Every time I see ads for “Underworld,” I keep thinking it’s for “Birds of Prey.” Am I the only one?
PAD
75 comments on “IS IT JUST ME?”
That’s what i’ve always thought, but i also see a bit of a woolite dark commercial in it… tell me if that makes in commercial….
Ra!
Nope. That’s what I thought too.
Am I the only one not surprised by the lawsuit that White Wolfe hit the filmakers with because when I saw it I thoought: “Oh. Vampire:The Masquerade and Werewolf: the Apocalypse THE MOVIE.”?
Feh. The lawsuit is as frivilous as Gary Gygax suing Peter Jackson for making movies on Lord of the Rings.
“Eek, it’s a movie about.. vampires.. and…and.. warewolves! We make a product based on those! We have to sue!”
Whatever.
And no, I didn’t think of Birds of Prey. I think, “Holy crap, Kate Beckinsdale looks f’n HOT in that jacket!”
I thought it was Blade meets the Matrix. YAWN.
Actually, I thought Romeo and Juliet.
But I can see how the connection is made for Birds of Prey.
As for the Lawsuit, I think Penny-Arcade.com nailed it dead on a few days ago in their comic about the situation.
I immediately though of Birds of Prey, then White Wolf, then Romea & Juliet.
Oh, and I believe the lawsuit is because White Wolf published a book with the same story, not just the “vampires vs. werewolf” theme.
It’s a fairly frivolous suit, but yeah, I though the same thing when I first saw the trailer.
As for “Birds,” they could have only wished they had that budget. Sigh. I’m gonna miss Dina Meyers as Oracle – she was most excellent.
Nope you’re not the only one. The first time I saw it I thought it was Ashley Scott.
And I thought “Ðámņ, Kate Beckinsale lookin’ good!”.
Michael Norton,who also misses Dina Meyers as Oracle.
Well yeah Nancy A Collins is also suing with white wolf because she claims it’s a take off of an actual story they did, about a Romeo and Juliet affair between a vampire and a werewolf.
I’d have to actually look at the story and the movie and see how similar it is, to say whether or not the lawsuit has merit.
I’ll say this though it’s one of those ideas that isn’t particulalry hard to come up with.
I remember a Heavy metal Strip where a vampire and werewolf are married i don’t know if they are even fond of each other anymore but part of the reason they are still together is because it pìššëš øff their respective families.
but yeah I also miss Dina meyer. If they actually had a decent showrunner and better writers it could have worked.
I remember reading somewhere that the same advertising agency did the poster designs for “Birds of Prey” last year and “Underworld” this year, which is why they look so much alike.
I thought “Bad movie”, but that’s just me.
Sadly, about 40 of the 60 complaints that White Wolf has about Underworld are that the vampires and werewolves of Underworld happen to share some of the most common vampire-and-werewolf traits and mythos known to man with their White Wolf characters.
ex:
In Vampires: The Masquerade, vampires can move with incredible speed. In Underworld, vampries can move with incredible speed.
A lot of them _are_ frivolous. Some on the other hand, are not (i.e.- In the Guide to the Sabbat, vampires are organized into two groups: Old World Covens, and New World Covens. In Underworld, vampires are organized into two groups: Old World Covens, and New World Covens)
They need to list any and all similarities if they want to win the suit.
After reading the papers, I’m with White Wolf on this one.
Oh, and Kate Beckinsdale is hot in black leather.
When I first watched the trailer the first thing I thought of was Matrix, when I saw the advertiseing the first thing I thought of was Birds of Prey, when I heard about the more specifics about the Plot the first I thought of was White Wolf.
Everything I’ve seen from this Movie seems to be a rip off of something else, both visulay and story wise.
I dont see anything origional in this production, very little effort has been made to make it unique. I will not be going to see it.
I remember a Heavy metal Strip where a vampire and werewolf are married i don’t know if they are even fond of each other anymore but part of the reason they are still together is because it pìššëš øff their respective families.
And going back even further in time, I seem to recall an EC comic that revealed that the Cryptkeeper or Vaultmaster or whoever the hëll was the host, was actually the progeny of a werewolf and a zombie.
Ironically, I didn’t think of BRIDS OF PREY but I did think of a short-lived Marvel comic called NIGHTSIDE. The comic was about an “underworld” of supernatural creatures like werewolves and vampires (among others). And, like Underworld, the main character was a hot chick in black leather (but, apparently, you can say that about 9 out of ten fanasty/sci-fi-inspired flicks these days).
I think it’s silly for any one individual or group to lay claim to a vampire vs. werewolf rivalry. I mean, for me that goes back to “Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein” when Dracula went head to head with Wolfman.
Ain’t nothin’ new under the sun…or the ground. Personally, I was planning to see “Underworld.” I wasn’t claiming it was ripping off “Birds of Prey” so much as I was just doing double takes and wondering if I was the only one doing so.
PAD
Story-wise I think underworld will remind us more about monster flick, mixed with Whedon world mixed with Shakespeare in an interesting action movie.
But that poster with that very hot Kate Beckinsale does remind us a bit of the old BoP promo poster with Ashley Scott as Huntress.
Johny
Actually, while the shots of Beckinsdale reminded me of BoP’s “Huntress,” the whole feel of it made me think of “Highlander.” Ah, what could have been…
Actually, I think I hope the FX in this movie are going to be good and not look “cheesy” for my $10. Birds of prey was OK but you really can’t have a show based in Gotham City and not have Batman show up. I mean really Alfred Pennyworth is a recurring character but no Batman. No wonder the show got canceled.
Mark my words if Smallville doesnt put Clark in the Superman costume by the end of this season it will be canceled as well.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Then there was the british film called “The Monster Club” which was all about the cross breeding of Monsters and was out before White Wolf existed. This is an argument about archtypes and creatures that have gone “boo” since the time of Oook the Caveman as someone personal property doesn’t wash for me.
Kath
Nope! Same here.
Feh. The lawsuit is as frivilous as Gary Gygax suing Peter Jackson for making movies on Lord of the Rings.
Actually, Tolkien’s estate would probably have a better case against Gygax over the original version of D&D.
I thought “Romeo and Juliet” myself, BOP never occured to me (though I guess there’s a similarity in posters) and White Wolf didn’t occur to me until later. I’ve read the lawsuit, and most of it looks like baloney. There are a few points that look a little too close however. Guess we’ll find out on Friday.
BOP never crossed my mind. World of Darkness did. But I’m pretty sure I’m the only person here who keeps thinking “NightLife” when I see the commercials. Heck, I’m probably the only person here who ever played NightLife…
PAD’s not referring to Birds Of Prey – the comic book or the show – he’s referring to the fact that the ad for Underworld is exactly the same as the ad for the Birds Of Prey show. It’s got nothing to do with the storylines of either.
Personally, regarding the story of Underworld I’m put in mind of a recent 2000AD comic strip, from a few years back, called “A Love Like Blood”. Written by John Smith with artwork by Frazer Irving, the storyline was Romeo & Juliet, played out with the primary families being Vampires & Werewolves. Uncannily similar.
Great link, Pete. Thanks.
I thought Matrix actually (mostly because the second one hinted at the origins of vampires and werewolves). Now that I look again, BoP makes sense.
I thought it was a White Wolf adaptation when I first saw it, too. I think my exact reaction was, “Is this a feature follow-up to Kindred: The Embraced?”
Then I started hearing some of the specific story details on radio spots, and became convinced it was a White Wolf adaptation.
Then I heard some of the more specific terms which were reminiscent of, but not identical to, White Wolf’s terms, and was a bit perplexed.
Now, I hear White Wolf is suing and – again, based on the details I’ve heard straight from the spots designed to get my into the theatre – I can certainly see why. At the very least, the film’s ad campaign appears to be capitalizing on White Wolf’s systems & continuity.
There’s a definitely similarity to the two promotional posters.
As for the whole “is it a rip-off of White Wolf” debate: Even I thought the movie was based on this premise, and I know dámņ little about White Wolf!
No, that was my first reaction to.
I wonder if it’s any good that movie…
No, that was my first reaction to.
I wonder if it’s any good that movie…
Hmm, perhaps Shakespeare’s ghost should sue both Nancy A. Collins and the filmmakers.
Hmm, perhaps Shakespeare’s ghost should sue both Nancy A. Collins and the filmmakers.
Wouldn’t work, his copyright would have run out a long time ago. 😉
Maybe the descendants of the ancient Romans should sue over the use of the word “Underworld” 🙂
If you look at just about anything, you can find something similar that happened before. Just because this movie has vampires and werewolves doesn’t mean White Wolf can automatically sue. (Or that they *should* sue — they can always try.)
And Kate Beckinsale in leather — WOW!
PAD’s not referring to Birds Of Prey – the comic book or the show – he’s referring to the fact that the ad for Underworld is exactly the same as the ad for the Birds Of Prey show. It’s got nothing to do with the storylines of either.
Yes, that’s exactly right. And now that Pete was kind enough to put them up side by side, it’s nice to know I wasn’t imagining it.
Looking at them both, I think the “Underworld” has the edge. The contrast against the full moon is nice, plus she’s posed better, like, “Come and get it, punk.” Huntress looks like she’s staring down at her boot going, “Aw, man, did I step in pidgeon crap AGAIN?”
PAD
I’ve see promos for underworld and i didn’t think of birds of prey. I will now think of birds of prey when i see promos for underworld. Thanks for that.
On a kind of related note. Has any seen the promo’s for the the New Tarzan show on the Wb? It looks they are trying to make Tarzan into batman kind of the savage hunter. He goes after bad guys in New York city and some people don’t think he exsists. I think it looks stupid to me.
Gee, I saw the ads and immediately thought it was for a new Crow movie…… *chuckle*
—KRAD
The real issue isn’t whether “Underworld” is similar to the World of Darkness (that’s pretty obvious) but whether they’re similar enough to constitute a violation of White Wolf’s copyrights and trademarks. (I won’t comment on the similarity to the short story, since I haven’t seen the movie yet and it’s been ages since I read the short story, although a lot of the points White Wolf raised sound like the sort of thing that comes logically from the premise.)
I think that making that case isn’t going to be easy (with the possible exception of a couple of specific terms–the aforementioned Covens and “Abomination”–“Bloodlines” is on the generic side) because so much of the Vampire setting is either from folklore or from novels and movies. Mark Rein-Hagen, creator of Vampire, coined the phrase “Creativity is hiding your sources,” and it’s pretty apt. (Vampire’s system of generations and diablerie is lifted wholesale from Rice’s The Queen of the Ðámņëd, for example.) The bulk of the points of similarity they raise aren’t at all original to the WoD (“Werewolves are hurt by silver”), logical extensions of the concept, or ideas that are too generic to be trademarkable. (Just because the WoD has North African vampires doesn’t mean that no one else can ever have North African vampires…)
It’s also worth noting that White Wolf seems to be suing over this rather than other movies (they certainly might have had a case against “Blade”) because there’s a computer game based on Underworld coming out, and WW is releasing a game based on Vampire. (Which is not an unreasonable reason to sue, but I think they’re being disengenuous by not mentioning that in their press release–just as they’re mentioning the “60 points of similarity” without further detail, to make them sound more specific than they are in many cases.)
On the other hand, I’m not a copyright lawyer and I haven’t seen the movie, so I don’t say that they don’t have a case. I just wonder what would have happened if White Wolf had been sued by Anne Rice when Vampire came out–or Nancy Collins, whose Sonja Blue novels predate the WoD by a few years and were similar enough to be integrated into the WoD mythology…
I thought of A Love Like Blood as well, only in that wonderful little series, the vampire was a guy and the werewolf was a girl.
I had a good giggle over those lawsuit similarities. My favorite notes that in both properties, the werewolves fight with teeth and claws.
See, if only the Underworld producers had the werewolves fighting with lawn mowers and energy shields, White Wolf wouldn’t have a case…
Re:Underworld & BoP, here are the posters side-by-side:
Compare them for yourself; they sure look similar to me. (Not suably similar, but they are similar imagery)
I also tend to view this as a Matrix meets Blade/Crow.
Indeed, when the commercial first started, I thought it was the first tv spot for the final Matrix movie.
White Wolf is suing? *sigh* Silly them.
If anything, this movie will generate more interest in their games perhaps.
because there’s a computer game based on Underworld coming out, and WW is releasing a game based on Vampire.
Point of clarification:
Unless there’s another one on the horizon, Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption is a PC adaptation of the White Wolf game released in 2000. I believe there’s also a computer and/or console game based upon one of the other WoD games, Hunter: The Reckoning.
There is a new Vampire PC game on the horizon; it’s called Vampire: The Masquerade–Bloodline and is coming out in 2004. (They mention it specifically in the complaint IIRC.)
I’m sitting in the theatre and the preview for “Underworld” comes up and I’m thinking. “Cool.. Matrix 3”. Then it runs a little and I’m thinking “Okay… Matrix ripoff”.
Of course, I still want to see it, but c’mon…
I’m actually thinking that White Wolf is doing exactly what they think corporations do in these instances. About six years ago, White Wolf released a science-fiction game called AEON, a game set around the year 2140 or so. The game revolved around groups with psionic powers (very similar to the usual White Wolf technique of breaking up character choices along tribe or clan or whatever) fighting mutants and exploring space. However, a snag hit when Viacom sued them over the use of the word ‘Aeon’. Seems that Viacom (parent company of MTV) thought the game AEON violated their trademark of the ‘Aeon Flux’ cartoon.
White Wolf of course folded in the face of a lawsuit from a company as big as Viacom. But it seems quite likely to me that the previous lawsuit is floating in White Wolf’s mind right now.
Actually, Nytwyng, there is a new Vampire game coming, a sequel to the game you’re talking about, one made with the Half-Life engine.
Activision is the first such publisher to jump out and proclaim that it has in its umbrella at least one game being developed off of the fabled technology. That game, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines is a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption, and should be available sometime in 2004. Since Nihilistic is busy toiling away on StarCraft: Ghost for a multiple console release this fall, the development duties for this Vampire title have fallen to Troika, a company founded by some of the original creators of Fallout.
So that indeed may have influenced White Wolf in the timing of this lawsuit, although I still wonder if the Viacom fracas had anything to do with it.
Thanks, Doug & Ezrael.
With a new game in the offing, I might have to finally get around to installing and playing Redemption. I’d been looking at buying it for a couple of years, and found a used copy at a game store a few months ago for about 5 bucks. But, since the beginning of July, my computer gaming has been pretty much centered on Star Wars Galaxies.
🙂
This week’s TV Guide actually shows both posters/pictures on page 23. And, for the record, both ladies look good, the leather’s just a bonus…
• 
That’s what i’ve always thought, but i also see a bit of a woolite dark commercial in it… tell me if that makes in commercial….
Ra!
Nope. That’s what I thought too.
Am I the only one not surprised by the lawsuit that White Wolfe hit the filmakers with because when I saw it I thoought: “Oh. Vampire:The Masquerade and Werewolf: the Apocalypse THE MOVIE.”?
Feh. The lawsuit is as frivilous as Gary Gygax suing Peter Jackson for making movies on Lord of the Rings.
“Eek, it’s a movie about.. vampires.. and…and.. warewolves! We make a product based on those! We have to sue!”
Whatever.
And no, I didn’t think of Birds of Prey. I think, “Holy crap, Kate Beckinsdale looks f’n HOT in that jacket!”
I thought it was Blade meets the Matrix. YAWN.
Actually, I thought Romeo and Juliet.
But I can see how the connection is made for Birds of Prey.
As for the Lawsuit, I think Penny-Arcade.com nailed it dead on a few days ago in their comic about the situation.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-09-08&res=l
I immediately though of Birds of Prey, then White Wolf, then Romea & Juliet.
Oh, and I believe the lawsuit is because White Wolf published a book with the same story, not just the “vampires vs. werewolf” theme.
It’s a fairly frivolous suit, but yeah, I though the same thing when I first saw the trailer.
As for “Birds,” they could have only wished they had that budget. Sigh. I’m gonna miss Dina Meyers as Oracle – she was most excellent.
Nope you’re not the only one. The first time I saw it I thought it was Ashley Scott.
And I thought “Ðámņ, Kate Beckinsale lookin’ good!”.
Michael Norton,who also misses Dina Meyers as Oracle.
Well yeah Nancy A Collins is also suing with white wolf because she claims it’s a take off of an actual story they did, about a Romeo and Juliet affair between a vampire and a werewolf.
I’d have to actually look at the story and the movie and see how similar it is, to say whether or not the lawsuit has merit.
I’ll say this though it’s one of those ideas that isn’t particulalry hard to come up with.
I remember a Heavy metal Strip where a vampire and werewolf are married i don’t know if they are even fond of each other anymore but part of the reason they are still together is because it pìššëš øff their respective families.
but yeah I also miss Dina meyer. If they actually had a decent showrunner and better writers it could have worked.
I remember reading somewhere that the same advertising agency did the poster designs for “Birds of Prey” last year and “Underworld” this year, which is why they look so much alike.
I thought “Bad movie”, but that’s just me.
Sadly, about 40 of the 60 complaints that White Wolf has about Underworld are that the vampires and werewolves of Underworld happen to share some of the most common vampire-and-werewolf traits and mythos known to man with their White Wolf characters.
ex:
In Vampires: The Masquerade, vampires can move with incredible speed. In Underworld, vampries can move with incredible speed.
and so on.
Check out the complaints yourself if you want:
http://homepages.cquest.utoronto.ca/~cks/whitewolf.complaint.pdf
A lot of them _are_ frivolous. Some on the other hand, are not (i.e.- In the Guide to the Sabbat, vampires are organized into two groups: Old World Covens, and New World Covens. In Underworld, vampires are organized into two groups: Old World Covens, and New World Covens)
They need to list any and all similarities if they want to win the suit.
After reading the papers, I’m with White Wolf on this one.
Oh, and Kate Beckinsdale is hot in black leather.
When I first watched the trailer the first thing I thought of was Matrix, when I saw the advertiseing the first thing I thought of was Birds of Prey, when I heard about the more specifics about the Plot the first I thought of was White Wolf.
Everything I’ve seen from this Movie seems to be a rip off of something else, both visulay and story wise.
I dont see anything origional in this production, very little effort has been made to make it unique. I will not be going to see it.
I remember a Heavy metal Strip where a vampire and werewolf are married i don’t know if they are even fond of each other anymore but part of the reason they are still together is because it pìššëš øff their respective families.
And going back even further in time, I seem to recall an EC comic that revealed that the Cryptkeeper or Vaultmaster or whoever the hëll was the host, was actually the progeny of a werewolf and a zombie.
Ironically, I didn’t think of BRIDS OF PREY but I did think of a short-lived Marvel comic called NIGHTSIDE. The comic was about an “underworld” of supernatural creatures like werewolves and vampires (among others). And, like Underworld, the main character was a hot chick in black leather (but, apparently, you can say that about 9 out of ten fanasty/sci-fi-inspired flicks these days).
I think it’s silly for any one individual or group to lay claim to a vampire vs. werewolf rivalry. I mean, for me that goes back to “Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein” when Dracula went head to head with Wolfman.
Ain’t nothin’ new under the sun…or the ground. Personally, I was planning to see “Underworld.” I wasn’t claiming it was ripping off “Birds of Prey” so much as I was just doing double takes and wondering if I was the only one doing so.
PAD
Story-wise I think underworld will remind us more about monster flick, mixed with Whedon world mixed with Shakespeare in an interesting action movie.
But that poster with that very hot Kate Beckinsale does remind us a bit of the old BoP promo poster with Ashley Scott as Huntress.
Johny
Actually, while the shots of Beckinsdale reminded me of BoP’s “Huntress,” the whole feel of it made me think of “Highlander.” Ah, what could have been…
Actually, I think I hope the FX in this movie are going to be good and not look “cheesy” for my $10. Birds of prey was OK but you really can’t have a show based in Gotham City and not have Batman show up. I mean really Alfred Pennyworth is a recurring character but no Batman. No wonder the show got canceled.
Mark my words if Smallville doesnt put Clark in the Superman costume by the end of this season it will be canceled as well.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Then there was the british film called “The Monster Club” which was all about the cross breeding of Monsters and was out before White Wolf existed. This is an argument about archtypes and creatures that have gone “boo” since the time of Oook the Caveman as someone personal property doesn’t wash for me.
Kath
Nope! Same here.
Feh. The lawsuit is as frivilous as Gary Gygax suing Peter Jackson for making movies on Lord of the Rings.
Actually, Tolkien’s estate would probably have a better case against Gygax over the original version of D&D.
I thought “Romeo and Juliet” myself, BOP never occured to me (though I guess there’s a similarity in posters) and White Wolf didn’t occur to me until later. I’ve read the lawsuit, and most of it looks like baloney. There are a few points that look a little too close however. Guess we’ll find out on Friday.
BOP never crossed my mind. World of Darkness did. But I’m pretty sure I’m the only person here who keeps thinking “NightLife” when I see the commercials. Heck, I’m probably the only person here who ever played NightLife…
I’ve put a side-by-side image up at my blog, I Shoot With My Mind (http://www.further-adventures.com/shoot). Check it.
PAD’s not referring to Birds Of Prey – the comic book or the show – he’s referring to the fact that the ad for Underworld is exactly the same as the ad for the Birds Of Prey show. It’s got nothing to do with the storylines of either.
Personally, regarding the story of Underworld I’m put in mind of a recent 2000AD comic strip, from a few years back, called “A Love Like Blood”. Written by John Smith with artwork by Frazer Irving, the storyline was Romeo & Juliet, played out with the primary families being Vampires & Werewolves. Uncannily similar.
Great link, Pete. Thanks.
I thought Matrix actually (mostly because the second one hinted at the origins of vampires and werewolves). Now that I look again, BoP makes sense.
I thought it was a White Wolf adaptation when I first saw it, too. I think my exact reaction was, “Is this a feature follow-up to Kindred: The Embraced?”
Then I started hearing some of the specific story details on radio spots, and became convinced it was a White Wolf adaptation.
Then I heard some of the more specific terms which were reminiscent of, but not identical to, White Wolf’s terms, and was a bit perplexed.
Now, I hear White Wolf is suing and – again, based on the details I’ve heard straight from the spots designed to get my into the theatre – I can certainly see why. At the very least, the film’s ad campaign appears to be capitalizing on White Wolf’s systems & continuity.
No, Peter, it’s not just you. Check out the 2 websites: http://www.patfullerton.com/batman/pix/birds/birds02.jpg
http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/underworld/
There’s a definitely similarity to the two promotional posters.
As for the whole “is it a rip-off of White Wolf” debate: Even I thought the movie was based on this premise, and I know dámņ little about White Wolf!
No, that was my first reaction to.
I wonder if it’s any good that movie…
No, that was my first reaction to.
I wonder if it’s any good that movie…
Hmm, perhaps Shakespeare’s ghost should sue both Nancy A. Collins and the filmmakers.
Hmm, perhaps Shakespeare’s ghost should sue both Nancy A. Collins and the filmmakers.
Wouldn’t work, his copyright would have run out a long time ago. 😉
Maybe the descendants of the ancient Romans should sue over the use of the word “Underworld” 🙂
If you look at just about anything, you can find something similar that happened before. Just because this movie has vampires and werewolves doesn’t mean White Wolf can automatically sue. (Or that they *should* sue — they can always try.)
And Kate Beckinsale in leather — WOW!
PAD’s not referring to Birds Of Prey – the comic book or the show – he’s referring to the fact that the ad for Underworld is exactly the same as the ad for the Birds Of Prey show. It’s got nothing to do with the storylines of either.
Yes, that’s exactly right. And now that Pete was kind enough to put them up side by side, it’s nice to know I wasn’t imagining it.
Looking at them both, I think the “Underworld” has the edge. The contrast against the full moon is nice, plus she’s posed better, like, “Come and get it, punk.” Huntress looks like she’s staring down at her boot going, “Aw, man, did I step in pidgeon crap AGAIN?”
PAD
I’ve see promos for underworld and i didn’t think of birds of prey. I will now think of birds of prey when i see promos for underworld. Thanks for that.
On a kind of related note. Has any seen the promo’s for the the New Tarzan show on the Wb? It looks they are trying to make Tarzan into batman kind of the savage hunter. He goes after bad guys in New York city and some people don’t think he exsists. I think it looks stupid to me.
Gee, I saw the ads and immediately thought it was for a new Crow movie…… *chuckle*
—KRAD
The real issue isn’t whether “Underworld” is similar to the World of Darkness (that’s pretty obvious) but whether they’re similar enough to constitute a violation of White Wolf’s copyrights and trademarks. (I won’t comment on the similarity to the short story, since I haven’t seen the movie yet and it’s been ages since I read the short story, although a lot of the points White Wolf raised sound like the sort of thing that comes logically from the premise.)
I think that making that case isn’t going to be easy (with the possible exception of a couple of specific terms–the aforementioned Covens and “Abomination”–“Bloodlines” is on the generic side) because so much of the Vampire setting is either from folklore or from novels and movies. Mark Rein-Hagen, creator of Vampire, coined the phrase “Creativity is hiding your sources,” and it’s pretty apt. (Vampire’s system of generations and diablerie is lifted wholesale from Rice’s The Queen of the Ðámņëd, for example.) The bulk of the points of similarity they raise aren’t at all original to the WoD (“Werewolves are hurt by silver”), logical extensions of the concept, or ideas that are too generic to be trademarkable. (Just because the WoD has North African vampires doesn’t mean that no one else can ever have North African vampires…)
It’s also worth noting that White Wolf seems to be suing over this rather than other movies (they certainly might have had a case against “Blade”) because there’s a computer game based on Underworld coming out, and WW is releasing a game based on Vampire. (Which is not an unreasonable reason to sue, but I think they’re being disengenuous by not mentioning that in their press release–just as they’re mentioning the “60 points of similarity” without further detail, to make them sound more specific than they are in many cases.)
On the other hand, I’m not a copyright lawyer and I haven’t seen the movie, so I don’t say that they don’t have a case. I just wonder what would have happened if White Wolf had been sued by Anne Rice when Vampire came out–or Nancy Collins, whose Sonja Blue novels predate the WoD by a few years and were similar enough to be integrated into the WoD mythology…
I thought of A Love Like Blood as well, only in that wonderful little series, the vampire was a guy and the werewolf was a girl.
I had a good giggle over those lawsuit similarities. My favorite notes that in both properties, the werewolves fight with teeth and claws.
See, if only the Underworld producers had the werewolves fighting with lawn mowers and energy shields, White Wolf wouldn’t have a case…
Re:Underworld & BoP, here are the posters side-by-side:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/copperpoint/325612.html
Compare them for yourself; they sure look similar to me. (Not suably similar, but they are similar imagery)
I also tend to view this as a Matrix meets Blade/Crow.
Indeed, when the commercial first started, I thought it was the first tv spot for the final Matrix movie.
White Wolf is suing? *sigh* Silly them.
If anything, this movie will generate more interest in their games perhaps.
because there’s a computer game based on Underworld coming out, and WW is releasing a game based on Vampire.
Point of clarification:
Unless there’s another one on the horizon, Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption is a PC adaptation of the White Wolf game released in 2000. I believe there’s also a computer and/or console game based upon one of the other WoD games, Hunter: The Reckoning.
There is a new Vampire PC game on the horizon; it’s called Vampire: The Masquerade–Bloodline and is coming out in 2004. (They mention it specifically in the complaint IIRC.)
I’m sitting in the theatre and the preview for “Underworld” comes up and I’m thinking. “Cool.. Matrix 3”. Then it runs a little and I’m thinking “Okay… Matrix ripoff”.
Of course, I still want to see it, but c’mon…
I’m actually thinking that White Wolf is doing exactly what they think corporations do in these instances. About six years ago, White Wolf released a science-fiction game called AEON, a game set around the year 2140 or so. The game revolved around groups with psionic powers (very similar to the usual White Wolf technique of breaking up character choices along tribe or clan or whatever) fighting mutants and exploring space. However, a snag hit when Viacom sued them over the use of the word ‘Aeon’. Seems that Viacom (parent company of MTV) thought the game AEON violated their trademark of the ‘Aeon Flux’ cartoon.
White Wolf of course folded in the face of a lawsuit from a company as big as Viacom. But it seems quite likely to me that the previous lawsuit is floating in White Wolf’s mind right now.
Actually, Nytwyng, there is a new Vampire game coming, a sequel to the game you’re talking about, one made with the Half-Life engine.
Activision is the first such publisher to jump out and proclaim that it has in its umbrella at least one game being developed off of the fabled technology. That game, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines is a sequel to Vampire: The Masquerade – Redemption, and should be available sometime in 2004. Since Nihilistic is busy toiling away on StarCraft: Ghost for a multiple console release this fall, the development duties for this Vampire title have fallen to Troika, a company founded by some of the original creators of Fallout.
So that indeed may have influenced White Wolf in the timing of this lawsuit, although I still wonder if the Viacom fracas had anything to do with it.
Thanks, Doug & Ezrael.
With a new game in the offing, I might have to finally get around to installing and playing Redemption. I’d been looking at buying it for a couple of years, and found a used copy at a game store a few months ago for about 5 bucks. But, since the beginning of July, my computer gaming has been pretty much centered on Star Wars Galaxies.
🙂
This week’s TV Guide actually shows both posters/pictures on page 23. And, for the record, both ladies look good, the leather’s just a bonus…