Just for chuckles, I looked in on the current John Byrne Fan Site since, a few months ago, they couldn’t wait to dismiss “Fallen Angel” as a Buffy rip-off. Now that they could actually read it and comment upon it, I was wondering if anyone would do so.
One guy started a thread and was immediately jumped on for launching an “off topic” thread (despite the plethora of “off topic threads” already extant) with such an “obvious agenda” (because apparently bringing up my work constitutes an agenda). I could just feel the warmth radiating from my monitor.
The best, though, was the genius who (not having read the book, of course) declared he thought that “Bludhaven” was “a lousy name for a town,” but he never thought he “would see another even worse. Who would call a town “Bete Noir”?? Or “Bludhaven” for that matter??”
Well, gee. I could have gone for something even more obvious, like Hëll, but that’s a real city in Michigan. Or perhaps Panic or Fearnot, but those are both in Pennsylvania. Some believe that Bete Noire is where the dead reside, so I could have called it River Styx, but that’s in Ohio. Peculiar would’ve been good, but the folks in Peculiar, Missouri, might have objected. Maybe the sound makes when one is scared: Eek. But no, that’s in Alaska, the state that also gave us a town called Chicken. The population of Bete Noire is eclectic, but we’d probably hear from the mayor of Eclectic, Alabama, who might have been tipped off to it by the mayor of another Alabama locale, Muck City.
I could have gone for something ironic and called it Plain City, but that’s in Utah, or Boring, but that’s in Maryland. Or just plain No Name, but that’s in Colorado. My search for a city name built to a Climax…Climax, North Carolina, not to be confused with Climax, Pennsylvania, which is also not to be confused with Intercourse, Pennsylvania.
And shall we discuss Monkeys Elbow, Kentucky or the name of another city in Louisiana…Uncle Sam, LA? Nah.
Man, whenever my name comes up anywhere on a Byrne related board, it’s always good for some laughs. The current fan board says “All New, All Different.” Seems pretty same old/same old to me.
PAD
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You know, I could say that people who don’t understand the name Bete Noir need to read more, but…
…oddly, my first impression of the name was that it, and the premise of Fallen Angel (a corrupt little city) reminded me of the movie The Big Easy.
So that’s what I think of when I hear Bete Noir. I half expect it to be a part of the vast New Orleans metro area where law and order don’t quite reach. 🙂
Heh. I just realized after posting the above that myself and PAD are the only ones crazy enough to be up and working at this time of night. 🙂
Hey, I scored a perfect “16” in reading and comprehension on my college entrance exam back in 1992 because comics made me look up terms like “bete noir” back then. =)
As for the Byrne Victims, everyone be cool. PADophiles can be rabid on occasion as well. I seem to recall getting flamed within an inch of my monitor for asking what class a starship was in the NEW FRONTIER “Captain’s Table” book back when. =)
Bete Noir; translated form the French would stand as “Black Beast”.
Who in their right mind would call a city such a stupid name.
Oh I see.
Since many cities DO have stupid names, it is a great idea to use a stupid one.
Riiiiiight.
The whole Byrne thing blows up every now and then. On my site we just had a discussion about the inhumans and one of the people asked if Lockjaw was a dog or an inhuman ? This reminded me the atrocity that Byrne had done in making Lockjaw speak, and the way PAD corrected it on the pages of X-factor.
Not having read Fallen Angel yet, I can’t comment about it, but I do have a question – shouldn’t the spelling be ‘Bete Noire‘ ?
And as for alternative name, you could always call it “Schwartze Chaye”.
Ah the curse of speaking multiple languages.
Names like Bete Noire might seem cool to English speaking people, but it just sounds silly in French.
It might sound cool to call something “l’Anus Bleu”, but once you know it is a silly as “the Blue Poop-hole”, it does not seem so cool anymore.
But I guess it might sound cool to those who do not know better.
So many will read the sdventures that happens in the Beast Black town.
Good for you.
Maybe I should write my book featuring L’Anus Bleu and le Cul Vert.
I’ll make a fortune.
X posted: Names like Bete Noire might seem cool to English speaking people, but it just sounds silly in French.
How much sillier is the name of Louisiana’s capital–Baton Rouge (which means “red stick”)? Or even that fairly obscure town, Los Angeles–that is, of course, an abbreviated form of the old name, but “The Angels” as a city name? What about naming a city “Yellow” (such as “Amarillo” in Texas)?
The US has plenty of places which have “foreign” names which, if taken literally by speakers of those languages, make little sense or may even be a bit silly. (Of course, England has a lot of odd-sounding place names, until you do a bit of poking through the region’s history.)
It should also be noted that b
Speaking of odd town names, Durham (in the North-East of England) has “Pity Me” and “No Place”. (There’s an annual run between the two of them, which I think is mainly an excuse to print both names on a T-shirt.)
Man, John Byrne got me into superheroes. That’s why it’s so sad when I see his columns these days. They’re always so bitter and anal. And he rants about so much that he himself is guilty of that… well frankly, he doesn’t seem too bright.
Which is pretty sad for me as a fan. His run on “Fantastic Four” will always be my own “Golden Age of Comics.”
Random trivia – Baton Rouge was named after Le petit baton rouge or little red stick, which was compared to the color or tabasco-like peppers to determine if they were ready. Big business in those parts, back in the day…
They still have Byrne victims?
Can anybody explain the bad blood between Byrne and David? (Or is it a case of someone who was good once who no longer is, being jealous of someone who keeps getting better?)
Just a few random thoughts that have drifted through my head upon reading PAD’s note and the resulting comments:
1. There’s also a Boring, Oregon.
2. Besides the name of the town, there’s been another Bete Noir in the DCU: A villainess named Bette Noire in the Martian Manhunter comic book.
3. For those mentioning non-English place names, one of my favorites is Manteca, California. In Spanish, mateca means lard.
You know what? I LIKE “Bette Noir” and “Bludhaven.” I’ll tell you why:
Metropolis
Gotham
Keystone
Gateway
In each of the examples above the fictional cities are characters as much as they are settings. Those settings affect the characters who live there as much as other characters would.
Bet this guy HATED Kurt Busiek’s Astro City.
And let’s not forget Purgatory, Colorado. Or, if you want something simple, how about the town of Bill in Wyoming?
And hey! Watch what you say about Metropolis! I’ve been there and seen the 15 foot statue of Superman and the Superman museum. It’s in SE Illinois.
Hey Peter – don’t forget that Intercourse, PA is right next to Blue Ball, PA…those whacky Amish…
Perdition, Kansas. Guess that Road to Perdition comic must have sucked the big one, eh?
This was a very good read. It was a good setup I hope you evolve the setup as you go. I almost thoought this was within the DCU. Is it? Can it be if it is creator owned?
The only nit was when Pad had a “grammar joke” I think about redundancy in the book. This broke the immersion th book made for me. It’s not good when the author’s “voice” peeks through the dialogue. Just my opinion.
Anyway, I really enjoyed it and it is on my pull list (which is pretty short these days)
So “X” has never heard of the idea of using an interesting place name as a way to help establish a mood?
Mr. X, you really need to expand your horizons. Read more, travel more, live more. Lots of interesting things happen outside of Mom & Dad’s house.
…and speaking of weird city names, I live in a little town in Quebec, Canada named ‘Ile Bizard’, which is [phonetic] French for ‘Strange Island’, or ‘Bizarre’ Island if you will.
And yes, it gets pretty spooky at night.
If you want to read some interesting town names, read Blue Highways by William Least-Heat Moon.
He shows us Dime Box, Texas and other towns like Why, WhyNot and a plethora of small wonderful towns in the rural US.
Travis
Haha! PAD, that post is awesome. I confess, I’ve been drawn to the Byrne board lately out of some morbid fascination with these folks who are turning out to be some of the most rabidly depraved people on the net.
I don’t refer to everyone on the board, mind you; some are quite friendly and intelligent. I debated with one of the posters there about the Hulk movie, for example, and while we ended up agreeing to disagree, he was nonetheless very civil.
But wow… PAD, if you think that the stuff about “Fallen Angel” was ridiculous… check out, for example, the thread about Princess Di turning up in X-Statix. One poster — in as friendly and unassuming a way as possible — gently pointed out that he really likes X-Statix… and people just began to insult him left and right. They didn’t debate him; they insulted him. One poster even said he had “no place being on the board,” apparently for no other reason than that he has a differing opinion.
The John Byrne Message Board: the most fascist comic book fan site on the internet! 🙂
I haven’t read the book yet, but I think Bete Noire sounds a lot more realistic than many comic book towns. As much as I love them, names like Gateway City and Keystone City seem to point to the obvious fact that a superhero lives there.
Personally, my favorite town names are probably the quaint little names from the frequent trips I used to take to Long Beach Island, New Jersey. These included Ship Bottom, Loveladies and Surf City. Come to think of it, those names all remind me of another town in the DCU. Happy Harbor, Rhode Island, former hangout of Hourman, Young Justice and the original Justice League of America.
Hmmm. I live near a town called “Sweet Lips.” Though most of the interesting town names here arise through Southern mispronunciation — like the town of “Trenton,” with a silent “t” in the middle, or “Milan,” pronounced “My-lan.”
I loved the name Bete Noir. I think this city has a chance to become as much a character as Astro City, Gotham, Metropolis or Denny O’Neil’s Hub City.
Also in Louisiana are the towns of Waterproof, Pumpkin Center, and Baptist. The last two are near each other and if you drive by them on interstate 10, you will see a sign proclaiming “Baptist Pumpkin Center.”
Don’t forget the amazing town of Cementville Indiana!!!
I once stopped for gas at a Shell station in Tickfaw, Louisiana — which (probably not coincidentally) had the foulest men’s room I’ve ever seen. (And I’m sure there are some wonderful people who live in Tickfaw, but what a name for a town!)
As far as stupid city names go, there’s always Boca Raton, Florida.
Hmmm. I live near a town called “Sweet Lips.” Though most of the interesting town names here arise through Southern mispronunciation — like the town of “Trenton,” with a silent “t” in the middle, or “Milan,” pronounced “My-lan.”
Jason,
I know what you mean.
We’ve lived in West TN for five years now, and I still have to correct my wife on the pronunciation of Milan.
And we’re from Missouri with such wonderful places as “Versales” (spelled Versailles).
-Joe
If you want a whole bunch of “interesting” real place names, but assigned fictitious meanings, go see Douglas Adams and John Lloyd’s The Meaning of Liff or their later volume – The Deeper Meaning of Liff.
Bete Noir sounds as good as any place (and better than many) to set Fallen Angel. I’m looking forward to reading the first issue when my box of comics arrive at the end of the month.
Neil
Well, while we’re throwing out towns, there’s a small town in Georgia (and I mean really small) called “Between.” You can literally be in Between.
Bobby
The Travel Channel website has a nice write-up of Gary Gladstone’s book “Passing Gas: And Other Towns Along the American Highway,” which is all about oddly-named US towns.
http://www.jsonline.com/dd/destnat/may03/138131.asp
I’m putting Gladstone’s book on my Amazon wish list. 🙂
I just went over to the JB boards, WOW, what a scary place. JB was the one to imediatly jump on the poster and ask for a thread lockdown. Byrne has “issues”. Get it ??? 🙂
What I found interesting was that Bete Noir is very much an expression in English, as I found when I looked it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2000/01/03.html
It wasn’t one I was familiar with, but unlike “Troll X” I at least realized it had to have deeper meaning than simply “Black Beast”.
I live in Washington State, and one of my favorite books as a kid was a Washington State place names book. In it I learned that some town names had the oddest origins. There is a town not far from here named Enumclaw, which apparently translates to “Place of Evil Spirits”. So “Black Beast” is nothing.
The route I drove to get to college went by Rural, Indiana, which really says it all.
Hey, as long as Peter’s naming towns after Bryan Ferry albums, I approve.
I’m a big fan of Radium Springs, Georgia, myself. Don’t drink the water!
–Grant
I used to live in rural Northern Nevada, where they have a tradition of decorating the sides of their mountains with giant letters representing the first letter of various town names. This wasn’t so bad where I lived, in Winnemucca, since each and every day we were greeted with a giant “W” on our mountain. However, I felt sorry for the denizens of Battle Mountain, about an hour away, since they looked up every day at a giant “BM.” That’s right–it’s like someone took a huge dump on their mountain!
Speaking of the Byrne board, it happens to be the only other comics creator’s board that I tend to read semi-regularly and post at on occasion. I feel I’ve managed to get away with more off-topic irreverence than most, perhaps because I balance it with an honest appreciation for some of his work, or perhaps because I’m just not enough of a regular for him to bother getting mad at. I will say that it’s an attractive site, many of the posters have clever things to say, and JB will respond amazingly quickly to legitimate queries about his work. Just don’t try getting into a debate with the man, because it’s a debate YOU CANNOT WIN! (Or, to quoth Paul Simon, “A man hears what he wants to hear, and he disregards the rest.”)
Man, I’m only an hour and a half away from Climax, NC. Road trip this weekend!
How about Climax, Saskatchewan? Granted, I’ve never been there, but I have a friend who used to live there.
Apparently, there’s the usual “Thanks for coming!” sign when you leave the town.
Dumb town names just don’t happen in America, I’m afraid.
Jago, native of Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
Not a place name per se, but my city of Ottawa does have one interesting juxtaposition of names.
Hemlock Road which runs alongside a cemetery. (Beechwood Cemetery to be exact.)
I’m NOT making this UP, you know!
Milan, Michigan is pronounced My-lan.
Apparently, there are not too many Italians in that neighborhood.
The Byrne message board has been plagued from time to time with people who either just want to rampantly flame Byrne and his fans, or who want to use it as a general discussion forum. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that such things be strongly discouraged.
They’ve always treated me okay, though.
I’m not sure what I think of Fallen Angel yet. But then, it’s only one issue, so that’s not too surprising.
bete noire \bet-NWAHR\, noun:
Something or someone especially hated or dreaded; a bugbear.
Even more regrettable, as far as Dame Edna is concerned, is the presence of her old bete noire, the extravagantly disgusting Sir Les Patterson.
–“The Dame’s New Man,” Daily Telegraph, April 18, 1998
His reputation as a reformer may prove distasteful to most members of Parliament, but Kiriyenko is too obscure a figure to be a bete noire like his mentor.
–“Yeltsin Names Neophyte, 35, as Prime Minister,” New York Times, March 28, 1998
[S]peech making became her bete noire.
–“Uh, Um, It’s Time for a Speech,” Newsday, November 12, 1994
B
By the way I loved the book. And as a fan of Buffy\Angel I will attest to the fact that this book is not a rip off of the Josh Whedon property.
Regards:
WSJ3
I just finished talking with a guy in Endswell, New York… And yes, I am happy to report that all is well there. 🙂
Having grown up in North Carolina, I know that Climax, NC is not too far from Horneytown, NC.
I would also like to know what the bad blood between John Byrne and Peter David is? I also think that Bete Noir is a cool name for a city
Fallen Angel being Creator Owned doesn’t necessarily make it non-DCU…Sovereign 7 for instance was both DCU and creator owned…there’s been one or two others that have done that as well…
So that’s what I think of when I hear Bete Noir. I half expect it to be a part of the vast New Orleans metro area where law and order don’t quite reach. 🙂
Uhm, isn’t that what PAD has said it is?
Someday someone will write about all the weird and unusual things that ironically go on in NORMAL, IL.
“Or, if you want something simple, how about the town of Bill in Wyoming?”
Or How about the town of George in Washington or the town Joe in Montana?
John Byrne has an ego the size of… well, Ego the living planet. The Gods honest truth of the matter is that the only thing he has ever written that I’ve read thats note worthy in the slightest is his run on the Fantastic Four.
His Superman? Mediocre.
His Hulk? Mediocre.
His Namor? Less than Medicore.
His X-Men? Pathetic.
The man should have stuck to drawing comics only.
And for you Arrowsmith fans, there is an intersection here in Tacoma WA where Stevens Street turns into Tyler Street.