FNSM #10 wraps up the three part Uncle Ben Returns storyline, while X-Factor finishes out its Civil War crossover.
Whad’ja think?
PAD
FNSM #10 wraps up the three part Uncle Ben Returns storyline, while X-Factor finishes out its Civil War crossover.
Whad’ja think?
PAD
• 
I’m sold on the Burgler theory now. How he looks like Ben.. no idea. But fitting he would go to that grave to see the man he killed. Don’t know if the Chameleon would know where to go (but the good at blending in line would go to him)
I just need to go reread the past few issues again.
Eric
The Burgler died in ASM200. And how the hëll would HE know TOTEM-Spider-Man was from 2211?
Don’t know if this will get viewed or get to the right person, but I almost quit X-Factor because I totally missed it on the rack. The C. War cover that had Quick Silver’s arm was terrible, and the new one wasn’t much better. I know the powers that be think they need to make 1/2 the cover point out it’s a crossover so it’s not missed, but for those of us getting the book as usual it could be missed as well. I went back the next week and bought a copy but if it had sold out I was going to be done.
I really liked X-Factor, and more or less enjoyed FNS.
I have enjoyed the return of the X-Factor characters thoroughly. It’s still got that trademark humor, but a new atmosphere. Great stuff!
FNS feels a little uneven, but I think that is due to an apparent effort to have it’s own stories-while dealing with the issues going on in the rest of the Marvel world right now. I felt the latest issue laid some intriguing ground work for future issues, and am looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.
Ah, but this might be the burgler from the alternate timeline. Hobgoblin may have brought him too as a backup plan.
Friendly may be the worst you’ve ever written.
Went back and reread.. Peter didn’t stop the Burgler in the timeline where Ben lived and May died.
Granted, the him looking like Ben blows this theory.
Two sides talking about two different things is entirely realistic. Almost every major political debate is like that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a debate about gay marriage where both sides were talking about the same thing.
Except in that case, both sides are talking about whether gay marriages should be allowed.
To use the analogy, the CW sides have one arguing whether homosexuals can get married, while the other is that homosexuals have to be registered with the government for existing.
Here’s what we’ve all been missing, the secret that PAD alluded to:
The Ben Parker presented here is Keyser Soze.
‘Nuff said.
So we’re three days in, and no one’s really sure about the Ben Parker scene.
One of the problems with the scene is how Wieringo frames the last set of panels. If you don’t notice the cap (good catch, SlashKaBob), one might think that the Ben left in the alley is merely drunk and passed out, not dead. I’d rather have seen a high shot of the body in the alley, but that’s nitpicking.
We’re left with three conclusions, from everything I’ve read: Killer Ben is either Alternate Universe 2 Ben, Dr. Nyven (Hobgoblin 2112’s boyfriend), or some other character like the Chameleon. I’m discounting the third conclusion out of the thought that it’s really weak to sneak that in (though we did get a headline of “GREEN GOBLIN IS NORMAN OSBORN” in the previous issue). If that was the answer, we’d need another visual clue, and we don’t get one.
The Dr. Nyven thing is possible, but for that to happen, Hobgoblin’s Retcon bombs would prove to be somewhat ineffective, and I doubt that’s what PAD is going for, either. Although, if that is the case, we now have a way of bringing her back if we want to.
So we’re left with the conclusion that this is Alt Universe 2 Ben, one that differs strongly from the Alt Universe 1 Ben we’ve followed throughout the last 4 issues. And I’ve already noted my objection to that- I don’t want to read any story where Ben Parker is a killer.
Either way, we’re left with a random killing at the end by a character wearing the face of one of the key figures in the Spider-Man saga. That’s not a good ending.
“Someone” got it. The first one to do so. “Uncle Ben” specifically addresses him as Spider-Man from 2211, but there’s no way he could possibly have known that’s where he came from.
PAD
But that doesn’t tell us who he is; that just tells us who he’s not. It could be alt-Ben Reilly, or (more likely) it’s someone from the 2211 era who has the ability to look like Ben (he mentioned he blended in; wonder if the “Bad Wolf” grafitti meant anything?).
I don’t think I’ve ever written this much about one story I didn’t like. Weird. I’ve been reading comics for 30 years, and this one just resonated badly, PAD. I’m really emotionally angry, almost irrationally so, and I don’t know why. I’m really sorry about it, because I take no joy from complaining about it. It’s just under my skin. Sorry about that, really.
Think I’ll catch up on X-Factor next. That’ll put me in a better mood. 🙂
wonder if the “Bad Wolf” grafitti meant anything
That PAD really likes Dr. Who? 🙂
“Regarding X-Factor. I certainly hope Layla is pulling Madrox’s chain. What is there — 25 years difference in their ages? If she’s not, Madrox should be locked up now before he has a chance to commit the crime.”
Huh? More like 10-15 years. Just how old do you think Madrox is? But even if you were right, it would hardly be a crime to marry her.
Not sure if ages are explicitly stated anywhere, but I’m figuring Layla at about 10, and Madrox in his 30s.
It might be legal later on, but to marry someone you knew when they were a preteen, and you were significantly older, is, in my book, perverse. True, it’s not a legal crime. But my opinion of anyone who does it isn’t high. It’s different when you didn’t know them, as the image of them as a child wouldn’t be stuck in your mind.
Didn’t pick up FNSM yet, but X-Factor’s resolution has me ask one question: Madrox got the Astonishing team to clear out, but what’s to stop the New Avengers or even Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver? I’d assume Spider-Man still wants to beat Pietro up…..The “We’ll tell about Wanda!” threat?
Didn’t pick up FNSM yet, but X-Factor’s resolution has me ask one question: Madrox got the Astonishing team to clear out, but what’s to stop the New Avengers or even Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver? I’d assume Spider-Man still wants to beat Pietro up…..The “We’ll tell about Wanda!” threat?
“Not sure if ages are explicitly stated anywhere, but I’m figuring Layla at about 10, and Madrox in his 30s.”
I think Layla is older than that, like 14, and I believe Madrox is only in his mid-20s or so. Care to settle this, Peter?
“It might be legal later on, but to marry someone you knew when they were a preteen, and you were significantly older, is, in my book, perverse.”
That seems like an odd judgment to make, but okay.
I’ll second the opinion that Layla is closer to 13 or 14. She’s certainly drawn older than 10, and the character is far too sophisticated to be any younger than 13.
On that note, mentally and maturity wise she’s far beyond her physical age, and PAD has always written Jamie as immature for his age (which is around 25-27). I would believe some romantic sparks in a decade or so.
I am still not getting it. I am not getting what has happened, only that I was completely wrong and that one Ben indeed killed the other one.
Not only don`t I get who killed whom but more importantly, why and what does it matter?
At least I have the peace of mind to know that I am not too stupid to get it because, as I could see, the vast majority of the other readers don`t get it as well.
This is easily one of the worst comic stories I have read for a very long time, which is a shame because until the last issue, I found the story pretty intriguing.
The common consensus among other people I know that have read the issue seems to be The Chameleon…but that doesn’t explain how “Ben” knew that Spider-Man was from 2211. So…what are the chances of there being an alternate Hobgoblin 2211? One that has shapeshifting or holographic technology good enough to look like Uncle Ben?
Or, a little more fully developed, what if Spider-Man 2211’s attempt to fix the “retcon bombing” of his daughter led to an alternate version of her killing Uncle Ben and impersonating him just to get close enough to kill “future Spidey”? You know, ’cause fixing a paradox to create another one is kinda cool.
I’d also be willing to accept the “2nd alternate Ben” theory…or the “Dr. Nyven” theory…
I have to admit I’m not quite “getting” it either, but that’s half the fun of stuff like this: it’s setting up future storylines. I don’t want everything explained to me just yet–I assume (and we all know what happens when I do that) that PAD still has some Unca Ben elements up his sleeve and we’ll see more of his storyline later on. Until then I’m content to scratch my head, go “huh?”, and wait for the next few issues. It’s a puzzlement, a puzzlement indeed, but PAD seems to have a plan for where it’s going and I’m intrigued enough to want to find out. Having everything spelled out for me takes the fun and suspense out of it.
I reread FNSM last night and reread the posts concerning the dialogue. I too picked up on the “blend” in and the “of 2211” parts and concluded that it’s Chamelon 2211. I’d rather it be an alternate reality Ben, but that’s my guess.
Are you aware that PAD wrote the first X-Factor book that you are so fond of? He left after issue #89- one of the editorial requests that Peter did not agree with was the death of Multiple Man. The Jamie he writes now is very consistent with the Jamie he wrote back then- he has just had more time to explore the character.
Yes, I know he wrote it. If this MM is the same just more examined, I’ll write it up to me not remembering very well.
Well, if Spider-man can survive a HORRIBLE plot twist like Gwen Stacy having sex with Norman Osborn, then it can survive a horrible “EVIL” Uncle Ben plot twist.
“Well, if Spider-man can survive a HORRIBLE plot twist like Gwen Stacy having sex with Norman Osborn”
Ever take a look at post-Sins Past circ #s on ASM? The book lost a LOT of readers from that stunt.
Ah well. Finished catching up with X-Factor last night. That’s a fine comic. Great writing, good art, love the colors.
I find it a bit incredulous that people would have such a extreme reaction to this story, it doesn’t reflect badly on Ben at all, because it isn’t Ben – not the Ben we know at least. So what’s the problem?
I also saw straight away that the ending was unclear on which Ben it was who shot Spidey 2211; that’s what stories do, set up future stories to explore the ramifications and set up a bitof a mystery. What’s wrong with that?! Do we need everything spelt out to us nowadays??!
I realised that the man in the alley was another Ben straight away, so I wonder why others didn’t? I think some people are reading their comics too fast! The only thing I din’t quite get was……I thought it was a visual clue that it must have been the Ben from the alley that did the murder and not nice Ben because nice Ben wasn’t wearing a hat when they met in the alley – but without checking again what confused me was that it was a completely different hat at the end of the issue!
Mistake on Mike’s part or is there a 3rd Ben?!
Please tell peter!
what’s to stop . . . Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver?
You mean other than him being dead?
ON ANOTHER TOPIC ENTIRELY, PAD:
In the latest Who’s Who In the DCU column at Comic Nexus/Inside Pulse, the question was posed what were DC’s 5 worst mistakes in the past 10 years.
All of them involve DC screwing you.
http://comicsnexus.insidepulse.com/articles/50002
(1) Axeing YJ, 2) Forcing you off Aquaman 3) Axing SGirl 4) The New SGirl 5) Axing Fallen Angel (and a bonus 6 of Dissing SloBo).
what’s to stop . . . Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver?
You mean other than him being dead?
Hawkeye lives, dammit! He’s just merely resting.
1I loved the twisted ending in Spidy. I’ve got to admit, I didn’t see that one coming. I loved Maddrox’s stand on X-Factor. Peter has made him a brave and complexe character and made a sound aurgument against hero registration.
>Jamie as immature for his age (which is around 25-27)
There have been several references in the Marvel Universe that approximately ten years have passed since its creation. If true, then given the fact that madrox first appeared relatively early on (over thirty real years ago) then one can reasonably extrapolate that he’s at least seven or eight years older than he was back then. Question being how old did he seem to be when first confronting the FF?
I think one of the problems here is that, while there used to be two, maybe three Spidey strips, there are now at least five, and at least two if not three different universes for them to be set in. This makes keeping track of subtle plot elements more complicated.
There have been several references in the Marvel Universe that approximately ten years have passed since its creation.
How recently, though? I remember references to it having been ten years since the FF was founded back in the mid-to-late ’80s. It’s possible that they haven’t slid the scale any further than that (I remember when Chris Claremont showed Kitty Pryde’s 15th birthday in “Excalibur” several years after he’d established her as being 15 in “X-Men”, to give one example); I’m just curious what they’re claiming nowadays.
“I’m just curious what they’re claiming nowadays.”
It depends on the writer, and the individual characters. Young Avengers apparently claims that it’s been 16 years since the Kree-Skrull War (when Hulkling was conceived… although, come to think of it, Kree-Skrull hybrids could age differently than humans). Runaways had a now-adult Julie Powers, which means it’s been at least seven years since Power Pack for her (figuring she was about 11 or so in that series). And geez, how old is Kitty Pryde now? She was like 13 when she first appeared, and now she’s old enough to have dated Pete Wisdom and been an agent of SHIELD. Then there’s Franklin Richards, who never ages.
So, yeah, best not to dwell on the time thing too much when it comes to the Marvel Universe. I just tend to think of it has having been roughly 15 years since FF #1, and leave it at that.
Two things with Franklin I’m making sure to always remember:
1. He doesn’t let himself age.
2. He doesn’t let anyone else notice that he isn’t aging “properly” compared to the likes of Mr. Parker, Power Pack or Kitty Pryde…
Keep these two things in mind, and all will be reasonably well in continuity matters.
I told my wife about retcon bombs.
(Kate’s not a comics fan, but, having been married to me for some years, she’s familiar with a lot of the furniture.)
As soon as i said the words “retcon bomb”, Kate announced that you were a Bad Man.
Dan Slott came up with some sort of retcon gun/thingy in the oversized 100th issue of She-Hulk. I think it’s a case of “great minds.”
X-Factor #9 was great!! I really like the overall feel/atmosphere of the book and the characters are great. I can’t wait to see how the rivalry between Layla and Quicksilver develops!
I also noticed that there was a nice Layla Miller profile in the latest Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (issue #7). I’m curious if the writers such as yourself get consulted on the OHOTMU profiles at all, Mr. David?
Question being how old did he seem to be when first confronting the FF?
He was in his late teens. After the professor took him in he went to live with Moira McTaggart, where he and Syrin, who was also in her late teens, lived together until their early 20’s, when the respectively split off into X-Factor and X-Force.
Friendly may be the worst you’ve ever written.
I must say, the reaction to this whole story is rather interesting. While I was upset and disappointed when I thought “nice Ben” murdered someone, I never thought it was a bad story. I have never liked Fallen Angel but I would never say it was poorly written. I definitely did not like “Sins of the Father” by JMS but have kept reading Amazing Spidey.
While it is possible one story line could cause me to never read PAD again, it would have to be really out there, and this ain’t it. When you read an author for more than 15 years, you tend to average it out. I find the current X-Factor is some of his best work. FNS has not been quite as good as my other favorite, Spidey 2099, but it has also been interesting. And this story line has been refreshingly interesting. I am disappointed that we are moving to something else (at least as the major focus — I am sure there are elements of this that will obviously continue).
Bottom line, I may have hated the ending (as I originally understood it), but I was going to be back next month to find out what was going on. I would hope the rest of you do the same and at least see where this is headed.
Iowa Jim
“Someone” got it. The first one to do so. “Uncle Ben” specifically addresses him as Spider-Man from 2211, but there’s no way he could possibly have known that’s where he came from.
PAD,
I did notice that as well in my second reading, but it did not stand out as much to me. For some reason, I thought he *did* know.
This is the “problem” with a monthly title. I think this would have stood out if I had read all of the issues in one sitting. But my mind simply filled in the blank thinking the Hobgoblin of 2211 told him this info.
Now that I think about it, I don’t know that Ben every met Spidey 2211 until the graveyard scene, so the clue was in there, and it was a good one. But it was not perhaps as obvious to some of us who buy the monthly and don’t wait for the trade version.
Iowa Jim
PAD,
As much as I love your work PAD, I think I’m going to have to drop FNSM. Partly for budget reasons, but I just can’t seem to get into it. I’m not a big fan of solo books to begin with (Linda Danvers/Supergirl and Captain
Marvel being the exception), but with Spider-Man, I think maybe your a little too shackled in what you can do with him and the main supporting cast. I mean, it’s not like you can have Mary Jane have an affair with Moondragon on a whim.
I still love X-Factor, and it’s my favorite title right now. Keep up the good work!
“Dan Slott came up with some sort of retcon gun/thingy in the oversized 100th issue of She-Hulk. I think it’s a case of “great minds.”
Well, considering that I first introduced retcon bombs back in “Spider-Man 2099 Meets Spider-Man”, a one shot published more than a decade ago–which was not only well before She-Hulk #100, but well before Dan Slott was writing comics–I have to think it was one great mind thinking like another great mind already had been.
PAD
Well, considering that I first introduced retcon bombs back in “Spider-Man 2099 Meets Spider-Man”, a one shot published more than a decade ago–which was not only well before She-Hulk #100, but well before Dan Slott was writing comics–I have to think it was one great mind thinking like another great mind already had been.
Darn. I might have remembered that if I’d known what “retcon” was at the time. Boo on me.
First off: very good issues! I especially enjoyed X-Factor – the ” ‘Cause we eventually get married” had me laughing out loud! I can’t say how shocked I would have been by the end of FN,as I had that spoiled for me; but we do have an interesting mystery. I can say that it seemed pretty obvious to me that this might not really be Uncle Ben doing the killing. OTOH, while I did notice the “Spider-Man of 2211” incongruity, I was dumb enough to briefly wonder if it was a mistake; well, I certainly know better now 😉
Having now read this thread, learning about the questions, and looking back at the last two issues, I think I may have found the dangling plot thread from issue #9. (I remember wondering about it at the time; took a couple of flip-throughs today to remind me today, though. Oddly, as it is a big question…) Does it involve “her… ‘new friends'”?
I did also wonder if it could have been the Chameleon… who may not be as dead as FNS-M #10 letter-writer Joel Roddin thinks. Apparently he missed the little bit on page 10 of Spectacular Spider-Man #250, in the establishing panel of the emergency room…
All this missed clue stuff reminds me of Incredible Hulk #333. Is it really possible that that many people didn’t notice that General Ross’ body wasn’t in the suddenly “empty gurney”? (The editors later remarked that no one wrote in about it.) If my brother and I had known at the time, WE probably would have written in to point it out! It’s funny how we can all sometimes miss these things…
I think my favorite moment from X-Factor was when Layla told Jamie to buy a hat and scarf… and he actually does it! I think other characters would have just said, “Yeah, whatever,” and forgotten about it.
Jamie and Layla are actually a good dynamic. One can’t make decisions for himself and the other likes to guide people toward the correct path. I especially like how Layla’s abilities do not preclude free will. She didn’t tell Jamie what to think, and did not even tell him what to do. She just pointed him in a direction and he chose to go there. (This is also evident in her attempt to “hire” a goon to mess with Quicksilver. Things didn’t go according to plan then, either.)
You know, after seeing some Callero black and whites I gotta say, I dig his work. I think it’s the color I have a problem with. I get the tone of the book, I do, but the color is just so flat and dreary and destroys any sense of depth.
Scott,
I’m not sure I would be willing to agree with the statement that Layla’s abilities do not preclude Free Will. It looks to me like Layla’s abilities work kinda like those elaborate mechanical “mousetrap” devices that some people build or one of those massive domino setups. Remove the bath handles –> cause a flood –> floor collapse –> assassin electrocuted.
From the POV of people who can’t see things the way Layla can, they still have their free will. However, from Layla’s POV if she takes Apparently-Insignificant-Action A, then it’s dead certain the Serendipitous(sp?)-Result Z will take place. The fact that the people invovled can’t see the forces controlling their actions doesn’t make them any more free than any individual domino in one of those elaborate set-ups.
This is all just my conclusions based on what I’ve seen so far, but I think the Layla KNEW that Maddrox would buy that hat & scarf and go to that corner if she told him to. I think she KNEW that he’d meet that meta and decide to help him because, being Maddrox, he couldn’t do anything else in that situation. What I’m trying to say is that the way I see the situation is that Layla appears to KNOW how most of the world will react to various sets of circumstances and she KNOWS how to change things to bring about those circumstances. From her POV, she and Pietro & Wanda (apparently) may be the ONLY people on Earth with free will, because everybody else’s actions are pre-defined.
David,
I like the mousetrap analogy, but I think in Layla’s case it’s more like a game of dominoes. She sets them up, but she doesn’t have the power to knock them down. She has to persuade other people to do that. And that’s the x-factor.
I don’t think she always knows what’s going to happen. More like she knows what needs to happen, what is extremely likely to happen. When she tried to stop Quicksilver in issue 8, she failed. If she knew she was going to fail, why would she have tried? Fact is, she can’t control everything and she doesn’t know everything. But she does know “stuff.”
Scott,
I suspect the truth is somewhere between our stated positions. Your discription of Layla’s knowing what needs to happen for things to “go the right way” does match my memory of her explanation to Maddrox now that I think about it. However, I’m sure that Layla does have the ability to “knock down the dominos.” Think of the bathtub/electrocution incident. She set up events so that the assassin would walk right into a deathtrap.
As to Quicksilver, she didn’t succeed in her plans to kill him, but did you notice how much that shocked her? She was absolutely certain that knocking that guy on the head would set a chain of events in motion that would end in Quicksilver’s death. The only thing that saved QS was his connection to his sister. Something about this made him beyond Layla’s abiltiy to perfectly predict. He didn’t do what she thought he would do, and evaded her trap.
This is why I said that the only other people that might have free will from Layla’s POV could be Pietro and Wanda…because they’re the ones who she can’t predict.
Just my two cents.