Word is already circulating that Marvel’s presence at the San Diego con is non-existent. I can’t say I’m entirely surprised. Understand, this is purely speculation on my part; I’ve no inside information. But if you’ve ever been to SD, you know the DC booth is a thing of beauty. About three times bigger than my first apartment, with monitors and a logo you can see from Pasadena. If Marvel shows up with about what they can afford–a 3 x 6 table–immediately the reaction is gonna be, “Keee-rist, did you see the pathetic display Marvel has compared to DC’s?” Especially considering the repeated contempt with which Marvel has referred to its crosstown rival. It may well be the reasoning was that if they couldn’t afford to do it right, better not to do it at all. My understanding is that Marvel has some small presence as part of the Wizard display.
If I’m right, Marvel may well have the right idea. Better to do nothing than do something half-assed. Still…it’s kind of sad.
PAD
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Is this just a sign of smart financial management (cutting costs in order to get rid of debt), or is it indicative of downward slide?
I thought Marvel was rolling in the dough after Bill Jemas took over. At least, it seems that he tries to claim success for everything since the invention of the wheel, so one would think Marvel is doing swimmingly.
Matt Hawes
654-B E. Diamond Ave.
Evansville, IN. 47711
Well, Marvel is reporting that they are strongly cash-flow positive, the last numbers I can find are March 2003, but they showed that they added at least $40MM in cash to their balance sheet. Skipping San Diego just doesn’t seem like a wise move, if for nothing else for the “attracting new talent and professionals” standpoint, let alone the affect on the readership…
Much the same thing was true at early June’s BookExpo America (the annual trade book publisher and bookstore show). DC has their usual elaborate, many-spaced booth (albeit in the back corner of the hall, in the
“graphic novel ghetto”–but the booths were jumpin’ and frequently busy when I walked past). Marvel had one single booth with poor signage and one guy manning a curtained table. At this BEA, which heavily featured panels, programs, and info for bookstore buyers and librarians on how to integrate comics and graphic novels into their stock, Marvel dropped the ball big-time.
Sounds like they’re doing so again.
The same basically happened last year. Quesada was asked about it during his forum, and his response was in essense that it’s expensive to set up lavish displays and that they felt the money was best spent on other things.
The same basically happened last year. Quesada was asked about it during his forum, and his response was in essense that it’s expensive to set up lavish displays and that they felt the money was best spent on other things.
I ran into one Marvel editor at dinner Wednesday nght and he was happy they weren’t set up, since he could actually enjoy the con for once.
PAD I have to ask you a favor. Could you please stop the criticizing of Marvel until you are finished your Captain Marvel run? I really don’t want you fired from that comic because of stuff said on your website. However I do agree with you about the Marvel no show at the Con. later
Marvel’s display at Wizard Con was pretty blah, especially compared to DC and the much smaller Crossgen. Call it good business, but I think they are disrespecting their fans.
It does sound peculiar though. I don’t go to the conventions, but I gather San Diego is a major trade show for the industry. If Marvel commands such a huge market share, it would seem they should have a major presence. And I would think the cost of the show would be a small entry on their fiscal books (as opposed to their funny books). Does Marvel have a big parent company (like DC has Warner Bros)? I gotta think the money they’ve made in conjunction with some of their recent films flows into their operating budget, but maybe it doesn’t.
I know nothing about the San Diego show, but I loathed the set-up that Marvel had at Wizard World East in Philly. Felt like I was waiting for an amusement park ride. At least DC’s was entertaining to look at.
Very, very curious….
The thing is…..Marvel IS doing better these days, with income AND revenue from publishing (not just licensing) rising quarter-to-quarter and from year-to-year. Jemas takes credit for this because he deserves to get credit–or, at least, this rise came on his watch, which can’t be said for earlier regimes.
It doesn’t make sense on the face of it…but the consequences have not been showing up in the sales figures. Perhaps recruitment, contacts, etc. are happening in other venues?
Jason:
I’m curious: do you really think Jemas, Quesada, et al are really that thin skinned? I’m not trying to contradict you…I have zero idea if they are or not…I’m just wondering if you think they’re really so far gone that they’d take a fairly innocuous statement about their presence in San Diego so personally that they’d fire someone from a comic book over it, especially one that is admitted to be speculation?
I’d throw that out to everyone…is Marvel really that far into a siege mentality, or whatever you’d call it, where anything even remotely unflattering is grounds for dismissal?
Small presence or no presence….it still speaks volumes as to the state of affairs at Marvel as compared to the rest of the industry.
Of course, the big-wig-muckety-mucks don’t see it that way. To them this whole comic book “thing” is just a piddly nuisance which makes up only 5% of their bottom line…oy vey…
I’ve worked alot of trade shows for both private and public sectors, (not in comics though) and believe me when i tell you that Marvel isn’t missing anything.
Trade shows ARE fun for the fans, but they are fun because they meet the writers and artists and see the dealers, not the publishers.
In practical business terms, no one is going to go into their local comic book store and say “Gee” i DID want to buy Bendis’ Ultimate Spiderman, but Marvel’s booth sucked, so I’m gonna go with Harley Quinn instead.
Sorry to not be a part of the team “Marvel Haters” but the $20,000 or so dollars which big booths can sometimes cost is helping to pay PAD to write Captain Marvel.
Lets get our priorities in order, Marvel is saving money for writers, David, Bendis, Millar, Ennis, JMS and many more. and THATS the way it should be.
p.s. maybe if DC saved their money on a GOOD writer that Lee’s Batman run would have a script as good as its art.
Having been to a few trade shows in my life time from both as an attendee and displayer, I often question the value of them. As Luke said, it’s great for the fans, but from a pure $$ perspective, I think other forms of advertising are more effective in increasing sales.
On the other hand, conventions and trade shows tend to be good spawning ground for developing new ventures or partnerships. In other words, it’s a good place to network. Marvel may be missing the boat in attracting new talent by skipping out on the biggest comic trade show in North America.
PAD I have to ask you a favor. Could you please stop the criticizing of Marvel until you are finished your Captain Marvel run? I really don’t want you fired from that comic because of stuff said on your website. However I do agree with you about the Marvel no show at the Con. later
I reread my posting three times and don’t see it as critical of Marvel. I said that a no-show was preferable to having fans making snide comments about underachieving. And I said they’ve repeatedly criticized DC, which has a large display at San Diego. True and true.
But I do appreciate your concern.
PAD
What? Marvel is saving it’s money to pay the writers?
I am a little too skeptical to believe that Marvel is saving it’s money for anyone else but Marvel. Maybe they will take the 20 grand or whatever it would cost to put on a show and spread it around as bonuses or just payment to creators, but I doubt it. More likely they will simply keep the cash and set on it. A penny earned and all that….
Luke writes:
Lets get our priorities in order, Marvel is saving money for writers, David, Bendis, Millar, Ennis, JMS and many more. and THATS the way it should be.
Interesting observation. I’ve noted in recent months that it seems like Marvel has moved away from their “hire great creators and produce the best books we can” approach circa the “Heroes Return” period, to “hire hot creators and produce the best-marketed books we can.”
I don’t claim that they’re doing this consistently across-the-board, but I certainly think Bendis, Millar, Ennis and Straczynski fit this bill. As a group I think these guys weigh in more strongly on the “hot” side than the “good” side. I don’t have an opinion on Ennis’ actual writing, but he’s certainly trendy. Straczynski I think is a good writer, if often-frustrating. Bendis’ writing seems pretty run-of-the-mill, and Millar, well, if I can’t say anything good then perhaps I should keep my mouth shut.
DC is a whole ‘nother kettle of worms, and comparing the two on these grounds seems kind of pointless. This is just my impression of Marvel’s overall creative strategy. Which I think helps explain why I buy so few Marvel books.
I wonder if this effects the press the companies get somewhat too. In the first two days- I’ve heard about:
DC: New Astro City; Grant Morrison Signing a 2 year exclusive; Superman/Thundercats; LOEG v.3 is for sure; “It’s A Bird”, the vertigo superman book; New Dini and Timm Harley and Ivy 3 issue mini; J. Scott Campbell new book is signed to Wildstorm, new Warren Ellis books, Sam Keith’s Scratch, Elfquest plans, and more.
Marvel: Rob Liefield is doing covers for Deadpool/Cable. That’s the only thing that was anounced at the con.
Even Dark horse and Crossgen have gotten more press. So whoever it was above that said you don’t get a lot by being there, you get a lot.
Well I’ve only been to one comic con. and I was really disappointed. Paying like $20 for admition and then being forced to pay again for autographs of stars of one hit TV shows. Anyways….
It seems that right now Marvel is having the edge right now in comics. But pretty much in the end what it boils down too is who makes the best comics. And and in sales right now it is marvel.
I would love to see people picking up Wildcats 3.0, 100 Bullets, Astro City but they are not. And I think having a flashy DC booth won’t help sales in these comics.
Frankly the avg. comic reader would much rather have a amazing Spider-Man story. (Sorry could resistant) Than a flashy disply booth with flat screen TV’s and tons of freebies.
IMO, Marvel is at least on track in one aspect of there buisness.
Mike M: Marvel’s display at Wizard Con was pretty blah, especially compared to DC and the much smaller Crossgen. Call it good business, but I think they are disrespecting their fans.
Luigi Novi: How the hëll do you figure this?
Participation in a convention is not something a company is obligated to do. Their only obligation lies in the production of their books. Conventions are certainly nice, but not mandatory.
Well in the past I have heard that PAD has been threatened that he will be fired from a Marvel if he doesn’t “tow the company line” as they say and I really don’t want him to be fired. I also re read your post and I guess you are right it isn’t critical of Marvel. 🙂 I guess I just jumped the gun. Have a nice day
This is going off topic, but what jumped at me off the blog was the Superman/Thundercats team up. I went right to the CBG website and saw it announced with a new Thundercats mini-series. I have a nine year old boy, and he enjoys (and I enjoy getting him) Thundercats, Masters of the Universe and Transformers Armada. He’s coming into the hobby from tie-ins to his Cartoon Network shows. There aren’t too many comics out there that are both appropriate and catch the interest of kids my son’s age. And it’s too bad too that they are licensed materials, so for me, there is only so far they could take the stories and move the characters (though I was surprised on some of the twists that came up in Thundercats, for those who read them). I think back to when I was his age (1968) and the stories were certainly appropriate for a ten year old and you had the sense they could go anywhere (and I walked two miles in the snow barefoot to get them). There’s a series out there called “Invincible” that looks like it has that old-time Spider-Man feel and there is supposed to be a trade collection of the first four issues in August. If it delivers what I think I may get it for him and see if he likes it, and add it to his pull list. I know I’m digressing here, but hey, what better place to do that, eh?
This is slightly on-topic in that it concerns Marvel and PAD:
PAD, congrats! I saw that Neal Adams will be providing the cover to a future issue of “Captain Marvel,” and it looks GREAT!!
Matt Hawes
654-B E. Diamond Ave.
Evansville, IN. 47711
Marvel is saving money for top-notch writers by not putting up displays at cons?
Hmmm. Given that Grant Morrison just signed a two-year exclusive contract with DC, I’d say they need to save some more.
JSM
The last time I was at SDCC I spent a great deal of time just hanging out at all the publisher booths, including Marvel’s even though to be totally honest I don’t read alot of Marvel comics at the moment. I didn’t spent too much time on the autographs because I was on a Canadian student’s budget (which is to say trying not to spend anything), Most of the anime being shows I already own or have no interest in, and for about half of each day the panels being run were of no interest to me. I spent the most time at the DC and Dark Horse booths though because it was there that I could actually READ current and upcoming comics that I would otherwise not bother to check out, and talk to the people responsible for those comics to give them feedback on what I liked and what I thought needed work. Granted, what I was reading was usually a black and white proof, but it was better than nothing. The Marvel booth, while nice to look at with its shiny displays and flat screen TV’s, really had no substance to it and when I talked to some of the sales staff who were running the booth at the time I visited it, it was clear that they didn’t read their own books very much.
It’s kind of dissappointing to hear that Marvel doesn’t have a booth at SDCC this year. I’m not saying this as a Marvel-hater, truth is I don’t read enough Marvel books to have any kind of opinion on them. Trade shows and conventions are where I have discovered nearly two thirds of the comics I read today, and its where a good deal of non-traditional markets such as bookstores and libraries send their buyers when they need to do a bit more research on future acquisitions. If half of the stories I hear about Marvel’s financial future are true then I really think they should have spent the money on a low-rent 3X6 table at least. They could use the exposure. While it wouldn’t have looked very good for them to simply set up a 3X6 table, I think it looks alot WORSE for them to have no table at all.
Sabrina
If anyone wanted to see the Neil Adams CM cover- just point your browser here:
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0307/18/captainmarvel15.jpg
It seems a lot of comments about Marvel’s no-show seem to be an “either-or” division where putting up a booth would take money away from the writers, or skipping the convention will have more money for other Marvel products. Unless Marvel’s budget is *really* stretched thin, I don’t think that’s a factor.
Even if conventions like this don’t directly generate advertising sales, I suspect it can create some very good word-of-mouth among fans, which can reach more fans, which can reach comic shops, which can lead to more orders. It sounds like DC realizes this and their booth is designed to get people talking. And I’m amazed that Marvel might pass on the same opportunity, for fear of only generating talk about how much cooler DC’s booth is.
Since, I never was in a BIG con, like San Diego, i can
From Newsarama: “When asked why there was no Marvel booth at the convention, Quesada said that it was a cost-cutting measure, clear and simple. While he said he wished things could be different, Marvel has to pick and choose where it will go very carefully. Quesada stressed that the current Marvel management, responsible, in his eyes, for raising Marvel’s stock from $2 a share to over $20 in relatively short order, does so by not spending money extravagantly, which, Quesada said, the price of setting up in San Diego is.”
Hogwash. That’s what I say about Quesada’s claiming credit for Marvel stock being near $20 a share. The Marvel movies did that, not anybody in management.
I live in Orlando. Marvel was a No-show at the Orlando Comic -con but their presence was still felt with all of their creators showing up through other publishers. I felt let down when I started looking for the Marvel table so I could take my son. I think it sucks that they are limiting their presence at the conventions when now would be the best time to have a greater presence with the added attractions of the movies.
Totally off topic, but the first toy pics from the con are coming in, and there’s a new Hulk Classics line coming out (a la Marvel Legends). The first assortment has an Abomination, a savage Hulk, and two clearly PAD-influenced figures: a Mr. Fixit and a Smart Hulk (with glasses, no less). The pictures I saw were on action-figure.com, thought people might want to check them out.
With all the exclusives DC is announcing at SDCC (so far, we have Grant Morrison, Jeph Loeb, Tim Sale, and possibly Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo – although that was unclear), it seems a good thing Marvel opted not to have a booth. Their non-presence helps them in losing much less face than if they had a booth setup. Exciting times at DC…just like Marvel back a 2 years ago.
So PAD, when’s your DC exclusive going to close?
Let’s take Quesada’s comments at face value. So, Marvel has to “pick and choose” where they’ll have a presence. Doesn’t it seem logical that they would, indeed, want to “pick” the largest comic-con in the nation? One of the “big two” publishers skipping SDCCI is like NBC skipping the largest television convention. Even if we were to agree that Marvel’s at the top of their game (and I wouldn’t…in fact, I’m Mark Waid’s remaining issues of FF away from dropping the few remaining Marvel titles I read, save Captain Marvel), that’s all the more reason to have a presence; show up at the largest show in full force to say, “Yeah, we’re the big guys, and here’s why. And you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.”
Instead, no presence simply sends the message to pros, competitors and readers alike that Marvel has nothing worthwhile to show us.
Betcha Marvel sets up at all the Wizard cons.
Participation in a convention is not something a company is obligated to do. Their only obligation lies in the production of their books. Conventions are certainly nice, but not mandatory.
That is my point. They aren’t obligated to be at shows, but it’s something that’s cool for the fans. Shows like this should be treated as a opputunity to meet and thank the fans that put you where you are. DC understands this, and so does Crossgen. Marvel seems not to.
But like someone else said, their setup at Wiz Con Phily was so poorly done, that you really couldn’t enjoy it, anyway.
By Londo:
Well, Marvel is reporting that they are strongly cash-flow positive, the last numbers I can find are March 2003, but they showed that they added at least $40MM in cash to their balance sheet. Skipping San Diego just doesn’t seem like a wise move, if for nothing else for the “attracting new talent and professionals” standpoint, let alone the affect on the readership…
Now that’s a good question as to if they’re really doing that well there. My theory is that in spite of everything, they may actually be doing less well than expected, and now, with the departure of various talents to DC and elsewhere, it could be that they’re unable to pay every one of them the proper salaries they give ’em.
Whatever, they most certainly are being disrespectful to the fans, it’s no secret by now, and it could be that their absence at the SDCC is one example. Hmmm….
BTW, Marvel didn’t have a booth, but they did have a hospitality suite (with plenty of drink available) at the show.
On one level, Marvel can sort of have its cake and eat it too, since a good many creators are here, just not on their dime. Bendis was in Image island, Mark and Kurt were at DC (and other random places), Rucka was at DC and Oni, Johns was at DC, Morrison was at DC, etc.
Of course, it doesn’t help that a fair number of Marvel creators had DC exclusive contracts announced (you can Rucka to the list, although he will still be doing Q&C).
“Now that’s a good question as to if they’re really doing that well there. My theory is that in spite of everything, they may actually be doing less well than expected”
Nah, don’t think so. It’s all in the quarterly reports…and for a company emerging from bankruptcy, they’ll be careful about pulling hanky panky. Marvel actually is doing as well as it seems…and from wahtw can tell, it’s doing better than DC.
What it seems to be ocurring is that Quesda’s policy of hiring top notch creators and turning them loose was a temproary policy and they’re reverting to their old policies of emphasizing characters over creators.
Seriously, what would the Con have garnered them? Fans are disgruntled by the lack of respect that Marvel management has for them, PLUS their stocks are up. Movies or not, with the higher stock prices, all the Con could do for them is give Marvel-bashers a place to bash them to their faces.
At a distributor meeting, I watched some of my best retailers lace into the Marvel rep. As competent as she was, her slide show and promises did nothing to make the retailers happy. With object lessons like that, why spend the bucks for what would be a very expensive whipping post?
FWIW: Rich Johnston reported a couple weeks back that Marvel was going to sign a deal with Wizard where they appeared exclusively at Wizard World conventions.
This certainly appears to be the case at this point.
–JB
“Participation in a convention is not something a company is obligated to do. Their only obligation lies in the production of their books. Conventions are certainly nice, but not mandatory.”
I disagree. Conventions are marketing tools, and extremely good ones. They provide contact with both retailers and fans, and get folks interested in upcoming products before their release. A big splash at CCI can translate into big bucks at the retail level.
A publisher not having a booth at CCI is like an automobile manufacturer not having space at the Detroit Auto Show, or a computer graphics firm pulling out of SIGGRAPH. The lack of presence sends a massive signal to the industry and fans that all is not as well with your firm as it seems.
Saving $20K in fees? That’s piss money for a firm as large as Marvel. A friend of mine is the Programming Director at CCI, and what I heard was simple: Marvel tried to be prima donnas and demand all sorts of concessions for being there. CCI didn’t bite, so Marvel walked. Instead, they’ll be appearing at the Wizard World event in L.A. later this year.
The whole thing smacks of the Heroes World debacle in the distribution side of things, and all that ended up doing was destroying everyone but Diamond and a couple of specialty distros. I doubt the result will be quite the same, but it’s definetly one of Marvel’s dumber decisions this year.
Not only did they miss San Diego, they missed the biggest San Diego ever. The entire expanded exhibit hall was already packed to the gills. There was plenty of Marvel stuff in sight, as their licensors were around, but given the huge buzz surrounding Marvel’s movie projects in particular, to not be at this particular show strikes me as shooting yourself in the foot. The marketing and promotional opportunities were huge.
For one thing, several times during the con, I was asked by local “civilians” (maitre d’s at restaurants, bartenders, and such) if I had seen either Halle Berry or Hugh Jackman.
Plus, all their competitors had huge displays — not just DC, but CrossGen and Dark Horse had massive displays that were always crowded. This was an opportunity to reach out and push the company in a positive light (it’s just about impossible to push the company in a negative light at Comic-Con; just being there makes a huge difference).
I can understand why the decision was made, but that still, IMO, makes it a totally wrong one.
Oh, and proof that the fates have a sense of humor: The funniest thing I saw at the con was that they had placed Rob Liefeld’s booth right next to Fantagraphics’s. (Given that most folks have started paying attention to the kid bellowing that the emperor’s buck nekkid, Rob’s booth got considerably less foot traffic than Fantagraphics’….)
—KRAD
By the way, Marvel wasn’t missed. The con had enough of everyone else to satisfy the comic fans. This was the largest convention I have ever seen in any way, and that includes three years of Comic-Con, seven of GEN CON and even the massive NAB broadcasting trade shows of the 1970’s.
It might be that Marvel couldn’t stand comparison in such a large convention. Could be they want someplace where they wouldn’t be compared to their neighbor across the hall. (Although DC and CrossGen seemed to be happy being neighbors on the convention floor. Both those companies don’t have controversies quite as major as Marvel’s.)
I believe Quesada’s reason for a lack of Marvel’s presence was that (A) it costs too much for a big display, and (B) they’re going “all out” for WizardWorld Chicago.
After last year’s embarassing appearance in a “back alley” makeshift table, I can see why they no-showed this year (I heard many people talking about their table much like Peter described above), especially since their attitude seems to be “Even though we brag about making more money and selling more comics and being more relevant than DC, we’re still ‘poor’ and can’t afford to go to San Diego. Boo hoo!”
Oh, and proof that the fates have a sense of humor: The funniest thing I saw at the con was that they had placed Rob Liefeld’s booth right next to Fantagraphics’s. (Given that most folks have started paying attention to the kid bellowing that the emperor’s buck nekkid, Rob’s booth got considerably less foot traffic than Fantagraphics’….)
That is pretty funny.
Runner-up vote goes to this year’s Best Unintentionally Apt Movie Tag Line, attached to the trailer for “The Punisher” —
“The Punishment Begins Summer 2004.”
Yeah, sure looks like…
TWL
A few comments on the con and Marvel’s lack of appearance.
Having one of the major publishers not having a presence on the floor of the biggest trade show in the country is not a good thing (and the Punisher movie promo didn’t count). For the fans, what that meant is that a lot of the Marvel writers and artists didn’t have a place to make an appearance (unless they did other publishers) at a booth where the fans could find them. True, there was plenty of other stuff to look at and see (can a convention get too big?) this year.
Even with the expanded exhibit floor, they still had dealers on a waiting list to get in if there were any no-shows or cancellations.
Lee Whiteside
sftv.org
Marvel is even practically non-existent when it comes to Book conventions, too. At the American Library Association conferences (outside of this year’s conference in Toronto that drove nearly everyone away) – you can see DC Comics, Dark Horse, Viz, TokyoPop, Drawn & Quarterly, CrossGen, and Diamond Comics there for the last few years. I’ve asked Marvel to consider appearing at a convention like this, but they don’t seem to have the interest or money (or both) to do something like this. I remember in days long ago that Marvel and DC were at smaller cons like the Mid-Ohio-Con. Sad that times have changed so much that Marvel can’t even make it to the largest comic con.