry finds himself in a dead heat with Martha Stewart and Joseph McCarthy, and behind Herbert Hoover…although he narrowly beats O.J. Simpson.
I’m personally not sure how well any political ads work at this point, it seems like people who are voting for Kerry are bound and determined to do so no matter what facts are raised. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t keep raising them, but I just have my doubts as to whether any of them are effective with people whose minds are closed and made up to begin with…
this stupid “anybody but Bush” mentality from the left has changed my mind. George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left.
Well, there’s a mature reason to vote for the leader of the free world.
Not because of ability.
Not because of a plan to save manufacturing jobs in the US
Not because of a plan to improve health care in the US
But because of spite.
Yes, that’s really a responsible reason to vote.
Pity.
Keep your pity to yourself.
You want to talk about voting out of spite? How many people who normally vote green will vote for Kerry this year? The Dems were hard on Nadar and asked him a thousand times not to run. Why? Because they wanted the Green vote. They’d hate to see the Greens vote their heart and lose any precious votes.
I like George W. Bush. I think he has done a fantastic job. What he has or hasn’t done was not my reason for wanting to vote for the Constitution Party. I voted for Bush the first time and thanks to the left I’ll be voting for him again.
Richard:
>this stupid “anybody but Bush” mentality from the left has changed my mind. George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left.
>Well, there’s a mature reason to vote for the leader of the free world.
Are you saying that the rationale for your, and others you know for a fact, vote for Bush is any different than the Left that you are attacking? How is “voting for anyone but Bush” any less mature than “voting for Bush in response to a group of people’s rationale for voting against him”?
Not bad, PAD. But I like the suggestions from DailyKos – using Bush’s “Ownership Scoiety” against him and getting him to “own up” to the mess on his watch:
“Mr. president, Colin Powell told you about this war that ‘if you break it, you own it.’ And now you’re going around talking about an ‘ownership society.’ Well, Mr. President, let me tell you what you own. A million jobs lost. You own that. A thousand soldiers lost. You own that. 1.4 million new people living below the poverty line. You own that. 1.2 million less people covered by health insurance. You own that. A seventeen percent medicare increase. You own that. Health care costs skyrocketing. You own that. The tax burden increasing amongst the middle class. You own that. Mr. President, if you want to talk about an ownership society, let’s talk about what you own.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/13/143648/865
If John Kerry wants to be president he needs to take the advice that Bill Clinton offered before undergoing heart surgery. Kerry needs to focus less on Vietnam and more on domestic issues. I think the fact that a lot of people aren
I’m not voting for Kerry out of spite. I’m doing it because I honestly believe that the current president has done a terrible job, both domestically and with foreign policy.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this election, I’m a Yellow Dog Democrat; if the party runs a yellow dog against Mr. Bush, I’ll vote for it.
If the attacks from moderate Republicans, Centrist Democrats and (yes) Liberals seem spiteful, it’s indicative of the level of anger created by Mr. Bush’s stated policies, not to mention the discrepancies of his public statements versus his actions.
By the bye, I need to mention to whom it may concern…the “Preview” key doesn’t seem to work.
It may just be my computer, but when I clicked on it, it just reopened this page with my comments in the “Comments:” box, not an actual preview.
Thanks.
Man a lot of people have a definition of hate and spite that’s extremely strident. There’s certainly a few percent on both sides that’s nasty and hateful but I don’t see how expressing a strong dislike for the policies and performance of the incumbent qualifies as “attack.”
Why is calling Kerry a flip-flopper for saying something and later saying something different any more fair than criticizing an incumbent for saying one thing and doing another?
“I was going to vote for the Constitution Party’s candidate for president but thanks to Mr. Moore, Moveon.org, the Dem’s 527 ads, and this stupid “anybody but Bush” mentality from the left has changed my mind. George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left”
Of course there are no such equivilent attacks from the right. No Mr Limbaugh, no Mr O’Reilly, no Mr Savage, no Mrs Coulter, no ‘Swift Boat Veterens For Truth’
“I’m personally not sure how well any political ads work at this point, it seems like people who are voting for Kerry are bound and determined to do so no matter what facts are raised. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t keep raising them, but I just have my doubts as to whether any of them are effective with people whose minds are closed and made up to begin with…”
Yes, exactly. That’s exactly how I feel…except, y’know, substitute the name “Bush” for “Kerry”…
PAD
“Why is calling Kerry a flip-flopper for saying something and later saying something different any more fair than criticizing an incumbent for saying one thing and doing another?”
It’s not.
The thing is, I really don’t have trouble with the notion of politicians changing their minds about issues. But Bush has chosen to cite that as a weakness when it comes to Kerry. So if it’s a weakness, then it has to cut both ways.
PAD
I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating..
If it wasn’t for the get out the vote campaigns by the 527s, this election would have the lowest turnout in years. Why?
Because for the first time I can recall, we have an election where BOTH candidates are unpopular. I haven’t looked recently, but for the longest time, Bush’s approval rating was below 50% and so was Kerry’s favorable view rating.
What this means is that no matter who wins, it is probable that more than half of the people he will be govering will not like him. Sheesh, talk about losing by winning.
As far as commercials, here’s my plan (and both sides get to do it).
The basis of the campaign is “Are you better off now then you were 4 years ago.” Each side gets to use billboards, commercials, news ads, whatever. The only rule is that any stats used in the ad must come from a non-partisan source.
For example (Sample Kerry Ads)
2000: US military Deaths : 12 (this is a made up number for example purposes)
2004: US military Deaths: 456
(Sample Bush Ads)
2000: Average Home Ownership: 47%
2004: Average Home Ownership: 54%
(Again, sample, I don’t know the exact numbers, but it has been a statistically significant increase)
People can then look at CURRENT stats that mean something to them and make an informed decision. If you think things are better now or the same, vote Bush. If you think things are worse, vote Kerry. It really is that simple.
He who lives by the flip, dies by the flop?
George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left.
Sure, sure, it’s always the left.
Or did you not catch any of the SBV ads?
Was Cheney’s comments about another 9/11 not enough to show that the only thing they’re doing is playing the negatives about Kerry?
Bush doesn’t even attempt to focus on what he’s done, other than the fact he bombed the šhìŧ out of Afghanistan and Iraq.
So if it’s a weakness, then it has to cut both ways.
And yet, people have been too stupid to see that Bush is as much of a “flip flopper” as Kerry has been.
But hey, Bush doesn’t have to say he’s flip flopped on the issue of nation building, because he hasn’t DONE any rebuilding – only blown šhìŧ up.
“Welcome back for another 4 years, President Bush. Here’s your next target.”
Fred C: Are you saying that the rationale for your, and others you know for a fact, vote for Bush is any different than the Left that you are attacking? How is “voting for anyone but Bush” any less mature than “voting for Bush in response to a group of people’s rationale for voting against him”?
No, I was simply responding to James T saying:this stupid “anybody but Bush” mentality from the left has changed my mind. George W. Bush will now get my vote and I know for a fact others are being moved to vote for the President because of the attacks from the left.
With that statement, he said that he and others are voting for Bush BECAUSE of the attacks from the left.
James T: Keep your pity to yourself.
The pity wasn’t aimed at you (in particular), it was aimed at a decision to vote for a candidate NOT for the issues, but because of “attacks from the left”.
It’s a pity that what should be an adult, and mature decision has become nothing more than name calling and childish rants.
James T: I like George W. Bush. I think he has done a fantastic job
Well why the hëll didn’t you just say that and be done with it? Why even bring up the “left” or the “anybody but Bush” mentality from some?
James T: I voted for Bush the first time and thanks to the left I’ll be voting for him again.
??
Now what the hëll does that mean???
You said that you think Bush has done a fantastic job.
Great, fine, but then you say “thanks to the left…” Thanks for what?
If you agree so much with what a cndidate or incumbent has done, why should the opinions of anyone else, left or right, sway your vote???
Not because of a plan to save manufacturing jobs in the US
Not because of a plan to improve health care in the US>
And Kerry has a plan? Seems to me that if that is your criteria, you really should vote for either of the big 2. Kerry hasn’t offered ANYTHING solid, just ill-defined pipe dreams.
Chip S.:And Kerry has a plan? Seems to me that if that is your criteria, you really should vote for either of the big 2. Kerry hasn’t offered ANYTHING solid, just ill-defined pipe dreams.
Why are you assuming that I’m voting for Kerry?
Hëll, WHERE in my post did I state ANY preference for either candidate???
Did you actually read my post???
I’ll try to make it simple.
I was responding to a post that stated that he was voting for a cndidate because of the “actions” by the left.
Voting out of spite, as it were.
While I realize that it’s difficult to try to get points across on line, but I was TRYING to establish that voting for the leader of the free world should come down to WHAT can be accomplished and ther bettermeant of the people of this country, NOT because what the “left”, or for that matter, the “right” are whining about.
Richard wrote:
“Not because of ability. Not because of a plan to save manufacturing jobs in the US; Not because of a plan to improve health care in the US; But because of spite. Yes, that’s really a responsible reason to vote.”
The thing about partisan bickering is that the bickerees often cannot see the forest for the trees.
What do I mean? Well, yesterday, in the Chicago Sun-Times, a Democratic columnist on Page 3 was going over some of the things she says Kerry should be doing to get re-elected. During her discourse, she cites her fear that if Bush is re-elected and attorney general John Ashcroft gets to come back after the election, he’ll continues to trample on the civil liberties of Americans (an indirect reference to The Patriot Act).
Ironically, on the facing Page 4 of the same issue, there is a big article, with a screaming headline, announcing the (Democratic) mayor’s new plan to install 2,250 cameras throughout Chicago to deter crime (this plan was also endorsed by an editorial in the Sun-Times today).
Considering the advanced state of facial recognition software available today, which do you think is more invasive to privacy and civil liberties on a day-to-day basis?
Personally, I’m not bothered by either the camera program or the Patriot Act, but I am bothered by people who only show their indignation when it follows party lines. That isn’t free-thinking — that’s being a partisan zombie.
R. Maheras:
I am bothered by people who only show their indignation when it follows party lines. That isn’t free-thinking — that’s being a partisan zombie.
Well said.
I’d be all for the ad. Of course, I think it would drive up Kerry’s unfaivorable ratings, so you might take that with a grain of salt.
If I were advising Kerry–and he could (and has) done worse–I’d advise against any use of F9/11 in any ads. I think he’s already getting the Michael Moore vote. Using him will only turn off further those who are not fans of Moore’s work (and also really pump up the Right).
I really thought that Kerry was pulling ahead a few weeks back, but lately all the talk from his “supporters” has been A–What he SHOULD be doing; B- how stupid the average voter is and C–just wait and see how the Republicans steal this election.
When an opponent is already thinking about defeat before the battle is fought you have to give the likelihood of victory to the other side.
I for one am sick of hearing about losing manufacturing jobs. Guess what… they don’t matter.
This is no longer an industrial nation. The idustrial revolution has come and gone… it’s place is in third world countries now. The is the technology and information age and that is what we should be focusing on.
The fact of the matter is that in a decadge or so there wont BE any more factory jobs because everything will be done by robotics and computers. Blue collar workers slaving for minimum wage on the assembly line just won’t exist in any large number.
What everyone SHOULD be focusing on is the fact that education and job skill training in this country suck. Honestly, it’s horrible.
Our education system needs a total overall… yes I know they always TALK about education in election years, but the fact of the matter is its pretty much out of the hands of the president and federal government, as it’s all local school boards and the god awful teachers unions that drive the systems into the ground. I say scrap it. Overhaul it from the ground up. Raise standards and expectation, fire teachers that are no good, raise pay for good teachers, and make college an expected follow up to high school for everyone… which of course means the government is hand out a lot more assitance.
The other side of the coin is job training. Companies don’t do it anymore. Everyone has become so greey and shortsighted that they are no longer willing to spend a little time and money in the present to invest in the future. We have a huge untrained workforce, and an even larger one that needs retraining. They shouldn’t be expected to pay for it all out of pocket.
But of course it’s another election year, and the same pointless bûllšhìŧ all over again….
Big business has for some time now neglected any responsibility to their stockholders, employees, customers, and the environment. In these last 4 years they not only were given a free ride, they were given the car they were riding in. You can rant all you want about manufacturing jobs (and I agree completely about needing to focus on education and job skills to compete in the coming years) but until we hold the corporations more accountable their greed is going to continue to line the pockets of a few, while not investing a dime in their workers or this country.
Mike:I for one am sick of hearing about losing manufacturing jobs. Guess what… they don’t matter.
That is one of the most stupid comments that I’ve ever heard (read)
They don’t matter.
Tell that to the people of the manufacturing jobs in Pennsylvania, or Oho, or Missouri or any state in this country.
Tell that to the men and women over 40, or 45 or 50, hey too bad, but according to Mike your jobs don’t matter. Now go and learn a new skill or new technology, because “idustrial revolution has come and gone”
Mike: Our education system needs a total overall
Of course it does Mike, but that does squat for the generation that are currently trying to live and work in this country.
Where’s your answer for them?
But like you said Mike, ” it’s another election year, and the same pointless bûllšhìŧ all over again….”
Real peoples lives don’t really matter
Karen wrote:
“Big business has for some time now neglected any responsibility to their stockholders, employees, customers, and the environment.”
This is a generalization, and from my recent personal experience, one that is not true.
Three years ago, I worked for an appliance manufacturer whose huge manufacturing plant was located in the middle or rural Iowa, adjacent a beautiful nature preserve, lake and wetlands area. The plant used well water, and its state-of-the-art (and expensive) water treatment facility was so advanced, the water that was eventually discharged after use and treatment was cleaner than what came out of the well. Engineers at the plant also created a closed loop cooling system for plant machinery to drastically reduce water consumption. In addition, the plant’s separate sewage treatment facility actually treated the sewage of the nearby town, instead of vice versa. Finally, the company’s emergency power generator plant was designed to supply nearby towns with power should the normal power grid be interrupted by lightning or other power glitches. Hardly seems to fit your definition of corporate America.
As a matter of fact, I’ll bet plenty of people drive by that plant, set in the middle of rural Iowa and, in ignorance, curse its very existence — even though it provides hundreds of high-paying manufacturing jobs at a time when manufacturing jobs in America are on the wane.
I’ll admit that I haven’t really paid that much attention to what other people have said during an election season, but to me it seems like this campaign has really divided people along near-violent lines. This current administration has been plagued from the start, and I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that it continues to be plagued.
I do have to say that of all the reasons I’ve heard to support Bush, “he’s being attacked, and I want to stick up for him” has got to be the lamest. Most people I hear speaking in support of Bush sound like Republican mouth pieces, spouting off one-liners straight from the Bush-Cheney website. The problem is, I haven’t heard a single person be able to go beyond the soundbite and discuss how that list of accomplishments has actually benefited or improved our country, as a whole.
And the worst thing is, showing many of those people the “truth,” that is, factual discussions of what impacts this administration actually has had, both good and bad, doesn’t do one bit of good.
There’s a storm, comin’, people, and I’m not talkin’ ’bout Ivan….
When it comes to people and voting, I have my pick and others have theirs. I respect that and I hope others will respect me on it.
This past weekend, I was at my club leader’s house folding flyers and getting some prep work done for our convention. Me and a friend were discussing John Kerry, since we’re both voting for him, when our leader’s wife started the rhetoric of the purple hearts getting Kerry a desk job out of Vietnam. This ticked me off royally. I realized that all she had done was to listen to the media about the candidate.
Why am I voting for Kerry? Because it’s time for someone different at the helm of our country. As another poster said, all Bush has done is campaign on his war effort and of 9/11 related actions. I want someone that cares about where we are, where we’re heading, and what we can become. I think that Kerry is the choice for that.
Folks talk about Bush and his faith and of how he’s ‘restored decency to the White House.’ All because of an infidelity has Clinton’s eight years of office been wiped away.
I’ve given Bush the benefit of four years to show how he could bring us to higher places, and I think I don’t want to give him four more to keep trying to do that.
Over ten thousand US citizens have been hurt, maimed, or killed over in Iraq now. A thousand are dead, but the rest are amputees or wounded. Its a number I think the media should be discussing a bit more.
That’s my $0.02 and I’m glad I have a chance to share it.
As a matter of fact, I’ll bet plenty of people drive by that plant, set in the middle of rural Iowa and, in ignorance, curse its very existence — even though it provides hundreds of high-paying manufacturing jobs at a time when manufacturing jobs in America are on the wane.
I’d be interested in knowing where this plant was located.
I’ve seen other plants that, well, make you wish that more manufacturing jobs were lost (Cargill springs to mind), but, contrary to Mike’s ignorance, these jobs are important. Particularly in the Midwest and through the Ohio River Valley as was mentioned.
But, even if the jobs could be lost… guess what? We’re losing our information tech jobs too, and they’re not being replaced fast enough either.
If you’re going to choose to base your diet on apples and orange, and you throw your apples away, you better make sure you have enough oranges around so you don’t starve.
Unfortunately, that’s not the case with our national economy right now.
RJM,,
I appreciate the passion but how exactly DO we get the manufacturing jobs back? People will NOT pay 2 or 3 times the cost of items just so they can buy American. As long as Wal-Mart or any other retailer is able to advertise that they are selling Indonesian made widgets at half the cost of their competitor’s widgets, more people will shop there.
So we’d have to have an embargo on foreign goods. They would retaliate against us. Which would lead to more job losses on both sides, kind of defeating the purpose.
If there is a good solution to this problem I haven’t heard it. Mike’s statement is blunt and may come off as insensitive but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily untrue.
More food for thought:
“The U.S. information tech sector lost 403,300 jobs between March 2001 and this past April, and the market for tech workers remains bleak, according to a new report.
Perhaps more surprising, just over half of those jobs
Bill,
Well, that’s kind of the point that I was making before. I read the earlier post by James Tichy and his picking our leader by spite. And I hear the radio and TV pundits describing this election to be nothing more than “my guy” over “your guy” because inane, benign reasons.
But never do any of the candidates tackle the REAL problems or to try to solve these issues.
If I knew the answers, I’d run for office.
But you would think, that these gentlemen and ladies, college graduates all, would have the intelligence to come up with solutions to the countries problems.
And you know what? BIG Business be Damed!
Sometimes it’s more about the american people being able to live a contributional life than to make a couple extra million.
But I took issue to Mike’s insensitive remark, because he sounds like so many of the radio and TV voices. Not giving a dámņ about the people of this country, just caring about their own wallet.
R. Maheras,
Perhaps I should have said a majority of big business. I know there are some conscientious corporations out there. When you look at the big corporations as a whole, well, I bet the percentage of those who do give back are far smaller than any of us would like. I wonder if the percentage even gets into double digits? But why don’t we talk about businesses who declare no dividends while paying enormous salaries to the few on top, or about the thousands who lost any retirement because of shady practices, or the current push for “tort reform” so they have even less responsiblilty for the harm their products cause, since the penalty will be minimal, or the lastest bid by this administration to gut controls so companies are not only free to pollute, but don’t even have to worry about cleaning up their mess. Sorry about the run on sentence.
Jason H,
Well said. I have yet to meet anyone who has truly benefitted from the current policies. I guess I don’t travel in those rarified circles. But one thing they are very good at is getting people to believe the worst of their opponents. If I were voting only on soundbites they would win hands down. Since I am voting for real issues, Kerry wins every time. I don’t want to vote for their brand of fear mongering. I want to vote for a better future.
Bill,
Well, one part of Kerry’s plan is tax incentives to companies that keep jobs here. There is a part of the solution. Wal-Mart keeps it’s prices low, but pays it’s employees almost nothing, gives few benefits at very high cost to the employee, won’t allow workers to unionize for a better future, and drives many small businesses into bankruptcy in the places it sets up. Is that the America you want to live in? Where all corporations do business that way? Yes, prices may go up, but so will quality of life for many.
Dig it!
Delare yourself a 527 and get that ad on the airwaves!
Mark W.
PAD wrote:
>The thing is, I really don’t have trouble with >the notion of politicians changing their minds >about issues. But Bush has chosen to cite that >as a weakness when it comes to Kerry. So if >it’s a weakness, then it has to cut both ways.
I would suggest that the problem is not that this doesn’t cut both ways, it is that you are comparing apples to oranges.
Bush has changed his mind on some issues. Bush has had to “clarify” (spin, whatever you want to call it), some issues. But there are few examples that go to core issues of what he says he believes. Rather, they are ways to implement those policies, or similar issues.
My point: Give me just one example where Bush has backed down on tax cuts? Give me just one example where he has backed down on his opposition to abortion on demand? Give me just one way he has changed and told one group he is for gun control, then told another he is not.
Bush has a core belief. Iraq is a good example. Bush may now be emphasizing more (at least in the minds of some) the reasons for the war, but he is unwavering in his belief that the war was right and necessary. Agree or disagree, have some conspiracy theory that he made everything up (and ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary), I don’t care. His core belief about the war has not changed.
Kerry has not done the same. Forget the silly quote about voting for the war before he was against it. Look at the numerous staments he made over a number of years that Saddam was a clear threat. (In one press interview, he said he was AHEAD of his fellow Democrats in pushing for immediate action.) What he says now changes. Perhaps his core conviction is still the same, but for the average person (not the political junkies such as you or me), it is not clear. I would suggest the flip/flop charge sticks because it is true. But even if not, it is Kerry’s inability to express and maintain a clear conviction on core issues. (I won’t bother listing them since there is an “excuse” for each of them that makes things worse.)
Back to your original post. I do not consider it a “flip/flop” for Bush to have said, BEFORE 9/11, that he did not believe in nation building, and to now be going down that road. As Bush stated in his convention address, he is “nation building” in Iraq in order to protect us at home. I know you think his policy is flawed, but that is beside the point right now. Having been attacked by one group without provocation, it is not a logical stretch to understand why Bush would preemptively strike against another country/power that has a clear history of terrorism and aggressive action invading their neighbors.
Bottom line, I find it both maddening and amusing. I have enough objectivity to step back and realize you do believe this. You really think Bush is lying. And I am convinced of the opposite: Bush is telling the truth, and Kerry is lying and unable to take a stand without playing to his audience.
I know you do not want another 9/11. But I am convinced that Kerry’s policies are much more likely to bring that about than what Bush is doing. I don’t want to see people die. As someone has said before, “perception is reality.” I don’t think terrorists will fear Kerry. I know they will fear Bush.
Jim in Iowa
>>>As a matter of fact, I’ll bet plenty of people drive by that plant, set in the middle of rural Iowa and, in ignorance, curse its very existence — even though it provides hundreds of high-paying manufacturing jobs at a time when manufacturing jobs in America are on the wane.
>>I’d be interested in knowing where this plant was located.
Someone may have answered this, but I didn’t see it. The plant is located in the Amana colonies here in Iowa. The description given is very accurate. It is a great tourist stop (I believe the #1 tourist stop in Iowa) with the German homes and stores right nearby.
Jim in Iowa
Jim,
The terrorists don’t fear Bush. They don’t fear anyone. One of the members of the 9/11 commission said on Hardball last night that the old ways won’t work. You used to make your enemy fear that you would kill him, so this was a deterrent. The fanatics who are plotting against us now do not fear death. Death is a reward. Heaven and virgins are waiting for them.
And Kerry is not coming out against the war, as much as some of us wish he would. He has come out against the way it was waged. He has said he wouldn’t do one thing differently, that he would do everything differently. Colin Powell just said in an interciew that, while he did not know how Kerry would implement any action, he did not doubt he would have a robust response. Or is Powell lying now? Bush may believe in all of the things you said. That does not make them right for this country.
Hulk writer takes on action figure
Peter David proposes A Democratic commercial I think the following would be an interesting script for a commerical for a Democratic activist group: 1) Footage of Candidate Bush stating that he’s against nation building. 2) Footage of dead and dying Ame…
I love to read some of the over the top fanatics that come to this site. It appears that every celeb in the world thinks they can run the country better than those that have spent their lives learning to do just that.
It’s easy to sit back and blame others but no one wants to get in there and get their hands dirty. Maybe just maybe we should sit back and stop throwing BS at people and work towards solutions. Instead of bìŧçhìņg about supposed unemployment maybe find a way to work towards a solution.
By the way I see plenty of help wanted signs up around my area. Maybe people just think they are too good for the jobs that are out there. I know I’m not too good for a job that feeds me.
I do not consider it a “flip/flop” for Bush to have said, BEFORE 9/11
Of course you don’t. That would be too easy, wouldn’t it?
But then, Bush had this plan for Iraq before 9/11, so I’d say his comments about nation building more than qualify.
As for the Amanas, I’ve been through there a few times, but never stopped.
It appears that every celeb in the world thinks they can run the country better than those that have spent their lives learning to do just that.
When they’ve mucked the job up like Bush has, then hëll yes, why not.
But if you really want to get into the “spent their lives learning”, well, you definately don’t want Bush to have the job – he only became an owner in the Texas Rangers so he could put on a good face to become governor.
By your logic, Gore should be president right now, not Bush.
Btw, just so you’re aware, Reagan was a tv and radio guy, then got into acting and movies. He’s just the sort of celeb you’re trying to bash. Good job!
Bush also promised police he would keep the ban on assault weapons. Does this qualify as a flip flop?
I’ll only vote for Bush!
I’ll only vote for kerry!
What issues? If you’ve been around long enough, maybe three elections, it should be obvious that presidential elections are not about issues! They are about selling a product to the American people. “Buy OUR GUY” both parties scream and “Danger WIll Robinson, Kerry/Bush Presidency Ahead, DANGER!” and we buy into it.
Do the American people really want an issues campaign? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ for most people!
But many have their own personal wants and anyone that can sell them on the idea that Bush/Kerry will give it to them first gets the vote.
Those more fanatically devoted to their guy then climb in and offer their crap on each candidate.
The media (where have you gone Walter Cronkite, our nations turns its lonely eyes to you!)
Fox News, CNN or BSNBC which tells us the truth?
NONE! Unless they praise your guy and condem the other!
PAD will your ad make a difference?
No! But nice try!
Karen:
“Bush also promised police he would keep the ban on assault weapons. Does this qualify as a flip flop?”
I don’t think so. Congress is the body that had to write the legislation to continue the ban. Maybe if a senator or two had bothered to pay attention or show up to sessions, they could have spearheaded a movement to extend the ban, instead of doing nothing and now wanting to make it a campaign issue.
May I present the cover to next month’s “Reason” (a libertarian political magazine):
http://www.reason.com/0410/preview-0410.shtml
Carl Henderson
(who is seriously considering a write-in vote for one of several fictional characters)
Craig wrote:
>>I do not consider it a “flip/flop”
>>for Bush to have said, BEFORE 9/11
>Of course you don’t. That would be too
>easy, wouldn’t it?
>But then, Bush had this plan for Iraq
>before 9/11, so I’d say his comments
>about nation building more than qualify.
Your first point is absurd and insulting. Take a moment, forget it is G. W. Bush, and think about the situation. It is like someone who says they oppose the death penalty, but then he or she has a child who is brutally murdered. It is very understandable that they might change their position. This is not giving Bush a pass, this is being intelectually honest enough to realize that an event without precendent in American history has happened. Bush did not change his mind to please an interest group, he changed it in response to a new threat to the nation.
If you make the assumption that Bush had planned to invade before 9/11, then obviously Bush is worse than someone who flip/flopped. But contrary to what you and others believe, there is NO evidence that Bush planned this (other than the continuing plans since the first gulf war ended). You look at what Bush did for the 8 months before 9/11, and you find NO policy moving in this direction. None.
But put that aside for the moment. Even without 9/11, there is an enourmous amount of evidence that the policies of the prior 8 years were not being effective. Talk about giving someone a pass. Whether or not invasion was the best answer, the willingness of Michael Moore and others on this site to totally ignore the evilness of Sadaam is without excuse. Argue all you want that invasion made things worse. I can understand that (though I don’t agree). But do it in the context that Bush was not just creating a war for the hëll of it. There was a real problem that was not going away.
Jim in Iowa
Jim in Iowa wrote:
>>>Someone may have answered this, but I didn’t see it. The plant is located in the Amana colonies here in Iowa. The description given is very accurate. It is a great tourist stop (I believe the #1 tourist stop in Iowa) with the German homes and stores right nearby.
The reason the description is accurate is because not only did I work at the plant nearly 18 months, I researched and wrote a story about about the water treatment plant in question, interviewing a number of key state and factory officials in the process. The advanced stainless steel filters of the treatment plant were such that they would not only exceed the existing environmental water standards for the next 20 years, they would exceed the PLANNED, more stringent standards that had not even been voted on to be adopted yet. THAT’S forward-thinking!
The moral of the story? Resist the temptation to broad brush all business as evil; rather, judge each business fairly on a case-by-case basis.
Big yawn.
“Mission Accomplished”, which, you know, was in response to the remarkable amount of time in which we won the war and did not refer to the fact we still had more work to do, has been used ad nauseum by Democrats ever since he made it.
Soldiers dying have been reported on a daily basis.
We had the bash-Bush manifesto “Fahrenheit 9/11”.
We even had the media obsession over Abu Ghraib.
And now, we have an entire network disgraced because they just couldn’t wait to run a story that made Bush look bad.
Personally, I think a response to the proposed PAD ad would be negligible. If Kerry actually had a consistent position or anything substantial to say, THAT might work. But so far he hasn’t.
Maybe he could run on all the bills he sponsored and policies he advocated strongly while in the Senate. Maybe somebody can make a fake tape of that and give it to CBS News, and they’ll run it.
Too bad you
Karen,
“Bush also promised he would keep the ban on assault weapons. This qualify as a flip flop.”
Seeing as how Congress let it lapse (I’m soooo surprised Kerry didn’t take the lead to keep it. It’s much easier just to bash Bush on the issue than doing somethng substantial, I guess), I would say no.
Actually, THIS is a flip flop:
“Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe that we are not safer with his capture, don’t have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president.”
JOHN KERRY – December 16, 2003
“I would have voted for the authority. I believe it’s the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively.”
JOHN KERRY – August 9, 2004
Iraq was “the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time.”
JOHN KERRY – September 6, 2004
Here’s another one:
“We should not send more American troops. That would be the worst thing.”
JOHN KERRY – September 4, 2003
“If it requires more troops..that’s what you have to do.”
JOHN KERRY – April 18, 2004
“I will have significant, enormous reduction in the level of troops.”
JOHN KERRY – August 1, 2004
“We’re going to get our troops home where they belong.”
JOHN KERRY – August 6, 2004
And yet another:
“We should increase funding (for the war in Iraq) by whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win.”
JOHN KERRY – August 31, 2003
“$200 billion (for Iraq) that we’re not investing in education and health care, and job creation here at home…That’s the wrong choice.”
JOHN KERRY – September 8, 2004
It is clear from these and other statements that o fundamental matters of war and peace, and on the major strategic and tactical questions that follow from them, that John Kerry will not or cannot hold to a position under pressure.