I appreciate Michael Pullman, on an earlier thread, bringing the following to my attention, since it serves as such a perfect example of how to do it wrong…the “it” being having a gripe about the way an author wrote a story. If you have a grievance, do you (a) Go to the author’s publicly known website and ask him about it, or do you (b) mischaracterize it through hearsay and then make a series of threats against the author. If your answer is the latter, then the following is the place for you:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84384
It’s actually a pretty handy thread. Rarely do you see the worst of the fan mentality so neatly encapsulated in one place. Anyone planning to do a research paper may want to reference it.
PAD
• 
It seems the Supergirl issue did bring about discussion (not all of it intelligent, but oh well) which is probably something PAD had hoped for when he wrote it.
True, and it’s still doing that. One of the CBR posters is a female who was around 17 or 18 when she read it, and felt that the lack of closure (as she read it) made the story unsatisfying. I’m paraphrasing, but that’s how she saw it. It’s her opinion, and it doesn’t make her wrong–and really, her opinions on it are worth reading, as are a lot of the thoughts on the comic from the folks who read it. Even some of the folks who didn’t read it. That is, IF the comic was really meant to prompt discussion–which it seems to have done.
Or not, it’s just an MB, you can always just ignore stuff, right?
And I don’t know if Peter David is going to read this, but I will personally guarantee his safety against Joe Rice. He’s rather small, and I can always sit on him if it’s an issue. Just shoot over an email or call, I hope on a plane to NYC, and look, PAD gets his own yojimbo at the comiccon against the small and hairy Joe Rice. It would be a nice excuse to go to NYC, too.
Mr. David, it seems like you take threats seriously, and maybe everyone has a point that the “just kidding” argument doesn’t hold water, but at this point, if it isn’t clear that there is no threat coming, that Joe Rice is not out to cause you physical harm, that no one at CBR is out to cause you physical harm, then I’m not sure how it can be any clearer.
So, to recap
1. thanks for writing an issue of a comic that still prompts discussion
2. no one at CBR is out to cause physical harm to Peter David
3. if someone is, I will personally guarantee the safety of PAD as his yojimbo
4. I’m bigger than small hairy Joe Rice
5. I like peanuts.
werd. Feel free to laugh or wade in with some, “God that guy is a wordy moron” statements, s’all good.
-f.
What irks me is the characterization of the thread as an encapsulation of all the worst of fan mentality.
Now, I completely understand the impulse to not read further than the first page of a thread when someone links it you, but please, when a thread is 14 pages long and there’s in-depth discussions of extremely interesting and thought-provoking comic book related issues…I just do not see such a thread as the “worst of fan mentality.”
In fact, Peter himself clearly read up to the last page of the thread, as he references the posters making reference to this site…but he doesn’t mention the pages and pages and pages of valid, interesint points about the treatment of women in comics and the possible inappropriateness of using Mary Marvel in the comic?
That seems almost reminscient of the worst of creator mentality…pick one extremist point of view as the encapsulation of the debate so you can write off the valid claims as extremists as well…
Hi there. I’m the guy you’re talking about. Pleased to meet you. Thanks for the insults, I’m sure some of them were deserved.
Is “Just kidding” a good excuse? Nope. I can say that I never thought anyone would think I was serious when I said that the fictional have rights, that I was going to steal the Cosmic Treadmill that the Flash gave Julius Schwartz, or that I was going to hire a bum or a høøkër to help me push PAD over.
That was, I suppose, my mistake. I know not everyone shares the same sense of humor, but I really thought for sure that there wasn’t a fanboy on the internet that would actually think the things I said.
My biggest mistake was making judgments before reading the book. Is it heresay when a close, trusted friend tells you something? I suppose. I did go out and purchase the book the next day to make my own judgment, as you can read further in that thread.
It certainly wasn’t assault-worthy, and I apologize for even making jokes of that nature. Poor taste on my part. I do still believe the story was in poor taste, but that’s just my opinion. I’d never infringe on an artist’s right to write (awkward phrase alert) whatever they wanted. My intention was to find out if this story was as I was told, and to simply express “Ew.” I still think “Ew,” but it’s hardly a PADcentric “Ew.” I feel “ew” about how women are treated in comics all-too-often. And it’s mostly just cultural indoctrination that affects us all. But I’m rambling.
I didn’t come here to this site because A) I, not being a huge fan, didn’t know about it. And B) didn’t really think the issue was that serious. My post was full of bluster and hyperbole, and, as one poster pointed out, I did forget that anyone can come look at it. Another mistake in the Joe corner.
For the guy who said I had a reputation of doing bad things to pros at cons, well, I really don’t. One kid, that Writerboy guy, he thinks I make an ášš of myself online and we don’t personally jibe. That’s fine, not everyone needs to like each other. But I’ve never, and would never, do a single rude thing at a con to anyone. I was raised by a polite Appalachian family. The very thought of actual rudeness makes me dizzy.
When I got tired of joking around, I expressed my actual thoughts on the story, which I have read. I think it’s inappropriate, but that’s just me.
So, I made mistakes, yes. I’m still bewildered at why, when complaining that I didn’t come here to talk about it, you stay here and not make an attempt to contact me. I’m also bewildered by the fact that one dumb thread can label me as a mindless, drooling fanboy. We all have our moments, folks. I forgot I was in public and said things that friends would understand. A fellow who thinks rather poorly of me for whatever reason decided the world needed to know, and so now we have two silly threads talking about people and things without knowing the full story.
I apologize for my poor joke. Think what you will of me; I know who I am and what I am, and those who care about me do as well. I hope everyone has a pleasant day and a better tomorrow.
Two more points:
Feel free to email me with problems or questions, anyone.
and . . .
I’m not THAT small, f.! I’m six one! But thin, yes. And certainly undangerous. My second grade CLASS knows I’m undangerous. (But, hey, if someone pays for you to come to NY, that’s cool, too.)
I read through 11 pages of this last night, after I first saw the link in the other thread. First of all, it seems ludicrous to me that someone would make such a big deal about a comic without even reading the thing! That aside, I took the threats at face value. However, having read the later pages, I believe the people concerned when they say that they weren’t serious about it. Does that let them off the hook? No.
The basic theory seems to be “I was saying things that were really extreme, and surely it’s obvious that no rational person would really be willing to attack a writer to defend a fictional character’s honour”. I would agree with that. The problem is that there are two possible conclusions:
a) The poster is a rational person, who’s only joking.
b) The poster is irrational, has lost all sense of proportion, and really is willing to lash out physically.
Unfortunately, I’ve heard of enough cases in the latter category that I will take comments like this at face value, particularly if they come from someone that I don’t know, who posts under a fake name. The infamous “cup of warm vomit” incident springs to mind.
Similarly, I’m reminded of HEAT (the “bring back Hal Jordan as Green Lantern” campaign), which has been running for almost a decade now. Just to clarify, I am not suggesting for a moment that any member of HEAT is dangerous (although I’m not vouching for them either). I do think that they prove it’s plausible for people to get very emotionally involved with the fate of fictional characters.
So, combine the two issues, and you’ve got trouble.
I think accountability is important here. (I’m also reminded of the scene in PAD’s Spider-Man novelisation, where Jameson compares the people who signed the Declaration of Independence to “fluffybunny27”.) I post under my real name. Consequently, if I started threatening people, you could report me to the police. You wouldn’t even need to get my ISP’s co-operation, given that I’m listed in the electoral roll. That then means that I’m careful about what I say, and hopefully means in turn that people will take what I say more seriously. Whereas it’s very easy to hide behind a pseudonym to take potshots at people. (Even if that anonymity isn’t as real as you perceive it to be.)
I think that when a misunderstanding like this arises, the appropriate way to handle it is for the person who started it (“DaDamerican” in this case) to apologise. Something like “Actually, I was joking, and I thought that was obvious. However, apparently it wasn’t obvious, since people were concerned, so I’m sorry if I worried or offended anyone, and I’ll try to be more careful in future.” I don’t think that insulting people is such a great idea.
The only thing I would disagree with PAD about is his comment above:
Go to the author’s publicly known website and ask him about it
If people are discussing the latest issue of “Fallen Angel”, then I’d agree with that – it’s a convenient place to voice any concerns that you might have. However, the comic in question here is about 10 years old, so you’d need to “hijack” an existing topic to mention it. Maybe that’s ok (certainly it’s PAD’s forum, so he can make the rules), but it’s not something that would have occurred to me as the right thing to do.
“The shower scene they’re referring to is from SUPERGIRL #77, page 11. On the CBR boards, “DaAmerican” used to go by the moniker of “Joe Rice”; at the time of this issue’s publication, Joe had started a thread denouncing #77 because he decided that ONE PANEL had turned the book into soft-core pørņ. “
And now he’s threatening violence as revenge for how a character is written. So precieved fictional sex bad, real senseless violence good?
This is why by and large i stay away from most forums nowadays…
No, he’s not.
You just got here late, and missed all the good parts. Now we are just waiting to see if PAD will accept the apology. So don’t try to restart the fighting. Go watch Tweek vs Craig instead.
Ah, but he did. I see he’s stepping back from all this with by labeling it good clean fun, but it doesn’t change the fact that, yes, he made a threat. His intentions to carry that out are up for debate I guess.
I still find it ironic that he and others seem to find a story with fictional cartoon characters that involves sexuality horrid, but threatening violence on a real live human being, if even only a joke, a laugh-riot.
I dig the way the guy who wrote “I will personally guarantee [PAD’s]safety against Joe Rice” also claimed Rice is “rather small,” when Rice reports he’s 6’1″. Very reassuring.
I think Rice’s apology and a few of his much later comments indicate he’s not necessarily the out-of-control jáçkášš he initially appeared to be. But the beginning of that thread was quite creepy…
Goodman–
Dude, Joe Rice is like a buck oh five, WET (last time I checked anyway). Tall doesn’t equal large to me (I’m 6’0″ or 6’1″). I stand by my protective capabilities.
You realize that reassurance isn’t worth the weight of the phosphors that display it.
KET,
Originally the referred to shower scene in Supergirl #77 was not refered to as softcore pørņ. Joe Rice initially compared it to child pørņ.
And just so people know, there are well intentioned people who discuss and debate without crossing over to insanity on the CBR message boards.
A few bad apples etc.
Isn’t it funny how people are silly? And how people are so eager to point out a supposed drooling fanboy mentality, when this was all started because a fan tattled about the thread to the creator he is such a huge fan fan of?
Let’s see now… Hi. My name is Jim MacQuarrie. I’m another one of those freaks who posts under my real name, and you can learn way too much about me at my website if that’s your inclination. To the point: I’ve been around CBR for about 6 or 7 years now, and I’ve personally met several dozen of the regulars from there, including F. Chong Rutherford (I host an annual dinner at San Diego Comic Con). I haven’t met Joe in person yet, but I’ve had conversations with him off and on for most of those 6 or 7 years. i’ve also been a Moderator at CBR for about 5 years or so, for whatever that’s worth. Credentials established? OK then.
I can assure you that (a) F’s capacity to serve as yojimbo is beyond dispute (he’s skilled in several martial arts, and he’s one of the kindest and gentlest people I know, but not afraid to do what needs doing) and (b) Joe Rice is occasionally noisy, sometimes puts his foot in it, and is basically a very decent guy from whom nobody has anything to fear.
I too have problems with the story as described, since either a child molestor is running around town due to Supergirl’s doubting the account, or Mary Marvel is a dangerous and delusional girl with the power of the gods at her disposal. Either way it’s not a satisfying ending. It doesn’t help that since Mary is the victim and isn’t about to tell Supergirl her identity, we basically have Supergirl getting hearsay testimony on one side vs personal knowledge of the accused. Something of a stacked deck, I’d say. Whatever point we’re supposed to take away from the tale is undercut by the all-too-visible contrivances of the story.
So anyway, nobody’s going to get hurt by anybody, the story in question is not one of Mr. David’s best, and the folks at CBR are pretty much a great group of folks.
Nope. I can say that I never thought anyone would think I was serious […]
Except that was not the threat you started with. No, it started out more vague and sinister.
It certainly wasn’t assault-worthy
Are you suggesting that some story might have been?
“KET,
Originally the referred to shower scene in Supergirl #77 was not refered to as softcore pørņ. Joe Rice initially compared it to child pørņ.”
….which means Joe’s rant was even more idiotic than I remembered. Wow, what a difference!
“And just so people know, there are well intentioned people who discuss and debate without crossing over to insanity on the CBR message boards.
A few bad apples etc.”
….who continued to EGG JOE ON, making the thread devolve WELL PAST THE POINT OF REASON. And gee, the amazing thing is that it DIDN’T get shut down!
The fact that this public fracas made its way over here strongly suggests to me that CBR moderators simply aren’t doing their jobs properly.
KET
Gee, and I thought I was mad way back when Claremont gave Storm that punk hair-do. Now THAT was a violation!
Hello, I am Christine Calise, otherwise known as Rally on the CBR boards.
I regret that so many of you seem to think so badly of us, and of Joe. We are all pretty tight over there, which is a double edged sword. We have fun, and get rowdy, and totally forget what it might look like from outside.
While I agree that threats should be taken seriously, and that most victims know thier attackers, I still have to agree with those who are telling you, Joe is not a threat. I have had sushi with him, talked with him, argued with him, watched him get piss drunk, invited him to my wedding, etc. And so far as past behavior is the best predicate for future behavior I can tell you the worst you can probably expect from him is to get hit with hyperbole. A lot of hyperbole. Immense amounts of…um, I digress. What’s my point again….
Fanboys of all kinds, are everywhere. Are the ones who disagree with you worse then the ones who hang on your every word? Both kinds are likely to devolve into a snit at a moment’s notice. And just as quickly, get over it. It’s a tempest in a tea pot, and we need to dump it out and make some tea. And cake. We mustn’t forget the cake.
Another friend of Joe’s here. Well, long time acquaintance might be more apt. And when Christine says hyperbole, she’s being nice and not saying “bullsh##”. Because that’s what Joe does, he Bullsh##s at times.
And when he’s called on it, he apologizes, as seen above.
Morts, I thought hyperbole was yiddish for bullsh**….
KET said, “The fact that this public fracas made its way over here strongly suggests to me that CBR moderators simply aren’t doing their jobs properly.”
How’s that? Are CBR moderators supposed to chase down people and prevent them from discussing matters elsewhere? Because that, to me, is bad moderatorship which is not what happened. Someone at CBR thought he’d report what was being said about PAD here, and then everyone here began discussing the people at CBR, but not actually discussing things with the people from CBR until they had to show up here.
Plus, the fact that anyone can take what Joe said as an actual threat is ridiculous to me. We (yes, I said we) started discussing how Joe could hire a høøkër or bum to kneel behind PAD while Joe made his points defiantly to the point where PAD tripped backwards over the squating bum or høøkër. Now, how the hëll do you take a threat seriously after a comment like that? Hëll, for most of the thread, the discussion was more about Mary Marvel and the appropriate/inappropriate use of her in the story. Did some of you think Joe planned to steal Julius Schwartz’s Cosmic Treadmill too? Would I have taken any of that as threatening if someone said that about or to me? No. I’m not very afraid of someone hiring a høøkër or bum to help trip me.
Am I talking to everyone here? Of course not. Just those that still somehow see Joe’s comments as threatening after they read the thread and after he posted his comments here. CBR, like here and everywhere else in the world, has a large variety of different people.
Just this week, I signed on at the CBR boards so that I could post there. Maybe I shouldn’t have.
I’m from CBR, too. And I’m another who’s met one Mister Joseph Walter Rice in person.
It is because of these facts that I can honestly say the following words: Don’t trust these others from CBR. They’re liars and crooks and would sooner sell their own mothers than spit on them. Or something to that general effect.
I’ll tell you the really real story. God’s honest truth.
Joe’s plan was far more heinous than anyone might imagine! Does it really sound to anyone here like this dastardly fiend would be satisfied by the mere høøkër-tripping of his most-hated nemesis-of-nearly-four-days-now? I say thee nay!
I daren’t describe the specifics here for fear of offending more delicate readers (these ARE public forums available for ANYONE to read, after all), but I will briefly gloss over some of the more horrible specifics.
It involved pulleys, suction cups, and broomsticks with boots jammed on the ends of them. Did you ever play “Mousetrap” when you were a kid? It was sort of like that.
Chilling.
And it is with THIS IN MIND that I feel I must relay a warning. Being the fair, honest, calls-’em-as-I-sees-’em type that I am, I simply cannot reiterate what others in this thread have already mentioned:
CBR is a terrible, terrible cesspool. Filled to the brim with these things the Greater-of-Us like to call “fanboys” and “trolls.” Yes, I hear that word bandied about QUITE OFTEN when discussing CBR.
Our own demagogue put it better than I can, really. “Rarely do you see the worst of the fan mentality so neatly encapsulated in one place” (David, P. http://www.peterdavid.net, 11/13/2003 Entry).
Anyone that has visited the boards over there for two minutes and made a judgment is absolutely, 100%, without-a-doubt right and should just never go back! It’s a dump! I’ve TOTALLY decided to stop going there.
And like-minded people should do the same thing! By which I mean…staying here forever. And not going over there. Because it’s bad. And you wouldn’t like it.
Also, keep Writerboy over here.
I mean, WE should keep Writerboy over here. With US. At these boards here, wherever the hëll I am.
“Just this week, I signed on at the CBR boards so that I could post there. Maybe I shouldn’t have.”
That’s the spirit, Alan!
**You know, for the longest time, I wanted nothing more than to become a writer for a Big Two comic book…
And then I saw this thread, and found that no matter how good the work I do is, some people will invariably make their own judgments on my work without reading it, accuse me of things I might or might not have meant inbetween the lines, accuse me of being bipolar and heavily drugged, and compare my work with scenes of cartoon sodomization.
I think I’ll stick to warehouse work.
Mark Hughey**
Hate to tell you this but you don’t have to be a writer for the Big Two in order to run into that stuff. Things like that happen all the time to folks who, like you and me, are the rank and file of the workplace world. Just a few weeks ago I had problems with a couple of male teen-age co-workers who decided to make it a point to ask me at almost every opportunity if I was bi-polar or not, and refusing to take the hint that I was not going to ever answer that question (I still remember enough of how highschoolers think to know that either answer is the ‘wrong’ answer here: a ‘no’ answer would get me a barrage of statements to the effect that I should ‘come clean’ about my ‘problems’ and stop lying to myself; a ‘yes’ answer would have given these boys permission to trash my reputation beyond repair with both customers and co-wokers alike because after all, I did admit to being ‘ill’ and if I admitted to something like that then it’s not slander nor wrong of them if they spread it as far and wide as they wish.). One boy was writing ‘Chris is bi-polar’ or ‘is Chris bi-polar?’ any time he felt like it on a message board that was visible to any customer passing by the window (I work in a fast food place, by the way) and the other was starting to ask me if I was bi-sexual too (BI-polar BI-sexual, get it? huh-huh, get it? 😛 ). None of the ways I tried (ignoring it and them, asking ‘smart’ questions of my own, making ‘smart’ answers, threatening to sue them for harrassment, having a manager talk to them, ect.) to get them to lay off the questions worked. What finally did work was telling the managers who had some say in the hiring and firing of employees what was going on and having THEM have a little talk with these two boys about what was appropriate topics for conversation and what wasn’t. Haven’t been bothered by them on those topics since, though I’m sure they still say that stuff to their friends/co-workers. Just not to me or to my face. Though I did overhear one of the boys telling one of his friends that he couldn’t figure out why I had made such a big deal of it, threatening harrassment suits and such over a simple question when all I had to do to get him to shut up was answer yes or no. . . . . (yeah riiiiiiiiight, that would have worked. NOT.)
Anyhoo, to get this post back to what I wanted to originally say (and out of my personal problems 🙂 ), you don’t have to be a writer on PADguy’s level of quality and sales or higher to get hit with variations on the mentality we’re discussing here. Just be considered ‘different’ by a co-worker and/or aquaintence who’s essensially a turd with an attitude and a mouth and you too can experience this ‘joy’ in your own life as well. So if you still want to be a writer, go for it. Just remember to wear a rhinohide coat to keep both legitamite criticisms and moronic barbs from getting to you and bringing you down, and accept that you’re going to run into those idiots you’re afraid of no matter what you do or write. Let’s face it, if you somehow managed to only write stories on subjects that could never ever be considered controversial by anyone anywhere, the ‘fans’ you’re afraid of would still find some way of turning your body of work into an interpretation of your preverted sexual practices. 🙂
Chris
How To Do It Wrong, Redux, or Two Wrongs Won’t Make It Right.
So, in response to Joe Rice making a veiled threat and getting some dûmbášš fanboy internet yuks over on CBR, how do you respond?
Do you call him to task for it?
Do you ask politely or otherwise for an apology, retraction or amendment?
Or do you do exactly the same thing as he did on your own board?
Joe makes a threat.
You make a counterthreat.
Joe gathers his CBR buddies to offer him moral support and say mean things about Peter David.
You gather your buddies to offer you moral support and say mean things about Joe Rice.
Joe mocks your writing.
You mock Joe’s posting.
The only difference I can see is that when Joe was called, he was ‘only kidding’.
When you were called, you ‘take threats very seriously’.
Congratulations.
You win.
I’m a fairly new poster to CBR, but so far it’s the best comics board I’ve been to, populated by adult, friendly and intelligent people, on the most part. Very little flaming, very little anything bad. I really don’t have the time to go through either this thread or the one referenced in their entirety, but I think there’s some over-reaction here. I’ve seen MUCH MUCH worse, as far as this sort of thing goes, and wouldn’t worry too much about DaDaAmerican’s “threats”, which I think are a pretty lame joke… true, it’d be more respectable confronting PAD directly, but chances are this is his “plan”, if any. And I’ll bet he’s gonna be polite about it when face to face, too.
If I were you, Peter, I’d log on there and spend some time discussing the topic. And check the rules while you’re at it – hate posts, especially against creators, are considered very poor form at CBR. We all love it when one of you guys drop by to chat with us, and you’d probably feel very welcome and be called Mr. PAD.
: )
I need to make something very clear. I’ve known Joe Rice for maybe 7 years now. I’m 5’11 and there’s no way he’s two inches taller than me. I mean, not even a chance.
As to all this other stuff, I really enjoy when fanboys call each other fanboys as a derogatory statement. That’s quality stuff. It makes everyone involved a lot cooler.
How To Do It Wrong, Redux, or Two Wrongs Won’t Make It Right.
So, in response to Joe Rice making a veiled threat and getting some dûmbášš fanboy internet yuks over on CBR, how do you respond?
Do you call him to task for it?
Do you ask politely or otherwise for an apology, retraction or amendment?
Or do you do exactly the same thing as he did on your own board?
Joe makes a threat.
You make a counterthreat.
What counterthreat? He just said it illustrated the worst of the fan mentality.
I hear that the show promoters may change the dates of the Big Apple show to throw this “Joe Rice” character off the trail.
Good thinking.
Hi PAD Posters,
Guys, I’m not sure how things are over here, but over at the CBR community board we tend to forget that not everyone knows every poster and their sense of humor. Dada has a bit of a chip on his shoulder when it comes to certain creators and a huge chip on his shoulders when it comes to certain characters. And he definitely has a very, well, um, peculiar sense of humor.
However, he is makes his living teaching inner city school children and is well liked by the posters who have met him in real life. He is one of the good guys. His comments come from a deep concerns about children and the exploitation of women. Yes, he might be a bit reactionary but his heart and mind are in the right place. So, while I won’t excuse his sometimes boorish behavior, I will ask you to remember that his comments definitely need to be judged in the context in which they were presented – a message board he has frequented for over 7 years where ‘everyone knows his name.’
One last thing – one of the posters here made some really interesting points about Ambush Bug. To that poster -please, if you ever feel inclined, come over to the Classics board at CBR and join in on the debate. Yes, there is some silliness on the board, but it is also the home of some fantastic discussions. Through that board, I’ve been promted to read some great books such as the EC New Wave books and Steve Gerber’s Howard the Duck.
Heck, I invite all of you to come over to CBR. I think that after a little exploring you’ll find that we have something for everyone.
In response to Dubin: I’ve never met Joe Rice, but I have drank his liquor. And Maker’s Mark is a tall man’s liquor.
My name’s Dan Apodaca. I’m from CBR. I also happen to be a friend of Joe’s. I just thought I should clarify something. Joe never asked us to do anything about this. He never called for us to back him up, or rally behind him. He wasn’t even the one who told us that you guys were talking about this here. So, I just thought it should be well understood that this is not a matter of Joe calling for his posse. Anyone who has ventured over to this discussion has done it by their own free will, and independent thought.
I’m not here to defend Joe. I don’t think I need to, and frankly, it’s not my place. Joe can take care of himself, and he did as much by posting his own response.
Regardless, I think it’s awfully ridiculous what’s going on here. Fans calling other fans “fanboys” as an insult is analogous to tech-geeks calling each other the same. We all have a little bit of fanboy in us. Joe gets geeky over the Marvel family. You guys get geeky over PAD. I get geeky over Dan Clowes.
The point is, all this requires is a little rational thought. CBR is one of the most well-establishedand respected comic-sites on the internet. The owner and head is well-informed of any problems that may arise on the message boards, as I’m sure Mr. David is here. If there were a situation in which he honestly believed that one of the posters was making threats toward a creator, or any other person for that matter, it would have been dealt with immediately. Joe has been a long-time poster on the site, and Mr. Weiland should know fairly well whether he is dangerous or not. Therefore, if Joe is considered to be harmless by a large amount of CBR posters, as well as people who have met him in person, as well as website administration, it seems to me that it should be fairly clear to be the truth.
Now, we’ve established over and over that Joe has (and had) no sinister intentions towards Mr. David. And yet, the only response that seems to come is “I don’t buy it.” or “No way, this guy’s a jerk.” So, how about we have a little fairness on both sides? You guys lay off the CBR/Joe attacks, and we remember that Joe already apologized and has since layed off of PAD.
Now, anyone on this board care to actually discuss the issue in question?
Now, anyone on this board care to actually discuss the issue in question?
Well, I did in detail in a separate post. The response? Pretty much dead silence.
Why did I not come onto the CBR board and respond directly? Because putting aside that I didn’t feel like dealing with the “That’s not really Peter David!” crap that invariably accompanies such endeavors…it seemed a hostile environment interested less in hearing real answers than in posturing, chest thumping, and stupidity. Not everyone was like that, granted, but enough for me to figure, “Eh. Not worth it.”
Now: In the past, people have e-mailed me and said, “Hey, this book of yours is being discussed, and there’s disagreements as to your intent, would you care to come over and chat about it?” In those cases, I’m there in a heartbeat. But the CBR environment seemed toxic. So why bother?
PAD
I am sorry that you feel that way, Mr. David.
I am a big fan of yours and I participated in the thread in question over on the CBR Board.
I never really felt that Joe was a physical threat to you, but I did want to know exactly what his intentions were. Joe is one of the good guys and I am sure that his apology was sincere.
I do understand that you don’t have the time or inclination to go off and defend yourself every time that your name is mentioned on a message board, but I think you might have been pleasantly surprised had you ventured to CBR. As far as I am concerned, the invitation is still open.
Thank You so very much.
Mark B. (For Baronner)
All you seem to want to do is bait PAD to go over to your lame comic forum where all they do over there is bash comic creators and writers. Pretty obvious.
“All you seem to want to do is bait PAD to go over to your lame comic forum where all they do over there is bash comic creators and writers. Pretty obvious.”
Ah, another considerate and thoughtful response. You’ve read one thread out of maybe a hundred thousand and that’s enough for you to form an opinion?
Okay, I admit it – you’re right. Even the Television and Music boards are clandestine creator-bashing forums. The Hellboy forum that CBR hosts for Mike Mignola? Yup, you guessed it. More creator-bashing. The only reason Mike pays for the board is that he’s actually a masochist.
I guess the jig’s up. Now we’ll all have to move out of our parents’ basements, get jobs, and lose our collective virginity.
“All you seem to want to do is bait PAD to go over to your lame comic forum where all they do over there is bash comic creators and writers. Pretty obvious.”
If that were the case, Peter David is the last guy I would want coming to CBR.
He’s way too smart.
You are more than welcome to give it a try as well, you might just be pleasantly surprised.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/
Mark B.