That Dave Lopez and Fernando Blanco, thinking that “Fallen Angel” wasn’t going past #18, picked up some work that, it turned out, they then had to swing into before they could get to the new issues of “Fallen Angel.” So several weeks ago it was decided that #19 would ship in March, not February…and no one mentioned it to me.
So out come the February solicits and guess who’s left going, “What the #*@%?!”
Oh well. I suppose the upside of this is two-fold. First off, you come out with a book on time, month in, month out, and fans take you for granted. Get delayed and suddenly everyone’s talking about you. And second, it gives us that much more time to get the word out about “Sachs and Violens” showing up for a two-issue guest stint. When I get some pages in of Dave and Fernando’s rendition, I’ll post them here.
PAD
• 
Hey, don’t feel bad. My book was due out yesterday, and it’s only now that I’m able to go back to bookstores I approached and say, “Um… Yeah, it has a new format and a new street date.”
I sure hope this doesn’t turn into a case of Out-of-Sight-Out-of-Mind. I really like this book but the delays can only harm sales. It seems as though DC is trying to save the book and kill the book at the exact same time.
Since they only gave a 2 issue extention, it has probably doomed the book because any momentum from the free first issue will be forgotten by the time retailers place their orders for issue 19. If DC had give the book an extention through issue 25 it might have allowed things to pick up, but 2 issues just won’t be long enough after such a long delay.
And I wonder if the sales are good enough to extend it further, how much of a delay there will be between issues #20 and #21.
What are your rights to the characters? If DC decides to end the run, can you take the series elsewhere, since you created the characters, or is it considered work-for-hire and the characters are now DCs?
Regardless…I’m glad I’ll get to see Sachs and Violens in action again.
It
Thanks for the update, Mr. David. I was afraid it was something like that. Best wishes for the book. I continue to drop “subtle” hints to the comic shop I buy at, but they’ve had one copy left over on the shelves most months, so I’m guessing that they’re not going to order more.
‘Til it’s revealed that Lee is really Ambush Bug, I’ll continue buying.
Actually, if you read all of Lee’s dialogue from issues 4-9 aloud into a tape recorder, have said recording transferred to a 33 1/3 LP and then play it backwards, you’ll hear a voice say, “I am the Ambush Bug.” Pretty cool, actually. And it’s always a female voice when you play the record backward, regardless of the gender of the original recorder.
PAD, I trust you’ll emphasize that the book is still being published, just slightly delayed, in subsequent interviews (and in BID), so it won’t drop off readers’- and retailers’- radars? I’ll make sure my store knows the book has been delayed, but not canceled.
Rick
Well that really stinks.
I agree that this most likely is the death knell for the book. Momentum and word of mouth is so key for struggling books like this. To have to wait 2 months without fans seeing it might just doom the title.
Hopefully, DC will do good by you PAD and plug the book with some added publicity when #19 finally does come out. I think they owe it to you and us FA fans!
I was wondering what the deal was.
Peter:
Why don’t you just renumber #19 as Volume 2, #1.
This in no small way sucks. I do agree it might hurt some as far as momentum – but I don’t think it’s a death sentence. I think it’s up to us as fans to get people excited about it. Maybe we can all write letters to Wizard so they’ll actually get their behinds removed from Bendis’s Bottom and cover the book! That would be nice.
If the series gets extended past 19%20… how would you guys feel if DC did something like Marvel had done with Runaways and will do with She-Hulk where they relaunch it again with a new #1 and more publicity? Somehow that seems a bit cheap for Fallen Angel… but if it might pick up new readers… hmmmmm
“Why don’t you just renumber #19 as Volume 2, #1.”
I have to admit, that has occurred to me. Do you guys think that would help or hurt?
PAD
Do you guys think that would help or hurt?
I suppose it depends. Marvel seems to think it works.
Captain America, Iron Man, Avengers, etc.
Heck, I never read an issue of Captain Marvel until the last relaunch. So, I know that relaunches do bring in new readers.
However, what would DC do with this? Would they really push the relaunch and make an effort to promote it? If not, then we are back to whwere we are now, and it wouldn’t be worth it to me.
It can’t help but boost numbers. Retailers are sheep. They’ll order anything with a #1 on it. 🙂
I’d say it would help, especially if DC could be persuaded to publish the second collection at approximately the same time. It also might encourage DC to commit to maybe six additional issues instead of only two for a full relaunch. I don’t think many of us regular readers would object to a renumbering if it extends the life of the book.
–your pal, Hoy
Do you guys think that would help or hurt?
I don’t see any way that it would hurt. It probably depends on whether DC would promote it or not. If they’re gonna ignore its “relaunch,” then you might have a new #1 that people will just ignore again. If DC does promote it, however, readers might be like, “Hey! A new start to that ‘Fallen Angel’ book! It did good enough for a second volume, so maybe I’ll get it!”
Also, you yourself have said that you see the first 18 issues as one “novel” (that’s the word I believe you used), so from a story standpoint, starting with a new #1 might be cool.
JAB
I find renumbering to be a pretty lame stunt being done nowadays. I mean there have been 3 Captain America #1’s in the last 6 years.
But it does seem to grab people’s attentions. I would think PAD would want a better confirmation from DC that it goes farther than just 2 issues to make it worthwhile.
Heck, you could even borrow a page from Brubaker’s Sleeper and call it Fallen Angel Season 2.
BTW, I continually email DC’s ‘Ask the Editors’ asking them about a second trade, backing the book, etc. I figure it can’t hurt.
Let me be the voice of dissent to some extent here. Yes, this delay sucks, no two ways about it, but I think saying it’s the death knell of the book or anything like that is getting ahead of ourselves. Fans forgive and, hëll, expect lateness from their comics these days, for the most part. Trust me, I work my day job in comic retail. (And yet… not a sheep! 😉
Truthfully, we might get a few people who will say “Hey, has it been a while since there’s been a new Fallen Angel?” and we’ll tell them about the delay and they’ll be OK with it. Most, because they’re getting more than one comic especially if their tastes are diverse and good enough to be getting Fallen Angel, won’t notice because they’ll have other books to occupy their time, and they’ll joyously greet the new issue when it comes out.
In short… not ideal, definitely unfortunate, I don’t think it’s the book-killer that some of you guys seem to think it is. Let’s not get all self-fulfilling prophecy here.
I’m for renumbering only if DC will get behind it as a true relaunch, with advertising, a six-issue commitment and/or a second trade simultaneously. If they are willing to do this, then this could be exactly the break you’ve been looking for to goose the sales. Otherwise, it’s probably kind of hollow.
And for my ex-girlfriend/best friend/I don’t know what else… I’ll tell her to get the Supergirl trade and back issue dive for issues and make up her own mind on the Linda/Lee debate.
Sir,I read alot of your Cosmic stuff and I just feel that you and /or Roger Stern maybe the best at it. I’m writng to you as a really big Avengers fan. I said all that to ask you to take
these Avengers and produce a COSMIC AVENGERS book.
1.Photon 2.Warbird 3.Mantis 4.Jocasta 5.Sirsi
6.Wonderman 7.Starfox 8.Quasar 9.WarMachine(with Warwear) 10.Hercules 11.Darkhawk 12.MoonDragon
13.LivingLighting
Could you pitch this book to Marvel,I believe in your writing abilty thanks.
Well, on the one hand, I can see how re-numbering #19 as #1 Vol. 2 might help attract new readers, but on the other hand does that mean that you’d have adjust the story line to make it more accessable to any new readers who might pick it up? (IE spend a couple pages re-introducing Lee, Dolf, Bette Noir, etc…)
If you leave it as #19 new readers will assume it is their responibilty to hunt the back issues to fully understand what’s going on, but if you re-number it as #1, then it sorta becomes your responibility to make sure they know any relivant parts of the preceeding story line.
Either way, “Fallen Angel” has really been picking up steam over the course of the last few issues and I’d like to see it last byond #20 (or #2 as the case may be)
-=-=-=Russ
PS. The “Sach and Voilens” appearance got me thinking about other creator controled crossovers, any chance we’ll see Spawn or Youngblood meeting Lee any time soon? (Hee, hee hee. Just kidding)
New #1? Sure would get some additional attention.
But could that be arranged in time for Feb? I like the idea of timing it around the release of a second trade release. Maybe the biggest plus to a new #1 is increased access. Those who fear jumping into a character with issue #237 can feel like they’re getting in on the ground floor.
On the other hand, it’ll be seen as a “cheap” ploy to boost sales. Which, in this case, I don’t really mind, because it’s a quality book (the only comic I buy) and worth the extra effort.
I have to admit, before I started reading FA, it had been years since I’d paid any attention to the comic industry. To be honest, I’m fairly shocked, and disappointed, in what I see. Mostly over at Marvel, where it seems that titles that were just “re-launched” a few years ago are once again getting a new #1. Plus the whole Ultimate line. Seems that old adage about not learning from the mistakes of our past is true…or at least will be, once Ultimate X-Men meet Uncanny X-Men in summer of 2010.
Back in the day (when I trudged uphill to school…BOTH WAYS…and yes, it was ALWAYS snowing…) when I had a 25+ book a month habit, err, hobby, I had issues numbering in the 400s. Even Marvel then had long continuous print runs, Avengers, Captain America, Spider Man. All those are gone. DC seems to have maintained their flagships without too much change change to the books. Although the characters have understandably changed. I mean, Clark and Lois are still married, right? I think MJ …blew up? Or something?
Can ya tell that I’m a little out of the loop on some things?
Anyway, the point is, if DC supports a Volume 2, #1 deal, and agrees to like another 6-12 issues, I say do it, even if it means pushing V2 back to April or May. I’ve waited this long for the next New Frontier (hint hint) book, I can wait a few months for more Lee and Bete Noir.
btw, just kidding about Calhoun and crew…take your time. I’d much rather you put out a good product than 800+ pages of Robert Jordan drek, just to make a deadline..er, miss a deadline…oops, I’m digressing….
IMHO? Go with the renumber, but push for some seriously aggressive advertising. You’ve got enough awesome reviews from aint-it-cool-news and newsarama etc. for some great blurbs. “The Bìŧçh Is Back…Volume 2, Issue #1 of the critically acclaimed FALLEN ANGEL by David, Lopez and Blanco hits stores this March”…or something like that.
Here’s a thought…how much does a half-page or a full-page ad in a DC comic cost? Could serious readers contribute to a fund in time for an ad? I know I’d throw in a few bucks. I think it would be well-placed in top-selling Vertigo titles, or the higher-selling books i.e. Green Lantern: Rebirth or Superman/Batman (which has DEFINITELY seen its share of delays, and yet people keep buying it).
People: Peter is not in position to make demands of DC as to advertizing for FALLEN ANGEL. He wants to convince DC to publish more FALLEN ANGEL, not to alienate the “suits.”
Yes, Peter, I think FALLEN ANGEL should continue to a second volume. Picture this: A solicitation for a first issue with a cover by George Perez. I want FALLEN ANGEL to continue and I think that this will help.
I suppose it depends. Marvel seems to think it works.
So much so that they relaunched Avengers, relaunched it again, then let the numbering get confusing to all hëll, and are relaunching it yet AGAIN.
I think it’s a bad PR stunt. 🙂
“Sir,I read alot of your Cosmic stuff and I just feel that you and /or Roger Stern maybe the best at it. I’m writng to you as a really big Avengers fan. I said all that to ask you to take
these Avengers and produce a COSMIC AVENGERS book.”
I don’t want to derail this topic, so I’ll just answer this (and hope no one else chimes in) to say that, in my opinion, Marvel isn’t really looking for cosmic stuff right now…possibly because it’s a tough sell for movies, and possibly because it’s an even tougher sell to fans. Fans just don’t support such material in large enough numbers to keep it going.
PAD
hmmm…A #1 issue with cover by George Perez vs a #19 with cover by George Perez…
Well, I think I know which will sell better.
Now of course, it’ll drop back to regular numbers right after, but as long as the bean counters are expecting that, it should work fine.
PAD,
You have so many wonderful stories in you. Would it be feasible to self-publish at some point? You already have a fan following, so there are built in sales, and would the numbers be that much less than you would get at the big two? Collect the stories in graphic novels every so often and keep them in print at the bookstores near your prose, and there are more sales. Plus, all profit is yours! Just wondering….
If it’s for me, don’t go with the renumber, that doesn’t mean I won’t buy it if it goes with a new number one on the cover. I like the book, period, but so many series had been renumbered and this may work in the past years, but people change, and that strategy won’t work forever.
On the other hand, what was doing David L
Karen: Unfortunately, there are still a lot of readers that only buy from “the Big Two”. This is also true of many comic shops. Look at how POWERS sales have increased from the move to Marvel from Image.
Second, I suspect that it would be hard (not impossible) for self-published trades to get distributed in book stores.
Third, I rather Peter spend his time writing rather than deal with the administrative hassles of self publishing.
As long as it would not unduly take money out of your pocket, I think you should definitely renumber it as Volume 2, #1.
Even if DC didn’t promote it as such, there are always readers that are tempted to try a book they’ve heard good things about, and a new number one implies that it would be an easier starting point then issue # 19.
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is to go for Fallen Angel Vol. 2 #1. George Perez cover, special guest appearances by “old friends”, it should almost sell itself! Well…maybe…
Retailers will usually order #1’s more, and maybe you can get DC to include something extra in the book like character sketches. What if you work fast to get some of the more “hot” artists to do some pin-up’s? Just something to attract attention?
This does seem like a way to get over the hurdle of missing a couple of months.
This is a case where renumbering would not seem so arbitrary. It can only help. Sorry to use this, but it’s taking lemons (the delay) and making lemonade. Up until this point you’ve been taking on the challenge of selling this book rather aggressively, and, in my opinion, to sit back now and figure that things may fall into place between now and March would be a mistake. Renumbering, as a final push, is the only incentive left that the on-the-fence potential Fallen Angel reader would go for. Otherwise, the people buying Fallen Angel #19 in March are going to be the same people who bought #18, possibly even less, but almost assuredly not more. At this point, especially given this most recent wrinkle in production, a new #1 seems to be the only viable means to fight back. I don’t see what you’ve got to lose.
Go for the renumbering. It does legitimately boost sales. Given how anemic sales on this book got (if the reports on The Pulse are to be trused, and I think they are), this series could use the added exposure in the market. It would reward you, your artists, and DC for sticking with the book.
This could just be a pipe dream but what if….
March: Fallen Angel Trade 2, Issues #7 – 12
Early April: Fallen Angel Trade 3, Issues #13 – #18
Late April: Fallen Angel Vol. 2, #1
I do wonder how much ads in Wizard are. Do you think there are enough fans of FA to start a fund to buy an ad? Hmmmmm
I’m all in for the fan-bought ad. Can anyone get some price quotes?
Hey, savingangel.org couldn’t save an already-cancelled show, but it definitely brought attention to the show…and attention is what FA needs to survive (well, okay, that and sales, but it sounded good, didn’t it?).
No.No. No. No. No.
Pleeeease do NOT do another #1. I hate the “relaunches” Marvel has done. It is a cheap gimmick. People are really freaking sick of it. Captain America being the most blatant, ridiculous example.
Your book deserves better than to try the artificial boost of a cheap gimmick Peter.
Plus, as others have stated, if you DO do another #1, you will either have to change the direction of the book or spend time catching new readers up who may be curious enough to pick up a new #1 for $2.95 but not the trades.
I WOULd be willing to help buy an ad if those on this board are actually serious. That COULd have some impact.
But let the work stand on its own, Peter. Give it your best shot.
That’s all anyone can ask.
I think, yes, it’s obvious a #1 will be ordered in higher numbers. I personally have no problem with if it will help the book survive longer.
Well, here’s another vote for a Vol. 2 #1. Considering how badly DC mangled the initial launch of FALLEN ANGEL, renumbering a ‘second season’ at #1 should lure some retailers into ordering a little heavier…especially with the first two issues sporting George Perez covers.
KET
If the book is good enough, and Fallen Angel definitely is, fandom will wait. Just look at Astro City, Planetary and the Ultimates. If Fallen Angel is looking towards the non-superhero crowd then they/we are use to shipping delays and uneven schedules. So I don’t think a delay will hurt current readers of Fallen Angel, but it does dent the head of steam what was beginning to build up around the title. Perhaps DC should have filled in with reprints of earlier issues.
Peter I think it would be a good idea to reboot this series because such actions tend to work in generating sales. In regards to your work Captain Marvel comes to mind as his reboot kept the book going for an additional twenty five issues. Second most new fans are far more willing to pick up an issue that says 1 rather than 21 as no one wants to risk jumping into a book that is in the middle of a story arc. Third I think a reboot is a good idea because the smaller comic book retailers that don
First time posting here but I’ve been reading the site for awhile and am a big fan of FA. Personally I find the renumberings and such that have been a constant thing in the recent history of comics to be pretty silly (especially what happened with Avengers – relaunch at number 1, return to the old numbers for, what? 4 issues? end the series, start a new series at #1… – but I’d much rather see FA vol 2 #1 and continue for a few issues at least than have it end at #20.
The other recurring issue is the Mature Readers label. As I understand it there’s no chance of the book going to Vertigo (might they change their minds with a relaunch?). Compared to what’s gone on in other comics recently I’m not sure the action necessarily requires a MR label. For instance there was quite a drawn out torture of Stephanie Brown (aka Spoiler aka Robin) in the Batman Wargames run and over at Marvel in The Pulse Jessica Jones is pregnant yet got attacked by the Green Goblin. (In that case the baby ended up being ok and I don’t recall seeing blood, but the momentary horror was still there.)
Would a relaunch make it possible to divest the series of the MR label and do you think that would help sales or would it be too big a trade off from your freedom of storytelling?
As a person who’s always wondering just when to jump on a DC comic book so that I can’t buy the trades (when they eventually come out) to cover the previous issues but not double up on anything, I think renumbering sends out a clear and helpful signal. It lets buyers know that it’s a clear jumping on point and gives them some assurance that they aren’t going to be completely confused by coming in midway through a story arc.
If it’s possible, I’d say go for it.