Because you see what’s going on there and you say, “Cheeeeeez.”
Passing a law that strips an entire union of its right to collectively bargain? What the hëll is up with that?
“We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union…”
There it is, right there. The spirit of combining power in order to gain collective strength and be able to protect mutual interests, right there in the preamble to the Constitution. We’ve got “United” in our country’s name, for God’s sake.
It’s appalling, and the only thing more repulsive than the GOP ramming this through is the fourteen Democrats who headed for the hills rather than stay and try to slug it out. I am so dámņ sick of Democrats rolling over when it comes to a fight. And this time it’s teachers who are paying for it.
Please tell me that a lawsuit’s going to result from this. For all I know, it’s a First Amendment issue. The Supreme Court has protected the rights of jáçkáššëš to fling insults at funerals and the rights of big business to try and influence elections. If talking is protected speech, and money is protected speech, how is talking about money NOT protected speech? We draw the line of free expression at teachers assembling and speaking with one voice saying, “This is what we want?” How is THAT fair?
PAD
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Well…if the Democrats had stayed and slugged it out, it would have been quickly passed as part of the budget plan as originally intended, and there would have been much less national press. There were only enough of them to prevent a budget vote, not enough to actually win a vote.
There are probably a lot of Wisconsinites who listen more to national press than local/state press (as I detect similar likelihoods in my home state) so in the end the Democrats fleeing might make the WI GOP suffer more in the next elections.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said. Though I’m not a Wisconsinite.
They should have realized the GOP would eventually find a loophole to ram it through. What they should have done was launch a full blown media blitz while offering arguments to everyone and anyone who would listen.
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PAD
The Democrats leaving the way they did made Walker and WI GOP show their real hand in that it had NOTHING to do with state budget, and everything to do with stripping of rights. Recalls are in motion, lawsuits are being filed, and Walker’s days are probably numbered (though he cannot legally be recalled until Jan. of ’12).
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What he and the other WI GOP did was keep this on the national radar through the 2012 election, which is not good for the GOP as a whole. Especially if they want to try to win the White House.
They did launch a full-blown media blitz — PROVOKED BY THEIR LEAVING THE STATE. Leaving the state meant that there were weeks of protests and media attention and now 8 of the GOP senators are likely to face recall elections.
None of that would have happened (or be happening) if they hadn’t left.
I have to agree with John. By doing what they did, they were able to keep the attention on the issue for a far longer period of time than had they remained and the bill was passed right away.
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After all, how big of a blip on the radar was the fact that basically the same thing was done in Ohio before the GOP found the loophole in Wisconsin?
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Answer: not much of one at all.
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This is a full frontal assault by Republicans against anybody who isn’t like them: white, rich, and empowered.
Yeah, I agree with John; leaving the state brought way more attention to the issue than if they’d stayed. There was a media blitz, and Wisconsin Republicans will pay the price in the next election.
I’m sorry, too, Peter, but you are literally the only person I’ve seen yet who is blaming the Democrats for not staying around to “slug it out,” thinking that there was a tactical advantage to it.
I can appreciate your frustration at the Democratic Party in general for not taking any principled stands, but staying for the vote and dying a quiet death is the exact opposite of what was necessary. If the fourteen Democrats hadn’t bailed from the vote, I have sincere doubts that this story would have gotten the national exposure it did, allowed the people to mobilize, held out the (ultimately futile) hopes for negotiation, exposed Walker’s multiple hypocracies, discovered the other hidden clauses in his budget bills (like the unsupervised sale of assets), emphasized the needs for recalls, and, not to put too blunt a point on it, gotten your attention for you to comment on it in the first place.
That being said, as much as Walker is a breathing pussbag, there is a defensible argument in that the Democrats had an obligation to vote whether or not they had a chance to win. Even though Walker needed to be exposed, that doesn’t entirely negate the idea that every legistator is only responsible for his own vote. If the people can’t even remember the last decade and what the Republicans did to this country, then the old adage that, “You deserve the government you get” holds water. If people keep forgetting that Republicans (the political party, not individual conservatives, people, so settle down) couldn’t care less about average people and just continue voting them into office, then the people are just inviting this crap over and over again.
The fact that there is wording in our country’s name and Constitution that can be compared with wording associated with unions does not mean that whereas the former is a given, that therefore, so is the latter. The country was formed, and its constitution written, in order to secure rights and freedoms for individuals that could not be taken away by the unilateral dogma of a single ruler. This is not the same thing as what unions do. There’s a big difference between securing basic civil freedoms and trying to pressure or force your employer or other employees to do what you want them to do.
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In theory, employees banding together to achieve mutual goals sound like a good idea, but the restrict the freedom of employers to hire who they want to hire, make it harder to fire bad employees, restrict potential employees to obtain gainful employment if they’re not part of the union, and/or force those employees to join the union and pay their fees if do get hired, and can become insider monopolies.
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Peter David: For all I know, it’s a First Amendment issue.
Luigi Novi: It isn’t.
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Expressing an opinion or idea is not the same thing as bargaining for labor conditions, much less being able to tell your employer what to do, barring other potential employees or charging them fees, or forcing the government to pass legislation to make these things law.
The 1stAmm freedom to peacefully assemble has been interpreted as a freedom to associate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Freedom_of_association
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John, they’re not talking about the right to protest. They’re talking about collective bargaining.
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And it’s not a 1st amendment issue.
It’s not a First Amendment issue yet because no one’s argued it as such. I’m saying it would be interesting to see it approached from that direction.
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PAD
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I’m really not sure how that could be argued though. Having collective bargaining stripped from them doesn’t remove their ability to bargain individually or speak s individuals and it doesn’t ban them from protesting as a group in a manner similar to what we saw this last week. All it does is basically say that the negotiations made by one do not go into effect for all.
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Teacher A can still go in with evidence of higher than average performance and negotiate for a raise. The difference now is that Teacher A’s raise doesn’t automatically raise the salaries of Teachers B-Z. There’s no abridgment of free speech that I can really figure out here. The new law doesn’t even really forbid the state from entering into negotiations that would be for the group rather than just an individual. It simply means that negotiations are no longer automatically for a group rather than just an individual.
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Collective bargaining has its advantages to be sure and there are certain levels of security in it for employees as well. I’m just not sure how you could possibly argue that the removal of it constitutes a violation of free speech.
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John: The 1stAmm freedom to peacefully assemble has been interpreted as a freedom to associate.
I understand the five individual freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment, John.
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I’m saying no one is violating their rights by saying they can’t bargain collectively when negotiating for labor conditions with their boss.
Why we have labor unions: the history of labor throughout the industrial revolution. If you want to see what life for the working man or woman would be like without unions, or at least the threat of them, just peruse the history of the 19th century. You can say all you want that most employers would pay reasonable wages, require workers to work only reasonable hours,and provide safe working conditions because to do so is in the interests of good business, but history (and current events in much of the world abroad) clearly demonstrates that in so thinking you would be dead wrong.
Actually, the courts will probably strike it down.
The Democrats ran because if the vote was called, it was going to pass. Period. The Repubs had more than enough votes. However, the vote couldn’t be called without a quorum because it was a law dealing with fiscal matters, and they needed at least one Dem for that. By leaving the state they prevented the vote from being called in the first place. What the Repubs did was remove all the language from the law that dealt with fiscal matters, then they didn’t need the quorum. The reason the law will probably be struck down is that Gov. Walker has been saying since the beginning that the law is necessary to balance the budget, making it a fiscal matter whether there is any wording to that effect in the law or not, meaning the vote was illegal.
That’s the key issue here other than the final result (which I’m not happy about). The only options here now are (a) Gov. Walker was clearly lying through his teeth throughout the process, which can and should be exploited politically; or (b) the law *is* fiscal in nature, in which case it should be struck down at the first court challenge.
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I agree with PAD in that the Democrats should have known a loophole would be found, but I’m also intrigued to see what’s to come after this.
If it’s a first amendment issue I expect it would have come up by now. Wisconsin simply joins a large number of states that limits or denies state workers the right to have the same kind of unions that workers in the private sector do.
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For that matter, where is the outrage over the fact that most federal workers can’t have those unions either? Is Obama a union busting thug for not allowing all those workers to organize?
Federal workers should have job protection, too, same as state employees. It’s called AFSCME, and it’s there for a reason, Bill.
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Employers, like it or not, will wind up fûçkìņg their employees in the name of The Bottom Line. Because that’s what it all boils down to. Unions are there to prevent that. To stand up for the rights of their membership. To get them a good wage, health care, and job security. Employers don’t like unions, and the government is an employer. Hey, let’s stomp down the union, we can get more money for ourselves!
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And another thing is, the unions traditionally vote Democrat. Break up the unions, Dems lose support. Or so the GOP thinks.
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As to big business, think those corporate trusts and big banks like TR way back in the last century? “Trust-busting Teddy Roosevelt” made a lotta enemies, and I swear on my mother’s grave, if I had a TARDIS, I’d go get his ášš now and run him for president.
This is probably the wrong day to be singing a paean to unions, given that a very prominent union just walked away from negotiations where the worst offer they’d been extended would have divided $3,500,000,000 among 1700 people. Why negotiate when you can sue and possibly score treble damages?
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I’m not saying that either the State of Wisconsin or the NFL owners are angels. (The NFL owners got a little too slick in their last set of TV deals, for instance.) I am saying that a labor negotiation is a deal where each self-interested party, whether capital or labor, tries to maximize its own benefits. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong. I’m not opposed to the existence of unions. I am opposed to unions doing dumb things, and I am opposed to members of the public reflexively endorsing them as though each and every union were fighting robber barons on behalf of anthracite coal workers. Employers will fight for their bottom line. But that’s exactly what the unions do as well. Why should the rest of us give a rat’s ášš which side wins?
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The problem with this measure is that it takes away one side’s ability to negotiate on some parts of the deal. That’s troubling. Speaking as a state employee who gets screwed roughly every time a budget passes in Raleigh, I sympathize.
I am a federal employee, and we ARE unionized. Federal employees are not required to join the union (and in practice, the union will intercede in your interests, if you request it, if you’re a member or not, so really it’s a matter of choosing to pay dues). I don’t know for certain if every federal agency is so organized, but my agency is.
The agencies subsumed into Homeland Security by the Patriot Act aren’t – union-busting was one of the driving forces behind it.
I know that the employees of the Census, which is part of the Department of Commerce, at least those who work for the decennial census, are not unionized. While the tenure for such employees is eight weeks, some of them work for three months, or even a year or two.
I believe TSA employees are trying to get unionized still. That’s one instance where I’m heavily against unionizing, because if they get unionized, it will be that much harder to get rid of TSA as a whole. And TSA needs the boot.
I know that some federal employees have unions…but they don;t have the right to strike and they can’t force members to join and, as Gray points out, some will give the same benefits to all, members or not) so the union is all but defanged and powerless. That’s the law and I just find it ironic when senators and congressmen bluster about the value of unions when their own sector of the workforce is not allowed–by laws they passed–to enjoy those benefits!
That’s a stretch even for you, Bill, trying to paint Obama as busting something that doesn’t exist.
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The sainted Reagan, on the other hand..
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PAD
Well, let me pull back on my characteristic stretch. So Obama is not actively busting federal unions, he is simply enforcing the situation that prevents them from unionizing. Or at least he has been. I expect this Wisconsin thing has shown him the light and we will be hearing calls for the organization of federal workers in 3, 2, 1…
You have to remember that they can trounce the Republicans in the next election and change the law. No court outlawed anything so it can always be changed back to the way it was.
Well, you know this thing has spread to Michigan…
Rog, it’s gathering steam in Tennessee, too. Not sure what if anything my local Democrats are doing about it.
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At a rally downtown the other day, a union rep stood up and said what I perceive to be truth: “You know what’s next. After the teachers, they’ll come after the firefighters. Then law enforcement…” And the crowd went berserk.
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No, it’s not about the First Amaendment, but it’s wrong. And this is the same thing the Nazis did in the late Twenties. Hitler emasculated the unions as soon as he got in office. Nothing is a bigger threat to a dictator than an organized populace.
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Do we really have to have the Hitler/Nazi stuff thrown around this early in the thread?
Hitler built express highways, too. And he was a vegetarian. There’s no bigger threat to a dictator than carnivores in slow cars.
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I hate to break it to you, but a labor union isn’t an organized populace. It’s a special interest group responsible for maximizing the economic benefits its members obtain in return for their labor. No, the real organized populace is to be found in political parties. In fact, the largest single party (by number of members/affiliates) in the nation is adamantly opposed to this measure. Why I’ll be they… oh, they left town. Never mind.
As well as Ohio. Ohio, though, has the referendum, meaning that we will likely be voting on ours in November, or maybe even as early as May.
I meant to add that I didn’t see what the big deal was. I understand the unions were upset, but their legislators were trounced in the previous election. If they feel the change in the law is so bad, put the pressure on and organize and get your people back in the seats to vote to change it back. That is the beauty of living in America. If it proves to be a mistake making this change, then they can always reverse course.
The people will decide come the next election.
I would agree with you if not for one point. The Repubs didn’t run on a platform of getting rid of the unions. They waited until after they had their majority and said, “By the way, if you’re a union who didn’t support us in the last election, you’re out.” They specifically exempted the Police, Fire and Postal workers from this law, because they traditionally vote R instead of D.
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No, they exempted them because, as one of (I believe) Walker’s people put it, police and firefighters going on strike would have been a PR disaster for them. Much easier to bully teachers.
Postal workers are Federal. the state has no jurisdiction over their contracts.
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Peter, it’s rare that I’m left wondering if you’ve even bothered reading up on a subject at all after reading one of your opinion pieces, but this is definitely one of those rare times. Your header seriously reads like you saw a headline about this this morning and that’s about all you knew of it before writing.
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The Democrats left because their presence would have allowed the vote and they did not have the numbers to vote the bill down. What they did created media attention and gave the various people affected by the potential legislation to protest (which also created media attention.) However, I won’t even get into the issue of whether or not the people cheering their decision to stall this way would be screaming their heads off in fits of anger at the Republicans if they pulled that stunt.
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“They should have realized the GOP would eventually find a loophole to ram it through. What they should have done was launch a full blown media blitz while offering arguments to everyone and anyone who would listen.”
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They actually have been talking to the media about it for days now. But where exactly are they going to do the blitz? Most talk radio is Conservative, Fox News was too busy calling the teachers “thugs” and gleefully repeating every lie Walker’s people told them and CNN was too busy talking to their own talking heads most of the time. That pretty much left MSNBC and progressive talkers on the radio. But they were trying to get their side out.
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As for the legality of it; the concept is legal. Everything else is questionable. Walker walked and likely crossed a few ethical lines early on, he gave the state police orders that were both illegal and in violation of the state’s constitution and the bill reportedly was passed in a manner that violated the legally required due process for how they did it. I’m sure that there will be legal challenges against it very, very soon.
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As for what it all means? The Democrats should be thankful for this. Walker and the Republicans overplayed their hand here and misread the tea leaves more than a little bit. The next election in that state will not be kind to them and whatever they’ve done and will do can then be undone. If not, if I’m wrong in that assessment, then the people of that state got what they wanted in the last election and in the actions of their elected officials and they’ll vote Republican next election.
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Don’t think I’m wrong though.
I’ve been following it the entire time, Jerry. What’s bugged me about the way the Democrats handled this from the get-go was that I watched the proceedings and thought, “What’s the end game here?” I know WHY they did it, but as a long term plan, it seemed unsustainable. I was worried that all it would do was provide the GOP time to find a way to do what they wanted…which it did.
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The problem for me is that, the way I see it, it’s not isolated. Democrats seem to suffer from an overwhelming desire to be liked. Say what you will about Republicans, but they absolutely don’t give a crap if people like them or not. In fact, they seem to thrive on being hated, like wrestling villains. Even when the Democrats are in the majority of a situation, they seem to find themselves stymied by the GOP more often than not. And when the GOP is in the majority, they simply steamroll over the opposition. I find that frustrating.
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Believe me, I would dearly love to see the GOP suffer in the next election in Wisconsin. But I have a feeling that won’t be the case.
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Would love to be wrong, though.
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PAD
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Okay, I can see where you were going with how you wrote it now that you’ve clarified your frustrations with the end game question. It just didn’t jell for me before for some reason.
PAD, I think you’re absolutely right about the Dem’s main weakness. I think the Dem’s insecurity and desire to be liked comes from a lack of conviction in their own ideals.
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For decades now the Republican Party has been moving steadly to the right, becoming ever more radical. The Dems never knew how to react to that. They seem to just desperately run after the GOP right-wise, and become more and more centrist. So the whole political spectrum shifts to the right.
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The GOP turned “Liberal” in a dirty word. What is the Dem’s reaction? “Oh my God, no! We’re not that liberal! Really, I swear, you gotta believe me, we’re not so liberal!”
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Instead of taking pride in being Liberal and positioning themselves as the opposite viewpoint to the GOP’s conservatism, they more often than not try to appear centrist and end up appearing weak to both their opponents and would-be supporters.
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The irony? The dude that tries so hard to be liked by everybody always ends up despised by everybody.
Sadly, this is one time where I hate having to agree with PAD. There are many issues, of old (banning flag burning) and new (repealing Obamacare), where Republicans know they don’t have the votes for, but they’ll put it out there, vote for it, and exclaim loudly that they’ll keep fighting for it until they get it. Conversely, many Democrats seem ready to either give up or make very weak concessions, as when Obama took out many things from healthcare that Republicans were against, in exchange for… no Republican votes.
Of course compromise is a good thing, but too much of it can make you weak and a pushover. One real problem I have with Obama is that there doesn’t seem to be an issue or principle he’ll go to the mat for, something he’ll risk losing but will go down swinging to the bitter end to try and win. (This has a chilling effect on Democrats in the Congress, who wonder why they should back Obama’s controversial plans if he won’t support them when the going gets tough.)
And, as I often do in these political threads, here’s a quote from THE WEST WING, said by Toby Ziegler: “One victory in a year stinks in the life of an administration. But it’s not the ones we lose that bother me, Leo, it’s the ones we don’t suit up for.”
Ultimately, I think this union issue will work for the Democrats. Republicans said it was a fiscal issue, then rejected the fiscal deal they wanted when the unions offered it as a concession. Republicans claimed the Democrats tried to use sneaky procedural tricks to get what they wanted, then the Republicans used the same type of tricks here. Republicans claim the Democrats engage in class warfare, and the Republicans worked hard painting union members as rich people getting special treatment. And by and large, Americans are against taking away rights from people, which is what this bill came down to.
The “end game” (which is by no means ended) was for the progressive organizers in the state to use the time that the 14 Democrats bought them in order to get recall petitions going against the 8 Republicans in the Senate who were vulnerable to recalls…either to replace them with Democrats who would be “nay” votes, or to pressure Republicans into changing their votes in exchange for dropping the recall efforts. It didn’t get play on CNN, because they had pontificating to do, but it was a major part of the gameplan.
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And it still is. Recall efforts are still underway, and we might see a very big surprise for the Republicans who decided to follow the marching orders of their rich backers over the people of Wisconsin.
Oh, I think they did figure out the end game. The Republicans, who just spent an entire election cycle calling a healthcare reform bill which, while a bit on the long side, still sat in both houses of Congress for over a year, was being “rammed down our throats”, found a way to ram a truly unpopular bill down the throats of their constituency in less than a month. A bill which basically tells workers (state workers are still workers) what they can make and what they can and cannot do with their money, after the Republicans (especially the Tea Party) just spent an entire election cycle complaining that the government shouldn’t be in the business of telling people what they can make and what they can and cannot do with their money.
In short, the Democrats had the endgame planned from the start, and if the voters can’t parse the blatant hypocrisy that the Republican Party has just shown, they never will.
This situation has put me in mind of a classic scene from The Simpsons.
It’s the early 20th century in Mr. Burns “Atom Smashing Plant”(for which they were using sledge hammers). A worker is ‘caught’ with ‘atoms’ in his pocket. Burns orders: “Take him away!”
Worker: “You can’t treat the American worker like this! One day we’ll unionize, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we’ll turn lazy and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!”
Burns:”The Japanese? Those sandal wearing Goldfish tenders?”
Burns(present day): “If only I had listened to that boy, instead of walling him up in an abandoned coke oven.”
Oh please, it’s not a ‘right’. Working in the private sector, I don’t have this ‘right.’I either accept the salary offered me, or leave. Simple at that. And hey, I don’t want them ‘bargaining’ over that salary, because that salary is my tax money! If you want to be in a union in the private sector where you can negotiate over private enterprise money, fine, but not with my tax-payer money.
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“Oh please, it’s not a ‘right’. Working in the private sector, I don’t have this ‘right.’I either accept the salary offered me, or leave. Simple at that. And hey, I don’t want them ‘bargaining’ over that salary, because that salary is my tax money! If you want to be in a union in the private sector where you can negotiate over private enterprise money, fine, but not with my tax-payer money.”
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Fine. We’ll work out a special deal just so your tax money isn’t going to any of these public workers. But, you in return can home school you kids from now on, you don’t get 911 services (police, fire, rescue) and stay the hëll off of any roads that public tax dollars pay for and pay for the wages of the people working on them.
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Have fun sitting in your house.
I promise you, those state workers are not paid overmuch. Do any cursory web search and find out what state employee pay rates are per grade; you can make MUCH more working in the private sector, but your job is likely more secure. What collective bargaining has gotten for state/federal workers has less to do with pay and more to do with benefits (healthcare options, flextime work schedules, retirement, etc.) and policies regarding under what circumstances employment may be lost (trust me, they STILL try to fire people who get hurt and suffer an extended illness).
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“I promise you, those state workers are not paid overmuch. Do any cursory web search and find out what state employee pay rates are per grade; you can make MUCH more working in the private sector, but your job is likely more secure”
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Hëll, not only do private sector workers make more than their public sector counterparts, but Republicans have found that out repeatedly yet continue to do dûmbášš things over and over again. George Allen, my state’s contribution to “The Most Embarrassingly stupid Politicians Ever” list, did some things that should have been live and learn moments for the Virginia Republicans and Republicans elsewhere during his time as Governor.
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He decided that various state agencies were employing too many people and that they were paid too much. There were layoffs and some “highly” paid employees were offered five-and-out deals if they were close to retirement. Within a year, some of the various agencies were having issues doing what they were supposed to be doing since they were understaffed. Allen had the solution. Several state agencies hired outside contractors from the private sector.
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Care to guess what happened? The private sector help charged more for the help than the former employees cost the state. And one of the funniest things that happened with the situation was that a few of the private sector experts helping out were actually former state employees. By the end of Gilmore’s time as Governor, the manpower in several agencies was closer to what it was before Allen came into office.
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We’re also one of the handful of states that have turned our intelligence technology (fancy term for computer operations) over to private sector companies rather than keep it totally in house. By the time we officially handed over VITA, several other states were taking theirs back or reworking the deals because their private sector “solutions” were costing them more money than before and there were efficiency issues.
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But, of course, we’ll keep repeating various idiot’s mistakes over and over again because talking points often trump facts for many.
Gray,
Sorry, but you DON’T live in California, do you? In my little city, they have done extensive layoffs, and then hired outside consultants to provide the services. Why? Because it saves LOADS of money. Now, if you just look at salaries vs. cost, it looks like it cost more, but if you compare total costs to total costs, the private companies are a real bargain! The unions have kept salaries in line (i.e. just a LITTLE higher than private sector) because the real money was in the benefits. Workers retire (often young!) with retirement benefits as great, or greater, than when they were working.
Although, that salaries not rising does have one small exception – union management!
And of course, when they need to reduce the budget, do they eliminate all those hundreds of administrators and staffs in the capitol? Of course not! No one would care if they cut those! Cut the teachers, fire and police, they will be noticed!
You absolutely have the right to unionize at your workplace, if you want and if you can get your co-workers to agree. You’ve chosen not to exercise that right, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have it, nor that other people are cheating by exercising that right.
At this point with everything they are attempting to push through, from depriving people of health care, bringing back child slave labor, busting unions… In other words doing everything they can to further enrich the rich and rape the little guy, conservatives as a hole have become a morally bankrupt movement controlled by the puppet masters who are the 2% rich. They really don’t care about what happens to anyone or anything except themselves.
Today we watched Japan get swarmed under by tidal waves, thank god for our warning systems but hey, if the conservatives have their way… Say good by to our tsunami warning system:
Tucked into the House Republican continuing resolution are provisions cutting the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, including the National Weather Service, as well as humanitarian and foreign aid.
Presented as part of a larger deficit reduction package, each cut could be pitched as tough-choice, belt tightening on behalf of the GOP. But advocates for protecting those funds pointed to the crisis in Japan as evidence that without the money, disaster preparedness and relief would suffer.
The rule of law and the people do not matter to the conservatives, it’s about pushing through an corrupt ideology that will in the end only benefit one small group of people.
The conservative movement has become a morally bankrupt, narcissistic cesspool. Frankly they are starting to look like the Ferengi from Star Trek, stomping on anyone and everyone they can as evidenced by the teaparty and the Republicans.
Peter it’s not about we the people, it’s about cronyism and monetary transfer to the upper 2%. They will lie, cheat, steal to make people like the Koch Brothers richer and they don’t care who they stomp on to do it. The clause selling the WI power plants to the Koch brothers (who btw are advertising for managers before they even own them) has been reinserted into the bill that passed. The court system is no refuge for moderate/liberals, the Supreme court is now dominated by crooks who gave the Foreign Chamber of Commerce the right to buy elections with foreign money.
They don’t even care about themselves, if it costs money. The House republicans are attempting to butcher the program that runs the tsunami warning system in the Pacific, the one that proved to be a major benefit just today. That along with much of our weather forecasting system that warns us of tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards…
WI is only a symptom for a far larger problem. The 14 Dems did only what they could. It’s questionable what was done is ever legal, but as i said don’t count on the courts to protect us. What we need is for the next election the public to come out and vote! The majority of liberals and moderates stayed home last year while the teabaggers turned out in droves. Their actions can be overturned as soon as 2012, the question is have We The People woken up enough to take back our country from the overly rich!
Gee, BJ, stereotype much? How many moonbat web sites did you have to visit to put together all those BS talking points?
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Let’s just go after one of them, just for fun. The Koch Brothers spent a tiny fraction as much money on the last WI election as the unions did, who spent about seven million trying to defeat the GOP governor who won. The “no-lease” power and heating plants are white elephants — old, dirty, inefficient, and arguably worthless. The Kochs have specifically stated they have absolutely no interest in owning or operating them. They’re currently exempt from clean air standards (I forget if that’s because they’re state-owned and operated, or they were grandfathered), but that goes away once they change hands. The new owner will have to spend a LOT to get them up to legal spec, and even then they’re on the downside of their useful life. Think of them as former cruisers at a police auction — we’re not talking Lincolns here.
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J.
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And here’s another example of a one of the “mindless conservatives in the population” who can be counted on to “close their eyes, cover their ears and yell loudly whenever the facts were presented to them.”
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Think Energy Group’s ad for plant managers for new positions opening up in just a little bit in Wisconsin. (They’re a part of Koch industries.)
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http://www.thinkenergygroup.com/think.nsf/J/84239?Opendocument
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And here’s some info (complete with sources and links) about the particular bit in question being placed back in the bill (or being bait and switched somewhat illegally.)
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http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/between-wisconsin-senate-and-assembly-vote-
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“16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).”
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That’s the passage in question. It was pulled out before and then quickly and quietly slipped back in the other day by Walker’s people. It would allow no-bid sales even if it was against the public’s interest and is the type of thing that invites cronyism and corruption.
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And, of course, it’s just a coincidence that the Koch Brothers were putting out ads for jobs in plants before anyone even knew that Walker was sneaking the passage back into the bill and that the Koch Brothers (phone pals of Walker’s as I’m sure you’ve heard) just happened to be big donors/supporters of Walker’s who happen to be in the habit of late of buying up power plants on the cheap when they can play it up with a political crony.
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“Elections have consequences.”
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The Wisconsin Republicans ran on a “get the state budget under control” platform, and specifically mentioned state employees. So they didn’t specify “remove most work conditions besides salary and a couple of other things.” So what. Obama ran opposing health reform with an individual mandate and opposing gay marriage, and look how those turned out.
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The Democrats lost in November, and their response was unprecedented and as un-democratic as can be. The elected representatives fled the state, abandoning their jobs and their duties to their constituents, and sent in their mobs and thugs to occupy and trash the state Capitol. The idea was if they can’t win by the voters, they’d try to intimidate the Republicans to forgo their mandate. (Note there have been several assaults of Republican legislators, including a shoving match in a restaurant and an attack on a bus, as well as numerous death threats.)
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As PAD noted, the Dems had a good tactic, but a crappy strategy. They had no end game planned out — their absence could forestall a budget vote, but left every other matter open to be voted upon. Further, they figured that their thugs would intimidate the GOP into compromising, so they could return in triumph. Instead, they’ve locked themselves out of the state, because as soon as they return, they get hauled in to the Capitol to do their gøddámņëd jobs, as they swore to do when they took office, and — BAM! — there’s a quorum and — BAM! — there go the budget-related bills.
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The really fun part is the precedents that have been set. Now the Republican members of the US Senate can now go on foreign junkets and deny the Democrats a quorum to do anything. Tea Parties now have implicit permission to occupy and take over state buildings as part of their protests, as well as to trash them during the occupations. (Prior Tea Party events have left their sites cleaner than when they arrived, unlike the Wisconsin thugs, who stuck the state with an estimated seven-million-dollar cleanup bill.)
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Completely OT, PAD, but did you know your Bacon Number is 2? You were in Oblivion and Oblivion II with Irwin Keys, who was in Friday The 13th with Kevin Bacon. You’re also connected to him through Jimmie F. Skaggs, who was also in both Oblivions and The Hollow Man.
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J.
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“Tea Parties now have implicit permission to occupy and take over state buildings as part of their protests, as well as to trash them during the occupations. (Prior Tea Party events have left their sites cleaner than when they arrived, unlike the Wisconsin thugs, who stuck the state with an estimated seven-million-dollar cleanup bill.)“
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That’s what honest people call a lie. That’s a lie Walker’s people (not being very honest or law abiding it seems) told deliberately because they knew it would get headlines and play in the Conservative media PR machine that was working for them and gleefully repeated on Fox News as many times as possible. It’s been proven to be a lie and even Walker finally had his people (as quietly as possible) walk back the lie a full week ago. Of course, they knew that they could walk it back now and still have Fox News and the more mindless conservatives in the population repeat it endlessly for years now and close their eyes, cover their ears and yell loudly whenever the facts were presented to them.
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117409458.html
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State officials back off Capitol damage claim
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“Madison – Officials charged with overseeing the state Capitol Friday backpedaled sharply from their estimate – delivered in a high-profile court case only the day before – that demonstrators did more than $7 million in damage to the building and grounds during the tumultuous yet peaceful protests that erupted Feb. 15.”
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The news article also goes over the ways that the bogus number was cooked up. News has been out there for a full week now, but feel free to keep repeating the lie.
Hmm. What’s truly more un-democratic?
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The fact that the union was more than willing to compromise and Walker utterly refused to even discuss it? That Walker’s sole objective was to destroy the union to harm Democrats, on the pretense of helping the state budget? And that in the end, the only way it ‘passed’ was because they simply gave up the pretense?
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Or the Democrats who left the state to show that the minority wasn’t going to get stomped over so easily?
Stepped right into that one, Craig.
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Why should Walker negotiate with the unions? He was discussing proposed legislation — he should have been negotiating with the Democrats in the legislature, but they chose to flee the state and refuse to actually debate.
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Your admission that Walker should have negotiated with the unions is essentially an admission that the unions own the Democrats, that they’re the real powers behind that party, and the Democrats will go along with what their masters tell them is acceptable.
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As I said, “elections have consequences.” But we’re talking about the Democrats here — when they lose at the ballot box, they try to find other ways to get their way to spite the will of the people. Since their Brute Squads apparently failed, there are lawsuits and recall petitions.
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New Democratic Party motto: “The people have spoken — the bášŧárdš.”
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J.
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“Your admission that Walker should have negotiated with the unions is essentially an admission that the unions own the Democrats, that they’re the real powers behind that party, and the Democrats will go along with what their masters tell them is acceptable.”
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Do you ever even try to live in the real world?
Do you ever even try to live in the real world?
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Why bother when fantasy is so much more interesting?
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And no, Jay, I didn’t step in anything. Walker’s legislation had jack šhìŧ to do with actually saving money for the state. It was about destroying the unions, which is why he refused to even discuss it.
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Real democracy involves discussion and compromise. Meanwhile, Walker, with the Koch brothers’ arms shoved entirely up his áršë, is playing dictator.
>>The problem for me is that, the way I see it, it’s not isolated. Democrats seem to suffer from an overwhelming desire to be liked. Say what you will about Republicans, but they absolutely don’t give a crap if people like them or not. In fact, they seem to thrive on being hated, like wrestling villains. Even when the Democrats are in the majority of a situation, they seem to find themselves stymied by the GOP more often than not. And when the GOP is in the majority, they simply steamroll over the opposition. I find that frustrating.<>Believe me, I would dearly love to see the GOP suffer in the next election in Wisconsin. But I have a feeling that won’t be the case.<>Fine. We’ll work out a special deal just so your tax money isn’t going to any of these public workers. But, you in return can home school you kids from now on<<
Better off home schooling kids. Thanks to teacher's unions, this country's children are getting dumber by the year.
I don’t think that it is the fault of the teacher’s unions that the country’s children are getting dumber every year.
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Oh, don’t misunderstand me. I have 0 love for the teacher’s unions. In Ohio, the lowest paid employee of the teacher’s union is paid more than the highest paid teacher (as of 2007, anyway.)
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But, I place the blame for the lack of education in this country on a) the fact that text books are edited by commitee, not designed to actually instruct, b) government money for public schools go to improve the best schools first, leaving the schools in poor neighborhoods stagnant, c) a lack of properly trained teachers for the positions available, which I think is due to d) low pay for teachers in general.
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Theno
Even after this bill, WI public workers STILL have more collective bargaining rights, (and rights in general), than federal workers. Where’s the outcry for the federal workers? Have you been calling for Obama’s head the past couple years because federal workers don’t have collective bargaining?
The GOP didn’t “ram this through.” It was debated, and then the Democrats thumbed their noses at the democratic process and ran away. WEEKS later, since the Dems were not coming back To Do Their Jobs, this part of the bill was voted on separately. The idea was even brought up by the Dem mayor of Milwaukee, who was Scott Walker’s opponent for governor.
I will remind everyone not only how Obamacare was passed, which “had to be passed so we could find out what’s in it,” and which they are Still figuring out what’s in it with automated funding and double-counting of 500 billion dollars and other ridiculousness, but I will also remind you of how the “stimulus” bill was completely rammed through without anyone even reading it, and I will also remind you of the 3 Billion Dollars in tax increases the Dems in WI rammed through in 36 hours in 2009. It’s no wonder WI turned into a red state.
Collective bargaining is not a right! Federal workers don’t have it, and even Democrat hero FDR said it’s a very bad idea. Let’s be clear about something: private unions are fine. This is about public unions.
The AVERAGE compensation for a Milwaukee teacher next year will be over $100,000 for a nine-month school year. Now go look up how well Milwaukee eighth-graders can read. Oh, but “this is all for the children!” Yah.
The AVERAGE compensation for a Milwaukee teacher next year will be over $100,000 for a nine-month school year.
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To go back to my Usenet days: “Post proof or retract.”
Milwaukee’s own newspaper good enough for you? http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/04/maciver-institute/maciver-institute-says-average-annual-salary-and-b/
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“The conservative think tank said the average annual compensation for a Milwaukee Public Schools teacher would exceed $100,000 in 2011. As of July 1, 2011, according to the school district, that figure will be $101,091.
MacIver’s claim is True.”
Yes it is, thanks.
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I do think there’s a bit of a dodge there mixing benefits together with salary — hëll, by that margin I think *I* make over 100K and it certainly doesn’t feel like it — but I’ll certainly agree that you posted evidence. Again, thanks.
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The National Industrial Recovery Act Of 1933 signed into law by FDR-
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SEC. 7. (a) Every code of fair competition, agreement, and license approved, prescribed, or issued under this title shall contain the following conditions: (1) That employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and shall be free from the interference restraint, or coercion of employers of labor, or their agents, in the designation of such representatives or in self-organization or in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection;(2) that no employee and no one seeking employment shall be required as a condition of employment to join any company union or to refrain from joining, organizing, or assisting a labor organization of his own choosing; and (3) that employers shall comply with the maximum hours of labor, minimum rates of pay, and. other conditions of employment, approved or. prescribed by the President.
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Roosevelt said this on October 31, 1936 in a (I believe) campaign speech-
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“Of course we will continue to seek to improve working conditions for the workers of America–to reduce hours over-long, to increase wages that spell starvation, to end the labor of children, to wipe out sweatshops. Of course we will continue every effort to end monopoly in business, to support collective bargaining, to stop unfair competition, to abolish dishonorable trade practices. For all these we have only just begun to fight.”
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Roosevelt’s speech delivered at the Chickamauga Dam Celebration of 1940-
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“This national holiday – Labor Day – has been appropriately selected, because in the miracle that man has wrought, labor has played a vital role. In all of those seven years, in heat and in cold, men have drilled and blasted through solid rock, they have poured ton after ton of concrete and they have moved mountains of earth. They have worked with the strength of their hands, and they have operated complicated machinery with every form of modern skill. Never once in these years, in this the biggest consolidated construction job ever undertaken directly by the national Government, has there been a substantial interruption to the continuance of your labors. This Dam, all the dams built in this short space of years, stand as a monument to the productive partnership between management and labor, between citizens of all kinds working together in the public weal. Collective bargaining and efficiency have proceeded hand in hand. It is noteworthy that the splendid new agreement between organized labor and the Tennessee Valley Authority begins with the words “The public interest in an undertaking such as the TVA always being paramount …”
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It is appropriate, therefore, that we recognize this signal achievement on the day when the whole nation pays tribute to labor’s contribution to the democracy that we are not preparing to defend. To all of you, therefore – all of you who have contributed to make these structures possible throughout this beautiful Valley of the Tennessee – I extend the Nation’s thanks. “
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FDR signed other bills into law that explicitly supported collective bargaining and spoke in support of it in more than one speech.
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Here’s a hint that a lot of Conservatives needed to figure out a loooonnng time ago. Just because Glenn Beck (amongst other talkers on the Right) says it’s so doesn’t make it true. Actually, if anything, that’s probably a sure sign that it’s not.
“Let’s be clear about something: private unions are fine. This is about public unions.”
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Why?
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No, seriously, why? If Public unions needlessly drive up the cost of government, don’t Private unions do the same thing for all other goods and services? In what possible way can collective bargaining be “bad” when it applies to Teachers, but be “fine” when the right is given to Teamsters? Are Government employees not deserving of the same rights as allowed the Private Sector? Should those people that choose a life of public service be treated as second class citizens?
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Deny the value of Unions all you want. The point is debateable, and in fact I don’t support them 100%. But don’t try to say that one type of Union is always Bad, but others are OK. Especially when Police and Fire still have their rights!
“had to be passed so we could find out what’s in it,”
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Alternately, people could have – I don’t know – read it, maybe?
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I mean, I read it. Once I shrank it down from 36 point font to 12 and re-did the margins to 1 inch, it was less than 150 pages. I think it took me three hours to read.
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And, since you are all for reminding people of things, may I remind you that the bank bailout was signed by President Bush in 2008? It didn’t start paying out until 2009, which is why there were so many rules in it that the Democratic Senate and President said they didn’t like. They hadn’t passed it.
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And, I’ll likewise remind you that the budget increased by 3 billion dollars not because Obama went on a spending spree. But, because he stopped hiding expendatures in Iraq and Afganistan that Bush had kept off the budget in previous years.
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Theno
I’m really really waiting for some Republican governor and/or representative who wants to stop all the collective bargaining and public unions to come out and say “Not only the teachers, but let’s clear out the Police, Firefighters and EMTs rights to bargain.”
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At least in Oklahoma, that would be their swan song. Never elected to a public office ever again.
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And if they’re really doing it for fiscal purposes, that’s what they should do. But it will never happen.
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Oh, and by the by, if they’re really wanting to save money, let’s start taking away a lot of the perks our reps and govs get. Why should they get better health insurance than the average voter?
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TAC
Everyone remember the Arizona shooting mere months ago? The Left and the media (same thing?) talked up a storm about “hateful rhetoric” from the Right, etc? Then it turns out the shooter was a liberal! d’oh! Anyway, this fight in WI has shown (again) the Left’s true colors. If they don’t get their way, they show contempt for the democratic process, they run away, they spew hate… where’s Obama calling out “the tolerant Left” putting gun sights and Hitler mustaches on Gov. Walker? Is he going to say something now that the 18 WI Republican senators have received death threats to not only them but their families?
And then there’s how those people trashed the capitol building. The Tea Party comes in and doesn’t even leave a piece of litter on the ground, but “progressives” urinate in the capitol building, deface the expensive marble, etc. And, hey, has the MSM talked up how there aren’t many black people in the crowds of the union protesters and so they must be racist? Nah, didn’t think so.
“Then it turns out the shooter was a liberal!”
It turned out that his ramblings were all about “hate the government” and “don’t trust the government”. Those aren’t very liberal sentiments at all.
“And then there’s how those people trashed the capitol building.”
No, they didn’t. Every report I’ve heard, they’ve kept the place clean, and never hindered the cleaning staff when they entered to do their jobs.
“And, hey, has the MSM talked up how there aren’t many black people in the crowds”
The Corporate Whørë Media hasn’t said ANYTHING about the protests.
Loughner’s own friend(s) said he was liberal. The main point, of course, is that the guy wasn’t a rightwing nutjob (just a nutjob) like the MSM Immediately jumped on for weeks and then suddenly had nothing to say when they realized he wasn’t. And those “target sights” on Palin’s political maps? The same sights and maps Democrats used too! Such double-standards and hypocrisy. Want to see some real “hateful rhetoric?” Put Kill Bush into a search engine and click on Images. But The Tolerant Left did it, so it must be ok.
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They didn’t keep the capitol clean. You can watch videos of workers carefully trying to get the tape from signs off the expensive walls. In one vid, the guy filming says to the cleaning guy, “Looks like you have your work cut out for you.” “Oh yeah.” Heck, they even taped things on and covered up a war memorial inside the building. Very disrespectful.
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Anyone who says the MSM hasn’t said anything about the protests must not watch TV. It’s been a top story for weeks. And, come on, let’s be serious, the MSM constantly went after Tea Party rallies trying to paint them as racist for “lack of black people” even when the crowds would be cheering people like Allen West and Herman Cain. I still don’t understand why “racists” would invite and then cheer for black speakers at their events….
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“Loughner’s own friend(s) said he was liberal.”
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Actually, it turned out that the ‘friend” who is often quoted by conservatives in the media hadn’t spoken to or hung out with Loughner for several years.
Loughner was so liberal that he compared a woman that had an abortion to a terrorist. Plus, he was a fan of Ayn Rand, that great liberal writer.
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But really, ultimately he wasn’t a liberal or a conservative. Like many other infamous lone nuts before him, his politics were inconsistent and little more than an excuse for his madness-induced actions.
Wes, seriously: All the Fox News talking points you’re throwing around were pretty much asked and answered in previous threads. You want to bring up something original? Go to it. Otherwise, please don’t waste peoples’ time.
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PAD
“They didn’t keep the capitol clean. You can watch videos of workers carefully trying to get the tape from signs off the expensive walls. In one vid, the guy filming says to the cleaning guy, “Looks like you have your work cut out for you.” “Oh yeah.” Heck, they even taped things on and covered up a war memorial inside the building. Very disrespectful.”
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Oh, yes. How awful.
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I remember in college having to clean up after Homecoming. Taking down all that tape must have taken, oh, At least 7 hours. And, that was with a full 6 of us Phi Delts working on it.
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The horror of Scotch tape on signs is clearly not to be underestimated.
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Theno
“If they don’t get their way, they show contempt for the democratic process,”
The morally bankrupt conservatives are the only ones who don’t believe int he rule of law! From the law the Conservatives in MI just shoved through, we get governmental dictators:
According to the law, which has already been approved in the House, the governor will be able to declare “financial emergency” in towns or school districts and appoint someone to fire local elected officials, break contracts, seize and sell assets, and eliminate services.
Under the law whole cities or school districts could be eliminated without any public participation or oversight, and amendments designed to provide minimal safeguards and public involvement were voted down.
An amendment to require Emergency Managers to hold monthly public meetings to let people know how they are governing was rejected by Senate Republicans, along with proposals to cap Emergency Manager compensation and require that those appointed to run school districts have some background in education.
Mark Evanier posted this link a while back to Robert Reich’s blog (Clinton’s former Secretary of Labour).
http://robertreich.org/post/3476451774
I’d like to pull out the same money quote that Mark did.
The truth is that while the proximate cause of America’s economic plunge was Wall Street’s excesses leading up to the crash of 2008, its underlying cause — and the reason the economy continues to be lousy for most Americans — is so much income and wealth have been going to the very top that the vast majority no longer has the purchasing power to lift the economy out of its doldrums.
When FOX News says attacks on the rich are class warfare, but is more than happy to attack school teachers (and point whatever Tea Party nut jobs they can in that general direction), when Scott Walker talks about the need to control a $137 million deficit which was mostly caused by a $117 million corporate tax cut (or when he gets around a quorum needed to vote on fiscal matters by braking out the union-busting bill as “non-fiscal”), when corporations are sitting on 2 trillion dollars in cash, when banks are taking near-zero percent interest loans from the Treasury and turning around to buy Treasury bills rather than loaning that money back out — I mean, this is so entirely disingenuous that it makes me sick.
If the nation is broke, then that’s one thing. Let’s talk about shared sacrifice. But if we’re broke because we keep giving money away to the rich, then that’s something else. And even if trickle-down economic theory worked (and the last thirty years of tracking income disparity should put to rest that theory), doesn’t it involve the rich accepting their social responsibilities in that regard? If, however, they insist on being all Darwinian about it, doesn’t that mean that the other 99% of the population has no obligation to not play by the same rules and use whatever legislative means necessary to look out for ourselves?
Everybody is looking out to cut costs. Fine. Deficit control is necessary, and let’s not just throw money away. But if I’m in a household, the best way to control the deficit is likely not to cut costs, but get extra work. And if a business is not doing well, sometimes what’s necessary is not that it’s too large, but that it’s too small. Most economics agree that the economy works bottom up, so the way to control the deficit, long-term, is to take a temporary hit and invest in infrastructure and innovation that also produces the benefit of putting money in the hands of workers who will actually spend it. Spending less and making people more broke isn’t going to get the economy anywhere. Discretionary spending on public services and programs for the poor isn’t tackling the biggest budget issues anyway, and there’s not a Republican or Democrat who doesn’t know that, but I don’t know so few will say it.
Let’s not be crazy by villifying every rich person. They didn’t all get their money the same way. Stephen King is not Mark Zuckerberg, who is not Warren Buffet, who is not Lloyd Blankfein. Some people were enterpreneurs, some people turned themselves into commodities, some people paid their way and made responsible enterprises. (And there’s been a little too much talk about the tax bracket cut-off of $250,000. Look, I have no interest in weeping for you if you make that kind of money, but it’s not people in your immediate bracket that caused American’s problems, and we all need to start looking higher up the ladder.)
The real troublemakers, these are the smarmy jerks who just walked into preexisting companies, using other people’s money, and justified their salaries by using legislative dirty-pool to cut costs, decrease taxes, smother regulation and socialize or externalize economic or environmental damage, all the while cutting themselves the biggest pieces of the pie simply because they have the knife.
With the exception of people like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders (and no, I don’t live in Vermont), there simply aren’t any champions for the middle class anymore. And it doesn’t help anybody unless we start taking our collective anger and pointing it in the right direction. Which means stop actually rewarding the spin artists by buying into their tribal memes, and instead take a hand in our own society by knowing what the issues actually are and calling people to task when they divert from the topic, whether Republican OR Democrat.
Make legistators earn our votes. But that also means we need to earn our RIGHTS to vote.
Sorry for a couple of grammar errors in the above post – I was in a rush, and should have edited better. Hopefully the context is clear enough in those instances. Thanks for your generosity.
Nice piece by Tom Juravich, the professor of labor studies and sociology at the University of Massachusetts
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-27/u-s-recovery-might-need-public-sector-unions-tom-juravich.html
PAD, I do agree with you that the cowardace of the Democrats is approaching legendary status. But, I don’t think that was the case in this instance. I think that they were hoping that media pressure would shame the Republicans into making just the financial changes and leaving collective barganing alone.
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The flaw, of course, is that the GOP has no shame.
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Who was it that pointed out this truism of American politics? If 40% of the public opposes a Republican idea, then the majority of America is for it and the others should acquiese to the majority. But, if 40% of the public opposes a Democratic idea, then the majority of America is against it and it needs to be changed.
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Is Anthony Weiner the only Democrat in office who is willing to take a stance in the media? The only one who presents evidence to disprove Republican “facts”? The only one who is willing to call Fox on their lies?
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Theno
Very liberal President Franklin Delano Roosevelt saw dangers in public-sector unions.
He wrote this on the subject in 1937: “Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government … . [T]he process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.”
He said a strike by public workers — such as we have seen lately by teachers in Wisconsin — “manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable.”
As the Los Angeles Times put it recently, “Even President Franklin D. Roosevelt, a staunch union supporter for the private sector, opposed collective bargaining and the right to strike for federal employees.”
Isn’t it odd that states which today share Democrat President Roosevelt’s skepticism toward public-worker collective bargaining are being accused of a “right-wing attack” on workers?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576190260787805984.html
“In 2010, Megan Sampson was named an Outstanding First Year Teacher in Wisconsin. A week later, she got a layoff notice from the Milwaukee Public Schools. Why would one of the best new teachers in the state be one of the first let go? Because her collective-bargaining contract requires staffing decisions to be made based on seniority. ”
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“It’s for the children!”
And a year later, a court rules, while not citing the 1st Amendment, that the law was unconstitutional.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13868190-judge-strikes-down-wisconsin-law-restricting-union-rights?lite
“A Wisconsin judge on Friday struck down the state law championed by Gov. Scott Walker that effectively ended collective bargaining rights for most public workers.
Dane County Circuit Judge Juan Colas ruled Friday that the law violates both the state and U.S. Constitution and is null and void.”
The Journal Sentinel reports “The law remains largely in force for state workers, though a federal judge struck down part of that section of the law as well earlier this year. But for city, county, and school workers the decision by Dane County Judge Juan Colas returns the law to its status before Walker signed his law in March 2011.”