I think it’s time that I addressed you as well. I need to make something clear:
I don’t give a dámņ why you’re not voting for Hillary.
So on this site, on Twitter, on Facebook: You can stop trying to explain it. It’s of no relevance to me. Don’t give me samples from the quarter century’s worth of dirt that the GOP has thrown at her. Don’t howl at me about money she makes from speeches (which she largely gives to charity). Don’t whine at me about how Bernie was screwed out of this, that and the other thing, something that I don’t recall Hillary fans declaring whenever Bernie won something.
Your explanations don’t matter. Your great rebellion doesn’t matter. Senate experience, Judaism and Socialism don’t matter. All that matters is this one simple truth:
Donald Trump must not be elected. Must not.
The simple, irrefutable fact is that Trump’s success is based upon the worst that this country has to offer. He appeals to racists, sexists, misogynists, and fascists. When someone is running for President and both North Korea and Russia endorse him, that alone should make you realize how utterly screwed up he is. Donald Trump may well be the least qualified person to be a major party nominee in the history of this country.
He must be stopped.
If you are not voting for Hillary, you are endorsing Donald Trump. It is just that simple. If you write in Bernie, that’s a vote for Trump. If you sit on your ášš at home, that is a vote for Trump.
If you sit there shrouded in obliviousness, unaware of just how much damage Donald Trump can do on a global scale, then you are quite simply an idiot. And yes, I know that Bernie supporters shriek and piss and moan when they’re insulted. That’s fair; on the other hand, calling you idiots isn’t an insult. It’s simply truth.
There’s a very old saying: you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. If you refuse to vote for Hillary, if you endorse Donald Trump, you are part of the problem, and I have zero interest in hearing you explain why.
PAD
Updated 9:30 PM: Read this. It’s what I said but said much better.
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“To all those Bernie Sanders voters who have been left out in the cold by a rigged system of superdelegates, we welcome you with open arms,” – Donald Trump.
One side loves and respects different opinions. The other shrieks and wants you to be silenced, just as they do us. We’re on the same side Bernie friends!
Really?
Trump stands for almost everything Bernie stands against. Bernie has condemned the idea of Trump as President. Trump was also far less gracious to Cruz,Kasich, the others, and all of their supporters when they were competing against him.
People on the left want Bernie to bow out gracefully- just as Hillary did eight years ago now -to unite the party against someone,in this case Trump, who stands for complete and utter insanity. Hillary and Bernie have far more in common than Bernie and Trump do.
Trump wants Bernie supporters to vote for him so he can laugh at them later.
I foresee a LOT of third party candidates getting an unusual amount of votes this election.
Neither choice, Trump nor Hilary, are palatable or acceptable…
PAD: To your point that Trump must not be elected. A financial planner I know confided to me yesterday that despite being a staunch Republican, if it looks like Trump is going to win, he’ll reduce his market positions. That is telling. I suggest that people ask financial adviser what they will do with their money if it looks like Trump will be elected. I am sure that they will echo my friend. Trump’s grasp of economics is on the level of a grade school bully. You simply cannot, as he has promised, default on the U.S. bonds, slap a 45% tariff on trade goods, withdraw from the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty and retreat from our Asian markets without causing a world wide depression. And this does not even address his attacks on the judiciary, his racism and sexism. While I am Democratic Candidate for the New York Assembly (19th AD), I am by no means a Hilary fan. However, Hilary is not a fool, and will not accidentally destroy the world economy. She understands that you cannot shoot from the hip.Policy is created after study and deliberation. Bernie supporters need to understand that not to vote is a vote for Trump. And to vote for Trump because you are upset with the system is like burning down the house because you don’t like the furniture.
PAD, Amen.
The sad part is that so many Bernie fans I’ve encountered online and in the real world are so uninformed and so deep into the anti-Hillary propaganda they dredged up from conservative trash sources like Breitbart, WND, and TPNN and that they’ve happily fed on as part of their pro-Bernie push that they’ll point blank tell you that Hillary is worse than Trump and (unbelievably) that Hillary has more in common with the far right than Trump.
So saying that Trump might win because they want to be stubborn probably isn’t much of a threat for some of them.
I think it’s really telling that so many are willing to settle for Hilary just because Trump is worse. America HAS fallen if this is the best the electoral system has to offer….
I think this “problem” has been blown out of proportion. I do not think there is any significant number of people who were supporting Sanders that will be voting for Trump. Scolding the entirety of his supporters because of a minuscule minority seems counterproductive.
Neither do I. But if a significant portion don’t bother to come out and vote for Hillary, that would be VERY helpful for Trump. THAT is the concern.
PAD
To start out with: I support Bernie. I have from the get-go. I voted for him in my primary (NH, so I had *lots* of choices, including the guy who wears a boot on his head and supports putting research money into time travel). I’ve railed on FB about the shenanigans being pulled by the DNC in favor of Hillary. I’ve railed against the lack of media attention being given to his campaign. I’ve railed against the superdelegates pledging for Hillary before the very first vote was cast, at them continuing to support Hillary against the wishes of the populace (I read something like one superdelegate in NH had as much power as 105,000 regular voters…). I’ve railed against the entire system being seemingly designed to crown Hillary Clinton.
And now that it’s over, now that she’s won the nomination…
Well, now I plan to vote for Hillary in November.
Unfortunately, virtually all of the Bernie supporters I know are planning on either not voting, or writing in his name. I’ve also seen a fair amount of traffic on various sites with people claiming that if Bernie’s out, they’re voting Trump because they simply will not vote for Hillary. I can’t tell you what percentage of Bernie supporters this is; it may well be a minuscule minority. I don’t know. But it seems like a sizeable percentage, and an even bigger percentage are claiming they’ll either be writing in his name or not bothering to vote at all.
I’ve gone on these boards, pleading with people to vote for Hillary in November. In response, I’ve been called jerk, áššhølë, Shrillary Shill, and worse. I have seen a *lot* of instances of people claiming to be Democrats and/or Bernie supporters who will vote for Trump because they simply will not vote for Hillary. And it makes me weep.
And Ralf, you need to re-read PAD’s post. He didn’t say they’ll be voting for Trump directly… he said that those who either write in his name or simply stay home will, indirectly, be voting for Trump. And he’s right.
Vote your conscious all you want… but be dámņëd sure you’re aware of the consequences thereof. As of now, a vote for Bernie is a vote against Hillary… and that means a vote for Trump.
Republicans who are disgusted with Trump aren’t going to vote for Hillary. Some of them will stay home and not vote… but a lot of them will go out and vote for Trump because at least he’s not Hillary.
Democrats who are disgusted with Hillary need to vote for her anyway, because no matter what your opinion of her is… do you really think Trump’s better? If you really and truly believe this… then by all means, vote for Trump. That’s your right, and I’ll be dámņëd if I tell you otherwise.
But if you don’t believe this… if you believe that no matter how bad Hillary is, Trump would be worse… then I beg you, vote for her. Don’t vote for Bernie. Don’t not vote. Vote against Trump if that’s how you want to look at it… but come November, put your X in the box next to Hillary’s name. Because anything else may as well be a vote for Trump.
One can only hope that this just the vocal minority of idiots who say that they will vote for Trump instead of Clinton over Sanders not getting the nomination.
If not, then we are well and truly screwed.
1. Some of the Bernie supporters who are talking up Trump are the reprehensible “Bernie Bros” who supported Bernie not because of his politics but because Hilary is a girl. This small but vocal group has been making life miserable for Bernie and his more progressive supporters. But if you do a poll and ask “who are you voting for,” the poll tends not to ask “are you a misogynist who would rather elect any man over a woman?”
2. That said, I have found the unwillingness to embrace reality in the Sander camp annoying. Someone I know has been spouting every “Bernie was robbed” theory for three months, and came close to suggesting that the AP declaring Hilary had the delegates before the CA primary was meant to undermine voter turnout, and only this week admitted that Bernie will not convince all the superdelegates to change allegiance. And this person IS voting for Hilary. A lot of Bernie’s people – perhaps goaded on Bernie, but more likely just goading each other on – have come to see Hilary as the representative of everything that is wrong with American politics. Six months of negative campaigning and a lifetime of distrust for the Clintons have clouded their judgment. Which is a bit sad since objectively speaking the distance between Hilary and Bernie is not as big as they claim. And since, when this all started, it was clear that each felt the other would be a better president than any GOP candidate.
It’s certainly not too late to get these devoted but deluded supporters back to reality. But it is worrisome how far they strayed from it. (PS: I voted for Bernie, but I think I might have made a mistake.)
This is as similar situation to what the GOP had four years ago with the Ron Paul supporters. Not perfectly analogous, as RP never was close to winning, but they were a very vocal, very energized group, some of which were attracted to their candidate in part due to their outsider status.
The GOP went out of their way to marginalize delegates representing Paul, and changed their rules to do so, and shut them out of the convention.
Right now, telling Bernie supporters to “shut up” is counter productive. It’s time for Hillary to co-opt them, not alienate them. And they have far more leverage than Ron Paul’s supporters did.
Here’s the problem for Hillary though, Bernie himself may be able to make a deal with and work with Hillary. But, for a portion of his supporters (how much, I don’t know, but a non-trivial number for sure) see Hillary as part of the problem with cronyism that bailed out the banks at taxpayer expense and left no consequences for those who grossly mismanaged themselves.
Now, they won’t be Trump supporters by a long shot, but third party candidates are there for them on these topics.
There’s Jill Stein of the Green Party, which would be a natural fit, but they aren’t on enough ballots or get enough support to matter.
A less perfect fit, but one that does address the cronyism issue, and acceptable on social issues, is the Libertarian, Gary Johnson. He is trying to attract Bernie voters, (far more credible than Trumps ridiculous attempt at wooing them, then again that’s a low bar). He has a chance at winning. A roulette wheel chance, for sure, but far better than the lottery ticket chances the LP has had in the past.
The state of the old parties is one caused by the fact the they each have relied too heavily on portraying each other as so bad as to scare voters into voting for them exclusively out of fear of the other. They are no longer rivals or enemies. They are each other’s alibi.
The GOP will try to scare voters into voting for a sub-par candidate with the prospect of a Hillary presidency. The Dems will do the same with Trump. Their strongest arguments are being the lesser of two evils.
But even there the danger of either one is overblown. If either old party candidate becomes president, and is as bad as advertised, it’s only the presidency, not dictator for life. We’ve survived 8 years each of W. and Obama., what we won’t survive is an infinite path of what I call the evil of two lessors. Greater competition on the general ballot can only help improve matters.
So, if you haven’t figured out yet, I’m a Libertarian. So I’m hoping the Bernie supporters get marginalized by the Democrats, so that these voters can be picked up by Gary Johnson. Trying to shame them into conformity will backfire. But don’t let me stop you.
I voted for Bernie. I don’t like Hillary, I don’t trust her, but I will absolutely be voting for her in November. It’s ridiculous not to.
And the republicans know it, That’s why they are still trying to find a way to oust Trump from the nomination.
Even the disaster that has been his presidency, Obama would have a better shot against Trump.
Sad day for America that this is what we’re left to vote for
^This, basically. I’m grateful that Bernie ran; I’m glad he brought a lot of important issues to the forefront and that it galvanized millions of people to support his platform. I supported his campaign whole-heartedly and I don’t regret it. Hopefully it will make it easier for future similar candidacies in the future.
I don’t care for Hillary’s foreign policies and I think she’s far too militaristic and hawkish for my tastes. But when the alternative is Orange Hitler, UH YEAH I’m voting for Hillary!
I, too, am a Bernie supporter who’ll be voting for Hillary (unlike others, I’m not a Hillary-hater; I just like Bernie better). I agree with everything PAD and a lot of other people have already said.
I’d just like to add that I feel like some of Bernie’s supporters don’t get it. They seem to truly believe it’s “Bernie [’16] or Bust.” Maybe it’s people’s short attention spans, need for instant gratification, or a lack of knowledge of history, but giving up the war if one battle is lost is the last thing that should be done. A movement like this, a campaign like this, should be about far more than one Presidential election. It should be about getting people elected locally in the odd years. It should be about electing governors and congressmen. It should be an ongoing grass roots movement to get acceptable candidates elected every year. And if we can’t get progressive candidates elected, we must at least get ones that will hold ground and not take us backwards.