Over on the Huffington Post, there’s been coverage of a Lesbian mother who–while making sure to have someone film the entire thing–had her eight year old son walk up to Michele Bachmann at a book signing and tell Bachmann he felt his gay mother “didn’t need fixing.” This, of course, put Bachmann on the spot, which was the point of the whole exercise.
If you watch the video, it is positively painful. This is not some aggressive, precocious lad who wants to make himself heard. The kid clearly doesn’t want to say his no doubt carefully rehearsed line. I don’t give a dámņ if he said it spontaneously to his mom two days earlier and she just wants him to repeat it. It is abundantly clear that he doesn’t want to go anywhere near Bachmann. I don’t blame him. The woman creeps me out and I’m 55. Nevertheless the child, so terrified that he can barely speak above a whisper, is forced to address Bachmann with this sentiment. Which, of course, results in the desired appalled look.
I hate to say it, because I think Bachmann’s a dangerous nut job, but I was also appalled. If the mother has a sentiment she wants Bachmann to hear, then freaking stand up and say it. Don’t send your child in to be your proxy or your prop in a Youtube video, especially when it’s clear to any viewer that the kid doesn’t want any part of this. If the child really had to be there, then fine. Say, “Would you care to explain to my son why you think I, his mother, need to be ‘fixed.’ Because he wants to know and I can’t explain it to him since I don’t understand either.” That, at least, doesn’t force your child to be pushed up right to the ear of the scary lady who, for all he knows, is going to become so angry that she’ll send her henchmen, Horace and Jasper, to kidnap him in the night, or perhaps just annihilate him right there with the laser beams from her eyes.
And yes, I get it, the outrage that gay parents must feel for a judgmental áššhølë like Bachmann. But you know what? If a renowned anti-Semite were doing a book signing, I wouldn’t force Caroline to ask him, “Why do you think my daddy deserves to die?” Just because you’re an outraged mother with a cause doesn’t mean you get to abrogate the first responsibility of a parent: putting your child before your own interests.
PAD
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Indeed.
This happened recently in New Hampshire, and I’m kicking myself because I can’t remember the candidate. Basically, the mother (and teacher) brought the kid to the candidate, gave him/her the question, and kept the discussion going with “ask him this” and “ask him that” — basically using the kid like a puppet. The candidate in question (I remember it was one I didn’t have much sympathy for — I wanna say Gingrich or Santorum or Romney) showed tremendous patience, when I would have said “lady, if you want to have a discussion with me, put the kid down and say what you have to say to my face.”
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Reason #5,482 why I’m not ever gonna stand for public office…
J.
Sigh… five more seconds, and I’d have found it. Rick Perry, Portsmouth, NH, back in August. The mother is actually on video saying “ask him about evolution.”
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http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/08/nh-mother-uses-child-as-a-prop-to-question-rick-perry-on-evolution/
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Dagnabit…
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J.
From what I’ve seen of your daughter, PAD, at several cons, she would never be so confrontational — but out of manners, not timidity. She strikes me as one forthright kid.
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J.
Right, left, or middle of the road, this is a gutless tactic by creepy parents. I feel like a shmuck since a gay friend of mine posted this on facebook and i “liked” it without bothering to watch it. Figured it must have been a precocious kid showing up an ignorant pol. Now I’ll have to slink back and put in my two cents which will no doubt start yet another endless comment war.
Well, y’know what, Bill? If your gay friend gives you grief about it or says you’re out of line, send ’em here, and I’ll be happy to set him straight…
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Hmmm. Yeah, I didn’t think that one through…
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PAD
LOL.
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He’ll probably just commiserate with you on having to put up with someone like me, as he has done since middle school.
Michele Bachman is the most disgraceful being on this planet. (doesn’t even deserve the word human). However, this mother is not much better.
Putting a child in that position.
I treat my dog better than that.
We so need our whole systems revised. The folks who are involved really have no clue and are so out of touch.
and this is on both sides of the aisle.
This is slightly off topic, but it reminds me of my desire to never vote for any candidate who prominently displays his or her family as a sign of wholesomeness or morality.
If somebody needs to defend their parents’ lesbian relationship, I’d much prefer this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q
I know it’s been making the internet rounds, but it’s 19-year old Zach Wahls testifying against an Iowa Constitutional amendment defining marriage as a “1 man and 1 woman.” Mostly, it’s about how his family is pretty much like anybody else’s. Eloquent, on point (at least in my opinion), and I think, genuine. Worth a watch.
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Yeah, saw the video a while ago. Seriously wanted to slap the stupid out of that kids mom.
One gets the feeling that would take up all your free time…
I suppose even dangerous nutjobs have to contend with cowardly opportunists…
Speaking as a gay male, I was appalled at this. I’ve always been uneasy around kids especially the under ten set,to the point I don’t like being around them. Although I don’t care for them, I don’t want to see them hurt or abused in any way & to me, that was abuse.
While not quite on topic, I work at a retail store and I’m continually amazed at the numerous parents who — during this busy shopping season with lots of shoppers rushing around with carts often filled with heavy objects — let the kids dangle on the side of their shopping cart, stand up in the narrow seat part of the cart, or even lie on the bottom of the shopping cart, with their arms or head poking out a foot or two off the ground. I honestly don’t know how I don’t spend more time cleaning kids’ blood off the floor of the store.
Letting a kid do something potentially dangerous may not be the same as forcing a kid to say what the parent wants them to say, but they both demonstrate that there are plenty of parents out there who either don’t think of or don’t care about the consequences of something on their kids.
I cheered when I first saw the video and posted in on my Facebook page but because I’m dense I didn’t really reflect on the context until a short time later. As a parent of a 9-year old girl, I did feel a bit guilty about my joy at the footage since yes the mom was obviously manipulating the situation, including her son. It’s not something I would ever do (but would certainly let my daughter go off on Bachmann if she was of the mind to do it herself).
It’s really no better than the Westboro Baptist Church who allow their tweens to hold placards that say “God Hates Fágš”…
It’s really no better than the Westboro Baptist Church who allow their tweens to hold placards that say “God Hates Fágš”…
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I’m not sure that this incident goes quite that far, as the kids from Westboro have seemed rather willing to participate. But it does come close to the brainwashing-type stuff we talked about in another recent thread.
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Either way, this mother is not helping The Cause.
Just saw the video on yt. The kid’s name is Elijah, and PAD is spot on
It reminds me of a news story, I think it happened in Russia. Some gay men got together, ambushed, and beat the crap out of some members of an anti-gay group who had previously tried to gay bash one of them.
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Some folks got disappointed that gay activists had lowered themselves to vendetta and vigilante justice.
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It’s understandable that people who are victimized will lash out and do áššhølë things themselves, including using their kids to make a point. The problem is that it plays right into the hands of social conservatives who will be eager to use it as “proof” that gays make bad parents or something.
I just watched the video, and I definitely agree that children should never forcibly be used as props to bolster any social or political position no matter how “righteous” the issue; it’s a piss-poor method to create the illusion that the children firmly hold those convictions, while in fact in the majority of instances the youths have no real in-depth understanding of what they’re supposedly supporting or opposing. And really, there’s already a wealth of video out there of Bachmann, Rick Perry, Rick “Google my last name” Santorum and others saying inane and ignorant things about homosexuality and same-sex issues, without provocation, so there’s no need to artificially create more embarrassing moments involving them.
I remember as a young lad being forced to say things in front of a large crowd that I didn’t understand or believe in. But enough about my Bar Mitzvah.
Ba-DUM-bum.
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Frighteningly enough, I still remember and can recite most of my Torah portion.
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PAD
It’s amazing the stuff that sticks with us from the erly years. I read THE DEAD ZONE in high school, and while I don’t remember the name of the bad guy, I remember that John Smith was in a coma for 55 months.
(Incidentally, the movie is very worth seeing for numerous reasons — including Martin Sheen playing the polar opposite of Josiah Bartlett, as a selfish, ruthless, evil presidential candidate.)
I wonder if the mom will schedule a news conference and have the terrified tyke have to go before the glare of the cameras to say it was all his idea. This kid will need therapy before its over, imagining Bachmann and Ed Schultz under his bed. And Anderson Cooper in the closet. With Bachmann’s husband.
I love how nobody can put this lesbian mother down without first making sure that they also slime Bachmann. So much insecurity here.
Well, I’ll say it. This mother does need fixing and her actions are evidence of that.
That is because what Bahmann says about Gay people is loathsome and deserves to be confronted. It’s just that this mother should have done the confronting herself and not had her child do it.
It’s that many agree with the sentiment, just have a problem with how it was delivered.
And what precisely has Bachmann said about homosexuality?
As far as I know, she’s not said anything. She pretty much refuses to answer questions on it. Her husband has some extreme views, and the assumption is that she shares them.
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She did sign a defense of marriage pledge, and she did say some stuff 7 years ago that was pretty hateful and ignorant, but she’s been pretty silent during the campaign, which would lead folks to believe she hasn’t changed her stance and that she is inline with her husbands beliefs.
Really, Jerry? She hasn’t said anything?
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“If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
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“You have a teacher talking about his gayness. (The elementary school student) goes home then and says “Mom! What’s gayness? We had a teacher talking about this today.” The mother says “Well, that’s when a man likes other men, and they don’t like girls.” The boy’s eight. He’s thinking, “Hmm. I don’t like girls. I like boys. Maybe I’m gay.” And you think, “Oh, that’s, that’s way out there. The kid isn’t gonna think that.” Are you kidding? That happens all the time. You don’t think that this is intentional, the message that’s being given to these kids? That’s child abuse.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
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“Don’t misunderstand. I am not here bashing people who are homosexuals, who are lesbians, who are bisexual, who are transgender. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life and sexual identity disorders.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, on homosexuality as a mental disorder, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
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“This is a very serious matter, because it is our children who are the prize for this community, they are specifically targeting our children.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, on the gay community and same-sex marriage, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 20, 2004.
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“The sex curriculum will be essentially by taught by the local gay community.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, if her same-sex marriage ban amendment does not pass in 2004, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 20, 2004.
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“And what a bizarre time we’re in, Jan, when a judge will say to little children that you can’t say the pledge of allegiance, but you must learn that homosexuality is normal and you should try it.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 6, 2004.
So far, I haven’t seen any comments attributed to her that I would call “hateful.” It’s clear she doesn’t agree that homosexuality is healthy… but her comments do seem to me to be based more upon compassion than hatred.
Be kind. Michele is probably afraid Marcus will run away with Rick Perry or something if gay marriage gets more traction.
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“It’s a very sad life. It’s part of Satan, I think, to say that this is ‘gay.’ It’s anything but ‘gay.’ It leads to the personal enslavement of individuals. Because if you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair, and personal enslavement. And that’s why this is so dangerous. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life, and sexual identity disorders.”
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“If you’re involved in the Christian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.”
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“Don’t misunderstand. I am not here bashing people who are Catholic. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of this dysfunction in their life and this disorder.”
I always found the use of the word “lifestyle” profoundly ironic in such context.
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You can’t really choose your sexual orientation, but you can choose your religion.
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Moreover, a religion is more likely to guide (or dictate) how you should live your life.
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It’s religions that are “lifestyles”. Sexual orientations are either biologically mandated, or the result of a complex mix of biological and psychological factors.
Ok, you got me, I only said “she did say some stuff 7 years ago that was pretty hateful and ignorant” which you then quoted, so I guess I was… what, right?
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My point was, as a candidate, she hasn’t really said anything, so all we have to go on is what she said in 2004, and we have to assume that those are still her beliefs.
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Do you actually have an arguement to my post, or do you just like sounding like you do?
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My post was a response to your first paragraph.
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“As far as I know, she’s not said anything. She pretty much refuses to answer questions on it. Her husband has some extreme views, and the assumption is that she shares them.”
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The question that you were responding to wasn’t asking what she’s said since running for POTUS in the debates. It didn’t have a time limit on it. Then, after saying that she has not said anything, you throw in as an afterthought that she said “some stuff 7 years ago that was pretty hateful and ignorant.” Since you basically staked out both sides of the answer, I responded to the side that looked like your more definitive statement on the matter.
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Not my fault that you gave two conflicting answers to the same question in one short answer and thus gave everyone here the opportunity to pick which one they would respond to.
I also expected people to read more than one or two sentences before they started foaming spittle at the screen and run off to google to prove me wrong.
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Only seems to have confused one person so far though.
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No confusion at all. I’ve just seen a lot of people on both sides of the isle (especially the last few years) make stupid statements like –
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“As far as I know, she’s not said anything.”
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– and then follow that up with a statement about how, yeah, maybe they said something not long ago in their public history, but then play it down a bit and make out as if what was said was maybe bad, but not really that big of a deal.
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You answered one question with two conflicting answers. I, again, simply responded to the first answer you gave and quoted the things she had said in her past.
So… where’s the hatred on Bachmann’s part?
This is in response to Darin’s last comment in which he asked what part of Bachmeann’s statements were “ignorant”:
One solid example of her ignorance is the fact that there is no scientifically recognized disorder known as a “Sexual Identity Disorder”. Gender Identity Disorder is the closest recognized diagnosis, and even that is in the middle of academic scrutiny and will most likely be renamed “Gender Incongruence” with the release of the DSM-V now that the condition has been studied and explored more throughly.
In addition, scientists, psychologists, psychiatrist (etc.) don’t recognize homosexuality as a dysfunction. Professionally, at least.
Not insecutrity. What the woman did is ultimately trvial in the face of Bachmann and her horrendous views and politics and what it means for the future of America.
As for her views on homosexuality, at the very least her “compassion” is so ignorant as to be void of any good. But most likely she’s just a typical bigot.
Absolutely true. It’s just as important to point out that the sentiment expressed by the child is well-founded; it’s just that pushing him to voice it was out of line.
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PAD
What makes Bachmann’s views “horrendous” and “ignorant?”
This is why I like reading your stuff, Mr. David. You put common sense and human decency first, in your fiction and your essays and your blog posts alike.
There is a comment on the YouTube video apparently from a witness saying that it appeared that the boy wanted to address Senator Bachmann and merely suffered some stage fright when he actually began.
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I doubt it. And it wouldn’t matter anyhow. You don’t use kids like that. They’re not props to stick out there so that you can have your side look more sympathetic or to make the other side look uncomfortable/bad.
Exactly right Jerry.
That’s kind of the point: he had stage fright because it was staged. It was, “Let’s take a video camera to video my child confronting Michele Bachmann.” The thing is, this wasn’t the school play. The moment the kid clearly didn’t want to speak to the scary lady with the Helter Skelter eyes, that should have been that. Again: if she had something to say to Bachmann, she should’ve said it herself, not use her child as her cats paw.
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PAD
I just had an image of Caroline going up to Todd McFarlane and saying “you should pay Uncle Neil a million jillion dollars.”
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And PAD, horrified, scooping her up and running away.
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J.
If that were actually Caroline’s idea, I’d pay good money to see that happen. Not a million jillion dollars, mind you, but I’d love it.
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Be right up there with my daughter Katherine walking up to Bill Mulligan and saying, “did you really tell my parents to name me Mothra?”
Wow, some scars never heal.
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What should really make her nervous is that somewhere in the dark reptile part of your brain you considered it.
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What really scares me is that Katherine is what, a college senior by now?
Sorry for the delay; Verizon incompetence led to a lengthy offline period.
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And no scars, really; I was just trying to come up with something comparable for Katherine to say, and it was the first thing that came to mind.
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For the record, we never considered it. (Well, I didn’t; I can’t speak for the dark recesses of Lisa’s mind.) We did, however, tell our respective parents that we’d decided on Mothra. One of them actually believed us, the poor deluded fellow.
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And also for the record, Katherine is 7. As I said on the first day of class when I showed pictures of her, “chronologically, she’s 7; physically, she’s closer to 9; emotionally, she’s about 14. What this means to the layman is that I’M DOOMED.”
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In every class, same reaction: chuckles from a handful of boys, and knowing laughter from every single girl saying, “You have utterly no idea.”
I’m reminded of Sarah Palin doing her bus tour and her daughter chastising the media who were covering for “ruining our vacation”. If you’re looking to take the kids on a nice, quiet vacation you don’t do it by travelling around on a bus with your name, picture and other info posted on the side and scheduling press conferences every day.
What this mother did was stupid but where was the outrage on the right when Palin did the same thing?
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KKozoriz, get with the program. Palin can only be a victim of the evil, filthy, Left leaning MSM and any use of her kids or family as props is just a show of traditional values and the strength of her character. And, of course, it’s just unseemly of you or the MSM to question her motives while she’s riding around in a campaign bus and making stops where Republican debates or primaries are taking place or doing sit downs on location to discuss things with Fox News as a vacation.
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Please… Didn’t you get the memo years ago now?
Any outrage directed toward Palin and her stunts is routinely dismissed as being either the “lame stream media” or those gosh-darned lefty liberals trying to smother her message.
I wonder if people are just so used to hypocrisy in right-wing politicians that they don’t even raise an eyebrow anymore when they use their kids for political gain while crying that the kids must be protected; or talk about family values while banging every married woman available or being closeted gay.
THIS.
People have also just given up. They vote for someone else, they sometimes win, and NOTHING CHANGES.
People see how broken the system is but we haven’t gotten fed up enough with it to do anything about it. And at this point the only way things will actually change is armed rebellion, the system is just too broken.
The politicians have two, polar opposite camps to help keep everyone else distracted and fighting with each other so we don’t get together and throw all the bums out and re-create America…
as a gay man, i too was appalled.
the poor boy looked terrified.
i couldn’t agree with you more, and just wish i was as articulate as you Peter.
The more morally outraged I am, the more articulate I is.
PAD
^ Heh. Gold!
“or perhaps just annihilate him right there with the laser beams from her eyes.”
Heh. I’d be more worried about her spewing Corn Dog of Death at any naysayers.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/macro/another-michele-bachmann-photo-outrage-goes-viral
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I only glanced at some of the comments here, but I thought I’d throw in my two bits. I was raised to believe as Bachmann does about homosexuality, and that banning gay rights was an act of kindness, piety, and mercy.
I have come to see, though, that this sort of generosity smacks a great deal of the old “White Man’s Burden,” and that the homosexual savages might be doing just fine on their own, thanks.
Interestingly, people who defend “scripture” aren’t usually defending the text itself. They are defending their church’s definition of the text, or worse, using the text to solidify and consecrate a pre-existing prejudice.
No one actually lives according to “the Bible,” or even tries to. (See A.J. Jacobs’ “The Year of Living Biblically” for a more thorough account of what happens when you try.) People live according to the laws put down by their church.
I’m inclined to agree with you, especially when you put it in terms of asking a child to literally defend the parent. I was charmed when the little boy next door read about Nazis and promised that he would have fought them all to save me, but I wouldn’t ask him to go up to David Duke for me.
Although this was posted on youtube.
“I took the video. We were standing in line, and his mom was ready to leave because we didn’t know what WE were going to say. When we turned to leave, Elijah grabbed her coat and pulled her back, telling her to stay cause he wanted to tell Michele something. If anything, it was the other way around. He just got stage fright—and his mom wasn’t going to let him back down, because he was going to regret it.”
So it’s possibly he wanted to back out and his mother just wanted him to follow through, but i still agree with you taking the kid was just a bad idea as Michele came off pretty “burn” but actually handled herself quite well. What were the parents expecting her to do? Have a shrieking tantrum at the kid. scaring him. Having her insult him and his mother on camera?
I’m just glad the kid is okay.