People seem eager to discuss BSG, so much so that they’re putting spoilers/ruiners on the Larsen thread. This is grossly unfair to people who may be reading along about Larsen and suddenly find themselves staring right at the identity of the final Cylon. The design of this blog makes it impossible for people to refrain from seeing such information if they’re just cruising along on a particular thread. Please refrain from that practice.
If you want to discuss BSG, as a courtesy I’m providing this space. I’m not discussing it yet because, honestly, I’m still processing it.
PAD
UPDATED: Okay. I’ve processed it. Comments below the cut line
It was a hëll of an episode. The series has moved so far away from the simple notion of Humans vs. Cylons that it’s almost impossible to take it all in. Cylons were the missing 13th tribe? They settled on Earth and were mingling with humans thousands of years ago? Were they somehow responsible for the final nuclear holocaust that wiped out all life? Does it even make any sense? The Cylons were created by man. How far back? THAT far back? I had the impression that the skin jobs were a more recent development; so how did they wind up on earth thousands of years ago? Did they fall through a time warp or what?
We now know the identity of the final Cylon (which this space pegged as 200 to 1 odds last year.) Originally I considered the notion to be a tad repetitive considering the revelation of Tigh’s status. But with this added notion of essentially lost soul mates, separated by 2000 years and now by his own hand, it takes on huge dimensions. Will he now spend the remaining nine episodes trying to find another version of her? Is she gone forever, thus guaranteeing that the Cylons will never, ever be complete?
And I’m left wondering whether there still isn’t some Cylon over-intelligence involved in all this. They are, after all, still machines. So who programmed them?
As for D’s suicide, as shocking as it was, it also made sense. First she’s in mute shock; then she’s suddenly upbeat. That should have been a warning right there.
Overall I thought it was pretty powerful.
• 
And I love that Gaeda’s boyfriend is seen in the main series as of this episode.
Actually, Mr. Hoshi has been floating around since “Pegasus.” He joined the Galactica CIC crew after the Pegasus was destroyed in Season 3. I was actually slightly amused when Adama told Hoshi to assume Dee’s duties, since he’d been doing her old job since he arrived on Galactica. I don’t think she’s actually had a position for the past year and a half, she just sort of stood around and looked busy.
BTW, once in a former thread, I asked a question which nobody answered to. So, I think I’ll repost it here: In the mini-series, Adama received a message telling him that there were only twelve models of Cylons. Was it ever revealed who sent it to him? (no spoiler, please, just yes or no).
Well, not revealed per se, but the implication and the original idea were confirmed by RDM. It’ll probably never be said outright, though. It’s pretty easy to guess, based on all the information we have on-screen. I mean, who else would know?
But how they revive is just one of many mysteries they may or may not answer. I’m really hoping they do answer all this stuff. If they don’t explain how there’s a Six in Baltaar’s head and a Baltaar in Caprica Six’s head, I’ll be very disappointed.
In interviews and such, RDM has mentioned that there’s a really good explanation coming, in the context that it made him wish he’d used more of the Baltar in Baltar’s head in season 4.0, most of which ended up being cut in the script stage.
Final episode: Dirk Benedict wakes up screaming.
Lying next to him is Maren Jensen.
Starbuck: “Gods, Athena! I had the wierdest, most
terrifying dream!”
Jason M. Bryant remember Tyrol and other engeneers PROVED that the viper “Kara” came back in was a copy. NOT THE ORIGINAL. And we and Apollo did see Kara’s Viper blow up. That’s her viper torn apart and crashed on Cylon Earth. And I think the body is genuine. Kara even knows it. If that’s Kara than WHAT AM I?! WHAT AM I?! Either Kara in a new body or a clone. That’s my theory until BSG debunks it.
Like alot of people, I thought D’s suicide was a prelude to a Cylon reveal. It’s so much more poignant that it wasn’t.
As for Starbuck…I’m wondering if she isn’t an “enemy” Cylon from Earth. That is, there are twelve human model Cylons for the Twelve Colonies, but whatever nature of being the Cylons had on Earth they probably weren’t limited to twelve unique models. A Starbuck Cylon from Earth would exist outside of the twelve and their plan. Perhaps she represents a destructive faction from the war that ravaged the Earth 2000 years ago, was reincarnated on the twelve colonies, and as the Hybrid put it, is the harbinger of death.
I can’t wait for the final episodes!
I never doubted that the Viper she came back in was a copy. I just doubt that *she* is a copy. The Viper that she came back in was a nice, clean, perfect machine. The Kara that came back was the same as the one that left. There seems to be a difference between what happened to her and what happened to her ship.
I’m not doubting the strong possibility of a clone, but it seems like that would feel a little too similar to her being a Cylon.
I think the big question is, why did they bother with swiping Kara and resurrecting her and her ship at all? If they wanted to lead the fleet to Earth, there were easier ways to get their attention.
I didn’t want to mention this before because I think she’s wrong, but for some reason, the lady in my life thinks that the fifth Cylon will turn out to be Kara’s “new” Viper.
Is that weird or what?
Plus, we already know that these Cylons age, so they might be reborn differently.
By “these” are you referring to just the final five, or all “skin jobs”. On another site someone commented on how Tigh and the rest actually age, as if that was something the first 7 didn’t do.
But Six and the rest look four years older to me than they did in the pilot episode.
I meant that the final five age normally and the other skinjobs don’t.
The four years of aging for the others is just the reality of four years of filming. It’s minor enough that I never noticed it, so it’s easy to ignore.
When Tigh revealed to Adama that he was a Cylon, they specifically talked about how Tigh had aged in the decades they had known each other that’s different from the first seven skinjobs. So it’s part of continuity, even though the aging of the actors might muddle the effect a bit.
Lee: yeah, that’s pretty weird. Just tell her that the rule is that there are 12 “human models” of Cylons. That’s how Six described it in the original miniseries.
Mentioning the infamous original two parter, didn’t Moore say that the Ship of Light would appear?
I don’t remember if it was stated that the Ship o Lights would appear, but Starbuck’s return definitely made me think of it, and while this series has been consistently darker and richer in storyline than the original, almost all of the salient points of the original have been incorporated (ie. Kobol, the Pegasus/Commander Cain)so it seems logical that we would continue and see this aspect as well.
I don’t remember if it was Ron Moore, but a couple years ago I read an interview with one of the creators that mentioned the Ship of Light. He said it was a great episode and they were hoping to fit it in, but they weren’t sure how. It was one of those things they were going to think about and see if they could make it work.
The harmonious “new deal” cylons of earth minus 2000 years were actually blown up by warmongering humans.
They may have been led by Cheney, Bush, O’Riley and the revolutionist G. Beck… Well led would not be an adequate term for those gutless warmongering cowards, but you get the point.
Humans suck (eloquent) long live the Cylons.
Glen
Since there is a difference between the original mini-series (12 models and the mysterious phone call that tipped Adama off) and the regular series (10 models) of 2 Cylons, could the shortage be the pair we know as Adam and Eve?
But then again, the 8 models of “skin jobs” plus the final 5 makes 13.
Your math is off. There are 12 skin jobs in both the mini and the regular series.
1 – Brother Cavil
2 – Leoben
3 – D’Anna
4 – Simon (played by Rick Worthy)
5 – Aaron, the first one we met in the mini
6 – played by Tricia Helfer
8 – Boomer / Sharon
Plus the “Final 5.”
Thompur – I have to say that I really like your idea for the ending of BSG [though I wasn’t that fond of the Newhart version at the time…].
And also that Maren Jensen was a cutie. But, mostly that I really like your ending 🙂
Well, I guess that finally rules out the “Boxey as Cylon” theory then (from PAD’s novel); pity about that.
As I understand it, the original chronology goes like this: humans invented metal Cylons, who then rebelled in the first Cylon war (about 20 years ago). Those Cylons then disappeared, continued improving their own design, and came back as the silent metal versions and the skin jobs, i.e. humans weren’t aware of the new models until the attack on the colonies.
Based on the latest episode, it looks as if humans and Cylons co-existed, then the skin jobs went off and built their own robots. However, this raises various questions. Actually, it reminds me of an old “Transformers” comic, where Optimus Prime says that he thinks of some other Autobots as being younger than him, but they should all be the same age; the issue there was that they all had pretty hazy memories about their creation. In the case of the skin jobs, how far back do their memories go? They should have some idea of how old they are, if the same minds have been active since day 1 (rather than humans relying on ancestral writings).
As for the final five, how about their memories? Did they have parents, or were they adopted (like the Immortals in “Highlander”)? When Adama met Tigh, they were both adults; does Tyrrell have any childhood friends who are still alive?
Regarding Starbuck, someone must have created a new Viper for her, so presumably Earth isn’t uninhabited. That means that it would make sense to stick around for a while, rather than heading back out into space.
Anyway, I’m confident that all the questions will be answered (unlike “Lost” which I abandoned last year), so I’m looking forward to the remaining episodes.
As I was watching the episode, and we came to the scene where Starbuck finds the wrecked viper and– apparently– her own corpse, I thought, “aha! We’re meant to think the Starbuck we know crashed and died, and was reborn on a nearby resurrection ship or in some similar facility, but for whatever reason didn’t recall her “rebirth.”
But it seemed like too much of a red herring, so I wasn’t quite ready to conclude Starbuck was the final Cylon.
On the other hand, I didn’t have a specific suspect in mind.
(actually, I jokingly told a co-worker it must be Boxey, who hadn’t been seen since the 2003 mini series? Why hadn’t he been seen? He was off somewhere, plotting)
The “traditional” explanation of Starbuck’s discovery would probably be that at some point in the future she’ll somehow travel back in time, only to crash and die on Earth. I’m kinda hoping the writers break with tradition and come up with some other explanation- one that doesn’t reveal it was a hoax, dream or imaginary story.
The Ellen Tigh revelation came completely out of left field, and reminded me of the revelation of the identity of the Hobgoblin in the Spider-Man books. As PAD recounted in his CBG column (and perhaps on this blog, too), all the clues pointed to Ned Leeds as Hobgoblin. But for one reason or other, the decision was made to kill Leeds before the reveal of the Hobgoblin’s identity. This would necessitate a new person behind the mask, despite all the clues pointing toward Leeds. As I recall, PAD said that revised revelation wouldn’t work; that, in effect, it would be cheating the readers; and that Marvel should keep the Leeds reveal, with the further reveal that following Leeds’ death, the man who orchestrated the murder then assumed the identity of the Hobgoblin. As PAD pointed out, Leeds went from the most likely suspect to the least likely, because he was dead.
And so it was with Ellen Tigh. I don’t know that she was the least likely, but I suspect most people had still living characters in their pool of candidates.
Rick
Ok. I think the Starbuck/ressurection (spelling may be off, all apologies) angle could be answered with the Ship of Lights (remember from the first series?) Perhaps some humans evolved into higher beings and are behind the scenes pulling strings here and there. In the final episode we will meet thier leader, played by…Dirk Benedict! (I also heard rumors from that god awful Galacctica 1980 series that they did plan to do another episode where Starbuck (Dirk Benedict) got off that planet somehow. Still i think it would be cool to see Dirk in the final episode(s).
I would be incredibly surprised to ever see Dirk Benedict. He’s been very negative about the show, which is fine, but he’s also written insulting things about Katee Sackhoff, his replacement. It seems like a bad blood situation.
No, Dirk has not written or said anything negative about Kate or the show as it is developing, he was very negative about the lack of creativity in nowadays entertainment industry, that has to paint again some old paintings as a result of the lack of new ideas and guts to undertake new projects.
And I’m sure that the truth about Starbuck’s comeback and corpse is in the original series: remember the “Ship of Light”?
For those who have not seen that old episode, watch it and the see the episode of the new series when Starbuck “dies”.
My theory so far:
Humans and Skinjobs lived on Kobol.
So we have a polytheistic Kobol. The 13th tribe, entirely composed of cylons split off and settle earth. They are monotheistic. The humans then attack the heretic cylons and blow up earth from orbit.
But the final five have planned for this and ensure their resurrection among the humans. Ellen to Saul in earth’s past:”Don’t worry Saul, everything is in place, we’ll be reborn again, together”. In other words: “Don’t worry Saul. Everything is in place for us to be reborn together”. That certainly sounds like a plan.
Tory to Anders after he finds the guitar:”I remember you playing for us”.
Anders woke up the final five with a song he had prepared 2000 years ago just prior to dying in the nuclear attack on earth. It signals their cylon conciousness to snap awake when the breadcrumbs laid out for the humans to follow to earth directs them to the nebula.
The big question is to what end?
Reunification of the 13 tribes? It’s possible but it could well be something far more sinister.
Way back in season 2 Baltar’s mental 6 claims to be an angel from God send to bring humanity to an end. Starbuck is said to be a harbinger of death. She’ll bring them all to their end.
It’s possible reunification is not the big plan. Are the final five helping mankind or leading them to their destruction?
I think most of us have considered the final five beneficial to humanity in some mysterious way since they seemed to lead humanity to earth but it could be they’re not beneficial. Earth certainly doesn’t seem to be the promised land. The final five could be on a revenge mission, plunging humanity into despair and eventually death.
First they destroy human civilisation, then they lead them on a wild goose chase to find earth only to show humanity what they had done to the cylons: “See, this nuclear waste is your legacy, now you have suffered like we have suffered and now you can all go to hëll”.
I get the feeling however the final five are not taking revenge and someone else is acting out his revenge.
If the earth cylons believe in the same God as the modern cylons and if that is the same God sending mental images into Baltar and 6’s head is that then also the “Evil One”. Did the earth cylons worship the one called the “Evil One” by the colonists? Well if the Kobol polytheists equated the cylon god with being the “Evil One” mentioned in their scriptures then it is not strange they would want to wipe out the 13th tribe with a nuclear attack.
Moreover what if the leaders of Kobol were right? What if the Jealous God is synonymous with Iblis from the original series? Iblis is an arabic name for the devil. The devil can be described as a jealous god. While Moore has said Iblis will not be in his series he certainly seems to have a mythical counterpart.
1.Did the 13th tribe worship the Jealous God who declared himself the one true God?
2.If they did indeed then did the final five also worship the One whose name cannot be spoken or did they betray their own kind to be resurrected to protect mankind against humanity’s inevitable destruction at the hand of an equally resurrected “Iblis” vengefull against humanity for wiping out his worshippers?
If the final five prove to be beneficial saviors of mankind working against “Iblis” then “Iblis” could well be the one who staged the destruction of the colonies and the breadcrumbs leading to earth whereas the final five ensured their resurrection along the way to earth in order to save mankind from being the victim of the One whose name cannot be spoken’s revenge. Or better yet are the final five planning to destroy the Jealous God once and for all?
3.If the Jealous One is equally resurrected in human/cylon form then who is he? 12 models, 13 tribes. You’d expect there to be a 13th cylon. Is he a 13th cylon? Is he someone we know? Starbuck, the harbinger of death? Baltar, the destroyer of worlds? Or someone we don’t know or have not yet suspected.
Am I the only one who thinks that the 12th cylon revelation was sort of uninspiring? If there is a lost 13th colony, why not a lost 13th cylon model (Starbuck) that not even the cylon’s know exists? In fact, what if the skin-jobs are the god’s of myth that the humans worship, and Starbuck is a representative of the cylon’s one true god? It’s the ultimate “who made who?”.
You really wanted it to be Starbuck, huh?
Hmn… I personally think Starbuck could be “ressurected” (with cylon or analogue) technology even without being the final cylon. Perhaps she’s a hybrid, like has been suggested, or perhaps there’s some technology out there that can ressurect humans.
I think that because we saw her viper starting to fall apart before entering the supposed portal that transported it to “Earth”. She (or her body, at least) could hardly have survived that.
I really hope they explain the whole god/gods crap properly…