My wife, whose name apparently was similar to someone on a watch list somewhere, was on the no-fly list (now gone from it, thankfully) while Abdul Mudallad, who was in the terrorist data base, was NOT on the no-fly list.
Thank God some fast-thinking passengers and a misfired inflammatory device prevented an even greater tragedy. In the future you can probably kiss good-bye to bringing baby powder on an airplane now. What worries me is that, a few years ago, some idiot tried to sneak on explosives in his shoes and now we all have to remove our footwear to get through security. This guy smuggled in explosives in his pants. Not liking where this is going. Maybe the next big thing for male fliers will be the convenience of travel kilts.
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It reminds of the scene from An American Carol where they show passengers complaining about undergoing cavity searches ever since “the Episcopal Suppository Bomber.”
And yet, it seems very likely that somebody will try just that some day, Malcolm.
Peter David: My wife, whose name apparently was similar to someone on a watch list somewhere, was on the no-fly list (now gone from it, thankfully) while Abdul Mudallad, who was in the terrorist data base, was NOT on the no-fly list.
Luigi Novi: Of coure, Peter. Didn’t you know that it’s always those Irish-American puppeteers who are the most trouble?
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🙂
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You can thank Jeff Dunham and “the lotion” for that one…
“…Abdul Mudallad, who was in the terrorist data base, was NOT on the no-fly list.”
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Of course he wasn’t. And it is further evidence of the incompetency of the Bush presidency. And I’m sure we’ll be learning even more things about the inept Bush presidency for the next half century.
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Can we please start the criminal trials on these guys soon?
Alan, I’m pretty sure we have a different president now.
Really? So now I should blame all of the problems from the last 8 years on the new guy? Really?
Really? So it takes more than a year to say “Hey, let’s put everyone from the terrorist data list onto the no fly list”? Really?
Yes, Mike T, when one makes the (rather reasonable, IMHO) assumption that the Department of Homeland Security, bulldogs that they claim to be, had gone to the trouble of merging the two lists, it can take some time (“more than a year”? Try eleven months, with a lot of other things going on at the same time) to learn that in fact whoever was in charge of that project was totally incompetent.
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One comment I’ve seen around the net – when Reed tried to set off his shoe bombs, they started making people take off their shoes at checkin. Now this guy has tried to blow up his underwear. I don’t like where this is headed…
this does not fill me with a sense of confidence: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/12/27/napolitano_on_failed_terror_attempt_the_system_worked.html
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Bsaically, Napolitano sways the system worked. Say what? A terrorist who has been turned in by his own father, who was not allowed to re-enter great Britain, manages to board an airliner with enough explosives to destroy the aircraft and is foiled only by luck and the bravery of the passengers…and the system worked???
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Were she a Bush appointee there would be calls for her removal…and I’d agree with them. I don’t expect any one person to be able to predict every possible scenario but at least let them be honest and/or bright enough to recognize a failure of the system when it is staring them right in the face!
Well, now Napolitano admits the system failed miserably. A nutless monkey could do this job as well as the people we now have.
The news just announced that, since this would-be bomber had his explosive on his lap under a blanket, airlines will be limiting or forbidding people from keeping things on their laps. Apart from my not thinking this will last, what *exactly* will they forbid? Hands? Books? Laptops?
For that matter, how long until they remove all blankets, as they could be used to conceal? And if the blankets go, can the Snuggie be far behind? (Personally I think that Snuggies look like cultist robes; then again, I do read a lot of Lovecraft.)
It was in his underwear. Pants and underwear are now illegal on planes. Come on! How about no air travel, anywhere, period?!
Well, according to the folks over on Gizmodo (http://bit.ly/4pabA0 ) new secutiry measures for international flights coming to the U.S. might include things like no electronics allowed at all on carry-ons and passengers required to be seated without anything on their laps during the last hour of flight. Other measures might be implemented on a purposely unpredictable, case-by-case basis.
Interesting world, it is…
Yeah, because prohibiting anything in your lap or from leaving your seat *only* in the last hour of the flight will do a whole helluva lot to keep some nutjob from blowing themselves up during the first hour of the flight. Or the second. Or third.
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In short: this only the last hour prohibition makes no fûçkìņg sense.
As far as Snuggies go, save yer money and put your bathrobe on backwards. Same thing.
This reminds of me of that joke that Last Comic Standing winner Alonzo Bodden did (paraphrasing): “So now because some guy put a bomb in his shoes, everyone has to take off their shoes at the airport……Where’s the bra bomber at??”
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He was close.
What I find interesting is that we never learn how ridiculous airline security is from all these incidents. You can’t stop determined individuals from doing stupid things by putting everyone through these indignities.
I found out today my elderly grandparents have been searched recently at airports while others have been waved straight through. This is just getting ridiculous.
Right – those would be random searches. If they’re permitted skip over people they don’t think fit a profile when their “number” comes up, they’re no longer random. The best way then to get a bomb onto a plane is to recruit someone who will probably get passed through – say, an elderly person with a terminal disease who wants to send a grandchild to college.
Not that I think airport security is, or even can be, terribly effective (having accidentally carried an 6 inch switchblade through security in three consecutive airports while my traveling companion was regularly relieved of his disposable lighters) but let’s not completely declaw it.
The best way then to get a bomb onto a plane is to recruit someone who will probably get passed through
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And yet, that isn’t happening, is it? Little old ladies aren’t blowing up much of anything.
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As it stands, some were reporting today that the last hour of the flight stuff is being relaxed… just don’t bother trying to get the TSA to admit it.
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But apparently the TSA thinks its best for everybody – whether they be terrorist or, like the 99.99% of fliers, innocent travelers – to be as confused as possible. “Be prepared for anything” they say; sorry, I go to the airport to get on a plane, not to play Boy Scout.
Craig’s correct–we keep hearing about how the terrorists could just recruit normal looking people to do the deed yet all we see are people right out of the Ðìçk Tracy School of Obvious Suspects. The Shoe Bomber is seriously in the running for Ugly Man of the Decade and most of the others aren’t exactly the winning card on Mystery Date either. They seem to have a pretty limited cadre of willing dupes and depend on pure stupidity on the part of those letting them on the plane, which, regrettably, is a pretty savvy tactic (if it’s true that firecrotch got on without a passport there really should be some heads rolling. I have to hope that this is an inaccurate report–I’m going to be duct taped to my seat in 3 days for the flight back to North Carolina and they are letting this (literally) flaming áššhølë on without a valid passport??? I have little regard for the geniuses in charge but even I can’t believe it’s THAT bad!)
I hadn’t read anything about his passport, Bill, only that he did have a valid visa.
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But I had read that on top of his being on the Watch List (but not No-Fly List), he supposedly paid for a one-way ticket with cash. If that’s true, then it boggles the mind, as that combination is the exact kind of red flag that the system was designed to catch.
But I had read that on top of his being on the Watch List (but not No-Fly List), he supposedly paid for a one-way ticket with cash. If that’s true, then it boggles the mind, as that combination is the exact kind of red flag that the system was designed to catch.
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Yeah, but did you read the description of “security” at the Nigerian airport where he initially entered the system? One ancient x-ray machine that doesn’t work particularly well, guards not paying attention to the passengers, and no bomb-sniffing dogs although “they’re talking about getting some.” It’s a cliche but it’s true: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
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PAD
I agree with Bill Maher, airline security has nothing to do with keeping us safe, it’s about the appearance of doing something that looks like they’re doing something to keep us safe without spending a whole lot of what it would cost to keep really keep us safe. If they were really concerned about keeping us safe they would do things like have facial recognition software in place at all airports linked to a master database, in use by pretty much all casinos (and some banks) and about 90% effecting from keeping known card counters and other cheaters out, even if they wear a disguise or change their appearance. This of course might actually stop a known terrorist before he walks into an airport at no inconvenience to those of us not wanting to blow up a plane. But NOOOOOOO can’t have that, that cost a lot of money, so lets have people take off their shoes and tell the they can’t bring toothpaste on an airline, That cost almost nothing, has already being proven ineffective, and inconveniences everybody, but at least it looks like they’re doing something and they don’t have to spend a lot of money to do it, and ultimately that’s what matters.
I love the notion that you can’t go to the bathroom during the last hour of the flight. Because anyone who’s ever traveled knows that the last hour can go an hour and a quarter or ninety minutes, or two hours, depending upon any number of factors. You’re going to tell me that some mother with her four year old who’s got a potty emergency is going to be wrestled to the ground by sky marshals? Come on.
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PAD
You can’t go to the bathroom in the last hour? I can’t always hold it that long.
I think we should get rid of airline security entirely. Who’s with me?
Really, the whole last hour. When did that start? I don’t remember that being in place the last time I flew. Wonder how they deal with people who have medical conditions that may require frequent use of the bathroom, (especially since I have one of those conditions).
I’m with Mary. At some point people will begin to remember there are other words in the dictionary than “security”. Can you imagine Type A business people being willing to spend several hours without being allowed their laptops? Teleconference will start to look more and more attractive. And it’s not as though the airline industry can afford to pìšš øff more travelers, they’re already teetering on the verge of bankruptcy.
Really, the whole last hour. When did that start?
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Just recently. Bathrooms were actually locked one hour prior to landing.
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Look, the fact is you CAN’T make airplanes completely security tight. Someone tackled the Pope a few days ago and presidents have still been shot despite the best efforts of the Secret Service. Nothing is 100%. All that can be done is to make it as safe as possible, but at some point you start crossing a line where passengers aren’t just being protected from the actions of others; they’re being punished because of the actions of others. And with the removal of blankets, the locking of bathrooms, I think we’ve crossed that line. (Although I honestly don’t give a rip about computers. You want to work on a plane? Bring a pad of paper and a pen. You want something to occupy your attention? Read a book.)
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PAD
And umm what about those of us with IBS and/or colitis? I guess they won’t mind a mess in their seat if they deny me use of the facilities.
Ahem. Card counters are not cheaters. It’s both perfectly legal and within the rules of the game to do so. The casinos just don’t like it.
Technically card counting is not cheating and no it is not illegal,(in this country anyone), but also technically the casinos don’t have to allow you inside their doors, in Vegas as soon as they realize you’re counting they will escort you out, and by the time you’ve reached the door your picture has been entered into the system which pretty much every casino in town subscribes too, so the minute you walk into the next casino in town, the facial recognition software will pick you out and security will be on you before you even get halfway to a table. Now imagine if we had this system in place in airports and train stations
Technically card counting is not cheating and no it is not illegal,(in this country anyone), but also technically the casinos don’t have to allow you inside their doors, in Vegas as soon as they realize you’re counting they will escort you out, and by the time you’ve reached the door your picture has been entered into the system which pretty much every casino in town subscribes too, so the minute you walk into the next casino in town, the facial recognition software will pick you out and security will be on you before you even get halfway to a table. Now imagine if we had this system in place in airports and train stations.
here’s a suggestion–whatever the Israeli airlines are doing that keeps them from ever having this kind of problem, despite the fact that the people who do this sort of thing hate Israel more than anything on Earth…whatever it is they’re doing, let’s, you know, do it. No reason to reinvent the wheel here.
The problem is, one of the things the Israeli’s do is profile by race, (and other factors) which would never fly here. That said there are other things they do that we could and should adapt and use, but then there’s that money thing again.
Considering the cost of a successful hijack/bombing, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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And yeah, racial/ethnic profiling may leave a bad taste in one’s mouth (though if the KKK were rumored to be about to commit some act of evil would anyone expect the cops to randomly stop vans full of black guys? Just to keep things even?) but seriously, if this guy looks anything like the shoe bomber he probably would not be out of place in the Ðìçk Tracy Rogues Gallery.
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I mean, look at this: http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/shoe-bomber-reid.jpg Would you let that guy on an airplane without a strip search and a DNA test? http://www.foxnews.com/images/308250/7_61_mohammed_khalid_sheik.jpg Jesus! I wouldn’t want that guy in my area code, much less in seat 7A. check out this joker- http://snappedshot.com/uploads/Parody/capt.bb53b30e82e34d6b87ae51d853725e46.india_kashmir_protest_rmx105.jpg hëll, Ahmadinejad would get off the aircraft is he saw that guy get on.
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And they can always do an equally thorough search on a few non-cartoon looking folks, just to placate those folks who have the misfortune of looking like Islamic terrorists and/or extras from a Sergio Leone western. My beautiful red haired teenage daughter almost always gets special treatment at the airport, which is understandable when one realizes that the number of terrorist acts performed by people who fit her profile has held steady for the last century at a whopping 0.0% of reported air crimes
The New York attacks prove facial recognition and biometrics really won’t work all that well. Because the perpetrators weren’t known terrorists. They weren’t wanted for anything. So they’d have passed the tests anyway.
Some of the 911 attackers were on watch list and being investigated by the FBI, part of the problem was other agencies didn’t have that information. A central database with facial recognition would have helped. In this case however it was a known terrorist so it would have worked.
Nothing is 100% effective, any system, short of forcing everyone to fly naked with see though luggage, (which I personally am for BTW), will have gaps, the point is what we’re doing isn’t effective at all, that has been proven time and again, (aside from attempted attacks and people who had guns in their carry on’s that they forgot about, there are several reporters who have tested the system and in almost all cases succeeded in getting potentially dangerous items onto a plane).
We know that there are other things out there that are more effective, we’re not doing those things because they cost money. The things we are doing don’t cost a lot but they do make a big show so to the public it seems like they’re doing a lot when in fact they aren’t doing much at all.
As far as I know these people flew under their real names, using legit documents. As such, facial recognition and biometrics are irrelevant. Just flag the name, passport number and … voila!
This makes me so terrified to fly. There is a reason El-Al works, and it’s not just racial profiling. “In addition, bags are put through a decompression chamber simulating pressures during flight that could trigger explosives. El Al is the only airline in the world that passes all luggage through such a chamber. Even at overseas airports, El Al security agents conduct all luggage searches personally, even if they are supervised by government or private security firms.” It might not work for a large country like America, but we could learn a lot from them.
I don’t understand this obsession with airline security. If airplanes become too difficult a target, wouldn’t the terrorists just bomb something else? Trains are extremely vulnerable (and there is no way they could ever not be). And if they wanted to bring down more tall buildings like they did before, the simplest method would be to rent office space and then just plant explosives around crucial support structures. I don’t see how security ever does much good.
If the US really wants to avoid terrorist attacks, the easiest way to do it is to simply stop supporting oppressive regimes in the Middle East (including Israel) and Central Asia. al-Qaida and similar groups truly believe that they are fighting in self-defence, and if we would stop interfering in the region, they really would leave us alone. (It might take a few years before they start to realise we are no longer a threat, though.)
Actually, we have gotten off easy compared to the rest of the world, where radical islamic fanatics have killed more people than most would even guess. Pakistan, Iraq, Thailand,etc. these stories don’t make the papers much but the fact remains that you don’t have to be an Israeli supporter to earn the wrath of fanatics.
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And the evidence does not support the idea that it is the poor oppressed people who believe they are fighting in self defense that are filling the ranks of the martyr brigades. Both Abdul Mutallab and Nidal Hasan, to name two, lived lives of unimaginable opportunity and privilege compared to about 99% of the decent Muslims in their homelands who end up getting tarred by their insanity.
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It isn’t the poor we should watch out for, it’s the pampered middle class (or better) who have their no doubt well justified sense of inferiority stroked by radicals who know well how to use envy, pride, false claims of how some “other” has held you down–all the tools that can mold a classic loser into a bully. A killer bully in this case.
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The USA could stab Israel in the back, ignore the region entirely, and sing kumbayah till the cows come home. it would make a difference, yes, but not the way you think it would. at some point they would probably make some demand you couldn’t stomach–killing homosexuals perhaps–but it might be a bit late by then.
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there are some valid arguments that could be made for not supporting Israel to the extent that we do. I would probably disagree with most of them but they would be respectable. Doing so to keep terrorists from wanting to kill us ain’t one of them.
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Mary, that’s a nice idea, but it just doesn’t work that way. A few years ago in England there was an interview with a militant cleric who was getting the name as an extremist and a šhìŧ disturber. He was asked about his comments that the United Kingdom had to bend to the will of the Muslim faith and submit itself to the laws of the Qur’an. The laws of the United Kingdom you see did not all conform with what is “right” by his world view and his interpretations of the Qur’an.
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When it was pointed out to him that the UK has been there for a while now and had established cultural and religious dos and don’ts that were in place before either he or a number of the complaining members of his group had immigrated to England… He stated that he simply did not care. He said that the Will of Allah was all, the Qur’an was clear on matters, the laws in England and the UK were not what they should be and that the UK would change and bend itself to the Qur’an and the Will of Allah one way or another.
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And this guy at the time was leading a not insubstantially sized group.
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His dial is turned all the way up to ten. All you have to do is have a fanatic (well, some one even more fanatical) with his view on what is and is not right who has his personal dial slip to eleven and you can be doing nothing more than wanting to live your life and let him live his and it will mean nothing. You will obey his view of what should be or you will die.
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Sad but true.
One of those no-win things. If I were in power, I’d throw the guy out. You don’t like the way we do things? Go live somewhere else. But then, that’d make me almost as bad as they are. One of the most basic aspects of our society is the tolerance of alternate viewpoints and even acceptance of legal dissent. We throw him out, we’re changing that at the root. But if we let him stay, he works at eliminating it anyway. Either way …
I am reminded of “The Fifth Element” where the passengers were put into cryo-sleep for the duration of a (trans-planetary) flight. If the tech existed, I can imagine a day when this would be mandatory. It would certainly solve the whole “no-bathroom-trips-during-the-last-hour” thing.
I’ll just say this:
I haven’t flown in a couple of years. My last trip was from BWI-Marshall (Baltimore) to Tampa. I think it may have been before the no-liquids-over-three-ounces thing.
I have a sister and two nephews who live in Maine. Both my trips to visit them have been by plane. My last visit was in late 2004.
I would honestly prefer to drive the Mapquest-calculated 543 miles each way, which should take about 10-1/2 hours with rest stops, than deal with airport security as it now stands. The gas would cost about a hundred bucks, round-trip, which is cheaper than airfare.
Interesting article on what the Israelis are doing right–http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199—israelification-high-security-little-bother
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The last incident they had was in 2002 when a passenger accidentally brought a gun on board an aircraft.
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reading it I get the feeling we have really screwed up–they ask the same idiot question we do about whether we let any strangers pack our luggage but the difference is that they don’t care about the answer (which is always “No.” Especially from actual terrorists.) They look at your reaction.
Bill, I wish the interviewee didn’t sound so arrogant.
He’s right that Israeli security reduce the time of the checks by using more personal and professional judgment instead of a blind routine. However they also use racial profiling, and there have been complaints about it.
He’s also presenting it as if Israelis won’t tolerate the kind of delays Americans tolerate. That’s only partially true. On the other hand, we’ve actually tolerated longer waits in the airport and having our bags checked at the the entrances of movie theaters etc for years before 9/11. That’s the paradox: on the one hand Israelis are more obedient and trusting of their government than Americans, on the other hand they are less so. Maybe the traits balance themselves.
Another point that should be mentioned is that the impression of doing something to promote security — even if it is not perfect and foolproof — is the right thing to do. Ultimately, terrorism wins not by the people it kills but by all the other people who are terrorized. So if the people have a feeling that their country is doing a reasonably good job of keeping them safe, even if it is not perfect, it is a victory against terrorism.
that’s a good point. Right now I have way more confidence in the fact that my fellow passengers will subdue any terrorists than I do in the government being able to keep said terrorists on the aircraft. Since that depends on the terrorist being like Abdul Crotchrocket (ie semi comically unsuccessful) this is not a good thing.
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Well, I’m juts a few hours away from boarding for the trip home from Minnesotta (State Motto: “Jesus! It’s Cold!”) so I’d best start thinking happy thoughts…”the people in charge know what they are doing, otherwise they wouldn’t be in charge…the people in charge know what……”
You’re safe Bill. No terrorist will attack Minnesota. It’s too cold. Unless maybe the Swedish Liberation Front.
I should also point out that Israel has its own share of reactive security measures that were created after a loophole was discovered (by terrorists) and not before.
I am going to start my own airline. No security precautions. It will named SomminAire. Passengers take their seats, the masks are lowered and everyone is administered an anesthetic gas. No boring lectures and everyone arrives refreshed at their destination.
If that doesn’t work I refine the business model and create NaturAire!!