Caroline’s been watching the old “Batman” TV series on the Hub. She’s only a year or so younger than I was when I was watching it the first time around, so it’s been interesting to see it from her point of view. I have to tell you, her POV is way more advanced than mine was, and possibly is.
We were watching a third season episode featuring Catwoman (Eartha Kitt). Now Catwoman is hands down Caroline’s favorite villain. She was not the least bit put off by the fact that Catwoman had not only changed actresses but skin color; in fact, she thought it was hilarious when she recognized the voice as being that of the villainess in “Emperor’s New Groove.” As the plot unfolds, it’s revealed that Catwoman has not only gotten involved in crimes in the fashion world, but her ultimate goal is to snare the prized Golden Fleece, valued at–as Doctor Evil would say–one millllllion dollars.
And Caroline impatiently says, “This is wrong. It’s all wrong.” I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “Catwoman only cares about cat crimes. She doesn’t care about fashion. She doesn’t care about a golden fleece. She just only does things with cats.” I realized that she was absolutely right. Batman and Robin routinely would try to anticipate her next move in past episodes by seeing what cat-related events or treasures happened to be in Gotham that might be a target. The golden fleece would hold no allure for Catwoman, as portrayed in the TV series, whatsoever. So I told her, “Well, complain to the writers.” To which Caroline replied, “Who are they? Where are they?” I said, “Well, honestly, by this point, probably dead.”
Turns out I was right. The episode in question was written by one Stanley Ralph Ross, who passed away in 2000. It’s kind of a shame. Because if he were still with us, he would have been the recipient of a letter from an angry eight year old informing him that he had totally screwed up in an episode of “Batman” written forty-five years ago.
The thing is, not only had I not realized just how wrong the story concept was when I was a child, I didn’t even realize it now. Not until Caroline pointed it out. She’s got chops, this kid.
PAD
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She got chops all right. Dangerous, dangerous chops.
So Peter, when do you start grooming your protege to enter the family writing business?
The Golden Fleece from the myth of Jason and the Argonauts? That would be a more appropriate theft for someone like Maxie Zeus. Of course, Maxie Zeus was created a fair deal after the show was cancelled, so he wouldn’t have even had the chance.
Which is a shame, because the guy is such a spectacularly campy villain, he would have fit right in with that show.
But just a touch too close to Victor Buono’s King Tut.
(And I just looked Buono up on Wikipedia to double-check the spelling of his last name, and they do NOT list his “Wild, Wild West” episodes in his filmography!)
They’re showing up for me. I’ve noticed that the new IMDb format periodically just shows SOME of a person’s credits, and you have to open up the page or something to see ’em all.
Ah, the IMDB, where their motto is, “If it ain’t broke, break it!”
Ah, the IMDB, where their motto is, “If it ain’t broke, break it!”
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It seems to be the motto of web designers in general. More often than not, an overhaul ends up causing me to visit a site less frequently.
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Take the recent overhaul of the Gawker network. I don’t think I’ve seen anybody say that they like it; Penny Arcade even had a webcomic and blob entry lambasting it.
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And in the case of IMDb, it just seems plain harder to find the information you’re looking for, rather than easier.
I think, as a corollary to those Evil Overlord lists, all TV and film studios should have a young child working for them. Before any show/movie is released it should be shown to the kid, and if that kid can point out a logical flaw in it, then it has to be fixed.
Caroline could make a fortune with a job like that!
Add Marvel and DC to that list.
A young child and Roger Ebert.
Ebert would just give everything four stars, even (or especially) with the logical flaws.
I thought she was going to become new new Snow Miser?
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First Ariel, now Caroline… your legacy is SO secured, dude. If you’d only been a little more careful with initials, we could start talking about PAD: The Next Generation.
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J.
What are you going to do when she starts pointing out the flaws in all of your stories?
What makes you think she hasn’t already?
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PAD
(Perks up) Now this I gotta hear! I’ve always wondered what Caroline thought of your work and… somehow when an author starts stroking the flat of a sword, it tells you that it’s time to gracefully back away.
That is levels of awesome rarely explored. Sounds like a really interesting kid, to say the least!
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I do like Mary’s question above, though — any thoughts?
Is everyone sure there’s no breed of sheep with anything appoaching the word “cat” in it?
No breed that I can think of. However, catgut comes from sheep, as does the Golden Fleece, so there’s sort of a cat connection there.
There is a breed called Manx Loaghtan, and a breed of cat called Manx, but I don’t think that’s enough of a connection since they’re simply sharing a common place-name.
I do find it interesting that the Manx Loaghtan has four horns (occasionally six) and Manx cats are famous for lacking tails. I wonder what sort of Mad Scientists they have breeding livestock on the Isle of Man.
What would have made far more sense for her motif is if she were to steal a golden ball of yarn (which is, of course, made from golden fleece).
PAD:”She was not the least bit put off by the fact that Catwoman had not only changed actresses but skin color.”
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I watched these at a little older age than Caroline. Early teens, I think. My reaction was that if they had to replace Catwoman, was a really good replacement. She had such an awesome voice.
I agree. I particularly loved the way she rolled the letter “r.” Julie Newmar (who, don’t get me wrong, I adored) would simply prolong the “r” so she’d say, “That’s perrrrrrrfect.” But Eartha Kitt actually rolled the “r” so it sounded just like a cat purring. How the hëll she made that noise, I can’t even begin to imagine. But she did.
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Plus, when you think about it, the film “Catwoman” actually gave an in continuity explanation as to how there were many different Catwomen. So Catwoman’s unexplained transformation into a totally different woman was retconned. (Nothing, though, could explain why the Riddler suddenly changed into Gomez Addams in the third season. What was up with that?)
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Notice, though, that Catwoman’s attraction to Batman was a constant underpinning of the Julie Newmar version; once she was a black woman, that was gone completely. Not even the slightest hint. Ah, the 1960s, where the only way Captain Kirk would kiss a black woman was if aliens forced him to.
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PAD
PAD: “Ah, the 1960s, where the only way Captain Kirk would kiss a black woman was if aliens forced him to.”
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My favorite detail about that was a letter that Nichelle Nichols said she got from a “Southern gentleman”. He said that he was against the mixing of the races, but there’s no way a red blooded man like Kirk would have resisted kissing Uhura.
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And yeah, the Eartha Kitt being very attractive didn’t hurt. Actually, for me that was mainly a factor with Batgirl. I first saw that show at about 5 years old, and I would watch the opening credits just hoping and hoping that the cartoon Batgirl would race across the screen on her motorcycle at the end. That meant she was in the episode. I don’t know why, but I loved Batgirl as a little kid. Then I got to watch the whole series as a teenager and I loved Batgirl for entirely different reasons. Wow, Yvonne Craig looked so sexy in that costume.
“I first saw that show at about 5 years old, and I would watch the opening credits just hoping and hoping that the cartoon Batgirl would race across the screen on her motorcycle at the end. That meant she was in the episode. I don’t know why, but I loved Batgirl as a little kid.”
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Get out of my head, I was about to say the exact same thing about myself (even the age is the same)!
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But yeah, when I was a kid, Batman sans Batgirl was barely even worth watching. Not seeing her in the opening credits was just way too crushing of a disappointment.
And she was hot. And so was Julie Newmar. Come to think of it, Lee Meriwether was not difficult to look at either…
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x<]:o){
The Bad Clown…
I’m not totally sure, but I think I may actually know the niece of one of the Batman writers, who I think may still be alive.
I have decided, after rewatching the Hub episodes that 1) The ancestor who built the Manor’s name was Stately Wayne. 2) “Bruce” is actually Batman’s middle name. His first name is “Millionaire”, since almost every time he’s referred to by his full name it’s stated as “Millionaire Bruce Wayne”.
Catwoman related, I know from an interview I did with him at the Montreal Worldcon that Neil Gaiman was a big fan of the show as a child. I’m wondering if an aspect of Sandman might have been subconsciously influenced by it. In the episode where the villain was The Sandman (with no relation to any DC character by that name), he’s teamed up with Catwoman (and there’s a reference to “Morpheus Mattresses”). In the comic, Morpheus has Bast, the cat goddess, as a former lover.
And as a final side note, when I asked Neil in that interview what his earliest comics related memory was, he recounted how his father told him that Batman would soon be airing in Britain (seems it only aired there after Batmania hit the States, so it’s arrival was a bit more of an immediate event there). 5 or 6 year old Neil asked “What’s a Batman?”, to which his father replied “He’s a man who dresses up like a bat and fights crime.”
At that point, there was only one type of bat young Neil was familiar with. So he was visualizing a man dressed up as a cricket bat.
I have decided, after rewatching the Hub episodes that 1) The ancestor who built the Manor’s name was Stately Wayne.
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Oh, that’s exactly what I thought as a child. I didn’t know what the word “stately” meant or that it was an adjective. Since I took everything in the show very seriously, it never occurred to me that it was funny that everyone referred to the estate with a descriptive word used by the announcer. So I thought Stately Wayne was Bruce’s late father (who was referred to as having passed away in the first episode) and that Bruce had inherited it.
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I knew what a millionaire was, of course, but I figured people used it in conversation referring to Bruce because it was a title of respect, like “the honorable.”
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PAD
I actually got into and argument with a friend years ago when he said that Batman’s partner in the show was Boy Wonder. Because that’s what they tended to call Robin in the show all the time, I had to point out that his name was Robin and the Boy Wonder was a descriptive of his abilities. To finally convince him I had to point out the “R” on his chest. He didn’t read comics and I did, so he only got his Batman exposure from the show as a kid.
Reminds me of when I was a kid watching “Star Wars” for the first time. The alien guy in the cantina who was hassling Luke said, “We’re wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems!” And my eight-year-old brain thought that the idea of a “death sentence” was the coolest thing ever. A sentence that kills people! What did it SOUND like? Did you have to cover your ears when you said it?
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I was bitterly disappointed that Kenobi executed the alien before he could use the Death Sentence. I guess I still am. 🙂
When I was a kid, I thought the scene with Bruce and Ðìçk descending into the Batcave via the Bat poles was filmed live, and the reason why they’d reached the Batcave in costume was because they’d only descended part way (to a sub-mezzanine level, if you will; and changed into their costumes while the commercials were airing.
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Which is more logical than what appeared on screen.
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I’m with you, PAD. I never noticed the problem with the golden fleece story concept when I saw the episode years ago, and it probably would have sailed right past me, if I’d seen it more recently.
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As to “Stately Wayne Manor”, I never thought it was a name, but as I’ve related before, I did tell a friend of mine, whose last name is Manor, that he should name his kid “Stately Wayne.”
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Can you believe he refused to listen to me? Both times? What is wrong with him?
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A bit off topic, but anyone know what the deal is with ComicMix? You now need to log into Facebook to post a comment? What’s up with that? Not everyone uses Facebook.
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Rick
An old “Queen of Wands” comic strip covered the question of the whole “changing into the costume while sliding down a pole” thing:
http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040119.html
Stanley Ralph Ross also wrote for the Wonder Woman TV series with Lynda Carter.
Among his other credits and of particular interest to me is that Mr. Ross was the voice of Gorilla Grodd on Challenge Of The Super Friends. 🙂
We have those on DVD as well. I should show them to Caroline and see if they pass the Caroline Test for internal logic.
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PAD
Oh, come on. She’ll love the episode where the Toyman’s built an entire PLANET with games INSIDE a BLACK HOLE!!!
MY kids love them, of course.
I recently watched all of those recently (review at http://thearmchaircritic.blogspot.com/2011/01/challenge-of-super-friends-first-season.html ) and if you show them to Caroline to test for internal logic, her head might explode. Pushing the Earth out of its orbit? A force field that can surround the Earth? The Legion of Doom never using the same gadget twice? The Legion of Doom conquering the Earth and still wanting money? (“You may control the whole planet, but you’re still short five bucks.”) Why the Scarecrow and Riddler were on the team? Green Lantern, Superman, and the Batplane being able to travel through time?
And I could go on, and on, and on…
Superman traveled in time a lot back in those days.
I am 59 years old and the Adam West Batman TV show holds absolutely no nostalgic charm for me. It’s continued existence and the idea that it is used as a point of reference by people who profess to love the art form is a mystery to me. It did nothing to help the comic medium. The embarrassing use of BAM! POW! CRASH! over 40 years after the show debuted by lazy headline writers makes me wince. The show was corny, campy and emblematic of everything that civilians believed comics were about.
I don’t mean to hijack this thread but I wonder if PAD saw the SNL sketch this week about the shady lawyer who advertisers for clients who have been injured by the Spider-Man Broadway show.
On a related note, EW printed some reviews of the show this week and one of them noted that Archane and her gang have musical number in which they go shoe-shopping. Sounds like Stanley Ralph Ross has acolytes.
There are two things that Batman fans owe to the Adam West TV show:
1. Prior to the TV show, sales of the Batman comic book were allegedly low enough for DC to consider cancellation. Once the TV show took off, sales of the comic picked up.
2. Trying to add zing to the 3rd season, the producers of the TV show asked Julius Schwartz to create a new female Bat-character, and the result was the creation of the Barbara Gordon Batgirl.
Prior to the TV show, sales of the Batman comic book were allegedly low enough for DC to consider cancellation. Once the TV show took off, sales of the comic picked up.
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Had the comic been cancelled I have no doubt that it would have returned eventually and without the albatross of this show hanging around its neck. Heck, even the X-Men were cancelled once.
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Trying to add zing to the 3rd season, the producers of the TV show asked Julius Schwartz to create a new female Bat-character, and the result was the creation of the Barbara Gordon Batgirl.
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Yeah, not a Batgirl fan so this addition to the cast does nothing to persuade me. No doubt Yvonne Craig looked great in that skin-tight costume but the show was essentially a comedy and there should be nothing funny about a traumatized man attempting to avenge to murder of his parents.
Allegedly that’s how Poison Ivy came to be created, too. The producers were looking for another female villain to toss at Batman and one of the sketches Schwartz and Carmine Infantino came up with was Poison Ivy. They almost used her, but decided at the last minute to go with a heroine aiding Batman, which is how Batgirl came about. Not to let anything go to waste, Schwartz handed the sketch to Robert Kanigher and asked him to write a story around it.
” the show was essentially a comedy and there should be nothing funny about a traumatized man attempting to avenge to murder of his parents.”
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All comedy is tragedy. They’re built from the same stuff.
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There isn’t even a distinct line between the two. Show me the best version of Batman in your opinion and I bet I can find some comedy in it. Batman Beyond had a Batman musical that ended with Bruce Wayne turning to the protégé who brought him and saying, “You hate me, don’t you?”
Batman fans owe a third debt to the TV show, too: Alfred was dead in the comics when the series started, replaced by Aunt Harriet. He was brought back to life because they wanted to use him on TV. Granted, the way they found to bring him back was kind of goofy, but he’s been a thousand times more important to the Bat mythos since then than Aunt Harriet ever has.
The thing is, by and large, the show was a pretty good representation of what superhero comics were like at the time. Sure, they may have upped the silliness a bit for the sake of satire, but a live action adaptation of any DC comic book in the ’60s wouldn’t have been too different.
Heck, the Superman comics back then were frequently even more over-the-top than the Batman show was.
I agree with George. I have no love for the show. But neither do I hate it as I once did. Now there is enough media out there with serious representations of Batman to stop people from thinking the 1960s TV show is what superhero comics are about.
Yeah, the third season really seemed to throw what little internal logic and consistency the series had out the window. Probably doesn’t help that Hub is clearly airing ’em out of order. Of course, Batgirl helps…
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At least Chief O’Hara stopped calling down to “clear the parking lot exits for the Batmobile” when it’s clearly parked in on the street in of Police HQ (which, BTW, is obviously on top of a hotel, or possibly an apartment building, or perhaps both).
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But yeah… Caroline’s quicker on the uptake than me, I didn’t say “Hey, waitasec…” until AFTER. Guess the “Fridge Logic” worked in my case. I *really* would have liked to have seen the writer’s reply to her letter… is the producer still alive? Maybe she can write to the director about it (Sam Strangis – IMDb doesn’t seem to list much of anything about him, so no idea of his status. But he’s listed as “Himself” in an ep of “Totally Tracked Down” from 2010). Or Adam West, I suspect he’d get a kick out of it, he seems to have embraced his own campiness.
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Did anybody else notice this weekend that the Catwoman released by… um… the invisible couple whose names I’m blanking on, was clearly supposed to be Julie Newmar, not Eartha Kitt?
You monsters… you’re raising an editor. How can you do that to a child?
PAD, while we’re talking about writing problems, could you do me a favor? Next time you’re working with the Young Justice Animated guys, please find out who came up with the catch phrase “Hellooo, M’gann!” and smack him with a large trout.
There’s actually a reason for that. Be patient.
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PAD
Uh, yeah. I’m kinda leaving the country after a couple more episodes. So I’ll just have to take your word for it if you’re saying it gets better. Right now I’m thinking that catch phrases are painful, even if she learned all her English from Saturday morning cartoons or something.
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I do like what they did with Robin. He doesn’t say holy-this and holy-that, but he does have an interest in word play. Sometimes it feels a little forced, but it works pretty well for the character. I also liked how Superboy picked up one of Robin’s odd words. Since he’s had so little exposure to the world, he probably thought it was a real word.
A flashback to “Hellooo, Nurse!” from TINY TOONS, perhaps?
Another minor YJ comment, if you are allowed to answer it. Each episode shows the date that something is happening. When you were writing your episodes, did they tell you that it was happening on such-and-such a date or is that something just added in by the animators?
Speaking of Batman, there’s an article about the TV series, subtitled “the story of how a Bat saved a network”, in the Winter 2011 edition of The Nostalgia Digest. It’s a good read.
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Rick
Some Bat-notes:
Julie Newmar was filming the movie Mackenna’s Gold at the time the third season of the Batman show was being shot. Because she was unable to make the time to play Catwoman, the producers hired Eartha Kitt. As a white Southern male of a certain age (52), I find it bizarre that Ms. Kitt’s Catwoman wasn’t allowed to flirt with Batman (a case of the big bad real world wedging into the Adam West Batworld).
As to John Astin playing the Riddler, it turns out Frank Gorshin had a nightclub appearance he couldn’t get out of. So between Mr. Astin and Carolyn Jones’ appearances as Marsha, Queen of Diamonds, the Addams Family was fairly well represented on Batman…and I’m not forgetting Ted Cassidy’s Batclimb cameo as Lurch.
While I’m on the topic, don’t you think the late Mr. Cassidy would have made an excellent Two-Face? Adam West mentioned in his memoir, Back to the Batcave, that he would have liked to have seen the character on the show.
Final note: The Gorshin/Astin tidbit came from Cinefantastique’s feature article on the Batman TV series; I think it was Fall or Spring 1992 (said issue is currently boxed up).
Peace out.
All comedy is tragedy. They’re built from the same stuff.
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Yes but not all comedy is parody and that is what this show was.
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Show me the best version of Batman in your opinion and I bet I can find some comedy in it.
Frank Miller’s Year One. A serious, dramatic, moving story. Does it have light moments? Yes, Alfred’s withering comments. But those serve to define him as a man who is not intimidated by his employer’s wealth and status. And whatever humor that exists in the story does not come at the expense of Batman’s dignity.
Bingo, Batman: Year One has comedy in it. If it can have one joke, it can have more.
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The Producers had jokes about Hitler. Actually, I’ve seen old Warner Brothers cartoons that had jokes about WWII, also.
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At the funeral for Graham Chapman, fellow Monty Python cast member John Cleese got up to say a few words. He started off with a joke that got everyone in the church laughing. That wasn’t even a story, that was a real tragedy.
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As for the idea that some stories are above parody, bûllšhìŧ. Nothing is above parody. Batman should be used in a parody? That’s absurd. Batman doesn’t deserve religious significance where nobody is allowed to belittle him. I don’t even think religions deserve that, so I’m not going to act that way about a superhero.
An above line should read, “Batman should *not* be used in a parody?”
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I wish we could edit posts.
The only problem is, for a too long time, that show and stuff like SUPERFRIENDS were the only representatives the general public had of the superhero genre.
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I am stating the obvious by saying that such views were so prevalent, that every time there was talk of a superhero adaptation, everybody automatically assumed it would be campy, including Hollywood producers.
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Now that we’ve had several TV and movie incarnations of Batman with varying levels of seriousness, the 1960s TV show is pretty harmless. Still not my cup of tea, but if people enjoy it, more power to them.
I don’t think the public should latch onto “BIF!” and “ZAP!” and reuse them over and over as if that’s all there is. Anytime a magazine wants to run a story about ComicCon or some development in comics, they pull that stuff out. But that’s the fault of lazy writers who can’t think of anything better to say about comics.
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Just because the public often conflates superheroes with one campy superhero show doesn’t mean that show did anything wrong.
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BTW, Batman wasn’t the only representation that people had of Superheroes. There was more serious superhero stuff before Batman (like the old Superman show) and after (like Bill Bixby’s Incredible Hulk).
Let me clarify. I’m talking about my experiences from the late-1970s to the early-1990s. The old Superman show aired in the 1950s, and had been widely displaced by 1960s Batman as THE representation of the superhero in the public consciousness.
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There were a few aversions in this period, but I don’t think they ever challenged 1960s Batman as “what superheroes are supposed to be about.” The Hulk TV show was one aversion, the first Superman movie was a even bigger one that seemed like it could challenge the Adam West paradigm, but ultimately it didn’t (Richard Pryor made certain it didn’t).
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I think I was so sick of it that I even loved Tim Burton’s Batman movie at the time, because I thought that would be the most respect superheroes would ever get, even with all the changes Burton introduced and his stated dislike of superheroes.
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Man, I almost cried when I first watched the Batman Animated Series in 1992. It looked like a miracle at the time, that someone could actually treat Batman with respect in another media.
Some data on the late Stanley Ralph Ross (from wikipedia – take if for what it’s worth)
…made his mark on television with writing. As an ABC executive, he wrote (and directed) the classic opening segment to ABC’s Wide World of Sports:
“ Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sport… the thrill of victory… and the agony of defeat… the human drama of athletic competition… this is ABC’s Wide World of Sports.”
Ross died of lung cancer on March 16, 2000 leaving behind a wife and three children. He was buried in Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery. His grave reads: Larger Than Life Beloved Son, Husband, Father, Grandfather STANLEY RALPH ROSS July 22, 1935 * March 16, 2000 “Thanks, I Had A Wonderful Time!”
taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Ralph_Ross
To be honest PAD, your daughter’s pedigree and her future potential talent aside, getting an “angry” letter from an 8 year old about a mistake on a 40 plus year old episode after a career like, all the while dying of lung cancer (if he were still alive today) I don’t think (I hate to presume) would’ve bothered him too much.
It might even have (again hating to presume) tickled him that so much attention (rightfully so) was given to it.
Just watched this episode with my 7-year old daughter and 8-year son. It’s the first Catwoman one they’ve seen, they know her only from some Showcases and a Treasury Edition or two.
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And when Catwoman laid out her plan, sure enough, my 8-year old said, “Wait! Something’s fishy… Catwoman’s plans always revolve around cats…”
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He also asked what the big deal was that Catwoman messed up the models’ hair in the beginning. Best explanation I could come up with was “The only problem here is that these women have their entire sense of identity wrapped up in how their hair looks.”
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Overall, not the best-written episode by a long shot.
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Robin: “And if our eyes are closed, we won’t be able to see anything!”
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Holy D-uh!
Interestingly, there was a subsequent Catwoman episode written by the same writer. This one had Catwoman endeavoring to break into the Federal Reserve. Yet again, nothing cat-related about that.
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PAD