If you’re interested in seeing some of the single most condescending coverage of the Hugos in…well, ever, I guess…check this out.
PAD
If you’re interested in seeing some of the single most condescending coverage of the Hugos in…well, ever, I guess…check this out.
PAD
• 
I guess being Canadian I’ve learned not to expect much of the Post, a newspaper that advertises itself by having rich white people ramble about being Canadian and how gosh darn proud they are. And how rich.
I’ll try and believe that the writer isn’t normally that bad, but that the pregnancy hormones did unusual things to her mind. Yeah.
It’s a shallow world out there folks. I just learned recently that the TV series Sex And The City wasn’t actually intended as a thinly-veiled satire of extremely shallow and intellectually bankrupt people. Maybe whatsherface would like to guest star, ‘eh?
I know what I’m about to say isn’t going to be very popular, but that is precisely the reaction I have had at the conventions I have attended.
SF and fantasy fans are by far the most insular, self-gratifying group of people I have ever encountered — even moreso than Renaissance Festival afficianados.
I don’t get the whole “I’m a geek” thing anyway. Why in the world would you want to embrace and magnify the very behavior that sets you apart — only to complain that no one understands you?
I remember one particular convention when a guy was walking around talking like Doctor Who. Every time I saw him, he was trying to negotiate every conversation with Who-speak. If you didn’t know what he was talking about (and most people didn’t) he’d put on a superior air and gloat.
I don’t get it. What exactly was accomplished here? This person aliented just about everyone.
I love SF, fantasy and comics, but sometimes it’s difficult being around the more fanatical fans.
I remember getting advanced tickets to see Star Trek IV from a friend of mine that knew I was fan of the show (I watched it). We had to get there about an hour early and were surrounded by the hardcore fanbase upon entering the lobby. Boy, did they weird me and my wife out just a bit! I enjoy the humorous mocking of ANY fannish culture that inadvertantly alienates (no pun intended) those not equal to their enthusiasm. Having said that; this article served absolutely no purpose whatsover, other than to play a childish game of “tease-the-geek”.
Coverage of the awards (a very prestigious event) with a bit of humor involved in the author’s ignorance of SF fandom would have been fine by me. The piece we got was simply the author telling us how superior she felt to those attending the convention and the Hugos ceremony. This was journalism that didn’t even rise to the level of a high school newspaper; they would’ve at least stayed for the awards and reported the winners.
Well, I can certainly empathise with a general reaction that, as I grow older, some of the extremes of fandom are a bit too extreme for me. I don’t enjoy conventions like I did when I was 19 – as my social skills have matured considerably, it’s more obvious and frustrating dealing with those who haven’t.
On the other hand, I _totally_ understand the point of “geek pride”. Most of us have interests that, if we share our enthusiam for them with the general public, can lead to ostracism and ridicule from the general public. Conventions are an oasis where we can sit around, talk with a stranger about which comic book writers we enjoy, what episodes of Buffy were the best in Season 3, whether OS X is cool or crippled Unix – all the stuff that’s socially dangerous to really show passion for in the outside world. And despite a subset of fandom that doesn’t understand proper bathing, or doesn’t understand polite social interactions, it still can be very rewarding, particularly when running into old friends you see once a year at best.
And, apart from the good and bad about fandom, I actually read the article in question. It’s not like the author made an attempt to actually report on anything except to say that Spider Robinson looks like Tom Green (he doesn’t.) It was one hand held over the nose whining about these people that she had the indignity of encountering. It was her telling us that these geeks were – not even strange – worthless creatures that are so out of touch with reality, and we should be grateful for it, lest we normal folk should encounter them. I’m sorry that she encountered some rude folk – indeed, I’ve found people working security at cons can indeed be horrible, particularly if they’re volunteers – but there’s no attempt to get beyond a surface revulsion.
In fact, that’s exactly _why_ some people like going to conventions. To get away from people like that. I’m sure I’d be just as uncomfortable around her circle of friends – but at least I have the decency to not condemn them for not sharing my outlook on life.
Just to alter the focus a bit but I have a question.
I’m not a hardcore literary/sci-fi/fantasy type but somebody please explain:
I thought the Hugo’s were a big deal. At least, were a fairly prestigous award.
As I said, I’m not into the scene but simply via my comic/star trek casual fandom, I have heard of Hugos.
So why would they send a writer to cover them if she had a clear and open hostility to anybody not in her snooty clique?
And, more importantly, why would the Hugo people, if it is indeed an important award, allow their award ceremnony to turn into a laughingstock freak-fest? I mean, when LOTR wins the Oscar this year, I doubt you’ll see a crowd of robed hobbits in the audience. So why does this award ceremony allow such behavior?
Best–Chris
I do believe the Hugos are indeed a prestigous award. I’ve always heard about how great it is to recieve one.
I don’t understand sending a reporter there just so she can tear down people who are trying to have a good time. Maybe she would feel the same if someone attended a wine tasting and did the same?
As for rude fans, I’ve been to one truly “SCI-FI” convention(as opposed to the countless comic conventions) and in fact more than just a sci-fi convention it was specifically a StarTrek convention. And you know what? Not one person was rude, or snobby. They all were nice and cordial.Even the Klingon who slapped me on the back buddy-like and told me I was a good guy in Klingonese. Of course, since I’m considerably shorter, the amount of spittle that rained on me was a bit icky.
So I have no idea what this so-called reporter was talking about.
I want to add I have friends like her though, who won’t hesitate to take a moment and ridicule someone for dressing up for a con or reading comics.
Michael Norton
So, let me get this straight. The woman is assigned to cover the Hugos. She goes, but has to sneak into the ceremony, then doesn’t stay for the whole presentation, then writes an article in which she not only doesn’t even mention any of the awards which were given, but does insult the entire attendance of the Worldcon. And her editor 1. Let her keep her job, and 2. Printed the article anyway? How many of us could say that we would get the same treatment if we did the opposite job from what we were assigned by our bosses? Nice work if you can get it. Canadian journalism: the new job of choice for the non-conformist.
I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, but it reminds me of my group’s first convention in Ottawa [MAPLECON I in ’78] where one of our club members was a part-time journalist with one of the two local newspapers. Of course he volunteered to come and cover the event. So what did his editor do? Choose the guy who WANTED to be here, knew his way around, had an in with the organizers? Of course not. He was turned down in favour of some clown who didn’t have a clue and misquoted people dismally.
Note to newspaper editors: going out of your way to pìšš øff people who do a lot of reading is not generally considered a good idea if you’re in the publishing business.
Did anyone consider that the journalist was maybe, just maybe, being sarcastic? I don’t read the Post. It does have a reputation of being a muckraker, regardless of what Dave Sim says.
And we SF/Comix geeks are very insular, to the point of embarassment, similar to my ex-wife believing I’m interested in the insurance industry and insisting on telling me about it.
You have to realize that this is Rebecca Eckler. Pregnancy really has nothing to do with her being this shallow. She’s like that most of the time.
Eckler’s column’s normally consist of life in the big city (Toronto), sneaking into shows, bizarre social trends with the rich and shallow and interviewing the occasional celebrity.
The thing is, she’s not a bad writer when she sets her mind to it. But the Post encourages this of their columnists. To be very talky, rambly and personable. And sometimes it works. Christie Blatchford, who just left the Post for the Globe and Mail, is one of the country’s best columnists (IMHO). She could get away with it. Eckler, who I’m sure is a fairly nice person in real life (she actually did a column a couple of weeks ago about how strange it is being recognized all the time, just because her picture is in the paper that was oddly touching and funny), just look unbelievably shallow. Which is fine if she were spoofing herself. But she’s not.
I recall reading a copy of the Post last year where she hired a personal financial consultant and was horrified, horrified, to realize that her slary as a columnist wouldn’t allow her to keep her $300 a week personal trainer, dining out 6 days a week, dry cleaning for nearly all her clothes and her staggering shoe habit.
Ignore it. It was a shallow, cheapshot piece of writing. For comparison, the Globe and Mail did a nice article Neil Gaiman, although they did get a couple of facts wrong.
Cheers…
_craig
Okay, so shoot me; I thought it was amusing.
Haven’t you ever felt that way when you attended something you weren’t a part of?
The only reason I go to a con is to people watch (same reason I go to a sports game). Really weird people (a relative term) are fun to watch.
And on the plus side (or is it a negative side?) that’s the first article about the Hugo’s I’ve read all the way through.
I love SF, fantasy and comics, but sometimes it’s difficult being around the more fanatical fans.
Yes, it is. And it is also difficult being around the more fanatical fans at, say, a baseball game. The fans who come painted with the team’s colors on their face, who perpetually have a beer in their hand, who cheer every strike call and boo every call that goes against the team. Who scream and shout and boo at the top of their lungs and get into loud arguments over arcane statistics because, dammit, *that’s* what a fan is *supposed* to be.
And this type of person represents a fairly small percentage of the typical attendee of a baseball game.
Likewise, the extreme goes-in-costume drives-you-nuts SF fan is a fairly small percentage of the typical SF con.
But much news coverage would have you believe differently. TV oftentimes, as their cameras focus exclusively on the handful of people at a Trek conventio dressed in Vulcan garb. And now this column, as the columnist goes in pre-determined to encounter a gathering of pathetic geeks and touts her infinite superiority to an assemblage of people, any random sampling of which probably have an IQ twenty to thirty points above hers.
The most telling
COMMENT: 75% of them wear glasses. You know why we wear glasses, lady? BECAUSE WE READ BOOKS.
PAD
Wow. All I could think of while I was reading this article was “What a bìŧçh!” She states, early in the article, that she wasn’t at all happy about having to cover the convention on a Saturday during her long weekend. It was nice to see that she was going into it with an open mind. The only way that I can think of that she kept her job after turning in an article like that is because this is what the editor wanted. It’s sad really.
I didn’t find the article that condescending. I think Eckler was simply responding to what she saw, and how she was treated.
Chris: So why would they send a writer to cover them if she had a clear and open hostility to anybody not in her snooty clique?
Michael Norton: I don’t understand sending a reporter there just so she can tear down people who are trying to have a good time.
Luigi Novi: I didn’t get any of this from reading the article. As I read it, she was simply sent to cover the event, and reported what she experienced. She experienced rudeness, immaturity, and the self-important behavior of some people with a certain esoteric hobby. Some of what she describes sounds like stuff I’ve encountered a bit of that myself, both on the Net and at some of the comic book conventions I’ve been to. I recall how at the one Star Trek convention at the Meadowlands Convention Center in Secaucus, NJ I went to because it was down the block from the theater I worked at, I sat down to hear people like Brent Spiner, Marina Sirtis and Andrew Robinson relate their anecdotes and answer questions, and had the misfortune of sitting near someone whose last bathing must have been during the Nixon administration. I remember attending a convention panel with Chris Claremont and Rob Liefeld around the time of the launch of X-Force and the new Claremont/Jim Lee X-Men, and the person next to me laughed out loud (and I emphasize “loud”) when one of the panelists made a casual remark that was only modestly funny. I remember someone coming out of Star Trek Generations when I was behind the concession stand and arguing with me that no, Kirk wasn’t dead, because he was still inside the Nexus and could come out of there, blah, blah blah. And I’m sure many here have seen the Trek Nazis on the web who react to anyone who doesn’t love every single episode or movie with the worst vitriol.
Azlynn: I’ll try and believe that the writer isn’t normally that bad, but that the pregnancy hormones did unusual things to her mind. Yeah.
Luigi Novi: I’ll assume you were joking, but I would imagine that things like that may be one reason why people like Eckert respond the way they do when they see the stuff they do at conventions.
Mike Sawin: I don’t get the whole “I’m a geek” thing anyway. Why in the world would you want to embrace and magnify the very behavior that sets you apart — only to complain that no one understands you?
Luigi Novi: Self-deprecation is a time-honored genre of humor. I myself admit to being a geek. I can name just about any episode of Trek with only a threadbare description, I’m probably pretty good at trivia, I read comics, etc. I simply don’t limit my life to those things, so there’s no reason for me to be ashamed of being a geek. I read lots of other things like science, pseudoscience, history, current events, criminology, etc. I can hold a conversation with people who don’t share my interests without condescending to them, and I try to learn from them and their interests that I don’t share.
I don’t think this article is a big deal. Let it go. Move on.
I will say to Ms. Eckler only that yes, if you fell asleep five minutes into Fellowship of the Ring, there is something wrong with you.
It may not be a lack of taste, although that seems to be her implication, but simply that you would spend money to see a film when you’re obviously already tired.
It’s no less insulting than Kevin Smith’s recent Tonight Show “coverage” of the San Diego ComicCon. He interviewed a few… more colorful attendees and made a few pëņìš jokes. Oddly enough, he looked down the pants of a big inflatable Hulk and made a lame joke about why he is angry all the time.
Ahh, what a sad story. The part about her breeding, that is. Hopefully her child will rebel in the usual fashion by becoming her opposite; educated and intelligent.
dAN
Explain this to me: why is it okay for lit fans to speak with great contempt about media fans, and media fans can dis gamers up one end and down the other, and gamers can exude disdain over comic book fans all day…
…but when someone on the outside does the exact same thing to fandom in general–most times using the very same terms as the above categories use–fans react with shock, horror and fury?
To say nothing of surprise…
JSM
** Explain this to me: why is it okay for lit fans to speak with great contempt about media fans, and media fans can dis gamers up one end and down the other, and gamers can exude disdain over comic book fans all day…
…but when someone on the outside does the exact same thing to fandom in general–most times using the very same terms as the above categories use–fans react with shock, horror and fury?
To say nothing of surprise… **
Because they are outside of the tribe! You know, the “my family fights all the time, but if someone messes with one of us, we all turn against them” thing.
One of us. One of us.
Well, I do agree with her on one point. I like going because usually I am the best dressed person there. Heck, I even look better than 99% of the people at the con in Tulsa. It’s a huge ego boost.
Most of em I can deal with (especially the one this year in the Alicia Silverstone Batgirl costume)
(and hey, I met wil wheaton. Nice guy.)
but there are a few…. well, they sent me running screaming into beyond.
This chick just doesn’t seem to get it. Fans are just that… fans… which is short for fanatical. And fanatics don’t think straight a lot of the time.
eh, I could go on. and I should, but I need to work.
Travis
I was at the Hugo award ceremony this year for the first time in a long time. If Ninny the columnist thought she was the best dressed person there, then she obviously should make her own appointment with the laser eye surgeon. John Hertz (who wore the beanie on stage) came in full formal dress before removing his gloves to don the beanie at the presenter’s request. (It turned out he was about to get the Big Heart award and didn’t know it.)
I was in a tuxedo too, since I was there on the small chance that my friend, Steven Silver, would win the Best Fan Writer award and that I would have to accept it for him.
And there were plenty of other well-dressed fans there, as well.
So she’s wrong on the facts of her article and can be safely disregarded as the fool that she is.
Explain this to me: why is it okay for lit fans to speak with great contempt about media fans, and media fans can dis gamers up one end and down the other, and gamers can exude disdain over comic book fans all day…
I can’t speak for others, but personally I don’t think it’s okay.
At last year’s Shore Leave, many Trek fans had a knee-jerk hostile reaction to the flood of Buffy fans who showed up because James Marsters was the GOH. It didn’t matter that the Slayerettes were for the most part well-dressed, well-behaved, and attentive to all the programming. Their mere presence was enough to annoy people.
Didn’t bother me none. My attitude was, Fans is fans. Interestingly, this year, a number of Buffy fans returned despite the lack of any Buffy-related guests. Why? They’d become interested in other aspects of fandom.
I despise the attitude that’s averse to new blood or different interests.
PAD
Lots of interesting thoughts here.
1) I skipped reading the article. The National Post is just not worth my time.
2) Journalists of all stripes are guilty of going into stories with pre-concieved notions that they will not change. I’ve seen it too often in my own job in museum public relations. If people perceive us as being stodgy, or insensitive, or what have you, that comes with them, no matter what is true. Objective journalism is rare, and moreso when the topic is the least bit esoteric.
3) Most cons I’ve been to have a minimum of people in “silly costumes,” and many of those costumes show a good deal of imagination. It’s true that a lot of fen have no clue about how to dress neatly, but neither do most college students.
4) I wear glasses because I have bad eyesight, and not because I read a lot (though I do). I think this true of all nearsighted people with glasses. I guess that in this writer’s world, though, people wear contact lenses and hide their tragic flaw. Personally, I still find a woman who wears glasses instead of contact lenses a bit more interesting at first sight, as it says she’s not vain. Fen are many things. Vain is not one of them.
5) About the Hugos, while I wouldn’t mind winning one, and hope to vote on them next year, I think that they are not the ultimate prize. A very small number of people maybe 3,000 votes at most – choose the winners. OK, the Oscars are probably selected the same way, but this is the only prestigious prize I know of that if chosen by a small number of fans and not pros. My guess is that the Nebula and the World Fantasy Award are given a slightly higher regard. Then again, I’ve never asked any winner or nominee about it. All I know is that Neil Gaiman seems to care a lot about this and that JK Rowling (AFAIK) has never said anything about her prizes.
One more thought:
I’m into filk. It’s why I go to cons much of the time. And I hate it when we are treated like third class citizens. At the same time, I needed to become god friends with gamers before I stopped looking at them funny.
And I have a friend who abhors the “fan vs. mundane” labeling that goes on.
We are all guilty of labeling. It takes a good deal of introspection to see it for what it is.
Now if you want to see something really scary (I know, I know, I should be working) go to a collectibles convention. Sometimes they have guests show up. Sometimes they don’t.
I went searching for pulps. That’s what I collected at a point in time (still have a first printing of the Tower of the Elephant. Other People have kids to crow about, I have Conan)… Ended up picking up the full Archie Goodwin/Walt Simonson Manhunter run in Detective.
I thought SciFi fans were scary. No. These people are the worst. They dressed regularly. They varied in ages. But it was like going to Wal-Mart at a 50% off everything sale. Mobbed. Mobbed. Mobbed.
I don’t like people that much to ever return (except for the videotapes of old 40s-60s television shows)…
Which goes to show you. You don’t have to dress like a Klingon to be weird.
Travis
So why would they send a writer to cover them if she had a clear and open hostility to anybody not in her snooty clique?
Because sci-fi fandom is regarded, by many, as an upopular subculture peopled by sexless maniacs. All this woman did was cater to the already cemented perception of the masses.
To publish a favorable review of the event, or at least a review that wasn’t as UNfavorable as this one, would’ve catered only to those of us who enjoy the sci-fi world (or at least, I’m guessing this is what would go on in the mind of the writer’s editor at The Post). The only reason most people outside of sci-fi fandom would even want to read an article on this subject is for some giggles.
It would be nice to see some kind of unbiased documentary or book about sci-fi fandom one of these days. Personally, I haven’t found it yet. Trekkies was the only thing I’ve seen that came close, and even that was disturbing for the exact opposite reasons this Post article was annoying. The filmmakers seemed to gloss over a lot of really, really disturbing things about some of the more extreme fans they interviewed.
Gosh, where to start? I suppose with the most obvious point: this columnist wasn’t sent to cover the Hugos; otherwise A) she wouldn’t have had to talk her way in to the ceremony, B) wouldn’t have left halfway through the awards, and C) failed to mention all but one or two winners. It seems pretty obvious that her brief was to go along to the con and write about some of the losers she runs into. And that’s just what she did. How else can you justify the fact that right from the outset, she tells her readers she didn’t even want to go?
Frankly, none of this should come as a surprise to anyone who’s ever seen a condescending news report about a sci-fi convention, or anything SF-related, like the opening of a new Star Wars movie (accompanied by the obligatory shot of fans camped outside the theater). For example, just about every TV news piece encompasses one of the following:
1. The reporter who gets made up as an alien extra, and appears in the distant background of a shot for about half a second.
2. The correspondent who shows up at a convention and shows that he is indeed one of the fans by wearing a 15-foot scarf, a classic Trek tunic or some other SF prop (some combine items from different shows, thus displaying their lack of knowledge and/or disdain for the subject matter. That same correspondent will invariably ignore the normal-looking, well spoken con-goers in favor of the largest, most socially maladroit fan they can possibly find. This person, we are then told, pretty much represents everyone at the gathering.
3. And of course, the old standard: the reporter who ‘beams into/out of the location/studio, accompanied by whatever cheesy transporter effect the newsroom engineer can put together, and an equally futuristic sound effect. In the UK, this can be replaced by the Doctor Who variant, whereby the same reporter can be seen stepping out of a hastily-constructed police box, along with the traditional TARDIS sound effect. Any of these can be mixed and matched, by the way, so Star Trek beam-out can be accompanied by TARDIS sound effect, etc.
I’m sure there are a few I’ve forgotten, but those are the ones that usually get on my nerves.
I’ve been to cons. Yes, there are people who are weird, fanatics who haven’t discovered soap yet alone that people come in too genders, but they are a small segment. Is that any different from the face painters at sporting events or people who lie awake at night wondering if J-Lo and Ben are going to “make it” as a couple?
Fanatics exist in all forms of popular entertainment. The idea that genre fans are “insular” based on what happens at cons is ridiculous. Cons are designed to bring people together of common interests and discuss them. They are by their very nature, insular events, whether it’s trekkies or dentists, anyone who is outside of that group will feel lost and excluded.
Finally, when it comes to the mainstream media, who do they send to do commentary on sports? Sports fans.
Who do they send to do movie reviews? Movie fans.
Who do they send to do commentary on political events? Political junkies.
So, why does the mainstream media, time and again, send someone to cover science fiction or comics, someone whose first sentence in the article is always, “I hate science fiction, but . . .” and who then immeidately goes to guy in the homemade Wolverine costume who hasn’t touched a woman since his mother stopped breast feeding him?
The only other instance where a group gets the same kind of treatment from the mainstream media are the gay pride rallies, where the cameras always bypass all the people in business attire and zoom right in on the cross dressers and leather fetishers.
I’m a polyfan. I’m a fan of many different things that cross many barriers. I sometimes find the level of disdain fans of one area have for fans of another amusing, sometimes I find it disheartening.
Try being a sports fan around a SF convention. You’re considered beneath their notice. How could you possibly be interested in something as mundane as baseball?
Somehow I ended up on a panel at a local SF convention and ended up getting in a rather heated argument concerning the entire rest of the panel’s use of the term “Mundane” or “Mundie” for people ‘not of fandom.’ I argued this sort of disdain just added to the insular nature of fandom. If you decide to cut the ‘normal’ people out of it, don’t be surprised when the ‘normal’ people don’t even try to understand you.
None of this is a defense to the article. She’s obviously a columnist who found something she could make fun of, and did. I tend to find Dave Barry’s humor more to my taste, but he often does the same sort of send up as this column.
D. Eric Carpenter (a gamer, White Sox fan, Packer fan, comic reader, SF reader, medieval and civil war recreationist, etc. etc.)
I fell asleep during the first paragraph and didn’t wake up until the copyright line rolled. Does that mean there’s something wrong with me?
As a Canadian. I’m constantly embarrassed by the Nation Post. But I guess it is our version of the fair and balanced Fox News.
I think its funny that people get riled up with comic or sci-fi fans like this reporter did. Has she ever been to a hockey game? Or maybe seen one on TV? People screaming and hooting and hollering with their face paint and cardboard signs and being overly obsessed with the team they love. I never understood how that’s different from a Trekkie wearing Spock ears going to a con. I guess the trekkie doesn’t drive around town honking and screaming and waving flags.
Not all journalist speak of us Sci-fi fans so harshly. I once read a msnbc article about dating today and the female writer suggested to her (female) readers that one of the best places to meet a man is at a Sci-fi convention. She described the typical fan as sweet, intelligent, and loyal. she went on to say that the sci-fi fan will likely be shy or socially awkward, but once opened up, a lot of fun …
I belive the same is true of female sci-fi fans — they are just so much rarer. AAARRRRGH!
SF fans don’t tend to be as destructive as sports fans, either–you never hear about fans tearing up their town after a really good Buffy episode, let alone Blake’s 7 hooliganism. I’m often amazed at what’s tolerated around sports because they’re socially sanctioned…
I’m sorry, I didn’t see anything condescending at all about her report. The gist of it seemed to be that fandom has a language and habits all its own, incomprehensible (on purpose) to those who aren’t in the know. If you want to talk about “condescending,” explain to me why hardcore sf “fen” refer to non-“fen” as “mundanes.”
“Not all journalist speak of us Sci-fi fans so harshly. I once read a msnbc article about dating today and the female writer suggested to her (female) readers that one of the best places to meet a man is at a Sci-fi convention.”
Joe … do you have a copy of this article, or a link to it? I would like to forward it to every female I know.
Jason
Elayne, you don’t find references to fans as “these people” (with an implication they’re not human) as condescending?
Well, I was the House Manager of this year’s Hugos. Let’s just say that the most amusing of *many* factual errors in this hachet piece is that I was the one who explained how to get out of the hall (for odd access and safety reasons, the door people entered through was *not* the one they’d be exiting from), not Spider. And Spider and I don’t look particularly similar, nor were we dressed alike.
There are some comments above that Eckler was treated rudely. Um, no. A limited amount of seating was reserved specifically for nominees and presenters, both to honor them and to allow for extra wide spacing so winners could easily get out of the middle of an aisle and up to the stage. My usher (and, btw, the ushers in that area very specifically were chosen by me both for general competence and for being elegantly dressed, so Eckler is also lying about being anywhere near the best dressed person there, much less that she encountered) did exactly the right thing is politely asking someone in that section who didn’t belong there to move.
As for the lack of humor when asked if Buffy would be there? Well, in the past we’ve had Christopher Reeve, Sean Astin and Sala Baker, the writer and director of GalaxyQuest, etc. accept Hugos. A Buffy episode was nominated. If Geller had been in the Toronto area, we might actually have gotten her. As it was, episode writer Jane Espenson accepted for Buffy (I knew in advance she was there, but the ushers didn’t). The usher did *exactly* the right thing in her quoted reply.
I’ve also gotten email from the Press Office head, who’s *very* mad as this piece, as he’d gone out of his way to arrange for passes for this clown which she never picked up, not to mention misquoting him in such a way to make him look foolish (free hint; he did not say “Oh my God” when told of her companion’s name).
Based on what Eckler claims was said to her (there are enough pure factual errors in the story that I don’t trust her quotes), she was treated very politely, much more politely than she probably deserved, again given her own quotes and apparent attitude. I’m writing a letter to her editor specifying all the factual errors, asking if this is the quality of reporter the Post wishes to be associated with.
D. Eric Carpenter,
Interesting – I had the experience as a White Sox fan attending Dragon*Con this year (my third, by the way), that there were a decent amount of sports fans there (mostly congegrated in the Hyatt bar during the day to check out the baseball and college football scores). In fact, there was a small contingent of Wisconsin Badgers fans at the big screen watching the 1st game of the season, having a high old time with some Klingons (Klingons in character watching football is a wonderful time, by the way).
Good to see a fellow Sox fan here (and remember, folks, Sox refers to White Sox – not the later guys in Boston).
Well for all of those who were offended by the article, instead of complaining about it here, email her. Here’s her email address, which I got off the article in question: reckler@nationalpost.com
Oh, and if you do email her, share the letter with us here, ok?
Well, here’s what I wrote to Ms. Eckler:
Dear Ms. Eckler,
I read with interest your column of September second.
Might I suggest to your editor that, the next time your paper covers the Hugos, they send someone with an actual working knowledge of (or at least mild interest in) the subject they’re covering?
If writing about what the ceremony actually concerned (i.e. the novels, novellas, and short stories being nominated) is beyond you, perhaps a change in occupation might be in order. You might find something less taxing, along the lines of assistant french-fry cook at your local McDonald’s, a tad more rewarding.
By the bye, it’s ‘laser’, not ‘lazer’…Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. It’s an acronym. Next time, ask a geek for help using your spellchecker.
The people who attended the ceremony can’t help their weak eyes. Your bad manners and condescention, however, are well within your power to change.
One thing I will agree with you on…your time would have been better spent doing something else altogether…anything else.
With extreme sincerity,
Mark Patterson
PAD: “…It is also difficult being around the more fanatical fans at, say, a baseball game. The fans who come painted with the team’s colors on their face, who perpetually have a beer in their hand, who cheer every strike call and boo every call that goes against the team. Who scream and shout and boo at the top of their lungs and get into loud arguments over arcane statistics because, dammit, *that’s* what a fan is *supposed* to be.”
That’s exactly my sentiment!
I have often used the sports fan analogy, when pointing out that there are “geeks” of all kinds, in any area.
I’ve seen Harley-Davidson geeks, football geeks, baseball geeks, hockey and basketball geeks! I’ve seen porcelain bunnies geeks, and more!
This woman that wrote the Post article brags about sneaking into the hotel party of rock stars. I guess, then, she might even be a rock star geek, herself.
These “geeks” wear t-shirts that feature the object of their interests, or adorn their walls with posters or framed pictures of the same. They may buy the magazines that feature articles about their interest, as well as attend gatherings to discuss their interests with like-minded individuals.
What is a concert, but a gathering of fans to share an experience over a common interest and see a person that is the focus of that interest?
What is the difference between Sci-Fi and comics fans from those sports, rock, and even porcelain bunnies fans?
Numbers. There are more of them. That’s about it, really.
The only other difference is that reading is more introverted. So, yes, we see more shy and awkward people in Sci-Fi and comics. Is that a crime?
Really, after seeing some of the more extroverted fans of sports, etc., I think I’ll stick with the Sci-Fi and comics crowd.
Matt Hawes
Comics Unlimited
Evansville, IN.
And the Oscors are so much better – WHY?
This lady obviously didn’t like her assignment, and didn’t have a problem with expressing that sentiment on the page.
Apparently this woman would have loved the Oscors – but what if she was in the minority in that opinion. Would she be so quick to judge others as being stupid if that was the case.
Journalists, in almost all forms of society, are really loosing their integrity. From that Fake Newsreporter who wasn’t fired becuase he was black – to newspapers who don’t want to even print the name “Indians” in communicating the name of a Baseball team.
She’s probably right – most people probably wouldn’t like the Hugos – or understand it. But does she NEED to make people who like that kind of stuff (And there certinly are a lot) feel inferior?
I normally will not touch any link associated with the National Post, but since Torcon3 was the first Worldcon I have ever attended, and I have been volunteering for Torcon3 almost since the day it was announced that Toronto would be hosting the con this year I thought I would check it out just to see how many facts the National Post got wrong this time. Reading the column, I begin to wonder if she and I even attended the same convention.
From what I have read from her column and the responses on this boards, I think that Eckler could have saved herself alot of grief had she simply gone to the press office to pick up her passes like she was supposed to. We had media from all around North America at the con running around with green media badges and they had absolutely no trouble getting access to any part of the con.There was no assigned media seating that I know of, but media covering the Hugos were more then welcome to enter (and exit) the convention hall at the same time as the rest of the attendees. Line ups for Hugo seating began over an hour before seating started and many media staff were first in line, patiently waiting their chance to get in just like the rest of us. Even though the hall filled up quickly, decent single, or double seats with a good view of either the stage or the two large screen were available right up until showtime. I couldn’t have found a bad seat in the house even if I had tried. Reserved seating was clearly marked off and I thought the Hugo staff did a wonderful job directing attendees. The ushers I spoke to were nothing but polite and helpful. But like any other person, they treat you as you treat them.
It’s articles like that that make me wish I could buld a good ‘ol time machine, go back in time a few weeks and offer to cover the Hugos for the National Post as a freelancer. I’d report the news that matters, such as the fact that local author Robert J. Sawyer finally won a Hugo after seven nominations, and leave my EGO outside the convention centre.
As for Eckler’s many comments about the dress code for the evening, I for one was dressed in my best blouse and skirt for the event, as were many other attendees. Could it be perhaps that she simply was not comfortable in the relaxed, come-as-you-are atmosphere that is traditional of fen cons? Did she feel lost when she realized that she would need more than a sleek outfit to turn heads?
What really strikes me as strange is that Eckler feels comfortably calling sf fans geeks because we apparently use that same term to refer to ourselves. Her source on this is a quote from Robert J. Sawyer’s acceptance speech where he refers to himself as a “fat, bald geek who knows wa too much Star Trek trivia.” The first problem with the quote is the way she truncated it to fit into her paragraph. The complete quote was given as a salute by Rob to his wife,Carolyn Clink. It was reposted by Rob Sawyer himself on his message board. It was intended as a humourous way of expessing his gratitude to his wife. The complete quote is as follows:
“Without her, I’d be just a fat, bald, geek who knows way too much Star Trek trivia. Okay — even with her, I’m just a fat, bald, geek who knows way too much Star Trek trivia, but it’s a lot more fun having her along for the ride. Carolyn, I love you totally and completely.”
The second, and largest problem I have with this article is that this very quote was given at the very end of the ceremony as Rob accepted his Hugo for best novel. So if Eckler left the ceremony halfway through, how is it possible for her to have heard the quote?
Fact-checking errors like that can destroy not only the credability of the columnist, but that of the paper that allows it to go to press.
Re: Sabrina’s message. There was reserved seating for press. Three separate areas in fact; two rows directly behind the nominees for non-photographing press, near the front rows (behind a row for the visually and hearing impaired) on one side for photography press, and two seats specially reserved for Mark Askwith from the Space channel and his camerawoman (which they got because Mark was at Neil’s signing, as was I. We had a very nice discussion about what Space would be doing at the Hugos, his former work in comics, the lovely tin ceiling in the Chum City building that includes Space’s offices, etc. He described his camerawoman, and when I encountered her back at the convention centre later on, we went into the hall and figured out where she’d want to be positioned. I then reserved two seats for them in that location.)
And thanks for the compliments about the ushers. This was my second year as Worldcon Events House Manager, and both years I was favored with an excellent house crew of ushers who had to deal with many difficult and/or unexpected situations due to oddities of the venues. With the possible exception of Eckler, I’ve heard (and been told by others that this also applies to what they’ve heard in crowds and the like) nothing but compliments about them. They did a wonderful job.
On the lighter side of things, this all reminds me of the Geek Hierarchy:
http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html
On the serious side, I favour a “live and let live” attitude. I’ve encountered the “sci-fi fans are all a bunch of losers who need to get lives” attitude a few times, which I dislike. On the other hand, I also despise the term “mundane”, when used to refer to anyone outside a given activity. Of course, it’s not just SF where this division comes in – I’ve seen bikers who refer to car drivers as “cagers”.
Personally, I have friends who are SF fans, and friends who aren’t, and I have no wish to insult any of them.
Thinking of conventions in particular, I’d certainly agree that you get a wide spectrum of people there. Equally, you get a wide variety of opinions on who is “better” than others. For instance, I was at the Wrap Party (B5 convention where PAD was a guest) a few years ago. There was one panel where someone referred to a particular B5 episode by its title (I don’t recall which one). Someone in the audience then put up his hand and asked which episode that was, and the moderator audibly groaned and rolled her eyes – an attitude of “who let that fool in?” Speaking for myself, I’ve seen every episode, and I’d describe myself as a fan of the series, but I wouldn’t recognise many of the episode names (including that one). At the other end of the scale, a bunch of us were chatting by the swimming pool one evening, and someone referred to “the subgroup of fandom that’s the 30 year old male virgin” (paraphrasing slightly). I’d say that it’s probably an accurate observation, but I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically wrong with that.
So, the point of all this – generalising isn’t very accurate. This has been today’s “statement of the obvious”…
I read her article — twice, in case my first reaction was based on a misunderstanding — and I had several thoughts and a punishment for Ms. Rebecca Eckler.
First, this article was clearly written (and probably assigned) not to review the Hugos but to mock the fans. It reminds me of DORK TOWER # 23, where an editor is assigning a piece on Gaming (“I read somewhere that 10% of juvenile delinquents have played DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS at some point in their lives.” “Haven’t 10% of all juveniles played DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS at some point in their lives?” “Shut up, Robbie!”) While one would hope they had an article on the actual awards plus this — like a review of the Oscar winners as well as a fashion commentary — I wouldn’t bet money on it. This piece was like someone going to a baseball game, talking about the goofy fans the whole time, and failing to say anything about the actual game.
Second, it’s a very poor reflection (and idiotic of her to mention it) on Ms. Eckler to mention that she fell asleep during LOTR. I do movie reviews, and I’ve seen movies both long, steadily paced, and mind-numbingly boring — and I’ve never fallen asleep during them (even when my companions did). I guess Ms. Eckler wants to show that she’s not a geek; she showed me that she doesn’t have the consciousness, or patience, to be a critic.
Third, it’s clear she failed to mention any relatively normal fans. (I’d say “failed to see” but conventions are not nonstop costumes and geeks.) So all we get is someone so overawed by the targets for her ridicule that she can’t see that there are normal sci-fi fans as well.
As for her punishment, I say we sick Harlan Ellison on her. Lock them in a room where he can explain the wonderful diversity of fandom, the merits of the writers she didn’t care to stick around for, and the abysmal mental facilities of a critic who can’t stay asleep during a movie or review the reason for a gathering.
I’d dearly, dearly love to hear that conversation.
P.S. If you’re going to write to the National Post, be sure to send your info to queries@nationalpost.com . Ms. Eckler might shrug off negative comments from a bunch of geeks, but I doubt her bosses there would take it so lightly.
This actually is doubly worse now that I know that Tom Galloway was in charge. While I’ve encountered a lot of rude and poorly run events at conventions (I’m unlikely to return to an Anime Expo), I’ve known Tom for a number of years in Real Life (and a bit longer online.) He’s clearly someone who understands and respects doing a job professionally, and has above average people skills. He should be considered an extremely credible source, and pretty much deflates the argument that she had a bad experience and reacted to that.
Fortunately, I spend a _lot_ more time around the Galloways of the world than the Ecklers.
I remember some years ago going to a Doctor Who convention in the UK. At some point during the weekend, the con chairman asked me if I would speak to a newspaper reporter over the phone- apparently they wanted an American perspective about Doctor Who fandom. Before speaking to the reporter, I got my then-girlfriend (now wife) on the phone, and she told me in no uncertain terms that the newspaper in question was one of the sleazier tabloids, and was no doubt looking for a few quotes that could be twisted in a negative fashion. Well, a short time later, I was put in touch with the reporter. For about ten minutes, I was subjected to a not-so-subtle stream of leading questions and attempts to put words into my mouth. Having been warned in advance, I was able to fend off the questions. The reporter got more and more annoyed, and finally cut the interview short. When the piece came out a day or two later, they simply made up the quotes and attributed them to me.
Over the past couple of decades, I’ve probably been to hundreds of conventions, in several different countries. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair, or make you glad to be a fan of SF. On the negative side, I’ve met loud fans, and fans that stick to you like glue. Some of them gossip about other fans, some look down onn other fandoms as second-class life forms. I’ve met fans dressed as Klingons or Psi Cops or The Master, all of whom refuse to break character, making conversation all but impossible.
But there have been a lot of positives. I met a fan who worked in gemstones, and made the most exquisite gifts for some of the convention guests. I’ve talked to people with the most terrifying infirmities and handicaps, who come to conventions at great physical and financial costs, just so they could spend a couple of days chatting with people who had similar interests. I went to a convention in Newcastle, where the local fans (bearing in mind that this was a financially depressed area) literally emptied their pockets to raise enough money to pay for another guide dog to help out their assigned charity. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
I guess what I’m trying to say in a very long-winded and rambling fashion, is that fans are what they are. You take the good with the bad, and for the most part, the good pretty much outweighs the bad by a wide margin. That’s why we continue to go to these little conclaves.
And if there’s a lesson to be learned, it’s this: if you see a pregnant Canadian pseudo-journalist with a chip on her shoulder, steer clear. Or better yet, shoot to kill.
Might suggest to the editor that he take a look at the MidAmerica Fan Photo Archive. The pictures speak loudly to the writer’s claim of having been the best-dressed person there. A tux or two, lots of suits and ties, some elegant dresses and long gowns.