It’s the official comments thread for “Hulk #77,” out this week.
Whad’ja think?
144 comments on “Okay…you know you want it. Here it is…”
A. Shark:
>As a spokesmen for SAAPIM (Sharks Against Aggressive Portrayal in Media), I don’t think I have to tell you, Mr. David, how insulted and outraged we are at your newest comic.
>Why, if I were half the shark as the one portrayed in your comic…
>What? What? Why is everyone laughing?
We’re not laughing. That joke bites. :p
~fin~
Fred
Cool — so a feature character down the line is Hammerhead, then?
Sorry. Feel free to beat me and I’ll go home to nurse my wounds…
TWL
I really enjoyed the issue, both the writing and the artwork. And I certainly like where it’s going – when I saw the two-headed creature, I thought “Wow, is this Monster Island?” (I mainly know it from Godzilla films rather than Marvel comics, but the concept is still cool.)
One question – like many people (I suspect), I’ve only read a few issues of Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?
John C. Kirk:
>One question – like many people (I suspect), I’ve only read a few issues of Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?
Nope. Most of the issues that have been presented in PAD’s absence had little to nothing to do with the Hulk. The stuff before Jones had a few moments, but was otherwise very forgettable. Jones’ writing had no resemblence to the Marvel monster or his universe.
Fred
Jim in Iowa,
I wasn’t referring to you in particular, but nevertheless, you’re correct. There was nothing at all obsessive in your previous post, and if you were merely criticizing the DELIVERY of the story, then I can see where you’re coming from.
But…”5 times”? Uhm…I really am doing my best not to imply anything here, (I’ve been in enough ‘net flame wars over the years to be emotionally exhausted to the point of a coma), but I got Peter David’s (and Lee Weeks’s) intention when I read that particular sequence for the first time.
I have the issue right in front of me here, and I’m breaking the first sequence down as I’m writing this: Open on underwater scene. Shark passes directly above us (the readers), and glides away from view. Mysterious burst of red is seen in the distance. Shark returns, seemingly coming right for us. Suddenly, shark careens to the right. We finally see that the shark’s lower half has been savagely torn away. Upper half of shark crashes into the ocean bottom. The recognizable silhoutte of the Hulk appears in view. Next is the big “splash” image, revealing the Hulk holding the shark’s lower half in his hand.
How, exactly, was this scene delivered in an unclear manner?
John C. Kirk,
“One question – like many people (I suspect) I’ve only read a few issues of the Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?”
Well, here are some pretty significant developments that happened in the meantime:
1.) During Joe Casey’s run (#468-474) it was revealed that the Abomination – not exposure to Bruce/the Hulk’s radiation – killed Betty
2.) Casey’s brief run also portrayed possibly the brightest, most self-assured, strongest and most confident Bruce Banner ever seen
3.) John Byrne’s relaunch was just short of terrible, but there was a very cool Hulk/Wolverine throwdown in issue #8
4.) Paul Jenkins’ run was far from great, but his apex was Hulk #25, where the Hulk not only proved his physical superiority by memorably knocking The Abomination’s eye out
5.) But hit him harder than he ever could with his fists by making The Abomination, Emil Blonsky, realize that for all his power he had lost the love of his life, Nadia Blonsky
6.) During the much-maligned Bruce Jones run, the Hulk was guided by a “Mister Blue”, who turned out to be…..Betty, somehow alive! Or is it?
7.) Bruce Banner, while believing Betty to be dead, slept with Nadia Blonsky. When The abomnation found out, he wasn’t too happy.
8.) The Leader turned out to be the one “pulling the strings” during Jones’ run, and…well, I’ll let someone else describe his appearance.
9.) The Absorbing Man was discovered to have the ability to take over the minds of people in close proximity.
10.) In Jones’ final issue, Nadia is accidentally killed. The Hulk takes his rage out on Doc Samson – who he holds responsible – nearly killing him before Betty stops him. A grief-stricken Betty, who had grown close to Nadia and is traumatized by the incredible beating Samson took, yells at the Hulk/Bruce to get out of all their lives, screaming that he destroys everyone and everything he comes in contact with. The Hulk/Bruce leaps away, visibly shaken and crying over the death of Nadia, what he’s done to one of his closest allies and Betty’s hatred of him at that moment.
So there HAVE been some things of note in the intervening years of PAD’s run on the title, and it will be interesting to see how PAD will address these events/circumstances, if he indeed gets another long-term shot at the character.
As I understand it from Tony Isabella’s blogs, columns and posts to racmu, (those interested can search out the particulars on their own) Mr. Mantlo was the victim of an (automobile?) accident a few years ago- the effects of which have robbed him of much of his capacity for writing, communicating or much in the way of memory, poor soul.
Actually, a car struck him while he was rollerblading. He spent a year in a coma and is currently institutionalized. His condition is similar to the lead character in “Memento”–he has trouble forming short-term memories.
Well, I find all this decompression VS “old school” comics storytelling intersting. I’m about sick of the word “decompressed” as much as I am “disassembled” (partly because it never looks like it’s spelled right when type it) and “lo-carb.”
In any case, since many a creator and editor have denied a company-wide mandate, then I can only assume it’s just a trend that writers are diving into because it really seems like readers are responding to it.
The thing is, not every story is well suited to this sort of storytelling. The problem is I feel that some writers are trying to shoe-horn stories that would work at one issue into six. Then it all becomes a pacing problem. You get those issues that feel like “nothing happens” and it feels like the writer is reiterating the same points and there’s no sense of momentum.
Another problem is that a lot rests on the story to be GOOD. If I invest 6 months and $18 in one story it better be dámņ good. And far too often lately I’ve started to feel a bit jipped. My pull list is smaller now then it has been in years. Before, you could chalk your odd Uncanny X-men or Avengers story as just being bad and move on. But now you’ve spent so much money on it that there’s a lot more riding on it.
Now, Hulk surprised me. Just because it was so very different from what I expected PAD to write, but not in a bad way.
In my mind, I felt I got my money’s worth. It was the first issue of the story, and it actually did a lot in a few pages. Sure, I read it VERY quickly (well, except for the Shark bit where I was confused, but that was partly due to some sloppy reading on my part) but a lot actually happens.
It feels to be very much about tension and set-up. We see the Hulk’s raw power, we are reminded of the psychological aspect of who Banner/Hulk is and their relationship, and through the ever-growing monstrosity of the creatures Hulk fights we are lead to Monster Isle.
The bit at the end left me significantly intrigued – who were these people? Who let the blind man have the flame thrower? And who is that other Hulk?
Now, I AM hoping that in the next issue we get more words and story. And I’m betting we will, because I trust Peter to pace a story well. The bad thing about too much of today’s stories is that they don’t pick and choose their focus well. Far too often pages are spent in an exchange that could have been covered (and much more effectively) in a few panels and then not enough time is spent on something more crucial. It happens all the time. The problem with having all talking or all “epic, cinematic action” is that the effect can be lost. It’s all about contrast.
Now, if it doesn’t turn out like that I’ll complain with the rest of them. But it does seem to early to make that judgement yet.
A. Shark,
“As a spokesman for SAAPIM (Sharks Against Aggressive Portrayal in Media), I don’t think I have to tell you, Mr. David, how insulted and outraged we are at your newest comic. Why, if I were half the shark as the one portrayed in your comic…
What? What? Why is everyone laughing.”
Fred,
“We’re not laughing. That joke bites.”
While A. Shark’s attempt at humor was hardly hilarious it was good-natured, and someone who recently typed
“See, now you’ve done it..you actually made me type out bat-gas.”
is hardly in a position to tell someone else their humor “bites”.
Tim Lynch,
“Cool – so a feature character down the line is Hammerhead, then? Sorry. Feel free to beat me and I’ll go home to nurse my wounds…”
While there are times I would probably take you up on your offer, this is not one of them. That was actually amusing, Tim.
Hands up whos’ fed up with people not getting the bit with the shark?- (the ayes have it).
Very sad to read about Bill Mantlo, A great writer with much to contribute to the Marvel universe. I personally would put him up there with Mark Gruenwald, such a shame he isn’t remembered with the same fondness. I certainly wish Bill well.
On a different note: Hulk rematch against the Thunderbolts anybody? (the fact that it would have PAD writing Captain Marvel again aside).
The return of Rick Jones to the Hulk would be great. What ever happened to Janis?
Here is probably not the right place to put this but I will anyway, because it could be of interest to a lot of people. In the UK Panini are doing a comic called The Mighty world of Marvel. This is a reprint title which covers classic Marvel.
At present Hulk is being reprinted in recoloured form all the way from issue 117 and have presently reached 134. They look great and occasionally use the original covers recoloured. I don’t think these have been done in recoloured form before.
Other strips include Frank Millers DareDevil, Sterankos’ Nick Fury and Ditkos’ Doctor Strange.
I have to admit that I read that shark fight a couple of times to figure out what had happened. But I’m not convinced that it is a problem with the storytelling, or the art. I think there’s a tendency to skim read art – mainly because we’re used to the words doing all the storytelling for us. So when the pictures actually do start telling a story – rather than just looking pretty – we’re not necessarily conditioned to read them correctly.
I could be wrong though. Guess I’m going to have to go back and reread the pages again. 🙂
Looks like you missed the gaff there, Jerome. They really gilled you there!
However, I think I might be willing to give them both a fin to quit jawing…
Oh, I don’t mind the bites, Jerome. I’m not that shellfish. It appears that Fred had a pacific porpoise in poking fin at me.
Ahh, if only Peter had known when he wrote the Shark in to the story that it would be a bigger talking point than the Hulk himself
Ian
A. Shark:
>It appears that Fred had a pacific porpoise in poking fin at me.
Good to see that you aren’t being crabby halibut. *If that line didn’t hook you, than I’m sunk.*
Welcome back to the book that is you. Looking forward to seeing what you will do for the Green Goliath this year.
Ugh, why is everyone going on and on about this shark thing? What was so hard to understand? We see the shark swimming underwater, most likely in search of food since that pretty much all they do is eat and swimm. Shark is swimming away from us and then off in the distance there is some sort of commotion, looks like the shark just chewed up a fish. The shark is now swimming toward us, no wait he is falling to the ocean floor. What could possibly have happened to the most feared predator in the oceans? He met up to the most feared predator on the planet, the Hulk. So the shark attacked the Hulk and the Hulk ripped it in half and threw the bitey part away. What was so confusing to understand? If you actually take your time and read and look at everything that is going on and not skim through everything so quickly there really wouldn’t be a problem I think. I know we were all excited about PAD being back with the Hulk and we just want to devour the story and get to the end to see what happens but I think some of us have to slow way down and try and savour the issue because PAD is BACK! Who knows how long he will be here for, hopefully a long time, so lets try and enjoy it and not rush things 🙂
Loved the Weeks/Palmer Hulk(s). Loved the byplay between Classroom Bruce & the Hulk. Not sure where the storyline is going, but that’s part of the fun, is it not? Let’s put it this way: This is the first issue of IH I’ve picked up in a couple of years, but it won’t be the last.
I for one was not disappointed in the issue. I didn’t think it was the best comic I ever read, but certainly better than a lot of what’s out there. I don’t think I’m overstating things when I say that Mr. David shows why he’s considered by so many to be the definitive Hulk writer.
Thanks to all, by the way, for clearing up the Betty’s death question and what’s up with the Banner’s personalities since PAD left (and before he left… I have very few PAD issues after Onslaught). I’ve only read Hulk in back-issue form, and I haven’t picked up any since PAD’s departure, so I was curious.
The issue of “decompression” didn’t occur to me having read this. I took it for what it seems to have been – the first chapter in a longer arc. If things don’t pick up a little, then it might be time to cry foul over pacing issues. Heck, under many writers, this issue may have covered nothing other than Hulk’s fight with the shark, so let’s not take it for granted.
I’m intrigued about where this story is going, and what new developments and revelations will be made about Bruce Banner’s psyche. I wish you luck, PAD, and hope that this run will turn into something longer.
As much as I liked Bruce Jones’ (no relation) work on The Hulk, #77’s ending made me stand up and yell “AND?” Great return to the book!!!
But…”5 times”? Uhm…I really am doing my best not to imply anything here, (I’ve been in enough ‘net flame wars over the years to be emotionally exhausted to the point of a coma), but I got Peter David’s (and Lee Weeks’s) intention when I read that particular sequence for the first time.
Well, I do admit it was at the end of a long day, so I was tired. 🙂
I have the issue right in front of me here, and I’m breaking the first sequence down as I’m writing this: Open on underwater scene. Shark passes directly above us (the readers), and glides away from view. Mysterious burst of red is seen in the distance. Shark returns, seemingly coming right for us. Suddenly, shark careens to the right. We finally see that the shark’s lower half has been savagely torn away. Upper half of shark crashes into the ocean bottom. The recognizable silhoutte of the Hulk appears in view. Next is the big “splash” image, revealing the Hulk holding the shark’s lower half in his hand.
Two reasons it took 5 times:
1.) I did not see a “mysterious burst of red.” I saw a dark cloud. Did the Hulk just “jump/fall” into the water? It was unclear to me.
2.) I did not read the whole book far enough. I just went a few pages. I “got” what happened in that I saw the Hulk with half a shark. But the sequence in the comic didn’t make sense. You can get the picture of what must have happened, but the pictures (for me, at least) seemed to not follow what one would assumed happened. I was left unsure whether the Hulk ripped the shark in half, or if he found it already ripped in half. As you go farther in the story, it makes sense that he must have done it. But it is not completely clear at the start.
Didn’t ruin the comic for me, and I am fine with things being implied and not shown. But when the pictures leave open multiple possibilities, it is not as strong of a start as I would like.
Jim in Iowa
Hands up whos’ fed up with people not getting the bit with the shark?- (the ayes have it).
Hey, PAD asked what we thought. If I was the only one who missed it, I would chalk it up to my being a little slow. But when a significant minority (if not more) expressed some confusion, I think it is worth noting. Any good communicator would want to know if something was not clear. At the end of the day, PAD it was written and drawn just as he intended, and that is fine. But I would be shocked if he was upset that we brought it up. (And while it has come up a number of times, it has not been the major source of comments.)
Jim in Iowa
Ok, so now I am not clear. Got to slow down and proof my posts. Here is what I meant to say:
“At the end of the day, PAD may decide it was written and drawn just as he intended.”
Jim in Iowa
Glad you found that amusing, Jerome, but I think (as others have pointed out) that you missed the pun in Fred’s response as well. (That’s the only reason I jumped in — I try not to start pun cascades, but I’ll gladly participate.)
Ah well. Better luck next time … chum.
TWL
Chum.
Woot.
Okay, this is getting annoying.
The following is, verbatim, my script. This is what I wrote. This is what I intended. Any differences between what I wrote and what was on the page, don’t give me grief over them.
PAGE 1
PANEL A: The following panel sequential, until I indicate otherwise, are shot entirely from the same straight-on angle. We don
I’m on vacation and bought 3 copies (1 for myself and 2 as gifts for friends who might continue reading the book)at a comic book store here and the guy said to me “you must know something I don’t” Obviously he didn’t know so I had to enlighten him
PAD,
First, thanks for posting the script for the first few panels. I enjoy seeing what happens “behind the scenes.”
Second, while I didn’t get it (at least at first), I do appreciate your using pictures to tell the story and not just using dialog (as in your “Superman” example earlier). That is why I buy comics and not just novels. I appreciate the talent it takes to tell the story visually. I enjoy the variety it brings to how a story is told.
Finally, I aplogize if my comments in particular were annoying. If I had asked for feedback, I would want to know that this had been an issue, so I shared my thoughts. I don’t fault you or the artist, I was simply letting you know that I got confused.
I am here for the Hulk as long as you are writing it.
Jim in Iowa
PAD,
One comment: For some reason, my copy at least did not show “red.” It was more of a blackish or grey color. So I did not think of blood but of just the bottom of the ocean being stirred up. The end result can still be the same, but if I had seen red, I would have immediately thought of an attack versus just a disturbance.
As far as I know, I am not color blind, but given my political leanings, you might disagree. 🙂
Jim in Iowa
Actually, having the blood be blackish makes a lot of sense.
(Physics pedant mode ON)
Water absorbs red light preferentially, which is why by the time you’re 50-100 feet down it’s all shades of blue and green. (It’s also why a tank full of water will tend to look a little greenish if you look through it at something.)
Lots of sea creatures at depth look black, but if you bring them up to the surface it turns out some are red or pink. There was no evolutionary pressure to keep the reds from reproducing, so they did.
At any rate, at the depths we’re talking about anything red really WILL look black. If Weeks thought of that and chose accordingly, more power to him.
(Physics pedant mote OFF)
Of course, I got the point of the scene pretty quickly, so I’m perhaps not the best judge. 🙂
TWL
Actually, having the blood be blackish makes a lot of sense.
I agree, Tim. The “explosion” of blackish whatever clearly is not on the ocean floor, so it does make sense now. It just went over my head. A “blood red” color would probably have been out of place. I just never thought of it as blood for some reason. I just assumed it was a “disturbance” in the water. I just don’t like that I missed it because I am normally the one who gets it and can explain it to everyone else who doesn’t.
Jim in Iowa
I’ve never noticed Lee Weeks’ art before, but I thought this issue of Hulk was beautiful.
AND, the story (as written in your script) came across perfectly clearly to me. I was surprised to see the shark’s back end missing, and got a little shock and a little sadistic laugh out of seeing the hulk a couple panels later.
Cool stuff.
PAD,
Thank you for allowing such a forum for feedback to exist. It brings the reader much closer to the creative process and who would have thought something like this could exist when I was a kid reading comics for the first time?
I’m not going to comment on the first issue as it was just the first part of a continuing story. I will continue to read and participate from time to time.
Thanks,
MM
“At any rate, at the depths we’re talking about anything red really WILL look black”
Yeah, Tim, I know that. But since I felt my choices were (a) be scientifically accurate at the risk of confusing readers, (b) go with standard red so fans would say, “Oh…blood, or (c) show the Hulk grossly ripping the shark apart, I opted for (b). Considering that the coloring wound up being scientificallly accurate and some people are so bewildered over what happened that I actually had to post the dámņëd script, I’m going to say that my reservations were well founded and I wish it had been colored the way I specified.
PAD
Oh, that wasn’t intended as a criticism — just a comment for those who found the black confusing. I agree that it looked rather blackish in the finished art, but I think most people followed it just fine anyway.
(I wouldn’t have had an objection to red either, BTW — there are major science errors and then there are stretches to make a point, and this would clearly have been the latter.)
TWL
The funny thing for me is, I had no problem with the shark on pages 2-3. I actually had a brain fart with page one: I didn
“Oh, that wasn’t intended as a criticism — just a comment for those who found the black confusing.”
Nor was I taking it as criticism, but merely observation. The thing is, I usually try to take pains to get things right when portraying real-world aspects of things. So it’s ironic that this was an instance where I made a deliberate choice to have it be wrong to avoid confusion…and it wound up being right and, for some, confusing.
PAD
I thought the issue was a good set-up issue, the catch being I’m not a fan of set-up issues but I do understand their necessity. To this day I think Supergirl #1 is the best set-up issue I have ever read.
I am very excited for the rest of the story-line, and in general think the next year will be awesome.
PAD: I know the preoccupation here seems to be all about the shark, but I don’t think the various Internet forums accurately represent the majority of readers.
The only item that gave me pause, was learning that nothing of your previous run will be touched upon by you this year.
I understand the reasoning behind this but I just can’t let go of the fact that the Maestro may be alive and well in the present time now and this will not be resolved.
Ok, I’d love to see another Pantheon story, no way is their former leader dead!
Any idea when your new Marvel series will be revealed?
Thanks for a fun Hulk issue.
I enjoyed this issue for several reasons.
No drawn out plot lines or pages of dialogue only
with no action
The Hulk makes an appearance in his own book
Hulk Smashing (shark and squid)
Lee Weeks art
Monsters!!!!
The hope that we are seeing a Peter David run on the Hulk that will last for a while.
I enjoyed the Joe Casey run and liked some elements of Jones and Jenkins but overall felt disappointed with both.While I try to not Byrne bash too much his arc started of good then went to a whole Hulk Body /mind swap with Tyrannus thing that was soooo lame!!!!
Welcome back Peter and here is to a long run.
Any Cowboy Pete soon???
From the previews,Point Pleasant looks good (Dina meyer Yeah!!!),House M.d is great ,and am interested in your opinions on Lost and Alias
TTFN
I loved it PAD. Its good to have you back. I enjoyed the water breathing sci-fi element you added, I’m always impressed when this little creative twist is added to a story. The art was fabulous and I’m eager to get the next issue.
Best wishes and I look forward to supporting your Hulk run.
Well, I heard the script at Dragoncon, so I wasn’t confused at all by the shark. 🙂 You know when you hear a script, and you form the visuals in your head, and then the real thing doesn’t come up to your imagination?
This was a rare exception.
For the record, I have no problem with the pacing at all. With the advent of the Hulk through the water, it felt like a beginning of something, the restarting of the franchise almost as the rebirth/reinvention of the Hulk. I know it’s part of a five-issue arc, so I don’t expect anything to be resolved by the end of issue one.
The art was great. Did I mention that yet? As much as I’ve been frothing at the mouth over boring art in some books and downright bizarre in others, it was wonderful to see the work that can be done with the space to do it.
Looking forward to the rest – and answers to more questions.
This is the first Hulk comic I ever read. I’ve been a fan of your work since I “discovered” you a couple of years ago. I picked up Hulk 77 to see if it would be good.
Nice work! I’ll be around for 78
-Adam
Ps. Been reading Fallen Angel since the beginning. Great read!
RE: PAD’s return to “The Hulk”
As long as I get to keep my genitalia this time!!!!
• 
A. Shark:
>As a spokesmen for SAAPIM (Sharks Against Aggressive Portrayal in Media), I don’t think I have to tell you, Mr. David, how insulted and outraged we are at your newest comic.
>Why, if I were half the shark as the one portrayed in your comic…
>What? What? Why is everyone laughing?
We’re not laughing. That joke bites. :p
~fin~
Fred
Cool — so a feature character down the line is Hammerhead, then?
Sorry. Feel free to beat me and I’ll go home to nurse my wounds…
TWL
I really enjoyed the issue, both the writing and the artwork. And I certainly like where it’s going – when I saw the two-headed creature, I thought “Wow, is this Monster Island?” (I mainly know it from Godzilla films rather than Marvel comics, but the concept is still cool.)
One question – like many people (I suspect), I’ve only read a few issues of Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?
John C. Kirk:
>One question – like many people (I suspect), I’ve only read a few issues of Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?
Nope. Most of the issues that have been presented in PAD’s absence had little to nothing to do with the Hulk. The stuff before Jones had a few moments, but was otherwise very forgettable. Jones’ writing had no resemblence to the Marvel monster or his universe.
Fred
Jim in Iowa,
I wasn’t referring to you in particular, but nevertheless, you’re correct. There was nothing at all obsessive in your previous post, and if you were merely criticizing the DELIVERY of the story, then I can see where you’re coming from.
But…”5 times”? Uhm…I really am doing my best not to imply anything here, (I’ve been in enough ‘net flame wars over the years to be emotionally exhausted to the point of a coma), but I got Peter David’s (and Lee Weeks’s) intention when I read that particular sequence for the first time.
I have the issue right in front of me here, and I’m breaking the first sequence down as I’m writing this: Open on underwater scene. Shark passes directly above us (the readers), and glides away from view. Mysterious burst of red is seen in the distance. Shark returns, seemingly coming right for us. Suddenly, shark careens to the right. We finally see that the shark’s lower half has been savagely torn away. Upper half of shark crashes into the ocean bottom. The recognizable silhoutte of the Hulk appears in view. Next is the big “splash” image, revealing the Hulk holding the shark’s lower half in his hand.
How, exactly, was this scene delivered in an unclear manner?
John C. Kirk,
“One question – like many people (I suspect) I’ve only read a few issues of the Hulk since PAD finished his previous run on the title. Is there anything I/we need to know about what’s happened in the meantime?”
Well, here are some pretty significant developments that happened in the meantime:
1.) During Joe Casey’s run (#468-474) it was revealed that the Abomination – not exposure to Bruce/the Hulk’s radiation – killed Betty
2.) Casey’s brief run also portrayed possibly the brightest, most self-assured, strongest and most confident Bruce Banner ever seen
3.) John Byrne’s relaunch was just short of terrible, but there was a very cool Hulk/Wolverine throwdown in issue #8
4.) Paul Jenkins’ run was far from great, but his apex was Hulk #25, where the Hulk not only proved his physical superiority by memorably knocking The Abomination’s eye out
5.) But hit him harder than he ever could with his fists by making The Abomination, Emil Blonsky, realize that for all his power he had lost the love of his life, Nadia Blonsky
6.) During the much-maligned Bruce Jones run, the Hulk was guided by a “Mister Blue”, who turned out to be…..Betty, somehow alive! Or is it?
7.) Bruce Banner, while believing Betty to be dead, slept with Nadia Blonsky. When The abomnation found out, he wasn’t too happy.
8.) The Leader turned out to be the one “pulling the strings” during Jones’ run, and…well, I’ll let someone else describe his appearance.
9.) The Absorbing Man was discovered to have the ability to take over the minds of people in close proximity.
10.) In Jones’ final issue, Nadia is accidentally killed. The Hulk takes his rage out on Doc Samson – who he holds responsible – nearly killing him before Betty stops him. A grief-stricken Betty, who had grown close to Nadia and is traumatized by the incredible beating Samson took, yells at the Hulk/Bruce to get out of all their lives, screaming that he destroys everyone and everything he comes in contact with. The Hulk/Bruce leaps away, visibly shaken and crying over the death of Nadia, what he’s done to one of his closest allies and Betty’s hatred of him at that moment.
So there HAVE been some things of note in the intervening years of PAD’s run on the title, and it will be interesting to see how PAD will address these events/circumstances, if he indeed gets another long-term shot at the character.
As I understand it from Tony Isabella’s blogs, columns and posts to racmu, (those interested can search out the particulars on their own) Mr. Mantlo was the victim of an (automobile?) accident a few years ago- the effects of which have robbed him of much of his capacity for writing, communicating or much in the way of memory, poor soul.
Actually, a car struck him while he was rollerblading. He spent a year in a coma and is currently institutionalized. His condition is similar to the lead character in “Memento”–he has trouble forming short-term memories.
Check http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/Rom/comic/mantlo.shtml for more info.
~Gary
Well, I find all this decompression VS “old school” comics storytelling intersting. I’m about sick of the word “decompressed” as much as I am “disassembled” (partly because it never looks like it’s spelled right when type it) and “lo-carb.”
In any case, since many a creator and editor have denied a company-wide mandate, then I can only assume it’s just a trend that writers are diving into because it really seems like readers are responding to it.
The thing is, not every story is well suited to this sort of storytelling. The problem is I feel that some writers are trying to shoe-horn stories that would work at one issue into six. Then it all becomes a pacing problem. You get those issues that feel like “nothing happens” and it feels like the writer is reiterating the same points and there’s no sense of momentum.
Another problem is that a lot rests on the story to be GOOD. If I invest 6 months and $18 in one story it better be dámņ good. And far too often lately I’ve started to feel a bit jipped. My pull list is smaller now then it has been in years. Before, you could chalk your odd Uncanny X-men or Avengers story as just being bad and move on. But now you’ve spent so much money on it that there’s a lot more riding on it.
Now, Hulk surprised me. Just because it was so very different from what I expected PAD to write, but not in a bad way.
In my mind, I felt I got my money’s worth. It was the first issue of the story, and it actually did a lot in a few pages. Sure, I read it VERY quickly (well, except for the Shark bit where I was confused, but that was partly due to some sloppy reading on my part) but a lot actually happens.
It feels to be very much about tension and set-up. We see the Hulk’s raw power, we are reminded of the psychological aspect of who Banner/Hulk is and their relationship, and through the ever-growing monstrosity of the creatures Hulk fights we are lead to Monster Isle.
The bit at the end left me significantly intrigued – who were these people? Who let the blind man have the flame thrower? And who is that other Hulk?
Now, I AM hoping that in the next issue we get more words and story. And I’m betting we will, because I trust Peter to pace a story well. The bad thing about too much of today’s stories is that they don’t pick and choose their focus well. Far too often pages are spent in an exchange that could have been covered (and much more effectively) in a few panels and then not enough time is spent on something more crucial. It happens all the time. The problem with having all talking or all “epic, cinematic action” is that the effect can be lost. It’s all about contrast.
Now, if it doesn’t turn out like that I’ll complain with the rest of them. But it does seem to early to make that judgement yet.
A. Shark,
“As a spokesman for SAAPIM (Sharks Against Aggressive Portrayal in Media), I don’t think I have to tell you, Mr. David, how insulted and outraged we are at your newest comic. Why, if I were half the shark as the one portrayed in your comic…
What? What? Why is everyone laughing.”
Fred,
“We’re not laughing. That joke bites.”
While A. Shark’s attempt at humor was hardly hilarious it was good-natured, and someone who recently typed
“See, now you’ve done it..you actually made me type out bat-gas.”
is hardly in a position to tell someone else their humor “bites”.
Tim Lynch,
“Cool – so a feature character down the line is Hammerhead, then? Sorry. Feel free to beat me and I’ll go home to nurse my wounds…”
While there are times I would probably take you up on your offer, this is not one of them. That was actually amusing, Tim.
Hands up whos’ fed up with people not getting the bit with the shark?- (the ayes have it).
Very sad to read about Bill Mantlo, A great writer with much to contribute to the Marvel universe. I personally would put him up there with Mark Gruenwald, such a shame he isn’t remembered with the same fondness. I certainly wish Bill well.
On a different note: Hulk rematch against the Thunderbolts anybody? (the fact that it would have PAD writing Captain Marvel again aside).
The return of Rick Jones to the Hulk would be great. What ever happened to Janis?
Here is probably not the right place to put this but I will anyway, because it could be of interest to a lot of people. In the UK Panini are doing a comic called The Mighty world of Marvel. This is a reprint title which covers classic Marvel.
At present Hulk is being reprinted in recoloured form all the way from issue 117 and have presently reached 134. They look great and occasionally use the original covers recoloured. I don’t think these have been done in recoloured form before.
Other strips include Frank Millers DareDevil, Sterankos’ Nick Fury and Ditkos’ Doctor Strange.
Anybody whos’ interested should
E-mail: info@panini.co.uk
Website for subscriptions:http://www.panini.co.uk
Thought people would like to know.
Ian 🙂
I have to admit that I read that shark fight a couple of times to figure out what had happened. But I’m not convinced that it is a problem with the storytelling, or the art. I think there’s a tendency to skim read art – mainly because we’re used to the words doing all the storytelling for us. So when the pictures actually do start telling a story – rather than just looking pretty – we’re not necessarily conditioned to read them correctly.
I could be wrong though. Guess I’m going to have to go back and reread the pages again. 🙂
Looks like you missed the gaff there, Jerome. They really gilled you there!
However, I think I might be willing to give them both a fin to quit jawing…
Oh, I don’t mind the bites, Jerome. I’m not that shellfish. It appears that Fred had a pacific porpoise in poking fin at me.
Ahh, if only Peter had known when he wrote the Shark in to the story that it would be a bigger talking point than the Hulk himself
Ian
A. Shark:
>It appears that Fred had a pacific porpoise in poking fin at me.
Good to see that you aren’t being crabby halibut. *If that line didn’t hook you, than I’m sunk.*
Welcome back to the book that is you. Looking forward to seeing what you will do for the Green Goliath this year.
Ugh, why is everyone going on and on about this shark thing? What was so hard to understand? We see the shark swimming underwater, most likely in search of food since that pretty much all they do is eat and swimm. Shark is swimming away from us and then off in the distance there is some sort of commotion, looks like the shark just chewed up a fish. The shark is now swimming toward us, no wait he is falling to the ocean floor. What could possibly have happened to the most feared predator in the oceans? He met up to the most feared predator on the planet, the Hulk. So the shark attacked the Hulk and the Hulk ripped it in half and threw the bitey part away. What was so confusing to understand? If you actually take your time and read and look at everything that is going on and not skim through everything so quickly there really wouldn’t be a problem I think. I know we were all excited about PAD being back with the Hulk and we just want to devour the story and get to the end to see what happens but I think some of us have to slow way down and try and savour the issue because PAD is BACK! Who knows how long he will be here for, hopefully a long time, so lets try and enjoy it and not rush things 🙂
Loved the Weeks/Palmer Hulk(s). Loved the byplay between Classroom Bruce & the Hulk. Not sure where the storyline is going, but that’s part of the fun, is it not? Let’s put it this way: This is the first issue of IH I’ve picked up in a couple of years, but it won’t be the last.
I for one was not disappointed in the issue. I didn’t think it was the best comic I ever read, but certainly better than a lot of what’s out there. I don’t think I’m overstating things when I say that Mr. David shows why he’s considered by so many to be the definitive Hulk writer.
Thanks to all, by the way, for clearing up the Betty’s death question and what’s up with the Banner’s personalities since PAD left (and before he left… I have very few PAD issues after Onslaught). I’ve only read Hulk in back-issue form, and I haven’t picked up any since PAD’s departure, so I was curious.
The issue of “decompression” didn’t occur to me having read this. I took it for what it seems to have been – the first chapter in a longer arc. If things don’t pick up a little, then it might be time to cry foul over pacing issues. Heck, under many writers, this issue may have covered nothing other than Hulk’s fight with the shark, so let’s not take it for granted.
I’m intrigued about where this story is going, and what new developments and revelations will be made about Bruce Banner’s psyche. I wish you luck, PAD, and hope that this run will turn into something longer.
As much as I liked Bruce Jones’ (no relation) work on The Hulk, #77’s ending made me stand up and yell “AND?” Great return to the book!!!
But…”5 times”? Uhm…I really am doing my best not to imply anything here, (I’ve been in enough ‘net flame wars over the years to be emotionally exhausted to the point of a coma), but I got Peter David’s (and Lee Weeks’s) intention when I read that particular sequence for the first time.
Well, I do admit it was at the end of a long day, so I was tired. 🙂
I have the issue right in front of me here, and I’m breaking the first sequence down as I’m writing this: Open on underwater scene. Shark passes directly above us (the readers), and glides away from view. Mysterious burst of red is seen in the distance. Shark returns, seemingly coming right for us. Suddenly, shark careens to the right. We finally see that the shark’s lower half has been savagely torn away. Upper half of shark crashes into the ocean bottom. The recognizable silhoutte of the Hulk appears in view. Next is the big “splash” image, revealing the Hulk holding the shark’s lower half in his hand.
Two reasons it took 5 times:
1.) I did not see a “mysterious burst of red.” I saw a dark cloud. Did the Hulk just “jump/fall” into the water? It was unclear to me.
2.) I did not read the whole book far enough. I just went a few pages. I “got” what happened in that I saw the Hulk with half a shark. But the sequence in the comic didn’t make sense. You can get the picture of what must have happened, but the pictures (for me, at least) seemed to not follow what one would assumed happened. I was left unsure whether the Hulk ripped the shark in half, or if he found it already ripped in half. As you go farther in the story, it makes sense that he must have done it. But it is not completely clear at the start.
Didn’t ruin the comic for me, and I am fine with things being implied and not shown. But when the pictures leave open multiple possibilities, it is not as strong of a start as I would like.
Jim in Iowa
Hands up whos’ fed up with people not getting the bit with the shark?- (the ayes have it).
Hey, PAD asked what we thought. If I was the only one who missed it, I would chalk it up to my being a little slow. But when a significant minority (if not more) expressed some confusion, I think it is worth noting. Any good communicator would want to know if something was not clear. At the end of the day, PAD it was written and drawn just as he intended, and that is fine. But I would be shocked if he was upset that we brought it up. (And while it has come up a number of times, it has not been the major source of comments.)
Jim in Iowa
Ok, so now I am not clear. Got to slow down and proof my posts. Here is what I meant to say:
“At the end of the day, PAD may decide it was written and drawn just as he intended.”
Jim in Iowa
Glad you found that amusing, Jerome, but I think (as others have pointed out) that you missed the pun in Fred’s response as well. (That’s the only reason I jumped in — I try not to start pun cascades, but I’ll gladly participate.)
Ah well. Better luck next time … chum.
TWL
Chum.
Woot.
Okay, this is getting annoying.
The following is, verbatim, my script. This is what I wrote. This is what I intended. Any differences between what I wrote and what was on the page, don’t give me grief over them.
PAGE 1
PANEL A: The following panel sequential, until I indicate otherwise, are shot entirely from the same straight-on angle. We don
I’m on vacation and bought 3 copies (1 for myself and 2 as gifts for friends who might continue reading the book)at a comic book store here and the guy said to me “you must know something I don’t” Obviously he didn’t know so I had to enlighten him
PAD,
First, thanks for posting the script for the first few panels. I enjoy seeing what happens “behind the scenes.”
Second, while I didn’t get it (at least at first), I do appreciate your using pictures to tell the story and not just using dialog (as in your “Superman” example earlier). That is why I buy comics and not just novels. I appreciate the talent it takes to tell the story visually. I enjoy the variety it brings to how a story is told.
Finally, I aplogize if my comments in particular were annoying. If I had asked for feedback, I would want to know that this had been an issue, so I shared my thoughts. I don’t fault you or the artist, I was simply letting you know that I got confused.
I am here for the Hulk as long as you are writing it.
Jim in Iowa
PAD,
One comment: For some reason, my copy at least did not show “red.” It was more of a blackish or grey color. So I did not think of blood but of just the bottom of the ocean being stirred up. The end result can still be the same, but if I had seen red, I would have immediately thought of an attack versus just a disturbance.
As far as I know, I am not color blind, but given my political leanings, you might disagree. 🙂
Jim in Iowa
Actually, having the blood be blackish makes a lot of sense.
(Physics pedant mode ON)
Water absorbs red light preferentially, which is why by the time you’re 50-100 feet down it’s all shades of blue and green. (It’s also why a tank full of water will tend to look a little greenish if you look through it at something.)
Lots of sea creatures at depth look black, but if you bring them up to the surface it turns out some are red or pink. There was no evolutionary pressure to keep the reds from reproducing, so they did.
At any rate, at the depths we’re talking about anything red really WILL look black. If Weeks thought of that and chose accordingly, more power to him.
(Physics pedant mote OFF)
Of course, I got the point of the scene pretty quickly, so I’m perhaps not the best judge. 🙂
TWL
Actually, having the blood be blackish makes a lot of sense.
I agree, Tim. The “explosion” of blackish whatever clearly is not on the ocean floor, so it does make sense now. It just went over my head. A “blood red” color would probably have been out of place. I just never thought of it as blood for some reason. I just assumed it was a “disturbance” in the water. I just don’t like that I missed it because I am normally the one who gets it and can explain it to everyone else who doesn’t.
Jim in Iowa
I’ve never noticed Lee Weeks’ art before, but I thought this issue of Hulk was beautiful.
AND, the story (as written in your script) came across perfectly clearly to me. I was surprised to see the shark’s back end missing, and got a little shock and a little sadistic laugh out of seeing the hulk a couple panels later.
Cool stuff.
PAD,
Thank you for allowing such a forum for feedback to exist. It brings the reader much closer to the creative process and who would have thought something like this could exist when I was a kid reading comics for the first time?
I’m not going to comment on the first issue as it was just the first part of a continuing story. I will continue to read and participate from time to time.
Thanks,
MM
“At any rate, at the depths we’re talking about anything red really WILL look black”
Yeah, Tim, I know that. But since I felt my choices were (a) be scientifically accurate at the risk of confusing readers, (b) go with standard red so fans would say, “Oh…blood, or (c) show the Hulk grossly ripping the shark apart, I opted for (b). Considering that the coloring wound up being scientificallly accurate and some people are so bewildered over what happened that I actually had to post the dámņëd script, I’m going to say that my reservations were well founded and I wish it had been colored the way I specified.
PAD
Oh, that wasn’t intended as a criticism — just a comment for those who found the black confusing. I agree that it looked rather blackish in the finished art, but I think most people followed it just fine anyway.
(I wouldn’t have had an objection to red either, BTW — there are major science errors and then there are stretches to make a point, and this would clearly have been the latter.)
TWL
The funny thing for me is, I had no problem with the shark on pages 2-3. I actually had a brain fart with page one: I didn
“Oh, that wasn’t intended as a criticism — just a comment for those who found the black confusing.”
Nor was I taking it as criticism, but merely observation. The thing is, I usually try to take pains to get things right when portraying real-world aspects of things. So it’s ironic that this was an instance where I made a deliberate choice to have it be wrong to avoid confusion…and it wound up being right and, for some, confusing.
PAD
I thought the issue was a good set-up issue, the catch being I’m not a fan of set-up issues but I do understand their necessity. To this day I think Supergirl #1 is the best set-up issue I have ever read.
I am very excited for the rest of the story-line, and in general think the next year will be awesome.
PAD: I know the preoccupation here seems to be all about the shark, but I don’t think the various Internet forums accurately represent the majority of readers.
The only item that gave me pause, was learning that nothing of your previous run will be touched upon by you this year.
I understand the reasoning behind this but I just can’t let go of the fact that the Maestro may be alive and well in the present time now and this will not be resolved.
Ok, I’d love to see another Pantheon story, no way is their former leader dead!
Any idea when your new Marvel series will be revealed?
Thanks for a fun Hulk issue.
I enjoyed this issue for several reasons.
No drawn out plot lines or pages of dialogue only
with no action
The Hulk makes an appearance in his own book
Hulk Smashing (shark and squid)
Lee Weeks art
Monsters!!!!
The hope that we are seeing a Peter David run on the Hulk that will last for a while.
I enjoyed the Joe Casey run and liked some elements of Jones and Jenkins but overall felt disappointed with both.While I try to not Byrne bash too much his arc started of good then went to a whole Hulk Body /mind swap with Tyrannus thing that was soooo lame!!!!
Welcome back Peter and here is to a long run.
Any Cowboy Pete soon???
From the previews,Point Pleasant looks good (Dina meyer Yeah!!!),House M.d is great ,and am interested in your opinions on Lost and Alias
TTFN
I loved it PAD. Its good to have you back. I enjoyed the water breathing sci-fi element you added, I’m always impressed when this little creative twist is added to a story. The art was fabulous and I’m eager to get the next issue.
Best wishes and I look forward to supporting your Hulk run.
Well, I heard the script at Dragoncon, so I wasn’t confused at all by the shark. 🙂 You know when you hear a script, and you form the visuals in your head, and then the real thing doesn’t come up to your imagination?
This was a rare exception.
For the record, I have no problem with the pacing at all. With the advent of the Hulk through the water, it felt like a beginning of something, the restarting of the franchise almost as the rebirth/reinvention of the Hulk. I know it’s part of a five-issue arc, so I don’t expect anything to be resolved by the end of issue one.
The art was great. Did I mention that yet? As much as I’ve been frothing at the mouth over boring art in some books and downright bizarre in others, it was wonderful to see the work that can be done with the space to do it.
Looking forward to the rest – and answers to more questions.
This is the first Hulk comic I ever read. I’ve been a fan of your work since I “discovered” you a couple of years ago. I picked up Hulk 77 to see if it would be good.
Nice work! I’ll be around for 78
-Adam
Ps. Been reading Fallen Angel since the beginning. Great read!
RE: PAD’s return to “The Hulk”
As long as I get to keep my genitalia this time!!!!